Iran

Not going to happen, they know we won't do it and we can't even threaten them with conventional force they'ld laugh at us given our current state of affairs in Iraq. the rest of the world views us as somewhat of a rogue nation and won't support us anymore either. the cost of the Iraq war has been more than lives and the half trillion dollars is't also cost us much of our credibility. many have said this would happen and it has. if Iran steps too far out of line Russia and some others will put more pressure on them but as long as they play their cards right they'll get their way. is Iraq still the war to end all wars now that you've noticed Iran? or will a win in Iraq send all terrorist and Iran packing? ( don't forget Iran and Iraq are Shiite buddys now that Saddam's gone ) I've said for years Iran is a MUCH bigger threat than Iraq ever was but we've blown it and our options are very limited , a perfect example of why you should pick your fights.

Just for kicks guys tell me why I'm wrong and how this will play out rather than answer with the normal personal attacks like "traitor" and America hater" we've already been down that road and it didn't work for you long term.
 
"Just for kicks guys tell me why I'm wrong and how this will play out rather than answer with the normal personal attacks like "traitor" and America hater" we've already been down that road and it didn't work for you long term."

Like it would matter...again? You've been given salient, well-thought out arguements, time after time, over this situation. Yet like a stubborn child, you refuse to beleive those that have been involved in some of this. Do a search on the past threads of this nature. There are arguments a plenty for you.
 
So are we going to nuke them? attack them ? or do nothing? by your answer I'm guessing talk tough and do nothing.that's what I think we'll do also so maybe we agree after all.
 
Well I will tell you where I disagree with your typical doom and gloom.

First off let me say that I believe you have fallen for the typical main stream media's doom and gloom despair they air every night on network television and in our countries liberal news papers. With that said.
I believe an air strike on there nukes is more than feasable given our location and ease of target acuisition and the un godly amount of bombs we have ready for just such a strike.

Other Nations do not view us a rouge nation for crying out loud. That is just plain rediculous. Other nations know that if they sit on their hands and do nothing the good o'l USofA will step in and protect their interest. So these nations in order to save face talk a big line about the evil America knowing full well we will protect them. Spain wimped out under one terrorist attack and are now OWNED by Alquida, France is over run with a muslim population out of control and is afraid they would be over run if they helped the US. So they talk a bunch bull to keep the muslims in their country satisfied. All of the EU is on the verge of becoming under muslim control. They are simply out breeding them. Sad but FACT.

Credability, when did the US ever (except right after WWII) have any credibility with any nation of importance. That's an joke statement Dude. When you are at the top there are always those out there attempting to tear you down. The EU and everyone else has hated us since the 60's man. Where have you been.

You say if they play their cards right they will get their way. Another weak statement. Yoyu could say that about any country. What Iran will do is parade them on Algesera and then hand them over. They will not get what I have in mind for them (see my original post) simply because diplomacy will win out here. If Iran hard balls look for the fly overs.

For one I have never said nor thought Iraq was the war to end all wars. Frankly I have never heard one of our leaders say something as nonscensicle as that. However it is a must fight war, it was the right move to go into Iraq. Time will tell. I think as in ALL......let me say that again.....ALL wars mistakes are made. My God can you imagine how loud you would be sceaming right now Dude if we were in WWII and the press was reporting ever minute screw up like they are in Iraq. You would have imploded by now. I also believe if the Democrat party would stand behind our nation and the war effort instead of undermining the troops and the President at every turn we may have allready been out of Iraq.

It is also easy to say Iran was and is a bigger threat. Hell that's been true since Jimmy Carter, However Iran was not invading other countries and violating every UN order given it as an out of control nation threatening our existence with providing a heavaen for terrorist and WMD's..........Don't even start with the "There never were WMD's crap cause every intelegence agency on planet earth had the same intelegence. All of them. Presented with that information I think even you Dude would have invaded.

You are way to big a monday morning quarterback.
 
