licensee who can't load their own gun.

[cannonball]

What are your thoughts? Ran on to a 12 year old who had wounded a deer. It was down for the count, but his dad had to load his gun so he could finish it off. Yesterday, a woman, by the side of the road, didn't seem to know much about muzzleloaders, shot at a deer. She missed but had a chance for a second shot and didn't know how to load her muzzleloader. Her husband had to load the gun.

Should the hunter be able to load their own gun?

 

[nfh]

Well depends on the set up for the kid. Maybe he isnt strong enough to seat the bullet. Maybe he cant reload quick like his dad for a 2nd shot. Lot of variables here. Trying to rush a 12 year old being all excited after a shot could lead to issues. Ex. Powder,bullet,shaking, not using caution

As far for the woman i would say thats a lack of training or maybe not willing to do it and depend on the hubby . I will say at least someone was there to help.

My kids are 5 and 9. They shoot multiple calibers. The responsiblity of safe handling and loading is on me to pass onto them. Which starts with a bolt action .22 with a empty casing and learning to handle/load before going to the range.

For the wife it is her responsibility to when she buys a new gun to learn it. Whether from me or someone else. She is an adult. Trust me cause she tells me what to do all the time.

I know my 9 year old if taught could load my muzzy with extreme caution. Trying to load a 2nd shot with a dirty barrel i doubt he has enough power to seat the bullet

 

[elktaker]

Adults should be able to load there own weapon and know all of its functions .

Kids I think anything we can do to get them in the field and successful so loading a kids gun is acceptable in my opinion. Only thing mandatory fir kids is firearms safety.

 

[cannonball]

Let's take it a bit further. Should each hunter be required to carry their own gun or can they have a gun packer until they see a buck?

 

[Shadow]

Let's take it a bit further. Should each hunter be required to carry their own gun or can they have a gun packer until they see a buck?

That’s a good question cannonball and the same question might be asked for a non licensed partner carrying a back up gun. Nothing I’m aware of in the rulebook says a person can’t pack a muzzleloader in the mountains so technically I think it would be legal but I guess it would depend on the perceived intent of a LEO?

 

[cannonball]

Here's what happened to me a few years ago. I wanted to take my 62 cal. flintlock and also my high power rifle to hunt buffalo. I called the DWR and they told me I had to carry both guns myself, but during the hunt this year, the man was carrying his wife's gun. Has the law changed or was he illegal?

 

[Shadow]

I’m not sure if it’s illegal or not but I think they would have to prove intent because there is no law that I’m aware of preventing me from openly carrying a firearm without a hunting license. Maybe I’m wrong and I’m not sure it would be worth the fight to prove innocence but I just don’t see a problem with it. I think the hassle would depend on the game warden and how reasonable he is?

 

[Gator]

I would carry the gun if it was making the KID not enjoy the hunt.
It's about the KID having a good time while young as he got older and stronger he would have to carry his own gun.

 

[HIcountryman]

Wonder if the gov/sportsman's tag holders carry their own?!! Pretty lame for any hunter not to carry their own gun

 

[Bluehair]

I went out without a ramrod one morning this year. I needed a guide that day just like this gal.

 

[Katoom]

I have been carrying and loading my own guns, including muzzleloader, since I was allowed to hunt. Very young kids, or those with disabilities should of course be helped, but otherwise if you can’t handle the weapon needed for the day, you simply need more time before being set loose on an animal. I would guess that there was very little range time, or familiarity, with the guns in question, thus good chance of wounding losses. Polluting this thread with another thing that I worry about in play is the number of men/dads/husbands who proudly talk about putting their kid / wife / girlfriend in the draw or pref point systems for high demand limited entry tags. Again, kids I can see, but I catch a vibe sometimes that it is occassionaly more about the guy and wanting more hunts in those areas than any innate desire by their family member. I don’t EVER hear anyone bragging on here about how their girlfriend, boyfriend, husband, wife, etc “put them in for a tag”. I truly hope that when the time comes for those types, the “man in charge” doesn’t just grab the gun and make the shot “ cause they are getting away.....”

