Halliburton moving to Dubai

H

huntindude

Guest
Is it just a coincidence that since the dems took congress and the no bid contracts are drying up Halliburton is moving it's HQ to Dubai? maybe it's just because of the cheap taxes and other perks they'll get but it looks bad. you'ld think after the billions they've hosed the American tax payers out of with underhanded and even illegal dealings they could at least stay here and put some of it back into our economy.
 
Unbelievable! I'm sure their is a logical explanation for this(Sarcasm). I'm still shocked Congress isn't investigating the no bid contracts which were a fleecing of America at it's finest. I have friends that were shipped to Iraq as support units that found the jobs they thought they were to do already taken by Haliburton employees while they set around for months. My one hope is they take ##### with them to Dubai.
 
The#### was supposed to be Richard Cheney but the filter found the shorting of his name objectionable as I find Cheney objectionable.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-11-07 AT 06:47PM (MST)[p]

What does a corporation exist for?

In addition who "owns" Halliburton and where do the VAST majority of owners reside?

What possible difference can it make to anyone where Halliburton has it's corporate HQ? If the tax structure in another country is more efficient then it is corporate malfeasance to not maximize share holder return. Maybe the tax structure here should be changed so that other countries don't continue have corporations moving there.

In addition no bid contracts are still being let almost and Halliburton and it's Subsidaries are still getting the lions share of these deals. Perhaps it is that only Halliburton has the expertise to do what the government is asking for.

The Vice President has been out of Halliburton since the 2000 election.

I also think it is only the beginning of corporations moving off shore to avoid what the dems have planned for them. I would expect see many oil companies also move to more business friendly countries that don't consider making money evil.

Find a real freaking issue to worry about.

Nemont
 
Boy am I surprised some of you have that attitude. Halliburton is the biggest rip off hose master this country has ever seen and you defend them like they're your mother, a true Bush bunny. there are ways to keep jobs and taxes in this country and if the dems don't do something about it we're in bigger trouble than we already are.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-11-07 AT 08:52PM (MST)[p]Huntindude,

What could the dems possible do about moving corporate HQ off shore? Do you even understand why a corporation would want to move to a more business friendly country?

It is not as if Halliburton is the first nor will it be the last to leave the U.S. mainland to more friendly countries who believe business isn't evil.

Multi National corporations have ability to move around the world searching for the best deal they can get. Corporations exist soley to maximize the return on investments for it's shareholders period. You can talk all you want about idiotic issue but that is why they exist. Unless the Dems are going repeal the laws of economics then there is nothing that they can really do.

Cancel contracts with Halliburton is about the extent of what they can actually do.

Before you put the "Bush Bunny" label on me you may want to do some reading about corporations and what they do. EVERY American who has a retirement plan held in any number of accounts owns a part of the "evil" corporations.

If Halliburton have done illegal things then Waxman will put them on the stand and get to the bottom off it but you better understand there is not a flipping thing Congress can do to a multi national corporations that wishes to move it's HQ.

I do care if they acted illegaly and they should be held accountable for that, I do not care if the move their operation offshore.

In addition if the Dems attempt to "fix" the "problem" it will only lead to more corporate offices leaving the U.S. mainland.

I really could care less what you think of me and my attitude.

Nemont
 
NOW! NOW! Nemont, you are playing unfair with Huntindude. You are not allowed to use cold hard facts and the truth to combat Huntindude's anti Bush campaign. You should resort to half-truths, half-lies, GOP poor me attitudes. This is so he can come back with a statement that may sound logical and not the hate filled anti-Bush, anti-GOP, repertory that we expect from his kind.
You have not played fair,but you said it like a standup type of guy that a few people on here should learn to listen too. I do not plan to hold my breath, there is no reaching them by stating things that are truthful, logical and common sense.
But you forgot to mention something, which President signed a treaty that resulted in numerous corporations to move plants south of the border, along with the jobs. It was not Bush. I wonder if he knows the answer and will have wavels enough to answer it.

RELH
 
I never said what Halliburton is doing is illegal or should be. what I'm saying is there needs to be rewards for keeping business in the USA and teriffs and other taxes like our competitors in the world ecomomy use if you want to do business from the outside. RELH, as a farmer I'm well aware of the fact Clinton signed NAFTA but in true Bush bunny form you left out the part that says Bush Sr. had the deal so far along that Clinton had little choice when he took office. do any of you far right yahoos ever think about what's best for your country instead of the big business and the republican party? I'm well off enough I don't need a job or much else anymore but if bothers me to see everything I pick up made in China, Taiwan, India or Mexico knowing those used to be American jobs and many American's are struggling . even blue chip all American companies like Ford and GM are in big trouble and now crooks like Halliburton are ripping us off and then leaving the country knowing we'll keep the cash flowing their way ( maybe not now that the dems have a say ). if you don't see a problem with this you aren't the flag waving Captian America hero's you think you are.
 
Hey Dude, whats up brother! Hey what are the extradition laws in Dubai? Just supposing a certain ex-ceo should returns to the fold and decided to reside there?

Haliburton? Crooks? You got it all wrong, they are the pinnacle of the capitalistism and the American Way. So what if they defrauded the government for billions of dollars, after all they got paid didn't they. These charges of trying to link the V.P. to no-bid contracts, just because he's the ex-ceo, owns millions of shares in stock and receives $200,000.00 a year from them for the last 6 years is simply wreckless.

Am I supposed to lose sleep over the fact that Halliburton's profiteering has placed our soldiers in danger, delayed the reconstruction effort, and pro-longed the war...come on. Happy shareholders my friend, just look at their stock..good times, good times indeed.

Instead of being a party pooper come in and join the boardroom party, make sure to wipe the blood and oil off those Armani's before you come in, we wouldn't want to mess up the solid gold flooring. You know what they say, "What happens in Dubai, stays in Dubai." It's Dubai Baby!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-11-07 AT 11:46PM (MST)[p]Those tomatoe leaves are rotting your brain FTW. Dude is just slow and I'll bet his poor grampa is spinning in the grave over those land sales.

JB
 
Huntidude,

Why is that everything that you pick up is made elsewhere? Who is to blame for jobs moving offshore? I will give you a hint it isn't politicians from either side of the aisle.

I don't care who was responsible for NAFTA, GATT or any of the other agreements. Jobs were going to move offshore regardless because of simple economics.

There is nothing that congress can do that will effectively keep business here. By trying to fix it they will only make it worse.

FTW,

Do you indisputable proof that Halliburton's CEO committed a felony? You may wish to check on the laws of Dubai and see how they treat felons. I don't think anyone would trade our system of justice for theirs.

I find it funny that you guys that hate anything regardin the Bush administration are just as much parrots of the talking points of the Dems.

I wasn't defending Bush or anyone else but if you want to make it that they so be it. Want to bet that more Corporate HQ's will move offshore if the Dems attempt to fix it?

Nemont
 
So we should sit on our thumbs and watch this go on until all our jobs and money are somewhere else? just what will our ecomomy run on when that's done? other countries don't allow such practices we do, we are in a world economy there's no getting around that but if we don't level the playing field we're sunk. some of you are dense enough until it effects you directly you won't care. in the ag business it's been effecting us for years so I know what I'm talking about, the rest of the economy is starting to feel it and it will only get worse if we ignore it.

