Kiling off Idahos deer!
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andrew12gauge
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I mean, they tested like 3500 deer this year and got 15 positives, all from slate creek, and all the positives in 2021 were in slate creek. I think in this case it may actually be warranted. Knock out that slate creek deer herd and see what happens. Maybe Idaho can be the first state to be CWD free after it has shown up
Angry Chair
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Sounds similar to "15 days to slow the spread"
BGnight
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It's ironic the amount of regulations these gov't agencies impose on the public then they always turn around and do something insanely heavy handed. I worked for IDFG as a seasonal back in '91 (?) when I was 18 and helped the agency kill off 7 miles of the salmon river with rotenone project that went wrong. I remember them just dumping barrel upon barrel of that crap into yellowbelly lake with a ridiculous plan to offset the poison going out by neutralizing it with potassium permanganate. Needless to say, it didn't work. As a kid who didn't know ****, I thought it seemed insane at the time. Just poisoning a huge lake cuz brook trout bad
OLDHORNHUNTER
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CWD has been around since 1967 !! MN WI IL and MO have had CWD for over 40 years !! Their #1 management tool is herd reduction #2 they ban ALL use of bait !! #3 they try and keep the infected carcasses in the areas they were killed !! Idaho F&G allowed hunters to haul their dead infected deer all over the state and the Idaho dip Shits are planning on using BAIT SITES !! How many affected deer will come in when the F&G guys are not there, or are on break whacking off in the woods ETC !! And if they kill all the deer in 14 even ones that are NOT affected & next season they find one in unit 10 or 13 are they going to kill all of those deer as well ??
Angry Chair
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When did IDFG allow that?
Chronic Wasting Disease - The Rules
Rules to Reduce Risk of CWD Spread in Idaho The following rules are in effect because of the threat CWD poses to the state's deer, moose, and elk. Restrictions on the Import of Live Wild Cervids Importation into Idaho of live cervids not regulated by the Idaho Department of Agriculture will not...
idfg.idaho.gov
Arrowelk
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If they do nothing, it is guaranteed to spread to other units and or become much more prevalent in the current herd. Now is the time to take drastic action if there ever is. They are not killing off the entire unit, not even the entire canyon as 18 is across the river. Pretty specific area they are working in.
It has never been ok (since DWD was detected) to transport a deer or elk whole or any part of the brain stem out of the the 3 units that are impacted.
How do/did they get control of Mad Cow Disease? it sure as hell wasn't by saying it's been around for ever and it will be fine if we just leave the infected ones alone.....
If it is detected in another unit, we should expect changed regulations that would significantly reduce the populations there as well.
It has never been ok (since DWD was detected) to transport a deer or elk whole or any part of the brain stem out of the the 3 units that are impacted.
How do/did they get control of Mad Cow Disease? it sure as hell wasn't by saying it's been around for ever and it will be fine if we just leave the infected ones alone.....
If it is detected in another unit, we should expect changed regulations that would significantly reduce the populations there as well.
OLDHORNHUNTER
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Last year !!! none of the check stations kept any of the deer that tested positive !! They took the samples to their testing facilities Where did the rest of the infected animal go ???When did IDFG allow that?
Chronic Wasting Disease - The Rules
Rules to Reduce Risk of CWD Spread in Idaho The following rules are in effect because of the threat CWD poses to the state's deer, moose, and elk. Restrictions on the Import of Live Wild Cervids Importation into Idaho of live cervids not regulated by the Idaho Department of Agriculture will not...
Angry Chair
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IDFG doesn't have access to instant-result testing. Samples must go back to the lab, and results take a week or two. IDFG does not allow the spine or brain out of units 14 and 15. If an animal tests positive, IDFG will dispose of the meat if the hunter wishes.
easy_money
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So, if you killed a deer in 14, had it tested and results came back positive for CWD, would you still eat it? Would you feed it to your family?
I was told this is related to a commercial deer operation. Is that true or was the guy who said that thinking of another area?
