Lifetime License auction

With the way some you of act, I hope they do - do away with the LL and go all LE units and then you dont get your "GUARANTEED" general season deer tag, LOL!!!! You are all the same ones that would say that there is only 3000 deer tags left in Utah and WE get them, cuz its Merika and they promised it to us!!

All I can do is laugh at the arguments. One person asks to see the documents just so see the language and then you call them complainers, lol.
 
With the way some you of act, I hope they do - do away with the LL and go all LE units and then you dont get your "GUARANTEED" general season deer tag, LOL!!!! You are all the same ones that would say that there is only 3000 deer tags left in Utah and WE get them, cuz its Merika and they promised it to us!!

All I can do is laugh at the arguments. One person asks to see the documents just so see the language and then you call them complainers, lol.
Are you saying that if you had a LL tag you would be for the change you are suggesting? I would bet that is not the case whether you admit it or not.

I sure would take one if it was for sale for a reasonable amount.
 
I would take one in a heart beat. I passed on it way back then. But, I also have a side of reality that times have changed. Seasons have changed. If there isnt any general season tags left, then there isnt any general season tags left. Pretty simple.

Here is a question......

If people get what they want with eliminating so many tags all in the name of bigger bucks even though it will not help the deer herd, only grow bigger bucks, not more, and all the units will be 5-7 point units or more....... Is it OK that you jump to the front of the line every year and get pick of the litter?
 
I would take one in a heart beat. I passed on it way back then. But, I also have a side of reality that times have changed. Seasons have changed. If there isnt any general season tags left, then there isnt any general season tags left. Pretty simple.

Here is a question......

If people get what they want with eliminating so many tags all in the name of bigger bucks even though it will not help the deer herd, only grow bigger bucks, not more, and all the units will be 5-7 point units or more....... Is it OK that you jump to the front of the line every year and get pick of the litter?
Understand your point completely and appreciate you explaining your side. I think the state of Utah will surely ruffle some feathers if they try to amend their deal/contract with the LL holders.

And to answer your question:
Is it OK that you jump to the front of the line every year and get pick of the litter? Absolutely, if the breeder gives you a contract stating you can have pick of litter every year.
 
I would take one in a heart beat. I passed on it way back then. But, I also have a side of reality that times have changed. Seasons have changed. If there isnt any general season tags left, then there isnt any general season tags left. Pretty simple.

Here is a question......

If people get what they want with eliminating so many tags all in the name of bigger bucks even though it will not help the deer herd, only grow bigger bucks, not more, and all the units will be 5-7 point units or more....... Is it OK that you jump to the front of the line every year and get pick of the litter?
Lifetime license holders are a mere 3,000 sportsmen. If the public demands bigger bucks and are willing to accept fewer tags, it's not all our doing, it's more so the doing of the other 100,000 or so sportsmen in the state. Why should I have my tag taken from me and sold a 2nd time to someone else because other people demand fewer tags? I'm fine with the tag numbers as they are.

If sportsmen in this state want to maintain their opportunity, then it should come at their cost, not mine. Maybe they should pick up a bow instead of a long range rifle. Or maybe they should be happy with smaller bucks. Or maybe close roads and allow bucks to grow up. There are many things that should come before regening on a deal with lifetime license holders. When tags numbers reach 5,000, then we'll talk about me giving my tag back to be sold to someone else.

I bought a lifetime deer tag and don't think I should lose it so that it can be sold a 2nd time to someone else. The UDWR needs to find a way to provide what they've already sold me and please whatever new customers they want to take on.

The state made a commitment to me and I committed $500 to them. We both made a choice. I'm not asking for my $500 back and they shouldn't take back my deer tag back. Had the world gone another way, there could be unlimited deer available with tags costing $5 and I'd have been on the short end of the deal. It didn't.
 
Founder, did they make a commitment to you for a general season deer tag? Or a LE deer tag? What if all they offered you was a doe tag? Would you be OK with that? Its a deer tag, right?
 
Instead of limiting weapons or putting restrictions on them, let’s level the playing field and close all access roads and 2 tracks during the hunting season. If it’s not paved, you’re walking. That’ll help save bucks from getting killed, grow bigger deer and everyone has the same opportunity. They all have the same advantage.
 
