Is Wyoming going to do a guide draw?

eelgrass

eelgrass

Long Time Member
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The Wyoming Wildlife Task Force, appointed by the Governor to address licensing issues in the state of Wyoming has an outfitter-sponsored licensed draw proposal in front of them. If you book with a licensed outfitter, your outfitter will enter you into a specific drawing utilized by outfitted clients only. This application will substantially reduce the number of applicants you are competing with. This will greatly increase your opportunity to draw the license you seek, allowing you to hunt in Wyoming on a more frequent and predictable basis.
 
Hard to say what it will do to the odds. I'm going to venture a guess and say the odds will still be very steep in high demand areas if it happens that is. They have an uphill battle ahead of them and not much support
 
Bookhead said:
Hard to say what it will do to the odds. I'm going to venture a guess and say the odds will still be very steep in high demand areas if it happens that is. They have an uphill battle ahead of them and not much support
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I hadn't even heard of the proposal. Sorry if it's old news. Thank you for the reply.
 
It's all on the wyoming wildlife task force website you'll probably have to Google it to find the website
 
8bd28a39-cda3-4574-ae5d-6076f049e954.jpg
ACTION ALERT: EMAIL THE TASK FORCE TODAY!

SAVE YOUR HUNTING OPPORTUNITIES IN WYOMING
As you may be aware, in 2006, the Wyoming Game and Fish Department instituted a preference point system for elk, deer, and antelope. Due to the ever-increasing demand of the non-resident hunters wanting to hunt in Wyoming, we are now experiencing an imperfect system that is putting your hunting opportunity at a disadvantage. This is making it harder for you to draw the license you are wanting. But there is a solution.

The Wyoming Wildlife Task Force, appointed by the Governor to address licensing issues in the state of Wyoming has an outfitter-sponsored licensed draw proposal in front of them. If you book with a licensed outfitter, your outfitter will enter you into a specific drawing utilized by outfitted clients only. This application will substantially reduce the number of applicants you are competing with. This will greatly increase your opportunity to draw the license you seek, allowing you to hunt in Wyoming on a more frequent and predictable basis.

Below are some talking points for you to use when emailing the task force members:

  • I want to book with my outfitter to hunt more often in Wyoming, rather than waiting for many years to draw a license.
  • I would choose to hunt Wyoming before any other state if licenses were more available to the outfitted client.
  • I want to support Wyoming’s economy by hunting with my professional outfitter.
  • I prefer to book with my outfitter to ensure my safety and a high-quality hunting experience.
  • I want the opportunity to come back with the professional outfitter that I have established a relationship with.
The Wyoming Wildlife Task Force will be meeting on August 8-9 in Casper. It is imperative that you reach out now! The comment period is open for you to submit your comments on an outfitter draw. It’s expected at the August meetings, that a final vote will be held concerning the fate of an outfitted client license draw.

Members and Emails of the Wyoming Wildlife Task Force. Please individually email each task force member rather than send one mass email. Please keep your comments personal and brief.
 
What a load of crap.

Might as well add one more talking point. “If life throws me a curveball and I am forced to cancel my hunting plans after I draw, I want my outfitter to be able to sue me for the hunt in which I was not able to participate. It is not fair that I could just turn in the tag to give to a disabled veteran and lose only my tag fee as G&F lets me to do now, it is important to me that the outfitter be able to pursue legal action to collect for services they did not provide!”

Gotta love Sigh Gilliland!
 
jm77 said:
Doing nothing is status quo.
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I will be submitting comments once I get back into town from work. But when 90/10 went through on the big 5 and the outfitters were not angry and my inside info was things will be getting good for them but I wasn't told what.
 
Will the proposed outfitter draw be completely random without regard to preference points or will it use existing or future preference points?

Thanks,

Horniac
 
jm77 said:
Nothing, but don't complain when things don't go your way.
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I’m happy the way it is. Even after my family has never drawn a “quality tag” in Wyoming and may never draw. I like the ability to change things up yearly
 
El Gringo said:
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ACTION ALERT: EMAIL THE TASK FORCE TODAY!

SAVE YOUR HUNTING OPPORTUNITIES IN WYOMING
As you may be aware, in 2006, the Wyoming Game and Fish Department instituted a preference point system for elk, deer, and antelope. Due to the ever-increasing demand of the non-resident hunters wanting to hunt in Wyoming, we are now experiencing an imperfect system that is putting your hunting opportunity at a disadvantage. This is making it harder for you to draw the license you are wanting. But there is a solution.

