Long Rifles and Hunt Expo

Founder

Founder Since 1999
Messages
11,448
Went down to the Hunt Expo yesterday. Applied for a few tags, but not a lot. I'm tight.
I haven't been to the show in a few years, and I'll tell you, it shocked me at all the long range rifle company?s. That's clearly a much bigger industry than I'd thought.
A lot of those guns looked like military guns.

It was a good show. Not crowded yesterday at all, so that was nice.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
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>Yep, long range game is taking
>over. Not good for mature
>bucks.

not good for any buck...



497fc2397b939f19.jpg

GOODWIN: Dems really do love Republicans -- when they're dead...
 
>>Yep, long range game is taking
>>over. Not good for mature
>>bucks.
>
>not good for any buck...
>
>
>
>
497fc2397b939f19.jpg

>GOODWIN: Dems really do love Republicans
>-- when they're dead...


NOT GOOD FOR ANY HUNTING!

Now its target practice and not hunting. And this is 100% my opinion, but I think it ruins hunting. It kills too many bucks/animals. Like I said, it is unfair to the animals that are being shot at over 1000 yards. It takes out of play fair play in my mind. It takes out their self defense that they have been given. And As I said before, just my opinion.
 
i was there yesterday also, no crowds it was great. I won a pair of vortex fury range finding binoculars pretty happy about that cuz i never win anything. Lots of long range rifles booths for sure, its crazy and dont forget the long range muzzleloaders, mature bucks are getting hammered in my opinion. CVA just got in the game, they have a new paramount muzzleloader at just over 1000 bucks and they are saying it will shoot 400 yrds pretty easy. Its a 45 cal shooting a 280 grain new bullet by powerbelt and the BC on the bullet is something else.
 
Fullthrottle, I fully agree with your opinion. The long range accuracy with these rifles will be the downfall of mature trophy size bucks. And even much more than the guides who park on a mature buck for their clients. It's only a matter of time.
 
I didn't pay close enough attention to see the long range muzzleloaders. 400 yards? WOW.

As far as guides parking on a buck, they'd probably get the buck whether their client is shooting a 1,000 yard rifle or 300 yard rifle. But for sure the longer range gun is huge help.
The big effect is just having huge numbers of hunters out there with guns that shoot that far. Many, many thousands of people hunting with guns that reach double the distance as guns did just 6-7 years ago. And, just because a gun is designed to shoot accurately at that range doesn't mean the shooter is.
It'll be a game changer for sure, just like everything else I suppose.

I have nothing at all against dudes who shoot long range guns, make use of whatever you want. I've even thought about jumping on board too. But I have to admit, I'd rather see firearms used for hunting be less effective rather than more effective, as it might lead to more opportunity and better quality game.
But at the same time, if nothing is ever going to be done to control it, then to keep up with the other guys on the mountain, I may need to have a gun that shoots accurate at 700 yards rather than just 400. What does a guy do?

Brian Latturner
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Did you see they also raised the
Admission price to $25...
And you can't print off any discount coupons anymore?
 
Man you all sound like a bunch of liberals.... really these guns are going to be the end of big deer??? That's a moron comment, just like when people say it's the fault of an assault weapon for mass killings. It's the moron behind the trigger who is to blame!

Those long range rifles take a ton of work and practice to be able to shoot an animal at long distances. The factors that effect bullets typically cause a miss by substancial margins unless the SHOOTER has done their part. Most of the people who buy these guns aren't going to take the time to shoot long distance.

However all of this is no different then single pin sliders bow sites, 350 FPS bows, high performance muzzy powder, inlines, and all the other technology that has come out the last 10-15 years.

I would put more blame on social media and the ol interwebs for the decline on big bucks then the weapon system. If it wasn?t for people wanting to be the next big social media guru.....
 
The thing that bothers me most about the 1000 yard shots is when the shooter thinks he/she "probably missed" and it would be a lot of hard work to cross that canyon and hike that far to find out. On to the next one glassed.
 
>Did you see they also raised
>the
>Admission price to $25...
>And you can't print off any
>discount coupons anymore?

20.00 wasn't Enough to cover Costs!:D









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
That happens at 200, 300, 400, and etc yards... the chance at missing is greater the longer distance. When they do miss it tends to be by feet rather then inches.

