License fee increase for nonresidents introduced in House

I understand the cost of living increases, but for those of you that think these tremendous fee increases are just fine, realize that not everyone has high dollar equipment and money to spare. Does anyone considered that there are many family's out there that would like to show their children, the future generation, the experience of hunting the West, within a reasonable, affordable cost. We are losing sight of what hunting should be. It's become too commercialized even for the departments like the G & F...etc. Also, these departments should not have to be supported soley by license sales, it's a ridiculous concept that I expect in reality leads to a poorer outcome for all things related. Hunters inject more than just license fees into the local economies, but I'm sure it's unlikley that any tax dollars would be injected to temper costs....?
 
Sent my email to the Travel Committee today. Opposed to the bill on a few points.

1. There is no current budget crunch and the game and fish appear to be very healthy financially

2. This increase is not tied to any specific need, or project. As such I am not in favor of giving any government agency a blank check.

3. This increase could be a great contingency plan in the future for a special project, like access yes or it could be used to fill a hole if/when the agency has a need…

also mentioned that the NAM is very important and this move does not appear to be in the spirit of the model.

Thanks to Buzz and JM for keeping this in the spotlight… Now hopefully this one does not make it out of committee…
 
Got a email from Eastman Hunting Journal. In a decisive 20-10 vote, the Wyoming Senate voted to kill the Senate File 60 bill that would have increased non-resident fees for deer, elk and antelope in the “special draw” by nearly double.
 
So show me on person who comes here to hunt that the license is not one of the cheapest aspects of the hunt? Even at regular prices the lic is one of the cheapest aspects of the hunt. Given fuel is up, etc. it is still one of the cheapest aspects of hunting WY.
"one of the cheapest aspects" Yes it is, but the thing is every aspect of the hunt cost more each year and the sum of it all is reaching the tipping point for many of us.
In '07 my guided wilderness hunts in NW Wy cost $4K + tips, tags, and travel. Now its
$8 to 10K + tips, tags, and travel. And some hunts are more!
I am one of the guys getting priced out of the game.
 
Harder to feel sorry for a guy who got priced out of a guided hunt.

The whole idea behind WYOGA and their HB0200 bill is that these exorbitant NR special prices ensure that only the ridiculously wealthy will be in the special draws. And these wealthy NRs will hopefully now be able to draw GEN elk nearly annually like they did back when special draw first came to be. And most importantly - those same wealthy folks are going to be primarily hiring guides.

And just like that, WYOGA got a quasi-outfitter allocation without calling it that. And for their complicity, the state of WY gets a cut of the spoils with the increased tag fee.
 
I understand the cost of living increases, but for those of you that think these tremendous fee increases are just fine, realize that not everyone has high dollar equipment and money to spare. Does anyone considered that there are many family's out there that would like to show their children, the future generation, the experience of hunting the West, within a reasonable, affordable cost. We are losing sight of what hunting should be. It's become too commercialized even for the departments like the G & F...etc. Also, these departments should not have to be supported soley by license sales, it's a ridiculous concept that I expect in reality leads to a poorer outcome for all things related. Hunters inject more than just license fees into the local economies, but I'm sure it's unlikley that any tax dollars would be injected to temper costs....?
The NR regular fees aren't increasing and NR youth fees are not increasing either.

I disagree also on license fees, they are not the sole funding mechanism, certainly a large part.

The good thing about not receiving money from the general fund is that it makes it tougher for meddling from politicians.
 
So show me on person who comes here to hunt that the license is not one of the cheapest aspects of the hunt? Even at regular prices the lic is one of the cheapest aspects of the hunt. Given fuel is up, etc. it is still one of the cheapest aspects of hunting WY.
I do
 
Ok let’s look at this differently. WY doesn’t have to rely on N/R money to balance there budget prices aren’t going up ya.
 
The NR regular fees aren't increasing and NR youth fees are not increasing either.

I disagree also on license fees, they are not the sole funding mechanism, certainly a large part.

The good thing about not receiving money from the general fund is that it makes it tougher for meddling from politicians.
They get this increase on the special, next year it will be the regular and youth.
 
So show me on person who comes here to hunt that the license is not one of the cheapest aspects of the hunt? Even at regular prices the lic is one of the cheapest aspects of the hunt. Given fuel is up, etc. it is still one of the cheapest aspects of hunting WY.
For me, the license is actually one of the most expensive parts of "A HUNT".
My truck I drive 365 days a year.
My backpack food isn't much more than the cost of my food if I was at home or doing something else.
My gun and bow are also used numerous other hunts and also used most every day of the year.
Pack, tent, sleeping bag, clothes, and other misc gear is used on numerous other hunts.
The only real costs I have for each INDIVIDUAL hunt is the cost of the tag and the price of gas.
For me it is 1500 miles round trip to Cody so at $3/gal I spend $300 on gas.
So for me, the tag IS the most expensive part of a hunt.

Now granted all of the other stuff needed is also getting more expensive but for an individual hunt for me as a DIY guy the tag is my most expensive element.

I'm not complaining about the cost of the tags and can certanily afford them. But just making a point.
 
They get this increase on the special, next year it will be the regular and youth.
I don't think so.

Plus, any tags that don't go special will drop to the regular fee...this could help increase regular tags in some cases.

Glass isn't always half empty.
 
They’re worn out, inflated away, over stretched and over taxed.

