How bad does it have to get

ARROWHNTR

ARROWHNTR

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With the population exploding in Idaho most people have seen a steady decline in their hunting experience. More people, fewer animals and more pressure on the game that is there. My question is how far will the fish and game let it go before they make some changes. There are only so many animals and they can’t continue unlimited resident tag sales forever.

Full disclosure I am originally from Utah my wife was born and raised in Idaho and I have lived here for 4 years and hunted here for 25. So I am part of the problem, people moving here for a better quality of life.

When I first started hunting in Utah it was a lot like Idaho is now. They were struggling to deal with population growth and still giving opportunity. It got bad, real bad before they started making changes. Not saying Utah did everything right or wrong, but I always felt like I had plenty of opportunity to hunt every year, and the quality of the hunting approved dramatically.

Just interested to hear everyone’s take on what’s next for Idaho hunting. Does it stay the same and continue to get worse with more population? Or do they make some changes?
 
Treat it like a business! Out preform the competition! Make it so tough for them they give up! It’s not going to be easy but get rid of other hunters.

Do it! Don’t count on other people!
 
It’s so simple, they need to just go to a formal draw for non residents. Currenly, each unit has a capped number of tags for non residents, they all have to get on line at a certain time in which everyone is randomly given a number in line. Isn’t this how a draw works as well? It’s already a draw, so they need to cut through the crap and just call it what it is. May 31 deadline, must buy a non resident hunting license, 3 choices, no preference points, oh wait that is the process for their “controlled hunts”
 
I have lived in Idaho for 30 yrs. If people don't think the doubling of the states population in the last 10 yrs hasn't and won't have a detrimental impact then go visit ut or wa. I think as residents we also need to pick one unit to hunt deer in like the nr. Having a draw for nr has zero effects, 12,000 tags is 12,000 tags given out. I have seen an increase of resident hunters and my usual places to hunt are more crowded. We can fix this by a few methods but blaming the nr is foolish. We could start a every other year buck hunt or cap the number of tags for the units that are really hurting. My 2 cents.
 
I've seen an increase in weekend warriors frm Boisangeles ripping around on Razors. On and off the rds.But guys out hunting away frm the noise, hardly any. Picking one unit to hunt wouldn't hurt my feelings. Don't think we're there yet tho.
 
hornguy said:
I have lived in Idaho for 30 yrs. If people don't think the doubling of the states population in the last 10 yrs hasn't and won't have a detrimental impact then go visit ut or wa. I think as residents we also need to pick one unit to hunt deer in like the nr. Having a draw for nr has zero effects, 12,000 tags is 12,000 tags given out. I have seen an increase of resident hunters and my usual places to hunt are more crowded. We can fix this by a few methods but blaming the nr is foolish. We could start a every other year buck hunt or cap the number of tags for the units that are really hurting. My 2 cents.
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Thank You!
 
hornguy said:
I have lived in Idaho for 30 yrs. If people don't think the doubling of the states population in the last 10 yrs hasn't and won't have a detrimental impact then go visit ut or wa. I think as residents we also need to pick one unit to hunt deer in like the nr. Having a draw for nr has zero effects, 12,000 tags is 12,000 tags given out. I have seen an increase of resident hunters and my usual places to hunt are more crowded. We can fix this by a few methods but blaming the nr is foolish. We could start an every other year buck hunt or cap the number of tags for the units that are really hurting. My 2 cents.
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I think this is a very accurate statement. The fact is it can’t stay the same forever with the growth Idaho is seeing. You cannot give unlimited tags for a very limited resource without it eventually having a detrimental impact. There are lots of examples in the west of how to do this successfully and how not to do it.

Utah waited too long 30 years ago to make a change and hunting got bad and it took years to recover from it. Hopefully Idaho can see the writing on the walls and at least start looking at options for the future.
 
Idaho Fish and Game is owned by farmers, farmers like selling off their yearlings. Corn McDonald head biologist for Magic Valley got rid of hunters speaking at public meetings, it turned into his way or the highway, but they do have the secret Sharp Shooters team where you can sign up and get an Elk shot by the special team.
 
JPickett said:
There lots of new people here, and yeah they buy tags but there’s still not an over population of hunters. I still hunt all my same areas, don’t see guys where I hunt and fill all my tags. But I get what the OP is saying. My response personally is just keep out working the next guy
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That will work until it doesn’t and then it will be to late.
 
Oh yes, it’s definitely a much different experience now than it was even 5 years ago, I’ve been concerned about the number of resident hunters, it’s very obvious. We have a few different favorite areas and they all get just pounded. It’s fine to try to outwork others, but that is getting hard to do that as well due to the growing number of residents.
LE is another problem, the fish and game does need to make changes to this program, Consider putting a limit on the LE application to one species per hunter, per year, if you apply for deer that’s it, not deer and elk in the same year, they could also add a year to the waiting period for those that draw a LE tag, something to give more hunters the LE opportunity. There are so many applicants it’s become extremely difficult.
 
