Legislation

Ok where does the other 36% of revenue come from?
Lets not also forget about the WWNRT, WGBLC, Commission Licenses, NGO support that also funds wildlife in Wyoming. There's more to it than just the GF budget, and its residents either funding a lions share of those, or giving up our opportunity at additional tags to fund the Commission and Governors tag programs.

Plus, a vast majority of the volunteer work for access, pulling fences, sign installation, lobbying the legislature, attending meetings, etc. etc. etc. is nearly ALL done by Wyoming Residents here. Volunteer labor for these causes is valued at $26/hour...for the record.

NR's paying higher fees is getting off pretty cheap in comparison to what R's do for wildlife, access, habitat, hunting, and fishing with their time, treasure, and talent.
 
About license fees I pay as a NR? No. If I don't think its worth it, I just don't apply (like NM). I don't expect NM to lower the NR price to suit what I find a good ROI.

So, I just don't apply there like I used to. No big deal...and you'll not find me complaining about it.
Maybe another Buzz?

I applied for New Mexico for elk, deer, pronghorn, sheep and oryx for many years.

After I drew oryx, I bailed and will never apply there again until the residents get a handle on outfitter and landowners.

The most corrupt state when it comes to allocation of wildlife resources in the West, hands down.


No big deal, I understand, I complained about New Mexico as well! I know this is not apples to apples comparison, but moving the goalposts on the people providing the majority of the funding stinks for those people because they don't have a voice. Increasing the price of tags happens, understand, but doubling their time to draw tags after they have paid the bills.....you don't want us to complain? Just sit there and say thank you? That is all the DIY Non-resident can do, thank you for what you do for game and DIY hunters in Wyoming. I appreciate it.
 
Maybe another Buzz?

I applied for New Mexico for elk, deer, pronghorn, sheep and oryx for many years.

After I drew oryx, I bailed and will never apply there again until the residents get a handle on outfitter and landowners.

The most corrupt state when it comes to allocation of wildlife resources in the West, hands down.


No big deal, I understand, I complained about New Mexico as well! I know this is not apples to apples comparison, but moving the goalposts on the people providing the majority of the funding stinks for those people because they don't have a voice. Increasing the price of tags happens, understand, but doubling their time to draw tags after they have paid the bills.....you don't want us to complain? Just sit there and say thank you? That is all the DIY Non-resident can do, thank you for what you do for game and DIY hunters in Wyoming. I appreciate it.
Ok 1) you must have a lot of time on your hands to go to another forum and find an old post made by BuzzH. Creepy and stalkerish

2). I don’t see where he’s complaining about tag prices in his post. Please read where he said he’s never complained about tag prices. He never said he didn’t complain about allocation....
 
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Dual purpose if you want spoon fed!!!
 
Maybe another Buzz?

I applied for New Mexico for elk, deer, pronghorn, sheep and oryx for many years.

After I drew oryx, I bailed and will never apply there again until the residents get a handle on outfitter and landowners.

The most corrupt state when it comes to allocation of wildlife resources in the West, hands down.


No big deal, I understand, I complained about New Mexico as well! I know this is not apples to apples comparison, but moving the goalposts on the people providing the majority of the funding stinks for those people because they don't have a voice. Increasing the price of tags happens, understand, but doubling their time to draw tags after they have paid the bills.....you don't want us to complain? Just sit there and say thank you? That is all the DIY Non-resident can do, thank you for what you do for game and DIY hunters in Wyoming. I appreciate it.
I was not complaining about the R/NR tag splits...what I didnt like about NM is the landowner (people with very small properties, as in 5 acres or less, getting transferable unit wide tags, and outfitters getting a set-aside) and the outfitter sponsored tags.

I have no problem with non-transferable LO tags when the acreage is significant enough and wildlife use is enough, for landowners to qualify.

I'm 100% opposed to outfitter set asides, just corporate welfare in its purest form, and outfitters put ZERO money into GF agency management.

The prices in NM were about on line with other states I apply in, it was nothing to do with R/NR splits or price why I quit applying there, it was tag give-away programs.
 
You'll have to spell things out a little better than that. What is PR, DJ, and other?
You have got to be kidding me...you hunt, pretend to care about conservation, and don't know what PR/DJ are? Show's how much you really understand or care about wildlife. HINT: PR has been around since 1937.

Unbelievable....

I'm not your secretary...you live in the information age, and that thing you're typing on, that's a computer, hooked to the internet. You know, the most powerful source of information the world has ever seen.

Its not like you have to dig through encyclopedia Britannica to find your answers...good grief.
 
I did a little more digging and found out a bunch more info about the legislation that wasn't in the initial post.

#1) the commission shall reserve at least thirty percent (30%) of those licenses for nonresident hunters who are hunting with a licensed outfitter.

#2)
The Special Draw license split would be discontinued.

#3) This bill actually has the potential to take away regulative authority and remove the language around the 7,250 guaranteed nonresident elk numbers in Statute. This is not just a decrease in limited quota, but all nonresident licenses!

#4) Under the proposed bill, Wyoming will reserve at least 90% of big game, bison and grizzly bear licenses to resident hunters.
  • This will drastically cut tag numbers! Most species will see greater than a 50% cut in nonresident tags.


WHAT CAN YOU DO?

Contact these five Senators who are on the Travel, Recreation, Wildlife and Cultural Resources Committee. These people directly have the power to impact hunting in Wyoming.

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Here's the link: https://www.gohunt.com/read/INSIDER/new-bill-will-severely-impact-nonresident-hunters-in-wyoming
 
I did a little more digging and found out a bunch more info about the legislation that wasn't in the initial post.

#1) the commission shall reserve at least thirty percent (30%) of those licenses for nonresident hunters who are hunting with a licensed outfitter.

#2)
The Special Draw license split would be discontinued.

#3) This bill actually has the potential to take away regulative authority and remove the language around the 7,250 guaranteed nonresident elk numbers in Statute. This is not just a decrease in limited quota, but all nonresident licenses!

#4) Under the proposed bill, Wyoming will reserve at least 90% of big game, bison and grizzly bear licenses to resident hunters.
  • This will drastically cut tag numbers! Most species will see greater than a 50% cut in nonresident tags.


WHAT CAN YOU DO?

Contact these five Senators who are on the Travel, Recreation, Wildlife and Cultural Resources Committee. These people directly have the power to impact hunting in Wyoming.

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Here's the link: https://www.gohunt.com/read/INSIDER/new-bill-will-severely-impact-nonresident-hunters-in-wyoming
Hilarious...and I wonder why DJ/PR is a struggle for you...laffin'.

I'm embarrassed for you.

Wow, just WOW!
 
