How bad does it have to get

ARROWHNTR

Active Member
Messages
451
With the population exploding in Idaho most people have seen a steady decline in their hunting experience. More people, fewer animals and more pressure on the game that is there. My question is how far will the fish and game let it go before they make some changes. There are only so many animals and they can’t continue unlimited resident tag sales forever.

Full disclosure I am originally from Utah my wife was born and raised in Idaho and I have lived here for 4 years and hunted here for 25. So I am part of the problem, people moving here for a better quality of life.

When I first started hunting in Utah it was a lot like Idaho is now. They were struggling to deal with population growth and still giving opportunity. It got bad, real bad before they started making changes. Not saying Utah did everything right or wrong, but I always felt like I had plenty of opportunity to hunt every year, and the quality of the hunting approved dramatically.

Just interested to hear everyone’s take on what’s next for Idaho hunting. Does it stay the same and continue to get worse with more population? Or do they make some changes?
 

SS!

Long Time Member
Messages
6,897
Treat it like a business! Out preform the competition! Make it so tough for them they give up! It’s not going to be easy but get rid of other hunters.

Do it! Don’t count on other people!
 

Country

Active Member
Messages
307
It’s so simple, they need to just go to a formal draw for non residents. Currenly, each unit has a capped number of tags for non residents, they all have to get on line at a certain time in which everyone is randomly given a number in line. Isn’t this how a draw works as well? It’s already a draw, so they need to cut through the crap and just call it what it is. May 31 deadline, must buy a non resident hunting license, 3 choices, no preference points, oh wait that is the process for their “controlled hunts”
 

JPickett

Very Active Member
Messages
2,632
There lots of new people here, and yeah they buy tags but there’s still not an over population of hunters. I still hunt all my same areas, don’t see guys where I hunt and fill all my tags. But I get what the OP is saying. My response personally is just keep out working the next guy
 

hornguy

Active Member
Messages
116
I have lived in Idaho for 30 yrs. If people don't think the doubling of the states population in the last 10 yrs hasn't and won't have a detrimental impact then go visit ut or wa. I think as residents we also need to pick one unit to hunt deer in like the nr. Having a draw for nr has zero effects, 12,000 tags is 12,000 tags given out. I have seen an increase of resident hunters and my usual places to hunt are more crowded. We can fix this by a few methods but blaming the nr is foolish. We could start a every other year buck hunt or cap the number of tags for the units that are really hurting. My 2 cents.
 

Moe

Active Member
Messages
132
I've seen an increase in weekend warriors frm Boisangeles ripping around on Razors. On and off the rds.But guys out hunting away frm the noise, hardly any. Picking one unit to hunt wouldn't hurt my feelings. Don't think we're there yet tho.
 

jvgunner

Active Member
Messages
117
I have lived in Idaho for 30 yrs. If people don't think the doubling of the states population in the last 10 yrs hasn't and won't have a detrimental impact then go visit ut or wa. I think as residents we also need to pick one unit to hunt deer in like the nr. Having a draw for nr has zero effects, 12,000 tags is 12,000 tags given out. I have seen an increase of resident hunters and my usual places to hunt are more crowded. We can fix this by a few methods but blaming the nr is foolish. We could start a every other year buck hunt or cap the number of tags for the units that are really hurting. My 2 cents.
Thank You!
 

ARROWHNTR

Active Member
Messages
451
I have lived in Idaho for 30 yrs. If people don't think the doubling of the states population in the last 10 yrs hasn't and won't have a detrimental impact then go visit ut or wa. I think as residents we also need to pick one unit to hunt deer in like the nr. Having a draw for nr has zero effects, 12,000 tags is 12,000 tags given out. I have seen an increase of resident hunters and my usual places to hunt are more crowded. We can fix this by a few methods but blaming the nr is foolish. We could start an every other year buck hunt or cap the number of tags for the units that are really hurting. My 2 cents.
I think this is a very accurate statement. The fact is it can’t stay the same forever with the growth Idaho is seeing. You cannot give unlimited tags for a very limited resource without it eventually having a detrimental impact. There are lots of examples in the west of how to do this successfully and how not to do it.