ARROWHNTR said:
With the population exploding in Idaho most people have seen a steady decline in their hunting experience. More people, fewer animals and more pressure on the game that is there. My question is how far will the fish and game let it go before they make some changes. There are only so many animals and they can’t continue unlimited resident tag sales forever.

Full disclosure I am originally from Utah my wife was born and raised in Idaho and I have lived here for 4 years and hunted here for 25. So I am part of the problem, people moving here for a better quality of life.

When I first started hunting in Utah it was a lot like Idaho is now. They were struggling to deal with population growth and still giving opportunity. It got bad, real bad before they started making changes. Not saying Utah did everything right or wrong, but I always felt like I had plenty of opportunity to hunt every year, and the quality of the hunting approved dramatically.

Just interested to hear everyone’s take on what’s next for Idaho hunting. Does it stay the same and continue to get worse with more population? Or do they make some changes?
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Idaho Fish & NO Game does NOT give a **** about the animals in Idaho PERIOD !!! If they did they would have been reducing tag #s & closing units years ago !! Take 2017 right after the BIG SNOW UT WY MT NV & OR all closed or reduced their units that were the Hardest hit with mortality !!! What did Idaho do NOT ONE DAMN THING not in 17 or since !!! opportunity for more $$ since we were still doing the OTC tags !!!
 
OLDHORNHUNTER said:
Idaho Fish & NO Game does NOT give a **** about the animals in Idaho PERIOD !!! If they did they would have been reducing tag #s & closing units years ago !! Take 2017 right after the BIG SNOW UT WY MT NV & OR all closed or reduced their units that were the Hardest hit with mortality !!! What did Idaho do NOT ONE DAMN THING not in 17 or since !!! opportunity for more $$ since we were still doing the OTC tags !!!
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Not necessarily true, they did reduce a lot of antlerless opportunity in the 2 years that followed that winter and I didn’t hear of any unit being closed completely in those other states
 
Idaho needs to go to a points system and draw only for NR, just like Wyoming does. If I want to jump across the border and hunt a general elk tag in Wyoming, it takes 4 points, so once every 5 years (no accounting for creep). Why is it ok for NR to come hunt the best units of the state for elk every single year? We have nearly given up hunting archery elk where we grew up because the same large group from Utah is there every. Single. Year. Nice guys. Spend the majority of the season getting after it. But, come on. Go to a system like Wyoming, cut tags significantly, recoup revenue with the point system. It’s fair for Wyoming, let’s do the same here!
 
BBW said:
Yeah actually it is true, keep your name calling for your Facebook account. Hero
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Stop spreading lies chicken litttle. Just cuz you’re big beautiful women doesn’t mean you can spread lies here.
 
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Your read a few lines then formulate your macho man response. your small mind at work here. Clearly you are an insecure person as I’m always reading your little man replies, doesn’t matter what it is. Save them for facebook. You could have simply stated your opinion that you disagree but your too immature for that, little man.
I’ll say it again and then leave it be, a point system is the last thing Idaho needs, there are other ways to deal with issues.

no need to keep going little man, go smash a door or something macho
 
BBW said:
Your read a few lines then formulate your macho man response. your small mind at work here. Clearly you are an insecure person as I’m always reading your little man replies, doesn’t matter what it is. Save them for facebook. You could have simply stated your opinion that you disagree but your too immature for that, little man.
I’ll say it again and then leave it be, a point system is the last thing Idaho needs, there are other ways to deal with issues.

no need to keep going little man, go smash a door or something macho
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Cool story bro. But using scare tactics like you’ll hunt one time in your life is straight up lying and being deceitful. I never said ID needs a points system. Well Karen let’s hear all the other ways besides a point system to “fix” your perceived “problem” with ID.
 
I have a lot of NR friends I take hunting every year. They have been satisfied with the one year wait out for antlered animals and antelope. Everyone gets a chance to apply, and are lucky or not. Universally, if it went to a mandated draw, they would want a guaranteed 10% allotment for NR tags, or more like Wy, with 20-40%. Idaho residents would never pay the difference that losing the NR's money would cause
 
I would be in favor of:

Almost anything but a point system.

Call non res OTC tags ''general'' tags, Call non res controlled hunts ''premium'' tags.

Non Res, general tag, one species per year, 10% of the total tags, random draw. Pick a unit, do away with zones. Up to 4 allowed in a party application for general tags, no party applications for premium tags.

Non Res, successful premium tag hunt? 3 year waiting period. Unsuccessful? 2 year waiting period.

Res, successful controlled hunt? 2 year waiting period for all species. Unsuccessful? 1 year waiting period.

Res, one species only in the controlled hunt drawing. Pick a unit for OTC, do away with zones.


License and tag fees? Who cares, its all going to farmers/ranchers/sharpshooters and new F&G offices anyways. If my suggestions sound a little confusing, it's intentional. Most Idaho residents don't even read the regs and/or have poor reading comprehension and will screw up their application and increase my draw odds.
 
In reality theirs nothings to fix. I could give a rats ass if non residents have to sit online all day to not get a tag. Not going to change the amount of nr tags that get sold wether it’s a draw or not. Maybe if guys get sick enough of it we’ll get back to the days when I could buy a second deer tag basically any time. That’d probably the extent of what I really care about when it comes to NR tags.
 