Ok 1) you must have a lot of time on your hands to go to another forum and find an old post made by BuzzH. Creepy and stalkerish

2). I don’t see where he’s complaining about tag prices in his post. Please read where he said he’s never complained about tag prices. He never said he didn’t complain about allocation....
SS, I did it on my phone in less than 1 minute. If things are taken from someone, they usually complain, there is nothing wrong with that, especially when they have paid for the majority of the funding

There is nothing wrong with WY residents wanting a bigger percentage of the tags. Why wouldn't you want 100%? Probably because the residents don't want to pay for 100% of the costs, correct? You want someone else to pay for managing your wildlife, correct? That is all fine and dandy if there is a good ROI for the person paying, once that doesn't make sense then they will refuse to pay. Maybe we are no where near that threshold, but do you really just want the wealthy to be able to hunt Wyoming?
 
Buzz laugh all you want! Like usual your true colors are coming out. If you don’t want to explain how pr/dj are 24% of the total budget.
 
Buzz laugh all you want! Like usual your true colors are coming out. If you don’t want to explain how pr/dj are 24% of the total budget.
I'll give you a hint: it happens every time you go to a sporting goods store.
 
SS, I did it on my phone in less than 1 minute. If things are taken from someone, they usually complain, there is nothing wrong with that, especially when they have paid for the majority of the funding

There is nothing wrong with WY residents wanting a bigger percentage of the tags. Why wouldn't you want 100%? Probably because the residents don't want to pay for 100% of the costs, correct? You want someone else to pay for managing your wildlife, correct? That is all fine and dandy if there is a good ROI for the person paying, once that doesn't make sense then they will refuse to pay. Maybe we are no where near that threshold, but do you really just want the wealthy to be able to hunt Wyoming?
I don't believe R's are advocating for 100% of the tags, only what you might call the "industry standard", or what Wyoming residents are subjected to in states where they apply as NR's. For most states, that's usually 10%, OR LESS, of the available LQ tags.

I'm fine with the region deer tag quotas, the 7250 full price NR elk tags.

Most here are NOT in favor of giving 16% of their LQ elk tags to NR, 20% of their LQ pronghorn tags, 20% of their moose permits, 20% of their LQ deer tags, 25% of their sheep tags.

Those are wayyyy outside the allocations of surrounding states, and was put into effect when there were a chitload more tags available, way fewer resident interest, lower over-all resident population, etc.

Times have changed, and these allocations need to be adjusted.
 
PR/DJ is federal funding and not 100% sure how that would be calculated as far as trying to breakdown resident vs non resident contribution. Also not sure how they count license sales and how that factors into recieving federal funding. I'm sure there is a way Wyoming could play with numbers (like Colorado did) and potentially get more.

Also information in post 108 is from last years bill that was brought up. So all of that information is out of date and the contact information is different.

In reading the bill, I did find it amusing that they would raise the Grizzly license price when there is yet to have a grizzly hunt.
 
I was not complaining about the R/NR tag splits...what I didnt like about NM is the landowner (people with very small properties, as in 5 acres or less, getting transferable unit wide tags, and outfitters getting a set-aside) and the outfitter sponsored tags.

I have no problem with non-transferable LO tags when the acreage is significant enough and wildlife use is enough, for landowners to qualify.

I'm 100% opposed to outfitter set asides, just corporate welfare in its purest form, and outfitters put ZERO money into GF agency management.

The prices in NM were about on line with other states I apply in, it was nothing to do with R/NR splits or price why I quit applying there, it was tag give-away programs.
Hmmm. How about 85/15 instead of 90/10?

"Once those two tag give-aways are done away with, just have a 90-10 split on NR and R tags for sheep, oryx, and ibex. For elk, deer, and antelope go with an 85-15 split for R and NR."


I agree with most everything you are stating Buzz in that post (which took 30 seconds to find on a google search SlightlySober), especially the transferable landowner tags, but it seems like you are somewhat complaining about the R/NR tag splits?

Scrolling down a bit further, I find kind of ironic, is another post from a Buzz guy there that says he fought for non-residents in Wyoming on the 90/10 split in 2014 and said it was not fair to the DIY Non-res to move the goalpost. Thoughts?

"I fought that bill in Wyoming and will continue to fight for NR's in Wyoming. These constant shifting of goal posts is not fair to anyone but a handful of Residents each year as a "best" case.

Its time for Resident hunters of each state to take off the blinders and think about the ramifications that their greed is having on long term applicants and their DIY NR counterparts. Its pretty tough for me to ask for support from NR's of Wyoming on important wildlife issues that happen here, then do nothing when their opportunities are being threatened via Resident greed.

I wont sell out DIY NR hunters to improve my odds as a Resident...wont do it."
 
I did a little more digging and found out a bunch more info about the legislation that wasn't in the initial post.

#1) the commission shall reserve at least thirty percent (30%) of those licenses for nonresident hunters who are hunting with a licensed outfitter.

#2)
The Special Draw license split would be discontinued.

#3) This bill actually has the potential to take away regulative authority and remove the language around the 7,250 guaranteed nonresident elk numbers in Statute. This is not just a decrease in limited quota, but all nonresident licenses!

#4) Under the proposed bill, Wyoming will reserve at least 90% of big game, bison and grizzly bear licenses to resident hunters.
  • This will drastically cut tag numbers! Most species will see greater than a 50% cut in nonresident tags.


WHAT CAN YOU DO?

Contact these five Senators who are on the Travel, Recreation, Wildlife and Cultural Resources Committee. These people directly have the power to impact hunting in Wyoming.

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Here's the link: https://www.gohunt.com/read/INSIDER/new-bill-will-severely-impact-nonresident-hunters-in-wyoming
Nice research! By all means I encourage everyone to contact Liisa Anselmi Dalton and express your outrage. I'm sure she will give a ****! Although you may need to use a different email address.

Either you are just blatantly lying to people or you suck at research. Which one is correct? Both?
 
Nice research! By all means I encourage everyone to contact Liisa Anselmi Dalton and express your outrage. I'm sure she will give a ****! Although you may need to use a different email address.

Either you are just blatantly lying to people or you suck at research. Which one is correct? Both?
He is off by 1 year, that language was in last year's bill. So I would say that's a no to blatant. I think it is a valid discussion as that was put in there last year to appease WYOGA and something similar could happen in the future which goes against everything you all and Buzz stand for on outfitter welfare.

So to get 90/10 passed, would you all support 30% of the 10% going to an outfitter pool?
 
He is off by 1 year, that language was in last year's bill. So I would say that's a no to blatant. I think it is a valid discussion as that was put in there last year to appease WYOGA and something similar could happen in the future which goes against everything you all and Buzz stand for on outfitter welfare.

So to get 90/10 passed, would you all support 30% of the 10% going to an outfitter pool?
No
 
Hmmm. How about 85/15 instead of 90/10?

"Once those two tag give-aways are done away with, just have a 90-10 split on NR and R tags for sheep, oryx, and ibex. For elk, deer, and antelope go with an 85-15 split for R and NR."


