Just another 22 million acres, it's for the climate

hossblur

hossblur

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BLM Proposes 22 Million Acres of Public Lands for Solar Energy - EcoWatch

The U.S. DOI announced a new solar energy “roadmap” including 22 million acres of public lands to expand solar energy development in the West
www.ecowatch.com www.ecowatch.com

I always said the left will be better on public lands than the right, until they find a way to make money off it. Looks like we get to fight both sides now.

Sure hope you'll follow the comment link at the end of the article and comment.
 
Sigh....

Cover every single acre of the entire US with solar panels: every desert, every forest with a wolf running in it, every national park, the White House lawn, your grandma's garden, all 3.8M square miles. Know what you got? Not enough to fully power the country.

Oh, the eco warriors claim it's way less. But they only consider the current renewable sources in their "how much is needed" calculations. Total energy? Insane.

The point: solar panels SUCK in Negative Impact to KWh ratio. Sucks worse than any other power source if you love nature.
 
Anybody Ever Notice What An Eyesore All Of This New GREENIE Type Energy Creates?

Most Will Say:

At Least It's Just In KALI,Nevada & Arizona!

Some Of It's Already Here In DRATville!

Gonna Take A Bunch Of Eyesores To Produce All The Power This World Needs!

Guess I'll Play you All A Song!

 
They’re putting in a couple thousand acres of them down the road from me. Prime winter range that has elk on it every winter. Adios forever (n)
 
Idaho has already become the dumping ground for solar
IMG_0822.png
 
Wow, the BLM is in the clean energy business. I wonder what the economics looks like when you compare the dino versus dingbat rate of return? I didn’t do the tesla/acre math, but 22 million acres seems like a lot of solar ****.

“Our public lands are playing a critical role in the clean energy transition – and the progress the Bureau of Land Management is announcing today on several clean energy projects across the West represents our continued momentum in achieving those goals,” said Tracy Stone-Manning, BLM director, in the press release. “Investing in clean and reliable renewable energy represents the BLM’s commitment to building a clean energy economy, tackling the climate crisis, promoting American energy security, and creating jobs in communities across the country.”
:mad:
 
Some loud voices are real quiet.

In no particular order

BHA

TRCP

RMEF

SFW

MDF

Along with some loud individuals

Steve Rinella, Ryan Callahan, Randy Newberg, Buzz, Don Peay.


If there's a copper mine in Alaska proposed it's deafening.

Solar projects proposed in areas of migration corridors, winter range, big game nurseries, etc, and it's crickets.

I've already tried contacting BHA, TRCP, RMEF.

Also into Blake Moore, Mike Lee, Mitt Romney.
 
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The BLM goal is 700,000 acres of solar across 11 western states over the next 20 years. It will never happen because of NEPA and rights-of-way issues. Plus, once you build it there isn't capacity in the grid.
 
D_Hoyt said:
The BLM goal is 700,000 acres of solar across 11 western states over the next 20 years. It will never happen because of NEPA and rights-of-way issues. Plus, once you build it there isn't capacity in the grid.
Click to expand...

You really believe NEPA is going to stop solar expansion?
 
Folks remember rules only apply to one side of the political spectrum, things like Nepa are only to stop oil and gas exploration, but putting wolves in Co?! Don’t have time for no dang Nepa! Lefties never fight fair and that’s our problem… well at least we will be saving the planet while destroying several species out west… oh and I’m sure there is a plan in place to decommission these things without putting millions of tons of toxic materials to leech into the soil and groundwater…
 
It's hypocritical for the left to promote solar on public land while banning drilling.

It's also hypocritical for the drill-baby-drill crowd to complain that solar is disturbing public land while calling for more drilling.

Everything has become so politicized that people have to check for the R or D before forming an opinion because nothing either side says is intellectually defensible anymore.

IMO, a large solar array is more detrimental to an immediate area than oil drilling or windmills. But none of them are zero sum games. It seems there should be plenty of useless private dry range that could be bought or leased for solar panels without destroying public land.
 