I have yet to hear a hunter from a state that has a points system say its a good thing. Let the NR tags go to a points system. But the reality of it is the governor appoints the director of IDF&G and he or she is going to do what ever they dam well please, they have proven in the past they don't listen to us residents. Ranchers have more pull then sportsmen. The only way our voices are heard is at the ballot boxes. IDAHO does not need a POINT SYSTEM!!
If NR don't like our system is run, go else where. For too many years out of state hunters always referred to Idaho as their fall back state. Well maybe its time they fall elsewhere.
 
Blank said:
I have a lot of NR friends I take hunting every year. They have been satisfied with the one year wait out for antlered animals and antelope. Everyone gets a chance to apply, and are lucky or not. Universally, if it went to a mandated draw, they would want a guaranteed 10% allotment for NR tags, or more like Wy, with 20-40%. Idaho residents would never pay the difference that losing the NR's money would cause
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That’s why a point system for NR. They feel like they are getting somewhere, paying into the system in their “off years” Idaho could recover lost tag revenue by selling points. Cut tags, maintain revenue…win win.
Idaho gives away more than 10% of its tags already to NR. The only thing called is controlled hunts. Many zones have more NR tags sold to NR than residents.
 
andrew12gauge said:
Not necessarily true, they did reduce a lot of antlerless opportunity in the 2 years that followed that winter and I didn’t hear of any unit being closed completely in those other states
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The reduced a few damn doe hunts for kids !! I dont remember the exact closures but you can sure google the 2017 hunt regs per state !! Look back at the Idaho general & controlled tags from 2017 to present They DID NOT shorten any seasons or reduce tags #s in general or controlled hunts & have NO intention of doing so ! Hell in one article in 2017 they said in their own reports that 2017 was the 2nd lowest fawn survival in 20 years !!!
 
Reduce NR tags, no more general tags, and create point system for them. For NR and Resident controlled antlered hunts - longer waiting periods if you draw (2years) and even longer if you harvest (3years).

For mule deer - No doe or either sex hunting except for youth - period.

For every antlered controlled hunt, unsuccessful youth hunters are automatically put into a “final tag” draw for 1 additional tag draw opportunity for each unit.

Wildcard idea: For hunters aged 18-65, general deer tags must only allow harvest of 3 points on one side or larger. Turn the two point units into a controlled hunt in October.

Also need to spend more money on signage and enforcement on motorized abuse. And need to restrict shed hunting in terms of winter range disturbance.
 
It’s not so much of that the draw system is needed. It is how do you deal with over crowding and dwindling herds. Something has to give. Need healthy herds.
 
Just cap every unit with a certain amount of OTC tags. 20k hunters in one unit is dangerous. F and G can make up the lost revenue by selling popcorn outside albertsons.
 
I'm sure many if not most resident Idaho sportsman & sportswomen would be ok with tag & license cost being raised. I know I would. IDF&G just needs to do their part in rebuilding our mule deer herds, otherwise why waste the money.
 
Point systems and methods of tag distribution is a whole other discussion. I like the random system for controlled hunts. however if it when they start capping “general season” tags I know I would be pretty bummed if I didn’t get a tag for three or four years when others had one every year just do to luck if the draw.

Wildlife needs to be managed based on the biology and sustainability of the herds. This cannot be done with unlimited tags period. It has worked to a degree because of Idaho’s smaller population but those days are quickly coming to an end.
 
Re herds: Let’s start with controlled deer hunt 1068. 2000 tags for either sex deer in units 39 and 43 and the dates coincide w the general hunt. Why are we letting adults kill does in those two units? Same with hunt 1061. 250 antlerless deer tags in unit 44. Why? Is it opportunity? or truly no confidence in habitat?
 
DownThePipe said:
Re herds: Let’s start with controlled deer hunt 1068. 2000 tags for either sex deer in units 39 and 43 and the dates coincide w the general hunt. Why are we letting adults kill does in those two units? Same with hunt 1061. 250 antlerless deer tags in unit 44. Why? Is it opportunity? or truly no confidence in habitat?
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Why are we killing does PERIOD !!! I highly doubt there is a unit in the entire state that has MORE animals than it can sustain naturally . Take 31 & 32 & 40 game units they are in the WORST condition in the 30 years !! 39 & 43 are in the same boat, more hunters every year than there are animals in the unit !! Yet F&G keeps pumping out does tags, extra tags, longer seasons WHY !! Its all about the $$$
 
DownThePipe said:
Re herds: Let’s start with controlled deer hunt 1068. 2000 tags for either sex deer in units 39 and 43 and the dates coincide w the general hunt. Why are we letting adults kill does in those two units? Same with hunt 1061. 250 antlerless deer tags in unit 44. Why? Is it opportunity? or truly no confidence in habitat?
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They have been pimping out the does in 39 for years. Unit 39 continues to produce very high numbers of deer. Maybe doe hunting isn't the problems but is the solution.
Allowing hunters to kill does with the exception of years after a bad winter may be a better management strategy.
 