I agree with most everything you are stating Buzz in that post (which took 30 seconds to find on a google search SlightlySober), especially the transferable landowner tags, but it seems like you are somewhat complaining about the R/NR tag splits?

Scrolling down a bit further, I find kind of ironic, is another post from a Buzz guy there that says he fought for non-residents in Wyoming on the 90/10 split in 2014 and said it was not fair to the DIY Non-res to move the goalpost. Thoughts?

"I fought that bill in Wyoming and will continue to fight for NR's in Wyoming. These constant shifting of goal posts is not fair to anyone but a handful of Residents each year as a "best" case.

Its time for Resident hunters of each state to take off the blinders and think about the ramifications that their greed is having on long term applicants and their DIY NR counterparts. Its pretty tough for me to ask for support from NR's of Wyoming on important wildlife issues that happen here, then do nothing when their opportunities are being threatened via Resident greed.

I wont sell out DIY NR hunters to improve my odds as a Resident...wont do it."
Look, you can keep up with the out of context, "gotcha" BS from 2014 all you want.

The context of the NM discussion was the following:

New Mexico moved the goalpost AFTER the application deadline for sheep, ibex, and oryx. There was no question R's were getting a screw job with some years more than 50% of their sheep tags going to NR's. That needed to change, and did. I would have been fine with NM refunding all the application fee's they took from NR's, with interest, after they did the bait and switch. The 85/15 split on DEA in New Mexico I recommended would have increased significantly the number of tags for all species to R and NR hunters. This was under the assumption that NM would revamp their landowner and outfitter pools.

Considering the mess that NM still is, in regard to LO and Outfitter pools, I bailed on applying there. Tag fees are fine.

As to Wyoming, yes, I did oppose the bill in 2014, for a couple reasons. The main reason being there was not a way to compensate the Wyoming Game and Fish for lost revenue from 90/10. That needed to be written into the bill, and has been since. Secondly, in 2014, the interest in hunting in the West was about 25-30% less than now. Meaning, that NR draw odds across the West were much better then, than now. Same with Resident draw odds. However, in the last 7-8 years, draw odds for Residents of Wyoming that apply in other states has tanked...big-time. Meaning, that Wyoming Residents should be afforded better draw odds here. Also, the amount of Residents applying for tags in Wyoming has increased substantially as well for sheep, moose, goat, bison, elk, deer, pronghorn. Also, in the case of nearly all species across the board, the number of licenses issued has decreased as well...moose, sheep, deer, and even pronghorn.

As such, with increased Resident demand, fewer available tags, and decreased draw odds in other States, it only makes one thing, and that is sense for Residents to receive a higher allocation of LQ tags.

Things change, we don't live in a vacuum and I'm afforded the right to change my mind based on current conditions. Things have changed substantially since 2014...if only obviously.
 
He is off by 1 year, that language was in last year's bill. So I would say that's a no to blatant. I think it is a valid discussion as that was put in there last year to appease WYOGA and something similar could happen in the future which goes against everything you all and Buzz stand for on outfitter welfare.

So to get 90/10 passed, would you all support 30% of the 10% going to an outfitter pool?
Nope, no outfitter set asides and no transferable landowner tags either.

For the record, both JM77 and I told the guy that proposed the bill last year, it was DOA because of the outfitter set aside.
 
Things change, we don't live in a vacuum and I'm afforded the right to change my mind based on current conditions. Things have changed substantially since 2014...if only obviously.
So what you said in 2014 was a lie? Or I guess we can call it a "sell out" maybe, is "sell-out" the proper terminology to use here? I will just assume it as you said that is what it would be.

So you are okay with "selling out" the non-resident DIY hunters who have filled the coffers of WY G&F for decades on the pretense that their spending 100s to 1000s of dollars per year would increase their likelihood of drawing a tag based on the tag split for 15 - 25 years. You do understand that people have 15 - 25 points and are on the verge of drawing that tag they have been waiting on within the next decade, which will become two decades, hence "moving the goalposts"?

Should these non-residents be given a refund for that investment if they so choose a refund?

Everyone wants their tags and everyone wants their money at the same time, eventually those receiving the tags will have to pay significantly more.


"I fought that bill in Wyoming and will continue to fight for NR's in Wyoming. These constant shifting of goal posts is not fair to anyone but a handful of Residents each year as a "best" case.

Its time for Resident hunters of each state to take off the blinders and think about the ramifications that their greed is having on long term applicants and their DIY NR counterparts. Its pretty tough for me to ask for support from NR's of Wyoming on important wildlife issues that happen here, then do nothing when their opportunities are being threatened via Resident greed.

I wont sell out DIY NR hunters to improve my odds as a Resident...wont do it." Buzz - 2014
 
As to Wyoming, yes, I did oppose the bill in 2014, for a couple reasons. The main reason being there was not a way to compensate the Wyoming Game and Fish for lost revenue from 90/10. That needed to be written into the bill, and has been since.
I thought we had a post that founder locked where you said there was not going to be a reduction in revenue due to 90/10? Now there is going to be a reduction? Were you wrong before or did someone else do the math like we all did on that post and come up with a significant reduction in revenue by cutting LQ tags by 50%? And the solution is to raise the fees by 25 - 50%, only on non-residents, residents just pay $2 to apply for a tag per species?

So the non-residents get half the number of tags and pay twice as much. So I ask the question, if this is all such a big deal to move non-residents from 20 to 10%, why not just make it 0%? Why? Why not go all the way?
 
I thought we had a post that founder locked where you said there was not going to be a reduction in revenue due to 90/10? Now there is going to be a reduction? Were you wrong before or did someone else do the math like we all did on that post and come up with a significant reduction in revenue by cutting LQ tags by 50%? And the solution is to raise the fees by 25 - 50%, only on non-residents, residents just pay $2 to apply for a tag per species?

So the non-residents get half the number of tags and pay twice as much. So I ask the question, if this is all such a big deal to move non-residents from 20 to 10%, why not just make it 0%? Why? Why not go all the way?
Read the fiscal note...8 million more in revenue.
 
So what you said in 2014 was a lie? Or I guess we can call it a "sell out" maybe, is "sell-out" the proper terminology to use here? I will just assume it as you said that is what it would be.

So you are okay with "selling out" the non-resident DIY hunters who have filled the coffers of WY G&F for decades on the pretense that their spending 100s to 1000s of dollars per year would increase their likelihood of drawing a tag based on the tag split for 15 - 25 years. You do understand that people have 15 - 25 points and are on the verge of drawing that tag they have been waiting on within the next decade, which will become two decades, hence "moving the goalposts"?

Should these non-residents be given a refund for that investment if they so choose a refund?

Everyone wants their tags and everyone wants their money at the same time, eventually those receiving the tags will have to pay significantly more.


"I fought that bill in Wyoming and will continue to fight for NR's in Wyoming. These constant shifting of goal posts is not fair to anyone but a handful of Residents each year as a "best" case.

