Idea for Win-win for deer and hunters!

[schoolhousegrizz]

This is nothing that has not been said before but if we get everybody on the same page with this maybe we could let our voices be heard through surveys, emails RAC meetings and other avenues.

I believe the tag numbers right now are 60% rifle 20% Muzzleloader and 20% archery.

Let's go 33% on all different weapons for the tag numbers.

Muzzleloaders are open sight only.

Make certain rules for trail cams, baiting Etc.

Heck, even increase the price of the tags by 10 to 15% to help out the dwr and our wildlife.

Nobody loses opportunity. We get more mature bucks and more bucks.

I have a hard time believing that just some simple changes like this would not help the deer herd immensely.

I just can't believe something like this has not been implemented already, maybe I am missing something?

So what do you all think?

Please click on this link and sign and date the form if you are in favor of this. I left off the part about open sights on muzzleloaders and restricting trail cams and bait. I know some people might not agree and may have some valid points about all that stuff. However, hopefully most of us agree that the long range rifle hunting and rifle hunting in general is a big factor in killing lots of our bucks. I will hand deliver it to the DWR office once we have as many signatures as we can get. Please share the link with other hunters that are in favor of this, thank you!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hBrXqsxHfhmjU_TDF30LdMXHS9pdmYMMcTCUqbq8yOk/edit?usp=drivesdk

 

[elkassassin]

If You're Biting in to Weaponry,it's more than Just SmokePoles!

Take Bows back to Recurves with Carved Cedar Shafts & Knapped Obsidian Broadheds!

Rifles will be One Shot LEVER'S & Open Sights!

Ya!

That'll Help!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Vanilla]

50% less rifle hunters out there competing with me during the season while sending all the competition for archery and muzzy?

I'm listening...

I assume this ends the extended archery completely, right?

 

[Dconcrete]

I love seeing people talk about ending the extended. Do you people actually believe that the extended hunts have anything to do with hunting opportunities?

The extended hunts are a way to keep the critters from
Off the roads, and out of the houses. And to keep them
From eating Mrs smiths fresh daisies. It doesn't have jack ##### to do with an actual hunt. So the idea to get rid of the extended hunts to INCREASE animals is absurd at best. That basically goes against why the extended hunts even exist.

 

[Vanilla]

I don't want to end the extended. If you doubled the archery tags, I think you'd have to. That's a lot of pressure on not much of a resource. Maybe if this 33% split happened then the archery tags are spilt. You choose either early season or extended season, but not both?

And the whole premise behind this idea posted above is we are killing too many deer, which I don't necessarily agree, but if that's true, I don't think we want to kill a bunch more on the extended. Particularly since you can shoot does.

 

[JakeH]

Put in there that the Life time licence holders can only get a rifle tag every 3 years. they can still select whatever archery and muzzy tag they want the other two years.






Jake H.

 

[ridgetops]

>Put in there that the Life
>time licence holders can only
>get a rifle tag every
>3 years. they can still
>select whatever archery and muzzy
>tag they want the other
>two years.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Jake H.
>

And have a max of 10 percent given to lifetimers and 10 percent to dedicated hunters.

 

[ThunderImpulse4]

>LAST EDITED ON Dec-25-19
>AT 01:11?AM (MST)
>
>
>This is nothing that has not
>been said before but if
>we get everybody on the
>same page with this maybe
>we could let our voices
>be heard through surveys, emails
>RAC meetings and other avenues.
>
>
>I believe the tag numbers right
>now are 60% rifle 20%
>Muzzleloader and 20% archery.
>
>Let's go 33% on all different
>weapons for the tag numbers.
>
>
>Muzzleloaders are open sight only.
>
>Make certain rules for trail cams,
>baiting Etc.
>
>Heck, even increase the price of
>the tags by 10 to
>15% to help out the
>dwr and our wildlife.
>
>Nobody loses opportunity. We get more
>mature bucks and more bucks.
>
>
>I have a hard time believing
>that just some simple changes
>like this would not help
>the deer herd immensely.
>
>I just can't believe something like
>this has not been implemented
>already, maybe I am missing
>something?
>
>So what do you all think?
>
>
>Please click on this link and
>sign and date the form
>if you are in favor
>of this. I left off
>the part about open sights
>on muzzleloaders and restricting trail
>cams and bait. I know
>some people might not agree
>and may have some valid
>points about all that stuff.
>However, hopefully most of us
>agree that the long range
>rifle hunting and rifle hunting
>in general is a big
>factor in killing lots of
>our bucks. I will hand
>deliver it to the DWR
>office once we have as
>many signatures as we can
>get. Please share the link
>with other hunters that are
>in favor of this, thank
>you!
>
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hBrXqsxHfhmjU_TDF30LdMXHS9pdmYMMcTCUqbq8yOk/edit?usp=drivesdk


So let's take a step back and think this over.

Say someone who shoots a modern compound bow for instance I shoot daily if not multiple times a day from 20 yards out to 60 or 70. I have steady groups of inch increments to their distance ( e.g., 2in group for 20 yards, 3in for 30 yards , ect). And I am proficient for the fact of if I get a shot at an elk or deer I am 100% confident in my capabilities and I DO NOT take a shot if the deer are on edge or anything else that will hinder my ETHICAL kill on said critter.

Now muzzleloader I was shooting 4-5 in groups at 100yards open sight with my muzzy and then the law came to allow scopes. 4in to 5in groups became 1in to 2in groups at 100. 4in groups at 200. I have the control to not take a shot past 150 yards but that is my decision. This helped increased my efficiency and accuracy.

Increase in tag prices 10% or more why not, because yes the DWR cares about making money it is a BUSINESS you idiots! They have thousands of employees that need to be paid and that includes officers, biologists, wildlife technicians, contractors, educators, ect.

For some people I can write this in crayon so it is easier for their brains to understand how business work and employees get paid. Yes, there is funding from different taxes and fund raising but there are salaries as well and trust me Officers, biologist, technicians do not get paid very much even when they earn degrees. I can say that first hand.

BUT, I do agree lets make changes and they don't have to be drastic and stop deer hunting like some people think we should. Go to RAC meetings make comments, write them down. Every great Idea starts by someone telling another person about it. Eventually someone will come up with an idea and it will make sense in all aspects.

WE ARE IN THIS TOGETHER EVEN THOUGH SOME PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO TEAR US APART.
Ethics is something that CAN determine if a deer is killed quick and effectively or limps off and dies without being found. PLEASE don't be stupid, used what you were taught in hunters education. Clean, ethical kills are what make us successful.

MERRY CHRISTMAS Y'ALL AND BE SAFE!