The liability is too great for the agency to ignore it. Until they do "something" the controls in that area will never go away. Make an effort to depopulate Slate Creek, or wherever the concentration appears to be, and then you can move on. Until then, it will always have that stigma.
I was told this is related to a commercial deer operation. Is that true or was the guy who said that thinking of another area?
The liability is too great for the agency to ignore it. Until they do "something" the controls in that area will never go away. Make an effort to depopulate Slate Creek, or wherever the concentration appears to be, and then you can move on. Until then, it will always have that stigma.
andrew12gauge
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2 completely different scenarios, we are talking about deer in 1 specific drainage testing positive.
This would be akin to a quarantine of the entire country of China to keep COVID from ever leaving the borders, vs allowing infected people to return back to the states and then telling everybody to shelter in place.
Kill 1 drainage off or kill off the deer population in the entirety of the state, because if CWD is detected in another unit that will be IDFG’s plan
customweld
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Slate Creek is a enormous drainage. Fish and Game said they had one positive hit in Nut Basin which is only a ridge away from Allison Creek. 10 Miles above Riggins. Since it lives in the dirt, the first roving whitetail will carry it down the Florence Basin.
Angry Chair
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No, because CWD already exists in several neighboring states, and it almost certainly exists in Idaho in units outside 14 & 15. It just hasn't been detected. This is a completely unnecessary measure and has already grown far more drastic than would have been thought a year ago. Who knows how much further IDFG will take it.
OLDHORNHUNTER
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Exactly takes 2 to 4 weeks at best , there were hunters getting warning citations for not stopping at the check stations last year !! I know several guys that said there were NO check stations when they were there hunting !!
Can anyone out there prove that CWD kills entire deer herds? There's areas in North America with 40 percent infection rates..Buffalo Co Wisconsin is one. Still a well known trophy destination. Canada has high rates.Still killing a lot deer up there. My point is, even the so called experts don't know WTF to do. One of the so called tools is agency removal. And particularly of older aged male animals. It's where we're at in Idaho now. I call BS! Our government did real good with Covid, what the hell makes us think they can fix CWD? Hi, we're from the government, we're here to help!.
idahohuntr
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I don't oppose the targeted reduction in 14/slate cr. I think given the lack of detection elsewhere - keeping densities as low as possible is warranted. If/as it spreads across Idaho - I likely would not support efforts to reduce populations on a region/statewide basis.
Arrowelk
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CWD is 100% fatal. In captive deer where they are forced to mingle it is 100% spread. Obviously in the wild they are not forced to mingle, and the fewer animals on the winter range the less mingling and less spreading will occur. I fully support wiping out slate creek drainage and keeping it wiped out of deer for the foreseeable future.
Once or if the genie is really out of the bottle then its prolly time to reconsider a long term strategy. Right now it is likely the best and I suppose only option to try and contain it.
None of you guys that are pissed about this have presented any real options to address the issue. What would you guys do?
PRCnut
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Ok so kill off 200+ mule deer and 250+ whitetail deer this year and then what? Turn around and do it all over again every year when other deer cross the river or other state boundaries?? Deer are going to continue to migrate around from elsewhere unless every state kills all the deer? Where does it end? My thoughts are the strong will survive.
CWD has been around for years! I feel it’s all a money grab for federal funds just like the wolf introductions and the big picture of getting rid of hunting and being able to survive without the government! Just my 2 cents.
CWD has been around for years! I feel it’s all a money grab for federal funds just like the wolf introductions and the big picture of getting rid of hunting and being able to survive without the government! Just my 2 cents.
Angry Chair
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Evidently, it doesn't exist in an area until it is detected.
With this kill-off being IDFG's reaction to positive test results, I think I'll stop having my deer tested. I don't want IDFG to go to the units I hunt and do this.
customweld
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There is an elk ranch just south of there. Just sayin. If it is present in the dirt as reported then hell yes it will show up again.