D13er you're right I doubt my grandfather would be like me selling off the land but at the prices you Californian's are paying he'd kick me if I didn't. I figured once I got enough money I'd be a good republican and not give a crap about anyone other than myself, I guess I just don't have enough money yet. I still have quite a bit of land so maybe I'll see things your way one of these days.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-12-07 AT 08:40AM (MST)[p]


Huntidude,

Who demands cheap products? When you walk through a Wal-Mart in any part of the country and the shoppers are there filling their carts with cheap foreign made goods whose fault is it?

I have lived in Europe many years, they have companies moving their production all the time. It is untrue that other countries do not allow movement of jobs offshore. China is not making goods just for the U.S. market.

There is a problem and it is that we, as a country, are addicted to cheap foreign goods. Tell me how congress is going to put an end to that demand?

There is no politician in the world that can change the laws of economics. Watch what happens to Hugo Chavez once he screws up his economy enough. There is will be a huge collapse and then he will be hanging upside down from a tree.

Free trade is the lifeblood of a modern economy, economic distruction is the hall mark of capitalism. That is what makes it works. Like it or not American labor has priced itself out of the world market for it's good and therefore jobs went to where labor was cheaper.

I don't know where you get that people don't care about their fellow man and that Republicans are selfish. You need to shut off Air America and do some reading.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/204/story_20419_1.html

Nemont
 
You're saying nothing can be done, I'm saying something must be done. at least we argee there is a problem, that's a start. I like cheap stuff I won't deny it, but if we stay on the path we're on China will have a higher standard of living than we do.
 
What can you do to stop moving jobs offshore? If you like cheap stuff then you are part of the problem, so am I. How do you tell labor to take less in wages or work more hours with reduced numbers or forego benefits.

Why do you think moving jobs offshore in and of itself is bad for our economy?

There is alot of econmic data that shows the U.S. economy is expanding because of more free trade.

I understand the Agriculture issue as well as anyone. We run a cow calf operation in Northern Montana, 20 miles from the border. What do you think happended when the border closed due to the BSE issue? Yeah the Canadians could send their cattle south but also we lost the single larget buyer of our calves.

Free trade is the life blood of modern economies and if you restrict it you have HUGE hidden costs that are always paid by the consumers. Look at any product that has government "protection" behind it, it always costs more and breeds inefficiency into the market.

Jobs have been going offshore since the 1990's why hasn't the U.S. economy collapsed? .................................... Because our economy is dynamic and free trade has actually help to add jobs.
http://news.com.com/2030-1014-5096283.html

Now is there economic dislocation associated with these changes absolutely but nobody owes anybody a standard of living. I know that Dems think they can manufacture the U.S. standard of living but the cannot.

There are much bigger problems facing our economy than moving jobs or corporate HQ offshore. Guess what your democractic controlled congress will not lift a finger to address them. Neither would a Republican Congress.

Nemont
 
Nemont, your grasp of the facts are refreshing.

Lets try this. I am not a great proponent of contracts, contracting, outsourcing, whatever. However I am a realist enough to know that without their involvement in large scale crisis, wars, (insert calamity here), our troops, like in Iraq, would be stretched extremely thin. We would have more troops, probably up to 3 times as many, in harms way, exacerbating the democrats and the Hate-America-First crowd.

Haliburton, a world-wide conglomeration involved in just about every type of industry under the sun, was in fact, the only entity available to be the overall contractor to oversee the mechanizations of nearly every type of support our troops would need in Iraq and elsewhere. How is HB putting our troops in harms way?

Many of these huge companies hire high-level government types (i.e. Cheney was a high-level gov. type in a previous admin.)
I'm sure a little research would net you a surprising revelation that many White House administrators of every stripe sit on the board of directors of some pretty lofty fortune 500 companies. Get over it. The fact that Cheney worked for Haliburton was common knowledge before he was tabbed for VP. What, some of you don't think that the GW admin. didn't know there would be an outcry from the lefties that Cheneys former company was getting the contracts for Iraq? The facts are this. Haliburton was the best option at the time to administer needed support and reconstruction in Iraq.

Riddle me this: You build a commercial building. Does the general contractor that you hire oversee all the other little subcontractors? Of course they do. They are hired because of their supposed expertise on all phases of work. Now, Bush-hating aside, think more globally. Now do you see what Nemont is saying? Probably but won't admit it.

Sometimes the estrogen levels from the left cause unsubstantiated hysteria and emotional highs/lows. Rational thought is a far off secondary consideration for some, I know.
 
Oh, and BTW. Halliburton isn't "moving" to Dubai, merely opening what they call the "Eastern part of their operations." In other words, the main office will still be in Houston. They have major offices in Asia, Indonesia, Africa and So. America. To wit, they have operations in 120 or so countries. Gawd!! Cheney is the most powerful human being on earth!!!
 
Other countries place HIGH teriffs on imports but we put little or nothing on our imports. we can't even label some imports because it's "unfair". the main crutch of our economy these days is foriegn investors and foriegn imports. how is selling out our country and American jobs good in the long run? you guys are oh so smart and the government and big business are looking out for us so don't worry you say, you aren't pro America you're just pro Bush, they aren't one and the same. I guess I shouldn't worry I'm set but I just don't see how you guys can watch this and not care, there's an old saying " when you're out of work it's a recession, when I'm out of work it's a depression " someday you might think it's a depression.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-12-07 AT 11:55AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-12-07 AT 11:40?AM (MST)

Huntindude,
Who pays the price for high tariffs on imports? Which countries with growing populations and growing economies are placing high tarriffs on goods.

What does supporting free trade have to do with GWB? You really need to shut down the your current sources of information and seek out some real information.

You keep saying the Dems in Congress are going to have to fix this. How are they going to fix this? The answer is that they cannot fix what isn't broken. In addition there will be no will in congress, dem or republican, to staunch the flow of trade and moving jobs offshore.

I am as Pro American as anybody else. I have volunteered to serve my country, I have worked hard to provide for family, I have paid taxes to the government, I have bought a house, a little land and am living the American dream. I also have lived oversees and have seen other countries and people up close and it person. There is no other country on earth like the U.S. What have you done to serve anything then yourself? No military service, no peace corps, nothing other then being a consumer of cheap goods? No wonder you don't understand economics.

I think you may want to check out the econmic "paradise" that Hugo Chavez is creating down in Venezuela. The socialist system seems to be what you are looking for. That is truly an Un American system.

You have yet to answer one question or provide a single fact in this arguement. Your money hasn't increased your literacy.


Nemont
 
What is a fact to you? jobs and companies are leaving our country at an alarming rate and all you can say is " what are you going to do?" I'm not sure what we should do but we should do something. we're trading factory and procuction jobs for service and retail jobs, sooner or later that's going to catch up to us. back to your hero's at Halliburton now, it's being reported that one major reason for the move is Halliburton wants in on business in Iran and US companies are banned from dealing with them. wave that flag now and tell us what's good about it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-12-07 AT 08:47PM (MST)[p]I have not heroes at Halliburton.

what facts have you attempted to present? You have not answered a single question. You have not attempted to prove your point with anything other then the talking points of guys like Byron Dorgen (D)ND. He is the on who said that Halliburton is moving so they can work with Iran. You cannot find one Halliburton representative that has said that. You are as big of a Kool-Aid drinker as any Bush supporter is. You don't have to lie.