Sounds like there needs to be a state wide vote for all hunters to voice what direction utah “general” deer hunting needs to take. And you can only vote if you’ve bought 5 years worth of consecutive hunting licenses in the state. That’ll weed out the antis and guys who haven’t participated long enough to have a dog in the fight.
 
Don't stomp your feet and expect "fair". We have a whole political party for that one.

We all just play by the rules and live with it.... or should I say, you have to live without it when it comes to the lifetime licenses? ....and you're making it abundantly clear that you'll continue whining.

We've established with 100% certainty that the 3000 LL, which have been issued, have nothing to do with real deer conservation/management. It's just something that offends the petty when someone has something and they don't.

Please don't try to mascaraed your arguments by parading them as "conservation" and quit with the "what-ifs". It becomes laughable.

Be honest, take a deep breath and simply say "You have something and I don't and I want to take it away from you and redistribute the wealth"! Sound familiar?

Zeke
 
Founder, did they make a commitment to you for a general season deer tag? Or a LE deer tag? What if all they offered you was a doe tag? Would you be OK with that? Its a deer tag, right?
I think it's quite clear as to what I and they believe we both committed to, and that's a buck deer tag every year for the rest of my life for $500. I paid and they've been giving it for 27 years. That's pretty strong evidence of what they committed to.

I suppose they could play games with name changes and doe tags and such, but I'd imagine those if power are professionals who aren't going to play games to try and screw people with silly name changes and such. I don't see professionals doing business like that. Plus, those in power probably don't have a horse in the race, so they'll likely do the right thing versus the renege on agreement angle to take something back they've already sold and sale it a 2nd time to someone else who wants the world to be more fair to them.

If, and it's a super big "IF" it ever even became a topic that decision makers begin talking about, then no I wouldn't be OK with a doe tag. Nor would I be OK with a silly trick of changing the name from "general" to anything else in an effort to get out of an agreement.
 
Sounds like there needs to be a state wide vote for all hunters to voice what direction utah “general” deer hunting needs to take. And you can only vote if you’ve bought 5 years worth of consecutive hunting licenses in the state. That’ll weed out the antis and guys who haven’t participated long enough to have a dog in the fight.
Delta,
Quit making sense! This thread isn't about management. It's about the fact that some guys have a lifetime license and some guys don't and the latter either want one for themselves or want no one to have them. Simple
 
The only time I’ve ever heard of anyone wanting to get rid of LL, is on here. There seems to be a few guys acting childish, wanting things to be “fair” for everyone, which would ultimately end up with things not being fair for the guys who committed to paying the $500 fee upfront many years ago.

Utah has done some stupid things in the past, but trying to pull the LL deal from guys isn’t something I see them doing.
 
Jake called his shot early on in these threads when he predicted that if you question how lifetime licenses should be handled in light of the drastic changes over the last three decades, people will jump all over you and accuse you of being a whiny child. He was 100% correct — likely based upon prior experience on this forum. ?

Nobody posting here is a decision maker or has any actual control over these issues. I’ve already told you that I believe change is coming and it is a matter of time before this issue comes to a head. So I guess I will just sit back, wait and see what happens. And when that day comes, some of us will smile and chuckle as we think back up on our attempt to have a conversation about the issue. Good luck boys and hold on tight!
 
Sure Elkster. Yank it! My wife is probably sick of me anyway.

Now answer me a question: If your sweet wife promised to grill you a hamburger every day for the rest of your life, but some years later there is a burger crisis and hamburger is no longer available, are you automatically entitled to filet mignon every day? I too can conjure up ridiculous analogies. ?
 
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DAMN SURE AM!:D

Only Thing Good is the Berger Is Managed Better than Our Wildlife!

I Don't See one of These LifeTimers Screaming for an LE Tag?

Sure Elkster. Yank it! My wife is probably sick of me anyway.

Now answer me a question: If your sweet wife promised to grill you a hamburger every day for the rest of your life, but some years later there is a burger crisis and hamburger is no longer available, are you automatically entitled to filet mignon every day? ?
 
There isn't one person here that is complaining about lifetime licenses who wouldn't go back in time and buy one today if they were able to, Not one.

Since the original question I posted hasn't been answered I'll ask it differently. If 100 or even 1,000 lifetime licenses were available and auctioned off by SFW what kind of money would you expect them to bring?
It would be a ridiculous amount for sure
 
DAMN SURE AM!:D

Only Thing Good is the Berger Is Managed Better than Our Wildlife!