The Wyoming Wildlife Task Force, appointed by the Governor to address licensing issues in the state of Wyoming has an outfitter-sponsored licensed draw proposal in front of them. If you book with a licensed outfitter, your outfitter will enter you into a specific drawing utilized by outfitted clients only. This application will substantially reduce the number of applicants you are competing with. This will greatly increase your opportunity to draw the license you seek, allowing you to hunt in Wyoming on a more frequent and predictable basis.

Below are some talking points for you to use when emailing the task force members:

  • I want to book with my outfitter to hunt more often in Wyoming, rather than waiting for many years to draw a license.
  • I would choose to hunt Wyoming before any other state if licenses were more available to the outfitted client.
  • I want to support Wyoming’s economy by hunting with my professional outfitter.
  • I prefer to book with my outfitter to ensure my safety and a high-quality hunting experience.
  • I want the opportunity to come back with the professional outfitter that I have established a relationship with.
The Wyoming Wildlife Task Force will be meeting on August 8-9 in Casper. It is imperative that you reach out now! The comment period is open for you to submit your comments on an outfitter draw. It’s expected at the August meetings, that a final vote will be held concerning the fate of an outfitted client license draw.

Members and Emails of the Wyoming Wildlife Task Force. Please individually email each task force member rather than send one mass email. Please keep your comments personal and brief.
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??
 
WYOGA, doesn't care about residents or non-residents. Every decision or move they have their hand in benefits their bottom line. Wilderness law, now guide draw. I'm sure their is more. What a joke. Corruption is alive and thriving in Wyoming.

I understand the 90/10 for residents. I don't like it but I totally get it. WYOGA acts like they are all for it like they give a dang what the residents think. But all along they had something up their sleeve like this guide draw. Disgusting and despicable.
 
Yup
ALL you guys hunting in Wyoming have been systematically run down a rabbit hole.
Each thing they do narrows up the hunting opportunity’s for all hunters.
Enough of the complainers got the 90/10 on line.
Good for you.You just slightly increased your odds.
But now you have set in motion a whole game plan by the Guides Association that is way over your head.They are gonna strip the Residents and all DIY guys of a huge number of tags.
Landowners will get a much bigger chunk of the pie and the guides will control most of the rest.
Greedy resident hunters played right into there hands.A few years from now you are gonna wonder what hit you guys.
 
fullcry said:
Yup
ALL you guys hunting in Wyoming have been systematically run down a rabbit hole.
Each thing they do narrows up the hunting opportunity’s for all hunters.
Enough of the complainers got the 90/10 on line.
Good for you.You just slightly increased your odds.
But now you have set in motion a whole game plan by the Guides Association that is way over your head.They are gonna strip the Residents and all DIY guys of a huge number of tags.
Landowners will get a much bigger chunk of the pie and the guides will control most of the rest.
Greedy resident hunters played right into there hands.A few years from now you are gonna wonder what hit you guys.
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We'll see who is over their head, and I assure you, WOGA will not strip tags from Residents.
 
fullcry said:
Yup
ALL you guys hunting in Wyoming have been systematically run down a rabbit hole.
Each thing they do narrows up the hunting opportunity’s for all hunters.
Enough of the complainers got the 90/10 on line.
Good for you.You just slightly increased your odds.
But now you have set in motion a whole game plan by the Guides Association that is way over your head.They are gonna strip the Residents and all DIY guys of a huge number of tags.
Landowners will get a much bigger chunk of the pie and the guides will control most of the rest.
Greedy resident hunters played right into there hands.A few years from now you are gonna wonder what hit you guys.
Click to expand...
Those darn Wyoming residents. I wonder who the complainers really are. Definitely not you.....
 
fullcry said:
Yup
ALL you guys hunting in Wyoming have been systematically run down a rabbit hole.
Each thing they do narrows up the hunting opportunity’s for all hunters.
Enough of the complainers got the 90/10 on line.
Good for you.You just slightly increased your odds.
But now you have set in motion a whole game plan by the Guides Association that is way over your head.They are gonna strip the Residents and all DIY guys of a huge number of tags.
Landowners will get a much bigger chunk of the pie and the guides will control most of the rest.
Greedy resident hunters played right into there hands.A few years from now you are gonna wonder what hit you guys.
Click to expand...
Are clients not hunters? How is it “each thing they do narrows up the hunting opportunities for all hunters”??

Also @fullcry I’m still waiting for you to have your alaska buddies kick my ass. I’m a little disappointed we haven’t met at mooses tooth yet.

All those hours at the gym and listening to eye of the tiger for nothing!
 