Utah waited too long 30 years ago to make a change and hunting got bad and it took years to recover from it. Hopefully Idaho can see the writing on the walls and at least start looking at options for the future.
 

hawkbill

Very Active Member
Messages
2,625
Idaho Fish and Game is owned by farmers, farmers like selling off their yearlings. Corn McDonald head biologist for Magic Valley got rid of hunters speaking at public meetings, it turned into his way or the highway, but they do have the secret Sharp Shooters team where you can sign up and get an Elk shot by the special team.
 

gundog2

Active Member
Messages
279
There lots of new people here, and yeah they buy tags but there’s still not an over population of hunters. I still hunt all my same areas, don’t see guys where I hunt and fill all my tags. But I get what the OP is saying. My response personally is just keep out working the next guy
That will work until it doesn’t and then it will be to late.
 

BBW

Member
Messages
26
Oh yes, it’s definitely a much different experience now than it was even 5 years ago, I’ve been concerned about the number of resident hunters, it’s very obvious. We have a few different favorite areas and they all get just pounded. It’s fine to try to outwork others, but that is getting hard to do that as well due to the growing number of residents.
LE is another problem, the fish and game does need to make changes to this program, Consider putting a limit on the LE application to one species per hunter, per year, if you apply for deer that’s it, not deer and elk in the same year, they could also add a year to the waiting period for those that draw a LE tag, something to give more hunters the LE opportunity. There are so many applicants it’s become extremely difficult.
 

OLDHORNHUNTER

Active Member
Messages
917
With the population exploding in Idaho most people have seen a steady decline in their hunting experience. More people, fewer animals and more pressure on the game that is there. My question is how far will the fish and game let it go before they make some changes. There are only so many animals and they can’t continue unlimited resident tag sales forever.

Full disclosure I am originally from Utah my wife was born and raised in Idaho and I have lived here for 4 years and hunted here for 25. So I am part of the problem, people moving here for a better quality of life.

When I first started hunting in Utah it was a lot like Idaho is now. They were struggling to deal with population growth and still giving opportunity. It got bad, real bad before they started making changes. Not saying Utah did everything right or wrong, but I always felt like I had plenty of opportunity to hunt every year, and the quality of the hunting approved dramatically.

Just interested to hear everyone’s take on what’s next for Idaho hunting. Does it stay the same and continue to get worse with more population? Or do they make some changes?
Idaho Fish & NO Game does NOT give a **** about the animals in Idaho PERIOD !!! If they did they would have been reducing tag #s & closing units years ago !! Take 2017 right after the BIG SNOW UT WY MT NV & OR all closed or reduced their units that were the Hardest hit with mortality !!! What did Idaho do NOT ONE DAMN THING not in 17 or since !!! opportunity for more $$ since we were still doing the OTC tags !!!
 

andrew12gauge

Active Member
Messages
659
Idaho Fish & NO Game does NOT give a **** about the animals in Idaho PERIOD !!! If they did they would have been reducing tag #s & closing units years ago !! Take 2017 right after the BIG SNOW UT WY MT NV & OR all closed or reduced their units that were the Hardest hit with mortality !!! What did Idaho do NOT ONE DAMN THING not in 17 or since !!! opportunity for more $$ since we were still doing the OTC tags !!!
Not necessarily true, they did reduce a lot of antlerless opportunity in the 2 years that followed that winter and I didn’t hear of any unit being closed completely in those other states
 

IDbulls

Active Member
Messages
134
Idaho needs to go to a points system and draw only for NR, just like Wyoming does. If I want to jump across the border and hunt a general elk tag in Wyoming, it takes 4 points, so once every 5 years (no accounting for creep). Why is it ok for NR to come hunt the best units of the state for elk every single year? We have nearly given up hunting archery elk where we grew up because the same large group from Utah is there every. Single. Year. Nice guys. Spend the majority of the season getting after it. But, come on. Go to a system like Wyoming, cut tags significantly, recoup revenue with the point system. It’s fair for Wyoming, let’s do the same here!
 