I Don't See one of These LifeTimers Screaming for an LE Tag?
True.

just like you won’t see the majority of deer hunters in utah screaming for a LE draw on everything deer hunting. Only a select few. I’d bet those select few struggle killing a decent deer every once in awhile. So they figure to make it more of a possibility for them to do it in the future, is limit the general opportunities in hopes some bucks will artificially make it to an older age class that they might stumble in to at some point down the road.

nothing I’ve seen mentioned here helps create more wildlife or hunting opportunities. It does the opposite. Good thing utah isn’t too worried about people’s feelings at the moment.
 
So I guess I will just sit back, wait and see what happens. And when that day comes, some of us will smile and chuckle as we think back up on our attempt to have a conversation about the issue. Good luck boys and hold on tight!
So you want conversation or sweet revenge so that the damn few of us lose out?
You’ve done nothing but go out of your way to make your opinion known and I have no doubt that you’ll continue well beyond this site.
I suppose you’re welcome to take pleasure in our loss but you’re showing your true colors.
Pretty sad Mr Hawkeye!
Zeke
 
Mr. Zeke-

Sweet revenge for what? I’ve always considered you and others on this site to be friends even though we’ve disagreed on a number of issues. I have no axe to grind with you or anyone else. Toughen up buddy and stop being a martyr.

I am sincerely interested in this issue but I don’t have a dog in the fight. As I said before, I see both sides of the issue and if I had any say in the matter (which I don’t), I would look for some middle ground compromise. I’ve never advocated for outrightly canceling lifetime licenses but I also recognize that there really are not any “general season” hunts anymore — and that situation will only continue to get worse. You lifetime license guys have very thin skin. If there is a change that affects lifetime licenses, I will not take pleasure in your loss . . . but I would find it entertaining that you guys refused to even consider the other side of the issue.

Hawkeye
 
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Come on Hawkeye!

You've been HARPING on a few different Things Lately!

A COUPLE HINTS:

Scopes on SmokePoles Ain't the Only Reason Our Deer Herd is in PISS POOR Shape!

The Lifetime License Holders are Not the Reason Our Deer Herd is in PISS POOR Shape Neither!

We've Hashed The SmokePole Scopes Out already!

I'll Give Mine up willingly!

But Restrictions/Changes on All Weapons Change/Happen the Same Day!

Then When You get about 49 other Changes made (Excluding Lifetimers) We Might be getting somewhere!

The Changes Showing Up are Happening/Happened Way Faster than You are ever going to get them reversed!

But Please Hurry!

I Expect the 2021 TARDville General PISSCUTTER Hunt to be Phenomenal!











Mr. Zeke-

Sweet revenge for what? I’ve always considered you and others on this site to be friends even though we’ve disagreed on a number of issues. I have no axe to grind with you or anyone else. Toughen up buddy and stop being a martyr.

I am sincerely interested in this issue but I don’t have a dog in the fight. As I said before, I see both sides of the issue and if I had any say in the matter (which I don’t), I would look for some middle ground compromise. I’ve never advocated for outrightly canceling lifetime licenses but I also recognize that there really are not any “general season” hunts anymore — and that situation will only continue to get worse. You lifetime license guys have very thin skin. If there is a change that affects lifetime licenses, I will not take pleasure in your loss . . . but I would find it entertaining that you guys refused to even consider the other side of the issue.

Hawkeye
 
Elkster, what I’ve learned from these posts is that nobody wants to see any changes that affect them personally and the way they hunt. As I said before, I muzzleloader hunt, I archery hunt, and I rifle hunt. That being said, I know that there will be changes in the future that impact how I hunt and how often I hunt. Given the poor condition of our deer herds and the fact things gradually keep getting worse, change is inevitable. Even if we do nothing, most of us (and our kids) will hunt less often as out BP and PP systems continue to back up. We can bury our heads in the sand and cling to the status quo or we can discuss reasonable compromises and alternatives. Two things are for sure, “HELL RIGHT” is not going to happen and the DWR is not going to magically figure out how to double our herds over night.

Hawkeye
 
And Hawkeye!

You've Heard My Voice for Decades now!

Was anything Done to Improve the Herd?

Notta!

(((We've Done Lots of Things to Destroy it Though!)))