Status quo for everything!

Draw odds barely improve for Wyo res with 90/10 in limited units.

At current nonres quotas nonres have the choice of either hiring an outfitter or going diy/oyo. Leave quotas as is so outfitters have full number of clients at current quota levels rather than cutting nonres tags in 1/2 with 90/10. I’m certain outfitters are totally apposed to 90/10 since it cuts their potential clients in 1/2.

With status quo and not going to 90/10 neither Wyo res nor outfitters are totally happy.

The other benefit to status quo is there is no negative financial impact on WG&F revenue. Nonres currently contribute 70% of the limited license revenue and 100% of pref pt d/e/a revenue to the wg&f with status quo. Why change this?

Wyo res better watch their backs with 90/10 for d/e/a. You are assured with 90/10 that some sort of outfitter compromise will be made that will cut into resident opportunity somewhere else. Whether this is their own set aside tags, more elk, left over, or other tags…you can be guaranteed that outfitters will want something in exchange for 90/10. Is it really worth it? Why not cut to the chase and leave things as is with status quo?
 
My Idea would be that since this will go through, why not make it so that if you dont apply for the guided draw, and you apply for the regular draw and draw a tag, you are not able to then hire a guide. How will that go over? Pick your poison type of a thing.
 
Robiland said:
My Idea would be that since this will go through, why not make it so that if you dont apply for the guided draw, and you apply for the regular draw and draw a tag, you are not able to then hire a guide. How will that go over? Pick your poison type of a thing.
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After looking at the overwhelming amount of negative sentiment by the public (check out the 2000+ responses in their spreadsheet)- I surely hope you are wrong about "since this will go through".

As for the idea- it's interesting for sure. Too interesting in my mind. It could be the "compromise" they use to push this graft rule. And it assumes there is a balance of DIYs and Guided hunters to make it fair. I don't think that's the case.

I must say though- if it does go through, it is purely against the wishes of the hunting public based on the obvious bias against the rule. Therefore, it would be pushed through because of "special interest" of guides- who would argue (quite ironically and hypocritically) that your idea would keep people from making their own choices on how to hunt. Bad, very bad:rolleyes:
 
HikeHunt61 said:
After looking at the overwhelming amount of negative sentiment by the public (check out the 2000+ responses in their spreadsheet)- I surely hope you are wrong about "since this will go through".

As for the idea- it's interesting for sure. Too interesting in my mind. It could be the "compromise" they use to push this graft rule. And it assumes there is a balance of DIYs and Guided hunters to make it fair. I don't think that's the case.

I must say though- if it does go through, it is purely against the wishes of the hunting public based on the obvious bias against the rule. Therefore, it would be pushed through because of "special interest" of guides- who would argue (quite ironically and hypocritically) that your idea would keep people from making their own choices on how to hunt. Bad, very bad:rolleyes:
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I agree. I dont like what they are doing at all. I hate that money and special interest groups ($$$$) have such a big say in what happens.
 
I hear more and more about residents going guided. I wonder if the outfitter/guide draw would be for residents also? If so, I assume the tags would be pulled from the residents?
 
Obviously there are guided residents. Outfitter guided resident tags would have to come from somewhere? You never know what the outfitters will come up with. Any way you look at it those tags will be taken directly from diy/oyo hunters!

Any way you look at it, every tag issued in an outfitter draw is 1 less tag available to a Wyo res!

Outfitters in Wyo have no lack of clients. The better outfitters likely even have waiting lists! Why force tag quotas to an outfitter draw when the mass majority of hunters are DIY/OYO that will be impacted the most from tag cuts.

I say status quo and allow hunters decide once they draw tags whether they hire an outfitter or go diy/oyo.
 
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jims said:
Obviously there are guided residents. Outfitter guided resident tags would have to come from somewhere? You never know what the outfitters will come up with. Any way you look at it those tags will be taken directly from diy/oyo hunters!

Any way you look at it, every tag issued in an outfitter draw is 1 less tag available to a Wyo res!

Outfitters in Wyo have no lack of clients. The better outfitters likely even have waiting lists! Why force tag quotas to an outfitter draw when the mass majority of hunters are DIY/OYO that will be impacted the most from tag cuts.

I say status quo and allow hunters decide once they draw tags whether they hire an outfitter or go diy/oyo.
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No every tag issued to an outfitter is one less tag for a nonresident diy hunter. Every tag issued to a nonresident is one less issued to a resident
 
The initiatives are pretty clear. None of them are to issue "more" tags to NR. Residents will not be impacted.

