Help with argument against 1 shot

elks96

Long Time Member
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So I am working on a letter to the editor for my local papers speaking against the one shot. The hunt is currently happening and the local papers are swooning over the event and how wonderful it is etc.

I need help creating an argument against it in terms of the North American Wildlife Model. So how exactly does the hunt violate the model? Something concise and pointed that people will understand?
 
So I am working on a letter to the editor for my local papers speaking against the one shot. The hunt is currently happening and the local papers are swooning over the event and how wonderful it is etc.

I need help creating an argument against it in terms of the North American Wildlife Model. So how exactly does the hunt violate the model? Something concise and pointed that people will understand?
Did you read through the other threads in the wyo forum? Might be some good info to find
 
Did you read through the other threads in the wyo forum? Might be some good info to find
Yeah I have participated in some form on most of those threads. But I am having a hard time creating a clear path on how it violates the Model, other than the resource is a public resource for all to enjoy and not a select elite few.

I was hoping for a smoking gun simple argument from a management perspective against the hunt.
 
So I found this line from the US Fish and Wildlife website on the foundation of NA Model...

  1. The democracy of hunting. In keeping with democratic principles, government allocates access to wildlife without regard for wealth, prestige, or land ownership
Does carving out licenses for a special group, namely wealthy/influential politicians violate this idea?
 
Just ask why, when populations are down across the board for pronghorn they got the allotted licenses they asked for? Were tags cut in that area for the draw ? If so why are they special, just because they have money ?
The money raised should have to stay in Wyoming, not go to water projects in other countries. Licenses allotted without a draw should have the revenue raised from them stay in Wyoming, period.
 
I have one major point in this area. Public licenses were cut in the hunt area as a result of low recruitment/survival. Despite having public opportunity cut the hunt received the full amount of tags...
In regards to the biological side, the key would be the desired total harvest for both the public hunts & the 1-Shot. IOW, who gets the tags to kill them is a social engineering issue. ;)
 
Ya I’m not sure there thoughts but been hearing on the local radio how this year women will participate and be making history hmmm why is that history my mom, my wife, nieces ect and from what I’ve read on this forum many of others have lady hunters in there families. Not sure I understand hype and why these tags are even legal. I know my wife had harvested several animals with 1 shot so why is that special ?
 
The NAM stands for equal access to wildlife for all in so many words and the One Shot certainly is not that. The fact is they get 80 tags to give to whom they please.

It doesn't matter what you say, the "good ole boys" will have a comeback. All hunters should be against this sham, good on you Rob to take it on. I've had many folks from Lander say they don't like it. but do or say nothing about it.
 
So I found this line from the US Fish and Wildlife website on the foundation of NA Model...

  1. The democracy of hunting. In keeping with democratic principles, government allocates access to wildlife without regard for wealth, prestige, or land ownership
Does carving out licenses for a special group, namely wealthy/influential politicians violate this idea?

If that's your line of thought you'd best go after ALL tag carve outs, otherwise the argument against your point is that you don't like "celebrities".

Challenge the very idea. That this is not hunting, it is shooting. Challenge them to video the antelope being field dressed by the shooters. Challenge them to show the shooters freezers. Explain that we as hunters are sick and tired of being drug through the mud for things that are called hunting, that we disagree with, be it One Shot, or "Cecil the lion".
 
Are you also writing in opposition to the Wyoming Women’s Antelope hunt? For years the One Shot hunt was highly criticized as it didn’t allow women. Now they do. Seems an organization with obvious discrimination and same set aside licenses would have to be included or it’s not an impartial editorial. How come men cannot participate in the Women’s Hunt? Perhaps there will be an LGBTQ group asking for their hunt. The One Shot donates a substantial amount of money as hunters to wildlife water projects, scholarships and outdoor education workshops, the epitome of the North American Conservation model. The oldest hunting competition in North America should not be cancelled all out as it has significant culture and tradition. Reducing the tags from 80 to 40 seems like a compromise for all parties and might be a better approach for your response.
 
And all that money should stay in Wyoming, period.
Yes, I have opposed the Women's hunt. Reached out to the commissioner I've known for many years about that.
The One Shot hunt started as a bragging session around a campfire, nothing more.

Keep all that money raised from Wyoming licenses in our state if you're going to have that hunt, same for the Women's hunt. That by the way only got allotted tags last year or so , they had to draw their tags just like the rest of us.
If the One Shot wants our support they need to draw their tags as well.
Do away with both , imo.
 
Are you also writing in opposition to the Wyoming Women’s Antelope hunt? For years the One Shot hunt was highly criticized as it didn’t allow women. Now they do. Seems an organization with obvious discrimination and same set aside licenses would have to be included or it’s not an impartial editorial. How come men cannot participate in the Women’s Hunt? Perhaps there will be an LGBTQ group asking for their hunt. The One Shot donates a substantial amount of money as hunters to wildlife water projects, scholarships and outdoor education workshops, the epitome of the North American Conservation model. The oldest hunting competition in North America should not be cancelled all out as it has significant culture and tradition. Reducing the tags from 80 to 40 seems like a compromise for all parties and might be a better approach for your response.
HAHA... I am not sure we can agree on a significant amount of money. From what I see the 80 licenses, read that again 80 prime antelope licenses do not even raise $50,000 total. The numbers I saw were like $4000 scholarships and less than 10,000 to conservation (more like $2,000). The rest is spent on admin and on the hunt itself. Then when less than 1/2 the projects funded were in WY. It is sickening.

I also agree that the women's hunt should also go. No carve out for any group for any reason.

As for the rest, can you imagine what a good organzation could do with 80 prime tags? Hell with 80 tags, you should easily be able to raise $80,000. According to the numbers I have seen they are not even raising $700 per tag. It is sad and wasteful. Hell give me those 80 tags and let me run a lotto drawing and no doubt we could exceed the amount they raise.

I could careless about tradition. There are many traditions that need to go as times change. This is one. It is currently taking the average Joe NR 10 years to draw a single tag in this area. Some of those NR politicians have had over 6 tags. Think about that, a democratic governor from Colorado who has a net worth over $10,000,000 has already obtained 60 years worth of NR tags.

The only way this hunt can progress is if the hunt allows the public to apply and allows the teams to be picked from a random draw of everyone wishing to hunt. Instead of the wealthy elite, politicians and those in the "IN Crowd" it should be open to anyone willing to enter. Then take the sponsors and the wealthy and let them sponsor and bet on a winning team.

Sorry but it needs to end. When Residents are waiting every 4 years to draw a tag (draw odds 20-30%) it is not acceptable to cut our allocation and then keep the hunts allocation up.

Nothing about this hunt present a favorable imagine of hunting to the public.
 
We shouldn't forget the Wildlife Task Force and that they will be talking set-asides at some point. One of the common themes talked about so far are landowner tags. I did a little checking and found that in the five areas the One Shot gets tags, all combined there were 67 landowner tags issued this year. In other words; the One Shot gets more antelope tags than landowners!
 
When Residents are waiting every 4 years to draw a tag (draw odds 20-30%) it is not acceptable to cut our allocation and then keep the hunts allocation up.
elks,

Good on you for voicing your opinion.

Be prepared for WGFD biologist in the area to say that the One Shot tag allocation has no affect on the draw tag allocation. He has stated in the past, at Commission meetings that the draw tag numbers for the units in the One Shot are unaffected by the tags given out at the One Shot. In his words even if they got rid of all One Shot tags the draw tag numbers in those units would not change. It sounded like pure BS at the time and hasn't improved with age. Just be aware that this counter argument will be made.
 
We shouldn't forget the Wildlife Task Force and that they will be talking set-asides at some point. One of the common themes talked about so far are landowner tags. I did a little checking and found that in the five areas the One Shot gets tags, all combined there were 67 landowner tags issued this year. In other words; the One Shot gets more antelope tags than landowners!
At least those 67 landowner tags are factored into the draw tag numbers. The One Shot tags are so engrained in the area the bio cant be bothered to factor them into tag number calculation.
 
HAHA... I am not sure we can agree on a significant amount of money. From what I see the 80 licenses, read that again 80 prime antelope licenses do not even raise $50,000 total. The numbers I saw were like $4000 scholarships and less than 10,000 to conservation (more like $2,000). The rest is spent on admin and on the hunt itself. Then when less than 1/2 the projects funded were in WY. It is sickening.

I also agree that the women's hunt should also go. No carve out for any group for any reason.

