IRAQ WAR IS JUST, RIGHT & ALMOST OVER.

202typical

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I thought this was pretty interesting and would bennefit the MM comunity.


I have reccomended articles by Victor David Hanson in the past, because his clarity and logic is impossible to refute. Hanson is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institue and a brilliant historian. But his latest article, which is available through National Review online and other sources is perhaps the most succinct argument ever made in support of the war in Iraq. The link above will take you directly to the full article. Below are some of the key paragraphs that are worthy of turning off your television and reading out loud to your children.

In is opening statements, Hanson points out that the mainstream media supports a one sided view of Iraq when they keep repeating falses stories and politically motivated points of view.

Almost everything that is now written about Iraq rings not quite right: It was a ?blunder?; there should have been far more troops there; the country must be trisected; we must abide by a timetable and leave regardless of events on the ground; Iraq will soon devolve into either an Islamic republic or another dictatorship; the U.S. military is enervated and nearly ruined; and so on.

In fact, precisely because we have killed thousands of terrorists, trained an army, and ensured a political process, it is possible to do what was intended from the very beginning: lessen the footprint of American troops in the heart of the ancient caliphate.

It is almost laughable to hear the war protestors arguments against Bush and the war in Iraq. Hanson, nails them at every turn.

We took no oil ? the price in fact skyrocketed after we invaded Iraq. We did not do Israel?s bidding; in fact, it left Gaza after we went into Iraq and elections followed on the West Bank. We did not want perpetual hegemony ? in fact, we got out of Saudi Arabia, used the minimum amount of troops possible, and will leave Iraq anytime its consensual government so decrees. And we did not expropriate Arab resources, but, in fact, poured billions of dollars into Iraq to jumpstart its new consensual government in the greatest foreign aid infusion of the age.

THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD READ OUT LOUD TO YOUR KIDS
In short, every day the American people should have been reminded of, and congratulated on, their country?s singular idealism, its tireless effort to reject the cynical realism of the past, and its near lone effort to make terrible sacrifices to offer the dispossessed Shia and Kurds something better than the exploitation and near genocide of the past ? and how all that alone will enhance the long-term security of the United States.

Critics of the war mock the efforts of the Iraqi people to establish Democracy and they belittle the accomplishments of the United States and it's fighting men and women since the war began. Look at Hanson?s list of positive developments that have occured, because of the war in Iraq.

First, the Iraqi military is improving ? not eroding or deserting?In truth, the Iraqi military is proving good enough to hold ground and soon to take it alongside our own troops.

The Sunnis ? no oil, a minority population, increasing disgust with Zarqawi, a shameful past under Saddam ? will participate in the December elections in large numbers.

Zarqawi and the radical Islamicists are slowly being squeezed as only a war at their doorstep could accomplish. Critics of Iraq should ask if we were not fighting Zarqawi in Iraq, where exactly would we be fighting Islamic fascists ? or would the war against terror be declared over, won, lost, dormant, or ongoing, with the U.S. simply playing defense?

al Qaeda?s Sunni support is being coopted by democracy. Jordan, the terrorists? old ace in the hole?has essentially turned on Zarqawi and with him al Qaeda. Syria is under virtual siege and its border sanctuary now a killing zone. Bin Laden can offer very little solace from his cave. And somehow Islamists have alienated the United States, Europe, Russia, China, Australia, Japan, and increasingly Middle East democracies like those in Afghanistan, Turkey, and Iraq, and reform movements in Lebanon and Jordan.

Our armed forces have already accomplished what the British and the Soviets could never do in Afghanistan; what the Russians failed to accomplish in Chechnya; and what we came so close to finishing in Vietnam. They won't falter now when they are so close to winning an almost impossibly difficult war, one that will be recognized by friends and enemies as beyond the capability of any other military in the world.

MORE REQUIRED READING OUT LOUD TO YOUR KIDS
Kurds and Shiites support us for obvious reasons ? no other government on the planet would risk its sons and daughters to give them the right of one man/one vote. They may talk the necessary talk about infidels, but they know we will leave anytime they so vote. After the December election, expect them ? and perhaps the Sunnis as well ? quietly to ask us to stay to see things through.

Hanson?s article is worth the full read so link to it here or visit www.nationalreview.com.

As I have stated before, the war in Iraq was a bold and brilliant move on the part of George Bush and his administration. It took the war on terror, a real war, and gave it a front. That was the one thing the terrorists didn't want, it is their weakness. In spite of what the media tells you, the terrorists are fighting the war on our terms now. On the ground, in Iraq. Yes it is tough, bloody and deadly. Yes, it should be finished, won and our troops brought home as soon as possible. Everybody wants that, but what Bush has finally summoned the courage to say is that it? can't happen when we want it to happen. It will happen when it happens.