 

[elkassassin]

>>LAST EDITED ON Dec-25-19
>>AT 01:11?AM (MST)
>>
>>
>>This is nothing that has not
>>been said before but if
>>we get everybody on the
>>same page with this maybe
>>we could let our voices
>>be heard through surveys, emails
>>RAC meetings and other avenues.
>>
>>
>>I believe the tag numbers right
>>now are 60% rifle 20%
>>Muzzleloader and 20% archery.
>>
>>Let's go 33% on all different
>>weapons for the tag numbers.
>>
>>
>>Muzzleloaders are open sight only.
>>
>>Make certain rules for trail cams,
>>baiting Etc.
>>
>>Heck, even increase the price of
>>the tags by 10 to
>>15% to help out the
>>dwr and our wildlife.
>>
>>Nobody loses opportunity. We get more
>>mature bucks and more bucks.
>>
>>
>>I have a hard time believing
>>that just some simple changes
>>like this would not help
>>the deer herd immensely.
>>
>>I just can't believe something like
>>this has not been implemented
>>already, maybe I am missing
>>something?
>>
>>So what do you all think?
>>
>>
>>Please click on this link and
>>sign and date the form
>>if you are in favor
>>of this. I left off
>>the part about open sights
>>on muzzleloaders and restricting trail
>>cams and bait. I know
>>some people might not agree
>>and may have some valid
>>points about all that stuff.
>>However, hopefully most of us
>>agree that the long range
>>rifle hunting and rifle hunting
>>in general is a big
>>factor in killing lots of
>>our bucks. I will hand
>>deliver it to the DWR
>>office once we have as
>>many signatures as we can
>>get. Please share the link
>>with other hunters that are
>>in favor of this, thank
>>you!
>>
>>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hBrXqsxHfhmjU_TDF30LdMXHS9pdmYMMcTCUqbq8yOk/edit?usp=drivesdk
>
>
>So let's take a step back
>and think this over.
>
>Say someone who shoots a modern
>compound bow for instance I
>shoot daily if not multiple
>times a day from 20
>yards out to 60 or
>70. I have steady groups
>of inch increments to their
>distance ( e.g., 2in group
>for 20 yards, 3in for
>30 yards , ect). And
>I am proficient for the
>fact of if I get
>a shot at an elk
>or deer I am 100%
>confident in my capabilities and
>I DO NOT take a
>shot if the deer are
>on edge or anything else
>that will hinder my ETHICAL
>kill on said critter.
>
>Now muzzleloader I was shooting 4-5
>in groups at 100yards open
>sight with my muzzy and
>then the law came to
>allow scopes. 4in to 5in
>groups became 1in to 2in
>groups at 100. 4in groups
>at 200. I have the
>control to not take a
>shot past 150 yards but
>that is my decision. This
>helped increased my efficiency and
>accuracy.
>
>Increase in tag prices 10% or
>more why not, because yes
>the DWR cares about making
>money it is a BUSINESS
>you idiots! They have thousands
>of employees that need to
>be paid and that includes
>officers, biologists, wildlife technicians, contractors,
>educators, ect.
>
>For some people I can write
>this in crayon so it
>is easier for their brains
>to understand how business work
>and employees get paid. Yes,
>there is funding from different
>taxes and fund raising but
>there are salaries as well
>and trust me Officers, biologist,
>technicians do not get paid
>very much even when they
>earn degrees. I can say
>that first hand.
>
>BUT, I do agree lets make
>changes and they don't have
>to be drastic and stop
>deer hunting like some people
>think we should. Go to
>RAC meetings make comments, write
>them down. Every great Idea
>starts by someone telling another
>person about it. Eventually someone
>will come up with an
>idea and it will make
>sense in all aspects.
>
>WE ARE IN THIS TOGETHER EVEN
>THOUGH SOME PEOPLE ARE TRYING
>TO TEAR US APART.
>Ethics is something that CAN determine
>if a deer is killed
>quick and effectively or limps
>off and dies without being
>found. PLEASE don't be stupid,
>used what you were taught
>in hunters education. Clean, ethical
>kills are what make us
>successful.
>
>MERRY CHRISTMAS Y'ALL AND BE SAFE!
>

Are You a Long Ranger/Rifle Hunter?

Any Thoughts on that?

Or Just Archery & SmokePole?

All 3 Need Addressed!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[elkassassin]

One More Thing TW?

You Wouldn't happen to work for the UDWR Would you?







I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[ThunderImpulse4]

>>>LAST EDITED ON Dec-25-19
>>>AT 01:11?AM (MST)
>>>
>>>
>>>This is nothing that has not
>>>been said before but if
>>>we get everybody on the
>>>same page with this maybe
>>>we could let our voices
>>>be heard through surveys, emails
>>>RAC meetings and other avenues.
>>>
>>>
>>>I believe the tag numbers right
>>>now are 60% rifle 20%
>>>Muzzleloader and 20% archery.
>>>
>>>Let's go 33% on all different
>>>weapons for the tag numbers.
>>>
>>>
>>>Muzzleloaders are open sight only.
>>>
>>>Make certain rules for trail cams,
>>>baiting Etc.
>>>
>>>Heck, even increase the price of
>>>the tags by 10 to
>>>15% to help out the
>>>dwr and our wildlife.
>>>
>>>Nobody loses opportunity. We get more
>>>mature bucks and more bucks.
>>>
>>>
>>>I have a hard time believing
>>>that just some simple changes
>>>like this would not help
>>>the deer herd immensely.
>>>
>>>I just can't believe something like
>>>this has not been implemented
>>>already, maybe I am missing
>>>something?
>>>
>>>So what do you all think?
>>>
>>>
>>>Please click on this link and
>>>sign and date the form
>>>if you are in favor
>>>of this. I left off
>>>the part about open sights
>>>on muzzleloaders and restricting trail
>>>cams and bait. I know
>>>some people might not agree
>>>and may have some valid
>>>points about all that stuff.
>>>However, hopefully most of us
>>>agree that the long range
>>>rifle hunting and rifle hunting
>>>in general is a big
>>>factor in killing lots of
>>>our bucks. I will hand
>>>deliver it to the DWR
>>>office once we have as
>>>many signatures as we can
>>>get. Please share the link
>>>with other hunters that are
>>>in favor of this, thank
>>>you!
>>>
>>>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hBrXqsxHfhmjU_TDF30LdMXHS9pdmYMMcTCUqbq8yOk/edit?usp=drivesdk
>>
>>
>>So let's take a step back
>>and think this over.
>>
>>Say someone who shoots a modern
>>compound bow for instance I
>>shoot daily if not multiple
>>times a day from 20
>>yards out to 60 or
>>70. I have steady groups
>>of inch increments to their
>>distance ( e.g., 2in group
>>for 20 yards, 3in for
>>30 yards , ect). And
>>I am proficient for the
>>fact of if I get
>>a shot at an elk
>>or deer I am 100%
>>confident in my capabilities and
>>I DO NOT take a
>>shot if the deer are
>>on edge or anything else
>>that will hinder my ETHICAL
>>kill on said critter.
>>
>>Now muzzleloader I was shooting 4-5
>>in groups at 100yards open
>>sight with my muzzy and
>>then the law came to
>>allow scopes. 4in to 5in
>>groups became 1in to 2in
>>groups at 100. 4in groups
>>at 200. I have the
>>control to not take a
>>shot past 150 yards but
>>that is my decision. This
>>helped increased my efficiency and
>>accuracy.
>>
>>Increase in tag prices 10% or
>>more why not, because yes
>>the DWR cares about making
>>money it is a BUSINESS
>>you idiots! They have thousands
>>of employees that need to
>>be paid and that includes
>>officers, biologists, wildlife technicians, contractors,
>>educators, ect.
>>
>>For some people I can write
>>this in crayon so it
>>is easier for their brains
>>to understand how business work
>>and employees get paid. Yes,
>>there is funding from different
>>taxes and fund raising but
>>there are salaries as well
>>and trust me Officers, biologist,
>>technicians do not get paid
>>very much even when they
>>earn degrees. I can say
>>that first hand.
>>
>>BUT, I do agree lets make
>>changes and they don't have
>>to be drastic and stop
>>deer hunting like some people
>>think we should. Go to
>>RAC meetings make comments, write
>>them down. Every great Idea
>>starts by someone telling another
>>person about it. Eventually someone
>>will come up with an
>>idea and it will make
>>sense in all aspects.
>>
>>WE ARE IN THIS TOGETHER EVEN
>>THOUGH SOME PEOPLE ARE TRYING
>>TO TEAR US APART.
>>Ethics is something that CAN determine
>>if a deer is killed
>>quick and effectively or limps
>>off and dies without being
>>found. PLEASE don't be stupid,
>>used what you were taught
>>in hunters education. Clean, ethical
>>kills are what make us
>>successful.
>>
>>MERRY CHRISTMAS Y'ALL AND BE SAFE!
>>
>
>Are You a Long Ranger/Rifle Hunter?
>
>
>Any Thoughts on that?
>
>Or Just Archery & SmokePole?
>
>All 3 Need Addressed!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!