Its time for Resident hunters of each state to take off the blinders and think about the ramifications that their greed is having on long term applicants and their DIY NR counterparts. Its pretty tough for me to ask for support from NR's of Wyoming on important wildlife issues that happen here, then do nothing when their opportunities are being threatened via Resident greed.

I wont sell out DIY NR hunters to improve my odds as a Resident...wont do it." Buzz - 2014
Are you really that dense?

No, in 2014 there were problems with the bill, mainly the funding portion.

In 2014, there were not nearly the number of residents competing for tags, more opportunity, more licenses issued, and my odds of hunting in another State were much better.

Those are all not true now....things change, so does how I advocate.

It's why laws continue to change all the time...its not 1950 anymore, or 1960...jump into 2021 with the rest of the world.
 
BuzzH is a walking contradiction in this thread. First he says that he stopped applying in NM due to the cost/ROI. Later he said that he quit applying in NM due to the tag give away program and it had nothing to due with price.

He also said that he never complains about other States’ tag allocation systems, only to have Nripepi provide evidence to the contrary.

BuzzH you need to get your story straight. You must be a lawyer. Am I right?
 
Read the fiscal note...8 million more in revenue.
I saw that, not 100% sure how that is calculated. Below is directly from the fiscal impact analysis:

Assumptions:
The average number of nonresident big game licenses, nonresident bison licenses, wild turkey licenses, resident preference points, and applications will remain the same resulting in an estimated annual revenue increase of $8,180,926.

They are cutting non resident big game tags so I dont understand how they can to this conclusion.
 
I saw that, not 100% sure how that is calculated. Below is directly from the fiscal impact analysis:

Assumptions:
The average number of nonresident big game licenses, nonresident bison licenses, wild turkey licenses, resident preference points, and applications will remain the same resulting in an estimated annual revenue increase of $8,180,926.

They are cutting non resident big game tags so I dont understand how they can to this conclusion.
Skinny version is because of the way WY allocates licenses through general and LQ is that there won’t be a huge reduction in NR license sales with the exception of deer. Even with the loss of some licenses the new overall price hikes equate to 8 million additional revenue.
 
BuzzH is a walking contradiction in this thread. First he says that he stopped applying in NM due to the cost/ROI. Later he said that he quit applying in NM due to the tag give away program and it had nothing to due with price.

He also said that he never complains about other States’ tag allocation systems, only to have Nripepi provide evidence to the contrary.

BuzzH you need to get your story straight. You must be a lawyer. Am I right?
I can choose to apply, or not apply for a State for any reason I want. New Mexico is not a state I put value in as a NR hunter for a variety of reasons, all of which are really none of your business or concern.

I used to apply there and drew an oryx on a party app with a good friend and my wife and I drew pronghorn on a party application once as well. Had good hunts on all the tags we drew. Better options exist for me now, so New Mexico is an easy pass.

May apply there again someday if something changes...may not too.
 
Skinny version is because of the way WY allocates licenses through general and LQ is that there won’t be a huge reduction in NR license sales with the exception of deer. Even with the loss of some licenses the new overall price hikes equate to 8 million additional revenue.
Thank you! I get what you are saying now.
 
Don’t get so sensitive Buzz. I was just calling you out on your BS. And you are right, what you do makes no difference to me. But you didn’t answer my question — are you a lawyer? You come off like a lawyer that was educated at a second tier law school.
 
Don’t get so sensitive Buzz. I was just calling you out on your BS. And you are right, what you do makes no difference to me. But you didn’t answer my question — are you a lawyer? You come off like a lawyer that was educated at a second tier law school.
Lets not make assumptions about career choices...because if we did, I'd say you come off as a high school drop-out.
 
As long as no additional tags are given to outfitters / landowners as part of 90/10 split legislation, it is very difficult not to support. I understand the frustration of NR building points and planning for a future hunt, but there is inherent risk in that game and this may be a reason to hunt when and where you can... in 10 years it could go to 95/5 or 100/0... you never know. Additionally, it sounds like almost the same number of NR will be crossing the border but to hunt general rather than LE. As far as in state revenue (if it came to that), Im guessing most WY residents who put in for coveted tags would pay an order of magnitude more if tag is drawn for increased odds... but the last part is an assumption.
 
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Additionally, it sounds like almost the same number of NR will be crossing the border but to hunt general rather than LE.

I think that is one of the assumptions, as well as application numbers staying the same. My guess is that they won't, but I dont know how big of an difference it will be and the impact.
 
My point exactly! NR hunters will still apply for the tags and pay the extra cost. The state could make the same amount of money, or possibly even more, while at the same time allowing less NR hunters the opportunity to hunt in Wyoming. It would decrease the amount of animals harvested and still provide the funds necessary to run the department.

The last thing I do is try to tell Utah, Arizona, Colorado, etc how to manage their NR hunters. That is their right and I can either deal with what they decide and continue to apply, or I can hit the road and remove myself. As a nonresident it is a privilege to get to hunt other states, not a right. So you have to take what is given to you by that particular state.

I do feel that much of Wyoming is over hunted, but I 10,000% believe the first step to limiting over hunting should be reducing NR hunters long before limiting residents. It won't fix everything but it can't hurt.


NR for Wyoming. But I agree. If a state sees tag cuts as necessary, either for long term issues, or short term like bad winters, the NR tags should be where they come from. The state should serve the interests of its citizenry first, before extending courtesy elsewhere.
 
If this passes the chance of me moving to Wyoming is much more certain. I'm ready to get the heck out of Washington state and I'm eligible to retire from my job in about 2 years and 2 months. We'll be taking a road trip through Wyoming in June so the wife and kids can see which towns they prefer. Idaho and South Dakota are also under consideration, but I like to hunt Wyoming every year and if they want to make that harder for me to do as a non resident, then it makes my decision that much easier.
 
Read the fiscal note...8 million more in revenue.
I read it. Do you remember the thread that Founder locked where you said Revenue wouldn't decrease if you went 90/10 and didn't change fees? Everyone told you that the only way that happens is if you increase non-resident fees or resident fees significantly. You fought with everyone on that thread saying you were right and we were all wrong. Kind of funny now when you see where this $8 million increase comes from, isn't it? It comes from increasing prices significantly, like almost double! What also is funny is the assumption on the bill that says: "The average number of nonresident big game licenses.......and applications will remain the same resulting in an estimated annual revenue increase of $8,180,926." No one can tell me how deer and antelope licenses are going to stay the same with respect to non-resident licenses sold, if demand is so high in Wyoming now, where are the 10% antelope licenses lost going to come from? No where if resident demand is high.

You are basically raising 60% of the previous regular licenses to the Special Fees to make up for the deficit, so you are going to price out many non-resident DIY hunters. Sure, many will still pay that like they did in the Special Draw, but I bet many will not for marginal and general areas and the ones that do will be the ones with more disposable income. You are basically making hunting in Wyoming as a non-resident for the rich, isn't that a bit against the mission of the BHA?
 