As for the rest, can you imagine what a good organzation could do with 80 prime tags? Hell with 80 tags, you should easily be able to raise $80,000. According to the numbers I have seen they are not even raising $700 per tag. It is sad and wasteful. Hell give me those 80 tags and let me run a lotto drawing and no doubt we could exceed the amount they raise.

I could careless about tradition. There are many traditions that need to go as times change. This is one. It is currently taking the average Joe NR 10 years to draw a single tag in this area. Some of those NR politicians have had over 6 tags. Think about that, a democratic governor from Colorado who has a net worth over $10,000,000 has already obtained 60 years worth of NR tags.

The only way this hunt can progress is if the hunt allows the public to apply and allows the teams to be picked from a random draw of everyone wishing to hunt. Instead of the wealthy elite, politicians and those in the "IN Crowd" it should be open to anyone willing to enter. Then take the sponsors and the wealthy and let them sponsor and bet on a winning team.

Sorry but it needs to end. When Residents are waiting every 4 years to draw a tag (draw odds 20-30%) it is not acceptable to cut our allocation and then keep the hunts allocation up.

Nothing about this hunt present a favorable imagine of hunting to the public.
You greatly underestimate the projects just in Wyoming alone.
Water for Wildlife® currently has 194 completed/in-progress projects in Wyoming. See the project locations and information on the interactive google map! Click the colored project names to view photos of the project. If the project has trail camera photos, those are shown in a separate link next to the project name. Trail camera photos can also be viewed collectively under the Gallery tab.

Project #, Project Name
#2 Gates Draw Well
#4 Bandy Well
#5 Moneta Well
#6 12-Mile Well
#7 Allard Well
#8 Herbst Artesian Well
#10 Fish Draw Artesian Well
#11 Fraser Draw Windmill
#18 Hay Press Well
#19 Sheep Mountain Guzzler
#20 Birdseye Artesian Well
#21 Jack Morrow Hills Guzzler #1
#22 Cedar Canyon Guzzler #1
#23 Cedar Canyon Guzzler #2
#24 Cedar Canyon Guzzler #3
#25 Pine Canyon Guzzler #1
#26 Pine Canyon Guzzler #2
#27 Nine Mile Well
#28 Jack Morrow Hills Guzzler #2
#29 Clifton Guzzler
#30 Pennock Mountain Guzzler
#31 Reculusa Pipeline Well
#32 Freeman Draw Spring
#33 Black Mountain Guzzler
#41 Antelope Springs Reservoir
#46b Leon Baird (Three Square) Wetland Protection Fence
#50 Pennock Mountain Snow Fence II
#67 A-A Guzzler
#68 Powerline Project
#70 Happy Hollow
#87 Encampment River Guzzler #1
#88 Trail Creek Spring
#92 Encampment River Guzzler #2
#100 Friday the 13th Wetland Protection Fence
#101 Cottontail Wetland Protection Fence
#102 Elephant Rock Spring
#103 Cedar Springs Cross Ranch II
#104 E.O. Taylor Unit Windmill
#114 Diamond Springs Reservoir
#136 Pollard Spring Development
#137 Elkhorn Well Trough #1
#138 Elkhorn Well Trough #2
#147 Goshen Hole Guzzler
#151 Elkhorn Well Trough #3
#152 Elkhorn Well Trough #4
#154 Salt Creek Wetlands
#155 Rutherford Guzzler
#158 E.O. Taylor WHMA Spring Solar Renovation
#159 Blue Mesa #1 ; #159/160 trail camera photos
#160 Blue Mesa #2 ; #159/160 trail camera photos
#161 Strube Memorial WHA
#165 North Tipton Wetland Project
#166 Red Desert Wetland Project
#167 Little Twin Lakes
#168 Napierskie Reservoir
#173 Squaw Teats Guzzler #1 ; #173/174 trail camera photos
#174 Squaw Teats Guzzler #2 ; #173/174 trail camera photos
#175 Potter Butte Pipeline/Fence #1
#176 Potter Butte Pipeline/Fence #2
#182 Bear Creek Pipeline
#183 Mike Mathiot Wetlands
#189 Colter’s Pond
#191 Missouri John Spring Development
#192 Big Won Reservoir
#193 Rocky Mountain Guzzler
#195 Tatman Mountain Guzzler #1
#196 Tatman Mountain Guzzler #2
#211 Jelm Mountain Guzzler
#212 Lu Gillies Pipeline
#213 Pine Bluff Guzzler
#214 Pugsley Wildlife Facility
#215 Eversole Spring/Ponds
#216 Chicken Springs Development
#218 Potato Ridge Reservoir
#222 Ice Slough Riparian Fence-Green Mountain Commons #1
#223 Diagnus Well Wetland-Green Mountain Commons #2
#224 Horse Track Well/Riparian Fence-Green Mountain Commons #3
#226 Holgerson’s Guzzler
#227 Kennedy Farms Guzzler
#228 Indian Meadows Ranch Guzzler
#236 Rohweder Guzzler Project
#237 Brown Guzzler Project
#238 Baab Guzzler
#239 Splinter Farms Guzzler
#240 Springfield Ranch Wildlife/Livestock Watering Facility & Upland Habitat Enhancement
#241 Holt Guzzler
#242 Red Mill Guzzler
#247 Glenn Reservoir
#252 Red Butte & Tenmile Guzzlers ; #252 trail camera photos
#253 Faddis Ranch Water Development
#254 Buffalo Gulch Pipeline Project
#255 Jeffres Guzzler Project
#256 Soppe CRP Enhancement Project
#262 Lemaster Stock Tank Project
#263 Kinchen Wetland
#264 Community Wildlife Education Center
#265 WG&F Education Center
#266 Crescent Basin Water Pipeline
#268 Martin Guzzler
#269 Beaver Guzzler
 
elks,

Good on you for voicing your opinion.

Be prepared for WGFD biologist in the area to say that the One Shot tag allocation has no affect on the draw tag allocation. He has stated in the past, at Commission meetings that the draw tag numbers for the units in the One Shot are unaffected by the tags given out at the One Shot. In his words even if they got rid of all One Shot tags the draw tag numbers in those units would not change. It sounded like pure BS at the time and hasn't improved with age. Just be aware that this counter argument will be made.
The biologist could certainly be telling the truth but it might expose a larger scandal of Cheyenne “Fudging the numbers” and the One Shot licenses might not have any effect upon resident draw odds, even if it the hunt went away completely?
 
elks,

Good on you for voicing your opinion.

Be prepared for WGFD biologist in the area to say that the One Shot tag allocation has no affect on the draw tag allocation. He has stated in the past, at Commission meetings that the draw tag numbers for the units in the One Shot are unaffected by the tags given out at the One Shot. In his words even if they got rid of all One Shot tags the draw tag numbers in those units would not change. It sounded like pure BS at the time and hasn't improved with age. Just be aware that this counter argument will be made.
You're right; pure BS!

The first time we sat down with Jason Hunter of G&F he told us they factored in the One Shot tags in their quotas. That story changed and he has denied it ever since. The problem is there were three of us in that meeting that heard him say it.

I challenged then Director, Scott Talbot about it and when he testified in front of TRW, a legislator asked him if the One Shot tags effected sportsman's opportunity in those areas. He reply was "yes".

Pat Crank also called out the "over-issue" explanation at a Commission meeting. Antelope tags are issued and antelope are dying; those tags effect sportsman in those areas without a doubt!
 
At least those 67 landowner tags are factored into the draw tag numbers. The One Shot tags are so engrained in the area the bio cant be bothered to factor them into tag number calculation.
What units can the one shotters hunt? Can they hunt multiple units? If you assume they hunt somewhat close to Lander in units: 65, 66 and 106 then that is 15% of the buck pronghorn licenses in those units (80 / (450 + 80)) go to the one-shot program! I know it would be less if you add in 68, 64, 67 and 107, but how far do they really drive to shoot an antelope? Is any part of their game based on timing, how quickly you get back after taking your four shots? If so, that in itself tells you something about the competition.
 
And all that money should stay in Wyoming, period.
Yes, I have opposed the Women's hunt. Reached out to the commissioner I've known for many years about that.
The One Shot hunt started as a bragging session around a campfire, nothing more.

Keep all that money raised from Wyoming licenses in our state if you're going to have that hunt, same for the Women's hunt. That by the way only got allotted tags last year or so , they had to draw their tags just like the rest of us.
If the One Shot wants our support they need to draw their tags as well.
Do away with both , imo.