Long Range is another thing. I have friends that shoot long range and they shoot, shoot, and shoot some more. I have a scope that makes adjustments out to 500 yards. But, I have never shoot at a deer past 200, and that deer I killed with one clean shot. It is the same thing ethics is the key. If people are proficient in their abilities more power to them. I have met people that buy a long range gun, sight it in at 100 then shoot at a buck at 1000 without even practicing and learning their gun out to that range.

IF someone can make a clean kill at whatever range they feel comfortable shooting at them by all means go for it bud. But those that can't hit chit PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't. Get to the appropriate range and make that clean kill.

 

[elkassassin]

>>>>LAST EDITED ON Dec-25-19
>>>>AT 01:11?AM (MST)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This is nothing that has not
>>>>been said before but if
>>>>we get everybody on the
>>>>same page with this maybe
>>>>we could let our voices
>>>>be heard through surveys, emails
>>>>RAC meetings and other avenues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I believe the tag numbers right
>>>>now are 60% rifle 20%
>>>>Muzzleloader and 20% archery.
>>>>
>>>>Let's go 33% on all different
>>>>weapons for the tag numbers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Muzzleloaders are open sight only.
>>>>
>>>>Make certain rules for trail cams,
>>>>baiting Etc.
>>>>
>>>>Heck, even increase the price of
>>>>the tags by 10 to
>>>>15% to help out the
>>>>dwr and our wildlife.
>>>>
>>>>Nobody loses opportunity. We get more
>>>>mature bucks and more bucks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I have a hard time believing
>>>>that just some simple changes
>>>>like this would not help
>>>>the deer herd immensely.
>>>>
>>>>I just can't believe something like
>>>>this has not been implemented
>>>>already, maybe I am missing
>>>>something?
>>>>
>>>>So what do you all think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Please click on this link and
>>>>sign and date the form
>>>>if you are in favor
>>>>of this. I left off
>>>>the part about open sights
>>>>on muzzleloaders and restricting trail
>>>>cams and bait. I know
>>>>some people might not agree
>>>>and may have some valid
>>>>points about all that stuff.
>>>>However, hopefully most of us
>>>>agree that the long range
>>>>rifle hunting and rifle hunting
>>>>in general is a big
>>>>factor in killing lots of
>>>>our bucks. I will hand
>>>>deliver it to the DWR
>>>>office once we have as
>>>>many signatures as we can
>>>>get. Please share the link
>>>>with other hunters that are
>>>>in favor of this, thank
>>>>you!
>>>>
>>>>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hBrXqsxHfhmjU_TDF30LdMXHS9pdmYMMcTCUqbq8yOk/edit?usp=drivesdk
>>>
>>>
>>>So let's take a step back
>>>and think this over.
>>>
>>>Say someone who shoots a modern
>>>compound bow for instance I
>>>shoot daily if not multiple
>>>times a day from 20
>>>yards out to 60 or
>>>70. I have steady groups
>>>of inch increments to their
>>>distance ( e.g., 2in group
>>>for 20 yards, 3in for
>>>30 yards , ect). And
>>>I am proficient for the
>>>fact of if I get
>>>a shot at an elk
>>>or deer I am 100%
>>>confident in my capabilities and
>>>I DO NOT take a
>>>shot if the deer are
>>>on edge or anything else
>>>that will hinder my ETHICAL
>>>kill on said critter.
>>>
>>>Now muzzleloader I was shooting 4-5
>>>in groups at 100yards open
>>>sight with my muzzy and
>>>then the law came to
>>>allow scopes. 4in to 5in
>>>groups became 1in to 2in
>>>groups at 100. 4in groups
>>>at 200. I have the
>>>control to not take a
>>>shot past 150 yards but
>>>that is my decision. This
>>>helped increased my efficiency and
>>>accuracy.
>>>
>>>Increase in tag prices 10% or
>>>more why not, because yes
>>>the DWR cares about making
>>>money it is a BUSINESS
>>>you idiots! They have thousands
>>>of employees that need to
>>>be paid and that includes
>>>officers, biologists, wildlife technicians, contractors,
>>>educators, ect.
>>>
>>>For some people I can write
>>>this in crayon so it
>>>is easier for their brains
>>>to understand how business work
>>>and employees get paid. Yes,
>>>there is funding from different
>>>taxes and fund raising but
>>>there are salaries as well
>>>and trust me Officers, biologist,
>>>technicians do not get paid
>>>very much even when they
>>>earn degrees. I can say
>>>that first hand.
>>>
>>>BUT, I do agree lets make
>>>changes and they don't have
>>>to be drastic and stop
>>>deer hunting like some people
>>>think we should. Go to
>>>RAC meetings make comments, write
>>>them down. Every great Idea
>>>starts by someone telling another
>>>person about it. Eventually someone
>>>will come up with an
>>>idea and it will make
>>>sense in all aspects.
>>>
>>>WE ARE IN THIS TOGETHER EVEN
>>>THOUGH SOME PEOPLE ARE TRYING
>>>TO TEAR US APART.
>>>Ethics is something that CAN determine
>>>if a deer is killed
>>>quick and effectively or limps
>>>off and dies without being
>>>found. PLEASE don't be stupid,
>>>used what you were taught
>>>in hunters education. Clean, ethical
>>>kills are what make us
>>>successful.
>>>
>>>MERRY CHRISTMAS Y'ALL AND BE SAFE!
>>>
>>
>>Are You a Long Ranger/Rifle Hunter?
>>
>>
>>Any Thoughts on that?
>>
>>Or Just Archery & SmokePole?
>>
>>All 3 Need Addressed!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>
>Long Range is another thing. I
>have friends that shoot long
>range and they shoot, shoot,
>and shoot some more. I
>have a scope that makes
>adjustments out to 500 yards.
>But, I have never shoot
>at a deer past 200,
>and that deer I killed
>with one clean shot. It
>is the same thing ethics
>is the key. If people
>are proficient in their abilities
>more power to them. I
>have met people that
>buy a long range gun,
>sight it in at 100
>then shoot at a buck
>at 1000 without even practicing
>and learning their gun out
>to that range.
>
Yup!