Sad that it would Take 'HELL-RIGHT' To Fix it!

But Here the HELL We are!


Elkster, what I’ve learned from these posts is that nobody wants to see any changes that affect them personally and the way they hunt. As I said before, I muzzleloader hunt, I archery hunt, and I rifle hunt. That being said, I know that there will be changes in the future that impact how I hunt and how often I hunt. Given the poor condition of our deer herds and the fact things gradually keep getting worse, change is inevitable. Even if we do nothing, most of us (and our kids) will hunt less often as out BP and PP systems continue to back up. We can bury our heads in the sand and cling to the status quo or we can discuss reasonable compromises and alternatives. Two things are for sure, “HELL RIGHT” is not going to happen and the DWR is not going to magically figure out how to double our herds over night.

Hawkeye
 
Mr. Zeke-

Sweet revenge for what? I’ve always considered you and others on this site to be friends even though we’ve disagreed on a number of issues. I have no axe to grind with you or anyone else. Toughen up buddy and stop being a martyr.

I am sincerely interested in this issue but I don’t have a dog in the fight. As I said before, I see both sides of the issue and if I had any say in the matter (which I don’t), I would look for some middle ground compromise. I’ve never advocated for outrightly canceling lifetime licenses but I also recognize that there really are not any “general season” hunts anymore — and that situation will only continue to get worse. You lifetime license guys have very thin skin. If there is a change that affects lifetime licenses, I will not take pleasure in your loss . . . but I would find it entertaining that you guys refused to even consider the other side of the issue.

Hawkeye
I just don’t think that while the state still issues nearly 100k deer tags every year (regardless of what they call them) that talking about taking deer tags away from a few thousand aging hunters who already bought them should even be considered enough to try and find any “middle ground compromise” now.

There are so many other things that can be done before trying to screw a few of us out of a deer tag we’ve already bought. That’s my opinion anyway.

I have no interest in trying to find compromise on how I can lose the tag I already bought so that it can be sold to someone else. My push back is that it shouldn’t even be on the list yet. If it came up as a topic with the UDWR, I’d be at RAC and board meetings saying the same thing. There’s many other things that should happen BEFORE this should even be talked about.

When we reach the point in my lifetime when there are less than 10k deer tags available in this state, then I may agree that a compromise may need to be reached with the few LL holders still alive. But I don’t foresee that anytime soon. Maybe in 30 years. JMO
 
I'd like to see them offered again. Give those that were too young, or not even alive back in 1994 the opportunity to have the same benefits of the LL. According to some random inflation calculator on the net $500 in 1994 is $893.65 today. Open it back up for a limited time, giving all the opportunity to purchase it. For new hunters give them a period of time after receiving their first deer tag to purchase the LL at the going rate.
 
So whats the diffence then a 12 year old kid that hasn't been able to apply for any points and it takes him 5 years to draw a tag. It seems only far that people with more points should give them up as well so a first timer has a chance the first year. No different then a LL holder. Bad move by the division to sell them in the first place but here we are and they only make up 5% of the total tags.
 
I just don’t think that while the state still issues nearly 100k deer tags every year (regardless of what they call them) that talking about taking deer tags away from a few thousand aging hunters who already bought them should even be considered enough to try and find any “middle ground compromise” now.

There are so many other things that can be done before trying to screw a few of us out of a deer tag we’ve already bought. That’s my opinion anyway.

I have no interest in trying to find compromise on how I can lose the tag I already bought so that it can be sold to someone else. My push back is that it shouldn’t even be on the list yet. If it came up as a topic with the UDWR, I’d be at RAC and board meetings saying the same thing. There’s many other things that should happen BEFORE this should even be talked about.

When we reach the point in my lifetime when there are less than 10k deer tags available in this state, then I may agree that a compromise may need to be reached with the few LL holders still alive. But I don’t foresee that anytime soon. Maybe in 30 years. JMO
Talk about the most selfish thing I have ever read. And that coming from "Mr. Mule Deer" himself!!! Shows peoples true colors. Screw all of you, as long as I have the last deer tag. Or as long as I shoot the last buck in Utah! SMDH!!!!
 
Talk about the most selfish thing I have ever read. And that coming from "Mr. Mule Deer" himself!!! Shows peoples true colors. Screw all of you, as long as I have the last deer tag. Or as long as I shoot the last buck in Utah! SMDH!!!!
I guess if selfish is expecting to receive something I already paid for, then I’m selfish.

