Jags......

Would be so cool to see a wild jaguar in the mountains. That said, oh man do they eat a lot of red meat, and I imagine they would need considerable range to maintain a thriving population. Once an introduction got formalized, the feds (along with legal heavy conservation groups) would surely make life interesting for state wildlife control. Wyoming has had so many issues with wolf control over the last couple decades along those lines. Moose hunting along the Wyoming range in particular has really gone down hill since their introduction, and elk habits during hunting season have changed dramatically. I just wish, if they did do this, that the states would have a majority say in objectives and approaches.
 
While it may be "cool", the problem is the management of said cats will be completely out of our control. And likely put a halt to lion hunting with dogs because of course we wouldn't want to disturb the new cats. And reduce elk and deer tags because after all the new cats need to eat and humans can just buy meat at the grocery store.

Everyone who thinks wolves, grizzly, and now jaguar are "cool" simply don't see that all of these "iconic" species are anti-hunting measures at their core. If they weren't why is there no push for reintroducing bison for instance?

Be careful what you wish for...
 
While it may be "cool", the problem is the management of said cats will be completely out of our control. And likely put a halt to lion hunting with dogs because of course we wouldn't want to disturb the new cats. And reduce elk and deer tags because after all the new cats need to eat and humans can just buy meat at the grocery store.

Everyone who thinks wolves, grizzly, and now jaguar are "cool" simply don't see that all of these "iconic" species are anti-hunting measures at their core. If they weren't why is there no push for reintroducing bison for instance?

Be careful what you wish for...
Well maybe you need to stop being selfish. The majority of the population of the United States do not hunt. Just because you do doesn’t mean we need to rob people of the ability to get to experience a wolf or grizzly in their natural habitat.
Wolves have been back for over 20 years in states like WY MT and ID. You still have the opportunity to hunt all three states this fall if you want to. Hell Wyoming you can kill 3 elk FFS.

Regarding bison youneed to be more aware, there is a group trying to bring bison back. Have @highfastflyer google it for you. Or do it yourself. Herds have been reintroduced on some tribal lands and on public land in AK. I’m sure more areas in the future will get them.
 
Mountain lions and Jags I wonder who would out breed the other.
Jags I'm sure would munch on a Mtn Lion if they caught them.
 
slightlysober: If you feel "hunting" in the grocery store is OK then call me selfish. 99.9% of the public NEVER experiences a wolf or grizzly in their natural habitat. It just makes them "feel better" to "know they are out there".

It is a fact that in many areas where wolves have been forcefully "reintroduced" and then managed by lawsuit despite drastically exceeding their original goal, the numbers of elk, deer and moose populations have dropped, in many cases plummeted. Look at elk numbers around Yellowstone as just one example. Look at moose numbers in Alaska after banning aerial shooting of wolves (which is the ONLY way to manage their numbers in a huge land without any other viable access).

In a perfect world I have no problem with large predators being out there, but this world ain't perfect and it has been proven time and time and time again that lawsuits are used to stop or delay any attempt to manage their numbers.

And sure, there are probably fringe groups that want to reintroduce bison, but no huge mass of virtue signalers like there is for "apex predators".
 
slightlysober: If you feel "hunting" in the grocery store is OK then call me selfish. 99.9% of the public NEVER experiences a wolf or grizzly in their natural habitat. It just makes them "feel better" to "know they are out there".

It is a fact that in many areas where wolves have been forcefully "reintroduced" and then managed by lawsuit despite drastically exceeding their original goal, the numbers of elk, deer and moose populations have dropped, in many cases plummeted. Look at elk numbers around Yellowstone as just one example. Look at moose numbers in Alaska after banning aerial shooting of wolves (which is the ONLY way to manage their numbers in a huge land without any other viable access).

In a perfect world I have no problem with large predators being out there, but this world ain't perfect and it has been proven time and time and time again that lawsuits are used to stop or delay any attempt to manage their numbers.

And sure, there are probably fringe groups that want to reintroduce bison, but no huge mass of virtue signalers like there is for "apex predators".
Where have wolves been forcibly reintroduced? Prior to 1996 public opinion was in favor of wolves. So please do tell..

No one needs to hunt to fill their freezer. That’s just an excuse to justify the means. Fact.

Aerial shooting of wolves is illegal in Alaska? That’s news to me.

Elk in the national elk refuge is still above objective. You can shoot multiple elk around there. Sounds real bad ?

Its cool you hate wolves. Luckily most don’t.
 
Where have wolves been forcibly reintroduced? Prior to 1996 public opinion was in favor of wolves. So please do tell..

No one needs to hunt to fill their freezer. That’s just an excuse to justify the means. Fact.

Aerial shooting of wolves is illegal in Alaska? That’s news to me.