"IF"

IF is a BIG Word!

Now My Question is this:

Do You Really Think We'll ever be able to Get All People/Hunters to Police their-selves as well as your Friends do?


>IF someone can make a clean
>kill at whatever range they
>feel comfortable shooting at them
>by all means go for
>it bud. But those that
>can't hit chit PLEASE, PLEASE,
>PLEASE don't. Get to the
>appropriate range and make that
>clean kill.











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[ThunderImpulse4]

To be 100% completely honest, I don't sadly. What we can do is help teach the new hunters this idea of proper ethics as it was taught to us and hope it helps. If there weren't the hunters that give the good ethical hunters a bad name hunting would be way better in numerous ways I would hope. But this is where we are, we need to help teach and inform in any way that we can.

 

[elkassassin]

>To be 100% completely honest, I
>don't sadly. What we can
>do is help teach the
>new hunters this idea of
>proper ethics as it was
>taught to us and hope
>it helps. If there weren't
>the hunters that give the
>good ethical hunters a bad
>name hunting would be way
>better in numerous ways I
>would hope. But this is
>where we are, we need
>to help teach and inform
>in any way that we
>can.


I Agree!

Just trying to Figure out How We'd do it?

I Think You're Right on Teaching the Younger Generation because the 'Old Bull Headed Bastages' Don't wanna change their ways!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Vanilla]

?Put in there that the Life time licence holders can only get a rifle tag every 3 years. they can still select whatever archery and muzzy tag they want the other two years.?

Who is buying my muzzleloader with accessories and all my archery equipment for me? I can send my address for delivery, upon receipt, I'll support this.

 

[JakeH]

>?Put in there that the Life
>time licence holders can only
>get a rifle tag every
>3 years. they can still
>select whatever archery and muzzy
>tag they want the other
>two years.?
>
>Who is buying my muzzleloader with
>accessories and all my archery
>equipment for me? I can
>send my address for delivery,
>upon receipt, I'll support this.
>
LMAO your only entitled to a tag, nothing else, what kind of fairy land do you live in. Hell after thinking this over maybe we need to make all rifle hunts LE if you want your deer tag you choose one from the archery and muzzy hunts.

The only reason I even suggested this is you seemed pretty keen and almost giddy at the idea and then suggested taking away the Extended Archery hunt, just seemed like a douchey and Sh!t stiring move, figured I could put my only ladle in and stir it as well.

There are a lot more of us out there that can push to have something done with the Life time tag holders. And don't think they can't figure something out, it's only a matter of time. You guys had a good run but it won't last.

I think right now there ain't enough of you with them for the DWR to make to big a fuss over, but you guys get the public ryled up and force there hand and that won't last, comments like yours here and on other posts are not good for your cause, I suggest being a little less flashy with your status.


Jake H.

 

[elkassassin]

>?Put in there that the Life
>time licence holders can only
>get a rifle tag every
>3 years. they can still
>select whatever archery and muzzy
>tag they want the other
>two years.?

What Difference will that Make?

They're getting a Tag of Some Kind for Life!


>
>Who is buying my muzzleloader with
>accessories and all my archery
>equipment for me? I can
>send my address for delivery,
>upon receipt, I'll support this.
>

I Knew You Had a bunch Of High Dollar/High Tech Equipment!

I'll Buy You a Red Shirt after You Get The Herd Back to where it should be!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[grizzly]

>?Put in there that the Life
>time licence holders can only
>get a rifle tag every
>3 years. they can still
>select whatever archery and muzzy
>tag they want the other
>two years.?
>
>Who is buying my muzzleloader with
>accessories and all my archery
>equipment for me? I can
>send my address for delivery,
>upon receipt, I'll support this.
>

Probably whoever promised you that they had to buy you a rifle because a Lifetime License apparently guarantees government-supplied equipment too. It's not just a tag, but they have to supply the weapon for that tag too. Yeah, that makes sense.

And if they open a new road, they have to buy you an ATV to use on it. And when they legalized x-powered muzzleloader scopes they had to replace everybody's that already had a 1x scope. I'm pretty sure that was in the fine print.

I say let the LL holders keep their rifle tags, but it's gonna be for the Salt Flats and Western Box Elder county only. DWR still has the right to manage weapons, seasons, and units as they see fit.

The "Lifetime License Snowflake Syndrome" has run its course.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

I would go for lifetime license holders only get a rifle tag every 3 years, if they were taking too many of the rifle tags.

 

[elkassassin]

>>?Put in there that the Life
>>time licence holders can only
>>get a rifle tag every
>>3 years. they can still
>>select whatever archery and muzzy
>>tag they want the other
>>two years.?
>>
>>Who is buying my muzzleloader with
>>accessories and all my archery
>>equipment for me? I can
>>send my address for delivery,
>>upon receipt, I'll support this.
>>
>
>Probably whoever promised you that they
>had to buy you a
>rifle because a Lifetime License
>apparently guarantees government-supplied equipment too.
>It's not just a tag,
>but they have to supply
>the weapon for that tag
>too. Yeah, that makes sense.
>
>
>And if they open a new
>road, they have to buy
>you an ATV to use
>on it. And when they
>legalized x-powered muzzleloader scopes they
>had to replace everybody's that
>already had a 1x scope.
>I'm pretty sure that was
>in the fine print.
>
>I say let the LL holders
>keep their rifle tags, but
>it's gonna be for the
>Salt Flats and Western Box
>Elder county only. DWR still
>has the right to manage
>weapons, seasons, and units as
>they see fit.
>
>The "Lifetime License Snowflake Syndrome" has
>run its course.

Hey grizzly!

The Day You Try Screwin with the LL Holders is the Day I'd bet you're gonna see an Up-Rising with a good Percentage of them Showing up to let everybody know they Ain't Giving their Licenses up!


>
>Grizzly
>
>-----------------------------------------
>
>Ask yourself if you agree with
>the following statement...
>
>"It's time to revisit the widely
>accepted principle in the United
>States and Canada that game
>is a public resource."
>-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as
>quoted in Anchorage Daily News
>











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[elkassassin]

And One More Thing!

I'd bet a few of them on their Own Free Will would trade their Rifle Tag for a Bow/Muzz Tag?







I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[grizzly]

Elkassassin, they already get to choose which weapon they want each year.

As the Administrative Rules state, "(a) Effective January 1, 2012 all lifetime license holders must initially select a general season hunting unit during the Big Game application period as established in the guidebook of the Wildlife Board for taking big game."

The solution is easy as the Wildlife Board clearly has amended the rules already, just classify the general season units from which they choose in the guidebook to certain areas. DWR clearly still has the ability to limit seasons and areas for LL holders. It never was a blank check that the WB could never alter seasons, weapons, units, etc for a certain number of people that bought what has clearly since been decided as a poor idea with little further support.

The whining, catering, and #####-footing around for LL guys is getting really old. Meet the letter of the law if needed, but beyond that make the changes that need to be made for the herds.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News

 

[elkassassin]

Hey grizzly!

It'll Take more than anything you can Spin with the LL Holders I Guarantee it!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Vanilla]

JakeH, get riled up and seek revenge. I'm sure that will make you have warm fuzzies at night. Get out those pitch forks and go after those evil LL holders! Your threats have me scared, for sure.