Nice spin job 202, you can't begin to compare WWII with this elective conflict we had a clear mission with a clear enemy there. you over simplify everything and use theory in place of facts. if we can't handle Iraq we aren't going to do anything pre emtive to Iran you can bet on that. since you far right yes men for Bush have been right about absolutly nothing for the last 5 years I wonder why we even validate your arguments with an answer. if you want to be taken serious you just have to be right once in a while. I mean com'on, I hate to sound negative all the time but look at your record we've had enough crap fed to us.
 
If Iran continues down the path they have been heading, THERE WILL BE A BOMB STRIKE ON THEIR NUKE SITES WITHIN THE NEXT 12-14 MONTHS. It is just a matter if we do it or if Israel does it. Then every body can just set back and let them take another 10 years to come out of the stoneage and be a threat to anyone on a large scale.

RELH
 
I hate to make personal attacks against any fellow hunter on matters such as political posts. But it gets to the point where enough is enough! Dude your post and attitude sickens me! You are proud of the results you and your kind have inflicted on this nation.

Credibility. You talk about credibility. Of course our nation's credibility suffers when contrary to our promises we cut and run. Yes those poor Iraqis who have supported our efforts will be the first to suffer dearly if and when we leave without making sure Iraq is secure from immediate takeover from a terrorist regime. You and your kind are causing this. You want us to pull out without finishing the job. You complain that George Bush does not have a plan to win, yet the ONLY plan you and your kind propose is to cut and run IN DEFEAT! And then you complain that we have lost credibility. You sicken me!

Credibility, you say that Iran and other nations no longer respect our nation. That because we will lose in Iraq they no longer fear our threats. Again if you and your kind succeed in having us cut and run that will be a likely result. The result you and you kind caused by not pulling togethter in an united effort to defeat the terrorists activities. You sicken me!

Credibility, America will be seen as a paper tiger if we cut and run as you and your kind wish. Your sorts have undermined this efforts for a long time. Because of your political agenda, just win the stupid political fights and critize the Republican adminstration at every turn so that your Demorcrats can win offices, our nation becomes further and further divided to the delight of the terrorists. The world is left with the clear impression that American does not have the stomach to fight a tough fight. This is the result of your efforts and you are proud of it. Then you complain we have lost credibility. You sicken me!

You say this is the result of picking the wrong fight. Regardless of whether this was the right fight to get in or not, and I do not intend to attempt to debate such issue with you because I know that would be an act in futility, we are in it. There will be serious consequences if we leave in defeat. So why not come together as a ntaion and do what it takes to win. There is absolutely no doubt we can win if we choose to do so. But instead we have people like you that proudly brag that you knew all along we would not win, that we never should have got into the mess, and that leaving in defeat will prove how right you were. You sicken me!

I was trained that when the going gets tough the tough get going. Well you and your kind may get your way. The political efforts may once again cause long lasting scars to our nation. You can sit behind your computer and type to the world how right you were. All the while our nation suffers. You sicken me.
 
This is a democracy and majority rules, you and "your kind" who hate " my kind " are out numbered now . again you barf out your opinions as if they were fact and ride your high horse as if it's your way or the high way. you're no better than the flag burning hippies you're just on the other side of the fence, the losing side . this is a free country and a difference of opinion is just that, it's not a cut and dried case like you and "your kind " make it out to be. you say we must fight for freedom for the Iraqi's but if you had your way we'ld have a dictatorship here in this country, it's been close to that for 6 years and look where we are. things are back to normal now and you can't handle it so you lash out on those who dare oppose you, you sicken me. better cowboy up or you're going to be sick for a while poor fella, in the fall of '08 you're going to puke, " your" kind has sealed it's own fate.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-07 AT 05:32PM (MST)[p]I'm with you 202, I think we should give them 1 hour to release them. If they don't, we should air strike a bunch of their infrastructure, nuke site, electric plants, military bases. I'm tired of these idiots jerking our chain because they think that we won't do anything. It's high time that we teach Iran a lesson.