DownThePipe said:
Reduce NR tags, no more general tags, and create point system for them. For NR and Resident controlled antlered hunts - longer waiting periods if you draw (2years) and even longer if you harvest (3years).

For mule deer - No doe or either sex hunting except for youth - period.

For every antlered controlled hunt, unsuccessful youth hunters are automatically put into a “final tag” draw for 1 additional tag draw opportunity for each unit.

Wildcard idea: For hunters aged 18-65, general deer tags must only allow harvest of 3 points on one side or larger. Turn the two point units into a controlled hunt in October.

Also need to spend more money on signage and enforcement on motorized abuse. And need to restrict shed hunting in terms of winter range disturbance.
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F&G has management objectives, you would need to change those before implementing your herd building plan. Never heard of game agency that operates with those restrictions. Bottom line is you want to limit harvest and eliminate antlerless hunting, and increase mature buck populations. Game agency’s all operate on scientific models, when you talk about eliminating antlerless hunting you lose credibility. Colorado had 3pt restrictions in 80’s didn’t go well Idaho tried it as well. Motorized abuse sucks but no agency has money to enforce. Habit loss and degradation is now a limiting factor. It’s not as bad as people think if your a resident get out and hunt I’ll take our opportunities over anyone else’s in lower 48.
 
boise said:
F&G has management objectives, you would need to change those before implementing your herd building plan. Never heard of game agency that operates with those restrictions. Bottom line is you want to limit harvest and eliminate antlerless hunting, and increase mature buck populations. Game agency’s all operate on scientific models, when you talk about eliminating antlerless hunting you lose credibility. Colorado had 3pt restrictions in 80’s didn’t go well Idaho tried it as well. Motorized abuse sucks but no agency has money to enforce. Habit loss and degradation is now a limiting factor. It’s not as bad as people think if your a resident get out and hunt I’ll take our opportunities over anyone else’s in lower 48.
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As a long time resident I don’t have any problem with the way things are at this moment. We manage for opportunity and all I care about are my youth opportunities. And I agree idaho residents have it good but we need to shift a bit more toward quality and better age class when it comes to mule deer. Other states experienced the growth we are now seeing 30 years ago, so they had to make the changes then that we need now. As far as your other thoughts - you bring up vaid points but things are a lot different now then they were back then. For example, 3 point restriction is a lot different in modern day now with high powered scopes, binoculars, and weapons… a lot different than the 80s. Anyway - it’s mostly moot as just like the non resident tag system, our IDFG will operate the way it always has - do something until is completely broken then keep doing it.
 
DownThePipe said:
Re herds: Let’s start with controlled deer hunt 1068. 2000 tags for either sex deer in units 39 and 43 and the dates coincide w the general hunt. Why are we letting adults kill does in those two units? Same with hunt 1061. 250 antlerless deer tags in unit 44. Why? Is it opportunity? or truly no confidence in habitat?
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I’m gonna say the habitat in both those units could sustain a lot more deer than what’s currently there.
Some will complain about depredation and vehicle encounters.
Not all that long ago a good hunter stood a reasonable chance to see a good buck up there. Those days are over by and large.
 
I think there's a very simple solution to all of this to be honest... As an Idaho resident, it's not like I can go over to WA, OR, WY, UT or MT and just buy a tag as long as I get there before someone else. I have to put in for a draw and my chances are so small that it's practically a waste of time. After that it costs me a fortune for the non-resident license and another fortune for the non-resident tag. That's before I park my $45,000 nitrous injected razor machine inside my $120,000 toy hauler which I will then hook up to my $1,000,000 Ford F10,500 to make the arduous trek to another State so I can use my annoying piece of **** SxS to reenact all of my favorite scenes from the Mad Max trilogy and call it hunting, while I ruin the experience for the locals. Oh wait, I am an Idaho Native and I don't have any of those things, it's people from other States coming here to do that to me! Were it up to me non-resident tags would be very tightly controlled and extremely limited. I would also provide extreme penalties for violation of motorized hunting rules, like lifetime license forfeiture for non-residents. I would also require a person who has moved here to live in Idaho at least 9 months out of the year and prove that they generate %100 of their income here for at least 5 consecutive years before they are eligible for "resident hunter status". My little rant here comes from a place of complete and utter heartbreak... I grew up in McCall in the early 2000's and back then hunting was a weekend affair for a local. It was not an "if I fill my tag" type of deal, it was a "I'm going to fill my tag this weekend" type of deal. Nowadays, I can't even hunt in McCall anymore, all the spots I know are either no longer access yes or completely overrun by flatlanders and "hunting tourists". The real problem isn't the out of State hunters though, they are only taking advantage of an opportunity that anyone in their position would take advantage of, the problem is the State of Idaho. It has become abundantly clear that the State views Idaho's wildlife as a tourist attraction and they encourage IDFG to manage it that way. I don't know for certain but I have actually been told by several people that IDFG doesn't even get a State budget, they generate their own budget solely through taxes, sales, fees and fines. Does anyone know if that's true? If it is then it's deeply disturbing because they are certified Peace Officers with powers of arrest. Can you imagine if your local PD or Sheriff's Department had to create their own budget entirely from taxes, sales, fees and fines? I fear that Idaho's game population will be decimated in the near future and the "recovery" will be Idaho becoming just like all the other Western States. Draw only for everyone, ridiculously small number of tags issued, astronomical price. Its truly sad.
 
