Hey Utah DWR!
- Thread starter DBLung
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Hornhog2
Guest
Amen brother! Utah is way over due to micro-manage their herds. I think it would help so much if they split the existing units apart. Only thing I can figure is they don't care about deer anymore since they generate more revenue from elk. Sad, but true. They will tell you they don't have the resources to micro-manage...how does every other state do it???
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thebuckstopshere
Guest
Utah is doing it. They just kept it so you could hunt a bigger area. You really want them to make it so you draw a tag once every ten years?
Utards ought to think before they just spout chit off thinking they will make things better. I don't want to draw a general tag once every ten years, like every other GD state.
Utards ought to think before they just spout chit off thinking they will make things better. I don't want to draw a general tag once every ten years, like every other GD state.
Smokepole
Active Member
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thebuckstopshere
Can you explain to me how you come up with only being able to hunt a unit "once every ten years" if the UDWR required us to choose a micro managed area to apply for and hunt? Currently, you can hunt the Southern region every 2-3 years with a rifle/muzzle loader and more frequently with a bow and that is the toughest region to draw. So, I could see you drawing a specific micro managed unit every 2-3 years but, you should be able to draw a second or third choice somewhere in the state about every year.
Smokepole
Can you explain to me how you come up with only being able to hunt a unit "once every ten years" if the UDWR required us to choose a micro managed area to apply for and hunt? Currently, you can hunt the Southern region every 2-3 years with a rifle/muzzle loader and more frequently with a bow and that is the toughest region to draw. So, I could see you drawing a specific micro managed unit every 2-3 years but, you should be able to draw a second or third choice somewhere in the state about every year.
Smokepole
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wtrfowl
Guest
well at least they care about some kind of game... here in Idaho the F&G don't care about any herds!! as far as micro-manageing I would just be happy if Idaho would manage let alone micro-manage!
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muleycrazy225
Guest
Because the DWR are to lazy to manage all the units. but i agree we should do what Colorado does and have tons of tiny units and only be able to hunt every couple of years but then you are taking 160 to 190 class bucks every time you go out. i bet ya if we got enough people we could get them to change it!
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thebuckstopshere
Guest
>>but, you should be able
>>to draw a second or
>>third choice somewhere in the
>>state about every year.
>>
>>Smokepole
>
>*Not_even_close*
>
>78049 resident hunters put in for
>54944 General deer tags in
>2008. That left 23,105 hunters
>without drawing a tag.
>
>If we were in a micro-unit
>draw system right now, using
>bonus points we'd be well
>on our way to the
>cluster**** that is the elk
>bonus point system.
DallanC hit it pretty good. My point is, you may get a tag every two to three years, but it aint gonna be where you want it. In the current system, at least you can get a tag every two to three years if you like to hunt the Southern REgion and then you can hunt where you like in that region. If they go to micromanaged units, where you have to pick a small unit to apply for, there will be 5-6 little units that will quickly become the places everyone applies for as a first choice, and then, its gonna take 10-12 years to draw. No easy solution.
>>to draw a second or
>>third choice somewhere in the
>>state about every year.
>>
>>Smokepole
>
>*Not_even_close*
>
>78049 resident hunters put in for
>54944 General deer tags in
>2008. That left 23,105 hunters
>without drawing a tag.
>
>If we were in a micro-unit
>draw system right now, using
>bonus points we'd be well
>on our way to the
>cluster**** that is the elk
>bonus point system.
DallanC hit it pretty good. My point is, you may get a tag every two to three years, but it aint gonna be where you want it. In the current system, at least you can get a tag every two to three years if you like to hunt the Southern REgion and then you can hunt where you like in that region. If they go to micromanaged units, where you have to pick a small unit to apply for, there will be 5-6 little units that will quickly become the places everyone applies for as a first choice, and then, its gonna take 10-12 years to draw. No easy solution.
Smokepole
Active Member
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- 797
DallanC
I'm still trying to follow your logic. If 23,105 hunters did not draw a permit in 2008, then those 23,105 hunters would have a PP to draw in 2009. They should all receive a permit before the 54,944 hunters who drew a permit in 2008. Unless, most of the 23,105 hunters all want the same unit(s) and then some may have to wait until 2010 to draw the permit (or longer depending on how popular a specific unit is). Which is what currently happens in the whole Southern region already. You will still get ~54,944 hunters drawing a permit in some micro-managed unit every year. The ratio is basically 2/3 or 67% of hunters receiving a permit and 1/3 or 33% of hunter not getting a permit. So, unless I'm not seeing something, a hunter should be able to hunt a "General Deer" (Not LE Deer) in a micro-managed unit approximately once every 2-3 years, if not every year.