I am assigning some home work for you so you can understand you don't have a clue about economics. Outsourcing make companies more efficient and creates more jobs here. I challenge you find a single creditable economist that views offshore movement of jobs and tariffs as bad for the economy.


http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/11/bad_economic_po.html

http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?J...1a&page=NewsArticle&id=9889&news_iv_ctrl=1085
 
Maybe he should contact his friends, Al Gore or John Kerry, they would be able to give him the "straight scoop" in order for him to give you a logical, common sense answer to your question.
Yea! and I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell him also. His purchase of that bridge should wise him up about the economy and how to do good business.

RELH
 
OK American jobs going over sea's is the best thing since sliced bread , why not? working's no fun any way huh? this is a waste of time there is no way to prove anything until it happens, nothing good will come of it and time will show it.

Back to Halliburton, Waxman now says he's going to look into the move and what effects it will have on national security. if no more no bid contracts will be issued to a Arab based company doing business with Iran wouldn't you call that doing something? you say there's nothing we can do, maybe it's because we haven't tried. if Halliburton want's to move that's their choice but if it's going to cost them they may think twice, I suppose that's mean now isn't it.
 
He's a piece of #####....

45f62deb05749d6d.jpg
 
Hey I agree he's a dork. but if he puts the screws to some crooks I'll overlook it.
 
What is ##### I mean I could figure it out if it was #### or ####### #### but ##### I don't get it. It can't be plural because that doesn't make sense. Even if it could be #######, although I don't think you can be just a piece of that. I think you just are one or have one. Anyways...

It's funny that when Dubai wanted to buy our ports many posters here freaked out. Fox and friends ran daily stories for a week that Dubai was a known hot-spot for the funding of terrorism. We are okay with China owning our ports, but damn those fellas from Dubai. Every talking head on T.V. blah blah blahing about blocking the deal or how it was the fox watching the hen house.

Hdude, don't you find it strange that the highly vocal voices that have cried foul over illegal immigration and selling the ports to "them" are the same ones telling us how Halliburton relocating to Dubai is cool. Looks like corp. cut and run to me.

Then the Carlisle Group ended up buying them and the story went away. But the same group that wanted to buy it in Dubai, are investors in the Carlisle Group.

Dubai is also known as the second residence of such wonderfully innocent people like Michael Jackson.

It is simply hilarious that the most corrupt U.S. based war-profiteering corporation will be moving to Dubai. I loved how the press release made sure to include the CEO offices would be relocated there. By the way they were nice enough to remain a U.S. based corp. for now. See how far the FBI gets on Dubai soil to sieze records.

So Dubai has ties to Al Queda terrorists that struck us in 9/11. We went to war shortly after in Iraq. Our V.P. is the ex-ceo
Halliburton. Halliburton is awarded no-bid contracts and defrauds our government in a time of war. And now they are moving to Dubai.

Those boys might have just tipped us off as to if we are going into Iran. American corps. can't bid on work in Iran. I guess they weren't sure about the senate races either. 3 months later it's time to put our offices in a country with ties to the 9/11 terrorists.

Hey Nemont, did you know Dubai has NO EXTRADITION of people or paperwork. That's weird isn't Nemont? Michael Jackson and Halliburton are as smart as Howard K. Stern.

BTW, I applaud how you've actually played out an old GOP spin trick. Take Hdude post, expand away from the post, and argue the virtues of NAFTA an entirly different subject. Sorry Hdude but he got you good, see how he got you on the defensive over NAFTA. Your silly Nemont, but you're good. Make sure to look up how well NAFTA has panned out in Mexico and other nations. But you see....that's a different subject.

I read your impressive Econonics background Nemont so perhaps you can explain how the devalued yuan has created our current mexican illegal immigration problem. Remember I'm pretty dumb so use little words I can understand. Thanks Nemont

Gentlemen, I believe Halliburton Just Flipped us Off...twice!!!

Nemont=Halliburton=Defauding US Govt.=New Senate=Dubai=GOOD
 
Nemont has dude on the rocks. Finish him off!

Haliburton is owned by shareholders. Many of them get rich off of the shares increasing in value. Thousands of school teachers and government workers own shares of Haliburton in their retirement packages. So thousands of Americans get rich when Haliburton moves off shore. NeMont is still correct and Dude, as usual, has nothing factual to present except his Dem like namecalling of "Bush Bunny."


"One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
 
Do higher taxes cause companies to try to do business elsewhere? Yes.

Do the Democrats raise taxes? Yes.

Did Bush struggle to create jobs in the beginning of his administration? Yes.

Were taxes at an all time high at the beginning of his administration? Yes.

Why did thousands of companies leave the US? Higher cost of doing business.

Why does a company exist? To make profits!

Does raising taxes and minimum wage make the US less competive? Yes.

Which party raises taxes and minimum wages? Democrats.

So which party is responsible for getting rid of jobs by pushing companies overseas?


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

I love deductive logic.

"One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-07 AT 09:05AM (MST)[p]FTW,
Find a quote from me saying that the Dubai ports deal was bad. I will give you a hint you won't find one. I thought the whole thing was a tempest in a tea pot. How can I take the war on terror serious if our government won't even secure the southern border? Why would it bother me that a company owned by Dubai but employed Americans operated our ports?

You really need a reading comprehension class. I have said repeatedly that IF Halliburton has committed any crimes hold their feet to the fire. Do you really believe that the CEO of Halliburton is making the move to avoid having to answer question before Waxman's committee? Talk about conspiracy theories. FYI Halliburton will remain incorporated in the U.S. do you think that we wouldn't have jurisdiction.

I may have used an old "Republican" trick but Hdude and you have used the oldest "Democrat" trick, viewing all Corporate decisions as evil and that you are for the poor and working class people.

I don't know what this means:
"Nemont=Halliburton=Defauding US Govt.=New Senate=Dubai=GOOD"

I thought the new senate is controlled by the Democrats? Did you see the results of the last election?

The Chinese manipulation of their currency is actually going to come back and bite them if the wish to be a world player. It has made the illegal immigration problem worse because the Chinese have even put Mexicans out of business, Chinese labor is more efficient and productive then Mexican labor. Chinese goods are cheaper because of the below market value of the Yuan. Who demands those cheap goods first produced in Mexico and now being made in China? Who employs the illegal labor coming from Mexico? The American people demand cheap goods and labor.

Jobs leaving the U.S. is going to continue, what do you think is going to happen to the people who have their jobs move offshore? Do you think they will sit on their hands and cry poor me? Or will the majority of them seek new opportunities to either start a business, begin a new career or pursue other opportunities? Why if jobs have been moving offshore for now over a decade has the economy collapsed? With continued immigration into the U.S. and a growing economy that has weathered the 9/11 attacks why is moving less skilled jobs offshore and replacing them higher skilled jobs bad?

I know you won't answer any questions go ahead with the name calling.

