Interesting article, worth looking at.

this is a joke. NR take it in the shorts in NM these days. one thing that Brandon Winn fails to realize is the outfitted pool can include residents as well as NR so I don't think he can be 100% certain that residents are getting shorted 4% of the tags. I think they should do away with the outfitted pools all together and go 90% resident and 10% NR. if a guide is worth a ##### he will still have plenty of business.
 
Interesting read. I don't think much of NM Wildlife Federation but NM game and Fish has never treated the residents fairly. Maybe they will do some good
 
?I'd love to sue over it,? Munoz said. He said he had talked to several family members and all of them had failed to draw any licenses this year.

If you are not drawing tags as a resident of New Mexico you have nothing to blame but your draw strategy.

Here are the draw odds for the elk tags I tried to draw as a non-resident (left) and the same draw odds for residents (right):

0.9% 7.0% (7X better draw odds)
2.5% 18% (7X better draw odds)
6.7% 52% (8X better draw odds)

If no one in his family drew any licenses that is on them and I wonder if he would share the details of that claim. Did only one person apply? Did they all try to draw 16A and the Caldera? I am going to call BS on that claim, he has a very small family, or their draw strategy sucks.

But by all means follow your instincts and sue over it...that is probably the correct action. Makes for a great sound bite.

New Mexico is the 2nd most reliant state in the US on federal funding. I know the whole 'states control the game' thing but if you cut non-residents too much we will have little incentive to care what the feds do to 'change' what is allowed on federal lands. Seriously, enough with the attacking of non-residents especially a state that receives so much federal funding and a state that has so much federal land.
 
To me its simple. Eliminate the Outfitters draw. Its nothing more than a Government subsidy.

As far as NR getting the shaft in the state, NR always get the shaft. In Montana the costs are outrageous. In Utah it takes forever to draw and LE hunt for elk. In AZ you have to build points for years until you can draw a decent tag.

90% residents 10% NR and the tie goes to the Residents. Simple.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-25-19 AT 05:38PM (MST)[p]90:10 would benefit both residents and nonresidents. As a nonresident I would gladly accept any allotment greater than 6%. :)
 
To me its simple. Eliminate the Outfitters draw. Its nothing more than a Government subsidy.

As far as NR getting the shaft in the state, NR always get the shaft. In Montana the costs are outrageous. In Utah it takes forever to draw and LE hunt for elk. In AZ you have to build points for years until you can draw a decent tag.

90% residents 10% NR and the tie goes to the Residents. Simple.



I rarely agree with anything LT has to say but I agree with this.
90% - 10% makes sense. If you need an outfitter hire one on their merits not to make it easier to draw.
Jack
 
"If you are not drawing tags as a resident of New Mexico you have nothing to blame but your draw strategy."

Not true. No way no how. There is no strategy for NM, otherwise we would have pulled more than one tag in our household.

According to your reasoning and me putting in for hunts that often have a large amount of tags going to 2nd and 3rd choice applicants, I should've drawn my first choice elk, and my youth hunter should've drawn their 2nd choice off range oryx.

And then there is the crowd who pulled multiple tags, same hunts I put in for and hunts much more difficult to draw.

Explain that one. Easy. There is no strategy.
 
My wife and I have drawn at least 1 tag each if not more (mostly more) for 8 years. Yes strategy and doing math and studying draw odds works.
 
Cosmic,

I feel like this is a big step in our relationship.

because i care about you and want you to have a fantastic weekend, i wanted to let you know that i will be hunting Wolves this year. Im going to dedicate the hunt to you!
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-26-19 AT 01:30PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-26-19 AT 01:29?PM (MST)

Roadrunner, I definitely believe that having a strategy plays a part in draw results. Luck or bad luck does as well, I look at the tags with no reasonable chance of drawing.OIL Bighorn, OIL Oryx, OIL Ibex and pronghorn. Me personally I think of these a bonus tags. If I get lucky and draw one that's great but at less than 5% drawing ORYX and pronghorn and Ibex and Bighorn OIL at less than 1% I don't plan on it and I haven't drawn any of them.

Now elk and deer are what I feel I have a reasonable chance of drawing my strategy is as follows.

1. I archery hunt for elk, this increases my odds immediately, Muzzleloader next and the worst odds are with a rifle.

2. I study the harvest reports how many hunters vs. harvest some low demand tags have great harvest %.

3. I stagger my choices. for example.
1st choice 2nd season archery draw odds at 13%
2nd choice 2nd season archery draw odds at 25%
3rd choice 1st season archery draw odds at 40%

deer I have all rifle tags and believe it or not some resident deer draws with a rifle are higher than 80%. so if you apply the strategy as above with the lowest odds of drawing say the caldera, then 6c and then an 80% draw area you almost guarantee you see a little more green. You also get a chance at those incredible area with your first choice. But as someone said if you put in rifle elk tags like 1st choice rifle in the Caldera, 2nd 16D Rifle and 3rd 34 rifle you are going to have to wait a long time before you draw. Those are all draws at less than 6% success rate.