I feel that the strike should be directed right at their leader if we know where he is. It seems like that was what got Kadafi's attention back in the 80's.

Jody
 
So, when was the last time another Country's military vessel's strayed in to US water's detaining ships? Christ, it doesn't even matter who's right any more. Anyone who thinks we need further escalation is not capable of clear thought. You guys really need to watch "Flags of Our Fathers" to see just how close you can come to losing a war financially, if you don't have the resources to fight it. You just don't get that it really IS possible for the US to go broke and run out of resources to fight. The Dems trying to cutt off war funds is not about ending the war, it's about keeping us from defeating ourselves by overextending ourselves. Some of you bellyachers we're the same guys stating the Dems didn't have the balls to pull the purse strings and really take some action. I don't hear that crap now, with the Republican Senate doing all the backflopping.
 
DO YOU REMEMBER???

WHEN I SUGGESTED A FEW FLY-OVERS???

JUDAS PRIEST!!!

YOU BOYS WENT BALLISTIC ON ME!!!

OH BUT NOW ITS O.K.!!!

I'M JUST LIKE ALAN JACKSON!!!

IF I WERE TO MAKE THE FLY-OVERS!!!

I'M NOT SURE I COULD TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN IRAQ & IRAN!!!

I'D TOAST BOTH THE BASTARDS!!!

THEN I'D WORK THEM ARABS OVER A LITTLE!!!

OH I'M IN TROUBLE NOW!!!

THE ONLY bobcat!!!
 
Dude, I said it on another post and I'm gonna say it again, we are tired of hearing your broken record bunch of crap, it is your opinion, it is your right but my hell, we have heard enough of the same stuff from you too many times. Let the rest of us have a discusion without your broken record crap. We do need the delete thing for some people that just won't quit.
 
fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by
fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by
fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by
fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by
fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by
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fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by
fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by fly by
.....
rackmaster
 
butt, who asked you? are you a self appointed mod? my last response was in response to being jumped on, as this one is. I don't care to hear your broken record propaganda anymore than you like my response to it. I can see this isn't a place to debate it's to pat fannys with those who agree with you. so get off my back and I'll back off so you can play yes man without interruption for a while.
 
Nobody has more nukes than us, who are we to tell all the other countries what to do? We should mind our own business, look how Irag is going?
 
Nope not self appointed at all, just like many others on here, you are getting pretty old with your ranting. You are responding to being jumped on, well, maybe you should not open the door, obviously, I am not the only one tired of your retoric.
 
butt, If you're anything but a yes man you'll get jumped on here so that door is opened when you open your mouth. even the guys so far in right field they aren't sure what game is being played ( like 202 ) can take an argument without tears. maybe rather than argue with your right wing propaganda and hurt your feelers I should post far left propaganda then cry and fuss if people like you say anything negative about it? it's the same thing. I'm not sure if Mr. Roger's Neighborhood has a web sight or not but you might check it out, there won't be any arguing or bad people like me to upset you there . if MM is your " happy place " where republican's are always right, have full control of government and will always be in the whitehouse and I'm ruining it then I'm sorry.
 
Dude, from your replies from almost all of your post....I can say this...you are a confused individual that probably could use some group hug counseling. I love ya man. It's okay.
 
Thanks bomber , it's tough being a middle of the road American these days. if you don't keep your nose in Bush's fanny the republicans cast you out and I don't want too much to do with the far left either. can we do the hug therapy sessions at Hooters?
 
dude,

The only thing in the middle of the road are fools like you and dead opossums.

JB
 
Moderation is a terrible thing isn't it? wacko sheep like you would jump off a high bridge if Bush told you to, that would be the best thing he's done for this country since taking office.
 
Dude, you can say anything you want, you are not hurting my feelers, but it is gettin pretty old. If you could respond to even 1/2 of the posts here without turning it political,,,,,,
LIFE IS GOOD
 
Hi Buttshot!