The proposal is to take the existing NR tags and split them between guided and other. Only one group is negatively impacted- DIY NRs. And they are the majority of NR hunters (based on the overwhelming comments to the board).

Although I'd love to get the residents up in arms about the proposal- they would only do that out of the kindness of their hearts.
 
Residents and non residents have spoken. I scrolled through the comments. Residents and non residents are not in favor. Even a outfitter spoke against it. Out of 2000 plus comments only a very small handful said yes. If this was to pass then they clearly ingore the comments
 
nfh said:
Residents and non residents have spoken. I scrolled through the comments. Residents and non residents are not in favor. Even a outfitter spoke against it. Out of 2000 plus comments only a very small handful said yes. If this was to pass then they clearly ingore the comments
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Yea I think if it were to pass they would have ignored the comments as well which I wouldnt be suprised about because they know non resident diy hunters spend the least amount of money in the state and they are Impacting them on purpose because of that to increase resident opportunity and they knew from the get go they would get allot of hate mail from that group of hunters
 
One thing is for certain, if you commented last month, those comments will be ignored because the proposals for August are different. You need to get online and submit comments on the new six proposals now. With the solicitation of clients by the outfitters this month, it is likely there will be many more comments in favor of the outfitter draw. If you can take the time on here to complain you can get on that website and submit a comment.

And I will say "I told you so"
 
jm77 said:
One thing is for certain, if you commented last month, those comments will be ignored because the proposals for August are different. You need to get online and submit comments on the new six proposals now. With the solicitation of clients by the outfitters this month, it is likely there will be many more comments in favor of the outfitter draw. If you can take the time on here to complain you can get on that website and submit a comment.

And I will say "I told you so"
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Agreed, just sent in my comments.
 
I guess I’ll say it a different way. “Every tag issued in an outfitter set aside draw is 1 less tag that potentially could be issued to 1 Wyo resident rather than to outfitter clients that sign contracts.

Wyo res are actually fighting for the same tag that nonres diy hunters are vying for. I don’t think many Wyo res have figured this out.
 
Somehow the outfitters have convinced $$$ the task force that they are more important that either the hunters or the wildlife. They have offered up a solution for a problem that didn’t exist, and now Sy and boys on the TF are desperately trying to accommodate them. Next thing you know they will figure out a way to all get rich off an over budget construction project on Cody, one $25,000 change order at a time…
 
Savage110 said:
Somehow the outfitters have convinced $$$ the task force that they are more important that either the hunters or the wildlife. They have offered up a solution for a problem that didn’t exist, and now Sy and boys on the TF are desperately trying to accommodate them. Next thing you know they will figure out a way to all get rich off an over budget construction project on Cody, one $25,000 change order at a time…
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Cool story bro
 
jims said:
I guess I’ll say it a different way. “Every tag issued in an outfitter set aside draw is 1 less tag that potentially could be issued to 1 Wyo resident rather than to outfitter clients that sign contracts.

Wyo res are actually fighting for the same tag that nonres diy hunters are vying for. I don’t think many Wyo res have figured this out.
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No matter how you say it, it still makes NO sense.

Resident and Non Resident tags come from 2 separate allocations, not sure why you're having trouble understanding that?
 
Bob D. said:
So, a Wyoming state legislator is saying the proposed outfitter welfare idea is "dead in the water"

cowboystatedaily.com

Dedicated Licenses For Guides With Out-Of-State Hunters “Dead In The Water,” Says Legislator

A proposal by the Wyoming Wildlife Task Force to create a dedicated license pool for out-of-state big game hunters who use professional guides is likely dead in the water," says one Wyoming legislator.
cowboystatedaily.com cowboystatedaily.com
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LOL- I was just going to ask about the process after the task force. Appreciate you posting this.
 
HikeHunt61 said:
LOL- I was just going to ask about the process after the task force. Appreciate you posting this.
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Task force can only make recommendations, its been stated a dozen times in the various threads.

Any changes have to go through either the legislature or the GF Commission depending on if its a regulation change or statute change.
 
I wonder about the Wyoming outfitter's business models. Assuming one believes in the free market (I know some of you don't)- seems to me that if you want more business, your offerings should adjust to gain it.

The reason I have never used an outfitter has nothing to do with money. Honestly, if Wyo doubled or tripled the price of NR tags, I'd still buy them. The reason is a sense of what hunting is to me- doing it without being hand-held. Guides often call their hunters "shooters". For a reason.