You missed the point, not surprisingly. Why tell me what weapon I have to hunt with? Everyone else gets to choose, why not let me have the choice as well? Because as a 13 year old that couldn't even big game hunt yet I had the foresight to use my own money and purchase a lifetime license? I guess that means you can force me into hunting with weapons I don't own and don't want to own? Seems like the American way, for sure.

If you're going to tell me I HAVE to have an archery tag, then I'll tell you to supply me with the bow. That sword cuts both ways, if we're telling each other what we HAVE to do.

 

[elkassassin]

Just Remember Niller!

With the HELL-RIGHT Plan!

You Won't Be out too Much on a Recurve!







I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[grizzly]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-19 AT 00:14AM (MST)[p]> Hey grizzly!
>
>It'll Take more than anything you
>can Spin with the LL
>Holders I Guarantee it!

Haha. Yep. As I've already said, I haven't had a Utah GS deer tag in nearly two decades so I really don't have a dog in the LL fight. It's annoying to hear them whine all the time about life being unfair, but I'm mainly on this thread just because I like messing with Vanilla. It's some top shelf entertainment!

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News

 

[elkassassin]

Yes Niller!

I Know you can Spend some Big Money on a Recurve!

But I Found you a Package Deal that's reasonable:

I Know Generations that would have Loved to have something this Good!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Samick-Sag...=1738506461745bd891d10f7c4865a328d366031d913a









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[elkassassin]

I'll Bet Manufactures are Working on a Long Range Recurve as We Speak!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[JakeH]

LMAO, you dont like having sh!t tossed back your way do ya, I was offering you some advice, stop your bragging and sh!t stiring or its gonna turn on ya, I caught your subtle jab in your post above.

I don't care how you got your entitled licence, it won't last, at least not in the same way you get it now.

We wouldn't be forcing you into anything, you have the same opportunity as everyone else to get a rifle tag, or your can have your entitlement tag in archery or muzzleloader.

I along with thousands of others never had the opportunity to buy a LL, doesn't mean we cant effect what happens to them going forward in the future.




Jake H.

 

[huntin50]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-19 AT 10:46AM (MST)[p]This thread was created to brainstorm ways to help our struggling deer head.

My Dad and 3 brothers have had life time licenses for over 30 years. Between all of us during the past 20 plus years we have shot less than 5 deer combined. Every year we pass up smaller bucks, we are involved in conservation work and projects. I seldom hunt in Utah general season. So our family of lifetime licenses have SAVED a lot of deer over the years, if those same tags were issued to the general public, I'm sure many of those smaller bucks we passed on would have been shot.

Nothing wrong with brain storming ways to improve our deer herd.

The DWR counts on the Cache deer unit buck to doe ratio were 16 bucks to 100 does. The problem is we are WAY BELOW population objectives.

Lets just talk the Cache unit.
1. Way more deer get killed by cars than hunters. SEE UDOT data.
2. There are way too many lions for how many deer we have.(You can't kill female lions with kittens.) If all adult lions were killed except females with kittens, you would likely still have too many lions for our struggling deer numbers.

3. Coyote too many for how many deer. You need to get rid of 60-70% of the population, or coyotes will bounce back fast if they have adequate food supply.

4. Bobcats. About 1/3 of the collared fawns were killed by Bobcats, before the were one year old. BYU research.

Weather related mortality accounts for significant loss. Winter kill, droughts, nutrition/fat reserves, etc. We have no control.

Elk populations are lower than objectives as well.

Restricting hunters can help some.

Too many predators
More cars and roads
weather related mortality

All three would help our deer herds MUCH more than changing weapons and hunting.

Sorry for doom and gloom. We need to work on ALL the above things to help our struggling deer herd.

Out of 50 fawn that were collard 49 were dead before they were one year old.

Cutting hunting tags, changing seasons and restriction on weapons, would not have saved ONE fawn. We have a recruitment problem. We do need some older class bucks breeding does. WE NEED TO FOCUS ON RECRUITMENT and survival.

 

[yoteduster]

Well put hunting 50 that's pretty much the status of the whole state

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-19 AT 12:32PM (MST)[p]Yes well put huntin50. I think you're right and I could be off the mark on restricting Hunters by weaponry. That is just the easiest one to control. No doubt we have a lion and coyote problem that needs to be taken care of. Any ideas on how to do that. I thought about letting Hunters shoot a mountain lion in place of their deer tag like they do in Idaho, and add Bobcats to the list.It wouldn't kill many cats but it would kill some. Coyotes already have a bounty on their head. Maybe for every 10 coyotes you kill you get your name in for a hunt drawing, haha ?

 

[Camper_A1]

As proof from the people that have responded to this post it would be impossible for us to come together and restrict weapons. A lot of people have a lot of money invested in their guns, muzzleloader and bows. I think it would save some deer but not enough to make a big difference. I think all of us can agree more predator control, more fencing along the roadways and possibly more feeding programs in the harsh winters. Hopefully most would get behind this sort of effort. I'm sure cars kill more deer than hunters every year.

 

[fullthrottle]

?We need some older age class bucks breeding the doe?s? A-freakin-men!

 

[elkassassin]

>?We need some older age class
>bucks breeding the doe?s? A-freakin-men!
>

There Needs to be 'Some' Older Age Class Bucks Left come Rut Time!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[middlefork]

>As proof from the people that
>have responded to this post
> it would be impossible
>of people have a lot
>of money invested in their
>guns, muzzleloader and bows. I
>think it would save some
>for us to come together
>and restrict weapons. A lot
>deer but not enough to
>make a big difference.
>I think all of us
>can agree more predator control,
>more fencing along the roadways
>and possibly more feeding programs
>in the harsh winters. Hopefully
>most would get behind this
>sort of effort. I'm
>sure cars kill more deer
>than hunters every year.

Seems like feeding is a lot like baiting as far as negatives?

I can't even imagine the cost associated with trying to fence / make overpasses for game to reduce the numbers killed by cars. While it works pretty good for the areas they have done it there are hundreds of miles that need it.

 

[middlefork]

>>?We need some older age class
>>bucks breeding the doe?s? A-freakin-men!
>>
>
>There Needs to be 'Some' Older
>Age Class Bucks Left come
>Rut Time!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!

So who is it that is eliminating all those older age class bucks?
Seems like a few on here are part of the problem.

There are going to be young deer make it through to live to get bigger every year.

If I agree to not shoot a "pisscutter" can I get a tag every year? How about 4 point or better? A tag every year? 30" or better a tag every year?

I can't honestly remember the last deer I shot but I enjoy being able to go out and decide if I want to shoot one or not.

 

[elkassassin]

>>As proof from the people that
>>have responded to this post
>> it would be impossible
>>of people have a lot
>>of money invested in their
>>guns, muzzleloader and bows. I
>>think it would save some
>>for us to come together
>>and restrict weapons. A lot
>>deer but not enough to
>>make a big difference.
>>I think all of us
>>can agree more predator control,
>>more fencing along the roadways
>>and possibly more feeding programs
>>in the harsh winters. Hopefully
>>most would get behind this
>>sort of effort. I'm
>>sure cars kill more deer
>>than hunters every year.
>
>Seems like feeding is a lot
>like baiting as far as
>negatives?
>
>I can't even imagine the cost
>associated with trying to fence
>/ make overpasses for game
>to reduce the numbers killed
>by cars. While it works
>pretty good for the areas
>they have done it there
>are hundreds of miles that
>need it.