I have a black cat and his name is Jake, he meows alot. I like Jake he is my favorite cat. He has a friend named Boomer, but Boomer bites sometimes. I don't like him...
 
Be careful FTW, that doob is getting short and it's about to burn your fingers.........

JB
 
The president of Iran is a nut job. I wouldn't put it past that
country to drop a bomb on Israel. I will guarantee you if that
ever happened, the US or Israel would make that country a glass
factory.

With the current war, I strongly doubt we would invade Iran.
 
There you go agian D13er, I knoo your insultang my inteligence with all you're nonscences. why do you has to be so much politcal all the times. Yoor like broken record that doesn't work right enymore. Always politaitical
 
Dude, as a conservative, I'am going to have to back out of that group hug but, hell lets do meet at hooters and discuss why the president of Iran believes the halocaust didn't exist. The guy is a NUT!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-25-07 AT 08:01PM (MST)[p]Buttshot is right! I checked over all these politcal posts and you had some sort of politcal response to way more than just 1/2 of them.

It's pretty obvious that at times you bring a difference of opinion with lots of extra spicey rettorick, retoric, Red or Rick, and finally...rhetoric. You're just like the rest of those cut and runners FDR, Kennedy, and Johnson that also insult my inteligences.

202 is correct too. Do you think U.S. credibility had anything to do with the liberation of Kuwait?

When Bush 41 pushed the Iraq military out of Kuwait in 1949, what other nations supported us? You need to reseach issues and get your facts straight, so you know what you are talking about.

Get a clue Dude! :)
 
FTW,

Why do you lower yourself down to our level just to chit chat?? Isn't it humiliating ?

JB
 
After burning the tips of my fingers I often wonder the same thing.

Let me tell you a story D13er, one day a guy comes home and finds his young wife packing her suitcase.

Stunned he asks, "Why are you packing?"

She replies, "Because I saw your hidden pictures and you are a pedophile."

He repsonds, "Pedophile, that's a pretty big word for a 13 year old.

Anyways, back to your self-depricating humor...go on..
 
Huntindude wrote
"This is a democracy and majority rules, you and "your kind" who hate " my kind " are out numbered now".

Actually we are not a democracy, we are a Constitution-based federal republic. Some of the Founding father's were quite worried about what was described as the "tyranny of the majority" and therefore set up the Seperation of Powers and the bi-cameral legislature.

As for the Iranian threat, Britain and Iran have diplomatic relations and therefore we should sit quietly back and let them hash it out but park another Carrier battle group off their coast.

The U.S. still has plenty of reserve Military strength to threaten Iran with a credible threat. If all of the Bush haters on here think GWB is so stupid then why wouldn't he be dumb enough to lob a ICBM into Tehran?

Iran stated specifically that they were going to capture some of "our troops" and they are PI$$ED that a couple of key military leaders of theirs have come up missing. It was expected they would do something, just a little surprising they chose British sailors and Marines to detain.

Nemont
 
Dude being a middle of the roader means you get run over. Pick a side and stand for something instead of everything. Act like you have a pair and come correct. Quite drinking the Koolaid that ABC,CBS and NBC are giving you. You have a computer in front of you, use it. Go ahead and watch you mainstream liberal TV then go online and find an alternative news source or 5 and get the real story you are obviously not getting.
 
I agree with Nemont this is between England and Iran. We will sit on the sidelines as the situation develops. Not to defend Iran, there quite a few dumb smart bombs that went astray into Iran at the beginning of Shock and Awe.

The Iranian government was more than happy to accept these mis-fires since we were removing their enemy. The misfires happened in uninhabited remote regions of Iran along the Iraq border.

This also reminds me of when China intercepted that P-3 and detained our service men. They later returned the P-3 in boxes.

I don't think this will be considered an act of war. This will fall under the guise of territorial waters.
 