Nemont
 
Aspen you're as dense as usual. I doubt many American's are going to get rich off Haliburton moving to Dubia, I know it's public traded company but what % of shares are owned by Americans? so your theory is a company who rips off Americans and is in part owned by Americans should cut and run with profits, then position them selves to do business in Iran our enemy according to you, do you ever think things all the way through? the dems will have to raise taxes as anyone else would to service the debt you " conservatives " have run up in the last 7 years. if the dems ran business and jobs out of the country why has most of it happened while Bush has been in office? I'm not saying the selling off of America and lost jobs to 3rd world countries is all Bush's fault but to blame it on the dems or say who cares is truly ignorant.
 
huntindude,
You are using that old Democratic trick of changing the subject. I don't remember supporting the out of control spending that the Republican congress and president have done in the past 7 years.

I don't know why it is so hard for you to understand. I don't love Bush and everything he has done. I also don't hate him and think he is and idiot. Why is that so hard to figure out?

The topic was Halliburton moving to Dubai. I say it is not a big deal and you and FTW say it is. What fundmentally changes if Halliburtons mail goes to Dubai or to Houston, especially when they will remain incorporated in the U.S.?

If they lose their no bid contract in Iraq because of this move wouldn't that hurt their bottom line? You cannot find any proof that the reason is that they want to work with Iran.

You also state Iran is our enemy, would you support an attack on them if they are proven to have killed American troops?

Nemont
 
Well, if dude and FTW are so against Halliburton "opening" an office in Dubai and then relocating there CEO there because that is the center of their main business (energy development), then perhaps they should shun buying anything from Walmart, Home Depot, Office Max, ad nauseaum. Don't shop there, guys. Yup. Overseas ventures. Sorry.

How much money does NIKE, Reebok and their ilk make per year? billions? They do because they moved their manufacturing bases over to China or Taiwan or some other 3rd world hell hole. You guys don't wear those shoes I hope. Why that would be, I don't know, hypocrisy maybe? Dell computers moved its tech support to India, as do others of their kind.

Look at all the manufacturing and businesses that have shunned California as their base of operations. They are moving to more tax friendly areas of the country.

Nemont seems to be trying to explain this stuff, and you Bush-haters get your socialist panties in a wad about Halliburton, when your very existances rely on the crap you get from other overseas ventures. But thats ok, because Cheney's name isn't attached to all of the others. You call your positions justifiable, when it reeks of hypocrisy.
 
You want me to prove business leaving the US is bad, why don't you prove it's good? I didn't say it should be illegal I said it's not good. if you think Halliburton plans on staying US incorporated after the move is done you're wrong, unless we refuse to deal with them and again that's doing something.

No I don't support an attack on Iran until they make a move, I mean an act of war not that we heard from cousin Bob they have two AK 47's we've been there done that. besides unless some of you guys want to load up and do it I don't know who will, Bush already has all our military on near permanent tours because he can't find new troops. I guess we could borrow a few trillion more from the Chinese and hire some Mexicans to fight it huh? why not we're in debt up to our ears and hire everything done for us so that's good for our economy right?
 
The fact that foreign competition now impinges on services as well as manufacturing raises no new issues of principle whatever. If a car can be made more cheaply in Mexico, it should be. If a telephone enquiry can be processed more cheaply in India, it should be. All such transactions raise real incomes on both sides, as resources are advantageously redeployed, with added investment and growth in the exporting country, and lower prices in the importing country. Yes, trade is a positive-sum game."
- "The great hollowing-out myth," THE ECONOMIST, February 19, 2004


"Calls for new trade restrictions to preserve current jobs are misguided. There is no significant difference between jobs lost because of trade and those lost because of technologies or work processes. All of those job losses are a painful but necessary part of the larger process of innovation and productivity increases that is the source of new wealth and rising living standards."
- Brink Lindsey, "Job Losses and Trade A Reality Check," The Cato's Center for Trade Policy Studies

Myth 1: Offshore outsourcing is costing U.S. jobs.

A recent study by the McKinsey Global Institute calculated that for every dollar spent on a business process that is outsourced to India, the U.S. economy gains at least $1.12. The largest chunk -- 58 cents -- goes back to the original employer. And U.S. companies perform 30% of Indian offshoring, so money returns home as earnings.

The U.S. has lost 2 million jobs due to global trade over the past 20 years but in just 10 years has added 35 million new jobs

Myth 2: There's a stigma to offshore outsourcing.

In Bangalore, India, some 110,000 people are employed writing software, designing chips, running computer systems, reading MRIs, processing mortgages, preparing tax forms and doing other essential work for U.S., European, Japanese and even Chinese companies. Intel, Cisco, Oracle, Philips and GE are among the multinationals with significant R&D facilities there.

In fact, it would be challenging to find a single Fortune 500 company that is not outsourcing any part of its daily business operations to offshore outsourcing firms. Again, it's important to note that most outsourced jobs are supporting operations that aren't part of the core competency of U.S. firms, such as phone technical support, human resources administration and software coding.

Myth 6: What about the other risks of outsourcing?

Expense of initial migration. The best method of mitigating the concern of high upfront expenses is through a transparent, closely aligned partnership. The two parties can work together to construct a business case that satisfies both sides; for example, initial expenses can be minimized in exchange for a multiyear commitment that enables the outsourcer to make the necessary investments on behalf of its client.

Fear of losing control. Loss of control is best tackled in a similar manner with internal departments. Strict policies and procedures can be implemented to ensure satisfactory compliance. Another way of looking at it is that the separation of duties through an outsourcing partner allows for increased, rather than diminished, control.
 
Myth #8: Only greedy corporations benefit from outsourcing.

Fact: Everyone benefits from outsourcing.

Critics err seriously in trying to divorce benefits for corporations from benefits accruing to all Americans. Outsourcing is about keeping costs down in response to competition. As costs decline, every consumer benefits. The vast benefits from lower costs are usually overlooked because the benefits are diffused throughout the economy.

In contrast, the much smaller cost of jobs lost to outsourcing is sharply focused. In other words, the relative few who lose their jobs to outsourcing are far more vocal than the millions of consumers who save a few hundred dollars each year due to lower prices for such things as computers, cell phones, and coffee.

Early studies found that the gains of trade outweighed losses by 50 to 100 times. More recent studies also take the serious matter of job dislocations into account. A 2003 study by Michael W. Klein, Scott Schuh, and Robert K. Triest includes dislocation costs in its calculations, concluding that the benefits of trade outweigh its costs by 100 percent, or 2 to 1.[24] Overall, free trade saves American consumers billions of dollars.

Myth #9: The government can protect American workers from outsourcing.

The underlying myth is that free trade is not fair trade because fair trade can "protect" American companies and workers.

Fact: Protectionism is isolationism and has a history of failure.

Lawmakers have a longstanding record of pandering to specific interest groups on all issues, but the economic damage can become acute when the issue is trade. Misleading protectionist rhetoric fuels policies that are designed to placate these special interests and should be called what it really is: economic isolationism. One example is the recently imposed?and later rescinded?steel tariffs, which raised steel prices for all U.S. manufactures, hindered competitiveness, destroyed jobs domestically, and violated trade agreements.[25]

A recent flurry of anti-outsourcing proposals in Congress and at least 36 states threatens businesses that engage in free trade and investment.[26] Aside from inviting retaliation, clamping down on the ability of U.S. firms to open subsidiaries abroad will simply erode their competitiveness.