 

[deerkiller]

I hunt with my wife a lot. Muzzleloader and rifle. Doesn’t matter the weapon she’s hunting with, I carry it. For a couple reasons. First, out of respect. My guns that she uses are generally pretty big and heavy. She’s not very big and she hasn’t grown up running around the hills all her life and is use to side hilling with obstacles such as dead fall, shale, snow, ice, mud, cliffs, etc... it’s hard enough for her to get around in it without one hand taken up holding a gun. Second, my guns are expensive. Of course she would never intentionally drop a rifle, but the odds of one hitting the dirt increase when someone else less experienced in moving through tricky terrain, is trying to get themselves and a gun across it. If it’s gonna hit the ground, I’d rather it’s me who dropped. I’m sure she feels the same. If it’s a Muzzleloader, I will always take the hand off to reload it for her if needed. She knows how to work the gun, clean it and load it herself. She’s not as fast as I am at reloading it. For many reasons on that topic, we both agree when at all possible in a hunting scenario when a follow up shot is needed, the gun is handed off to me immediately and I’ll take care of getting another shot ready for her. every year I see 6’ tall 200lb grown men struggle getting Bullets down the barrel for a follow up shot. To expect a smaller built female to do the same task when under pressure and time is crucial, is laughable. The centerfire rifle, once she gets ready to shoot, the rest is up to her. I’m just a spotter at that point.

asking a 12 year old kid to be able to reload his Muzzleloader on his, no exceptions, I’d like asking him to carry his deer out all on his own, in his own backpack. Grown ass men call in several buddies to get a damn deer out that they shot. If a guy can’t get his own deer out, then a kid shouldn’t be expected to load his own weapon.

Last time I checked, this is America, where law abiding citizens are allowed to possess legal firearms, on public and private land. If your intent is to illegally use that gun to kill an animal you aren’t permitted for, then that’s a separate issue. But if you are carrying it for another hunter, whatever the reason may be, there’s no law against that in Utah. You’d have to find the biggest fishdick cop out there to try and push that anywhere, and even with some of utahs meeting that description, I still don’t think there’s many that would even attempt to write a ticket for that as long as all you are doing is carrying it and not actively hunting with it.

 

[deerkiller]

I truly hope that when the time comes for those types, the “man in charge” doesn’t just grab the gun and make the shot “ cause they are getting away.....”

In 2016 I watched the biggest 4x4 typical Muledeer I’ve ever personally seen walk over a ridge at 250 yards as my wife couldn’t find him in the scope again after she shot one over his back standing broadside. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t think about taking the gun from her for a second. Easily could have shot that buck 10 times in the amount of time he gave her to make another shot. But I didn’t, and let him get away because of it.

does it happen? I’m sure it does. But I don’t think it happens as much as many people suspect it does. Too many eyes watching everyone these days. You’d have to be pretty brave to pull that chit on a general hunt where there’s surely someone else within watching distance of you during most of your hunt.

 

[mevertsen]

....Polluting this thread with another thing that I worry about in play is the number of men/dads/husbands who proudly talk about putting their kid / wife / girlfriend in the draw or pref point systems for high demand limited entry tags. Again, kids I can see, but I catch a vibe sometimes that it is occassionaly more about the guy and wanting more hunts in those areas than any innate desire by their family member. I don’t EVER hear anyone bragging on here about how their girlfriend, boyfriend, husband, wife, etc “put them in for a tag”. I truly hope that when the time comes for those types, the “man in charge” doesn’t just grab the gun and make the shot “ cause they are getting away.....”

I see that as well, even as a lot of threads here where the person putting in for the tag is more excited and seems to have more of the focal point than the person with the tag,or the animal itself.

I find myself in that challenge as well with my daughter. I have to continually remind myself that she is a person, and can make a lot of decisions. I need to make sure she has the opportunity to communicate her desires to me, and not rush her on anything.

For this reason, she won't hunt with a muzzle loader at the moment, and I just have to accept that. She likes shooting her bow, but is not big on hunting with it. Its hard to sit back and let her make those decisions.