Caving and accepting handouts henceforth, seems the only way to get ahead in this world.
If you need an M1 Abrams, logistics and support, just ask…… they are decent off road, a little wide though.
Not derailing this thread.

I use this excuse, I have to do this right now ( it is once in lifetime but happens almost every year ). Because I cannot when I am older.
To be honest I will still pay the $1900 and hope the odds go way up on randoms.
 
I was thinking the same thing about a free M1 (where do I sign up!) but would have to turn it down or scrap it over the cost of fuel.

I don’t even know where this thread started anymore but like all good threads, it eventually ends up in the same black hole!

Until the next iteration!
 
Look at all you grown ass men crying about the cost of your vacation going up. Pathetic. Have some self respect FFS.

Men don’t cry they can’t afford a vacation. Men make it happen. Stop being a whiney ass sissy la la.

Grow a pair. Make more money. But stop crying on hunting forums because your vacation is going to cost you more. Put a life jacket on and jump in your river of tears. Because if you whiners jumped in without one you would drown.

Have you seen the cost of life jackets these days? Just jump….
 
Apparently HB200 passed the House, now on to the Senate.

I'm redoing hunting budget for next year gents... :cool:
Oh yeah, its going to pass the Senate too I'm sure, was a task force recommendation and also a TRW sponsored bill. It has legs.

Going to be winners and losers in how you play the game from this year forward.

Those that mow a few extra lawns for the special will be hunting a lot more often.
 
I say go for it Wyo!

On the bright side this may be one of the best things that could possibly happen for DIY/OYO nonres hunters and possibly Wyoming wildlife. I certainly hope that if the increase does pass that the WG&F is wise enough to use the additional budget for putting more critters in the hills rather than lost in bureaucracy.

Once WG&F has the increased budget it will be that much tougher for financial cuts to be made with 90/10 or 90/5/5. Of course Buzz doesn't agree with that scenario but I bet it's true! With that said, Wyo may be doing DIY/OYO hunters a big favor with license price increases, although nonres will have to dig deeper into our pockets to support an even higher % of the WG&F budget that benefits Wyoming wildlife!
 
Since it looks likely, I'll say I hope you are right. But I have doubts it will be much different. The demand for good hunts is outpacing supply- so maybe a small dip but I'll bet it's hardly noticeable.
I take that bet, in particular pronghorn.
 
Will this affect this year or 2024? They already charged my card for elk but I suppose they could still raise deer and antelope?
 
I want Residents to enjoy the same tag percentages as the surrounding states.

Montana, Utah, New Mexico, Oregon, Arizona all limit NR's to 10% or less of their tags.

Why do you feel its inappropriate for Wyoming Residents to want the same thing?

the "problem" I see with this argument is that all those states have literally millions of residents willing to fund their F&G operations. Wyoming's total populations is what, 500,000? Let's assume 100% of them hunt.

Now assume ALL NR tags go away, what is a WY resident now going to have to pay after removing 95% of current funding from the bank account?

You can't fund 95% of your F&G budget from NR fees then complain about them having the temerity to exist. Wy flat out cannot self-fund their wildlife management even with a 10X increase in resident fees.

disclosure : I put in for special everything in WY as a NR, drawing moose x 1, elk x 2, ant x maybe 40(?).
 
Bull-honky Buzz!

Wyo outfitters may want to be extremely careful what they wish for! NM antelope hunts may actually become cheaper than guided Wyo hunts without having to draw a tag!

The last time I checked, Pronghorn Guide Service charged $5200 for a trophy Wyoming antelope hunt. Now add onto that the price of a nonres special tag......ouch! Now add on the number of years it takes to draw a premier tag. After tags are sliced with 90/10 or 90/5/5 there are even fewer potential tags for outfitter clients for the premier units compared to status quo.

What is the going rate for a B&C-type antelope hunt in New Mexico? Landowner tags can be purchased each and every year without even worrying about drawing a tag in NM. I bet NM outfitters are drooling over additional clients switching gears from Wyo and heading directly to NM!

My advice to Wyo outfitters is to look close at status quo vs 90/10 or 90/5/5 tag numbers!
 
Bull-honky Buzz!

Wyo outfitters may want to be extremely careful what they wish for! NM antelope hunts may actually become cheaper than guided Wyo hunts without having to draw a tag!

The last time I checked, Pronghorn Guide Service charged $5200 for a trophy Wyoming antelope hunt. Now add onto that the price of a nonres special tag......ouch! Now add on the number of years it takes to draw a premier tag. After tags are sliced with 90/10 or 90/5/5 there are even fewer potential tags for outfitter clients for the premier units compared to status quo.

What is the going rate for a B&C-type antelope hunt in New Mexico? Landowner tags can be purchased each and every year without even worrying about drawing a tag in NM. I bet NM outfitters are drooling over additional clients switching gears from Wyo and heading directly to NM!

My advice to Wyo outfitters is to look close at status quo vs 90/10 or 90/5/5 tag numbers!
What are you babbling about?
 
the "problem" I see with this argument is that all those states have literally millions of residents willing to fund their F&G operations. Wyoming's total populations is what, 500,000? Let's assume 100% of them hunt.

Now assume ALL NR tags go away, what is a WY resident now going to have to pay after removing 95% of current funding from the bank account?