Do any outfitters offer something that assists "DIY" hunters without directly being part of the actual hunt? The most obvious thing would be scouting information. Some hunters may only want help once the game is down. I imagine some outfits provide a pack, drop, pick up service?

I think outfitters ARE an important part of the overall hunting experience. I just hate to see them try to corner a market through rules/laws.
 
BuzzH said:
Task force can only make recommendations, its been stated a dozen times in the various threads.

Any changes have to go through either the legislature or the GF Commission depending on if its a regulation change or statute change.
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Gee thx Buzz. Of course, I already knew through the dozen threads and the website that they only make recommendations. I wasn't clear if the G&F could simply make the rule, or the legislature had a say in it. Like I said- the article helped.
 
HikeHunt61 said:
Gee thx Buzz. Of course, I already knew through the dozen threads and the website that they only make recommendations. I wasn't clear if the G&F could simply make the rule, or the legislature had a say in it. Like I said- the article helped.
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The GF Commission can make some of the changes if the changes don't require change to statute.

Example: Removing 7250 NR elk cap has to go through the GF commission and the public process. Its a regulation change, no legislative action required.

Some things take legislative changes, as in statute changes.

Example: 90-10 for the big 5 had to go through the legislative process because the allocations are defined in statute.

I agree where things are defined is all over the map, some in regulation, some in statute.

Either way, there is a public process before any recommendation from the task force makes either a statute or regulation change.
 
HikeHunt61 said:
I wonder about the Wyoming outfitter's business models. Assuming one believes in the free market (I know some of you don't)- seems to me that if you want more business, your offerings should adjust to gain it.

The reason I have never used an outfitter has nothing to do with money. Honestly, if Wyo doubled or tripled the price of NR tags, I'd still buy them. The reason is a sense of what hunting is to me- doing it without being hand-held. Guides often call their hunters "shooters". For a reason.

Do any outfitters offer something that assists "DIY" hunters without directly being part of the actual hunt? The most obvious thing would be scouting information. Some hunters may only want help once the game is down. I imagine some outfits provide a pack, drop, pick up service?

I think outfitters ARE an important part of the overall hunting experience. I just hate to see them try to corner a market through rules/laws.
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I agree with you, outfitters talk a good game about "free markets" but its all just a lie. They want "predictability" rather than having to actually work to find clients.

I heard it during the set aside proposal by Sy and others, they want the same returning clients every year. Why? So they don't have to work at finding new clients.

Several outfitters were complaining that they didn't get enough clients because of point creep. They estimated that say, a general elk tag would only take "X" amount of points, but creep got them so they're short on clients.

Funny thing is, they have their own outfitter portal via the GF that they can view every NR that drew a general elk tag. Complete with address, etc.

One outfitter complained that they would have to send out "hundreds" of emails and/or brochures to find clients from that list. Sounds like they just don't like looking for clients to me.

I'm over it, there is ample opportunity for outfitters to find all the clients they need, if they can't, well find another profession or job.
 
BuzzH said:
Funny thing is, they have their own outfitter portal via the GF that they can view every NR that drew a general elk tag. Complete with address, etc.

One outfitter complained that they would have to send out "hundreds" of emails and/or brochures to find clients from that list. Sounds like they just don't like looking for clients to me.

I'm over it, there is ample opportunity for outfitters to find all the clients they need, if they can't, well find another profession or job.
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And that's if they stick to their current biz model. Imagine if they moved to other areas of the market where their expertise has value.
 
Buzz, you and I both know allocations can be changed and every tag that could be issued to a outfitter client with outfitter set aside tags could potentially be issued as a resident tag if quotas were set up and changed by the commission or legislature.

It’s obvious that wheeling and dealing with outfitters is a loose-loose for both res and nonres. Do Wyo res really want to gamble with losing the 7250 nonres elk cap you mentioned in your post in exchange for an outfitter deal?

Sounds like status quo across the board isn’t ideal but has the least amount of impact on res, nonres, outfitters, WG&F and small town revenue!
 
jims said:
Buzz, you and I both know allocations can be changed and every tag that could be issued to a outfitter client with outfitter set aside tags could potentially be issued as a resident tag if quotas were set up and changed by the commission or legislature.

It’s obvious that wheeling and dealing with outfitters is a loose-loose for both res and nonres. Do Wyo res really want to gamble with losing the 7250 nonres elk cap you mentioned in your post in exchange for an outfitter deal?

Sounds like status quo across the board isn’t ideal but has the least amount of impact on res, nonres, outfitters, WG&F and small town revenue!
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This post is why it's a good idea to "just say no to drugs."
 

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