Bush will be remembered as one of the greatest leaders of our country because he had the courage to risk all for what is just, right and almost over.

Buck Evinger
 
I managed to keep keep from laughing until the punch line at the end, funny stuff thanks.
 
Bush will be remembered as the worst leader of our country because he had the courage to risk all for what is just wrong and almost over.

The "WAR" in Iraq is not OBL - that remindes me, where is OBL?

It's interesting to read articles that talk about how important the war in Iraq might be - on the other hand they NEVER point out that the USA, after 9/11 thought that we were going after OBL.

It is true that Bush and his administration took an un prepared army to "war," but not a Nation - the biggest mistake that can be made in war preparation is to leave the Nation at home but send the army! You can not wind a war with just an army, you need the the NATION!

In addition, the military now is being asked to be a piece keeping force, again, our men and women mostly were not trained to keep piece, they were trained to battle. It is true that we have a spectacular military and that they are doing the very best job they can ? ALL of them! But that does not change the speculation that there's not enough men on the ground to do the job, and to repeat, many are not trained for those types interactions.

Many authors also never say anything about HOW we got into the war, which, I think is at the heart of why there's much less support for the war today, than there was two years ago. The flip-flop (Iraq either was part of 9/11 or it was not) of Bush and Cheney has caused a lot of people to question the entire effort leading up to our starting a war in Iraq. I lost confidence in our leadership when Bush announced the end of major combat while wearing a flight suit, and standing on the deck of an aircraft carrier. Since then, we have lost thousands of men and the support of a NATION!
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-18-06 AT 08:56PM (MST)[p]Who said we should not have liberated Iraq?

Howcome Bush and Cheney keep saying there was not connection betweek Sadam and 9/11 but then if you go back, they clearly made the case for invading iraq because of the threat they pose to the USA and it's connection to 9/11. There's no doubt that today there are lots of and lots of killers in Iraq, many of whom are "terrorists."

What's your oppinion on war proffiteering?


The big issue is about trusting our government and presenting the truth to the American people. Bush went to Iraq when this Nation would support just about anything as a result of 9/11 and our desire to become whole again. I think most agree that Sadam was a bad man and needed taken out. Anyone that feels so strongly about human rights should also expect the USA to liberate Darfure, are Korea, right?
 
Maybe Saddam should have been left in power.
Seems that maybe his brutality was the only way to control the fanatical religious freaks that inhabit that cesspool.
HH
 
I KNEW IF LITTLE GEORGE WAS ELECTED INTO POWER HE'D STRIKE IRAQ!!!

FINISH DADS JOB SO-TO-SPEAK!!!

AM I MAD ABOUT IT???

HELL NO I AIN'T MAD!!!

AM I MAD ABOUT THE WAY THE WAR HAS BEEN HANDLED???

HELL YA I'M MAD ABOUT IT!!!

THAT COUNTRY AIN'T WORTH 2500 AMERICAN SOLDIERS LIVES!!!

I WOULD OF MADE THE FLY-OVERS & THEY WOULD OF BEEN SEVERE ENOUGH TO WAKE SEVERAL OTHER COUNTRIES UP ALSO!!!

NO NUKES INVOLVED,FOR YOU IDIOTS THAT THINK I'M TALKING NUKES YOU'RE WRONG!!!

SADAMN JUNIOR(ONE OF MANY!!!) WOULD TAKE OVER AND LIFE WOULD OF WENT ON!!!

WE DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY TO BABYSIT THESE MURDERING BASTARDS FOR ETERNITY!!!

WAKE THE HELL UP FELLOW AMERICANS!!!

ALMOST OVER MY A$$!!!

CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG,BUT I THOUGHT ONCE AT WAR,THE OBJECT OF THE GAME IS TO FINISH THE JOB ASAP & SHOW THIS WORLD WHO IS STILL THE BOSS!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WILLING TO KICK SOME TAIL!!!
 
AND ONE MORE THING FOR YOU THICK SKINS!!!

YOU SHOULD ALREADY KNOW THIS BUT SOME OF YOU ARE HAVING A HARD TIME GETTING THIS INTO YOUR THICK HEADS!!!

THEY HATE OUR GUTS!!!

THATS RIGHT!!!

THEY HATE OUR AMERICAN GUTS!!!

YOU WILL NOT CHANGE THEM!!!

IT'S BEEN BRAIN WASHED INTO THEM FOR 100'S OF YEARS,MAYBE 1000'S!!!

THEY CAN'T REALLY TELL YOU WHY THEY HATE US,BUT ITS BEEN BRED INTO THEM & YOU AIN'T GONNA CHANGE IT,NOT EVEN LITTLE GEORGE CAN CHANGE IT!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WILLING TO GIVE THEM A REASON TO HATE US!!!
 