I’m selfishly expecting Amazon to send me new shoes and gloves this week that I’ve paid for. Hopefully they don’t want me to give them back so they can sale them a 2nd time to someone else.

I think it’s humorous that some think I and others should be WANTING to give our tags back so that others can have it instead. Tags we already bought!! Not me man! I like to hunt and want and expect the tag I’ve done paid for.
Selfish me.....I’ll live with it.
 
Talk about the most selfish thing I have ever read. And that coming from "Mr. Mule Deer" himself!!! Shows peoples true colors. Screw all of you, as long as I have the last deer tag. Or as long as I shoot the last buck in Utah! SMDH!!!!
How is that selfish at all? Founder never said anything about having the last deer tag. That one belongs to me ? and you took the words right out of my mouth: "screw all of you":eek: (sarcasm of course)

Anyway it is what it is. I don't care what anyone else has nor do I want it for myself. Some people look ahead and buy the right property or stocks, marry the girl whose father is filthy rich or just happen to be in the right place at the right time. Good for them.

For the record I'm fine with shutting down roads, making the muzzleloader sidelock or flintlock with roundball only. Recurve or longbow only for the archery hunt and iron sights with a max velocity of 2,600 fps for the any weapon hunts. I would also outlaw trail cams and hunting guides. There would be no auction tags. The DWRs only directive would be to manage for wildlife/fisheries and manage for poaching and illegal hunting activities. Imagine the bucks and bulls that would be running around them. I would also limit deer tags to 3,000 a year.:eek:

For those of you who don't draw a tag, better luck next year and I'll be thinking of you while I'm up on the mountain.:cool:
 
Take the Lifetime Tags away & You're Gonna See 3,000 Law Suits!

Mark My F'N word on it!
What if they offered a refund? We sold you something we can no longer provide. Here is your $500 back.

This problem ranks pretty low on the list of Utah's mule deer troubles, just above healthy people applying for crossbow permits.
 
When they first came out I was going to purchase one and Utah finest DWR told me over the phone that I would be guaranteed a permit, but may not be guaranteed the area I want. They went on to say that in the future I might be required to list several preferences areas. That never came to pass - YET!
 
Many here are making the argument that times have changed so the rules for LL need to change. I wonder what your response is when that same argument is used to try and take your right to bear arms. I'm guessing you don't see that quite the same way.

Proud owner of the last Lifetime License sold in the State of Utah.
 
Bobby, I would not pay much if anything for a lifetime license because there really aren’t any “general units” anymore and I suspect that change is likely coming.

As a sidenote, these threads peaked my interest into reviewing some of the drastic changes that have taken place with deer management in Utah over the last 30 years. Here are some highlights:

-1977-1992: Utah averaged over 200K hunters afield with over-the-counter general season tags every year.
-1984: Utah first starts selling lifetime licenses for $500.
-1988: Nearly 250K hunters afield with over-the-counter general season tags.
-1994: UTAH STOPS SELLING LIFETIME LICENSES IN MARCH 1994.
-1994: Over-the-counter deer permits capped for the first time at 97K across 5 general season regions.
-1995: Utah adopts the first state wide deer management plan that calls for 15 bucks per 100 does.
-2000: Utah ends over-the-counter sales of general season tags and moved to a drawing process.
-2005: Cap on general season deer tags reduced to 95K to be issued though Utah’s drawing process.
-2012: Utah moves away from 5 General regions in favor of 29 micro units.
-2019: Only 90K general deer permits issued under Utah’s unit management system.
-2021: Less than 75K general season permits to be issued though Utah’s drawing process.

Since 1994, Utah has capped the sale of general season deer tags, eliminated 2/3 of its general season deer tags, eliminated over-the-counter tags and moved to a drawing process, and eliminated the general regions in favor of 29 micro units. As I said in prior posts, the only constant over the last 30 years has been change and all of these changes have reduced our opportunity to hunt deer. I expect to see more changes in the future that limit the way we hunt and how often we hunt. At some point, I believe this will lead to a serious debate about lifetime licenses and whether we even have any “general season” deer units anymore.

What changes do you guys see coming down the pipe in the next 5 to 10 years?