You can't fund 95% of your F&G budget from NR fees then complain about them having the temerity to exist. Wy flat out cannot self-fund their wildlife management even with a 10X increase in resident fees.

disclosure : I put in for special everything in WY as a NR, drawing moose x 1, elk x 2, ant x maybe 40(?).
Lets get some things straight:

1. NR's don't fund 95% of the budget, not even close to that.
2. Who said we're removing all NR tags, that's not been mentioned once.
3. Montana and other states do just fine with giving NR's 10% of their LQ tags.
4. Wyoming NR's, as well as tag numbers, will not decline for general elk, region deer tags, leftover pronghorn, deer, and elk.

It's fear mongering, the budget will be fine, NR's are still going to be hunting Wyoming at very similar numbers.

Take a breath, sharpen your pencil, and look at the facts...
 
SF60 has been reincarnated in the legislative branch it should have been in from the start. HB200 includes the same increases of it's ill-fated predecessor.
Only difference is it's not a TRW Committee sponsored bill.

SF60 has been reincarnated in the legislative branch it should have been in from the start. HB200 includes the same increases of it's ill-fated predecessor.
Only difference is it's not a TRW Committee sponsored bill.

Give me another reason to move to Wyoming. Lol
 
Give me another reason to move to Wyoming. Lol
Come on, we can use more support for 90-10 or 90-5-5...

The more residents the higher the demand will be for more tags in the hands of Residents.

I moved here 22 years ago, no regrets about it. Done very well here hunting, fishing, financially, professionally, etc.

That said, most aren't cut out for Wyoming.
 
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Bull-honky Buzz!

Wyo nonres currently support over 77% of the WG&F license and pref pt revenue. If nonres special tag prices double nonres will support way more than 77% of the WG&F budget for managing Wyoming wildlife!

IMG_1780.jpg
 
Bull-honky Buzz!

Wyo nonres currently support over 77% of the WG&F license and pref pt revenue. If nonres special tag prices double nonres will support way more than 77% of the WG&F budget for managing Wyoming wildlife!

View attachment 102568
Laffin'...you're babbling again.

Sebastian, go read the posts...the claim was NRs fund 95% of the GF budget.

That is 100% false and a lie.
 
Well, right back at you Bull-honky Buzz.

Truth is nonres currently support 77%+ of the WG&F license revenue. Buzz, do you agree?

77% + doubling the special price licenses = well over 80% of the WG&F revenue supported by nonres if special license prices are doubled. Buzz, do you agree?

Who's going to pick up the slack if the WG&F license and pref pt revenue falters with 90/10? Yep, UTlefty's point is well stated that other states have literally millions of residents willing to fund their F&G operations. What about Wyoming? We know what happens every time Wyo asks to raise resident license costs by a couple dollars!
 
Those of you that are against license and tag increases $$ do you drink, smoke, or eat out excessively? Have excessive vehicle payments? Not that I am for the increases, but I’m surely not going to stop buying them because of 1-2-300 increases. Funny to hear people not buying x because of price increase, yet they do the above items and not bat an eye..
 
Well, right back at you Bull-honky Buzz.

Truth is nonres currently support 77%+ of the WG&F license revenue. Buzz, do you agree?

77% + doubling the special price licenses = well over 80% of the WG&F revenue supported by nonres if special license prices are doubled. Buzz, do you agree?

Who's going to pick up the slack if the WG&F license and pref pt revenue falters with 90/10? Yep, UTlefty's point is well stated that other states have literally millions of residents willing to fund their F&G operations. What about Wyoming? We know what happens every time Wyo asks to raise resident license costs by a couple dollars!
Sebastian, is 77% more or less than 95%?

If you're unsure probably a second grader around that can explain it.

Montana has barely a million people and they are an "up to" 10% NR allocation.

Wyoming will never have a problem funding the GF in this lifetime. Can always keep jacking fees on NR and even some on Residents.

I think doe/fawn and cow/calf could generate wayyyy more revenue.
 
Looks like HB200 passed 43-19 in the house. I assume that means it will now go to the Senate who initially rejected the original bill file because it needed to be initiated in the House to be constitutional.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Looks like HB200 passed 43-19 in the house. I assume that means it will now go to the Senate who initially rejected the original bill file because it needed to be initiated in the House to be constitutional.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Correct...
 
You can't fund 95% of your F&G budget from NR fees then complain about them having the temerity to exist. Wy flat out cannot self-fund their wildlife management even with a 10X increase in resident fees.
NR account for around 50% of G&F budget.
Wyo nonres currently support over 77% of the WG&F license and pref pt revenue. If nonres special tag prices double nonres will support way more than 77% of the WG&F budget for managing Wyoming wildlife!
Not correct. See answer above^^^ NR do not account for 77% of total budget. It's around 50%.
Who's going to pick up the slack if the WG&F license and pref pt revenue falters with 90/10? Yep, UTlefty's point is well stated that other states have literally millions of residents willing to fund their F&G operations. What about Wyoming? We know what happens every time Wyo asks to raise resident license costs by a couple dollars!
By my calculations the additional revenue that will be taken in with the NR license and special fee increase will be more than enough to cover 90/10 EDA and with G&F in the black, those funds will be available. It's not nearly the amount of revenue loss( or tags for that matter) that most think due to resident leftovers and region deer tags.
 