Careful. That's playing with fire.

$fw whole approach is that their tags "create money" for the state.

If your against one shot, it can't be "well, it's ok if Wyoming keeps the money"
 
We shouldn't forget the Wildlife Task Force and that they will be talking set-asides at some point. One of the common themes talked about so far are landowner tags. I did a little checking and found that in the five areas the One Shot gets tags, all combined there were 67 landowner tags issued this year. In other words; the One Shot gets more antelope tags than landowners!

So are cut out tags for landowners better? Reread your definition. It specifically mentions land owners.
 
What units can the one shotters hunt? Can they hunt multiple units? If you assume they hunt somewhat close to Lander in units: 65, 66 and 106 then that is 15% of the buck pronghorn licenses in those units (80 / (450 + 80)) go to the one-shot program! I know it would be less if you add in 68, 64, 67 and 107, but how far do they really drive to shoot an antelope? Is any part of their game based on timing, how quickly you get back after taking your four shots? If so, that in itself tells you something about the competition.
I dont know the answers to most of those questions. I do that 106 has historically been one of the units that One shot tags are issued for.
 
The NAM stands for equal access to wildlife for all in so many words and the One Shot certainly is not that. The fact is they get 80 tags to give to whom they please.

It doesn't matter what you say, the "good ole boys" will have a comeback. All hunters should be against this sham, good on you Rob to take it on. I've had many folks from Lander say they don't like it. but do or say nothing about it.
If you need a quote from B&C for your editorial, go here:
B&C North American Model

I bolded 1, 4 and 5 that you should be able to use though 5 I guess is debatable

The Model includes seven foundational principles:

1) wildlife resources are a public trust to be managed by governments for the benefit of all citizens;

2) unregulated commercial markets for wild game that decimate wildlife populations are eliminated;

3) allocation is by law, meaning that laws are developed by citizens and enforced by government agencies to regulate the proper use and management of wildlife;

4) opportunity for all, which means that every citizen has the freedom to view, hunt and fish, regardless of social or economic status;

5) wild game populations cannot be killed casually, but only for a legitimate purpose as defined by law;

6) wildlife will be considered an international resource because wildlife migrates across political boundaries; and

7) science is the proper basis for wildlife policy and management, not opinion or conjecture, in order to sustain wildlife populations.
 
I have a few of the same questions as well. I am going to reach out to Daryl Lutz the regional biologist. I am not sure how he will respond, but I had the same questions. Imagine what a tag might be worth if the hunter had 5 units to hunt and the archery season went from August 15th and ended in October.

I will be asking the same questions. What units are the tag good for? Do the tags eliminate any other tags the hunters draw? For example are there guys in the Hunt or in the past shooters club that are getting potentially 2 premium tags a year?

Think of this as well, unless someone has a different number, in 2018 the hunt raised just under $50,000 total. Think about that 80 premium lope tags that allows the holder to hunt multiple units and not use points or potentially take away from drawing a tag. Yet they only raised $50,000 total. That is not even $1000 a tag.

Hell if the state just labelled those tag NR and sold them all (which they would) the state would sell those 80 tags for $26,000... Now if we consider it takes say 7 points to draw.... That would raise the cost of the tags another $217 each.... Thus those same tags represent over $44,000 in revenue to the state. That is without considering some of the units take 10 points+ to draw.

Further of concern. 93% of the tags have went Nonresident and only 7% went to residents.
 
You greatly underestimate the projects just in Wyoming alone.
Water for Wildlife® currently has 194 completed/in-progress projects in Wyoming. See the project locations and information on the interactive google map! Click the colored project names to view photos of the project. If the project has trail camera photos, those are shown in a separate link next to the project name. Trail camera photos can also be viewed collectively under the Gallery tab.

Project #, Project Name
#2 Gates Draw Well
#4 Bandy Well
#5 Moneta Well
#6 12-Mile Well
#7 Allard Well
#8 Herbst Artesian Well
#10 Fish Draw Artesian Well
#11 Fraser Draw Windmill
#18 Hay Press Well
#19 Sheep Mountain Guzzler
#20 Birdseye Artesian Well
#21 Jack Morrow Hills Guzzler #1
#22 Cedar Canyon Guzzler #1
#23 Cedar Canyon Guzzler #2
#24 Cedar Canyon Guzzler #3
#25 Pine Canyon Guzzler #1
#26 Pine Canyon Guzzler #2
#27 Nine Mile Well
#28 Jack Morrow Hills Guzzler #2
#29 Clifton Guzzler
#30 Pennock Mountain Guzzler
#31 Reculusa Pipeline Well
#32 Freeman Draw Spring
#33 Black Mountain Guzzler
#41 Antelope Springs Reservoir
#46b Leon Baird (Three Square) Wetland Protection Fence
#50 Pennock Mountain Snow Fence II
#67 A-A Guzzler
#68 Powerline Project
#70 Happy Hollow
#87 Encampment River Guzzler #1
#88 Trail Creek Spring
#92 Encampment River Guzzler #2
#100 Friday the 13th Wetland Protection Fence
#101 Cottontail Wetland Protection Fence
#102 Elephant Rock Spring
#103 Cedar Springs Cross Ranch II
#104 E.O. Taylor Unit Windmill
#114 Diamond Springs Reservoir
#136 Pollard Spring Development
#137 Elkhorn Well Trough #1
#138 Elkhorn Well Trough #2
#147 Goshen Hole Guzzler
#151 Elkhorn Well Trough #3
#152 Elkhorn Well Trough #4
#154 Salt Creek Wetlands
#155 Rutherford Guzzler
#158 E.O. Taylor WHMA Spring Solar Renovation
#159 Blue Mesa #1 ; #159/160 trail camera photos
#160 Blue Mesa #2 ; #159/160 trail camera photos
#161 Strube Memorial WHA
#165 North Tipton Wetland Project
#166 Red Desert Wetland Project
#167 Little Twin Lakes
#168 Napierskie Reservoir
#173 Squaw Teats Guzzler #1 ; #173/174 trail camera photos
#174 Squaw Teats Guzzler #2 ; #173/174 trail camera photos
#175 Potter Butte Pipeline/Fence #1
#176 Potter Butte Pipeline/Fence #2
#182 Bear Creek Pipeline
#183 Mike Mathiot Wetlands
#189 Colter’s Pond
#191 Missouri John Spring Development
#192 Big Won Reservoir
#193 Rocky Mountain Guzzler
#195 Tatman Mountain Guzzler #1
#196 Tatman Mountain Guzzler #2
#211 Jelm Mountain Guzzler
#212 Lu Gillies Pipeline
#213 Pine Bluff Guzzler
#214 Pugsley Wildlife Facility
#215 Eversole Spring/Ponds
#216 Chicken Springs Development
#218 Potato Ridge Reservoir
#222 Ice Slough Riparian Fence-Green Mountain Commons #1
#223 Diagnus Well Wetland-Green Mountain Commons #2
#224 Horse Track Well/Riparian Fence-Green Mountain Commons #3
#226 Holgerson’s Guzzler
#227 Kennedy Farms Guzzler
#228 Indian Meadows Ranch Guzzler
#236 Rohweder Guzzler Project
#237 Brown Guzzler Project
#238 Baab Guzzler
#239 Splinter Farms Guzzler
#240 Springfield Ranch Wildlife/Livestock Watering Facility & Upland Habitat Enhancement
#241 Holt Guzzler
#242 Red Mill Guzzler
#247 Glenn Reservoir
#252 Red Butte & Tenmile Guzzlers ; #252 trail camera photos
#253 Faddis Ranch Water Development
#254 Buffalo Gulch Pipeline Project
#255 Jeffres Guzzler Project
#256 Soppe CRP Enhancement Project
#262 Lemaster Stock Tank Project
#263 Kinchen Wetland
#264 Community Wildlife Education Center
#265 WG&F Education Center
#266 Crescent Basin Water Pipeline
#268 Martin Guzzler
#269 Beaver Guzzler
Since you seem to be one of the few trying to defend the hunt. Can you tell me how much money the one shot hunt actually raises? What are the administrative cost for the hunt and of that money how much money actually goes directly to wildlife projects in WY?

Also can you address the report that less than 50% of all water for wildlife projects are in WY?

Can you answer what units the hunters can use the tag in?

Do each of the hunters field dress and process the game they take?

Can you answer when a past shooter is awarded a license are they the only one that can use that license? Or can they transfer that license to someone else?
 