Economic isolationism is not new, and it has been an abject failure whenever adopted. A well-known example is the Smoot?Hawley tariff, enacted by Congress in June 1930 to reduce imports and protect American businesses and jobs.[27] Smoot?Hawley did halve imports between 1929 and 1933, but exports also declined by half over that period.[28] Subsequently, the rate of unemployment grew from 3.2 percent in 1929 to 8.7 percent in 1930 and peaked at 24.9 percent in 1933. U.S. efforts to constrict outsourcing can be expected to meet similar barriers among U.S. trade partners, harming Americans and the global economy.

It is not in America's interest to fall victim to hostile trade rhetoric. Bills before Congress and the states that restrict outsourcing are sending exactly the wrong image: a wealthy America that jealously guards against its prosperity and freedom leaking out to the Third World. This hostility only breeds resentment against America and makes efforts to adopt greater economic freedom around the world more difficult
 
Am doing okay proving my point Huntindude?

Conclusion

Outsourcing is not a credible threat to the U.S. economy, and objective research is quickly debunking its many underlying myths. At worst, outsourcing is a politically charged trigger word that has the potential to advance seriously flawed economic policy. For example, if state governments begin to bar contracts with firms that subcontract any work overseas, they will hamstring the competitiveness of U.S. firms.

Policymakers cannot stop the process of outsourcing any more than they can stop gravity, but they can scare off profitable U.S. companies. Businesses survive on slim profit margins, and threatening competitiveness will be felt immediately where it hurts the most?in U.S. jobs and salaries.

American companies lead the world in developing sophisticated global supply chains in close coordination with worldwide trading partners. Any disruption to the efficiency of that supply-chain network will have a negative ripple effect. By criticizing and regulating multinational companies that trade, invest, outsource, and insource, Congress is paving the way to major disruptions in efficiency that will lead simultaneously to both inflationary and recessionary pressures.

Instead, policymakers should address the underlying reasons that would induce a company from any country to site a business on foreign soil instead of in the U.S. In a global economy with global competition, the cost environment of taxes and regulation looms larger than ever. Although America has the world's most productive and skilled workforce, its high tax rates, tax complexity, burdensome regulations, and frivolous lawsuits discourage job creation.

The question is not the outsourcing of jobs, but the forcing out of jobs through inept policy. Congress and states would be wise to continue America's tradition of free and open markets.

?Timothy Kane, Ph.D., is Research Fellow in Macroeconomics in the Center for Data Analysis, Brett D. Schaefer is Research Fellow in International Regulatory Affairs in the Center for International Trade and Economics, and Alison Acosta Fraser is Director of the Thomas A. Roe Institute for Economic Policy Studies at The Heritage Foundation.
 
Interesting discussion. It's so refreshing to hear people present facts instead of conjecture, and opinions. I declare Nemont the winner! But only based on facts.

Huntindude, just go take it out on some more Californians trying to escape Pelosiland. I'm sure you can get what ever the market will bare! What a country!
 
> Is it just a coincidence
>that since the dems took
>congress and the no bid
>contracts are drying up Halliburton
>is moving it's HQ
>to Dubai? maybe it's just
>because of the cheap taxes
>and other perks they'll get
>but it looks bad. you'ld
>think after the billions they've
>hosed the American tax payers
>out of with underhanded and
>even illegal dealings they could
>at least stay here and
>put some of it back
>into our economy.



Man, it's enough to make you wonder why Clinton hired them?
 
If I was better with a computer it's not hard to counter all your points. I type with one finger and I don't know how to paste or whatever you call it, I'll admit it and I don't care . you aren't out debating me on this issue you're just better with a computer and everyone is better at typing, if you want the other side just google it there's tons of stuff to counter you. just like global warming there's two points of view, you just choose yours to be correct. maybe in the long run we will adjust and lower our standard of living while other countries raise theirs, I guess that's not all bad. you go ahead and buy your rice grinders and Chinese everything else. when I have a choice I buy American, I even switched to all Ford pickups for the ranch. I like the Dodges but the Cummins engines are made in Canada and the pickup is made in Mexico. I know every part on a Ford is not US made but most of it is. I buy a new diesel almost every year so I'm doing as much as I can to keep business in America. I may get called a lefty traitor all the time but as far as I'm concerned I'm a better American than someone who doesn't give a crap about American jobs but supports a failed Occupation of Iraq.
 
I was told that Pres. Clinton was the first to hire Haliburton to to the special support work they do for our armed services. Pres. Bush kept them on and then asked for contract bidders to bid on the work. No one else bid or wanted to do this job. I also heard that no other Company was equipped to fill the requests of the US Government.
Remember, this is what information I heard from some guys that are in the know.
It may not be totally correct, but I know Clinton was the first to put them to work.

TM
 
Your book is the gospel on the subject I take it? there's professors of economics who disagree with you, google it. It's funny how people like you tell us " traitors " how to live and what's wrong with us but make one comment about your patriotism and you you get cranked. I'll do whatever I can to support American workers and American companies , if you can justify to yourself why that's stupid be my guest.
 
That's true. I'm not sure all their dealings are crooked but they have some serious explaining to do. it's a known fact they've hosed the American tax payers out of an oh my god amount of money, how much if any was an accident remains to be seen. Dubai is a safe haven for crooks, it's not a matter of if but when they register as a company there and then they're untouchable.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-07 AT 10:33PM (MST)[p]Huntindude,

Do you read and understand the english language? I don't support any failed occupation of Iraq. I have said over and over again that I support my family members who are either deployed, redeploying or getting ready for their next tour in the Sand box. As much as I disliked Clinton he was still the President and I respect the office. I guess that can't be expected of you so I will quit trying.

Arguing economics has nothing to do with whether one can cut and paste from a website. Do a little reading "Wealth of Nations" would be a great start for you and then look into the some Macro economic models. You need to get it out of your head that all Republicans are greedy war mongers and all democrats are benevolent knights in shining armor that can "fix" problems through more government. Neither are true nor are they particularly relevent.

If tariffs work then can you explain why Ford is having any troubles as there is a hefty 25% tariff on foreign made PU trucks?

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3155

I don't know how you arrived that I am UnAmerican. I just don't get it. I have done everything my country has asked of me:
Veteran of a foreign war check
College Graduate check
Contribute to Society check
Pay my Tax on time and in full check
Created wealth through a business check
Employ others and pay a good wage check
Raise my childern w/mom at home check

Again you have drank the Kool-aid of the left to the point that you are just like the knee jerk Republicans, no objectivity, no real answers to anything and when things are put in front of you, you refuse to believe them and blame it on poor computer skills.

Open a book and read you will be surprised at what can be learned.

Nemont
 
Huntindude;

Your mind is like a steel trap that has been sprung, closed and unwilling to accept any facts that goes against any of your preconceived ideas.
As for your experts that you always go too when hit with facts, are they open minded, or do they have a agenda to push like you seem to have, that would taint any expert opinion they may have.
I have come to the conclusion that open debate, on certain subjects, is impossible with you, due to your preconceived ideas that you will not change unless hades froze over.
I think that it will be best to let you just go ahead and ramble on and not enter any debate with you because talking to a wall will get a better response.

RELH
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-07 AT 05:04AM (MST)[p]Dude, YOU ARE BRILLIANT!