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andrew12gauge
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This is what I’m saying, right now we have a fairly concentrated area where all of the positive CWD tests have come from, what if Idaho can be the 1st state to eradicate it
If it spreads beyond a single drainage then we can start worrying about it if IDFG tries to eliminate entire herds, but I won’t shed a tear over 1 drainage being emptied of deer
Horsecorn
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I think it’s all bullshet. So you’re telling me 200 years ago when deer got cwd the Indians killed all the deer around to keep it from spreading. wake the hell up boys. It’s been around for centuries and it’s just what happens to some deer that get it. Thank god you boys weren’t over the Covid scare, you would have shot us all off. its just like Covid (the flu) your not going to stop it.
idahohuntr
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I don't have any hope this will eradicate or stop CWD spread...but I do think it could give us more years of additional time before it shows up elsewhere.This is what I’m saying, right now we have a fairly concentrated area where all of the positive CWD tests have come from, what if Idaho can be the 1st state to eradicate it
PRCnut
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New study just released, great read and just as I thought the strong will survive!!
www.bowhuntingmag.com
Chronic Wasting Disease: The Latest Research - Petersen's Bowhunting
New findings offer hope for the future with CWD.
www.bowhuntingmag.com
Funny the state of Idaho never had cwd until they tested for it, they never tested for it because they did not want to know about it but then the fed says here some funds if you got cwd and there goes the idaho fish and game doing tests..
I don't doubt there is a bigger plan for the fed!!
Maybe the Wolf is involved???
I don't doubt there is a bigger plan for the fed!!
Maybe the Wolf is involved???
andrew12gauge
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They have actually had testing going on since like 2016, they just didn’t highly publicize it. Focus areas every year were on border units, I had a couple of animals tested over the years, because I happened to be hunting units they wanted samples from those years, and why not be informed if I can do it easily and for free
customweld
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Yep, they were testing border units when they got the chance. No one expected it to come out of left field , on the other side of the state. 442 animals were wiped out in 14 and 18. Both have been managed as mature muley units for decades. It's a GD kick in the nuts.
The technology and science of managing CWD just isn’t mature enough at this point to attempt 100% removal. Colorado has tried this in numerous areas and it always returns. Until they have a test which can instantly analyze an animal without killing it we will never be able to manage the disease. CWD is not 100% fatal. Several studies have shown some deer do not contract it and seem immune with a natural immunity genetic marker much like some African people were resistant to HIV. If you cull and kill off deer which have that natural immunity you are actually making it worse and prolonging the natural immunity from happening. Best thing to do at this point is spend more money on research and getting an accurate non-lethal test kit.
Many studies, one recently from Wisconsin. University of Wisconsin-Madison researcher Stacie Robinson and her colleagues looked at tissue samples of harvested deer collected for six years in the core CWD area to identify a set of genes (genotype) that appear to make some whitetails genetically resistant to CWD. Statistical modeling showed that deer with a particular genotype were four times less likely to contract CWD, and if they did become infected, they lived 49 longer (8.2 months) than deer without the genotype.
Robinson and her colleagues estimate that about 41 percent of all deer in the original CWD core area have CWD-resistant genes, which they will pass on to offspring. If natural selection follows its normal progression, deer that are CWD-resistant should become dominant in a few hundred years. The implications for CWD management are enormous. Those who still advocate harvesting large numbers of deer to try to eradicate CWD and/or for CWD testing will undoubtedly take out CWD-resistant deer from the wild, slowing the process of natural selection. In the end, it’s probably best to leave CWD management to Mother Nature. https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/...genetically-resistant-chronic-wasting-disease
boise
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read the paper you quoted “emerging prion disease drives host selection in a wildlife population “ not Qualified to quote any of those findings either way! “Bayesian modeling “ if one is four time more likely to contract something, is the other 4x less likely? When something comes out I pay attention to it. I think if CWD showed up on border like F&G was expecting the response would have been much different. I agree with the approach because I don’t believe CWD has been in Idaho for 100s of years. I think it showed up in slate creek because it was brought there. Will see how this plays out. I find it hard to have a concrete approach when they can’t test live animals. Natural selection and Mother Nature are being tested by the human race. I think the F&G looked at data and made a decision to try to address the problem in that specific area. Will see
It seems fairly straight forward how CWD has naturally progressed and spread into Idaho. The map shows an ever expanding swath across Central Idaho coming from the East. It will only get worse. Large scale killings and eradication have been tried and always resulted in failure in any state that tried it.