Think of this as well, unless someone has a different number, in 2018 the hunt raised just under $50,000 total. Think about that 80 premium lope tags that allows the holder to hunt multiple units and not use points or potentially take away from drawing a tag. Yet they only raised $50,000 total. That is not even $1000 a tag.
I'm getting a bit confused with some of the numbers being thrown around. I thought there were only 24 hunters in the one-shot dealie? Has that recently changed?
 
I'm getting a bit confused with some of the numbers being thrown around. I thought there were only 24 hunters in the one-shot dealie? Has that recently changed?
The entire thing gets 80 tags to allocate. 24 tags go to the hunt competition. 56 tags are awarded to the past shooter club. The competition has 8, 3 man teams for the 24 tags. Then the other 56 tags goes to people who once participated in the hunt.
 
The entire thing gets 80 tags to allocate. 24 tags go to the hunt competition. 56 tags are awarded to the past shooter club. The competition has 8, 3 man teams for the 24 tags. Then the other 56 tags goes to people who once participated in the hunt.
Thanks for the clarification. ?
 
So here are a few questions I presented to the local office... I am interested in seeing the reply.

1. What units are the hunters allowed to hunt under the one shot tag? Are the tags unit specific or are they allowed to hunt any unit in the area? Any area in the state?

2. If a person is awarded a tag under the one shot hunt, do they still get to participate in the normal draw process? If they drew another tag in the state must they choose or do they keep both?

3. At the end of the hunt does the game and fish have any account as to how many pronghorn were taken from each unit?

4. When a person is awarded a tag under the one shot, are they the only person who can use that tag or can the person awarded the tag transfer that tag to someone else?

5. Does the game and Fish get any accounting from the One Shot hunt? Do we know how much money it raises? What percent of that money is used on Wildlife Projects?
 
No problem. Trying to wrap my head around the event myself. As I answer a question more questions pop up.
I covered WY & six other states for my In The Field column in Rocky Mt. Game & Fish magazine for many years. Wrote up the One-Shot hunt several times, in fact. Since I retired a couple years ago, tho, I haven't kept up much on what's happening in all in the western states.
 
The entire thing gets 80 tags to allocate. 24 tags go to the hunt competition. 56 tags are awarded to the past shooter club. The competition has 8, 3 man teams for the 24 tags. Then the other 56 tags goes to people who once participated in the hunt.
Maybe that is the solution, get rid of the 56 tags....
 
@elks96 There are 5 areas 65, 66, 67, 68, &106. The licenses are area specific, but good for the whole season.(notice these are all premium antelope areas) Licenses are allocated by area based on how many licenses are in each of the five areas. These licenses are not counted against the individuals yearly quota and the One Shot claims past shooters must apply for a tag in the drawing and are not eligible for one of the 56 tags if they draw. I was told an individual who participated in the hunt, did have two tags in one year. I don't know how often that has happened.

I would be interested to know if G&F keep track of licenses filled. My guess on that is no.
 
I covered WY & six other states for my In The Field column in Rocky Mt. Game & Fish magazine for many years. Wrote up the One-Shot hunt several times, in fact. Since I retired a couple years ago, tho, I haven't kept up much on what's happening in all in the western states.
I would love to see your One Shot articles and how you dealt with the event and it's complexities.
 
I would love to see your One Shot articles and how you dealt with the event and it's complexities.
The In The Field column wasn't op-ed in nature. It was more of the reporting type, i.e. in re: to the One-Shot, announcing the winners, etc.
 
Maybe that is the solution, get rid of the 56 tags....
Another suggestion would be to pare it back to 40 tags per year from 80. 24 for the One Shot and leaving 16 for the Past Shooters club. The advantage of this is it keeps a lot more dollars flowing from those Past Shooters who have donation money to keep flowing into all the Water Projects, Scholarships and Outdoor Education Workshops. The current Task Force is looking into this hunt and this was my suggestion to have it cut back to 40 rags per year a 50% cutback from the current allotted 80 licenses. You can view the water projects here, as a volunteer along with many friends I can vouch they are a significant benefit to Wyoming Wildlife. I would hate to see that money stop flowing. http://www.waterforwildlife.org/projects/wyoming/
 
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Since you seem to be one of the few trying to defend the hunt. Can you tell me how much money the one shot hunt actually raises? What are the administrative cost for the hunt and of that money how much money actually goes directly to wildlife projects in WY?

Also can you address the report that less than 50% of all water for wildlife projects are in WY?

Can you answer what units the hunters can use the tag in?

Do each of the hunters field dress and process the game they take?

Can you answer when a past shooter is awarded a license are they the only one that can use that license? Or can they transfer that license to someone else?
You need to contact the One Shot Club directly and ask them. I’m sure they are a 501 (3C) but I can tell you the average cost is $5000 per water project. They have contributed just in Wyoming over 400 water projects so that’s about $2 Million and this doesn’t even bring in the Scholarship, Outdoor Education workshops or the Museum costs. I have personally helped with some of these water projects along with many friends and I can tell you as a volunteer I would hate to see all this water money stop flowing into Wyoming. They do have far reaching impacts, especially in large drought years like this year, literally thousands of big game animals use these water projects.

From modest beginnings as a grass-roots organization, Water For Wildlife’s Board of Directors have always ensured that every donated dollar goes directly to funding in our three core areas:

WATER PROJECTS:
Fueled by the commitment of sponsors and donors, Water For Wildlife has proudly funded water projects for over 35 years. To donate to funding water projects, designate “WATER PROJECT” with our Donate Button below.

EDUCATION & INTERNSHIPS
Our foundation has funded educational scholarships in the past and now has a focus on providing hands on experience through our internship program. If you would like to donate to our educational program, designate “EDUCATION” with our Donate Button below.

WILDLIFE CONSERVATION MUSEUM
The Water for Wildlife Conservation Museum is a resource for learning how water projects function on the landscape, the history of conservation, and how species benefit from conservation. To donate to the museum, designate “MUSEUM” with our Donate Button below. http://www.waterforwildlife.org/donations/
 
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The In The Field column wasn't op-ed in nature. It was more of the reporting type, i.e. in re: to the One-Shot, announcing the winners, etc.
This is what the New York Times a small out east newspaper said almost 50 years ago. It is such a small deal as everyone here thinks.

LANDER, Wyo. — In Lander, warm‐hearted people and a magnificent, awesome land combine to move a visitor to superlatives and to leave him sad at the parting.

A short time ago Lander was visited by teams of hunters from all over the United States who were taking part in the community's 28th annual one‐shot antelope hunt.

New teams are entered each year but individuals who have, been team members often return and there are many well known faces among them.

This year the Danish tenor, Lauritz Melchior, returned for the 21st time time and there was General Jimmy Doolittle and Gen. Joe Foss and Jack Armstrong (beloved by radio fans of yesteryear) and Roy Rogers and the governors of Wyoming, Colorado, Utah and Washington and astronauts Eugene Cernan, Ronald Evans, Jack Lousma, Jack Smitt and Russell Schweickart and William Camp, the controller of the United States currency.

And present for the victory dinner at the Pronghorn Lodge of the Elks Club, where the food was always excellent, was Herman St. Clair, chief of the Wind River Shoshones, a wise and generous man who with his wife, Daisy, received a standing ovation as William Smith, a director of the one‐shot organization paid tribute to him.
“I thank all of you. It makes me feel good,” said the aging chief.
There was laughter also as the team members who had failed to get an antelope with the one shot allowed them made their public excuses to the assembled hundreds after being urged to do so by the One‐Shot Organization's president, William Bush, and more laughter when they donned female garments and danced with the Indian women, an act symbolic of their failure as hunters. (The Wyoming team led by Gov. Stan Hathaway had won the event and was privileged to sit out the dance).

Participating in the ceremonies before and after the hunt the men and women and children of the Shoshones brought their traditions to the affair recalling a time when this land was not scarred by highways, when its skies were clear, its rivers clean and its open spaces seemingly endless.
And at the victory dinner there was a curious and moving blend of old and new for as Darwin and Sandra St. Clair led the Shoshones in ancient song and dance one was aware that the most daring hunters of the century were there: The astronauts whose quest for knowledge in space has demanded courage, discipline and dedication unsurpassed in America's history.https://www.nytimes.com/1971/10/03/archives/wood-field-and-stream-at-wyomings-oneshot-antelope-hunt-shoshones.html

 
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This is what the New York Times a small out east newspaper said almost 50 years ago. It is such a small deal as everyone here thinks.