"Aspen you're as dense as usual."......Couldn't wait to name call? Had to get it done on the first line didn't ya. That's a sure sign of someone who is losing a debate.

"I doubt many American's are going to get rich off Haliburton moving to Dubia, I know it's public traded company but what % of shares are owned by Americans?".....You are laughable. Haliburton is one of the most invested in companies by public retirement funds in the US. Look at the majority of Mutual Funds trades by Morgan Stanley or Goldman Sachs. You said it perfect."I doubt" means you don't know but have a hunch. Once again, use facts.

"then position them selves to do business in Iran our enemy according to you.".....Yeah, they are going to do business with Iran....I thought conspiracy theorists were mostly on the right wing. Guess not you freak!

"do you ever think things all the way through?".....Just another cut because you HAVE NO FACTS...so you resort to the DEM tradition of name calling. Sticking to the subject would be an improvement...let alone the facts!

"the dems will have to raise taxes as anyone else would to service the debt you " conservatives " have run up in the last 7 years."......Yeah, this has a lot to do with this thread. Next time start a new thread if you can't learn to focus.

"if the dems ran business and jobs out of the country why has most of it happened while Bush has been in office?"......More jobs have been created under Bush than under Clinton.......Why, feeble minds may ask? Because companies are making better profits because taxes are down and that is what companies like.....profits! It's not rocket science.

Nice post you (and now I stoop to DEM levels because I feel like fighting fire with fire) dummy! Or perhaps I should say "do you think"....or mabye "are you ignorant"....or perhaps "are you dense"? No, I won't call names or ask rhetorical questions. I'd rather stick to the FREAKING FACTS!

"One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-07 AT 08:22AM (MST)[p]
Huntindude,

I have never called you a traitor. Please find the quote, you are playing that old democrat game of turning yourself into a victim.

In fact the VAST majority of economist do view Adam Smith's "The Wealth of Nations" to be the bible for economic theory.

It is nice to know you are willing to support the auto workers who average about $100,000 a year but are willing to throw the working poor under the bus by placing tariffs on imported goods putting the poor further behind in the game. I thought you liberals wanted to help the poor.




"An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations is the magnum opus of the Scottish economist Adam Smith, published on March 9, 1776 during the Scottish Enlightenment. It is a clearly written account of political economy at the dawn of the Industrial Revolution, and is widely considered to be the first modern work in the field of economics. The work is also the first comprehensive defence of free market policies. It is broken down into five books between two volumes.

The Wealth of Nations was written for the average educated individual of the 18th century rather than for specialists and mathematicians".

"Magnum opus (sometimes Opus magnum, plural magna opera), from the Latin meaning great work,[1] refers to the best, most popular, or most renowned achievement of an author, artist, or composer, and most commonly one who has contributed a very large amount of material".

I don't care if you buy American, more power to you. All I am saying is that you are a Kool-Aid drinker for the left. You do everything that you accuse the Bush supporters of doing. I used to respect your opinions until your true colors finally shined through. You are closed minded, unwilling to listen or to see anything other then what the left wing of the democratic party says.

If you haven't read the Wealth of Nations then you are hopelessly uninformed about economics.

Nemont
 
This may not be as detrimental as I think it is but don't call me crazy for thinking as many experts do. until you are proven right don't thump on some book you see as a bible of economics and tell me I'm crazy, this is the global warming thing all over again we don't know who's right yet. I'm saying you might be correct but I'm not sold this early in the game , so who's closed minded? you're the one telling me I'm flat wrong and buying American makes me a chump. I get sick of this crap where everyone jumps on somebody who dares to disagree with your theologians because it may not suit your political needs. we were told the same thing about the war, we were proven right but we're still traitors in the far right's eyes. hence the traitor comment, Nemont I was speaking in general I don't think you personally were into that. when it comes down to the wire I'm saying I'm going to do what I see as best for my country and buy American until I'm convinced it does no good and Hop Sing can make everything for me. what possible reason do you have to tell me that's the wrong thing to do and I'm a nut job? do you have a vested interest in China or do you just like to argue?
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-07 AT 09:28AM (MST)[p]I am actually heavily invested in the American Economy. Hardly anybody that rushed into China to invest has made money. Emerging markets are usually a terrible place to seek returns on your capital, as an average investor. I am not a huge risk taker with my money.

Economics is a far more advanced field vs global warming. If global warming and economics were equal then we would still be arguing if supply and demand was a reality.

I never said you are crazy, I have said you are wrong to want to become protectionist. Protectionism is what started and agravated the great depression.

I also never said you were a chump for buying American. Buy American when you can but don't look down on others who cannot afford higher priced American made goods.

How is supporting ineffecient industry good for America? Innovation and invention are stifled when ineffecient jobs are protected by politicians. Do you beleive the American Economy is the most dynamic and productive in the world?

"Study after study has shown that tariffs cause reduced economic growth to the country imposing them. A few of examples:
-The essay on Free Trade at The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics looks at the issue of international trade policy. In the essay, Alan Blinder states that "one study estimated that in 1984 U.S. consumers paid $42,000 annually for each textile job that was preserved by import quotas, a sum that greatly exceeded the average earnings of a textile worker. That same study estimated that restricting foreign imports cost $105,000 annually for each automobile worker's job that was saved, $420,000 for each job in TV manufacturing, and $750,000 for every job saved in the steel industry."

-In the year 2000 President Bush raised tariffs on imported steel goods between 8 and 30 percent. The Mackinac Center for Public Policy cites a study which indicates that the tariff will reduce U.S. national income by between 0.5 to 1.4 billion dollars. The study estimates that less than 10,000 jobs in the steel industry will be saved by the measure at a cost of over $400,000 per job saved. For every job saved by this measure, 8 will be lost.

-The cost of protecting these jobs is not unique to the steel industry or to the United States. The National Center For Policy Analysis estimates that in 1994 tariffs cost the U.S. economy 32.3 billion dollars or $170,000 for every job saved. Tariffs in Europe cost European consumers $70,000 per job saved while Japanese consumers lost $600,000 per job saved through Japanese tariffs".



No I don't just like to argue. Do you? I have invited you to answer direct questions or post other facts saying economically we are better off to restrict trade.

I live in world where I have to be careful where I spend my money. I shop for value regardless of whether in labor, stocks, vehicles, land, houses, clothes whatever. I don't have the luxury of just blindly buy American at any cost nor should I. If Ming can provide my shirts cheaper at equal quality then I would be stupid to buy them from Joe, maybe Joe needs to sharpen his pencil and figure out how to compete with Ming or maybe Joe can't do that but he can change careers and make even more money doing something else.

I am finished discussing it with you. Continue to think that you are helping by buying Ford Pickups and that the Democrats can fix anything regarding international trade. I am going to continue to shop for value and watch as the U.S. economy weathers another down turn and bounces back better then before.

Nemont
 
Nemont;

You did it again, and you are going to have to stop it. You hit Dude with too many facts and he has to take time to dream up a liberal's political correct statement to counter you. In other words he has to come up with a B.S. spin.
But the real problem is that you forgot he has to take time to "Google" his research and can only type with a hunt and peck "one finger" system. That is the reason he is taking so long to give you a reply.
Please make your facts shorter, so he does not have to work so hard. If he spends too much time dreaming and typing, he may decrease his earning power to the point he can no longer buy Ford pickups.