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Dear Sportsman,

Wyoming Senator Larry Hicks has filed Senate File 103, a 90/10 license allocation and fee increase bill that would be devastating to your ability to draw a Wyoming big game hunting license in the future.

We need your help to contact members of the Senate Travel, Recreation and Wildlife Committee as soon as possible to share your opposition to the bill and how it would impact your ability to hunt in Wyoming. The bill will be heard by the committee at 8 a.m. on Thursday, March 4, 2021.

Please keep your messages focused and specific to how this appalling bill will hurt your future plans to hunt in Wyoming. Please let the senators know that you have made a financial investment in preference points and license fees and remind the Senators of the positive economic impact nonresident hunters, like yourself, brings to Wyoming.

Thank you for taking the time to reach out to these Wyoming Legislators it is critical they hear from you and how a 50 percent reduction in licenses would affect your ability to hunt and Wyoming’s economy.

The Senators are listed below:

Chairwoman Affie Ellis (Cheyenne) [email protected]
Senator Mike Gierau (Jackson) [email protected]
Senator Tim Salazar (Dubois) [email protected]
Senator Bill Landen (Casper) [email protected]
Senator Wendy Schuler (Evantson) [email protected]


Sincerely,

Sy Gilliland, President
Wyoming Outfitters & Guides Association

PO Box 2650
Casper, WY 82602
[email protected]
wyoga.org
307.265.2376

Copyright © 2021 SNS Outfitter and Guides, All rights reserved.
Having Wyoming Preference Points

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Casper, WY 82602
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I think raising the prices for NR hunters in Wyoming is a great idea. I say do that and then cut back on NR tags and make the same amount of money (or probably more). Win, win for residents. The tag numbers need to be cut back, it's 100% best to start with Nonresidents. If you can make the same money and give out less tags to outsiders I'm all for it! Of course outfitters would hate that, but less NR hunters means less outfitters which in turn means more happy resident hunters. Like I said, It's a win win!

Californians are flooding into the state and that is what worries me the most. The population of Wyoming is quite small and it would only take a minimal amount of liberal idiots from California, Oregon or Washington to move here and completely run this state how they see fit. Not good for Wyoming and it's traditional way of living.
hahaha, what do you think is happening in Star Valley, Jackson, and the rest of Teton County?
 
I thought this was a good presentation by Hicks.

Committee meeting part 1, start at 54:


part 2

If you watch Part 2, 2 - 4 minute mark, Senator Hicks says....I am paraphrasing here....that if you took 40% of the cost of the non-resident special and 60% of the cost of the non-resident regular price and averaged them, that you would come up with the same amount of money. What? That is totally not true!!!! The suggested changes to license costs are significantly higher than the weighted average of those:

Regular Deer = 372
Special Deer = 677
60/40 avg. = 494
Proposed = 655

For Deer, the proposed is a 32.5% increase over the average

Elk regular = 690
Elk Special = 1283
60/40 avg. = 927
Proposed = 1100

For elk, the proposed increase is 18.5% over the average

Antelope Regular = 324
Antelope Special = 629
60/40 Avg. = 446
Proposed = 600

For Antelope, the proposed is a 34.5% increase over the average

Didn't Wyoming just increase these costs by 15-20% in 2018? So on top of that recent large increase, you need another 20 - 30% increase in tag costs and in the spreadsheet the number of tags stays the same. I am not an idiot, it just doesn't add up and I am sure many pushing for this know that as well.

The only way to make this proposal work is to "sell-out" the non-residents and have the rich non-residents pay for everything.

Talk about a bit convoluted (did you come up with this idea Buzz?), instead of taking the average price of all of the surrounding states Senator Hicks cherry-picked the average of the highest priced top 4 states which includes California (haha, anyone ever draw an antelope tag in California? why the heck is that included here). Just take the darn average like any sane person would do for $488. We can debate that, but this convoluted mess is just that.

I will get off of my high horse here. I understand that everyone (including residents) want more tags and I understand that no one wants to pay more money for those tags, unless by paying more money your odds of getting a tag go up. In this scenario, you pay significantly more and your odds go down significantly, a lose-lose for the DIY-Non-Residents.
 
He averaged other states tag/license costs to get to his numbers.
Nope, he averaged the 4 highest states because Wyoming is a top 4 antelope state. One of the top 4 states he averaged for antelope was California! Is California a Top 4 antelope state?
 
I'd put it in my top 3 behind AZ and NM which would put the cost at roughly $535, top spot for overall NR opportunity to hunt.
If it was me I'd have been a bit more conservative on the full price D/A and bumped the doe/fawn to $80-$100.
 
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Most of Wyoming’s funds are due to NRs so if they cut out NRs to the 90/10 rule their Dept of fish and wildlife will feel the financial impacts of less hunters and less revenue. Non residents play a majority part in funding F&W so it doesn’t make seen to cut NRs out. If they do raise their rates for NRs they will force NRs hunters to look at other more feasible and managed states for their hunting needs.
 
Most of Wyoming’s funds are due to NRs so if they cut out NRs to the 90/10 rule their Dept of fish and wildlife will feel the financial impacts of less hunters and less revenue. Non residents play a majority part in funding F&W so it doesn’t make seen to cut NRs out. If they do raise their rates for NRs they will force NRs hunters to look at other more feasible and managed states for their hunting needs.
To your points. 1) NR won’t lose any elk licenses, probably few antelope license, no general deer license, lose some LQ deer, will definitely lose some m/s/g. 2)With the price hikes no revenue will be lost but actually gained. 3) NR do provide majority of license revenue but not exactly overall revenue. 4) NR May look elsewhere but I doubt it has any affect. Demand greatly outweighs supply.
 
Most of Wyoming’s funds are due to NRs so if they cut out NRs to the 90/10 rule their Dept of fish and wildlife will feel the financial impacts of less hunters and less revenue. Non residents play a majority part in funding F&W so it doesn’t make seen to cut NRs out. If they do raise their rates for NRs they will force NRs hunters to look at other more feasible and managed states for their hunting needs.
What states do you consider more feasible?
 
If I understand this proposed bill correctly, the language reserving 75% of the R/NR tag quota for the preference point draw is not being changed? The following is copied verbatim from the proposed bill;

”not less than ninety percent (90%) of the limited quota big game animal, wild bison and grizzly bear licenses to be issued in any one (1) year for resident hunters in the initial license drawings”

“In any hunt area with less than ten (10) licenses available, the commission shall not issue any licenses to nonresident hunters under this subsection.”

If so, the above language as written as it pertains to the NR sheep and moose tags means that there would need to be a minimum of 10 total tags per hunt area to have a NR preference point tag available, and in order to have a NR random tag available the area would need to have a total quota of 40 tags.