LANDER, Wyo. — In Lander, warm‐hearted people and a magnificent, awesome land combine to move a visitor to superlatives and to leave him sad at the parting.

A short time ago Lander was visited by teams of hunters from all over the United States who were taking part in the community's 28th annual one‐shot antelope hunt.

New teams are entered each year but individuals who have, been team members often return and there are many well known faces among them.

This year the Danish tenor, Lauritz Melchior, returned for the 21st time time and there was General Jimmy Doolittle and Gen. Joe Foss and Jack Armstrong (beloved by radio fans of yesteryear) and Roy Rogers and the governors of Wyoming, Colorado, Utah and Washington and astronauts Eugene Cernan, Ronald Evans, Jack Lousma, Jack Smitt and Russell Schweickart and William Camp, the controller of the United States currency.

And present for the victory dinner at the Pronghorn Lodge of the Elks Club, where the food was always excellent, was Herman St. Clair, chief of the Wind River Shoshones, a wise and generous man who with his wife, Daisy, received a standing ovation as William Smith, a director of the one‐shot organization paid tribute to him.
“I thank all of you. It makes me feel good,” said the aging chief.
There was laughter also as the team members who had failed to get an antelope with the one shot allowed them made their public excuses to the assembled hundreds after being urged to do so by the One‐Shot Organization's president, William Bush, and more laughter when they donned female garments and danced with the Indian women, an act symbolic of their failure as hunters. (The Wyoming team led by Gov. Stan Hathaway had won the event and was privileged to sit out the dance).

Participating in the ceremonies before and after the hunt the men and women and children of the Shoshones brought their traditions to the affair recalling a time when this land was not scarred by highways, when its skies were clear, its rivers clean and its open spaces seemingly endless.
And at the victory dinner there was a curious and moving blend of old and new for as Darwin and Sandra St. Clair led the Shoshones in ancient song and dance one was aware that the most daring hunters of the century were there: The astronauts whose quest for knowledge in space has demanded courage, discipline and dedication unsurpassed in America's history.https://www.nytimes.com/1971/10/03/archives/wood-field-and-stream-at-wyomings-oneshot-antelope-hunt-shoshones.html

BFD...for reference it was only 16 years prior to that article being written that Rosa Parks told a bus driver to pound sand.

Only 3 years prior to when that article was written, MLK was assassinated.

So, it would come as no shock such a "glowing" review of the one shot hunt was written in 1971. Somehow I don't think a similar article would find that glowing review in 2021. I mean a real, factual article that would be willing to talk about the "stag" events where women aren't allowed. Or talk about the wives of the "shooters" being taken on shopping sprees and participating in art/painting classes. I didn't see much about the smoking jackets and cognac, either. What about having to have a "guide" to make sure nobody cheats, or so that they can determine if a wounded animal needs to be shot again? Anyone want to talk about the ethics of a hunting competition? Sounds like some top notch sportsmen that can't even determine if an animal needs an additional shot to close the deal.

Only way to save face and salvage any shred of credibility that this "hunt" pretended to have, is why women are (allegedly) going to be allowed to participate. Being dragged, kicking and screaming into 2021 is no badge of honor. Its pathetic, and a disgrace to the sport, fellow sportsmen, and most importantly our Wyoming Wildlife.

Does nothing positive for the sport, nothing. If people think water projects are so important, those big donors wouldn't have to be bribed with great pronghorn tags to open their wallets.

Lets get one thing straight, it was a pile of chit in 1971 and 50 years later, its an even bigger pile of chit.
 
They have contributed just in Wyoming over 400 water projects so that’s about $2 Million and this doesn’t even bring in the Scholarship, Outdoor Education workshops or the Museum costs.
Sorry, not correct.

"Water for Wildlife® currently has 194 completed/in-progress projects in Wyoming. See the project locations and information on the interactive google map!"

"There was laughter also as the team members who had failed to get an antelope with the one shot allowed them made their public excuses to the assembled hundreds after being urged to do so by the One‐Shot Organization's president, William Bush, and more laughter when they donned female garments and danced with the Indian women, an act symbolic of their failure as hunters."

The most absurd thing about the statement above is they were still doing this two years when they were outed in National media and Gov. Gorden made it clear they had to change their ways.

It is telling, but not surprising to me that you support this event.
 
I would love to see your One Shot articles and how you dealt with the event and it's complexities.
The In The Field column wasn't op-ed in nature. It was more of the reporting type, i.e. in re: to the One-Shot, announcing the winners, etc.
I apologise in advance because I was being facetious. No outdoors writer, to my knowledge, ever did their homework and accurately reported on the One Shot event.
 
So again, do you know anything about the amount of money raised by the hunt it self vs cost?

looking at mountain pursuits data, shows the hunt raised less than $50,000 in 2018. Just as my math shows the state could make that much money on their very own.

I think you fail to realize that no one is attacking the water for wildlife organization, no one has said it is a bad group. But the manner in which this hunt and the tags are allocated is the issue. It has nothing to do with the cause it supports, and everything to do with using a public resource that is meant for public consumption, for anything but public hunting opportunity.
 
This organization is just a gateway for someone else to start something similar. It cant happen again. There are plenty of ways to raise money for projects.

2 weeks ago local people used their personal trucks/fuel/time and donated dumpsters to clean up some bad lands where people toss refrigerators to pop cans. Shall we award all the participants a tag? No just the fact of doing a good deed says so much more.

How many of the one shot participants do such projects? I am guessing the outcome is very low. The sense of entitlement to tags is ridiculous.
 
Sorry, not correct.

"Water for Wildlife® currently has 194 completed/in-progress projects in Wyoming. See the project locations and information on the interactive google map!"

"There was laughter also as the team members who had failed to get an antelope with the one shot allowed them made their public excuses to the assembled hundreds after being urged to do so by the One‐Shot Organization's president, William Bush, and more laughter when they donned female garments and danced with the Indian women, an act symbolic of their failure as hunters."

The most absurd thing about the statement above is they were still doing this two years when they were outed in National media and Gov. Gorden made it clear they had to change their ways.

It is telling, but not surprising to me that you support this event.
What certainly is amazing is the Beverly Hillbillies we have around this MM forum who actually think it’s a good idea to end a 75 year old tradition and event publicised worldwide with global coverage. The oldest hunting sport event in North America which has Senators, Congressmen, Governors, Astronauts and the highest levels of Government and they want to do away with this. Very telling of your character but more telling of your IGNORANCE.
 
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So again, do you know anything about the amount of money raised by the hunt it self vs cost?

looking at mountain pursuits data, shows the hunt raised less than $50,000 in 2018. Just as my math shows the state could make that much money on their very own.

I think you fail to realize that no one is attacking the water for wildlife organization, no one has said it is a bad group. But the manner in which this hunt and the tags are allocated is the issue. It has nothing to do with the cause it supports, and everything to do with using a public resource that is meant for public consumption, for anything but public hunting opportunity.
Again…… All you need to do is contact the One Shot and ask for a copy of their 501 C3. They generate far more money than just the One Shot as it’s a three pronged charity and most of the money comes from the wealthy donors of the Past Shooters Club and donors to the Water for Wildlife projects and not just the One Shot Club. As has been mentioned before even if this event ended it will NOT improve resident hunter odds as these licenses are NOT from the available hunting license pool. The Biologist has stated this. All you are doing is taking away from some very beneficial projects mostly in the West from sponsors and donors and cancelling a major political, community, and cultural and historical event without gaining even one more license for resident hunters. I agree the event should be cutback but asking to end it is just Sad for all the wildlife, scholarships, outdoor workshop participants and cultural traditions spanning 75 years. I just pulled up their 2019 form and it shows just for year 2019 they brought in $266,000 in Revenue and spent $68,000 on salaried employees and spent the rest on projects. Remember this is just Water for Wildlife and doesn’t include the other two charities.
 
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This is what the New York Times a small out east newspaper said almost 50 years ago. It is such a small deal as everyone here thinks.

LANDER, Wyo. — In Lander, warm‐hearted people and a magnificent, awesome land combine to move a visitor to superlatives and to leave him sad at the parting.

A short time ago Lander was visited by teams of hunters from all over the United States who were taking part in the community's 28th annual one‐shot antelope hunt.

New teams are entered each year but individuals who have, been team members often return and there are many well known faces among them.