Hawkeye
 
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Bobby, I would not pay much if anything for a lifetime license because there really aren’t any “general units” anymore and I suspect that change is likely coming.

As a sidenote, these threads peaked my interest into reviewing some of the drastic changes that have taken place with deer management in Utah over the last 30 years. Here are some highlights:

-1977-1992: Utah averaged over 200K hunters afield with over-the-

Do You Really Think Our Deer Herd can Take another 5-10 Years of Poor Management?

And Read Post # 138!

Then Re-Read Post # 138 again!




counter general season tags every year.
-1984: Utah first starts selling lifetime licenses for $500.
-1988: Nearly 250K hunters afield with over-the-counter general season tags.
-1994: UTAH STOPS SELLING LIFETIME LICENSES IN MARCH 1994.
-1994: Over-the-counter deer permits capped for the first time at 97K across 5 general season regions.
-1995: Utah adopts the first state wide deer management plan that calls for 15 bucks per 100 does.
-2000: Utah ends over-the-counter sales of general season tags and moved to a drawing process.
-2005: Cap on general season deer tags reduced to 95K to be issued though Utah’s drawing process.
-2012: Utah moves away from 5 General regions in favor of 29 micro units.
-2019: Only 90K general deer permits issued under Utah’s unit management system.
-2021: Less than 75K general season permits to be issued though Utah’s drawing process.

Since 1994, Utah has capped the sale of general season deer tags, eliminated 2/3 of its general season deer tags, eliminated over-the-counter tags and moved to a drawing process, and eliminated the general regions in favor of 29 micro units. As I said in prior posts, the only constant over the last 30 years has been change and all of these changes have reduced our opportunity to hunt deer. I expect to see more changes in the future that limit the way we hunt and how often we hunt. At some point, I believe this will lead to a serious debate about lifetime licenses and whether we even have any “general season” deer units anymore.

What changes do you guys see coming down the pipe in the next 5 to 10 years?

Hawkeye
 
BigJohn, you’re about 700 ahead of me in the number, and we purchased the same month. I couldn’t even deer hunt yet. Best investment I’ve ever made!

Thank goodness for that stupid paper route I picked up when I was 8 years old. Cruising around the neighborhood every day on my bike with the paper bags wrapped around the handles for 4+ years was worth it even if only for this one thing.
 
Bobby, I would not pay much if anything for a lifetime license because there really aren’t any “general units” anymore and I suspect that change is likely coming.

As a sidenote, these threads peaked my interest into reviewing some of the drastic changes that have taken place with deer management in Utah over the last 30 years. Here are some highlights:

-1977-1992: Utah averaged over 200K hunters afield with over-the-counter general season tags every year.
-1984: Utah first starts selling lifetime licenses for $500.
-1988: Nearly 250K hunters afield with over-the-counter general season tags.
-1994: UTAH STOPS SELLING LIFETIME LICENSES IN MARCH 1994.
-1994: Over-the-counter deer permits capped for the first time at 97K across 5 general season regions.
-1995: Utah adopts the first state wide deer management plan that calls for 15 bucks per 100 does.
-2000: Utah ends over-the-counter sales of general season tags and moved to a drawing process.
-2005: Cap on general season deer tags reduced to 95K to be issued though Utah’s drawing process.
-2012: Utah moves away from 5 General regions in favor of 29 micro units.
-2019: Only 90K general deer permits issued under Utah’s unit management system.
-2021: Less than 75K general season permits to be issued though Utah’s drawing process.

Since 1994, Utah has capped the sale of general season deer tags, eliminated 2/3 of its general season deer tags, eliminated over-the-counter tags and moved to a drawing process, and eliminated the general regions in favor of 29 micro units. As I said in prior posts, the only constant over the last 30 years has been change and all of these changes have reduced our opportunity to hunt deer. I expect to see more changes in the future that limit the way we hunt and how often we hunt. At some point, I believe this will lead to a serious debate about lifetime licenses and whether we even have any “general season” deer units anymore.

What changes do you guys see coming down the pipe in the next 5 to 10 years?