Looking at this year’s available sheep hunts and areas, under the proposed bill there would only be 12 NR preference point tags available in the draw, and none available in the random draw. Under the current allocation, it looks like there were 44 total NR sheep tags available in the draw this year (38 preference, 6 random).

Looking at this year’s available moose hunts and areas, under the proposed bill there would only be 25 NR preference point tags available in the draw, and 2 available in the random draw. Under the current allocation, it looks like there were 61 total NR moose tags available in the draw this year (55 preference, 6 random).

Is this how you guys are understanding this bill as it pertains to NR moose and sheep?

Thanks,

Horniac
 
“Californians are flooding into the state and that is what worries me the most.”
Best quote above and the only reason I see all states needing to make a change. However, a simple amendment just noting limits on people from CA would solve the issue.
 
Received the below, take the time to send an email to the representatives, as a non-resident even though we don't vote there we do bring in $$$ to the state so make your voice heard?


Dear Sportsman,

Wyoming Senator Larry Hicks has filed Senate File 103, a 90/10 license allocation and fee increase bill that would be devastating to your ability to draw a Wyoming big game hunting license in the future.

We need your help to contact members of the Senate Travel, Recreation and Wildlife Committee as soon as possible to share your opposition to the bill and how it would impact your ability to hunt in Wyoming. The bill will be heard by the committee at 8 a.m. on Thursday, March 4, 2021.

Please keep your messages focused and specific to how this appalling bill will hurt your future plans to hunt in Wyoming. Please let the senators know that you have made a financial investment in preference points and license fees and remind the Senators of the positive economic impact nonresident hunters, like yourself, brings to Wyoming.

Thank you for taking the time to reach out to these Wyoming Legislators it is critical they hear from you and how a 50 percent reduction in licenses would affect your ability to hunt and Wyoming’s economy.

The Senators are listed below:

Chairwoman Affie Ellis (Cheyenne) [email protected]
Senator Mike Gierau (Jackson) [email protected]
Senator Tim Salazar (Dubois) [email protected]
Senator Bill Landen (Casper) [email protected]
Senator Wendy Schuler (Evantson) [email protected]

PROFESSIONAL SERVICES AGREEMENT Sincerely,

Sy Gilliland, President
Wyoming Outfitters & Guides Association

PO Box 2650
Casper, WY 82602
[email protected]
wyoga.org
307.265.2376
 
If I understand this proposed bill correctly, the language reserving 75% of the R/NR tag quota for the preference point draw is not being changed? The following is copied verbatim from the proposed bill;

”not less than ninety percent (90%) of the limited quota big game animal, wild bison and grizzly bear licenses to be issued in any one (1) year for resident hunters in the initial license drawings”

“In any hunt area with less than ten (10) licenses available, the commission shall not issue any licenses to nonresident hunters under this subsection.”

If so, the above language as written as it pertains to the NR sheep and moose tags means that there would need to be a minimum of 10 total tags per hunt area to have a NR preference point tag available, and in order to have a NR random tag available the area would need to have a total quota of 40 tags.

Looking at this year’s available sheep hunts and areas, under the proposed bill there would only be 12 NR preference point tags available in the draw, and none available in the random draw. Under the current allocation, it looks like there were 44 total NR sheep tags available in the draw this year (38 preference, 6 random).

Looking at this year’s available moose hunts and areas, under the proposed bill there would only be 25 NR preference point tags available in the draw, and 2 available in the random draw. Under the current allocation, it looks like there were 61 total NR moose tags available in the draw this year (55 preference, 6 random).

Is this how you guys are understanding this bill as it pertains to NR moose and sheep?

Thanks,

Horniac
The G&F uses overall numbers so you are incorrect.
 
“Dear Non-Resident Sportsman, Please email Wyoming elected legislators as non-Wyoming citizens.” It’s like saying, Dear Earth Citizens, please tell China and Premiere Xi to stop selling cheap Chinese goods in America. I’m sure he would be as attentive as these Wyoming legislators will be towards Non-Residents pleading to sway duly Wyoming elected officials with ZERO political clout or sponsored input on the process.
 
@BuzzH, Has a wildlife issue ever decided an election in WY (senate and house)? Only reason I ask is because according to the statistics only 13% of Wyoming residents hunt. Admittedly I thought it’d be higher and wonder how many of the remaining 500,000 give two chits about it.
 
Anyone already gave a generic letter written up to send to everyone?

I had one to send to WYOGA but it had a cuss word and my medicine kicked in before I hit send. He's responsible for the dept holding my nr money for 5 months, the nr wilderness law, and only wants nr support when it directly benefits him and his cronies.
I wouldn't pull him outta the ditch.
 
Most of Wyoming’s funds are due to NRs so if they cut out NRs to the 90/10 rule their Dept of fish and wildlife will feel the financial impacts of less hunters and less revenue. Non residents play a majority part in funding F&W so it doesn’t make seen to cut NRs out. If they do raise their rates for NRs they will force NRs hunters to look at other more feasible and managed states for their hunting needs.
Feel free to hunt where you like, and if Wyoming isn't your cup of tea you won't be missed. Just makes the odds that much better for those who know what Wyoming has to offer. Now I'm going upstairs to see if my 9 year old was playing on MM and goes by; Mc1963.
 
Some of you NR make me laugh. I don't know how many times I've seen NR complain about the wilderness law, yet jump up and down to support the biggest welfare recipients in the state, Sy and WYOGA. How's that wilderness law treating you? Places that used to allow a small trespass fee are now all tied up by Sy and his cronies.
 
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$8 million increase in revenue....not likely! Messing with a large sector of your economy while other large sectors are struggling (oil,gas, mining) to please a small portion of your population....not extremely wise. The negative consequences of this bill may far outweigh any positives. In my opinion, that 10% increase in tags is going to be very costly in both lost dollars and lost support.
 
Nonres invest $12 million in pref pts each year and wyo res only $100,000. Your buddy Larry didn’t mention that! What happens to all that pref pt $ once nonres start dropping out of the draw system like flies?

No one has really explained where that $8 million comes from when nonres tags are cut in 1/2? I’m sure the outfitters aren’t going down without a fight! It’s their livelihood that’s at stake. Outfitters are the only ones on nonres side so can you blame them?
 
Maybe Wyoming should make NR's buy a nonrefundable hunting license like several other western states. I'm sure that would help make up the difference. What do you say Jim's? I mean you're so concerned about GnF losing money here is your chance to help out.
 
Maybe Wyoming should make NR's buy a nonrefundable hunting license like several other western states. I'm sure that would help make up the difference. What do you say Jim's? I mean you're so concerned about GnF losing money here is your chance to help out.
Non-residents spend $100 - $400 on points a year in Wyoming, I think that is more than any other state to buy a license and build points for sheep and moose and there is no way to not pay the 3% transaction fee on top of that!
 