Hundreds?

Try Thousands!

The Amount of Animals Slaughtered By Vehicles in TARDville every year is Un-Countable!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Camper_A1]

We could raise the price of deer tags and Designate it for fencing. Maybe some of the millions made at the expo could also towards it.

Not sure about the baiting comment,
Feeding deer in harsh winters would help and we're not hunting them then.

 

[Vanilla]

Taking some of the millions of dollars made by SFW at the expo for specific wildlife fencing and over/underpasses was mentioned in Bessy?s thread. You want the expo? 25% of the gate goes directly to those projects only. Wouldn?t be hard to require it, but since the WB is just their past leadership, that won't ever happen.

 

[Camper_A1]

That's true SFW basically controls everything that happens with Utah wildlife. If we could only convince them that it was their idea first it would have a chance.

 

[Deepcolor]

Please explain the ?mature bucks breeding does? comment. Do mature bucks provide a better breeding experience for the does?

 

[huntin50]

Deep

Their is research that show if you have adequate buck to doe ratio, with older bucks in that ratio, does get bred more when they come into estrus. If you get the majority of does bred in the first cycle, the majority of fawns drop about the same time,(instead of a 3 month period), this can increase survival rates, compared to low buck ratios and immature bucks. Some does will wait for a larger more dominant buck to bred her and is bred in the second or third cycle. This creates smaller fawns to survive winter, predators, and smaller fawns to survive deep snows. A couple years ago I watched a doe get bred in Mid February. That fawn would have had no chance to survive in Northern Utah.

To those who are SFW haters.

SFW helped get funds for migration tunnels, highway fencing, worked with UDOT for signs in areas where high road kills were happening.

SFW helped get funds for flying for coyotes and funds for coyote bounty.

SFW were the main group to pass Prop 5 to protect hounding, so we could manage cougars and protect trapping.

SFW has help pay for emergency deer feeding, even before the DWR kicked in.

SFW has help pay for collaring research with the BYU and deer feeding studies, to help find out why we are having poor recruitment.

SFW has done a lot of habitat restoration projects.

SFW has been the main group to relocate deer from problem areas instead of just killing them.

Although I don't agree with everything SFW does, and their isn't a perfect group. They often don't get the credit for them trying to solve the big problems when it comes to our struggling deer herds. They have a strong record of trying. Deer herds are struggling all over the west.

 

[Vanilla]

huntin50 is correct, SFW does deserve some credit for the positive things they have done. They do some things that deserve to be celebrated. Those good things should not mean that the obvious negatives are ignored. It yes, they do positive things for our wildlife and for our hunters.

That research on mature bucks breeding does is out there, but it's not settled science, from my understanding. I will admit some level of ignorance here as I'm not a biologist and have not spent a ton of time researching this. But my understanding is there are biologists and those that spend time researching this that dispute the credibility of that study. It absolutely makes sense that fawns born later in the year have less of a chance. I think the qualm comes from if anything like buck age/maturity actually makes a difference on that one. I'd like to see more conclusive research done on that so we can begin to know one way or another. I say ?begin to know? because in science, do we ever REALLY know? Seems to be an ever changing/evolving understanding of even what we thought were well-established principles.

 

[ridgetops]

I personally would like to see a ratio of 50 percent to rifle, 30 percent for muzzy and 20 percent for archery. I don't like the 33 percent across the board. All that does is make the point creep go through the roof on rifle tags and a lot easier for the archery guys.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-27-19 AT 09:53AM (MST)[p]https://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos_2019/71713img11591.jpg look at the technology on these guns


why not just get rid of scopes period if they can do it why can't we.

 

[huntin50]

Elk,
Technology is part of the problem, I agree. Guns, optics, range finders, trail cams, etc.

Back in those days we also didn't have near as many roads, cars, homes on winter range, we used poison to control coyote and lion populations, etc. We definitely live in a different world.

Those poor hunters couldn't make a 1,000 yard shot, use google earth to scout, watch multiple trail cams from home, have their gortex clothing to keep them warm, adjustable bipod or shooting sticks, wind measurement devices, topo maps, GPS, etc.

We are better killers now days.

There are a lot more people living in Utah.

 

[fullthrottle]

Science this, biology that. I guess I'm old school, it just seems kinda interesting that the big time horse, cattle folks want the biggest, baddest, mature stud/bull doing the breeding. A little common sense would go a long way, imo.

 

[elkassassin]

>Please explain the ?mature bucks breeding
>does? comment. Do mature bucks
>provide a better breeding experience
>for the does?

Gonna SPLAIN Something to you DC!

Back in the Banner day of Mule Deer it wasn't a Big Deal if 2 Points were doing alot of the Breeding!

Why?

Because even though they were only 2 Points they were packing Good Genetics!

In today's World:

A PISSCUTTER Spike or 2 Point doing the Breeding Ain't the Same!

Their Dad'd were Spikes and Their Dad's Dad were Spikes and their Dad's Dad's Dad were Spikes and so on!

JUNK Bucks doing the Breeding = JUNK Bucks in the Future!

It Ain't hard to Figure it out!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Deepcolor]

Lebron James grandson will still be packing some magic in his man chowder.

 

[Vanilla]

Bessy, I'm just a dumb red neck most days, so understand that I don't declare any knowledge or authority on this topic.

But are you suggesting genetics change as a buck gets older? If a buck breeds as a spike (Just for the sake of argument...), and then 4 years later as a big mature 4x4, isn't he still passing along the same genetics? If we're simply talking genetics, what does the age of the dad matter? He certainly didn't look the same in these two instances, but were the genes the same?

I bred offspring at age 25, 28, and 31. While my body looked different each time, didn't I pass on the same genetics each time?

 

[elkassassin]

>Bessy, I'm just a dumb red
>neck most days, so understand
>that I don't declare any
>knowledge or authority on this
>topic.
>
>But are you suggesting genetics change
>as a buck gets older?
>If a buck breeds as
>a spike (Just for the
>sake of argument...), and then
>4 years later as a
>big mature 4x4, isn't he
>still passing along the same
>genetics? If we're simply talking
>genetics, what does the age
>of the dad matter? He
>certainly didn't look the same
>in these two instances, but
>were the genes the same?
>
>
>I bred offspring at age 25,
>28, and 31. While my
>body looked different each time,
>didn't I pass on the
>same genetics each time?


Hey Niller!

You Didn't Read Post # 48 I Take it?










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Deepcolor]

I disagree with the famous post #48. Very few deer have the genetics to be 200? but young bucks are still packing the same genes at 18 months as they will have at 6 years old. The argument of the good genes being shot out of a unit or region seems like doomsday propaganda to me.

I also think the trophy hunter is very outnumbered by the average hunter that is content with average deer. This fact makes Elkassasin a minority in the great state of Utah.

 

[Vanilla]

It's funny to see trophy hunters complain about all the big bucks having been shot out.

Something ironic about that, huh?

And the biggest baddest bull on the range has the same genes at 2 years old as he does at 7 years old. That's the thing about genetics: they don't change with age!