SS!

Long Time Member
Messages
6,897
Yeah actually it is true, keep your name calling for your Facebook account. Hero
Stop spreading lies chicken litttle. Just cuz you’re big beautiful women doesn’t mean you can spread lies here.
 
Last edited:

BBW

Member
Messages
26
Your read a few lines then formulate your macho man response. your small mind at work here. Clearly you are an insecure person as I’m always reading your little man replies, doesn’t matter what it is. Save them for facebook. You could have simply stated your opinion that you disagree but your too immature for that, little man.
I’ll say it again and then leave it be, a point system is the last thing Idaho needs, there are other ways to deal with issues.

no need to keep going little man, go smash a door or something macho
 

SS!

Long Time Member
Messages
6,897
Your read a few lines then formulate your macho man response. your small mind at work here. Clearly you are an insecure person as I’m always reading your little man replies, doesn’t matter what it is. Save them for facebook. You could have simply stated your opinion that you disagree but your too immature for that, little man.
I’ll say it again and then leave it be, a point system is the last thing Idaho needs, there are other ways to deal with issues.

no need to keep going little man, go smash a door or something macho
Cool story bro. But using scare tactics like you’ll hunt one time in your life is straight up lying and being deceitful. I never said ID needs a points system. Well Karen let’s hear all the other ways besides a point system to “fix” your perceived “problem” with ID.
 

Blank

Long Time Member
Messages
5,790
I have a lot of NR friends I take hunting every year. They have been satisfied with the one year wait out for antlered animals and antelope. Everyone gets a chance to apply, and are lucky or not. Universally, if it went to a mandated draw, they would want a guaranteed 10% allotment for NR tags, or more like Wy, with 20-40%. Idaho residents would never pay the difference that losing the NR's money would cause
 

Weiserbucks

Very Active Member
Messages
1,131
I would be in favor of:

Almost anything but a point system.

Call non res OTC tags ''general'' tags, Call non res controlled hunts ''premium'' tags.

Non Res, general tag, one species per year, 10% of the total tags, random draw. Pick a unit, do away with zones. Up to 4 allowed in a party application for general tags, no party applications for premium tags.

Non Res, successful premium tag hunt? 3 year waiting period. Unsuccessful? 2 year waiting period.

Res, successful controlled hunt? 2 year waiting period for all species. Unsuccessful? 1 year waiting period.

Res, one species only in the controlled hunt drawing. Pick a unit for OTC, do away with zones.


License and tag fees? Who cares, its all going to farmers/ranchers/sharpshooters and new F&G offices anyways. If my suggestions sound a little confusing, it's intentional. Most Idaho residents don't even read the regs and/or have poor reading comprehension and will screw up their application and increase my draw odds.
 

JPickett

Very Active Member
Messages
2,632
In reality theirs nothings to fix. I could give a rats ass if non residents have to sit online all day to not get a tag. Not going to change the amount of nr tags that get sold wether it’s a draw or not. Maybe if guys get sick enough of it we’ll get back to the days when I could buy a second deer tag basically any time. That’d probably the extent of what I really care about when it comes to NR tags.
 

freebird63

Active Member
Messages
356
I have yet to hear a hunter from a state that has a points system say its a good thing. Let the NR tags go to a points system. But the reality of it is the governor appoints the director of IDF&G and he or she is going to do what ever they dam well please, they have proven in the past they don't listen to us residents. Ranchers have more pull then sportsmen. The only way our voices are heard is at the ballot boxes. IDAHO does not need a POINT SYSTEM!!
If NR don't like our system is run, go else where. For too many years out of state hunters always referred to Idaho as their fall back state. Well maybe its time they fall elsewhere.
 

IDbulls

Active Member
Messages
134
I have a lot of NR friends I take hunting every year. They have been satisfied with the one year wait out for antlered animals and antelope. Everyone gets a chance to apply, and are lucky or not. Universally, if it went to a mandated draw, they would want a guaranteed 10% allotment for NR tags, or more like Wy, with 20-40%. Idaho residents would never pay the difference that losing the NR's money would cause
That’s why a point system for NR. They feel like they are getting somewhere, paying into the system in their “off years” Idaho could recover lost tag revenue by selling points. Cut tags, maintain revenue…win win.
Idaho gives away more than 10% of its tags already to NR. The only thing called is controlled hunts. Many zones have more NR tags sold to NR than residents.
 