Non-residents spend $100 - $400 on points a year in Wyoming, I think that is more than any other state to buy a license and build points for sheep and moose and there is no way to not pay the 3% transaction fee on top of that!
Meh. Couch change. It’s worth it.
 
@BuzzH, Has a wildlife issue ever decided an election in WY (senate and house)? Only reason I ask is because according to the statistics only 13% of Wyoming residents hunt. Admittedly I thought it’d be higher and wonder how many of the remaining 500,000 give two chits about it.
I think JM77 would have a better feel for that...I believe in certain districts it certainly COULD.
 
Non-residents spend $100 - $400 on points a year in Wyoming, I think that is more than any other state to buy a license and build points for sheep and moose and there is no way to not pay the 3% transaction fee on top of that!
Yes there is...don't apply and you wont be subjected to the 3% transaction fee.
 
Nonres invest $12 million in pref pts each year and wyo res only $100,000. Your buddy Larry didn’t mention that! What happens to all that pref pt $ once nonres start dropping out of the draw system like flies?

No one has really explained where that $8 million comes from when nonres tags are cut in 1/2? I’m sure the outfitters aren’t going down without a fight! It’s their livelihood that’s at stake. Outfitters are the only ones on nonres side so can you blame them?
Uhhhh because tags wont be cut in half...if only obviously...along with the fee increases...if only more obviously.

NR elk applications were up just shy of 6500 AGAIN this year...where are those dropping flies?
 
Yes there is...don't apply and you wont be subjected to the 3% transaction fee.
Great advice! What happens if all non-residents decide together to boycott and take one year off and just get points?

Why can they not provide a debit card option for a significantly reduced fee?
 
Meh. Couch change. It’s worth it.
Everyone and their brother knows it is not worth $150 to get a moose or Bighorn Sheep point, unless you have a bunch of them. It will be interesting to see what happens this year with the change in requiring you to purchase a point to apply? Why did they make that change Buzz? How much revenue will be lost?
 
OK but that was how it was previously done under the existing language found in 23‑1‑703 (e).

The proposed bill says that residents get a minimum of 90% of the tags and then goes on to add this language to 23-1-703 (e);

“In any hunt area with less than ten (10) licenses available, the commission shall not issue any licenses to nonresident hunters under this subsection.”

So as an example, bighorn sheep areas 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 17&26, 18&21, 19, 20, 22, 24 all had less than 10 licenses available this year so if the new bill is passed the plain language above prohibits the department from issuing any NR tags in these hunt areas.

In order to give NR‘s 10% of the total state quota of sheep licenses, they would have to give NR’s more than 10% of the tags in other hunt areas to make up the 4 or 5 NR tags that can’t be issued in those hunt areas due to the new “less than 10“ rule.

But nowhere does it state that NR’s are guaranteed 10% of the tags just that residents get 90% minimum so the department could issue 90%, 91%, 92%, 93%, 94%, etc. as a result of this added language concerning hunt areas with less than 10 licenses and still be in compliance.

Not sure if this is what was intended but that‘s how I read it...

Horniac
 
I could honestly care less about 90/10, it’s on par with every other state. I’ve already decided I don’t care enough about elk hunting to buy points/apply in any state that doesn’t require a license purchase, this would probably change my strategy greatly for mule deer in that I may continue to build points a little longer and hope for 1 high quality tag in my lifetime and most of all I would really miss antelope hunting in Wyoming, because while it’s one of my favorite species to hunt I just don’t know that I could stomach the $600 for a tag
 
Sheep and moose it’s obvious nonres applicant flies will be dropping! Other species will take twice as long to draw limited tags plus increase in tag price plus high pref pt costs the flies will be dropping. there potentially will be fewer new applicants applying in Wyo that will see poor draw odds plus expensive pre pt fees arentso that’s additional revenue loss.

when nonres currently spend $12 million on pref pts and res only $100,000 that’s a monster revenue difference. When flies drop there goes a chunk of that $12 million revenue that currently exists!

the big losers are the small town community businesses!
 
Sheep and moose it’s obvious nonres applicant flies will be dropping! Other species will take twice as long to draw limited tags plus increase in tag price plus high pref pt costs the flies will be dropping. there potentially will be fewer new applicants applying in Wyo that will see poor draw odds plus expensive pre pt fees arentso that’s additional revenue loss.

when nonres currently spend $12 million on pref pts and res only $100,000 that’s a monster revenue difference. When flies drop there goes a chunk of that $12 million revenue that currently exists!

the big losers are the small town community businesses!
The downturn in Wyo's oil & gas industry will hurt small town businesses a lot more than losing a handful of hunters for a week or two a year. If a motel/restaurant/etc relies on hunting season to make ends meet, then they probably rely on a $600 stimulus check to get by on too.
 
jims you make it sound like small towns make all their money from NR hunters and that is simply not true. Yes it would hurt a bit but come on man, tourism and yes even residents travel around the state and contribute to those small towns. We do it during hunting season and out of season, think about sporting events and the like. We also pay taxes and fees that support our small towns.
 
Great advice! What happens if all non-residents decide together to boycott and take one year off and just get points?

Why can they not provide a debit card option for a significantly reduced fee?
Boycott wyoming...nobody is forcing you to apply. I'm sure the 6,476 additional elk applicants will appreciate your boycott.

As to the second question...I really don't care about chump change, I truly don't. It makes sense to pass on fees like that to the consumer rather than burden the gf and it puts more money into wildlife. If I recall correctly from the commission meeting when that passed it saved the department a significant amount.

For all the issues you seem to have with the way wyoming does business, I suggest you look into states that are more to your liking.
 
All I really know is that it sucks building up 21 sheep points only to see what could of been a great hunt in 5 years turn into 10, 20 years or never.
Bill
There was no guarantee of a tag when you started applying 21 years ago and no guarantee things wouldn't change.
 
All I really know is that it sucks building up 21 sheep points only to see what could of been a great hunt in 5 years turn into 10, 20 years or never.
Bill
Hopefully you sent an email to those legislators. Believe me, some of them do listen to NR’s. I think your point right here is one they need to hear.
Obviously residents are going to want more, as more of a good thing is usually better than less, but NR’s do need to do what they can to keep what we’ve got.
 
Boycott wyoming...nobody is forcing you to apply. I'm sure the 6,476 additional elk applicants will appreciate your boycott.

As to the second question...I really don't care about chump change, I truly don't. It makes sense to pass on fees like that to the consumer rather than burden the gf and it puts more money into wildlife. If I recall correctly from the commission meeting when that passed it saved the department a significant amount.

For all the issues you seem to have with the way wyoming does business, I suggest you look into states that are more to your liking.
You didn't answer the question. What happens if everyone boycotts, not just me? How many people lose their jobs if non-residents decide to take the year off? Half of WY G&F jobs down the drain?