A1990W said:
I think there's a very simple solution to all of this to be honest... As an Idaho resident, it's not like I can go over to WA, OR, WY, UT or MT and just buy a tag as long as I get there before someone else. I have to put in for a draw and my chances are so small that it's practically a waste of time. After that it costs me a fortune for the non-resident license and another fortune for the non-resident tag. That's before I park my $45,000 nitrous injected razor machine inside my $120,000 toy hauler which I will then hook up to my $1,000,000 Ford F10,500 to make the arduous trek to another State so I can use my annoying piece of **** SxS to reenact all of my favorite scenes from the Mad Max trilogy and call it hunting, while I ruin the experience for the locals. Oh wait, I am an Idaho Native and I don't have any of those things, it's people from other States coming here to do that to me! Were it up to me non-resident tags would be very tightly controlled and extremely limited. I would also provide extreme penalties for violation of motorized hunting rules, like lifetime license forfeiture for non-residents. I would also require a person who has moved here to live in Idaho at least 9 months out of the year and prove that they generate %100 of their income here for at least 5 consecutive years before they are eligible for "resident hunter status". My little rant here comes from a place of complete and utter heartbreak... I grew up in McCall in the early 2000's and back then hunting was a weekend affair for a local. It was not an "if I fill my tag" type of deal, it was a "I'm going to fill my tag this weekend" type of deal. Nowadays, I can't even hunt in McCall anymore, all the spots I know are either no longer access yes or completely overrun by flatlanders and "hunting tourists". The real problem isn't the out of State hunters though, they are only taking advantage of an opportunity that anyone in their position would take advantage of, the problem is the State of Idaho. It has become abundantly clear that the State views Idaho's wildlife as a tourist attraction and they encourage IDFG to manage it that way. I don't know for certain but I have actually been told by several people that IDFG doesn't even get a State budget, they generate their own budget solely through taxes, sales, fees and fines. Does anyone know if that's true? If it is then it's deeply disturbing because they are certified Peace Officers with powers of arrest. Can you imagine if your local PD or Sheriff's Department had to create their own budget entirely from taxes, sales, fees and fines? I fear that Idaho's game population will be decimated in the near future and the "recovery" will be Idaho becoming just like all the other Western States. Draw only for everyone, ridiculously small number of tags issued, astronomical price. Its truly sad.
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All capped tags, resident and nonresident need to be switched to controlled. The online tag sale is a crapshoot, anyway. There is no need to have everyone at their computers wasting hours to essentially do the same thing as a draw.

This REALLY pisses of my fellow Idahoans when I say this, but nonresidents are not the problem. Residents just get sour when they see out-of-state license plates, and the nonresidents have a much higher success rate than residents. This just adds fuel to the resident whining. The problem is uncapped OTC tags for residents. The state population has skyrocketed, and the herds cannot support the current tag and harvest numbers. The units that IDFG has switched to controlled, especially for mule deer, have experienced great improvement in herd numbers and hunt quality.
 
Seems like December 1st date gets more nonresident committed than a May/June draw. Draw might lead to more leftover tags. I personally picked up a second elk tag mid season in October. No need for resident draw yet! Management strategy is not in line with some of these suggestions.
 
BBW said:
No point system, you’ll hunt One time the rest of your life if your lucky, seriously, that’s the LAST thing we need. Not Good
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Not necessarily. A full random can keep you tagless for many years at a time as well.

A no point system warrents only drawing one tag per year, and then have a wait period for that species for 'X' years. This doesn't mean only one app for one species, but successful for one species/one tag. Once you draw, all your other apps are tossed out.

All western states are going through the same thing; loss of habitat and weather (both harsh winter and severe drought) that affects animal nose count.
 
roadrunner said:
Not necessarily. A full random can keep you tagless for many years at a time as well.

A no point system warrents only drawing one tag per year, and then have a wait period for that species for 'X' years. This doesn't mean only one app for one species, but successful for one species/one tag. Once you draw, all your other apps are tossed out.
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WTF is this jibberish?
 
Weiserbucks said:
I would be in favor of:

Almost anything but a point system.

Call non res OTC tags ''general'' tags, Call non res controlled hunts ''premium'' tags.

Non Res, general tag, one species per year, 10% of the total tags, random draw. Pick a unit, do away with zones. Up to 4 allowed in a party application for general tags, no party applications for premium tags.

Non Res, successful premium tag hunt? 3 year waiting period. Unsuccessful? 2 year waiting period.

Res, successful controlled hunt? 2 year waiting period for all species. Unsuccessful? 1 year waiting period.