This year the Danish tenor, Lauritz Melchior, returned for the 21st time time and there was General Jimmy Doolittle and Gen. Joe Foss and Jack Armstrong (beloved by radio fans of yesteryear) and Roy Rogers and the governors of Wyoming, Colorado, Utah and Washington and astronauts Eugene Cernan, Ronald Evans, Jack Lousma, Jack Smitt and Russell Schweickart and William Camp, the controller of the United States currency.

And present for the victory dinner at the Pronghorn Lodge of the Elks Club, where the food was always excellent, was Herman St. Clair, chief of the Wind River Shoshones, a wise and generous man who with his wife, Daisy, received a standing ovation as William Smith, a director of the one‐shot organization paid tribute to him.
“I thank all of you. It makes me feel good,” said the aging chief.
There was laughter also as the team members who had failed to get an antelope with the one shot allowed them made their public excuses to the assembled hundreds after being urged to do so by the One‐Shot Organization's president, William Bush, and more laughter when they donned female garments and danced with the Indian women, an act symbolic of their failure as hunters. (The Wyoming team led by Gov. Stan Hathaway had won the event and was privileged to sit out the dance).

Participating in the ceremonies before and after the hunt the men and women and children of the Shoshones brought their traditions to the affair recalling a time when this land was not scarred by highways, when its skies were clear, its rivers clean and its open spaces seemingly endless.
And at the victory dinner there was a curious and moving blend of old and new for as Darwin and Sandra St. Clair led the Shoshones in ancient song and dance one was aware that the most daring hunters of the century were there: The astronauts whose quest for knowledge in space has demanded courage, discipline and dedication unsurpassed in America's history.https://www.nytimes.com/1971/10/03/archives/wood-field-and-stream-at-wyomings-oneshot-antelope-hunt-shoshones.html

That is similar to the items I wrote -- basically a recap of the 'baseball game' and not what goes on in the clubhouse, the front offices or the players' homes.
 
Sir that 75 year old tradition started as bragging fest around a campfire, how noble. Only this year are females allowed to hunt, again how noble.
Make them draw the tags and keep all the money in Wyoming.

And now we're hillbillies, like that is a derogatory term.
 
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The One Shot Antelope allows women hunters. Are hunters outraged the Wyoming Women’s Foundation now blatantly discriminates against all Genders except women? Or is there a Double Standard here. I’m sure you all want to fight for all those TQ+ and are trying to get this event shut down. It has been gong on since 2013 so now almost a decade. https://wywf.org/antelope-hunt-media/
 
The One Shot Antelope allows women hunters. Are hunters outraged the Wyoming Women’s Foundation now blatantly discriminates against all Genders except women? Or is there a Double Standard here. I’m sure you all want to fight for all those TQ+ and are trying to get this event shut down. It has been gong on since 2013 so now almost a decade. https://wywf.org/antelope-hunt-media/
Calling people ignorant, and hillbillies is only entrenching those against the hunt.

Traditions change, times change. One pain a time 80 tags for antelope was not a big deal. Today they are a huge deal. Sorry but the tradition is marked with sexism and racism. Not anything to brag about at all.

the hunt needs to end and if the projects are all that great then they will stay raise money with ease.

there are many nonprofits that raise significantly more money and do more projects without taking away opportunity from other hunters.
 
Asking to try and stop the oldest hunting tradition and hunt sport event in North America with a mere editorial letter to the editor shows your Naivety. This event has 75 years of Governors, Senators, Indian Chiefs, Congressmen, Astronauts, movie stars and very powerful public figures. You think all they do is hunt antelope, but many issues affecting the West and problems and Western issues are discussed and networked while at these events. The largest political organizations in Wyoming ie the Stockgrowers Association and the Oil and Gas Commission along with the Governor attend and coordinate these events. It’s far more about Politics than a few antelope which wouldn’t help you anyways as these are earmarked licenses and won’t help your Naivety of what’s really going on at this event.
 
The rich and famous are first in line to grab the tags sounds great... How and Gods name can any one sit here and justify it was okay to cut tags to the public and still give the one shot group there full allotment of tags let alone one tag should be ran out of office or fired from there jobs.... But like all ways no one will be held accountable....
 
Again…… All you need to do is contact the One Shot and ask for a copy of their 501 C3. They generate far more money than just the One Shot as it’s a three pronged charity and most of the money comes from the wealthy donors of the Past Shooters Club and donors to the Water for Wildlife projects and not just the One Shot Club. As has been mentioned before even if this event ended it will NOT improve resident hunter odds as these licenses are NOT from the available hunting license pool. The Biologist has stated this. All you are doing is taking away from some very beneficial projects mostly in the West from sponsors and donors and cancelling a major political, community, and cultural and historical event without gaining even one more license for resident hunters. I agree the event should be cutback but asking to end it is just Sad for all the wildlife, scholarships, outdoor workshop participants and cultural traditions spanning 75 years. I just pulled up their 2019 form and it shows just for year 2019 they brought in $266,000 in Revenue and spent $68,000 on salaried employees and spent the rest on projects. Remember this is just Water for Wildlife and doesn’t include the other two charities.
You're full of crap.

Absolutely there would be additional licenses available for all hunters if they did away with the one shot hunt.

Enough with the lies.
 
You're full of crap.

Absolutely there would be additional licenses available for all hunters if they did away with the one shot hunt.

Enough with the lies.
Perhaps it is you who is full of Shiite.

“The WGFD biologist in the area has stated that the One Shot tag allocation has no affect on the draw tag allocation. He has stated in the past, at Commission meetings that the draw tag numbers for the units in the One Shot are unaffected by the tags given out at the One Shot. In his words even if they got rid of all One Shot tags the draw tag numbers in those units would not change.”

Sounds fairly clear to me he doesn’t think it will have more licenses available in those areas even if they cancelled the One Shot.
 
Perhaps it is you who is full of Shiite.

“The WGFD biologist in the area has stated that the One Shot tag allocation has no affect on the draw tag allocation. He has stated in the past, at Commission meetings that the draw tag numbers for the units in the One Shot are unaffected by the tags given out at the One Shot. In his words even if they got rid of all One Shot tags the draw tag numbers in those units would not change.”

Sounds fairly clear to me he doesn’t think it will have more licenses available in those areas even if they cancelled the One Shot.
Not being a Wy resident I don't have a dog in this fight but if you think the Biologist for the area isn't towing the company line you're crazy. Even if he was 100% against it he darn sure wouldn't come out and publicly say that especially if he enjoys his job.
 
Perhaps it is you who is full of Shiite.

“The WGFD biologist in the area has stated that the One Shot tag allocation has no affect on the draw tag allocation. He has stated in the past, at Commission meetings that the draw tag numbers for the units in the One Shot are unaffected by the tags given out at the One Shot. In his words even if they got rid of all One Shot tags the draw tag numbers in those units would not change.”

Sounds fairly clear to me he doesn’t think it will have more licenses available in those areas even if they cancelled the One Shot.

Jason Hunter can claim anything he wants but its all BS. He told Jeff and I in a meeting with Mike Choma and Scott Edberg that the tags were taken into account on the total allocation for every unit. Meaning, these tags ARE impacting management decisions and unit wide quota's.

I don't expect you to savvy that as simple things like tag allocations seem pretty complex to you.
 
The rich and famous are first in line to grab the tags sounds great... How and Gods name can any one sit here and justify it was okay to cut tags to the public and still give the one shot group there full allotment of tags let alone one tag should be ran out of office or fired from there jobs.... But like all ways no one will be held accountable....

Ask Buzz. He testifies in support of 1shot.

Sure, he'll spin it, but while JM seems to be trying to abolish it completely, his buddy Buzz, PUBLICALLY(ask him to publish his actual testimony) was fine with a "compromise".

One shot is wrong because it is a TAG GRAB.
Not because the tags go to rich people, or famous people, or politicians.
Not because of racism, or sexism.

It's wrong because it TAKES tags from the public at large. The STAKEHOLDERS of the wildlife of Wyoming.

Carve outs, be they one shot, outfitters tags, landowner tags, commission tags, "conservation" tags, ALL violate the principles of wildlife management/conservation WE ALL agree with and support. They ALL should be done away with.
 