Just thougth I would give me opinion on this.

If anyone is going to strike Iran I think its going to be Israel who does it first.

Iran talks tough to the US, you might even classify their remarks as little threats. But the leader of Iran has said more then once that Israel doesnt need to exist.

You know that they are trying to buy time to develop weapons that can do some real damage to Israel.

Israel has enough spies and technology that they know what Iran is up to and in my opinion Israel doesnt take crap from anyone. They do what they think needs to be done reguardless of what their allies or anyone else thinks. They protect themselves.

They are watching Iran and soon enough you will see Israel strike Iran just like the did Hezbollah. When that happens watch out. Iran will definately have a fullout war with Israel.

Then whats going to happen from there? We back Israel in a war against Iran? Russia and China back Iran with weapons and intelligence? How many other countries are going to be dragged into another world war because of some radicals objective to destroy Israel? Would the US fight Russia of China if this happend?

Who would back us up? Japan? Austalia? UK?
My opinion is that when Israel does a premeptive strike against Iran to protect themselves that is going to be the start of a very long and bloody war that will involve many many nations.
 
You make some good points, Israel is nothing without us behind them . if they make a pre emtive strike I hope they have their ducks in a row because any war they start will be our war. Iran is a clear threat but if anything we're told about them is true Ahmadienjad isn't all that popular and many Iranians consider him too radical. thare's a chance things could change and he may be history before things get too out of hand.
 
I for one, do strongly believe that Israel will not allow Iran to develope nuke weapons. They have too much to lose due to their close borders. There will be a knockout strikes on several of Irans nuke sites. Israel did it to Iraq and will do it again.
I also do not believe it will result in a war involving other nations. Oh! there will be some who will demand sanctions on Israel, but that will be as far it will go.
The only reason Russia is backing Iran is because they are making billions on assisting Iran in their weapons procurement, and nuke building expertise. You must remember, Russia has a major problem with one of their break away states that is Moslem controlled and have committed some major terrorist acts on Russia. Do you really believe that Russia wants Iran being able to sneak a suitcase bomb over to these Moslems for one upmanship on Mother Russia. The only reason Russia is helping Iran is because of the big bucks they need to shore up their economy, other wise they would not be there.
so when Israel hits Iran, Russia will yell for show and to show support for their big bucks, but will be relieved that those bombs do not end up with the wrong Moslem nation that would love to stick it to Mother Russia.
As for Israel having their ducks in a row, they have proved it several times by defeating their Moslem neighbors, even at 4-1 odds against Israel. The bottom line, Israel has enought nukes to destroy Iran and several other Arab counties, and if they are backed to the wall, the nukes will fly. Those Arab countries know this, and that is the reason they have not mounted a new war against Israel.
Talking about suitcase atomic weapons, that is the fear I have about Iran becoming a nuke power. They are very hardcore radical Moslems, and their nut job leader, or someone like Osama would love to sneak one into N.Y. or L.A. and blow it for $hits and grins. And don't any of you doubtful lefties tell me that there is no such thing, I worked with a A.D.M., Atomic demolition & munitions unit in the Army and back in 1967 they were small enought to fit in the back seat of V.W. bug. They are alot smaller now, with increased power. Think about it, do you really trust Iran to have nukes when they have proven to be so darn unstable with us. look to the past, on their unheard of before, stunts they have pulled. I for one will cheer when Israel drops it on them. Better them then my grandchildren.

RELH
 
Iran is a problem and will continue to be, but I actually think our biggest threat is from North Korea.
Call this a vision of the future but I see a vastly more immediate problem from those nut jobs.
Whatever happens I will always support our troops and realize the importance of doing so having served myself.
People that pom pom on the sidelines thinking ignoring threats to our own security and freedom should watch films on 911 to refresh there memories.
Best,
Jerry
44f4e09309b4a917.jpg
 
I don't know RELH, about Israel doing anything preemptively. From what I gather, Israels sitting PM is pretty much of a limp-wristed liberal and doesn't want to make too many enemies (does he realize that he has enemies in any direction he wants to shoot)? Thats why Israel bailed out of Lebanon just as they had the PLO/Hamas on the ropes.