There are no Game farms in the Slate Creek area I am aware of. Name one which has been found to have CWD then maybe you’d have a point. Until then I’ll stick with what we do KNOW about where CWD has spread into Idaho. Fish and Game regularly tests the few ELK only farms in extreme Eastern Idaho and their fencing. I do know a few wild elk were killed who had entered inside a perimeter Game Farm fence but none of that herd ever tested positive for CWD and all the wild elk were killed on site.
customweld
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There isn't any in Slate Creek, but there is an elk farm above Shorts Bar on the Salmon. Just sayin.
Have they ever failed any CWD testing by Idaho Fish and Game? Seems extreme to kill off all the deer because an ELK Game farm is located 30 miles away and regularly passes their certification and accrediting tests. Just sayin.
boise
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CWD is on WY and MT boarder, how does it show up in slate cr? Is there a swath of cwd across the the gospel hump, selway, and frank church? If it wasn’t a game farm, was it an infected carcass, a ranch illegally bring in a deer to add genetics to their property? I don’t see the natural progression. I don’t have the answers to these questions either does F&G and that’s why they are taking the approach they are. I’m not the only one asking
customweld
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It's 15 miles. How many CWD tests have they submitted?
To date no game farm has tested positive for CWD in Idaho. https://www.usgs.gov/centers/nwhc/science/expanding-distribution-chronic-wasting-disease
BGnight
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If it's anything like HIV then it's a scam. AZT killed more "aids" patients than actual "aids". I'm telling you, ANYTHING the gov't does to "slow the spread" of CWD will make it worse. Leaving it alone is literally the best course of action. (besides outlawing game farms but that won't happen lol).
boise
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The gray shaded areas aren’t full of CWD!, the point I was making is there’s no way nose to nose contacted spread from Montana to Slate Creek. I agree there is so much that is unknown about how this spreads. Wisconsin kills more deer with cars than most western states do with guns. Eradicate in those high densities seems like a losing proposition. Killing all the deer in one isolated drainage in winter seems like a viable attempt to slow/stop a spread. Again time will tell.
customweld
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I talked to the IFG biologist in McCall last winter and the at that point, the farthest east hit was in Nut Basin. It will be in Allison Creek and up the main river this fall. More than likely, it will start its march in the SF of the Clearwater as well.
boise
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Hopefully they can speed up the testing turnaround. It was a full month in December when we got results last fall. I had Colorado deer tested in 2005, 3 days to get results. deer and elk up salmon river are pretty spread out in that big country.
customweld
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Have you heard if IFG is going to set up their own lab for testing? As of now, I believe they are sending samples down to Co for analysis.
The animals are pretty spread out during summer and fall, but the winter herd congregations are pretty strong. Between Nov of '21 to Nov '22 it made a roughly 8 mile gain. That also included a fairly broad hunt in Dec of '21. I have little hope that what they did in February is going to slow anything down. If one of those deer infected in Nut Basin decided to drop into Allison basin for the winter, did we gain anything?
The shaded areas have confirmed cases. The deer migrate and are mobile and it’s nearly a continuous path from East moving West. Many low density deer areas in Colorado failed total eradication as Im sure this wasted attempt will also Fail in Idaho.
customweld
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Between that extra exploratory hunt in '21, the 100 percent increase in antlered muley tags, extra muley does, whitetail does and extra whitetail antlered tags, and the 400 plus animals taken out in February, what the hell is left?! The 200 head that winter upriver of Riggins? Like I said before, what a kick in the nuts.