Yep, nonres contribute 77% of the current WG&F license revenue. Why not put to good use the additional revenue contributed by nonres directly to wildlife habitat improvement projects like highway fencing, water and spring development, winter range habitat enhancement, predator control, CWD and other disease efforts that put more critters on the mountain that ultimately put more tags in both resident and nonres pockets.

CWD and EHD is currently raging havoc on deer and other critter populations in Wyo. What a novel idea to use additional revenue to directly battle those diseases?

The winter of 2023 appears to be showing it’s ugly face on winter ranges across Wyoming. What better use of $ than to conduct winter and summer range habitat improvement projects so wildlife has a better opportunity to survive Wyoming’s ruthless winters. How many deer and antelope have you seen dead along highways this winter? Do you think there is a dire need for highway fencing?

Public access to private land is a major concern in Wyo. How about using additional revenue to support landowner access programs?

It’s short-sighted to strip gained revenue for the sake of a handful of resident tags when there are options that benefit wildlife and everyone!
 
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Buzz, yep nonres currently support 77% of the WG&F license revenue. What happens if nonres special tag fees double? If my 2nd grade math is correct the nonres % will increase well over 80%!

Buzz, what happens to the 80%+ revenue contribution if 1/2 of the total number of limited tags are stripped from nonres?

Why on Earth would the WG&F severely cut their revenue when it’s possible to use that gained revenue to go directly to benefit wildlife and hunters?

The sky is the limit with benefits from the additional revenue!

Status quo is the way to go!
 
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Buzz, yep nonres currently support 77% of the WG&F license revenue. What happens if nonres special tag fees double? If my 2nd grade math is correct the nonres % will increase well over 80%!

Buzz, what happens to the 80%+ revenue contribution if 1/2 of the total number of limited tags are stripped from nonres?

Why on Earth would the WG&F severely cut their revenue when it’s possible to use that gained revenue to go directly to benefit wildlife and hunters?

The sky is the limit with benefits from the additional revenue!

Status quo is the way to go!
The Wyoming game and fish don't have a choice. The wildlife is held in trust for the citizens of the state. If the citizens decide they want 90% of the tags, we will get 90% of the tags.

I've already explained the numbers multiple times, region deer tags will be the same NR revenue, total full price elk tags will be the same, pronghorn tag numbers will be unchanged due to NR getting leftovers.

The funding is a non issue and if we need more revenue we can charge more for NR tags, resident tags, etc.

We aren't close to market value...

The loss in revenue argument is a non starter...fact.
 
The above statement is true, but that’s a terrible way to go. Charging someone more and more just because you can is not right. If hunting means so much to residents why don’t they pay more? You keep toting how you want to be/catch up to other states. Who else has a stupid NR wilderness law? Who else has set aside NR outfitter tags after letting NR build up large sum of points? The latest change to another state that hit high point holders was Arizona. And you most not of been paying attention when those high point holders got upset. Only someone in government would call a group of people who pay the majority of something entitled. Your hypocrisy astonished me.
 
Money for Wyoming must not be the issue. The same Wildlife task force Senator that co-sponsored the NR fee increase bill also sponsored a bill to give $5.5 million or so of Wyoming money to southern states to help build a border wall and transport migrants. Maybe Wyo should start looking at general fund money to help fund the G&F if we're so flush with money? Not wanting to turn this into a political debate. Just saying...and venting a bit.
 
Money for Wyoming must not be the issue. The same Wildlife task force Senator that co-sponsored the NR fee increase bill also sponsored a bill to give $5.5 million or so of Wyoming money to southern states to help build a border wall and transport migrants. Maybe Wyo should start looking at general fund money to help fund the G&F if we're so flush with money? Not wanting to turn this into a political debate. Just saying...and venting a bit.
The G&F is a stand alone agency, general fund money was given in the past but was taken away in hard times. Slippery slope, when legislators fund even a small amount to the Dept, they garner control. That's the last thing anyone wants, as they constantly try to meddle in G&F affairs as it is.
 
The above statement is true, but that’s a terrible way to go. Charging someone more and more just because you can is not right. If hunting means so much to residents why don’t they pay more? You keep toting how you want to be/catch up to other states. Who else has a stupid NR wilderness law? Who else has set aside NR outfitter tags after letting NR build up large sum of points? The latest change to another state that hit high point holders was Arizona. And you most not of been paying attention when those high point holders got upset. Only someone in government would call a group of people who pay the majority of something entitled. Your hypocrisy astonished me.
For starters, AK has a guide requirement for goat, sheep, and brown bears very similar to the wilderness guide law here. Plus, there are work arounds to that law, I've taken a few dozen friends/family members into the wilderness.

Set asides are not uncommon in many states, NV, NM, CO, etc.

Point systems change all the time, its already been pointed out, MT, CO, AZ, etc. have all changed over time.

As for AZ changing, who cares? I kept applying after the change. I've snagged 4 rifle bull elk tags, desert sheep, 5 late coues tags, multiple javelina....what's your point?

If you don't like the way a state does things, quit applying nobody is going to miss your applications.
 
So right now it has been sent to the senate. Does that mean it will go to the TRW committee in senate first to be voted on there and then out to the floor?
 
My guess is elk odds won’t change that much (unless this applies to cow tags?), easier to draw deer units/regions will get a little easier to draw and antelope will take substantially less points to draw, especially the mid to low tier units.