OLDHORNHUNTER

Active Member
Messages
917
Not necessarily true, they did reduce a lot of antlerless opportunity in the 2 years that followed that winter and I didn’t hear of any unit being closed completely in those other states
The reduced a few damn doe hunts for kids !! I dont remember the exact closures but you can sure google the 2017 hunt regs per state !! Look back at the Idaho general & controlled tags from 2017 to present They DID NOT shorten any seasons or reduce tags #s in general or controlled hunts & have NO intention of doing so ! Hell in one article in 2017 they said in their own reports that 2017 was the 2nd lowest fawn survival in 20 years !!!
 

DownThePipe

Active Member
Messages
231
Reduce NR tags, no more general tags, and create point system for them. For NR and Resident controlled antlered hunts - longer waiting periods if you draw (2years) and even longer if you harvest (3years).

For mule deer - No doe or either sex hunting except for youth - period.

For every antlered controlled hunt, unsuccessful youth hunters are automatically put into a “final tag” draw for 1 additional tag draw opportunity for each unit.

Wildcard idea: For hunters aged 18-65, general deer tags must only allow harvest of 3 points on one side or larger. Turn the two point units into a controlled hunt in October.

Also need to spend more money on signage and enforcement on motorized abuse. And need to restrict shed hunting in terms of winter range disturbance.
 

lostinOregon

Very Active Member
Messages
1,879
It’s not so much of that the draw system is needed. It is how do you deal with over crowding and dwindling herds. Something has to give. Need healthy herds.
 

JPblind

Active Member
Messages
551
Just cap every unit with a certain amount of OTC tags. 20k hunters in one unit is dangerous. F and G can make up the lost revenue by selling popcorn outside albertsons.
 

freebird63

Active Member
Messages
356
I'm sure many if not most resident Idaho sportsman & sportswomen would be ok with tag & license cost being raised. I know I would. IDF&G just needs to do their part in rebuilding our mule deer herds, otherwise why waste the money.
 

ARROWHNTR

Active Member
Messages
451
Point systems and methods of tag distribution is a whole other discussion. I like the random system for controlled hunts. however if it when they start capping “general season” tags I know I would be pretty bummed if I didn’t get a tag for three or four years when others had one every year just do to luck if the draw.

Wildlife needs to be managed based on the biology and sustainability of the herds. This cannot be done with unlimited tags period. It has worked to a degree because of Idaho’s smaller population but those days are quickly coming to an end.
 

DownThePipe

Active Member
Messages
231
Re herds: Let’s start with controlled deer hunt 1068. 2000 tags for either sex deer in units 39 and 43 and the dates coincide w the general hunt. Why are we letting adults kill does in those two units? Same with hunt 1061. 250 antlerless deer tags in unit 44. Why? Is it opportunity? or truly no confidence in habitat?
 

OLDHORNHUNTER

Active Member
Messages
917
Re herds: Let’s start with controlled deer hunt 1068. 2000 tags for either sex deer in units 39 and 43 and the dates coincide w the general hunt. Why are we letting adults kill does in those two units? Same with hunt 1061. 250 antlerless deer tags in unit 44. Why? Is it opportunity? or truly no confidence in habitat?
Why are we killing does PERIOD !!! I highly doubt there is a unit in the entire state that has MORE animals than it can sustain naturally . Take 31 & 32 & 40 game units they are in the WORST condition in the 30 years !! 39 & 43 are in the same boat, more hunters every year than there are animals in the unit !! Yet F&G keeps pumping out does tags, extra tags, longer seasons WHY !! Its all about the $$$
 

