Important to weigh BH 209??

txhunter58

txhunter58

Long Time Member
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Please tell me why I should weigh BH 209 for hunting with open sights in Colorado this September with max range at 150 yards. Todays session:

75 yards
Knight LRH
95 gr BH 209. ***BY VOLUME***
Lot # 30
Williams peep, front fiberoptic, 6 O’Clock hold
350 gr lead Federal BOR lock bullet

Last 3 shots were all in the bullseye. That is a 2” bullseye. Need to shoot farther and tweak sights, but that is for another day. Was already almost 90 degrees when I quit, and getting windy.

This was the first session with my new Lehigh breech plug and went from 90 to 95 gr of BH. So had to do some adjustment of sights. I fill my powder measure, tap 3 times, cut off, and pour in gun. I think I will stick with volume for hunting!

As long as you realize you need to adjust your sights a bit when you get a new powder lot # I see no reason to go to the trouble of weighing powder.
A1DDFB57-C834-4007-AD86-7C93BD987725.jpeg
 
Blank said:
Yess indeed! Wish my old eyes would do as good. :)
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I think part has to be luck. ?. Good load and good rifle, but part of the reason I quit was I didn’t want to ruin my groups. ?

I’m 64. Can’t read anything anymore without reading glasses. I shoot the Williams twilight peep and a small front green fiberoptic post. But with a naked eye, I see 2 fiberoptic posts. ? So I have to use 1X reading glasses. Clears the front sight up but blurs the target a bit.

Fired off a bench with sandbags helps a bunch too! Either way, I won’t be spending time weighing charges. If I ever take up hunting with a scope, and extend my range, I would have to take a look at that again.
 
So when you fumble with loading that follow-up shot, do you use the readers? Or do you wear one of those chain thingys? :ROFLMAO:

Lots of folks dragging fish out this weekend. I was surprised by how many. CPW advertising I guess.
 
I just do 110 volume in a cva LR 290gr tez 100 yds and touching holes, i m not going to take time and weigh every single load when i can shoot lights out, dont get me wrong after hours and hours of internet research and lots of questions on here i know whats up there are 2 people that know what there talking about for muzzys i like elk assasin and diablo ask them
 
Bluehair said:
So when you fumble with loading that follow-up shot, do you use the readers? Or do you wear one of those chain thingys? :ROFLMAO:

Lots of folks dragging fish out this weekend. I was surprised by how many. CPW advertising I guess.
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What follow up shot? They all
Drop in their tracks! ?

No limit on the fish I suppose. Guy who bought my practice is going up to the cabin August 6. Hope there are some left!
 
txhunter58 said:
What follow up shot? They all
Drop in their tracks! ?

No limit on the fish I suppose. Guy who bought my practice is going up to the cabin August 6. Hope there are some left!
Click to expand...
Yup, fish salvage. There might be a few left, but it sure looks like more interest this time ‘round. We drove around the lake and talked to a few and it wasn’t just locals this time.

And the weather is glorious. :cool:
 
txhunter58 said:
Please tell me why I should weigh BH 209 for hunting with open sights in Colorado this September with max range at 150 yards. Todays session:

75 yards
Knight LRH
95 gr BH 209. ***BY VOLUME***
Lot # 30
Williams peep, front fiberoptic, 6 O’Clock hold
350 gr lead Federal BOR lock bullet

Last 3 shots were all in the bullseye. That is a 2” bullseye. Need to shoot farther and tweak sights, but that is for another day. Was already almost 90 degrees when I quit, and getting windy.

This was the first session with my new Lehigh breech plug and went from 90 to 95 gr of BH. So had to do some adjustment of sights. I fill my powder measure, tap 3 times, cut off, and pour in gun. I think I will stick with volume for hunting!

As long as you realize you need to adjust your sights a bit when you get a new powder lot # I see no reason to go to the trouble of weighing powder.View attachment 81317
Click to expand...
Could be better if you weighed your loads. Could be alot better, could be a little better. Might be the same. But probably better.
 
elkantlers said:
Could be better if you weighed your loads. Could be alot better, could be a little better. Might be the same. But probably better.
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I really doubt you’d see any difference at 75 yards with open sights. Volume or weight - not going to make a noticeable difference.
 
elkantlers said:
Could be better if you weighed your loads. Could be alot better, could be a little better. Might be the same. But probably better.
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Maybe, but I hunt with a muzzleloader. Don’t target shoot. What benefit would I get from spending the extra time to weigh? With my eyes, there is no way I am shooting past 150 yards with open sights.
 