Hawkeye
Haweye
I know a few people that have the Lifetime License and they are the least of our worries between all 6 of them i know the total deer they have Harvested was 28 if anything those 6 have saved deer.
I think there won't be too much more cutting tags They have enough Data to show what is going on now.
We need to pull out of the drought where in if there isn't enough feed we need to keep the deer in check cutting tags would be Devastating.
I think if we want more deer then we need to get rid of some LE elk units and open them up to General Season Elk we don't have a problem growing them.
Like the DWR said Too many Mouth's on the Landscape and that is one animal that has thrived over the years is elk. The quality has gone down hill on elk but that's a whole different deal here.
 
Do You Really Think Our Deer Herd can Take another 5-10 Years of Poor Management?

Elkster, have I ever advocated for “another 5-10 years of poor management?”

I am not happy with the consistent decline of our deer herds over the last 50 years but that trend is consistent in every western state. Nobody has been able to crack the code on how to consistently grow our mule deer herds despite years of research, thousands of conservation permits and tens of millions of dollars in research and habitat improvement.

Elkster, have you suddenly figured out the secret? Last time I checked, you could not even identify the top 3 changes you would make to help our deer herds. Me personally, I believe their are many factors contributing to the decline of mule deer some of which we can address (degradation of habitat, fencing highways, etc.), some of which are totally beyond our control (weather, drought, etc.), and some of the solutions are not even politically feasible (poisoning predators, aggressively managing wild horses, etc.). Therefore, I predict that we will continue to invest significant time and money trying to help our deer herds but the reality is that their numbers will continue to decline. I hope I am wrong but I seriously doubt it.

Just to be clear once again, I am not suggesting that lifetime license holders are contributing to the decline of our mule deer herds. There are numerous other factors that are causing that problem. I am merely noting that as our deer numbers continue to decline, and as additional hunters come into the system and apply for those limited tags, this will lead to additional changes, including more discussion about how to handle lifetime licenses in light of the fact that there really are not any “general units” anymore.

Hawkeye
 
BigJohn, you’re about 700 ahead of me in the number, and we purchased the same month. I couldn’t even deer hunt yet. Best investment I’ve ever made!

Thank goodness for that stupid paper route I picked up when I was 8 years old. Cruising around the neighborhood every day on my bike with the paper bags wrapped around the handles for 4+ years was worth it even if only for this one thing.
So much for the theory that all lifetimers are old and going to kick the bucket any day. I know of a few guys down south that bought lifetime tags for infant son Smith. The wild life worker said just bring their social security number when they get one and we will put it on their license. I know vanilla is a young man. I wonder if there is a way to find out the youngest LL holder. It is one of the best gifts I have ever received ! My dad EZ Money bought one for my brother and myself along with his license . The State of Utah has done a good job honoring our tags for the last 37 years. Just hoping the trend continues ! Life time license's matter . LTLM we will have to start a movement ! All of us LL holders will have to line up at the capitol in our well chairs. :)
 
Is every area that was a general area when the LL was purchased still available to hunt on a general tag or LL? If not did the LL holders complain when areas/units got changed from general to LE?

Couldn't the entire state go LE besides 1-2 units. Leave those units open for LL holders only? That way LL holders get their tag every year and Utah has one draw system for deer.
 
Is every area that was a general area when the LL was purchased still available to hunt on a general tag or LL? If not did the LL holders complain when areas/units got changed from general to LE?

Couldn't the entire state go LE besides 1-2 units. Leave those units open for LL holders only? That way LL holders get their tag every year and Utah has one draw system for deer.
I believe the ratio of LE to General is still about the same as it was back then. A couple units have gone from LE to General and a couple from General to LE.

I’ve always been a proponent of opportunity and in my opinion the state needs to manage more for opportunity by reducing success rates. It seems ridiculous that we allow all this technology, open roads and trails, etc. and then decrease tags. I vote for road a ATV trail closures, limiting technology, etc. to make it more difficult to take game rather than decreased opportunity.

I’d rather hunt every year with just a 5% chance of success rather than once every 3 years with a 20% chance of success. Because of that, you won’t see me asking the state to take my LL deer tag away to give to someone else. If people who don’t have an LL want to hunt every year, then strive to reduce harvest and increase opportunity rather than try to take my opportunity away from me to give to someone else. That’s my opinion.
 