Elk in the national elk refuge is still above objective. You can shoot multiple elk around there. Sounds real bad ?

Its cool you hate wolves. Luckily most don’t.
Who in the hell is this jackwagon?? ?. Sounds like you're on the wrong damn forum to be preaching your liberal rhetoric. Must work for MLG or something ??
 
Who in the hell is this jackwagon?? ?. Sounds like you're on the wrong damn forum to be preaching your liberal rhetoric. Must work for MLG or something ??
??? this liberal spends more time in the outdoors killing **** in a year than your closed minded does in 5.

Luckily guys like you just complain so you will never get your way.

wolf lives matter!
 
??? this liberal spends more time in the outdoors killing **** in a year than your closed minded does in 5.

Luckily guys like you just complain so you will never get your way.

wolf lives matter!
I very seriously doubt that LOL. Oh and BTW it would be "closed mind does" not "closed minded". But that's on your 2nd grade teacher sport
 
I very seriously doubt that LOL. Oh and BTW it would be "closed mind does" not "closed minded". But that's on your 2nd grade teacher sport
0A324F38-1491-4D57-AF6C-0D6298458A9A.png

Thanks for checking me out ????
 
I very seriously doubt that LOL. Oh and BTW it would be "closed mind does" not "closed minded". But that's on your 2nd grade teacher sport
Here comes the clients pics hahaha. Outfitter against wolves who would of thought it. You liberal outfitter has to have an outfitters only draw haha. If that’s not welfare what is??
 
Where have wolves been forcibly reintroduced? Prior to 1996 public opinion was in favor of wolves. So please do tell..

No one needs to hunt to fill their freezer. That’s just an excuse to justify the means. Fact.

Aerial shooting of wolves is illegal in Alaska? That’s news to me.

Elk in the national elk refuge is still above objective. You can shoot multiple elk around there. Sounds real bad ?

Its cool you hate wolves. Luckily most don’t.
“Its cool you hate wolves. Luckily most don’t.”
They aren’t loved much in Idaho. Luckily, Wyoming was a bit smarter and got them listed as predators in 80% of the state so we never had quite the impact that Idaho and Montana experienced.
For reintroduction this is what was promised was 10 breeding packs and 100 wolves. What we got was something far done different than promised so Idaho is pushing back on what was promised.

10 breeding pairs each in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. Final environmental impact statement predicted wolves would kill about 10 cattle and 57 sheep per year when the population goal was reached.

1999: 140 wolves in Idaho, 12 packs, 65 pups minimum.* Wolves killed 19 cattle and 64 sheep.**

2003: 375 wolves in Idaho, 38 packs. Wolves killed 19 cattle, 173 sheep and six dogs.

2006: 673 wolves in Idaho, 76 packs. Wolves killed 40 cattle, 237 sheep and four dogs.

2009: 835 wolves in Idaho, 94 packs. Wolves killed 98 cattle, 442 sheep, and 15 dogs.

2009: IDFG holds its first wolf hunting season. More than 29,000 tags were sold, 135 wolves harvested.

2011: 850 animals, 101 packs in Idaho and 24 packs on the borders with Montana, Wyoming and Washington. Wolves killed 90 cattle, 147 sheep, seven dogs, four horses and two domestic bison.

Republican Idaho Gov. Brad Little signed a bill into law to allow hunters and government-hired private contractors to kill up to 90% of the state’s 1,500 wolves.
Little signed the bill on Thursday after it passed the state’s Senate and House with enough votes to override a veto
 
The left is trying to replace hunters. We start protecting and adding predators the need for hunting diminishes. You think that isn't their end goal?
I have always said it isn't the pink haired teenager in the city or the dopey old woman that watches CNN 8 hours a day that will bring down hunting.
Its the appeasing hunters looking for attention that they will exploit to do the job. They are huntings worse enemy.
 
Who in the hell is this jackwagon?? ?. Sounds like you're on the wrong damn forum to be preaching your liberal rhetoric. Must work for MLG or something ??
tega52 You just have to ignore SS he is just a pimple faced kid in his mama's basement, when you engage him it just eggs him on. We all all know whatever he says is irrelevant to this site, just act like he doesn't exist, and he will lose interest and go troll somewhere else.
 
tega52 You just have to ignore SS he is just a pimple faced kid in his mama's basement, when you engage him it just eggs him on. We all all know whatever he says is irrelevant to this site, just act like he doesn't exist, and he will lose interest and go troll somewhere else.
Jack I know. I like to get them fired up sometimes LOL. We all know he's a piece of ****. Sometimes you just gotta make it known. You and me are from here....life long. These liberal POS try, but they'll never change the way of life we have up north.
 
Isn't it funny he hasn't chimed in since yesterday? Apparently his White Claw bravery was too much for him to handle!
 