Nice shooting TX. I just found a load the works well in my muzzlerloader and just pulled the scope off. I hope I can get groups like that with open sights. I do have the Williams globe and sight but I'm going to try with just open sights and see how that goes. I am going to weight my charges to keep the velocity the same but I looks like there is no need to.
 
txhunter58 said:
Maybe, but I hunt with a muzzleloader. Don’t target shoot. What benefit would I get from spending the extra time to weigh? With my eyes, there is no way I am shooting past 150 yards with open sights.
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Could be better if you weighed your loads. Could be alot better, could be a little better. Might be the same. But probably better.

I really couldn't care less if you weigh each load or dip it with a spoon. I was doing my best (bad) Trump impression which flew over your head like an un-weighed muzzleloader shot. ;)
 
elkantlers said:
Could be better if you weighed your loads. Could be alot better, could be a little better. Might be the same. But probably better.

I really couldn't care less if you weigh each load or dip it with a spoon. I was doing my best (bad) Trump impression which flew over your head like an un-weighed muzzleloader shot. ;)
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And a good impression it was. I just need to loosen up, not take myself so seriously, and widen my gaze a bit! Sometimes looking thru peep sights gives me tunnel vision!?
 
txhunter58 said:
I think part has to be luck. ?. Good load and good rifle, but part of the reason I quit was I didn’t want to ruin my groups. ?

I’m 64. Can’t read anything anymore without reading glasses. I shoot the Williams twilight peep and a small front green fiberoptic post. But with a naked eye, I see 2 fiberoptic posts. ? So I have to use 1X reading glasses. Clears the front sight up but blurs the target a bit.

Fired off a bench with sandbags helps a bunch too! Either way, I won’t be spending time weighing charges. If I ever take up hunting with a scope, and extend my range, I would have to take a look at that again.
Click to expand...
Same problem with my bow now. I might be 5 years younger than you, but this having to wear glasses for the past few years has been a pain in the butt. Still good shooting!!
 
LIK2HNT said:
Same problem with my bow now. I might be 5 years younger than you, but this having to wear glasses for the past few years has been a pain in the butt. Still good shooting!!
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You don’t have to wear glasses to shoot a bow! You can buy a clarifier. Basically it is a reading glass built into your peep sight. Have you tried one? Not sure why no one has done that to a peep sight for guns. Maybe wouldn’t stand up to rifle recoil? But a bow string concussion isn’t mild either.
 
txhunter58 said:
You don’t have to wear glasses to shoot a bow! You can buy a clarifier. Basically it is a reading glass built into your peep sight. Have you tried one? Not sure why no one has done that to a peep sight for guns. Maybe wouldn’t stand up to rifle recoil? But a bow string concussion isn’t mild either.
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Thanks
Will look into that.
 
I have had cortisone injections twice in my neck and if I exceed 90-95 gr of BH my neck hurts for weeks. But don’t like how lead sled ect feels. Use one occasionally if I need to work up a load to get it in the vicinity but can’t use it to make those final adjustments. POI is different. Recoil arrestors are great, as long as hearing protection is ALWAYS used
 
txhunter58 said:
I have had cortisone injections twice in my neck and if I exceed 90-95 gr of BH my neck hurts for weeks. But don’t like how lead sled ect feels. Use one occasionally if I need to work up a load to get it in the vicinity but can’t use it to make those final adjustments. POI is different. Recoil arrestors are great, as long as hearing protection is ALWAYS used
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WHAT?? ??
I have tinnitus (ringing in ears) and it sucks.
Have had a couple people shoot large caliber rifles with breaks next to me without warning. Can leave your ears ringing for awhile. ??
 
txhunter58 said:
Please tell me why I should weigh BH 209 for hunting with open sights in Colorado this September with max range at 150 yards. Todays session:

75 yards
Knight LRH
95 gr BH 209. ***BY VOLUME***
Lot # 30
Williams peep, front fiberoptic, 6 O’Clock hold
350 gr lead Federal BOR lock bullet

Last 3 shots were all in the bullseye. That is a 2” bullseye. Need to shoot farther and tweak sights, but that is for another day. Was already almost 90 degrees when I quit, and getting windy.