In the special draw of course, the regular will have the opposite effect.

Mark
 
Watching Wyoming is like watching Utah in the late 90's.

"Market price". Sounds great when your a grey hair setting the market.

Problem is, eventually that "market" wants return on investment. And not a tag. They will want better.

In Utah we call that CWMU, and "conservation tags". It's where "the market" is set, by guys who don't sweat $100k diesel trucks and $100k trailers.

And once "the market" gets it's sway, as will happen in Wyoming, because, no matter what Buzz thinks, MONEY TALKS, Wyoming becomes Utah.

What that means is, you lose a generation of kids that actually can't play in "the market". But the dirty secret, is you lose average folks, both NR and R. While the NR market skyrockets, the R market doesn't stay stagnant. Once the agencies get a taste of "the market", they aren't going back.

Gone, are the days when a Utah kid could run up to Evanston, grab a 6 pack, and enjoy an antelope hunt.

Now, that same kid can't swing it, so he finds other avenues.

Those avenues don't involve hunting. So they don't involve the politics of hunting either. Why should they care about corner crossing? Wolves? Grizzlies. F Wyoming.(same thing folks have said about Utah for awhile)

So who actually wins? The big money. The environmental wackjobs.

It's unbelievably short sighted and stupid, and frankly inexcusable for Wyoming to sit on the Utah border, watch what was done here, watch the fallout from it, then do the same stupid **** thinking the outcome will be different. It's arrogant, egotistical, and blind to believe politics are different because you have a cowboy on your plates. Money talks. Always.

Utah used to get flooded by Cali plates, hunting otc deer tags. We stopped that, priced those average dudes out. They quit. But the deep pocket dudes stayed. Utah's avg dude lost as the deep pockets now just buy what they want, including legislators, Boards, etc. And now avg Utah hunter is paying the price. We reap what we sow.

Wyoming owes me nothing. I can't swing $1200 antelope tags for the family, so I'm out of that. And yeah, I stop in Evanston to fill up. I hit the cowboy liquor store, and generally grab taco time at the Chevron. But that's not a big miss for Wyoming. The miss, is the guy that can swing that $$. He eats in Jackson Hole. He golfs in Jackson Hole. And, his politics are there too.

I wish we in Utah would have had an example to see where it goes, because YES, we would have fought like hell.

What's Wyoming excuse?
 
Buzz is a lot like Tri state. His visions are narrow minded and does not even see the other side of the story. When ever questions are asked it’s not answered or he compares apples to watermelons. And this nitpicking with Jim/Sebastian is third grade mentality.
 
My guess is elk odds won’t change that much (unless this applies to cow tags?), easier to draw deer units/regions will get a little easier to draw and antelope will take substantially less points to draw, especially the mid to low tier units.

In the special draw of course, the regular will have the opposite effect.

Mark
Agreed...well stated.
 
Buzz is a lot like Tri state. His visions are narrow minded and does not even see the other side of the story. When ever questions are asked it’s not answered or he compares apples to watermelons. And this nitpicking with Jim/Sebastian is third grade mentality.
I'm a resident of Wyoming, I care more about the Resident side...won't change or apologize for that.
 
Buzz is a lot like Tri state. His visions are narrow minded and does not even see the other side of the story. When ever questions are asked it’s not answered or he compares apples to watermelons. And this nitpicking with Jim/Sebastian is third grade mentality.
Right.

Meanwhile he showed up this morning to help defeat a bill that would allow landowners, under certain circumstances, to lay hands on you.

Where were all of you in your states?

Guess that's one way to keep Wyoming friendlier.
 
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Right.

Meanwhile he showed up this morning to help defeat a bill that would allow landowners, under certain circumstances, to lay hands on you.

Where were all of you?

Guess that's one way to keep Wyoming friendlier.

I was in Utah, where I've yet to see either of you at a RAC meeting. Kinda how that works, right?
 
You're a resident of Utah and that's where you should affect change. Congrats.
l'll edit just for you.
So when Buzz "takes time out"(I'd bet he's "working from home"), should we all bow down?

It's comical that he has repeatedly mentioned "other states", yet everyone NR is "on the sidelines" over Wy buisness.

So Im guessing, that according to that standard, a guy like Buzz who loves to "humble" brag about all the states he hunts, owes a lot of guys daily thanks, or butt kissing in those states for our generosity?

Or is it ok to just assume as sportsmen, we are doing what's best for the wildlife in our states?


I mean does he need flowers and chocolates?
 
So when Buzz "takes time out"(I'd bet he's "working from home"), should we all bow down?

It's comical that he has repeatedly mentioned "other states", yet everyone NR is "on the sidelines" over Wy buisness.

So Im guessing, that according to that standard, a guy like Buzz who loves to "humble" brag about all the states he hunts, owes a lot of guys daily thanks, or butt kissing in those states for our generosity?

Or is it ok to just assume as sportsmen, we are doing what's best for the wildlife in our states?


I mean does he need flowers and chocolates?
Dude, your vitriol for Buzz doesn't look good on you.

Take another road...
 