"... 99.9% of the public NEVER experiences a wolf or grizzly in their natural habitat. It just makes them "feel better" to "know they are out there..."
Learned this in Microeconomics 201. More than thirty years ago. Telling is that non-users' valuation is really high until they get an invoice. Then it's all about their valuation of my dollars.
 
The left up to there tricks get rid of hunters so you can get rid of guns it’s all a plan. We have to stick together!
 
If NM had a state legislature and gov'r wirth any salt, they would promptly pht a halt to this.

Why is anyone afraid of special interest groups like the sierra club, wild earth guardians,and others? Because they a federal "judge" in their pocket?
 
If NM had a state legislature and gov'r wirth any salt, they would promptly pht a halt to this.

Why is anyone afraid of special interest groups like the sierra club, wild earth guardians,and others? Because they a federal "judge" in their pocket?
NM doesn't even have voters with common sense , that's why the state has this governor to begin with!!Governors , judges , dang near ALL politicians are simply dishonest people with personal or political agendas that very rarely have the people of the state/communities best interest. Judges letting off poachers with a slap on the wrist , more predators released with extreme protection (NM Rancher vs wolf) , and the Highest of all the politicians , Gov MLG do as I say not as I do ...Out buying jewelry from a retail store who opened its doors for her purchase while 99.9 % of all other retailers were forced to close due to this dangerous Covid 19!!!! Its all horse $hit!!!!
 
I'm all for making things they way they use to be, like when a hunting lic wasn't required and you could kill whatever you wanted to feed your family. All or nothing.

-Sarcasm
 
I'm all for making things they way they use to be, like when a hunting lic wasn't required and you could kill whatever you wanted to feed your family. All or nothing.

-Sarcasm
According to an article about it, the desire is to bring back the ecosystem.

Well, our human ecosystem sould have let covid run its natural course. We didn't because things change over time and the loss of wolves and jags is one of those changes...
 
My understanding is jags are already in Az and NM. I would imagine that it would be super hard to match DNA from these same sub-species. People will probably mess up the reintroduction and wipe and the generics of the few wild ones already here.

Give natural time and let the jags take hold naturally...
 
I would say this would never happen but I’ve learned that all crazy chit is on the table. Gila is a bit north for the jags but I imagine they could survive. Not even sure if there is much historical data of jags in the Gila. 2 for sure sightings of jags have been seen in NM in the boot heal in the last 25yrs. Might be another but those are only 2 with proof. AZ. has had quite a few more cross the border. They have trail cams of one that would come across regularly, this was a few years ago. My point is if jags wanted to be in the Gila they already would be there.

I would love to see one in the wild, I lion hunted for a lot of years and seeing a wild jag would be incredible. Cant says that I’m against it for that reason. Jags like lions are somewhat self regulating and there populations wouldn’t get out of control like the wolfs are fixing to. Plus being mainly nocturnal and cat stealthy no one would hardly ever see them or there sign. That’s the funny part is the bunny huggers that want them would never see them. World is changing
 
Jag or a lion, same thing. Most likely will not be anymore game killed? I would much rather chase a jag with my dogs. Hell of a race that would be.
Hunted elk in Arizona a few years back and the guy I hunted with had pics of his dogs with 2 different Jags. Very cool selfie with one of them.
Huge Tom with blocky head.
He says more than what you would think are on this side of the border.
 
Imo, our forefathers had it right. Reduce things that kill the critters we love to eat. That equals more critters in each of our freezers. Lions, jags and coyotes won't be eliminated simply held in check and by doing so ( as our forefathers) we have better opportunities to harvest more deer, elk and antelope. My thoughts.
 
According to an article about it, the desire is to bring back the ecosystem.

Well, our human ecosystem sould have let covid run its natural course. We didn't because things change over time and the loss of wolves and jags is one of those changes...
When we bringing back Mule deer? NM favorite “opportunity” hunt. ?

I just can’t wrap my head around bring animals back that couldn’t maintain their population. Especially when we are having enough issues keeping the remaining animal populations from being depleted completely. I again find it odd that a state that can’t maintain a population suddenly wants to reintroduce and a new animal and grow the population.

How about let’s start small and work on the very animals that are currently here and getting wiped out like mule deer and than shoot for the stars down the road. Kind of the crawl before you walk deal. JMO.
 
When we bringing back Mule deer? NM favorite “opportunity” hunt. ?

How about let’s start small and work on the very animals that are currently here and getting wiped out like mule deer and than shoot for the stars down the road. Kind of the crawl before you walk deal. JMO.

Thanks to the cluelessness of the land commissioner and state legislature, that endeavor is compromised with the "ban" on coyote hunting the way it needs to be...
 

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