This was the first session with my new Lehigh breech plug and went from 90 to 95 gr of BH. So had to do some adjustment of sights. I fill my powder measure, tap 3 times, cut off, and pour in gun. I think I will stick with volume for hunting!

As long as you realize you need to adjust your sights a bit when you get a new powder lot # I see no reason to go to the trouble of weighing powder.View attachment 81317
Click to expand...
Good shooting btw. Looks like your doing great. Here’s an experiment to try. Fill your powder measure up differently for 10 measurements. Pour it in fast to the top on one. Pour in in slowly on another. Tap the sides of the vial while filling another. You will likely see an average of 8-10 grains of weight difference in the powder. 10 grains of powder increase yields a gain of 100 fps in most 50 cal muzzys. That probably won’t change your impacts much out to 150 yards.

But since there’s a lot more to this game like clean barrel/fouled barrel/ temperature that increase speed as temp goes up/ seating pressure on the round/ force needed to push the round down the barrel increases speed on the round. Also how the powder is poured down the barrel (it’s compression) has the same affects as noted above. If you tap the sides of your barrel to settle the powder your speeds will also increase.
These secondary issues make the game a lot more complex and can add or take away another 200 fps on velocities. And now the zero has changed by 3-4” at 100 yards -making the 150 yard shot non repeatable.
If you load by volume get a good repeatable routine down that will get you within a few grains on actual weight and you’ll be good to go.
In summary -I believe the secondary issues as mentioned are by far more important than weighing when shooting out to 150 yards. If you shoot further weighing will become more important.
I patch between shots on a few muzzys and don’t on another. Every gun has its own recipe - your doing well with yours.

Hope the above helps answer some concerns.
 
I tap the loaded vial ten time each on my bench. It seems to work on keeping the same amount of powder in each vial.
 
(I) weigh it. Going volumetric gives a +/- error depending on the powder settling if you tamp the measure tube/flask or not and whether, or how, consistent you are.

Weight doesn't have a variance.
 
The reason I love to hunt with a muzzleloader is the same reason I like to fly fish and bow hunt. We all have small differences in how we go about our preperation. As long as you are pacticing and are proficient to your comforable range...good luck this season.

I wiegh my BH 209 and get great accuracy. I like a parchute adams for just baout every type of trout fly fishing. I prefer Spott Hogg Slider archery sight.

With my BH209 weight method, I can swithch differnet powder lots and maintane about 8 FPS SD. I get great accuracy but my eyes are the real limiting variable. I shot my biggest buck ever with a muzzleloader and when I started I was simply doing a by volume load. Just another thing to tinker with and have my wife get mad at me for dropping small pieces of BH 209 on the table.
Shoot straight and good luck this season.
 
I’m going to sideline this post for an informational addition to blackhorn 209. My experience has been that different lots of powder change velocities up to 150 fps so if you have access to a chrony -check your speeds.
Blackhorn also claims that their powder is not corrosive and that is a true and a false statement. The residue left behind after firing a round is hydroscopic (absorbs moisture from the air). See the attached pic that was taken on a 60 degree day with (fog) high humidity. You will see the residue turning into a liquid. If this is happening where you can see it - it’s also happening where you don’t see it. I have seen blackhorn residue rust and pit stainless barrels. My advice is to keep the bore as clean and dry as possible. Put a balloon over the end of the muzzle when hunting. A spent/already fired primer or a dummy primer in the ignition side to seal it as well. I also dry patch between shots to minimize this issue.
FYI - I was shooting from a covered facility in high humidity. All of my components and muzzy were dry. Only the muzzle brake showed signs of being wet -about 1 min after firing. My dry patch down the bore came out wet -it took another patch to assure the bore was dry. If left wet - you can experience 200 fps slower speeds and misfires.
I live in Utah where humidity (20-30%) is very low 99% of the year. If it’s happening here it could be worse where you live.