I am a NR from the Southeast and had the bright idea 5 years ago to start applying for Wyoming NR points for deer, elk, and antelope for myself and my son ( looking back wish I had not done that as I am $1,270 in and stuck in the middle now). I came to Wyoming in 1994 on my first western hunt and bagged a pair of Antelope and had a good time. For whatever reason I started focusing on and accumulating Colorado points after that and used 21 points on deer and 20 points on elk in the past few years to get out of the race and be done with it. Am I starting back buying Colorado points again? Heck no. If I ever get rid of these Wyoming points in the future I wont ever start back buying them either. I can afford it but it just isnt a good "value" to me. I can see people continuing on paying high NR prices for a while that have NEVER killed their first elk, muley, or pronghorn though. For $58 I get a resident sportsman license in my state and legally kill 8 whitetails, 3 Turkeys, and an unlimited amount of predators and small game within 30 minutes of my doorstep. Some of us NR have wised up to this mess.
 
I am a NR from the Southeast and had the bright idea 5 years ago to start applying for Wyoming NR points for deer, elk, and antelope for myself and my son ( looking back wish I had not done that as I am $1,270 in and stuck in the middle now). I came to Wyoming in 1994 on my first western hunt and bagged a pair of Antelope and had a good time. For whatever reason I started focusing on and accumulating Colorado points after that and used 21 points on deer and 20 points on elk in the past few years to get out of the race and be done with it. Am I starting back buying Colorado points again? Heck no. If I ever get rid of these Wyoming points in the future I wont ever start back buying them either. I can afford it but it just isnt a good "value" to me. I can see people continuing on paying high NR prices for a while that have NEVER killed their first elk, muley, or pronghorn though. For $58 I get a resident sportsman license in my state and legally kill 8 whitetails, 3 Turkeys, and an unlimited amount of predators and small game within 30 minutes of my doorstep. Some of us NR have wised up to this mess.
You can hunt all 3 of those species with 5 points. Whats the next problem on your list?
 
I am a NR from the Southeast and had the bright idea 5 years ago to start applying for Wyoming NR points for deer, elk, and antelope for myself and my son ( looking back wish I had not done that as I am $1,270 in and stuck in the middle now). I came to Wyoming in 1994 on my first western hunt and bagged a pair of Antelope and had a good time. For whatever reason I started focusing on and accumulating Colorado points after that and used 21 points on deer and 20 points on elk in the past few years to get out of the race and be done with it. Am I starting back buying Colorado points again? Heck no. If I ever get rid of these Wyoming points in the future I wont ever start back buying them either. I can afford it but it just isnt a good "value" to me. I can see people continuing on paying high NR prices for a while that have NEVER killed their first elk, muley, or pronghorn though. For $58 I get a resident sportsman license in my state and legally kill 8 whitetails, 3 Turkeys, and an unlimited amount of predators and small game within 30 minutes of my doorstep. Some of us NR have wised up to this mess.
If you started 5 years ago thinking you would catch one of the top areas anytime soon, you didn't do your research. However, with 5 points, you could be hunting any of the three this year in the regular price drawing. 5 points for deer and antelope can get you into some pretty solid hunts if you do your research and 5 would be a guarantee for the general elk tag.
 
Reread post #162. There are plenty of lessons to learn.

The number one take home is that if you disenfranchise hunters from 49 states, you lose their influence on other wildlife related matters in your state.

Even Wyoming needs help from residents of other states to fight the wolf and grizzly battles. Or the snowy owl, or snail darter, or whatever the environmentalist wacko flavor of the day will be in whatever state. Anybody who thinks a small state like WY has the horsepower to take on the Feds is beyond delusional. That doesn't mean Wyoming has done a poor job, just simply that you need votes from other congressman in D.C.

While people like to make this a R vs NR debate, is should not be that narrow minded. And those that proclaim it is all about protecting residents are short sighted beyond belief. This whole R vs NR debate could not be better scripted by the liberal mob. Divide and Conquer. Make sure you alienate hunters from other states. No one will be left to come to your defense when the wacko's take their next step in a never ending battle.

Wake Up!

Bill
 
Reread post #162. There are plenty of lessons to learn.

The number one take home is that if you disenfranchise hunters from 49 states, you lose their influence on other wildlife related matters in your state.

Even Wyoming needs help from residents of other states to fight the wolf and grizzly battles. Or the snowy owl, or snail darter, or whatever the environmentalist wacko flavor of the day will be in whatever state. Anybody who thinks a small state like WY has the horsepower to take on the Feds is beyond delusional. That doesn't mean Wyoming has done a poor job, just simply that you need votes from other congressman in D.C.

While people like to make this a R vs NR debate, is should not be that narrow minded. And those that proclaim it is all about protecting residents are short sighted beyond belief. This whole R vs NR debate could not be better scripted by the liberal mob. Divide and Conquer. Make sure you alienate hunters from other states. No one will be left to come to your defense when the wacko's take their next step in a never ending battle.

Wake Up!

Bill
Great, please explain in detail what you've ever done for the wolf, snowy owl, snail darter, or grizzly issue in Wyoming.

Nothing, that's what you've done.

Plus, license allocations, point systems, etc., the Feds can't intervene so we don't need your help. Same as your state doesn't need my help.

I tell you what you worry about your State and I'll worry about mine.

IF and that's a big IF there are federal issues that need state collaboration, we can work those together if you so choose. If not, we'll make do, always have.

To make this claim that if WY doesn't bend to conform with your wants and desires of OUR wildlife you won't help in Federal issues, well, Bye....you won't be missed.
 