Plus, how will that creat a cluster**** when these are preference points, not bonus points.
Smokepole
I'm still trying to follow your logic. If 23,105 hunters did not draw a permit in 2008, then those 23,105 hunters would have a PP to draw in 2009. They should all receive a permit before the 54,944 hunters who drew a permit in 2008. Unless, most of the 23,105 hunters all want the same unit(s) and then some may have to wait until 2010 to draw the permit (or longer depending on how popular a specific unit is). Which is what currently happens in the whole Southern region already. You will still get ~54,944 hunters drawing a permit in some micro-managed unit every year. The ratio is basically 2/3 or 67% of hunters receiving a permit and 1/3 or 33% of hunter not getting a permit. So, unless I'm not seeing something, a hunter should be able to hunt a "General Deer" (Not LE Deer) in a micro-managed unit approximately once every 2-3 years, if not every year.
Plus, how will that creat a cluster**** when these are preference points, not bonus points.
Smokepole
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Hunt_Rez
Guest
colorado > utah
Width isnt everything, its the ONLY thing.
Width isnt everything, its the ONLY thing.
clifhunter
Active Member
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- 416
that would suck to be like colorado and be able to hunt big deer every 2-5 years LOL. UTARDS WOULD RATHER HUNT DINKS EVERY YEAR. I know of units that I can draw every other year in colerado that are better tha some LE units in UT...........
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WildAntlers
Guest
I get shots at 170+ bucks every year in utah you just gotta get a little leg work in!
As far as them splitting the units up Im for it even if I have to give up hunting mule deer a year or two as long as it helps out the deer herds! This would especially help out those really popular areas where the success ratio is like 10-20%!
As far as them splitting the units up Im for it even if I have to give up hunting mule deer a year or two as long as it helps out the deer herds! This would especially help out those really popular areas where the success ratio is like 10-20%!
Smokepole
Active Member
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DallanC
By definition then, each Region is a LE region right now and not a general permit. It doesn't matter what each unit is called, but yes, they all do become LE based on a cap of permits available. Should we still have PP vs BP if this were to happen, probably not.
I also have 2 PP for general deer. However, I have hunted deer each year by buying an over the counter permit (although I believe this will go away with the new rule of getting your 2nd or 3rd choice and not loosing your PP). So, in 2007 you must have drawn a general deer permit for the central region. I hope you did well. I hope to draw a general permit for the southern region this year. Thus, the reason I referenced the 2-3 years between hunts in the "LE" unit I apply for.
I don't know what Nevada has to do with Utah and why Utah would end up like Nevada? If the UDWR does not manage each unit per their "5 Year Deer Plan", then I suspect hunting could suck on some units.
I know people shoot big deer every year and most of those are taken miles from a road. I'm sure you are not trying to infer that I hunt from the road and are willing to wait a few years between hunting. I by far prefer to get away from the roads. I'm sure there are many that fall into the lazy catagory.
To let you know, I base my understanding of the smaller managment units on how Colorado does it. I have either hunted Colorado myself or taken my kids there to hunt for the last 7 years. Although, we just bought points last year due to other commitments and I'm glad we did based on the number of deer lost and how slow the hunting was in 2008. We've been able hunt the unit we want too almost every year. Now if Colorado will do the right thing and cut more permits for this year, then we likely will not be hunting there in 2009 with only 1 PP. I can wait yet another year if that's what it takes and then maybe the deer herd will rebound and more permits can be allocated in the years to come.
The same thing should happen in Utah. The UDWR should reduce permits in units that do not meet the deer plan until the deer herd meets objectives. You can't do that when all these small units are within one big region. You can't control where hunters go, they will still hunt where the buck to doe ratio is not at objective and keep complaining to the UDWR that they need to do something about the lack of bucks. Let me use the Monore as an example: How many people will hunt some other unit within the southern region on the Saturday opening day and then head on over to the Monroe on Wedensday and hunt the opening of that hunt. What was the UDWR thinking? If they would have been able to limit the number of hunters on the Monroe this year, then maybe next year or the year after the UDWR could begin increasing permits if the buck to doe ratio met objective. As it is, I don't see the Monroe getting any better on buck to doe ratio with this asinine 5 day hunt starting on a Wednesday.
I appreciate the dialogue we are having and I hope that others reading these posts will provide their input.
Smokepole
By definition then, each Region is a LE region right now and not a general permit. It doesn't matter what each unit is called, but yes, they all do become LE based on a cap of permits available. Should we still have PP vs BP if this were to happen, probably not.