What sucks is that it will never end. The past 20 or so years I have seen so much land go in the areas I frequent. Too bad they get unconditional support no matter the location. That is what needs to change. Put them up in areas we already screwed up.

Just a few in some of my favorite places-

OBED MEADOW SOLAR AND GENERATION TIE LINE PROJECT - Obed Meadow Solar Project

Project Overview Jump To: Project Overview Project Map Public Participation Contact Us Aurora Solar LLC is planning a solar power generation facility and generation tie electric transmission line (“Project”) near Joseph City in Navajo County, Arizona. The Project is a planned 200-megawatt solar...
obedmeadowsolar.com

West Camp Wind Farm | AES

www.aes.com www.aes.com

Chevelon Butte Wind Farm | AES

www.aes.com www.aes.com

www.hdrinc.com

Dry Lake Wind Energy

Powering 15,000 homes with Arizona’s first commercial-scale wind power project. Iberdrola Renewables brought us on board to help conduct environmental reviews for a commercial-scale wind power project crossing 6,000 acres in Navajo County, Arizona. The wind farm includes 30 wind turbines...
www.hdrinc.com www.hdrinc.com

All that I posted are kind of close together. The Dry Lake Farm has two phases and 61 total turbines in an area that used to be nice called the Pink Cliffs. They plan on having a total of over 200 turbines in the future.

Griz is right that it’s a hypocritical thing. I know some of the landowners that share some of the public lands that benefit from these are definitely not Democrat.
.
 
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hossblur said:
Some loud voices are real quiet.

In no particular order

BHA

TRCP

RMEF

SFW

MDF

Along with some loud individuals

Steve Rinella, Ryan Callahan, Randy Newberg, Buzz, Don Peay.


If there's a copper mine in Alaska proposed it's deafening.

Solar projects proposed in areas of migration corridors, winter range, big game nurseries, etc, and it's crickets.

I've already tried contacting BHA, TRCP, RMEF.

Also into Blake Moore, Mike Lee, Mitt Romney.
Click to expand...
100%
 
grizzly said:
It's hypocritical for the left to promote solar on public land while banning drilling.

It's also hypocritical for the drill-baby-drill crowd to complain that solar is disturbing public land while calling for more drilling.

Everything has become so politicized that people have to check for the R or D before forming an opinion because nothing either side says is intellectually defensible anymore.

IMO, a large solar array is more detrimental to an immediate area than oil drilling or windmills. But none of them are zero sum games. It seems there should be plenty of useless private dry range that could be bought or leased for solar panels without destroying public land.
Click to expand...
Agree- but...

The amount of energy derived per disturbed acre of solar is a fraction of a percent compared to an oil/gas well. And to a large degree, drilling disturbances can ultimately be recovered, while solar arrays need to stick around "forever". Maybe I'm missing the bigger picture.

Programs: Energy and Minerals: Oil and Gas: Reclamation | Bureau of Land Management

www.blm.gov www.blm.gov
 
grizzly said:
It's hypocritical for the left to promote solar on public land while banning drilling.

It's also hypocritical for the drill-baby-drill crowd to complain that solar is disturbing public land while calling for more drilling.

Everything has become so politicized that people have to check for the R or D before forming an opinion because nothing either side says is intellectually defensible anymore.

IMO, a large solar array is more detrimental to an immediate area than oil drilling or windmills. But none of them are zero sum games. It seems there should be plenty of useless private dry range that could be bought or leased for solar panels without destroying public land.
Click to expand...
This is true, I get the feeling that it’s more about stacking the deck so the politicians and their cronies can make bank with their team, be it solar or petro…

I will say, I have hunted in petro country in and around the goshen rim and that place is packed with wildlife, deer, elk, pronghorn, upland game even saw some sage grouse. Now I don’t think I would be allowed to hunt in and around a solar array, and with the above surface real estate they take up not sure how you would. If we had real adults that actually wanted to solve problems we could cut up 200-300 square miles and plop a few nuclear power plants down and power the western half of the United States…. Yep still have trade offs but to pretend like solar is our saving grace is silly, we don’t have the grid to move and store that energy effectively, plus great idea when 98% of the solar panels come from China… what could go wrong?
 