Weiserbucks
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I'm also skeptical of the quality and sincerity of the testing. I killed a buck in Colorado a few years ago that was in a mandatory CWD testing unit. Never received any test results and the people I got on the phone didn't sound like they cared one way or another.
andrew12gauge
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It’s literally a county map, as of now there has only been one drainage in that county where they’ve had animals test positive, none in any other basin. While it is plausible it has spread across the gospel hump I don’t know how when not a single animal in the unit to the east where it has come from has tested positive. Unit 14 is where the CWD is and unit 15 to the east has mandatory testing so if it were there you would think it would’ve been caught by now
customweld
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It moved 8 miles to the east in a year. It was found in Nut Basin, although that still drains into Slate Creek, it’s only a ridge away from being in Allison Creek to the southeast and a ridge from being in the SF of the Clearwater to the northeast. IFG hasn’t reported on how many of the 400 plus they shot were in 18.
IDFG designated those areas as CWD designated areas. If you don’t like it, argue with them. The point of the map is a logical progression of CWD moving from infected areas to the East and then slowly progressing Westward. If I were in Oregon and Washington I’d be worried at this point as highly likely within a few years they will have positive units. Attempting to eradicate CWD by annihilation has never worked. Ask Colorado what they think of that strategy.https://www.kivitv.com/news/outdoors/idfg-commission-designates-cwd-management-zones-in-unit-14-and-15
andrew12gauge
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I understand that IDFG designated it as a CWD zone, what I am saying is that as of now they haven’t had a single deer test positive for CWD in unit 15, only in 1 drainage in unit 14. While I agree that spreading from Montana seems the most likely culprit it also doesn’t make sense how it could spread from the east and only end up in 1 drainage that far away from the border.
If you go back and watch the progression of CWD in Colorado it was sporadic at first and would appear in one drainage then show up 60 miles away in a completely distinct drainage. Some of it may have been around for awhile and they just hadn’t tested enough in those early days. My bet would be those areas between Montana and western Idaho have a few more cases that haven’t been detected. In Wyoming CWD was widespread in the elk herd in Albany County but not very prevalent anywhere else then 2 years ago it showed up in the Jackson elk Refuge clear across the state. Now we know several other units in between have positive CWD cases. The testing just isn’t widespread enough yet. What we do know is attempts at complete annihilation have never worked in any state that have tried that approach and Colorado doesn’t even attempt it anymore. Wyoming has looked at a higher harvest on mature bucks as one strategy. If you cull and kill off deer which have that natural immunity to CWD you are actually making it worse and prolonging the natural immunity from spreading through the population.
Arrowelk
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No other state got on it as fast as Idaho either. My understanding was that it was detected for at least 5 years before they tried containment. They all fiddled around and the cat got out of the bag so to speak. If this is even moderately effective then it is worth it. Sure it sucks for that unit and all the guys that have their honey hole in that area. Obviously if this effort is not effective and it gets out of 14, then a different approach is needed.
as far as how it got there in the first place.... those critters don't really migrate east to west along the Salmon River, they surly migrate up and down elevational. but its not like they all head down the canyon in the winter. I am much more on the lines that it was brought there one way or another. Which is also why i supported the vigorous containment efforts this spring. I will also support them going forward if they can show its slowing the spread or confining it to that area.
as far as how it got there in the first place.... those critters don't really migrate east to west along the Salmon River, they surly migrate up and down elevational. but its not like they all head down the canyon in the winter. I am much more on the lines that it was brought there one way or another. Which is also why i supported the vigorous containment efforts this spring. I will also support them going forward if they can show its slowing the spread or confining it to that area.
I will never support a bunch of Government dip shits baiting and killing deer herds (agency removal) in the name of a disease that they really know nothing about. Oh, they will tell you it's 100% fatal, blah, blah,blah.Agency removal is always fatal too.Just remember what the government experts told you about Covid. .
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