RELH
 
The reason it took me so long to reply is I've been on a tractor planting mint all day. a crop my family has grown here for 50 years and I may be about done with . I may be done because India can produce it cheaper than I can , so you say who cares Dude has enough money and I don'y like him anyway. the point is every time you shut down a factory or stop producing something and there's nothing to take it's place the whole econmy suffers. the reason I can't compete is I pay WAY more labor, taxes, our chemicals here are WAY more expensive and less effective than those my competition uses. they still use DDT which would solve 90% of my insecticide needs and is much cheaper than what I can use. most poor countries use fertilizer high in lead , I can't buy high lead cheap fertilizer like my competition . the whole thing boils down to the fact we don't have a level playing field, I'm saddled with much higher cost and more regulation not to mention most of my competition gets higher subsidies than US farmers could ever dream of. so when you say American's should compete on the world market or die I say they'll die. read want if it makes you feel better or smarter but I think American's can compete with anyone on a level playing field but we aren't getting one.
 
You are not telling us anything new, but just whinning about it being a unfair level playing field. Most americans do not want to eat your crop that has been sprayed with DDT, or a high lead content fertilizer was used that they may ingest. Yea, our costs are high, but that goes hand and hand with the high wages we make on the average compared with other countries. As for your cheap stoop labour being higher, blame that on your Dems. for feeling that you the rich, must pass some of your profit down to them, including illegal aliens, and the welfare population that is getting into the third and fourth generation of getting free handouts. Speaking of insecticides, and high cost fertilizer, most of those laws were the brainstorm of Dems going along with your liberal free earth nuts, but again, some may have been needed to protect the consumer. They just went overboard as usual.
As for making it as a farmer, I married the farmer's daughter. He not only made a good living on 400 acres of farmland, he managed his money very well and his net worth exceeded three million. He also saw a few of his farming friends go under because they did not do a good job of saving for a rainly day.
It's funny how you can come accross as a expert on numerous things, but when hit with cold hard facts, you resort to whinning about "poor me". Talk about changing a subject to project attentions elsewhere. I wonder who was your role models on that. No!! I am not going there, but open your eyes and mind and you just might wake up in time. This whole country needs to wake up and get rid of our Dems and GOP that talk out both sides of the mouth and not do a damn thing to help this country, only themselfs. I really like it when Pelosi opens her two face mouth and talks about taxing the rich again to help the poor "Have Nots". Everybody on the low end of the income line really soaks it up and does not relize that Pelosi is a millionare many times over and is only giving lip service.But, both sides have done that, we need to weed them out, as a farmer you can understand that.
RELH
 
Wow I guess you showed me. I'm not whining for my own sake I'm set very well but why is it wrong to care about your fellow American( some of you aside). my point you couldn't grasp is if the playing field is not level American's don't have a chance against unregulated countries. to blame that on the dems is the stupidest of stupid things you've said yet. the average wage in China is $140 a month today, it's the dems fault I can't get workers for that money? and it's the dems fault I can't us DDT or high lead fertilizer? I'm just using ag as an example because that's what I know, it's the same in most industries if you can get your mind around that. how do you see this as a fair business environment, and I don't mean for me so save your insults and stick to economics.
 
Funny, dude is complaining that the can't compete with lead free fertilizer because of the regulations.

Then he wants to fix it with more regs.

Hmmmmmmmmmm

"One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
 
Typical Aspen, you can't answer the question so you try to take it back to a personal issue again, that seems to be the pattern with 90% of you. I said if American's have a different set of rules to play by how do they compete in the world market? don't give me the crap about American's will get more efficient and thrive, if you want to work for $140 a month like a Chinaman we'll test that theory. come on to Oregon I need summer workers.
 
I know I said I was done with this but you have provided a case study in exactly what the problem is.

You are saying that the regulation imposed on you has raised your costs. At least that is what I understand you to say, you cannot produce mint as cheaply as they do in India because of government imposed regulation.

Why do you think the people who purchase your product (mint) sought out a cheaper supplier? It isn't because they dislike you, no it is because of the regulations have made your product more expensive.

Huntindude,

Just two questions:

What would you have the government do to level the playing field so that you can compete head to head in the world market place for mint sales? EVERYTHING the government has done so far has hurt you.

What does a level playing field mean?

Nemont
 
Huntindude;

It was not to long ago that workers in this country was working for 140 bucks or less per month. If you want to level the playing field, you better come up with a idea of how to get other countries to go along with it as they are trying to get a bigger share of our market. I think they will tell you to shovel it and continue to import their cheaper products here.
We could close our borders to foreign trade, but the backlash would put this country in turmoil. so I guess you will have to except what you got for now.
As for that part about being well off, but you want better for other Americans, why not just give them some of your wealth since that is the Democratic way for providing to others that are in need. Pelosi will love you, but will laught at you when your back is turned.

RELH
 
OK now you guys are making some sense. how do I say we fix it? I don't know. I don't like teriffs but I'm not sure there is any other way, other countries like Japan place huge teriffs on imports to protect their domestic production. I'm not saying I have the answer but knowing there's a problem is the first step.

RELH, the capital gains I'm paying this year should pay the welfare for a number of our finest for this year. someones got to keep the crack dealers in business. or pay for 13 seconds of the war, either way I feel I've done my part.
 
I did not personally attack you Dude. I said, in less words, what NeMont said later.

"One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
 
Dude;

Believe it or not, but I agree with you about you having done your share by paying high taxes on your gains. You and every other American that has to pay. What I am trying to get across is the fact that Pelosi and her party does not believe it is enought, they want "YOU" to pay more to support a broken abused welfare system and other pork barrel items that will not benefit us one iota.
I prefer my money going to support the military and our brush war in the sand box, at lease there is some hope that we or our children may have a little more peace in the future. If we do or do not is to be seen, but at lease their is a glimmer of hope it will be successful. what the democrats spend the majority of money on will never benifit the average working person as much as it does the trash that abuses the system and lives for their free handout.
Pelosi was quoted several days ago in San Francisco that her party needs to raise taxes on the "rich" to provide more for the needy. Thats means you, me and all others who work for a living. I am sure she will not be including her millions in that higher tax and will hit the middle income wage earner again.
How many times have we yelled for reform in our various give away programs to have it slammed down by the majority of the Dem. party because it will cost them votes from the poor depressed millions in this country. So stay with your Dems if you choose, just remember that they consider you "Rich" and want more of your dollars to give away to the poor. Just do not whine to me about it, you make your bed and you must sleep in it.

RELH
 
RELH , you make some valid points there but for all their faults the dems have NEVER ever in their wildest dreams blown the money Bush has. each American now owes $29,334 as we speak and climbing. I think who ever wins in '08 will have to admit this is a problem and deal with it, yes raise taxes. we're borrowing money from countries like China to sevice this so just how long until they decide we're a bad investment? blaming the dems works sometimes but not here, for now anyway.
 
Raise taxes?

When Walmart is having a tough time getting sales do they raise prices? NO! They have a SALE and discount prices to get more customers to come in. Lowering prices increases business and as long as the price is higher than the cost of the product you have a PROFIT!