I think if Netanyahu was in there, Israel would have JDAM'ed the nuke facilities some time ago. I do hope that Israel is keeping a weather eye on these guys. I would think that Iran thinks that they have world on their side, what with all of the coalition starting to surrender and the democratic lead handwringers desperately wanting to show the French how well the US can wave a white flag. That being the case, I suppose that Iran feels as though they can do what they want when they want on not fear retribution.
 
If we have a victory in Iraq none of this matters right? the terrorist and wacko's like Iran will run and hide right? that's why we must win in Iraq at all cost because it will fix everything. now you say Iran and N. Korea could still be a threat? you have me so confused now , sometimes I almost think you don't have all the answers.
 
Huntindude,

What would be the consquenses of failure in Iraq? I know you believe that the Jihadish are not flocking there for a chance to kill Americans but that is counter to all the intel on the battlefield.

If Iraq can stand up and at least defend itself from Iran then that would be a good thing. Remember our "freinds" the Saudis are not going to ever allow a completely Shiite dominated Iraq. They will fund the Sunnis to the point of them being a thorn in everyones side over there.


JimNV,

Israel was fighting Hezbollah, a proxy of Iran, in Lebanon not Hamas/PLO. Arabs across the region viewed this as a total Hexbollah victory over Israel.

What ever Israel does nor does not do will involve the U.S. We will defend Israel regardless.


For all the anti war people I have another book that you should read. Huntindude, I know you hate reading but this is a great read, "America Alone" by Mark Steyn.

If we stop fighting in Iraq and pull out and end the war in Afghanistan it will not matter. The goal of Radical Islam is to dominate us regardless of our political affiliation and guess who is first in their hit list? I will give a hint it isn't the marjority of residents in the red states.

So we will have to fight Radical Islam not only in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, all the Stans, Indonesia where ever it exists. We cannot co exist with Radical Islam, unless you enjoy Shria Law.

Nemont
 
If the World does nothing, then Israel will strike "within" the next 2 years. They really do not need us, they have the ability. They also do not have a choice. Israel's intelligence suggest Iran will attack, as it is not only their destiny, but their religious obligation to do this to Israel. Now that China and Russia has told Iran to back down, it will be interesting to see how they respond. If you have not figured it out yet, world war 3 has already begun.
 
Armagedon

Eze 38:15 And you shal come from thy place out of the north parts, you, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:
Eze 38:16 And you shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Eze 38:17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken of in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

Eze 38:18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.

Eze 38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel

OH was that a Polictical Question or a Religious one...
 
Nemont, why would Iran and Iraq need to fight now? that was back in Saddam's day and that's why we built Saddam up and armed him. Iraq and Iran are buddy's now so find another reason to stay.

bunco, Israel could start a war but they wouldn't last long without and us . in fact Israel wouldn't last long without us anyway, 30% of our foriegn aid goes to Israel. last numbers I saw were about 5 billion dollars a year or 13.7 million a day how ever you prefer.
 
Iran and Iraq's government may not fight but the Sunni's will never accept being dominated by a Shiite led government that is beholden to Iran. The wealthy Sunni Kingdom to the south of Iraq will ensure that the Sunni's will fight on forever against a Shiite dominated. That is why Iraq must be able to function on it's.

If it were so easy then just getting rid of Saddam would have ended any conflict. That was the same kind of thinking that led us into this war.

Nemont
 
Nemont, Hamas is a terrorist arm of Iran. Kind of the Black Bag Dept." of the Iranian government. Direct ties. Khobar towers and all that. Hezbollah is a tool of Iran , with ties and funding from PLO.
 