Reread post #162. There are plenty of lessons to learn.

The number one take home is that if you disenfranchise hunters from 49 states, you lose their influence on other wildlife related matters in your state.

Even Wyoming needs help from residents of other states to fight the wolf and grizzly battles. Or the snowy owl, or snail darter, or whatever the environmentalist wacko flavor of the day will be in whatever state. Anybody who thinks a small state like WY has the horsepower to take on the Feds is beyond delusional. That doesn't mean Wyoming has done a poor job, just simply that you need votes from other congressman in D.C.

While people like to make this a R vs NR debate, is should not be that narrow minded. And those that proclaim it is all about protecting residents are short sighted beyond belief. This whole R vs NR debate could not be better scripted by the liberal mob. Divide and Conquer. Make sure you alienate hunters from other states. No one will be left to come to your defense when the wacko's take their next step in a never ending battle.

Wake Up!

Bill
Agreed. I would say that Wyoming has been great to NRs. If they want to move a bit more to residents, we as NRs should understand. Hopefully, they don't go full bore.

Ya gotta know that Wyoming has probably done more than any other state in giving new hunters a chance to see what true wilderness-like hunting is all about. Tens of thousands of new hunters over the last few decades got that chance, and likely became avid hunters. Hopefully, they can continue to lead in that regard.
 
Great, please explain in detail what you've ever done for the wolf, snowy owl, snail darter, or grizzly issue in Wyoming.

Nothing, that's what you've done.

Plus, license allocations, point systems, etc., the Feds can't intervene so we don't need your help. Same as your state doesn't need my help.

I tell you what you worry about your State and I'll worry about mine.

IF and that's a big IF there are federal issues that need state collaboration, we can work those together if you so choose. If not, we'll make do, always have.

To make this claim that if WY doesn't bend to conform with your wants and desires of OUR wildlife you won't help in Federal issues, well, Bye....you won't be missed.


So we can just assume all that money for corner crossing came from you and JM? I guess Meat eater is headquartered in Wyoming? Same with BHA?

How about the four Michiganders who had enough balls to push it? Damn NR.

THIS is exactly what pisses people off, THIS attitude.
 
So we can just assume all that money for corner crossing came from you and JM? I guess Meat eater is headquartered in Wyoming? Same with BHA?

How about the four Michiganders who had enough balls to push it? Damn NR.

THIS is exactly what pisses people off, THIS attitude.
Why do NR think they deserve status quo? THIS is the attitude that pisses people off in Wyoming. Like we owe you something.

No one had to raise money for the Missouri 4. Buzz and JM helped them. They didn't have to.

WY guys have been corner crossing for years. It's not like the Missouri 4 invented it.
 
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Why do NR think they deserve status quo? THIS is the attitude that pisses people off in Wyoming. Like we owe you something.

No one had to raise money for the Missouri 4. Buzz and JM helped them. They didn't have to.

WY guys have been corner crossing for years. It's not like the Missouri 4 invented it.

I got out of Wyoming. Priced out.

Don't think 90/10 is unreasonable.

I get SICK of listening to Buzz. He does what he does for his reasons.

The Missouri 4, like it or not did what Buzz didn't have the balls to do. Then a dude from Michigan, who lives in Montana threw his companies weight behind them.

That doesn't negate WyoBha. But that F u, I do it all talk from Buzz grinds dudes.

Funny how JM seems to be at his hip(mulecreek too?), yet somehow they are able to discuss issues without being a horse's arse.

Wyoming owes no one anything. But last I checked Buzz wasn't governor. Not senator. Not king of Wyoming. But listen to him, you'd think he is.

It gets really old. And further, on issues that a state with 2 senators and 1 congressman, has very little clout, this attitude of Buzz alienates people, that might otherwise drop a call, write a note, attend a meeting.

Last. If Wyoming doesn't want opinion, quit taking $$. For what they charge, dudes pay for a right to an opinion. Wyoming Residents get the say
 
Buzz has his head so far up his *** that he can't even acknowledge others are involved beyond his "heroic" efforts.

I have been fortunate enough to live in multiple western states, and have been deeply involved with many issues in various states. I don't need to state my credentials on the internet for self validation. But that won't matter to some, and it won't change what I do.

It would be nice if people actually learned from past mistakes. There have been examples in several western states that could be instructive regarding this issue, but you have to have your eyes open.

I made no suggestion in the post above about the status quo, or any "perfect" answer. I will simply restate that attempts to divide sportsman, blame NR's or any group for all problems is not going to end well. Ultimately legislators in each state make their own laws, and when they give in to the rabble they rarely make sound policy decisions. And then we will "need" even more government regulations to fix the problems they create.

With WDFG coffers already full, there isn't support for these proposals from within the Department. They can't spend all the money they currently have due to regulation from the legislature.

The destruction of western hunting is being sown in this and similar discussions in several states. When the next generation reaps what is being sown today, it will be too late to save the hunting culture most of us value today.

Bill
 
Ya gotta know that Wyoming has probably done more than any other state in giving new hunters a chance to see what true wilderness-like hunting is all about. Tens of thousands of new hunters over the last few decades got that chance, and likely became avid hunters. Hopefully, they can continue to lead in that regard.
“True wilderness-like”??? Odd phrasing. But what is even more odd is that WY has overtly PREVENTED more new (or old, or in-between) hunters from experiencing wilderness hunts than all the other Rocky Mtn western states combined. I can hunt wilderness anytime I have a tag elsewhere. No wilderness big game hunting for me or you in WY unless we pay to play or get a resident invite.
 