The US is set to get out of deficit spending in the next few years. Not as a result of raised taxes, but in fact as a result of exactly the opposite. Anyone with a basic understanding of Macro or Micro economics and economic history will not buy the LIE of raising taxes to pay of the national debt.

I hope you get what you want. Raise taxes! Send more American jobs overseas, decrease the average American paycheck. Which will cause less spending, which will cause lesss need for goods in the store. Which will cause a further decrease in jobs. And it becomes a vicious cycle. If you don't see it then you are blind to basic economic theory.

Explain how raising taxes will improve the economy!?! Not lower the national debt, but improve the economy!?!

"One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
 
Bush lowered taxes and raised the debt already so your theory hasn't worked. I don't want higher taxes I'm thinking more like no more cuts and less spending. you're typical of the far right, if you're trying something and it doesn't work just keep trying someday it might get better.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-16-07 AT 11:41AM (MST)[p]Without delay I would like to tip my hat to Nemont.

I was so happy to see that Nemont took the time research how NAFTA, China's devalued currency, and Mexico's loss of manufacturing jobs has enhanced our illegal immigration problem. The immigration problem has a direct effect on financially draining our state's judicial, medical, and education systems.

Legal or Illegal immigrant flows have always had an impact on construction, maintenance and manual labor job markets. An ever shrinking manufacturing base combined with an overflow of i.i. replacing manual labor jobs is having a negative effect on the U.S. economy.

However, as consumers we enjoy all the benfits by paying for comparable less expensive foreign goods. Nemont and those that embrace corporate profitability at any cost should come down to Gilroy, CA and hold up a "Buy Chinese Garlic Sign".

Now Nemont, in the Accusations Game, you can't accuse me of accusing you of making direct statements about the Ports Deal, when such an accusation does not exist. If you feel personally attacked, well, it's there, read it. Accusing me of accusing you when in reality your accusatory accusation is fales, leaving me accusatory of your false accusations.

BTW, you can't use my rhetoric by using "the old ____ trick of". Aha, using "the old trick" of old trickery...That's just the oldest trick in the Book of Trickiest Tricks. Like I said, You're good, but you are still wrong for being a lackey and supporting corporate profitability at any cost.

One month before Enron ever hit the news, they were another benchmark corporation. Indeed their stocks were widely held in the portfolios of energy traded funds.

Their Accountants were top rate and we were all familiar with Arthur Anderson they sponsered golf players and tournaments. It would not have been uncommon to have seen Kenny-boy on CNBC. Hell, back then, even I did work Arthur Anderson. Long term employess of Enron would swear by their companies long time integrity. Then everything unfolded.

Halliburton is not Enron, Halliburton plays a more critical role of being the largest contractor of the war. Currently Halliburton is a U.S. based corporation, however there is no law preventing them from being a foreign based company in a country that has no people or paper extradition laws.

Given their presence in the gulf I do believe that they already had offices in Dubai. However, we all know corps. they very carefully select their words for press releases. So why let it be known the CEO offices are relocating there?

I would think it would only serve as a giant target given Fox's description of Dubai.

If Halliburton openned an office in Dubai without moving it's corporate executive offices it wouldn't have even made the news.
Halliburton has multiple subs. Blackwater, KBR, Custard & Battles, etc. These subs have found guilty of over-billing, murder, fraudulant billing, unfulfilled building contracts, etc.

There were other choices, Bechtel could have been another reconstruction choice, and we did not need to fire the original french food contractor either.

Due to the war, war-time contractors should not be able move their corporate offices or corporate records off shore. As part of their contract, they should have to remain a U.S. based and housed corp. for a 10 year period after hostilities have passed and peace is declared.

After WWII, our government audited military contractors for war-profiteering. Why should our abilities of such oversight be voided under some strange guise of supporting "free-trade"?

I hope your disagreement isn't predicated on the fact that Halliburton is relocating it's corp. offices to Dubai, because it plans on reducing it's bottomline lease and payroll costs.

I never knew there was a shortage of qualified office staff here in the U.S. for filing, data-entry, office maintenance, and records keeping. Perhaps after hiring all those illegals to work at the Texas hdqtrs, they could save more by hiring workers in Dubai. The cost savings must be huge since it will cost multiple millions to move the corp. office to Dubai.

Maybe it's because they do so much work in the gulf! Maybe, but the cost to move, corporate housing and relocation, and executive office set-up, will far outweigh the cost of flying a first-class private jet daily to Dubai. We do have phones, computers, computer conferencing, etc.

Wouldn't you as a family member or a friend of a soldier and taxpayer like to be assured that your largest military contrator cannot escape accountability by moving it's corporate offices to foreign soil?
 
My finger are sore! If you are still reading this, I'm hoping that long rant would be the neck-shot of this specific but repetitively widening topic.

On-topic: Have any military contractors since WWII ever moved their corporate offices to foreign soil during a time of war?

Off-topic: Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Dell recently announce the closure of their India call center, and re-relocating the call centers back to the U.S.?

I'm getting a drink...
 
FTW , very good post. funny you should mention Gilroy , I've grown garlic seed for Gilroy Foods for 15 years and I didn't get a contract this year. they've cut domestic production enough because of Chinese imports they don't need most of us up here anymore. I don't blame them if they don't use the cheap crap they'ld fold like De Francisco did. if you live there you might have seen their short lived slogan " All American All The Time " they're out of business now, but Nemont says this is all for the good so not to worry.
 
FTW & Huntindude,

I would respond to all of your post but what would be the point? You really don't care to hear.



Nemont
 
Oh no, what's wrong Nemont? I thought you could enlighten us dummies on the whole cheaper labor, higher profitability, what's good for the corporation is even better for you ad campaign you have been spewing. Pretty to hard to argue that Halliburton is moving to Dubai to improve it's bottomline when there are only 420,000 citizens in the U.A.E. with an individual wealth of $17,000,000 per citizen. I know Nemont, more of those stupid fact thingies, you don't let get in the way of your opinions.

It's hard to imagine the richest city in the world! No it isn't, that's the city where Halliburton has it's new Headquarters. My, my, will wonders ever cease, imagine that!

Nemont has sewn 16 threads on this post, outside of today I have had 2. So I can understand how he has become too over-whelmed to respond. Nemont you are correct about one thing unless it pertains specifically to Halliburton moving to Dubai, we don't care to hear.

If you want to talk about your fondness for the Tri-lateral commission, the virtues of globalism, or your desires for a new world order, please throw that dung onto your own post pile.

So, yeah hdude I've been coaching youth Baseball this year mostly 7-8 year olds. Got some return players, some new players, and some that came up from T-Ball. I gotta tell ya them little guys crack me up, some of things kids say these days really catch you off guard. One of my kids broke down after striking out, threw his bat and helmet, then started crying. One of my 7 year old players looks at me and says, "Man, high-maintenance, he's got anger issues" I almost hit the floor of the dugout laughing.

Gotta research those last 2 questions from the previous thread. Man, now with Nemont gone how will we ever find out the real answers?
 
It's o.k. Nemont don't be so hard on yourself, there are plenty of self-help books and home study courses for self improvement. Hey, wait a second, you're not saying your stupid, your're saying I am stupid.

I'm gonna PMS you
 
Good choice NeMont. Casting pearls before swine has been counceled against before.

"One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
 

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