Res, one species only in the controlled hunt drawing. Pick a unit for OTC, do away with zones.


License and tag fees? Who cares, its all going to farmers/ranchers/sharpshooters and new F&G offices anyways. If my suggestions sound a little confusing, it's intentional. Most Idaho residents don't even read the regs and/or have poor reading comprehension and will screw up their application and increase my draw odds.
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Weiserbucks said:
WTF is this jibberish?
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Tag, you're it.
 
Angry Chair said:
All capped tags, resident and nonresident need to be switched to controlled. The online tag sale is a crapshoot, anyway. There is no need to have everyone at their computers wasting hours to essentially do the same thing as a draw.

This REALLY pisses of my fellow Idahoans when I say this, but nonresidents are not the problem. Residents just get sour when they see out-of-state license plates, and the nonresidents have a much higher success rate than residents. This just adds fuel to the resident whining. The problem is uncapped OTC tags for residents. The state population has skyrocketed, and the herds cannot support the current tag and harvest numbers. The units that IDFG has switched to controlled, especially for mule deer, have experienced great improvement in herd numbers and hunt quality.
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I really like to hear the nonresidents cry though ?

In all seriousness I am with you nonresidents aren’t the problem, but before we go limiting resident tag numbers thereby excluding some from hunting each year, maybe let’s limit where people can hunt. A zone system seems to work well for elk, why couldn’t it work for deer??‍♂️
 
andrew12gauge said:
I really like to hear the nonresidents cry though ?

In all seriousness I am with you nonresidents aren’t the problem, but before we go limiting resident tag numbers thereby excluding some from hunting each year, maybe let’s limit where people can hunt. A zone system seems to work well for elk, why couldn’t it work for deer??‍♂️
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That will happen regardless. The best action will be Dec 1 on Rokslide. Be sure to tune in, lol.

Controlled hunt by zone is fine. I think capped sales are good as long as the demand isn't so high that the tags sell out in a couple hours or less.
 
Weiserbucks said:
I don't get it, were you proposing a solution or trying to state facts? My earlier post was a potential solution to a few issues.
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So was mine, while making a statement.

A certain number of tags are the same regardless of whether or not a point system is in place.

Displeasure with a point system is all about fairness without time investment. It's all about not wanting to wait in line; the perceived ability to draw every year (and some do for some reason).

The only way to make it "fair" without a point system is to increase the ability for others to draw a tag of some sort rather than repeats for one person.

It has nothing to do with species or "herd" management and everything to do with fairness by not allowing someone to draw all the time or multiple tags in any given year.

Spread the wealth...
 
It would be great to see Idaho Fish & NO Game actually give a **** about the animals in Idaho !! That is what these F-ck Tarts are supposed to be managing, but they are managing people & $$ instead. I have talked to so many ranchers farmers hunters ETC & 95% of them all say the same thing, Terrible or NO herd management !!! I have said this over & over again and F&G have publicly stated 80% deer herd die off in 2016/17, yet there was no unit closures no season reductions no reduced late buck or doe tags. It was biz as usual, last winter Eastern Idaho same story massive die off again 80% or more as stated by F&G !! And again No reduction in tags no seasons closed no shorten seasons ETC !! Idaho currently allows 28315 Non resident elk & deer tags .. Cut that # down to 3 to 5000 total tags for NR { put them all in their own NR drawing } No more OTC tags for NR Period !! Close ALL the 2 point only units to any hunter & make them youth & over 65 only & a 5 day MAX season . Close ALL doe hunts across the state immediately .. In the units that have been hammered the worst CLOSE them !! or reduce the # of tags down to a bare minimum. Reduce the general hunting seasons to a MAX of 7 days & go ahead & raise the price of license & tag fees for residents I guarantee the people that want to hunt will Gladly pay the increase we may cry a bit but in the end there will be animals to hunt !!! We will never see the herd #s we had back years ago, but IF we don't make these F&G IDIOTS pull their heads out of their AZZ's we sure as hell wont have any in the future ... Just my 2 cents
 
roadrunner said:
So was mine, while making a statement.

A certain number of tags are the same regardless of whether or not a point system is in place.

Displeasure with a point system is all about fairness without time investment. It's all about not wanting to wait in line; the perceived ability to draw every year (and some do for some reason).

The only way to make it "fair" without a point system is to increase the ability for others to draw a tag of some sort rather than repeats for one person.

It has nothing to do with species or "herd" management and everything to do with fairness by not allowing someone to draw all the time or multiple tags in any given year.

Spread the wealth...
Click to expand...
I misunderstood your post earlier, I agree with most of what you said.
 
The number one thing IDFG could do to help deer numbers is to make Residents pick a unit. One of ID biggest issues is that for the first couple of weeks of the season, everyone with a tag runs up into the units close to whichever town they live in to hunt, and then when they go to take time off to hunt they go to a better/further away unit.

I know it sucks to lose the general statewide tag, we lost it as NR and also lost it here in OR for archery deer and elk. Since the state has gone to unit-specific hunter densities have gotten better and game numbers in many over-hunted areas have increased. I can still get a deer and elk tag every year and have a great opportunity to kill good bucks and bulls, I just have to pick where I'm going to do it.