So we agree that the Sunni and Shiite will keep fighting? the Shiite are for the most part in control of Iraq , you didn't like a Sunni leadership either. so if we can't let either religion have it's way what do we do? I thought they were supposed to have free elections but only if we like who they elect? the Shiite are the majority so guess who might get elected. gee wiz, Iran is Shiite also so where could this end up? so then how do we control or rig the elections to prevent it? if Sunni and Shiite blow each other up, set each other on fire and saw each others heads off on a regular basis you really thing they can share power in government? and you think dems and republicans can't work together. the removal of Saddam moved Iraq closer to Iran and Iran is a bigger threat than Iraq ever was, many experts said this would happen and it has.
 
As far as I am concerned screw the Saudi's. Let them fight the shiite, and put their money where their mouth is. Nobody should have an allegiance to those scumbags. After we dug up Saddam, we should have packed up and headed south. Saudi and Kuwaitis are the biggest elitist pussies on the planet. I know I wouldn't miss the House of Faud. Believe me, the Saudis are no friend of the United States.

Ahrmendidijaid has the same poll problems as George does. He has lost the support of the majority of Iranians, their econonmy is faltering, and their infrastructure is in poor shape.

The thing to do with Iran is to stop selling them refined crude. Although the sit on vast amount of oil, they like California lack refineries and have to import 70% of their gasoline. Most Iranians have no love for the Ayatollahs, it's kinda like what's going on here now.

Nemont, after capturing Saddam if we had left the Iraqi army in tact, the sunni's running the government, we could of very easily declared over-whelming victory and our boys could be home or focusing on Afghanistan.

While all this puke over Iran is going on, nobody has mentioned Pakistani riots and the fact that if Mussharoff leaves, you might as well hand over those Big Boy Nuclear Weapons to wahabiists.

But let's just talk about Iran, even with reactors they would not be a nuclear threat for 15 years.
 
"But let's just talk about Iran, even with reactors they would not be a nuclear threat for 15 years".

FTW,
Do a little research about what effects of a small dirty bomb would be. Iran already has the nuclear material and know how to produce a bomb. Even if they denonate a small one think of the terror it would cause. It would make the hysteria over Three Mile Island look like a mild case of gas.

I don't disagree with you about the Saudi's unfortunately we have interwined Military agreements with them and have already shown we will spend American blood to defend their Kingdom and the Emir if Kuwait.

I also agree that dismantling the Army was a HUGE mistake. No arguement from me with that.

Huntindude,
Did the Country of Iraq exist before Saddam? I wonder how the Shiites and Sunnis could of gotten along then? They lived in mixed Neighborhoods and married each other. It is not the U.S. that is fanning the flames of Sectarian violence it is the Imams. I know you believe the U.S. caused all the evils in the world but fyi we haven't.

Nemont
 
Forthewall is really messed up in the head. He has written some crap recently that has really made me think he's sick. Try reading what he wrote in "A Letter Home...." I don't think there is any hope for him and I honestly think suicide would help.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-28-07 AT 04:33PM (MST)[p]>Forthewall is really messed up in
>the head. He has
>written some crap recently that
>has really made me think
>he's sick. Try reading
>what he wrote in "A
>Letter Home...." I don't
>think there is any hope
>for him and I honestly
>think suicide would help.


as I said in a previous post dleonard3 retarded!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-28-07 AT 03:07PM (MST)[p]Ouch Manny!

Nemont we have been living in a world where the possibility of such a dirty bomb has existed for 30 years. That was why we had Brewster Jennings until recently to track such things.

I am glad that you brought up life before Saddam. I am confident that when you research that question, you are not going to like what you find out. Unfortunately whether it's Mosadeh in Iran or Quasem in Iraq, our boys in CIA did have hand in their ousting or assasinations.

Mosadeh and Quasem (maybe msp)both had united the sectarian factions and both wanted to nationalize their oil supplies. Then check out what happened to oil policies after they were gone.