Asking to try and stop the oldest hunting tradition and hunt sport event in North America with a mere editorial letter to the editor shows your Naivety. This event has 75 years of Governors, Senators, Indian Chiefs, Congressmen, Astronauts, movie stars and very powerful public figures. You think all they do is hunt antelope, but many issues affecting the West and problems and Western issues are discussed and networked while at these events. The largest political organizations in Wyoming ie the Stockgrowers Association and the Oil and Gas Commission along with the Governor attend and coordinate these events. It’s far more about Politics than a few antelope which wouldn’t help you anyways as these are earmarked licenses and won’t help your Naivety of what’s really going on at this

Not a resident of Wyoming but I do hunt there nearly every year. I believe there is benefit to One-shot but tossing this list of "elites" out is a slap in the face to every hunter that must go through the application process. If they are true to the cause then these elites should unequivocally believe in following the same process as every applicant and that includes tag allocations including cuts. The one-shot crew should use this as a means of promotion not how it is presently being portrayed. Use it as a show of the trials and education of the species. This sort of preferential treatment will be the demise of the 75 year tradition.
 
If anyone believes that the One Shot tags don't effect the area allocations, I'm at a loss of words. Apparently, these 5 areas near Lander can have a combined "over-issue" of 80 tags with no effect on antelope populations? Considering that is true, there must be no antelope killed by anyone in the One Shot event.

I was at the legislative meeting in Lander when then Director Talbot testified to the committee that the One Shot tags did indeed effect opportunity for sportsman in those areas.
 
Not being a Wy resident I don't have a dog in this fight but if you think the Biologist for the area isn't towing the company line you're crazy. Even if he was 100% against it he darn sure wouldn't come out and publicly say that especially if he enjoys his job.

Thats exactly the point i brought up at the task force meeting in Powell
 
Asking to try and stop the oldest hunting tradition and hunt sport event in North America with a mere editorial letter to the editor shows your Naivety. This event has 75 years of Governors, Senators, Indian Chiefs, Congressmen, Astronauts, movie stars and very powerful public figures. You think all they do is hunt antelope, but many issues affecting the West and problems and Western issues are discussed and networked while at these events. The largest political organizations in Wyoming ie the Stockgrowers Association and the Oil and Gas Commission along with the Governor attend and coordinate these events. It’s far more about Politics than a few antelope which wouldn’t help you anyways as these are earmarked licenses and won’t help your Naivety of what’s really going on at this event.
AKA “The Bilderberg group of the west”
 
Asking to try and stop the oldest hunting tradition and hunt sport event in North America with a mere editorial letter to the editor shows your Naivety. This event has 75 years of Governors, Senators, Indian Chiefs, Congressmen, Astronauts, movie stars and very powerful public figures. You think all they do is hunt antelope, but many issues affecting the West and problems and Western issues are discussed and networked while at these events. The largest political organizations in Wyoming ie the Stockgrowers Association and the Oil and Gas Commission along with the Governor attend and coordinate these events. It’s far more about Politics than a few antelope which wouldn’t help you anyways as these are earmarked licenses and won’t help your Naivety of what’s really going on at this event.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make. 50,000 dollars in tags not offered to the public so that politics can take place. Wouldn't this be considered wrong regardless of the resource.
 
I have no idea what point you are trying to make. 50,000 dollars in tags not offered to the public so that politics can take place. Wouldn't this be considered wrong regardless of the resource.
It’s not $50,000 in tags, it’s literally $Millions of dollars of funding which has taken place over its 75+ year history funding the Water for Wildlife projects, scholarships, Outdoor education workshops, a Museum but also the oldest sporting hunt event in North America, a rich hunting, cultural and historical event. This is literally the Super Bowl of Wyoming hunting and many very important people meet at the event and projects all over the West are discussed, networked and political decisions reached at events like these. I do agree the event should be cut back from 80 to 40 licenses. Cancelling the event will not help the public as the Biologist has testified numerous times. 80 tags spread out over 5 areas is only 16 tags in 5 areas. There will NOT be anymore licenses allocated in these areas as the biologist factors them in as earmarked or set aside licenses totally independent and separate from the public license pool. Perhaps we should now cancel the Cheyenne Frontier Days or better yet I’m sure Wyoming Cowboy football is a corrupt and special interest event so maybe we should just cancel that. Those who don’t see the overall value in these events are burying their head in the sand.
 
Hope this so called superbowel has commercials. I would rather watch those than this crap show
 
Hope this so called superbowel has commercials. I would rather watch those than this crap show
I prefer the Cheerleaders, especially now they can compete.:cool::cool::cool::cool:
8224CC3B-570D-4B91-91AE-C9EB8285AB55.jpeg
 
Asking to try and stop the oldest hunting tradition and hunt sport event in North America with a mere editorial letter to the editor shows your Naivety. This event has 75 years of Governors, Senators, Indian Chiefs, Congressmen, Astronauts, movie stars and very powerful public figures. You think all they do is hunt antelope, but many issues affecting the West and problems and Western issues are discussed and networked while at these events. The largest political organizations in Wyoming ie the Stockgrowers Association and the Oil and Gas Commission along with the Governor attend and coordinate these events. It’s far more about Politics than a few antelope which wouldn’t help you anyways as these are earmarked licenses and won’t help your Naivety of what’s really going on at this event.
HAHA. I am sorry but the entire purpose of the letter is to inform people. I could careless if it is the oldest event. It is wrong and should not continue. I could also careless of who the rich and famous were that participated, it holds no value...

The letter to the editor is not meant to cancel the event, but to inform the many who do not see a downside. It is to provide balance to the rhetoric being produced by the local media.

And your final argument is exactly why the event must go.... It is about politics! It is not about management, it is not about tradition, it is not about public opportunity, it is not about food, ecology, etc. It is not about feeding families, not about about daughters and fathers, not about moms and sons... It is a Political scam in which we foolishly give up a very valuable resource for??? Wait what is it for? Politics!!!

Thanks for making this BS event even harder to stomach!!!
 
It’s not $50,000 in tags, it’s literally $Millions of dollars of funding which has taken place over its 75+ year history funding the Water for Wildlife projects, scholarships, Outdoor education workshops, a Museum but also the oldest sporting hunt event in North America, a rich hunting, cultural and historical event. This is literally the Super Bowl of Wyoming hunting and many very important people meet at the event and projects all over the West are discussed, networked and political decisions reached at events like these. I do agree the event should be cut back from 80 to 40 licenses. Cancelling the event will not help the public as the Biologist has testified numerous times. 80 tags spread out over 5 areas is only 16 tags in 5 areas. There will NOT be anymore licenses allocated in these areas as the biologist factors them in as earmarked or set aside licenses totally independent and separate from the public license pool. Perhaps we should now cancel the Cheyenne Frontier Days or better yet I’m sure Wyoming Cowboy football is a corrupt and special interest event so maybe we should just cancel that. Those who don’t see the overall value in these events are burying their head in the sand.
Seriously, show me the math. What did the 80 tags raise this year at the shoot? Not all the other grant money combined, not all the other donations, but at the shoot?

As for the biologist, how can you not increase public harvest and public use if the tags are given back to the public? He is a liar, opportunity will increase...
 
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Seriously, show me the math. What did the 80 tags raise this year at the shoot? Not all the other grant money combined, not all the other donations, but at the shoot?

As for the biologist, how can you not increase public harvest and public use if the tags are given back to the public? He is a liar, opportunity will increase...
You cannot separate the events, the Executive Directors of the One Shot Foundation control collectively all the funds. As I posted earlier $266,000 in 2019 alone just for one of the charities. As I understand it the $50,000 you keep referencing goes to Wyoming Game and Fish for the license sales, most of them at NR prices. Calling the Wyoming Game and Fish liars will surely help your case. Hmmmmm…….????? BTW, politics is only a side benefit, the tradition, cultural and historic value along with $Millions pumped into Wildlife projects, scholarships, Outdoor Education Workshops and the majority of Lander City officials participating and your little letter likely won’t even see the editorial page, though good luck in moving into Wyoming as a newbie and trying to disrupt 75 years of tradition, now allowing women and veterans participation. I’m sure it will help your little letter do well. LMFAO.
 
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highfastflyer. Respectfully, so the family and heritage tradition of other sports persons are negate with this situation with emphasis to the crowd you refer? Truly, I believe "in-the-cause" but there is morality and logic missing from the one-shot argument for tag allocation. I cannot encourage them enough to reconsider how they proceed with tag procurement/allocation in the future.

Al
 
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highfastflyer. Respectfully, so the family and heritage tradition of other sports persons are negate with this situation with emphasis to the crowd you refer? Truly, I believe "in-the-cause" but there is morality and logic missing from the one-shot argument for tag allocation. I cannot encourage them enough to reconsider how they proceed with tag procurement/allocation in the future.