So using this strategy I drew elk and deer last year and this year. 2nd choice elk both times in the same area, 1st choice deer last year and 3rd this year and a bonus female immature IBEX this year.

I applied the same strategy to my family members and all of them drew a Premium rifle deer tag and my 12 year old drew A muzzleloader tag in an incredible area.

This works for Non residents as well. My dad a non resident has drawn deer 2 years in a row.

Hope this helps.

Sorry this is so long
 
I've kept my same applying strategy every year. Some years I draw some I don't.
But I believe that NM should go to the Colorado-Arizona system to where all applicants need to have a hunter safety #. I believe this would free up some tags that are been given out to residents that will never see the mountains, but some family member will utilize that tag.
Just saying !!
 
>Cosmic,

>I feel like this is a big step in our relationship.

>because i care about you and want you to have a fantastic weekend, >i wanted to let you know that i will be hunting Wolves this year. >Im going to dedicate the hunt to you!


LOL... Hunting Wolves ? Make sure you target one with a collar on.
And post up a pic... but make sure to put a stick in its mouth so we can see the fangs. And make the hide into a rug to snuggle on in front of the fireplace. GL KILL a big one.
Jack
 
When this happened, the guide and outfitters were very organized and lobbied for their interests. I do agree that it should be two pools, resident and non-resident. No outfitter pool. It will take legislative action to accomplish. We just need to get organized or at least speak up when bills get introduced or when the game commission opens the rules.
 
I agree. 90% resident and 10% non-resident. That would follow suit with all other states.

Easy to say there is a draw strategy until you know people who draw the same type of difficult to draw tags year after year after year...

Luck and the odds being in your favor is what it is.
 
Ok I was a resident for almost 5 yrs and now I'm a NR. This ideology is total BS. A large portion of NM public lands are national forests...this means they are owned by the citizens of the entire country. To say that NR don't have a right to be able to have a chance to draw and hunt those lands without forking over even more money than NR tags already are, is total BS man.

If people would just have a smart strategy for applying, drawing tags every yr wouldn't be a problem. When I was a resident, put both my wife and I into the draw, and was smart about my strategy...we never didn't draw at least something. Plus, as a res, you'll have access to leftover tags that NR won't. This complaining about not drawing is getting really old...

>100% of the public tags should
>go to residents. NR's
>can buy land owner tags.
>
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-27-19 AT 12:39PM (MST)[p]Rooinfool, we've always got along great on this forum man, but inclined to agree with LT here. I believe we've had this conversation several times in the past few years, regarding getting rid of the O.F. pool, it's been suggested to g&f at meetings, it all ends up falling on def ears. Same way most of our email and presence at the meetings regarding switching the 3 hunt system in Gila back to two was completely disregarded.
Since we are kind of on the subject, another thing I would love see go away are UW elk tags. The last meeting held in Albuquerque I attended a landowner who owned a substantial amount of land is having to contend with people dividing what started out as 100 acre plot and dividing it year after year into small portions but under a different family members name who are getting more bull tags than him, and the elk winter on his ranch and eat the cattles hay. We suggested a minimal amount of acerage be made at 1000 acres to even be looked at for the program. Were completely ignored. Example a LO in 16b is receiving multiple tags for a 40 acre lot. That imo is no where near a adequate trade off to receive UW tags.
I'd just like to see them get rid of it and be put in the public draw.
Okay, rant over.. just another thing that is ass backwards.
 
The UW tags are just a way to let the cheaters get some tags. When you get UW tags this opens up your land to the public. Why ? Because you don't care if the public hunts your land because there are no Elk there. Its only to get UW tags you can then sell to the highest bidder. The ranches with Elk will NEVER let the public on or get UW tags because they have Elk. Some of these land owners are getting UW tag with less than 10 acres. So... buy 10 acres and get a tag you can sell for 8 to 10 Grand.... It will pay yer taxes.
Jack
 
NM is not far from being comparable to the other states in regards to NR/R tag allocations. The only issue I got is the 10% to outfitters. I think that is high. I think that if it existed at all it should be 5% or an even split between NR and outfitter allocations.
That being said, the outfitter association will be our best bet in the future fights coming with the anti hunting crowd.
This is real now. They just got a victory and they will be working on more. NMWF has shown they will appease the anti hunters. They supported wolves when every anti hunter knows the end game with wolves is to REPLACE human hunters. NMWF supported wolf introduction.
Also NMWF supported banning coyote contests.
I watched all this happen in CA 30 years ago, and now hunting hardly exists at all in CA.
Next you will see them go after lead ammo, and I can almost assure you the side that NMWF will be on there. NMWF did some good work in the past, but, it is time for another organization to do that work with different leaders.
 
I was partly kidding....partly. I think get rid of the outfitter allocation. I totally agree with Paul, especially with regard to NMWF. they are a wolf in sheeps clothing. I think down the road, there wont be much hunting on public land. hunting will be for the folks with the $$ to buy landowner tags, just like antelope. enjoy it while it lasts.
 

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