Check Saddam attempted coup in 59? Where the coup failed and he was shot in the leg. Then again, in 63? where they succeeded and Saddam became the head of the intelligence service.

The biggest question is, Was Saddam and Bin Laden at one time funded by our Government like the Shah was?

Check into it, it's pretty eye opening and it's not conspiracy theory either.

You may also want to check into P.S.A. Petroleum Service Agreements in which 30% of the oil in the ground will be nationalized in Iraq, the other 70% will go to private oil companies.
 
Are you somehow suprised that the CIA was involved in plotting to overthrow governments?

What is so bad about the PSA? Just curious because after all the American Blood and Treasure the real winner in the Iraqi oil contest most likely will be China. They are licking their chops to investing in Iraqi oil deals. While many government refuse to use PSA's I don't think that Iraq is in the same position. They won't be able to attract investment without some reward.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/04/13/MN308762.DTL

I think there is clear evidence that d Saddam was at one time a patron of Washington. That is how the picture of Donald Rumsfeld meeting Saddam came to be.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

There is no clear evidence that the U.S. government funded bin Laden. That is even the one thing that both sides have ever agreed on, that there was not relationship. If you can find actual documents saying this I would be interested in reading them.

What does all this have to do with the here and now? I don't think anyone would be shocked by the CIA being involved, that oil was in play, that money corrupted the process, any of this does not shock most people.

There is also ample evidence that Sunni and Shiites co existed without lobbing off each other's heads prior to Saddam rising to power. I never said Iraq's history was a long glorious past just that pre-Saddam Iraq was not the killing fields we see now. Do you suppose the pent up Shiite anger has anything to do with their treatment during the Saddam Regime?

Nemont
 
Did the Country of Iraq exist before Saddam? I wonder how the Shiites and Sunnis could of gotten along then? They lived in mixed Neighborhoods and married each other. It is not the U.S. that is fanning the flames of Sectarian violence it is the Imams. I know you believe the U.S. caused all the evils in the world but fyi we haven't.

Mosadeh and Quasem (I gotta look up the correct spellings) had one thing in common, they united the masses and instilled peaceful nationalism. They also wanted to nationalize their oil fields to share the wealth with their people.

Saddam and Shah Palavi had 2 things in common, they were brutal tyrants that divided their countries, and were placed into power by the U.S.

It's my belief that Saddam wasn't just a patron of the U.S. I think he was recruited and funded covertly by the U.S. in the late 50's & early 60's. Afterall, the first thing Saddam did after the coup was to re-privatize the oil fields. This made large oil companies happy, then he rounded up and kill the communists, which made our government happy.

So whenever there has been a uniting in either country we have removed those leaders. I think the violence we are witnessing is a 3 pronged issue. Payback for the shiite, survival for the sunnis, and a long mistrust of the U.S. policy.

You can't have it both ways Nemont. In other words you can't point to Iraq or Iran's history and say "Well, they all used to get along" before we (CIA) removed their uniting leaders. Then say, "I know you believe the U.S. caused all the evils in the world but fyi we haven't."

Were not talking about the whole world, we are afterall talking about Iran and Iraq. In this case we did cause evils in both countries in exchange for Oil and Arms Sales. The Shah helped keep oil prices down and in return Nixon built Iran's military force from 28th to 5th in a matter of 6 years.

Question: Do we agree about the threat of dirty bombs, that the threat has been with us for awhile now? McVey could very easily gone to a dirty bomb if he had wanted to.

Although the S.F. gate article is a little outdated I do think it reinforces the fact that we really are there for the oil. Not for WMD, democracy, or the Iraqi people.

The fact is if both religious groups can't unite, we will never be able to actually get the oil out of the ground.

If that's the case, is it really worth the cost and more American lives?

Recently Wolfowitz was asked if we are in Iraq to help the Iraqi people, why aren't we in Darfur. Wolfowitz replied, "Because Iraq sits on an ocean of oil."
 

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