 

[elkassassin]

>It's funny to see trophy hunters
>complain about all the big
>bucks having been shot out.
>
>
>Something ironic about that, huh?
>
>And the biggest baddest bull on
>the range has the same
>genes at 2 years old
>as he does at 7
>years old. That's the thing
>about genetics: they don't change
>with age!

You Boys Still Ain't Payin A-F'N-TENTION!

You're Correct when the Herd Is Healthy!(The Deer Herd in TARDville is Not Healthy!)

That's Why back in the Banner Day of Mule Deer it didn't Much Matter if the 2 Points were doing alot of the Breeding!(They Still had Good Genetics!)

90% of these Modern Day 2 Points/Small Bucks are JUNK & will Never be anything but JUNK!

You Two Best get out of the House a little bit More!

And As far as DC Thinking He's a Pro on the Utah Deer Herd He Ain't got a F'N Clue!

But He Did Prove He's Just an Average PISSCUTTER Pounder and doesn't really care about Herd Quality/Management!

Keep Poundin them Boys!

I Can't wait to See You Sportin your 2 Points around here in a few years like You've Took some kind of trophy!

In another Post Where I Said we need to see some Mature Bucks or even some decent Bucks left at Rut Time, it's nothing more than Proof there'd be some Shooter Bucks for Guy's Blowing their Umpteen LE Points in Hopes in a Chance at a Decent Buck the Following Year,But you two can't see that!

Not All Bucks doing the Breeding need to be Big,But it sure would be nice if Most Deer had Good Genetics which they Don't due to many Reasons including PISS POOR Management!

Use that ROUND THANG atop your shoulders Once in a While!













I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[elkassassin]

>It's funny to see trophy hunters
>complain about all the big
>bucks having been shot out.

Seems as You were Liable on at lest one Buck We know about!


>
>
>Something ironic about that, huh?
>
>And the biggest baddest bull on
>the range has the same
>genes at 2 years old
>as he does at 7
>years old. That's the thing
>about genetics: they don't change
>with age!

Kinda what I've been sayin Niller!

Alot of Our Modern Day Deer are JUNK at Birth & are Still JUNK throughout their Life Span of Maybe,Maybe,Maybe 3-1/2 Years at most on average!

It's F'D Up & You Still Don't wanna admit it!

Sounds like You Riled JakeH Up!

He's after your LL and/or the way You're gonna be Hunting in the Future with that LL!

Can't Wait to see You Packin that HAWKEN & that RECURVE!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Vanilla]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-19 AT 10:10AM (MST)[p]Naaah, he got himself worked up. Sometimes when you come into something with a chip already on your shoulder, your response is not always equal to the original statement.

Bessy, where did all the bad genetics come from? If the herd used to have great gentics, and now it's junk, what is to blame? Was it because trophy hunters are targeting only the biggest, most aesthetically appealing bucks and leaving all the small pisscutters to do all the breeding? Because if you really believe genetics don't change with age (which you should, since it's true), and you're saying that it isn't the age, but that the genetics are junk these days, who is responsible for that? It certainly isn't because these weak inferior bucks have overpowered the big powerful studs. What is to blame for all the big buck genetics getting taken out of the herd?

Still want to ALL CAPS me over shooting a two point? (And since I didn't hunt this year on my tag a single day, next year is likely a ?first legal buck? year for me, so get ready to yell at me!)

Still want antler point restrictions?

Asking these questions for a friend out in the Basin. He seems to be a bit confused. ;-)

 

[Deepcolor]

Best get out of the house he says! Interesting advice coming from your dumpy ass.

Maybe get off the road every now and again. Carry on, I am out.

 

[elkassassin]

>LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-19
>AT 10:10?AM (MST)
>
>Naaah, he got himself worked up.
>Sometimes when you come into
>something with a chip already
>on your shoulder, your response
>is not always equal to
>the original statement.
>
>Bessy, where did all the bad
>genetics come from? If the
>herd used to have great
>gentics, and now it's junk,
>what is to blame? Was
>it because trophy hunters are
>targeting only the biggest, most
>aesthetically appealing bucks and leaving
>all the small pisscutters to
>do all the breeding? Because
>if you really believe genetics
>don't change with age (which
>you should, since it's true),
>and you're saying that it
>isn't the age, but that
>the genetics are junk these
>days, who is responsible for
>that? It certainly isn't because
>these weak inferior bucks have
>overpowered the big powerful studs.
>What is to blame for
>all the big buck genetics
>getting taken out of the
>herd?
>
>Still want to ALL CAPS me
>over shooting a two point?
>(And since I didn't hunt
>this year on my tag
>a single day, next year
>is likely a ?first legal
>buck? year for me, so
>get ready to yell at
>me!)
>
>Still want antler point restrictions?
>
>Asking these questions for a friend
>out in the Basin. He
>seems to be a bit
>confused. ;-)

So Niller?

Now you're gonna Start Hunting like Most TARDS?

"Shoot the First PISSCUTTER You See"?

I Guess You Won't be Letting that Little Bastard have a Chance to see if He Might Turn out like your PAUNS Buck?

With a LL Why the HELL would You Shoot the First Dink You see?

Is that a Challenge?

Do You need the Meat?

BRAGGIN Rights?

WTH?













I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Vanilla]

This isn't meant to be flippant or rude, but the answer is- because I want to.

I don't overthink this stuff. And October is a long way away, so we'll see how I feel then. But if I want to kill a buck I see, I will. If I don't want to, I won't.

 

[elkassassin]

>This isn't meant to be flippant
>or rude, but the answer
>is- because I want to.
>
>
>I don't overthink this stuff. And
>October is a long way
>away, so we'll see how
>I feel then. But if
>I want to kill a
>buck I see, I will.
>If I don't want to,
>I won't.

I Think You've been Cooped up in the City too Long!

That Stuff will Work on You about 24/7/355!

Then Holy #### them 10 Days with your LL Watch the Hell Out!

Somethings Dieng,LOL!

I Guess I Look at it a little Different!

I Don't hardly Ever Remember Shooting the 1st Buck I Seen on any Crack of Daylight on any Opening Morning even though I Should have a couple times in My Day Thinking:Oh I'll be able to find Him again but to No Avail!

But to alot of TARDS they've gotta have the BRAGGIN RIGHTS of:"I Got One" or "I FILLED MY TAG" How Bout You,Did You Fill Your Tag?

I Can Proudly Honestly Say there's been Many a Times when "I Didn't Get One"!

But Remember one Thing Niller:

If some of these Guys Get their way You'll be Investing in some New Equipment to even use that LL!















I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[DoubleDropMuley]

I'm one to think that the baiting is ridiculous!! Never realized they let that be a thing out west until last few years!! Apples ?‍

 

[1shot1miss]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-19 AT 10:10AM (MST)[p]Naaah, he got himself worked up. Sometimes when you come into something with a chip already on your shoulder, your response is not always equal to the original statement.

Bessy, where did all the bad genetics come from? If the herd used to have great gentics, and now it's junk, what is to blame? Was it because trophy hunters are targeting only the biggest, most aesthetically appealing bucks and leaving all the small pisscutters to do all the breeding? Because if you really believe genetics don't change with age (which you should, since it's true), and you're saying that it isn't the age, but that the genetics are junk these days, who is responsible for that? It certainly isn't because these weak inferior bucks have overpowered the big powerful studs. What is to blame for all the big buck genetics getting taken out of the herd?