ID really has no control over harvest letting so many people hunt wherever they please. Decide what the acceptable amount of hunters are for a unit and make them first come first serve tags. There will still be plenty of great hunting every year for residents and it will help the deer herds for sure.
 
JPickett said:
There lots of new people here, and yeah they buy tags but there’s still not an over population of hunters. I still hunt all my same areas, don’t see guys where I hunt and fill all my tags. But I get what the OP is saying. My response personally is just keep out working the next guy
Click to expand...
This……
 
Blindnonresident said:
Only Idaho land owners should be able to hunt.
If you pay property taxes in Idaho you can hunt.
Click to expand...
I reckon I’ll hang my tag on ranchers cattle since their **** stink cows ate up all the winter range feed on public land.
Watch him flip his lid now.
 
Many great ideas being discussed here which actually might make an impact and give our dwindling deer populations a chance to recover from the many different variables that have contributed to their demise over the last couple of decades. There's one problem though, all these ideas and possible solutions die here on this forum if we as hunters cannot come together as a whole and take this issue right to the feet of the Fish and Game. If we don't physically show up in numbers to F&G meetings and demand that changes be made, the seasons will stay the same and the herds will continue to be decimated. Your kids and grandkids will never get to experience the potential that this state has to produce exceptional, quality mule deer if we don't hold Idaho Fish and Game accountable and stay true to their conservation and management role. "Idaho Fish and Game is charged with preserving, protecting, perpetuating and managing all wildlife in the state for present and future generations." We are only shooting ourselves in the @ss when we sit here on this site and sh1t all over each other. We cannot afford for our future generations of hunters sake, to not stand up and voice our concerns. We as hunters cannot expect changes to be made in the favor of deer herds if we don't take our ideas and proposals to the people that set our seasons and regulations.
 
You guys are ignorant.
There was so much grass this year twice as many cows couldn't have eaten it all.
You better go eat a couple hamburgers.
Brought to you by cattlemen.
 
A significant number of hunters really like to be stupid when it comes to cattle grazing public lands, and the BHA clowns with their propaganda certainly don't help with this. The science is not on their side. There are far more benefits to cattle grazing than there are negatives, and public lands should not be strictly for wildlife and hunting.
 
Blindnonresident said:
You guys are ignorant.
There was so much grass this year twice as many cows couldn't have eaten it all.
You better go eat a couple hamburgers.
Brought to you by cattlemen.
Click to expand...
Its funny that the guys running their cows on BLM-State & National Forest lands for a buck or two a head are the ONLY ones that EVER say our cows are helping !!! That is Complete Horse SH1T !! I have hunted areas in 31 & 32 that used to be over ran with grass & misc shrubs. This was also some of the primary winter range feed for deer & elk, the ranchers put their cows on it & now it's cheat grass & dirt !! I was just down in unit 42 there were Frickin cows all over the BLM & State land, & there wasnt enoung green grass to feed anything let alone a herd of deer !!! everything was eat to the dirt by COWS .. This is the same area a lot of these animals will stage up & look for food before heading miles down on their winter ranges !! But there is Nothing there for them to eat again Thanks to the F-CKING COWS !! Why are these ranchers not keeping their cows on their own land ?? the same land they will NOT let anyone hunt but are the 1st to ***** & complain to F&G about the elk & deer in their hay barns & fields !!!
 
OLDHORNHUNTER said:
Its funny that the guys running their cows on BLM-State & National Forest lands for a buck or two a head are the ONLY ones that EVER say our cows are helping !!!
Click to expand...
I heard about and studied the benefits while I was completing ag and forestry/land management courses in college.

However, it does seem like the only people that whine about cattle are the Kuiu-draped hunters that live in the suburbs.
 
Angry Chair said:
A significant number of hunters really like to be stupid when it comes to cattle grazing public lands, and the BHA clowns with their propaganda certainly don't help with this. The science is not on their side. There are far more benefits to cattle grazing than there are negatives, and public lands should not be strictly for wildlife and hunting.
Click to expand...
So than since it is PUBLIC LAND hence BLM why the F-CK should these ranchers/farmers ETC be allowed to keep the PUBLIC from accessing these lands ??? There are over 3 MILLION acres of BLM in unit 42 alone & these A HOLE ranchers will not allow hunters access But Damn they will sure graze their F ing cows all over it
 
Angry Chair said:
I heard about and studied the benefits while I was completing ag and forestry/land management courses in college.

However, it does seem like the only people that whine about cattle are the Kuiu-draped hunters that live in the suburbs.
Click to expand...
Yeah typical Rancher response Like I said !!!
 
OLDHORNHUNTER said:
So than since it is PUBLIC LAND hence BLM why the F-CK should these ranchers/farmers ETC be allowed to keep the PUBLIC from accessing these lands ??? There are over 3 MILLION acres of BLM in unit 42 alone & these A HOLE ranchers will not allow hunters access But Damn they will sure graze their F ing cows all over it
Click to expand...
Are you referring to landlocked BLM parcels and landowners not allowing access easements?
 