I personally weigh all of my powder - but there are other factors that need to be considered to keep your speeds consistent. Manufacturers claims can also be misleading and true at the same time. I hope this helps a few prep better for the field.
A69EE469-3A36-4AF0-B6C8-6FAE706A959C.jpeg
 
I weigh mine personally. I’m sure it stems from shooting archery tournaments from years ago, but repeatability & consistency are everything to me. That and I’m just a bit anal when it comes to stuff like that. Lol
 
I know that it is a fact that it is more accurate to weigh powder. And when I retire and shoot more, I might actually do it myself.

That said I remind you of my opening sentence:

“Please tell me WHY I SHOULD weigh BH 209 for hunting with open sights in Colorado”

No one given me a reason that I need to do it for my hunt. Because there isn’t one. Open sights out to maybe 120 yards won’t make enough difference to worry about missing. You might beat me on score at the range, but not with an animal harvested.

The only reason that gave me pause is the lost grains of BH 209 when I cut off the powder. That IS a valid reason

Point being, we can always tweak something if we have enough time and desire. But the return on the extra work and time isn’t enough to make me need to switch.
 
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txhunter58 said:
I know that it is a fact that it is more accurate to weigh powder. And when I retire and shoot more, I might actually do it myself.

That said I remind you of my opening sentence:

“Please tell me WHY I SHOULD weigh BH 209 for hunting with open sights in Colorado”

No one given me a reason that I need to do it for my hunt. Because there isn’t one. Open sights out to maybe 120 yards won’t make enough difference to worry about missing. You might beat me on score at the range, but not with an animal harvested.

The only reason that gave me pause is the lost grains of BH 209 when o cut off the powder. That IS a valid reason

Point being, we can always tweak something if we have enough time and desire. But the return on the extra work and time isn’t enough to make me need to switch.
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I say to each his own… If what you are doing works for you, then do it. Based off of your shooting, with open sights it looks great to me. I struggle to find time to pacify my idiosyncrasies, but for my own peace of mind I find the time.
At the end of day we all have our own reasons for what we do or don’t do.
I’m sure my wife would prefer to see me cleaning the windows vs weighing powder charges & dropping powder on her clean kitchen floors. Lol
 
txhunter58 said:
I know that it is a fact that it is more accurate to weigh powder. And when I retire and shoot more, I might actually do it myself.

That said I remind you of my opening sentence:

“Please tell me WHY I SHOULD weigh BH 209 for hunting with open sights in Colorado”

No one given me a reason that I need to do it for my hunt. Because there isn’t one. Open sights out to maybe 120 yards won’t make enough difference to worry about missing. You might beat me on score at the range, but not with an animal harvested.

The only reason that gave me pause is the lost grains of BH 209 when I cut off the powder. That IS a valid reason

Point being, we can always tweak something if we have enough time and desire. But the return on the extra work and time isn’t enough to make me need to switch.
Click to expand...
Txhunter.
I’m not in opposition to what is working for you. My posts are trying to show that there’s a lot of other reasons to make a shot go south besides the weight of the powder. Humidity, loading pressure, bore fouling, ignition systems and many other factors can throw a shot out more than the weight of the powder by using volume as an example. It looks like your doing great and if you keep your shots to 120 yards I’m sure it will work well for you. But keep in mind that a follow up shot on a high humid day could drop your speeds enough to miss at 120 yards. I’ve seen shots drop 12” on paper at 100 yards in those conditions. Again this has nothing to do with how your measuring your powder. Just another example of what can go wrong. But maybe it has only happenned to me. I’ve been playing the game for over 30 years with black powder and all the substitutes. None of them are exempt from the above issues and that includes blackhorn 209. I love blackhorn powder but it’s not perfect. I have taken good detailed notes on all of the variables. I’m getting really close to possibly understanding how it works but I’m still learning. Best of wishes in getting your question answered.
 
I didn’t take your posts in any negative light. There is some good info there. I have been shooting for over 35 years, have more guns than I need, and have shot just about every powder and bullet or roundball there is. But I shoot muzzleloader to hunt, not to notch paper.

Lately, the posts have been more “you should be weighing powder” and I want readers just starting out in blackpowder to understand that they don’t have to do that unless they just want to. The accuracy you gain out to even 200 yards is negligible.

Here is my newest gun (in 54 cal) made by a friend of mine for me. Real black (my choice) and roundball shooter only gun. Have shot it with 777 but just didn’t feel right.

And to be sure, I will only measure out my powder for this rifle by volume! ?
 
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Here is another guy who is doing ok with volume measuring

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