Al
Respectfully, it won’t have any effect upon license allocation, even if the event was Cancelled. Cancelling the event will not help the public as the Biologist has testified numerous times. 80 tags spread out over 5 areas is only 16 tags in 5 areas. There will NOT be anymore licenses allocated in these areas as the biologist factors them in as earmarked or set aside licenses totally independent and separate from the public license pool. All cancelling the Event would do is take away substantially from the $266,000 per year for the Water for Wildlife projects, truly a Sad thing if it were to occur. Now with women and many veterans maybe that fits your Logic and Morality test.
 
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$266,000 isn't that much money in the grand scheme.

Utah routinley sells a single deer tag for that every year. If you believe in pimping wildlife for projects, I'm sure Wyoming can do much better than 80 antelope to raise $266,000.
 
They take 80 tags away from hunters, that does affect 80 people that don't have the thousands to participate in the One Shot.
Tell those 80 hunters it has no affect.

Did you have the "honor " of dressing as a woman for losing ?
 
They take 80 tags away from hunters, that does affect 80 people that don't have the thousands to participate in the One Shot.
Tell those 80 hunters it has no affect.

Did you have the "honor " of dressing as a woman for losing ?
No, the Biologist has repeatedly said they have NO effect upon the Limited quota draw pool as they are earmarked or set aside licenses. If the Game and Fish Commission cancelled the 7 Commissioners from donating out their 8 licenses each for raffle would those licenses make it back into the Limited Quota pool? We both know the answer to that. I do agree the One Shot should get a 50% cutback in licenses but 16 licenses in 5 areas will not have a big effect on herd numbers and as the Biologist said it will have NO net gain in licenses for the limited quota pool of licenses just as if one Commissioner decided to not donate their allotted licenses per year then 8 more hunters will never gain any additional quotas added into the pool of licenses. I personally have never hunted One Shot but me and a bunch of friends enjoy participating as volunteers in the Water for Wildlife projects and it’s a very beneficial program for wildlife. Now with women and veterans annually participating it is a great public event, would be sad to see wildlife lose out if it was cancelled.
 
I think the argument that the biologist makes about not affecting the quota draw pool is disingenuous at best. Of course, if you draw the line at the system of commissioners being allocated licenses, it holds water. But that is the crux of it. Wyoming sets aside licenses for politicians or leaders purportedly for the benefit of incoming dollars to wildlife. It’s certainly a questionable law/practice from a hunter’s perspective though. Far better to raise the cost of licenses to hunters that beg for a chance at fair chase. The laws of supply and demand could handle any funding problem they have. The few cases of $200K here and there that these programs generate are nothing compared to a 5% increase in license costs across 100,000+ allocated hunter licenses. Yeah, you can always find some hunters that grump about the cost of licenses- but I believe the majority of hunters would take the greater cost for greater opportunity. And those increased dollars could fund the water projects/etc.

That said, the world doesn’t come to an end because of these crony allocations. It’s just optically unattractive.
 
You know why cowboys don’t get circumcised , so they have a place to put their chew when there brushing their teeth.
 
I do agree the One Shot should get a 50% cutback in licenses but 16 licenses in 5 areas will not have a big effect on herd numbers and as the
I mentioned this once before in this thread: BIOLOGICALLY, the take of X# of BUCKS spread over a large area is meaningless as far as 'herd numbers' are concerned. Any remaining bucks will breed the does -- the REAL key to herd size. This entire issue is one of social engineering, i.e. all about policy & politics, not biology.
 
80 / 5 = 16 more tags per hunt area, hardly insignificant for those applying in those 5 units. Surely, it doesn't change herd numbers, just opportunity for buck tags.
 
I mentioned this once before in this thread: BIOLOGICALLY, the take of X# of BUCKS spread over a large area is meaningless as far as 'herd numbers' are concerned. Any remaining bucks will breed the does -- the REAL key to herd size. This entire issue is one of social engineering, i.e. all about policy & politics, not biology.
I have an idea: since biologically it's meaningless to spread X# of buck tags over a large area, why don't we just add buck tags state wide to every antelope area? Genius!

The logic being used by some in this thread to justify those 80 One Shot tags is laughable.
 
I have an idea: since biologically it's meaningless to spread X# of buck tags over a large area, why don't we just add buck tags state wide to every antelope area? Genius!

The logic being used by some in this thread to justify those 80 One Shot tags is laughable.
I didn't justify anything. I stated a scientific fact not a logical one.

In reality, more buck tags could probably be added and still not affect REPRODUCTION, the key to 'herd numbers.' It all comes down to additive/compensatory mortality rates & their effect on any given population. Those so concerned about herd numbers should be lobbying to eliminate the killing of does in WY.
 
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I didn't justify anything. I stated a scientific fact not a logical one.

In reality, more buck tags could be probably be added and still not affect REPRODUCTION, the key to 'herd numbers.' It all comes down to additive/compensatory mortality rates & their effect on any given population. Those so concerned about herd numbers should be lobbying to eliminate the killing of does in WY.
Honestly, you're making assumptions as to how the herds are already managed. The real argument is do One Shot tags take opportunity away from hunters. There is only one answer to that and it's yes.
 
Honestly, you're making assumptions as to how the herds are already managed. The real argument is do One Shot tags take opportunity away from hunters. There is only one answer to that and it's yes.
Taadaaa.... That's exactly what I said.. it's a policy/political problem & has NOTHING to do with 'herd numbers.'

And no assumptions made...biology is biology regardless of the species & location. If those 80 tags are bad for the population, putting them in the general draw would amount to the same thing.
 
80 / 5 = 16 more tags per hunt area, hardly insignificant for those applying in those 5 units. Surely, it doesn't change herd numbers, just opportunity for buck tags.
No as the Game and Fish has repeatedly stated it will not net any gain of licenses in the limited quota pool as the licenses are earmarked or set aside especially just for the One Shot Hunt.

”WGFD biologist in the area has stated, that the One Shot tag allocation has no affect on the draw tag allocation. He has stated in the past, at Commission meetings that the draw tag numbers for the units in the One Shot are unaffected by the tags given out at the One Shot. In his words even if they got rid of all One Shot tags the draw tag numbers in those units would not change.”

If one of the Wildlife Commissioners on the Game and Fish Commission cancelled alloting his 8 licenses to be raffled off, no more licenses would be placed in the limited quota pool as these licenses are specially set aside just for that purpose, same thing with the One Shot hunt. All you would be doing is cancelling one of the greatest events used for funding the Water for Wildlife projects, Scholarships awarded, Outdoor Education workshops, the One Shot Wildlife Museum and the tradition, culture and history of the oldest hunting event in N. America and now actively allowing Women and Veterans the chance to participate. This year 7 women are participating. https://localnews8.com/life/outdoor...y-compete-in-wyomings-one-shot-antelope-hunt/
 
No as the Game and Fish has repeatedly stated it will not net any gain of licenses in the limited quota pool as the licenses are earmarked or set aside especially just for the One Shot Hunt.
Somewhere, near Lander, Wy, there is a magic tree where G&F biologists grow 80 antelope bucks just for the One Shot hunt. That tree can never grow bucks for just any hunter. Harvesting those bucks never decreases the existing herd or the buck/doe ratio. It's simply magic and some are actually gullible enough to believe it. :ROFLMAO:

Magic antelope!
 
Somewhere, near Lander, Wy, there is a magic tree where G&F biologists grow 80 antelope bucks just for the One Shot hunt. That tree can never grow bucks for just any hunter. Harvesting those bucks never decreases the existing herd or the buck/doe ratio. It's simply magic and some are actually gullible enough to believe it. :ROFLMAO:

Magic antelope!

No sir!!! Was the magic water holes one shot created. All that blood,sweat and tears they put into it
 
Somewhere in Wyoming there are a few Ignorant, Naive and Gullible hunters who think money just grows on a Magic tree for Water projects, scholarships, outdoor workshops, museums, women’s and veterans events. Cancelling those great projects they gullibly think have no impact on wildlife with the hundreds of springs, guzzlers, pipelines and water development projects all across Wyoming. It's simply magic and some are actually gullible enough to believe it. :ROFLMAO

Magic Money Tree!!!!:cool::cool::cool::eek::eek::eek:
 
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Is this letter ever going to be published?
I was forced into quarantine for the last 20 days. So I have worked a little on the letter, but when you have to be out of the house and away from family you should spend as much of it hunting??? So I am now on day 19 hunting. I am also trying to pull a few more facts. Just got an email from the state about the event.
 

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