Angry Chair said:
Are you referring to landlocked BLM parcels and landowners not allowing access easements?
Click to expand...
I am referring to landowners that own a small Azz piece of property off the main roads that block access to BLM !!! Take a peek at ONX unit 42 for example Millions of acres Blocked by them !! There are several landowners that have access blocked off & a couple that are charging $$ to F-_KING access this land
 
OLDHORNHUNTER said:
I am referring to landowners that own a small Azz piece of property off the main roads that block access to BLM !!! Take a peek at ONX unit 42 for example Millions of acres Blocked by them !! There are several landowners that have access blocked off & a couple that are charging $$ to F-_KING access this land
Click to expand...
If the main road is in the right-of way, then the landowner cannot block access. It sounds like BLM needs to actually manage the land and build a new road that doesn't cross private property, or they need to do a land sell or trade that makes for a configuration where public land isn't landlocked. However, a certain crowd throws a fit every time this is even mentioned. Maybe if there is another filmed hunt where a celebrity flies in on a helicopter to a landlocked piece of property, that will fix the problem.
 
This happens all over Idaho the majority of the land in unit 42 is land locked by these landowners & BLM does Nothing !! They will not build another road that costs $$ & our government would rather give that $4 to some other country . IF BLM took away their grazing rights to the 3 million plus acres it would sure as hell change a few landowners minds !!!
 
Taking all of that at face value, how is it that your gripe is with the ranchers and not the federal agency that has authority over the public land?

And you're sure that the grazing permit and all the cattle belong to the owner of the small piece off the access road? I have never met a grazing permit rancher that took issue with hunters on public land. Typically, encounters often involve talking about where they have seen game animals, and they will ask hunters if they have seen any dead cattle from predator kills.
 
Sounds like the complainers better head to Costco, buy some beef for this weekend's BBQ, and pick up some Kleenex.
OR
Try something new, Head out and do some trail or road maintenance.
It will make that beef taste all the better.

Obviously when you have the entitled attitude that some here demonstrate positive interactions in the field are a rare occurrence for them.
 
Last edited:
Already bought plenty and mixed it with venison trim for grind. This close to Dec 1 I donate all of my Kleenex to the nonresidents that participate in the IDFG tag sale, so I'll have to go without for a while.
 
Angry Chair said:
If the main road is in the right-of way, then the landowner cannot block access. It sounds like BLM needs to actually manage the land and build a new road that doesn't cross private property, or they need to do a land sell or trade that makes for a configuration where public land isn't landlocked. However, a certain crowd throws a fit every time this is even mentioned. Maybe if there is another filmed hunt where a celebrity flies in on a helicopter to a landlocked piece of property, that will fix the problem.
Click to expand...
There are several ranches that butt up against Mud Flat Road & all of the roads going off MF into BLM are posted gated & pad locked. I would say 90% of the access into BLM in unit 42 is off of MF Rd which basically is controlled by the landowners.
 
Blindnonresident said:
Sounds like the complainers better head to Costco, buy some beef for this weekend's BBQ, and pick up some Kleenex.
OR
Try something new, Head out and do some trail or road maintenance.
It will make that beef taste all the better.

Obviously when you have the entitled attitude that some here demonstrate positive interactions in the field are a rare occurrence for them.
Click to expand...
What is gonna make the beef taste better is when the majority is imported from Brazil !!
 
Angry Chair said:
Taking all of that at face value, how is it that your gripe is with the ranchers and not the federal agency that has authority over the public land?

And you're sure that the grazing permit and all the cattle belong to the owner of the small piece off the access road? I have never met a grazing permit rancher that took issue with hunters on public land. Typically, encounters often involve talking about where they have seen game animals, and they will ask hunters if they have seen any dead cattle from predator kills.
Click to expand...
You really think the ranchers are not up the Governments Ass ?? Between cattlemen & farmers there is more Federal $$ doled out to them than people on Welfare !! Yes I saw several brands & they are the local ranches cows. You must be living in a different part of Idaho the ranchers running cows in 31 32 40 41 42 dont ever ask crap about dead cows. And I have never ran into one that has ever offered out any info about game around their areas. There are several people that have grazing rights in 31 they do not allow any hunting access
 
Grazing permits do not allow blockage to hunting. There have been many cases of ranchers fighting with BLM, some cases even received national attention. If they're locking a gate on a public road, then it's illegal, and you should get BHA to fight it if they will dare take on a big government agency when their side of the aisle is in power.
 
Angry Chair said:
Grazing permits do not allow blockage to hunting. There have been many cases of ranchers fighting with BLM, some cases even received national attention. If they're locking a gate on a public road, then it's illegal, and you should get BHA to fight it if they will dare take on a big government agency when their side of the aisle is in power.
Click to expand...
Well someone apparently forgot to tell the dudes doing it !!
 
Real question for the cattle ranchers, if your grazing permit states that all cows are to be off the grounds on 10/1, why do you still have hundreds of head on the grounds 11/1?
 

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