Hoss- I wonder if the BLM has a wildlife impact assessment for those lands? I went to the site, but it isn't apparent specifically what areas are being considered (probably too inpatient to find it).
 
D_Hoyt said:
Stop? No.

But, NEPA slows everything down. Even solar. The biggest hurdles will be grid capacity and battery storage. It's just not there.
Click to expand...


In my brain I'm visualizing IPP plant in Delta, surrounded by hundreds of square miles of solar panels so California can be emission free by .2035.

Most of that slowing gets done by lawsuit. I'm trying to figure out if there is a group that would try
 
You guys just don't understand what a good deal this is for us.

I posted this same article on other sites.

I'm sure you can guess which one, full of want to be intellectuals have spent the day explaining why this is good, because our favorite resident of Laramie and his group, are part of the discussion.

The list of "hunting" groups who commented last year are a who's who of the ones we would fear doing so.

Lots of moustache wax and IPA are all on board.
 
elkassassin said:
Anybody Ever Notice What An Eyesore All Of This New GREENIE Type Energy Creates?

Most Will Say:

At Least It's Just In KALI,Nevada & Arizona!

Some Of It's Already Here In DRATville!

Gonna Take A Bunch Of Eyesores To Produce All The Power This World Needs!

Guess I'll Play you All A Song!

Click to expand...
I think this one hits a little closer to it...........

"Rainbow Stew"

There's a big brown cloud in the city
And the countryside's a sin
And the price of life is too high to give up
Gotta come down again
When the world wide war is over and done
And the dream of peace comes true
We'll all be drinking that free bubble up
And eating that rainbow stew

When they find out how to burn water
And the gasoline car is gone
When an airplane flies without any fuel
And sunlight heats our home
One of these days when the air clears up
And the sun come shining through
We'll all be drinking that free bubble up
And eating that rainbow stew

[Chorus]
Eating rainbow stew with a silver spoon
Underneath that sky of blue
We'll all be drinking that free bubble up
And eating that rainbow stew

[Music break]

You don't have to get high to be happy
Just think about what's in store
When people start doin' what they oughta to be doin'
They won't be booing no more
When a president goes through the white house doors
An' does what he says he'll do
We'll all be drinking that free bubble up
And eating that rainbow stew
 
hossblur said:
You guys just don't understand what a good deal this is for us.

I posted this same article on other sites.

I'm sure you can guess which one, full of want to be intellectuals have spent the day explaining why this is good, because our favorite resident of Laramie and his group, are part of the discussion.

The list of "hunting" groups who commented last year are a who's who of the ones we would fear doing so.

Lots of moustache wax and IPA are all on board.
Click to expand...
The mental gymnastics that gets done on the daily by some are hilarious… they can’t even begin to admit that there is a certain group of extreme liberals who would like to ban hunting and bow down to the green agenda above all else…
 
I was a member. This is the subject that burned me, years ago.

Development of oil was bad. Development of solar was good.

I was sitting there wondering why we want to develop public land period.

That, and any group that has the mayor of Laramie in leadership, makes you question your choices
 
Current active oil and gas leases on federal land is already at 23 million acres (and growing) Throw in about another 1/2 million in active coal. Solar is at 38,000 and the problem is solar? So they predict 22 million in solar. What’s the projection for oil and gas over that same 20 year period? Bet it grows faster than solar. The problem is to many people needing to many resources and there simply aren’t enough. Arguing about one or the other of these seems pointless when they both will take us to the same conclusion. Why is anybody against abortion? We should be promoting it!
 
Pinlard said:
Current active oil and gas leases on federal land is already at 23 million acres (and growing) Throw in about another 1/2 million in active coal. Solar is at 38,000 and the problem is solar? So they predict 22 million in solar. What’s the projection for oil and gas over that same 20 year period? Bet it grows faster than solar. The problem is to many people needing to many resources and there simply aren’t enough. Arguing about one or the other of these seems pointless when they both will take us to the same conclusion. Why is anybody against abortion? We should be promoting it!
Click to expand...