I also have 2 PP for general deer. However, I have hunted deer each year by buying an over the counter permit (although I believe this will go away with the new rule of getting your 2nd or 3rd choice and not loosing your PP). So, in 2007 you must have drawn a general deer permit for the central region. I hope you did well. I hope to draw a general permit for the southern region this year. Thus, the reason I referenced the 2-3 years between hunts in the "LE" unit I apply for.
I don't know what Nevada has to do with Utah and why Utah would end up like Nevada? If the UDWR does not manage each unit per their "5 Year Deer Plan", then I suspect hunting could suck on some units.
I know people shoot big deer every year and most of those are taken miles from a road. I'm sure you are not trying to infer that I hunt from the road and are willing to wait a few years between hunting. I by far prefer to get away from the roads. I'm sure there are many that fall into the lazy catagory.
To let you know, I base my understanding of the smaller managment units on how Colorado does it. I have either hunted Colorado myself or taken my kids there to hunt for the last 7 years. Although, we just bought points last year due to other commitments and I'm glad we did based on the number of deer lost and how slow the hunting was in 2008. We've been able hunt the unit we want too almost every year. Now if Colorado will do the right thing and cut more permits for this year, then we likely will not be hunting there in 2009 with only 1 PP. I can wait yet another year if that's what it takes and then maybe the deer herd will rebound and more permits can be allocated in the years to come.
The same thing should happen in Utah. The UDWR should reduce permits in units that do not meet the deer plan until the deer herd meets objectives. You can't do that when all these small units are within one big region. You can't control where hunters go, they will still hunt where the buck to doe ratio is not at objective and keep complaining to the UDWR that they need to do something about the lack of bucks. Let me use the Monore as an example: How many people will hunt some other unit within the southern region on the Saturday opening day and then head on over to the Monroe on Wedensday and hunt the opening of that hunt. What was the UDWR thinking? If they would have been able to limit the number of hunters on the Monroe this year, then maybe next year or the year after the UDWR could begin increasing permits if the buck to doe ratio met objective. As it is, I don't see the Monroe getting any better on buck to doe ratio with this asinine 5 day hunt starting on a Wednesday.
I appreciate the dialogue we are having and I hope that others reading these posts will provide their input.
Smokepole
JakeH
Long Time Member
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LAST EDITED ON Jan-12-09 AT 05:52PM (MST)[p]Great Post Smokepole, they are doing the same thing over here in the NE region, they have a 5 day hunt for a smaller sub unit, but they dont control where everyone is going to go the first couple day. If they needed to make a 5 day season they should have done it for the whole region. Now they are just going to make the rest of the region get hammerd for the first 4 days.
The Wildlife Board has F'ed up so many things this year that you wonder if its monkeys running the show.
Edit: DallanC do you think it had anything to do with your comment about founder in that other post. I dont know why they took your comment in this post down, even though I disagreed with it.
Jake H. MM Member since 1999.
The Wildlife Board has F'ed up so many things this year that you wonder if its monkeys running the show.
Edit: DallanC do you think it had anything to do with your comment about founder in that other post. I dont know why they took your comment in this post down, even though I disagreed with it.
Jake H. MM Member since 1999.
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Hornhog2
Guest
I don't know why splitting up the enormous units should make it that much more difficult to draw a tag. They have got to be able to manage these herds sepratley. They are all different. I know there are some deer herds here in the southern region that would be absolutley fantastic with a little managenment. But you can't keep pounding them over and over and hope to maintain any quality. I think you could achive this without hindering the opportunity. Guys might not be able to hunt certain areas for a couple years, but you could still get a tag and hunt somewhere close. I really think micro-management is the way to go.
DBLung
Active Member
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- 461
Thanks for the info guys. It looks like the majority of you want to see the deer units split as well. I'm going to do my part and send Karpowitz a letter. Maybe send a pic of a lady in a bikini with it. Does that work? Whats the best way to get his attention?
Karpowitz, Jim 801 538-4702 [email protected]
Karpowitz, Jim 801 538-4702 [email protected]
I have discussed the micro-management issue with a big manager at the DWR. His take is that we should look at the overall big picture in each region and not worry too much about whether a particular sub-unit is struggling. I personally disagree with that. He also mentioned that it would create a huge workload to micro-manage. I think you can see that there has been an attempt through the Mule Deer Committee to move toward some micro-management, but it is still far from what I think could work. At least there is some recognition of the need to somehow limit hunting on sub-units that are less than 15 bucks/100 does. I'm not to sure that the 5 day hunt starting on Weds. will help that much. It may well just create another "opening day" for some hunters-- how many will go to those units remains to be seen. I would have like to seen a specific number of tags issued for those sub-units and have a draw for them. Once the unit gets to 17 bucks/100 does (after 3 years minimum)it could then be moved back into the general season hunt.It does create more work, but I believe it would help the herds and the quality to increase appropriately.