Wilderness-like: country that is not overun with civilization, towns, buildings, other hunters. I've hunted all over the state, and so much of it is remote country you hardly never see another hunter.

Wyoming range, ferris mountains, gros ventre, red desert, etc. Awesome country.

Ya, I've hunted the actual wilderness areas too. My parents live there, so wilderness was never an issue.
 
Btw. Let's be 100% honest.

Buzz, is a gov employee with a ton of years.

Whether it's PTO, Sick, Vacation, he's probably getting 300+ hours a year PAID..

Much of fs is still doing at least partial work from home.

So yes, it's cool he spends his time doing wildlife stuff, it's a world of difference in him, and a construction worker, truck driver, small business owner who has zero compensation when they don't show up to work, to attend a meeting.

Further, most hunters I know, want to be left the hell alone. And the buisness owners, or employees of them, can't alienate customers with ******* comments. Unlike Buzz, they don't have government to guarantee their livelihood, they have to always watch what they say, and what they fight for, because their families depend on it.

So when they do show up, or support, and a prick like him is out in front running his mouth, it comes back at them. Buzz, is federally protected. Bob the HVAC guy, has to answer for his support with a paycheck, or lack of.

Yes. Buzz shows up. But so do others. And the sacrifice to do so, isn't the same. Further. Most folks, hate know it alls. Hate loud mouths. Hate experts. That's the group WE need to help out.

I care less about tags in Wyoming. They decided they don't want me by pricing not just me, but my kids out.

But wolves, grizzlies, etc, don't recognize the Utah border. The elk WE raise and feed all year, jump the fence and winter in Wyoming. We have at least a shared interest.

But no one, short of a couple dudes, will stand with a guy that is a a douche.


Even Founder has tired of his crap and is calling him out.
 
“True wilderness-like”??? Odd phrasing. But what is even more odd is that WY has overtly PREVENTED more new (or old, or in-between) hunters from experiencing wilderness hunts than all the other Rocky Mtn western states combined. I can hunt wilderness anytime I have a tag elsewhere. No wilderness big game hunting for me or you in WY unless we pay to play or get a resident invite.
You can bird hunt, trap, fish, predator hunt, hike, bird watch, etc. etc.

But yeah, the wilderness guide law is no good, no argument there.
 
Buzz, that's exciting to hear that you agree with everyone else that the wilderness guide law is bogus. I'm also sure most of us also agree outfitter set aside tags is also bogus! Just another way to promote outfitter welfare!
 
We all are aware that nonres currently fund 77% versus Wyo res fund 17% of the WG&F total license revenue. Some of you may not be aware, but another large chunk of the WG&F overall budget for wildlife habitat projects is generated through large grants. These large grants are created and funded by large organizations like the RMEF, MDF, and RMBSS.

Guess what? A large number of those group’s members are nonresident hunters! What happens if nonresident support decreases across the entire US as nonres opportunity throughout the West for hunting declines? Who is going to be forced to pick up the pieces and funding for similar projects 20 to 50 years from now if nonresident interest and opportunity fades away? As was mentioned before, Wyo's population is diminutive compared to other neighboring states like Colorado and Utah. I can pretty much guarantee that Wyoming residents will be forced to somehow pick up the slack! Grant funding members that dole out large sums of $ for wildlife base projects are also likely going to offer that funding to states like Colorado that offer more nonres opportunity and interest from their nonres members.

Go ahead Wyoming, cut your own throats by cutting off the hands that feed you! Wyo may want to consider long-term impacts this may have on budgets and their boom and bust economy! Is it really worth it for the sake of a handful of additional limited draw tags that basically do nothing to increase draw odds for high demand tags and basically rob Wyoming of $ that could be devoted to habitat improvement projects that benefit wildlife?

Here’s a prime example of what will likely disappear if nonres opportunity is sliced with the loss of nonresident interest in big game hunting in Wyoming.

 
Here’s a prime example of what will likely disappear if nonres opportunity is sliced with the loss of nonresident interest in big game hunting in Wyoming.

How have Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Arizona, and Utah survived with 90/10?
 
Buzz, that's exciting to hear that you agree with everyone else that the wilderness guide law is bogus. I'm also sure most of us also agree outfitter set aside tags is also bogus! Just another way to promote outfitter welfare!
The wilderness guide is a bad law, but it does give Resident hunters a place to escape the high pitched, and constant NR whining, crying and sobbing.

Plus, I can sign off for my NR friends and family that don't cry about Wyoming treating them so poorly.

The outfitter tags, meh...they aren't all bad.

Outfitters provide a lot of smiling faces and bring a lot of revenue into Wyoming, jobs, etc.

Isn't that what its all about, smiling faces and local economies? I heard that somewhere from someone, Jim something, starts with an "S", Santos maybe?
 
How have Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Arizona, and Utah survived with 90/10?
Montana is an " up to 10%" state...NR's rarely draw even close to the cap.

I was the only NR to draw a deer permit in an area in Montana last year, which means less than 2% of the tags there went to NR's.

Somehow, I'm sure Montana will survive, the FWP won't be rattling a tin cup, and I doubt a single business will fold shop.
 

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