On to #2, That's the issue Buzz! It is not chump change to many people!!! It just plain is not chump change. A lot of people are regular working people who have to decide where and how to spend their money. To say it is chump change is arrogant.

If you apply for every species in Wyoming as a non-resident you have to pay $432 in credit card transaction fees, even if you use a debit card that has significantly lower transaction fees then credit cards (like a few dollars). I think it is a huge deal and it is why I haven't applied randomly for moose or sheep or goat since they made that change, it doesn't make sense for the low odds. to spend $70 to apply for a tag with such low odds when you are already spending $150 on a point. I write people every week about this, I really think it needs to change, especially if Wyoming is not paying 3% on debit card transactions. If they are, then they got totally scammed by someone who is making big money off of non-residents applying.

It is blatant bait and switch what is going on. You have people who have 20 years or more of moose and sheep points where they have been sending in $300 per year and are just about to get out of the game and now they may never draw while they can still walk if this passes, but they kind of are forced to keep sending in the $300 because they have so much time and money invested. It is bait and switch.

"I fought that bill in Wyoming and will continue to fight for NR's in Wyoming. These constant shifting of goal posts is not fair to anyone but a handful of Residents each year as a "best" case." Buzz, 2014
 
There was no guarantee of a tag when you started applying 21 years ago and no guarantee things wouldn't change.
I agree 21 years ago there wasn't a guarantee, but 10 years ago or 5 years ago there surely was a very very high probability if you stuck with it you would draw while you could still walk. Most people spending $150 per year on a point are looking at how many people are ahead of them and how many tags there are and when they could "reasonably" draw, I know I have a spreadsheet of those with points from year to year and where I stand. I said it before and will say it again, if this changes, Wyoming owes any non-resident who bought points a refund on their points if they so desire. That sounds fair to me. Okay by you?
 
You didn't answer the question. What happens if everyone boycotts, not just me? How many people lose their jobs if non-residents decide to take the year off? Half of WY G&F jobs down the drain?

On to #2, That's the issue Buzz! It is not chump change to many people!!! It just plain is not chump change. A lot of people are regular working people who have to decide where and how to spend their money. To say it is chump change is arrogant.

If you apply for every species in Wyoming as a non-resident you have to pay $432 in credit card transaction fees, even if you use a debit card that has significantly lower transaction fees then credit cards (like a few dollars). I think it is a huge deal and it is why I haven't applied randomly for moose or sheep or goat since they made that change, it doesn't make sense for the low odds. to spend $70 to apply for a tag with such low odds when you are already spending $150 on a point. I write people every week about this, I really think it needs to change, especially if Wyoming is not paying 3% on debit card transactions. If they are, then they got totally scammed by someone who is making big money off of non-residents applying.

It is blatant bait and switch what is going on. You have people who have 20 years or more of moose and sheep points where they have been sending in $300 per year and are just about to get out of the game and now they may never draw while they can still walk if this passes, but they kind of are forced to keep sending in the $300 because they have so much time and money invested. It is bait and switch.

"I fought that bill in Wyoming and will continue to fight for NR's in Wyoming. These constant shifting of goal posts is not fair to anyone but a handful of Residents each year as a "best" case." Buzz, 2014
You're living in fantasyland, good luck with your boycott of Wyoming hunting. Rally the troops, get it done. Good luck with that. Maybe work on boycotting WalMart too...I hear people "boycotting" them too...right after this weeks GreatValue brands run out.

What a joke...

What you find as value on your money is your business if you don't want to spend the $432 to apply in Wyoming...don't. I support your decision that the whopping $432 would be better spent taking the old lady out to a semi-fancy dinner with rather than applying in Wyoming. I'm cool with that. Or putting that $432 into your gas tank. Or that $432 buying school clothes for your kids. Or buying your family fishing and hunting licenses in the State you're residents in. Head to CO and buy a bag of devil lettuce with it...whatever blows your skirt up.

I'm just not going to advocate or waste my time to carry your concerns to my GF department to worry about your credit card woes. Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy bigger fish to fry.

Same with the NR point fees....not an important issue to me at all, I just don't care and lets not forget, anyone with 10 or more points got a bunch of then for $7. NR point fees, applications, and associated card fees are so insignificant that I purchase all of them for my immediate NR family, apply for them using my card. I hate shopping for Christmas and Birthdays...and they appreciate the time I spend applying for them.

I'm done listening to your complaints about how chitty Wyoming is for hunting...
 
I agree 21 years ago there wasn't a guarantee, but 10 years ago or 5 years ago there surely was a very very high probability if you stuck with it you would draw while you could still walk. Most people spending $150 per year on a point are looking at how many people are ahead of them and how many tags there are and when they could "reasonably" draw, I know I have a spreadsheet of those with points from year to year and where I stand. I said it before and will say it again, if this changes, Wyoming owes any non-resident who bought points a refund on their points if they so desire. That sounds fair to me. Okay by you?
People that apply for points got what they paid for...points. They paid that money with eyes wide open...just like I do in NV, UT, AZ, MT, WY, etc. I know fully well what I'm buying, and its not a guarantee at a tag...or a false premise that point systems are not ever going to change.

They aren't owed anything...willing buyer, willing seller...that simple.
 
Nripepi,

I first want to say that I sympathize with your situation. However, you must realize that Buzz and others simply don’t care about NR preference points or NR limited quota licenses. They are confident that NR will continue to apply for lesser quality opportunities; and they are also confident that NR are willing to pay more for these lesser quality opportunities. Those are the simple facts. As for a mass boycott of Wyoming hunting by NR; good luck with that.

You are wasting your time trying to reason with them since their minds are already made up. Your only hope is to contact the various committee members and explain the situation to them. I listened to the senator’s presentation yesterday and he is basically representing his constituents (Wyoming resident hunters) with disregard to NR hunters and Wyoming Outfitters.

I did not hear the senator address the preference point issue but I think your chances are beyond slim and none that you will ever receive a preference point refund. I would hope that if this legislation passes that the WY Game and Fish or some other group would publish detailed information regarding the reality of drawing a NR license for sheep and moose in the preference point draw. There are currently 11,000 NR with preference points for sheep; at the proposed rate of 25 sheep tags per year, it will take 440 years for all of these folks to draw a tag. Most people will die before they ever draw the tag. This statement is true for both residents and non-residents. These preference points are providing over $1.5 million dollars of income per year; the senator failed to mention this income.

Basically the maximum 10% NR sheep allocation would reduce NR sheep tags from approximately 60 per year to approximately 25 per year; a 60% reduction in sheep tags. Various hunting publications have already indicated that NR applicants with less than 18 preference points are basically wasting the $150/year preference point fee for sheep since applicants with less than 18 points will most likely never draw a sheep tag in the preference point drawing. If the allocation is reduced from 25% to a maximum of 10%, the probability to draw in the preference point draw will decrease by 60%.



Just my 2 cents.
 

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