I need her to soon tell me what deer she wants to go after next month, and try no to let my desires get in the way, as its her tag.

 

[Katoom]

I hunt with my wife a lot. Muzzleloader and rifle. Doesn’t matter the weapon she’s hunting with, I carry it. For a couple reasons. First, out of respect. My guns that she uses are generally pretty big and heavy. She’s not very big and she hasn’t grown up running around the hills all her life and is use to side hilling with obstacles such as dead fall, shale, snow, ice, mud, cliffs, etc... it’s hard enough for her to get around in it without one hand taken up holding a gun. Second, my guns are expensive. Of course she would never intentionally drop a rifle, but the odds of one hitting the dirt increase when someone else less experienced in moving through tricky terrain, is trying to get themselves and a gun across it. If it’s gonna hit the ground, I’d rather it’s me who dropped. I’m sure she feels the same. If it’s a Muzzleloader, I will always take the hand off to reload it for her if needed. She knows how to work the gun, clean it and load it herself. She’s not as fast as I am at reloading it. For many reasons on that topic, we both agree when at all possible in a hunting scenario when a follow up shot is needed, the gun is handed off to me immediately and I’ll take care of getting another shot ready for her.

hi deerkiller. its commendable that you led in your comments about helping your wife out of respect. helping for the right reasons is always a good start. And if she is smaller in stature I agree muzzleloading can be tough, and many guys can’t do it well also. but you also said she knows how to work it, clean it, and load it. you also said another thing that stood out, that “my guns are heavy...”. So I have a couple very presumptuous, out of my lane requests for you. 1st, consider if this is right time to look into encouraging your wife to pick out a new gun that fits her size, carrying ability, hunting style and tastes. 2nd, ask her if she prefers muzzleloader hunting in the first place or wants to stick with rifle. And finally, ask her if she truly wants the well-intentioned help or down deep desires to do it herself. She may be reluctant to ask for her own gun since you already have them, and maybe she feels bad or self conscious that she is not as adept as you. I truly respect your statement of respect for your wife, but sometimes as men we get a bit clouded about protecting them from themselves, and maybe we take over a bit too much which could, over time, diminish their experience. Of course don’t worry one second over a message board comment, easier just to ask HER!

 

[deerkiller]

hi deerkiller. its commendable that you led in your comments about helping your wife out of respect. helping for the right reasons is always a good start. And if she is smaller in stature I agree muzzleloading can be tough, and many guys can’t do it well also. but you also said she knows how to work it, clean it, and load it. you also said another thing that stood out, that “my guns are heavy...”. So I have a couple very presumptuous, out of my lane requests for you. 1st, consider if this is right time to look into encouraging your wife to pick out a new gun that fits her size, carrying ability, hunting style and tastes. 2nd, ask her if she prefers muzzleloader hunting in the first place or wants to stick with rifle. And finally, ask her if she truly wants the well-intentioned help or down deep desires to do it herself. She may be reluctant to ask for her own gun since you already have them, and maybe she feels bad or self conscious that she is not as adept as you. I truly respect your statement of respect for your wife, but sometimes as men we get a bit clouded about protecting them from themselves, and maybe we take over a bit too much which could, over time, diminish their experience. Of course don’t worry one second over a message board comment, easier just to ask HER!

We’ve discussed your points at length several times. She’s expressed the same point many guys wives have made before that “we already have enough guns”. So adding another muzzy to the pile isn’t really on the table. She’s an opportunist. She just likes hunting, especially elk. She doesn’t care which weapon she uses, she just wants to go. We get the available tags that work that year given our schedule and time available. Her and I have a very open line of communication. If she doesn’t feel right about something or has a different opinion on a subject, she has no issues voicing her feelings on the subject. When I overstep my place, she doesn’t hesitate one second to make it known that I’ve done so. Through the years she’s learned several times the hard way that time is crucial in a hunting scenario and often leads to the difference between a cut tag or tag soup. She came up with the idea of me helping her when possible and time is very important. If she felt differently, she would certainly tell me about it

 

[cannonball]

I don't know for sure, but I suspect the wife I mentioned got pushed into it by her husband. When I stopped, it is amazing what comes out of people's mouths. The husband talked and the wife just rolled her eyes. She was very apologetic to me mind you. Lifted her eye off of the scope before she even fired. When I stopped they were even questioning whether they were on private property. I eased their concern. I think everybody north of the Payson-Dixon line was down here. They reduced the tag number and there was still way to many hunters on the mountain. I guess that is because half of the mountain is lacking deer where there used to be many.

