less cow tags

[muleywatcher]

I have never seen so many bulls this year with broken antlers
from fighting.
mostly on manti area last weak I noticed every canyon that had elk had 4 to 5 cows for every bull, and alot of broken antlers.
most hunters cant tell the difference or dont care if the cow they shoot in late season is calfing not only that to much hunting pressure will cause the cows to abort the calf
so less elk are being born in a year or two we will see the herd numbers fall dramatically just my opinion.

 

[swbuckmaster]

sorry but the elk dont calf durring the season. they wont abort their calvs either.

How do you control a population of elk at or above objective.
You do it by hunting the cows.

Archery is a year round commitment!!

 

[carbonnation]

Lord knows, that in the state of Utah you can't reach herd objectives by killing more bulls......The all mighty herd objective is far far more important than a healthy bull to cow ratio. Everyone says they don't want to wait 15 year to draw a tag to shoot a small bull....I seriously doubt they want to wait 15 years to shoot broken one either. Ohhh he would have gone 400 if he had not broken 200 inches of antler

 

[muleywatcher]

My bad (they dont calve) most cows are pregnate during late
season cow hunt nov dec Ill try to be really specific so you understand. when cows that are pregnate and are pushed in deep
snow they will sometimes abort there calf under extreme conditions. when all the bulls are breaking off there antlers fighting for one or two cows probably means there are not very many cows left I am just saying reduce cow tags in some areas not all. ya dont control elk population by killing all the cows
there has to be a balance

 

[swbuckmaster]

"ya dont control elk population by killing all the cows
there has to be a balance"

as a matter of fact that is exactly how you control an elk population that is at objective. You control elk numbers by killing cows, you control quality of elk by limiting bull tags.

Sorry but when a herd is over objective you are right you have to do something. killing more bulls will no doubt have a temporary fix on elk numbers. the cows will keep up the recruitment and in a year or so you will have to kill more bulls or be forced to kill cows.

the balance you are looking for is:
get the rifle hunt out of the rut. and allow more archery tags. archers are 100 times less likely to kill the quality out of a herd then rifle hunters. They kill from a broad range of age groups. thus the quality stays high. the bonus point butt plug takes a laxative so to speak allowing more people to move through the system and Utah still kicks out 400" bulls.

Arizona elk plan is a perfect example of how to allow more tags, and still kill as big as bulls as Utah.

The Wasatch front is also a perfect example of great management of Deer. Where else in Utah can you have 200" quality, over the counter opportunity, lack of winter range, 4 month seasons, rut hunts, and no winter range!

Archery is the answer

However you will still have to kill cows if the herd is over objective that is basic 101 in biology.

Archery is a year round commitment!!

 

[muleywatcher]

I agree archery is the answer. (If it was up to me more areas would be archery only)

2011 archery will be in the elk rut hopefully.
I understand what you are saying I am just talking about a few areas on the manti that gets extra pressure from late cow hunt, extended archery and theres is to many cmwu late cow tags for that area as well, and there is just a few cows left in that area.