Bullshit.

Our artificial capping of more efficient energy sources are solely political, be that fossil fuels, or nuke.

This is 100% the left putting a monetary value on public land. The very thing they say Mike Lee does.
 
Solar = acres covered. Solar field desert creating a solar field mono culture. O&G is splattered thought area with many having multiple wells per sight and thriving ecosystems mixed in. Coal is also scattered with many being subterranean. Coal mines are also mandated to remediation since the are only temporary. Is solar temporary? My guess no. Unless the sun burns out.
 
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Pinlard said:
Current active oil and gas leases on federal land is already at 23 million acres (and growing) Throw in about another 1/2 million in active coal. Solar is at 38,000 and the problem is solar? So they predict 22 million in solar. What’s the projection for oil and gas over that same 20 year period? Bet it grows faster than solar. The problem is to many people needing to many resources and there simply aren’t enough. Arguing about one or the other of these seems pointless when they both will take us to the same conclusion. Why is anybody against abortion? We should be promoting it!
Click to expand...
Every solar patch I have seen has been stripped of vegetation and enclosed with 8' chainlink and concertina wire. Sounds like great multi-use habitat! But I have seen all sorts of deer, pronghorn, and elk standing and feeding on drill pads.
 
I am all about "all the above" but this greenie crap is speculation at its finest while full on creating a national security threat. Let alone us but how about our allies? Yup, let's force our allies to negotiate trade with those fixed to destroy the USA and many of our allied relationships while giving a ratz azz about us or them but rather gaining control of nations.

Now tidal hydropower is bad. Inland hydropower is bad. Oceanic wind generation is bad. We know O&G & coal is bad. Oil shale is gawdly bad. Nuclear is bad. But inland wind power and solar is👍. Do ya see a pattern? WAFJ.... I'm gonna have another cocktail 🍹!!! Cheers!!✌️
 
tailchasers said:
Solar = acres covered. Solar field desert creating a solar field mono culture. O&G is splattered thought area with many having multiple wells per sight and thriving ecosystems mixed in. Coal is also scattered with many being subterranean. Coal mines are also mandated to remediation since the are only temporary. Is solar temporary? My guess no. Unless the sun burns out.
Click to expand...


Once the gov stops the subsidy, it's gone.

Ask Solyndra and Lordstown
 
A handful of Nuclear Power plants, strategically placed to feed into the existing transmission grid would produce more electricity than all the solar fields, and only require a few hundred acres.

I hate looking out over a landscape filled with an ever growing sea of “China Glass”

Also don’t forget solar is one hundred percent dependent on good old fossil fuel.
 
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Yup!

The CHINA EVERY-F'N-THING!


Castnshoot said:
A handful of Nuclear Power plants, strategically placed to feed into the existing transmission grid would produce more electricity than all the solar fields, and only require a few hundred acres.

I hate looking out over a landscape filled with an ever growing sea of “China Glass”

So sad.
Click to expand...
 
Haven't you guys heard?? We're going to save the world from evil mankind! Wildlife habitat be damned!!

Ironically, the Interior Secretary talks about job creation. Someone built a solar facility here in pronghorn-rich Sweetwater County a few years ago. Right over a known pronghorn migration route. G&F advised them about this, but to no avail. Hail green energy! Wildlife habitat be damned! Since we're already ruining their centuries-long migration route, there's no need for the wildlife! Wildlife be damned! We're saving the planet!! So...the first year after this facility was built, the antelope chose a route adjacent to a highway that goes to a couple of mines northwest of Green River that has a ton of traffic 3 times a day during shift change. Not to mention regular daily traffic. You can imagine how that went. Not well. The antelope have since decided to mostly take a route on the other end of this green facility, which goes along the edge of a steep dropoff down into some badlands (well..those that survived). They don't like it. That's why they avoided it the first year. Some still go by the highway. This green facility has them confused. Their centuries-long migration route has been destroyed. Centuries long. For "green" energy. Doesn't that include wildlife?? Shouldn't it??? The only "green" involved here is $$$$$$. Bottom line. Someone's pockets are getting greased, and it's not the employees for this supposed "job creation" that Stone-Manning speaks of.