Its pretty hard to believe that they have brainwashed them into hating us for thousands of years when our country has only been around for less than three hundred years. We haven't even been a world power for a hundred years yet.
Driftersifter
 
Im with hunterharry and huntindude, those people need a dictator, thats all they know, need someone that can rule them with an iron fist, they hate americans, i was over during the first gulf war on an air craft carrier but i sure as hell wouldnt want to loose my life over people that hate me and dont want me their in the first place and dont give a crap if they blow up 40 women and children like its second nature, i hope they go to a civil war and kill themselves off. if were gonna stay there it would help us out, just back off and let them do the killing.
 
As of now there have been more Americans killed in Iraq and Afganistan than were killed in the 911 attacks. In July and August alone there were 6599 violent deaths incuding Iraqi's. just and right? that's a matter of opinion, almost over ? that's bull.
 
"What's your oppinion on war proffiteering?"

Please tell me you don't really believe that was the motive for invading Iraq. You really seem more enlightened than that.
 
>As of now there have been
>more Americans killed in Iraq
>and Afganistan than were killed
>in the 911 attacks. I


I wasn't aware that you judge success or failure by the number of dead.

BTW, it will never be over.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-24-06 AT 01:11PM (MST)[p]

If it never will be over, what should americans expect over the course of the next 10 years?

Should we accept 100, 1000, 50 or 10,000 deaths per year? Is it okay for the "coalition" forces to have killed 100,000 civilians? Most humanitarian organizations have the dead at 100k!

How much death is okay, how much should americans expect to give up? We have given up freedoms, we gave up the seperation of powers, the nations financial security has been given to china and now we are being asked to give up our liberty, and all you can say is "it will never be over?"

If it wont end, what's the point of fighting? If you cant answer this question, than you MUST be able to tell us how many lives we shoule be willing to give up every year fighting "terrorism."

I dont agree. It will end. . . It has too. . .



"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
You can bet it won't end until our $1 billion embassy is complete. It's scheduled for completion June 2007.

Steve
 
I'M NOT SAYING IT WON'T END!!!

BUT AT WHAT COST!!!

HOW MANY AMERICAN SOLDIERS LIVES???

HOW MUCH MONEY???

CAN YOU MAKE(FORCE UPON!!!) A COUNTRY DEMOCRATIC BY SAYING IT WILL BE LITTLE GEORGES WAY???

IF THERE WAS A BIGGER COUNTRY FORCING SOMETHING DOWN OUR THROATS WOULD WE TOLLERATE IT???

WILL WE EVER BE ABLE TO PULL OUT???

I'D OF MADE 3 FLY-OVERS,2700 AMERICAN SOLDIERS WOULD STILL BE ALIVE,IT MIGHT NOT OF BEEN "RIGHT" IN SOME EYES,IT WOULD OF BEEN "JUST" THOUGH,AND YES IT WOULD BE "OVER" UNTIL NEXT TIME THEY OPENED THEIR MOTHES!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING IF YOU THINK YOU'RE GONNA SEPERATE THE GOOD FROM THE BAD IN THAT COUNTRY YOU'RE VERY WRONG!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-24-06 AT 02:16PM (MST)[p]Muslims have been killing the "infidels" for 5,000 years. It's what they do. They won't stop.

I'm with Bobcat though. The problem isn't the war itself, it's how we are fighting it. This phase of the eternal war between muslims and non-muslims should have been over in two days.
 
So, should we keep sending them our men and women for fodder, or should we just nuke the whole village? I'm not saying we should, nuke them, i'm just asking for YOUR solution. . .
 
I GUESS YOU COULD SAY I DON'T & NIETHER DOES ANYBODYELSE HAVE THE SOLUTION!!!

WE SHOULD OF HANDLED IT DIFFERENT FROM THE GET GO!!!

I SURE AS HELL DON'T SEE AN ANSWER NOW!!!

WE'D LOOK KINDA BAD GOING HOME WITH OUR TAIL BETWEEN OUR LEGS,RIGHT???

ESPECIALLY WHEN THIS IS A LITTLE PISSANT COUNTRY ABOUT THE SIZE OF KALI!!!

OTHER COUNTRIES MUST BE LOOKING AT US IN A FUNNY WAY!!!

I SAID 30 YEARS AGO WHEN THE BULLSHITT STARTED I WOULD'OF STARTED THINNING THEM OUT BACK THEN BUT THE GOOD OLE U.S. OF A. HAD TO WAIT FOR A HIT AS BIG AS 9-11 BEFORE WE DONE ANYTHING!!!

HERES ONE THING I'D START DOING,WELL I'D OF DONE IT FROM THE START!!!