Still want to ALL CAPS me over shooting a two point? (And since I didn't hunt this year on my tag a single day, next year is likely a ?first legal buck? year for me, so get ready to yell at me!)

Still want antler point restrictions?

Asking these questions for a friend out in the Basin. He seems to be a bit confused. ;-)

I’m actually curious too as to why the genes got killed off. I think the big mature bucks are being killed off, not the genes...

 

[Vanilla]

Those become one in the same thing over time. If you are killing only the best bucks before they have a chance to breed, and leaving only the "undesirable" left, eventually the undesirable genes will take over. It's not immediate, but it will happen over time.

 

[elkassassin]

Those become one in the same thing over time. If you are killing only the best bucks before they have a chance to breed, and leaving only the "undesirable" left, eventually the undesirable genes will take over. It's not immediate, but it will happen over time.

GOOD GAWD!

That Really Come out of your Mouth Niller?

I Take it there are alot of People Not Seeing what's really going on with the Herds?

 

[Vanilla]

That Really Come out of your Mouth Niller?

Nope, I typed it!

 

[deadibob]

I love how Jake H and all these other redistribution of wealth socialists think they can take from others for their own benefit because they didn't have the foresight to buy a lifetime license.
Boo fuggin' Hoo!

I didn't have the opportunity to buy one??. Guess what Jake, all of us have missed opportunities in life, that's what makes life a *****.

 

[grizzly]

Deadibob, your posts above are some of the least helpful and most uncalled-for posts I remember seeing in a long time. Shameful

 

[JakeH]

I love how Jake H and all these other redistribution of wealth socialists think they can take from others for their own benefit because they didn't have the foresight to buy a lifetime license.
Boo fuggin' Hoo!

I didn't have the opportunity to buy one??. Guess what Jake, all of us have missed opportunities in life, that's what makes life a *****.

Awe I hurt his feelings, does somebody need a nap and a warm glass of milk. I'm not jealous at all bob, good on you for jumping on the opportunity when it came along. But that said it wont last they will have to do something in the near future with our deer herds, and I predict it will affect you LL holders.

And I didn't miss sh!t, I never had the opportunity to get it there is a big difference, you will see how big a b!tch life is when they take your entitlement program away from ya.

Ohh and your the one taking hand outs from the government due to an entitlement you feel you deserve. Real cute calling me the socialist. ??????

 

[Vanilla]

A lifetime license is only an “entitlement” if you define entitlement by paying market value for a good or service and then expecting to receive said good or service in return for that payment. If I go to the Megaplex and pay $17 for a luxury recliner seat, is it me being “entitled” to expect to sit in that seat when I walk in theatre 8? That’s not how I define entitlement, personally.

They may make changes to how things work with the lifetime licenses, but I doubt it. Here just simply isn’t that many lifetime license holder left alive. There are even less than that number that are getting a deer tag. (Remember, it’s a lifetime combination license too. I know of people that have one that have never obtained a deer tag in 30+ years.) Plus, there will absolutely be a lawsuit coming against the state if they do anything to materially change the benefit received. Who knows who would win that suit? But it’s coming if these big changes were to happen. Again, for the small number of these things still floating around, I just don’t think it’s worth the trouble.

If you’re looking to correct issues with the deer herd and looking at lifetime licenses as the evil to correct, you’re going to be really disappointed when it’s all said and done, even if you somehow got them totally eliminated. You won’t notice a difference after that was done, and you’ll have to find a new boogey man to chase.

 

[JakeH]

Vanilla, I never said the LL holders were the evil that would correct the issues. I believe the changes that will be made will affect you guys. You guys create a loop hole that doesn't allow the DWR to manage the resource the way they need to. When it takes years to draw a tag but the LL guys get one every year they will make changes. They are doing all they can to "reduce point creep" but in the end its just going to keep getting worse and I see you guys ending up on the chopping block.

But like I said before, keep bragging it up and laughing at all us guys not in your system, that was the only reason I brought any of this up. There are more of us than you and we can affect change, you get enough people looking at it and the DWR will be forced to find a solution. They have already taken units out of the system that you all used to be able to hunt and made them LE units.

 

[elkassassin]

They're coming for your LL Niller!

 

[DeerHunter53]

I'm one to think that the baiting is ridiculous!! Never realized they let that be a thing out west until last few years!! Apples ?‍

they bait with water softener pellets they are salt. I saw this in Big John's neighborhood at Fish Lake a few years back. I walked out of camp and saw a doe about 60 yards from camp. I wanted to see how close I could get to her and I walked right up to her 10 yards away and she didn't run. So I walked over to the camp site of a big group and saw the gut piles from two deer not far from the doe. The whole time that doe just stood there and crunched away. Some sport that must have been to shoot those deer baiting that way......

 

[Vanilla]

But like I said before, keep bragging it up and laughing at all us guys not in your system, that was the only reason I brought any of this up.

Who is bragging about anything? Who is laughing at people that don't hold LL? Candidly, I'm laughing at your completely unreasonable reactions in this thread. I mean, have you read what you've been writing? You really are sounding a bit whiney on this one. Go back and read all your posts above. There are clearly some sour grapes here. It really isn't anything to be upset about. Not sure why you've made this such a target and mission for yourself?

 

[Vanilla]

They're coming for your LL Niller!

I've told you Bess...they can pry it out of my cold, dead, hands! Right along with my camo loin cloth!

 

[JakeH]

Who is bragging about anything? Who is laughing at people that don't hold LL? Candidly, I'm laughing at your completely unreasonable reactions in this thread. I mean, have you read what you've been writing? You really are sounding a bit whiney on this one. Go back and read all your posts above. There are clearly some sour grapes here. It really isn't anything to be upset about. Not sure why you've made this such a target and mission for yourself?

Vanilla, not in this thread you haven't and maybe my argument is a bit dis jointed because of it. But when all this started up there was some discussion about limiting tag numbers among rifle hunts in particular you was all for it joking about how you would enjoy having less competition since you would have a tag every year. There was a few other posts like this. Maybe I read to much into your posts, but
by bragging about your situation, you made me form my opinion it probably never would have even been a thought in my head had you not acted the way you did in other posts.

But the more I thought about it, I see it being a problem for the DWR in the future unless there is a miraculous turn around in the deer herds.

And its not a mission, or a target, like I said good on you guys that took advantage at the time, enjoy it while it lasts. Hell it might last forever but I don't think it will.

 

[Vanilla]

I did make the joke about getting a rifle tag with no competition, but it was just that- a joke. I’ve been more than clear on this forum in my defense and support for MORE tags to be issued, not less.

Tag reductions would absolutely benefit me. Yet I speak out against them every time that topic comes up. So yes, you read too much into one post versus literally dozens and dozens of others where I always argue in favor of hunters having tags in their hand. All hunters, not just lifetime license holders.

 

[deadibob]

Jake H, Two questions for you. What is your definition of "ENTITLEMENT"? You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

What makes you think these lifetime licenses will not last? What is your definiton of "LIFETIME"? You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[elkassassin]

I Think Niller got His Loin Cloth in a Wad!