BrianID

Very Active Member
Messages
1,996
Re herds: Let’s start with controlled deer hunt 1068. 2000 tags for either sex deer in units 39 and 43 and the dates coincide w the general hunt. Why are we letting adults kill does in those two units? Same with hunt 1061. 250 antlerless deer tags in unit 44. Why? Is it opportunity? or truly no confidence in habitat?
They have been pimping out the does in 39 for years. Unit 39 continues to produce very high numbers of deer. Maybe doe hunting isn't the problems but is the solution.
Allowing hunters to kill does with the exception of years after a bad winter may be a better management strategy.
 

boise

Active Member
Messages
145
Reduce NR tags, no more general tags, and create point system for them. For NR and Resident controlled antlered hunts - longer waiting periods if you draw (2years) and even longer if you harvest (3years).

For mule deer - No doe or either sex hunting except for youth - period.

For every antlered controlled hunt, unsuccessful youth hunters are automatically put into a “final tag” draw for 1 additional tag draw opportunity for each unit.

Wildcard idea: For hunters aged 18-65, general deer tags must only allow harvest of 3 points on one side or larger. Turn the two point units into a controlled hunt in October.

Also need to spend more money on signage and enforcement on motorized abuse. And need to restrict shed hunting in terms of winter range disturbance.
F&G has management objectives, you would need to change those before implementing your herd building plan. Never heard of game agency that operates with those restrictions. Bottom line is you want to limit harvest and eliminate antlerless hunting, and increase mature buck populations. Game agency’s all operate on scientific models, when you talk about eliminating antlerless hunting you lose credibility. Colorado had 3pt restrictions in 80’s didn’t go well Idaho tried it as well. Motorized abuse sucks but no agency has money to enforce. Habit loss and degradation is now a limiting factor. It’s not as bad as people think if your a resident get out and hunt I’ll take our opportunities over anyone else’s in lower 48.
 

DownThePipe

Active Member
Messages
231
F&G has management objectives, you would need to change those before implementing your herd building plan. Never heard of game agency that operates with those restrictions. Bottom line is you want to limit harvest and eliminate antlerless hunting, and increase mature buck populations. Game agency’s all operate on scientific models, when you talk about eliminating antlerless hunting you lose credibility. Colorado had 3pt restrictions in 80’s didn’t go well Idaho tried it as well. Motorized abuse sucks but no agency has money to enforce. Habit loss and degradation is now a limiting factor. It’s not as bad as people think if your a resident get out and hunt I’ll take our opportunities over anyone else’s in lower 48.
As a long time resident I don’t have any problem with the way things are at this moment. We manage for opportunity and all I care about are my youth opportunities. And I agree idaho residents have it good but we need to shift a bit more toward quality and better age class when it comes to mule deer. Other states experienced the growth we are now seeing 30 years ago, so they had to make the changes then that we need now. As far as your other thoughts - you bring up vaid points but things are a lot different now then they were back then. For example, 3 point restriction is a lot different in modern day now with high powered scopes, binoculars, and weapons… a lot different than the 80s. Anyway - it’s mostly moot as just like the non resident tag system, our IDFG will operate the way it always has - do something until is completely broken then keep doing it.
 

GSJ

Active Member
Messages
314
Re herds: Let’s start with controlled deer hunt 1068. 2000 tags for either sex deer in units 39 and 43 and the dates coincide w the general hunt. Why are we letting adults kill does in those two units? Same with hunt 1061. 250 antlerless deer tags in unit 44. Why? Is it opportunity? or truly no confidence in habitat?
I’m gonna say the habitat in both those units could sustain a lot more deer than what’s currently there.
Some will complain about depredation and vehicle encounters.
Not all that long ago a good hunter stood a reasonable chance to see a good buck up there. Those days are over by and large.
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos

Idaho Hunting Guides & Outfitters

Bearpaw Outfitters

Mule deer, whitetail, elk, cougar, bear, turkey, moose, sheep, grouse, waterfowl, bobcat and coyote hunts.

Urge 2 Hunt

We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, whitetail, bear, lion and wolf hunts and spend hundreds of hours scouting.

Jokers Wild Outdoors

Trophy elk, whitetail, mule deer, antelope, bear and moose hunts. 35k acres of private land.

Top Bottom