 

[mossback50cal]

Let's take it a bit further. Should each hunter be required to carry their own gun or can they have a gun packer until they see a buck?

That would then eliminate A LOT of kids from hunting. I don’t understand how people come on here judging other people. Maybe there is a reason the wife didn’t load it. Maybe she is very new to hunting and can’t load it. For me, as long as they are the actual shooter, and are safe with the gun, more power to them. As far as carrying two guns, that’s a different story. I understand the reasoning on the buffalo hunt. But I have seen a father son combo here in NM, on a primitive hunt, have one license and carrying two guns. Couldn’t get a game warden out to check them of course.

 

[cannonball]

Hey, I have no problem with it. I am just asking the question. I do have a problem with a person not shooting enough to be accurate with their weapon. As I see it today there are several who just want to hunt, even if it is a spouse or youngster who rarely has shot the rifle or bow. The only thing they have done is passed hunters safety, so ol' dad, husband, or whoever puts them in for the draw so the main dog can go hunting. That's my beef.

 

[Idahoron]

Wonder if the gov/sportsman's tag holders carry their own?!! Pretty lame for any hunter not to carry their own gun

I carried my dads rifle at times, and I carried his day pack most of the time. I would have carried him if I could. My did didn't start hunting until he was in is 60's. I also remember my friends also helping carrying my dads stuff when they were with us.

Before he died he didn't know if he should. He was awful weak and in the picture it shows.

It might be lame but If I had the chance to carry his gun one more time I would do it in a heart beat.

 

[mossback50cal]

I agree with the accuracy part. I would rather see ol dad husband or whoever attempting to get them hooked on outdoors over the alternative. The more hunters we have, the better.

 

[freaknasty]

During my time as a guide, I have had to carry guns and packs for what should be an able bodied person to carry.
maybe I'm a nice guy ( some people say NOT) but I did it.
I also carried the rifle for my pregnant wife (A LITTLE) for her OIL elk hunt not a prob.
so should you have to pack your own animal out because its yours???
I get it there is a line out there and you gotta wonder are the parents or guardians of these youngsters just out there to hunt with the kids tags. IT HAPPENS
lets not split hairs and help the youth enjoy it for all its worth. We need to be great stewards and mentors to all sportsmen.

( I assume we are talking about western hunts not going out to the blind or tree stand)

 

[mossback50cal]

Exactly freaknasty. As long as the licensee is actually shooting, what is wrong with someone helping reload, or carrying the gun.

 

[HIcountryman]

I carried my dads rifle at times, and I carried his day pack most of the time. I would have carried him if I could. My did didn't start hunting until he was in is 60's. I also remember my friends also helping carrying my dads stuff when they were with us.

Before he died he didn't know if he should. He was awful weak and in the picture it shows.

It might be lame but If I had the chance to carry his gun one more time I would do it in a heart beat.

i hear you ron. i guess it is not lame in all circumstances. sorry for my terse comments

 

[FrontierGander]

i used to watch my brother in law very carefully when i got him into muzzleloading. Sometimes the safer bet with a new hunter/shooter is to load it for them to ensure the projectile is seated and safe to shoot. There are times I'll even reload my brothers gun or even my dads in fear that they will snap their wooden ramrod.

 

[cannonball]

Here is my wife's muzzleloader deer. She carried the gun all of the time. It had open sights and a side hammer Leman trade rifle with a Green River 45 caliber slow twist round ball barrel. It shot an elongated bullet with fantastic accuracy which is unheard of with a 1 in 60" twist. You know one of those guns that one would see in the 1800's and yes I did load it for her and I was her tri-pod carrier.