WHEN WE CAPTURED A TERRORIST,TERRORISTS I'D HANG THEM ABOVE A PIG PEN FULL OF PIGS LOWERING THEN 4 INCHES A DAY UNTIL THE PIGS ATE THEM ALIVE,I'D ALSO FILM THE WHOLE DEAL & ADVERTISE IT NATIONWIDE ON T.V. AROUND THE WORLD!!!

ANY OF THEM THAT HAD TO BE SHOT,WELL I'D DIP THE BULLETS IN PIG GREASE & MAKE DAMN SURE THEY KNEW IT!!!

ITS KIND OF A RELIGIOUS THING,RIGHT???

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING WHEN YOU'VE SCREWED UP AS BAD AS WE HAVE THE ANSWERS ARE EVEN HARDER TO FIND!!!!(BY THE WAY TFINAL,WHATS YOUR BEST ANSWER???)
 
All the far right wants to do is gripe about the people who didn't believe in this war in the first place not finding the answer for them. you broke it you fix it, but you can't. by the way did you see the intelligence assessment just released that says we've created more terrorist by our actions since 911, no duh.
 
I was listening to some talk radio a while back.
There was a discussion regarding the cold war stalemate with Russia and the arms proliferation during that time period.
What kept us both from going nuclear was a thing called M.A.D. mutually assured destruction.
Both sides knew that if they were to launch a nuke, that they could kiss their arse goodbye.
These freaks in the middle east have no fear of that, in fact they welcome death as a way to meet Alla and get their 72 virgins.
How do you reason with that logic?
You either kill every single one of them or you get the Hell out.
In this era of political corrctness, we can't carpet bomb,
launch nukes and must adhere to the "Rules" while they kill civilians, behead hostages and hide behind children.
I am far from a liberal, but can we really win?
And if we piss off the Saudis (Muslims)....Then what?
HH
 
That's it in a nut shell, it's either genocide or get out . these people don't play by our rules and they cannot be frightened into submission, period. I'll get the peacnkik label over this but where would we be now if we had gone after Bin Laden like we did, but then spent 25% of the money we have spent screwing Iraq up to help those who helped us get Bin Laden by building schools, health care, water sysems ect. give them a reason to like us not hate us. maybe that sounds too hippie like but what's killing them gotten us? more terrorist. it's to late to do anything now but get out or kill them all, thanks little George.
 
I'll bet if little George were Democrat all the fellow Dems would be defending him. Just like they defended Clinton when he stood around with his thumb up his *** when Osama blew up hundreds of service men and women in Yemen, Africa, Saudi, etc during his 8 years. His solution - "we're investigating".
 
Here we go with Clinton again, so you're saying our situation in the middle east is better now than it was then? Bush has held things together better than Clinton did? less sevice men were killed under Bush than Clinton ? and if not to what gain? why is the new intelligence assessment saying that we have more terrorist now than pre 911 is Clintons fault? nobody wants to talk about that report? I think I know why.
 
Money, you may believe what you wrote, but it just aint true. I'm not clinton supporter, but Clinton did go after OBL. In fact not only did he go after him, he made the terrorist threat to this nation a top securety issues when Bush took over. Bush and his people choose to ignore it. The clinton adminstration did believe that air planes could and likely would be used as missles, it's in writting and part of the public record. all bush and condi did was say that there was no way to know that planes would be used as missles. Bull!
 
TFINAL!!!

WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE OR DO???

THE ONLY bobcat WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER!!!
 
It s a good question. Given the opportunity and the access to the information that Bush had, I dont think I would have gone to Iraq before I got OBL! I also would have been honest about my intentions in Iraq and NOT tugged on the heart strings of american durring a time of unanimity. . .
 
"I also would have been honest about my intentions in Iraq and NOT tugged on the heart strings of american durring a time of unanimity. . . "

This country cant get anything done without some catastrophe or being underhanded.

No matter what the agenda is half the country will argue with the other half and nothing will happen. Yes freedom of speech and freedom of information is good, but most US citizens dont have the gumption or knowledge to make the hard decision.

So you got to do what you got to do to get things done.

Still think we should of nuked the whole damn place but hey wasnt my choice.
 
dd, you said,

"No matter what the agenda is half the country will argue with the other half and nothing will happen."

Can you show me evidence of this? I think we are at "war." I think the country got behind this president and the congress in going after the terrorists. So, we are at "war." I dont see how that's "nothing will happen." It was not until the nation found out that they'd been duped that we saw revolt.

I think this president has gotten more than most, and this is a completely republican government, so it's not about democrats vs. repbublicans, is about write and wrong, and truth and lies.

I also agree that we are stuck. We have to construct a new strategy. I'm nost sure, yet what that will look like. I dont think we nuke the whole region, we cant do that because all the people are not guilty.
 

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