Born and raised utah. Been hunting here my whole life. It’s better than it was, and not worse than it has been in the past.

and what’s your point? Do you hit everything you shoot at? You ever missed before. We all start somewhere. Yeah most guys would fail the archery test probably. But there’s a lot of rifle guys out there who think they are hawt chit that can’t hit the broadside of a barn. Doesn’t mean they don’t have the right to go hunting.

apparently you think you have all the answers. But none of your suggestions fix the bigger issue, which is wildlife management. Utah needs to quit social management and worry about wildlife management. That’s where we went wrong to begin with.
Not even trying to fix all the issues, nor am I making any claim too, just the small ones that I personally see. You are damn straight I hit everything I shoot at. I haven't had anything but a one shot one kill situation in the last 30 years, for both elk and deer.

Why? Because in the late 80s I shot poorly and wounded a deer, I never did find it, and I spent days looking. It bothered me greatly and still does. I vowed that year that it would never happen again. It has not.

Guess what I did...I started shooting for an hour or two at a time, with broadhead tipped arrows, each and every day year-round. I continued this for years (decades). Now days I don't shoot so much. I still shoot on all but the worst winter days, but now I have far more experience and I do it much differently.

I mostly practice only 80-100 yard shots. I have a small target set-up at that distance. If you can consistently make those shots everything else is easy. I do it near daily but I only shoot a shot or three. This keeps my form in perfect shape, without wearing out my shoulders any faster than they already are. At that distance with broadhead tipped arrows, you will see the most minute of mistakes instantly. No guessing needed.

The only darn thing I am advocating at all, is more responsibility and accountability. I think more deer get wounded than killed on the archery hunt. There is absolutely no excuse in the world for this. Fixing this is easy, and it darn sure couldn't hurt with our herds at all, it may even indeed help.

My own 23 year old son owns a bow and has for a long while. I have long since told him he is welcome to hunt with it, at any distance that he can keep ALL of his broadhead tipped arrows in a 5 inch circle at. He has practiced a hand full of times...just enough to realize how much work it would take for him to be able to hunt past 15-20 yards.

He has come to the conclusion that it is not worth the effort to him, so he sticks with his muzzle-loader. He still practices with the muzzle-loader and has yet to wound any deer, he understands his limitations and is realistic, and above all else, ETHICAL.

Ethics seem to be a dying concept. That is the only thing at all that I am advocating for, the rest of the drivel you are spewing you made up in your own head, it sure didn't come from me.

Ethics... Learn them and practice them, it will help us all with public perception, and it may save a few animals as well.
 
And Hawkeye!

I Gave You 50 F'N Reasons Why!

Must Really Bother You that I Didn't Single Out Just 3 Reasons Why!

You Think 3 Changes Will Fix it But it Won't!

Re-Read HELL-RIGHT!

Oh and if it Makes You Feel Better Add Lifetimers to the Very Bottom of the List!

I Can GUARAN-DAMN-TEE You Niller is another Guy that Ain't Handing that LifeTime License in!
 
Elkster, I could name 100 pie in the sky ideas that will never have any chance of getting traction. Your HELL-RIGHT mantra is a pipe dream. In your mind, if he can’t fix everything he might as well not fix anything. By the way, save your Blake Shelton man crush for the clubhouse! ?
 
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I like the first two suggestions. Technology is a real issue that will have to be addressed in the coming years. But I know how you feel about even talking about your sacred muzzleloader scope! ?

As I said before, no western state has figured out how to consistently grow their mule deer herds. I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
 
You're WRONG again Hawkeye!

I Said I Give My SmokePole Scope up!

But All 3 Weapon Types Give too!

I Use All 3!

It's NOT 'SOME GAVE ALL'!

It's 'ALL GAVE SOME'!

You UNDER-F'N-STAND That Part?




I like the first two suggestions. Technology is a real issue that will have to be addressed in the coming years. But I know how you feel about even talking about your sacred muzzleloader scope! ?

As I said before, no western state has figured out how to consistently grow their mule deer herds. I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
 
And said I hunt all 3 weapon types and I’d still welcome technology limitations for all 3 weapons.

By the way, why are you yelling? Is your CAPS LOCK BUTTON stuck again? Or are you just reverting back three user names to BOBCAT BESS?
 
I Ain't Yelling!

Yet!:D

But You're About to Make Me YELL!:D



And said I hunt all 3 weapon types and I’d still welcome technology limitations for all 3 weapons.

By the way, why are you yelling? Is your CAPS LOCK BUTTON stuck again? Or are you just reverting back three user names to BOBCAT BESS?
 
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