This facility has 3 employees; maybe only 2. But it is a great job!! I'm sure security guard really pays well! Lots of nap time...
 
Tikka said:
Drive south of I-80, west of the Stansbury Mtn range and see the graveyard of solar panels… They have never even be completed… Yet left for all to see…
Puck solar panels and windmills, I’ll take drilling any day of both of those…
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I'll take a good drilling any day of the week.....wink, wink!
 
montezumarchery said:
The best part of this nonsense is the fact that solar panels are only 47% or so efficient at 77⁰. The panels lose efficiency at a rate of 1% per 3⁰ of temperature rise above 77⁰. 🤦‍♂️
Click to expand...
Wait....so when it gets hotter (over 77) the panels are LESS productive? So summer months in Death Valley are not the place for solar panels? I wonder if they've done any research on areas that have a consistent temp around 77 degrees during daylight hours.
 
Wiszard said:
Wait....so when it gets hotter (over 77) the panels are LESS productive? So summer months in Death Valley are not the place for solar panels? I wonder if they've done any research on areas that have a consistent temp around 77 degrees during daylight hours.
Click to expand...
Yes, the hotter they are the less efficient they are. Can you imagine how hot a black panel laying out in death Valley on a 120⁰ day is. I would imagine over 200⁰. So if my calculator isn't lying to me, on a day like that it would render a panel 6% efficient at best.
 
montezumarchery said:
Yes, the hotter they are the less efficient they are. Can you imagine how hot a black panel laying out in death Valley on a 120⁰ day is. I would imagine over 200⁰. So if my calculator isn't lying to me, on a day like that it would render a panel 6% efficient at best.
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Sounds about right… But by gawd, at least it isn’t oil or coal!
 
It will be like Electric cars which are an environmental disaster but because the left has brainwashed millennials and beyond they will do it no matter how bad it is for the environment because but muh global warming justifies any destructive action as long as some university somewhere can say it's good for the planet.
 
I am not an expert. I did my research about 2 years ago when I was looking into getting my wife a tesla. The only way I would do it is if I could have panels and a battery bank that would charge the car when it was home for the night. That is when I realized how inefficient this $hit is!
 
montezumarchery said:
I am not an expert. I did my research about 2 years ago when I was looking into getting my wife a tesla. The only way I would do it is if I could have panels and a battery bank that would charge the car when it was home for the night. That is when I realized how inefficient this $hit is!
Click to expand...
And if you live in Cali like me, they'll ask you to please not charge it between 9 pm and 2 am. So f'ing lame....
 
I have not done any research on solar panels.
But, how much energy does it take to make them? How long do they last before they need to be replaced? Then, what about getting rid of the old, worn out solar panels.......toxic waste?

I feel the same way about electric cars, battery powered tools, etc. All that material needed to be dug up, changed into the product, and then disposed of when worn out. Batteries are toxic waste. How do we get rid of them?
 
woodturner said:
I have not done any research on solar panels.
But, how much energy does it take to make them? How long do they last before they need to be replaced? Then, what about getting rid of the old, worn out solar panels.......toxic waste?

I feel the same way about electric cars, battery powered tools, etc. All that material needed to be dug up, changed into the product, and then disposed of when worn out. Batteries are toxic waste. How do we get rid of them?
Click to expand...
My guess is because this is a gov't project, the panels will need too be replaced every 10-12 years to make sure they continue to get funding.
 
woodturner said:
I have not done any research on solar panels.
But, how much energy does it take to make them? How long do they last before they need to be replaced? Then, what about getting rid of the old, worn out solar panels.......toxic waste?

I feel the same way about electric cars, battery powered tools, etc. All that material needed to be dug up, changed into the product, and then disposed of when worn out. Batteries are toxic waste. How do we get rid of them?
Click to expand...

**** ton of diesel to ship them from China
 

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