This also happened with Kentucky windage, holdover, and all the other tricks people have used to take game.. i
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-19 AT 07:30PM (MST)[p]I feel like the the long range game has just became a marketing scheme and it has created a lot of long range ?shooters? out of guys who haven't paid their dues to truly become one. Majority of guys just spend the 9 grand on a gunwerks/red rock set up and proclaim themselves lethal at 1000 plus yards. They don't reload for that gun, don't build or verify dope charts, have no clue what spin drift is, how to properly dope wind, understand how temperature/elevation effect ballistics, other than the crash course they get at a long range shooting school that is included with their gun purchase. Hell most don't even break the barrel in on the damn gun. Yes I'm a competitive long range shooter and I've killed multiple animals at long range but I've taken even more at under 400 yards. I guess I was brought into the game differently before it became a craze. Dad put me on a reloading bench at 10 years old, I learned how to build my rifles; swap barrels, bed stocks, swap triggers, verify dope charts, how to calculate MOA and Mils, how to range targets using mils etc etc heck I shot the barrels out of multiple 22-250s and 240 weatherbys as a kid doing nothing but practicing. But my dad never let me take a shot over 400 yards on a live animal until I was 18 years old. I guess my rant is that the art of being truly compentent with a rifle and knowing it has became a lost skill with people simply having the ability to buy a rifle that all the work has already been done for them.

Coloradoboy
 
Maybe the long range thing is overblown and not a big deal....??? I don't know.
I guess it just seems like it's a huge game changer. Maybe it's not.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
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on Facebook!
 
When You Boys Get Good Enough to Out-Guess Wind let me know!

I'll be Glad when the Heat Seeking Shows up!

That Ought to Just about finish Our Game Herds off!

Amazes Me How many People Blame just one Weapon!

It's All of them Including 150 Yard StickFlippers!:D

(((Just for You DConcrete!:D!)))








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Lots of bad hits and lost deer coming. Easy to dial. Not easy to judge wind. Been there. Done that. Not proud. I have the stuff to do it, just can't judge wind over canyons with no signs....

Dont care who it is, anometers etc, very tough
 
>Maybe the long range thing is
>overblown and not a big
>deal....??? I don't know.
>I guess it just seems like
>it's a huge game changer.
>Maybe it's not.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>@mm_founder on Instagram
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!


Might Be Overblown Founder!

But It's one More Equation to the Declining Quality of Game!

In 1976 I Got My 1st Decent Rifle!

7 MAG!

Figured I was capable of 350-400 Yards Shots Possibly!

JUDAS!

We Got SmokePoles Shooting further than that now!

It Ain't Hunting for Most of them anymore!

It's Shooting!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>Man you all sound like a
>bunch of liberals.... really these
>guns are going to be
>the end of big deer???
>That's a moron comment, just
>like when people say it's
>the fault of an assault
>weapon for mass killings. It's
>the moron behind the trigger
>who is to blame!
>
>Those long range rifles take a
>ton of work and practice
>to be able to shoot
>an animal at long distances.
>The factors that effect bullets
>typically cause a miss by
>substancial margins unless the SHOOTER
>has done their part. Most
>of the people who buy
>these guns aren't going to
>take the time to shoot
>long distance.
>
>However all of this is no
>different then single pin sliders
>bow sites, 350 FPS bows,
>high performance muzzy powder, inlines,
>and all the other technology
>that has come out the
>last 10-15 years.
>
>I would put more blame on
>social media and the ol
>interwebs for the decline on
>big bucks then the weapon
>system. If it wasn?t for
>people wanting to be the
>next big social media guru.....
>

Really, morons???? Most of us are just expressing opinions and to call us morons is pretty special of you...sounds like you have some skin in the long range game...nevertheless, it's NOT fair chase to be able to shoot, kill or even wound an animal at distances these new rifles are being shot, and I'm not a liberal. You must have woken up with your panties in a wad?? I think someone who tries to shoot an animal at anything over 300 to 400 yards to too damn lazy to pursue the animal in a fair chase method and use skills to do so. JMHO.
 
LRH has effected all western states in a negative fashion. Especially in open broke up country that mule deer call home, and elk for that fashion.
With these guns it's about ?drawing ? a tag , so to speak.?!
Allot of times I feel it's shooting a target more than a hunter harvesting an animal.
Holy hell, just think about the the barriers our big game herds have endured over the last decade = lions, highways,severe loss of winter range, poor management., any killing of mule deer does is f*ing sickening...
Finding and shooting? VS Finding and hunting?
We have already seen the survival of the fittest,in a few of our ?general ? season units that produce 220+ plus bucks.
In the near future prime units will not produce any ?book? non- typ heads cause guides are smoking them at 205? magic number right. ?? Due to LRH ..
unless something changes any big game in premier units will not reach their potential. Period.

Longbow/recurve
Traditional muzzy( hawken)
3*9 scope. And rifle.

Make it a damn hunt for hell sakes.

Do I do it? He'll ya! Competitive edge against the next guy, piece of mind..
Gotta be a better way.

Pretty soon we will all be shooting steel bucks.
 
I'm with Founder on this one. Not sure how you limit it though. Ban ballistic computers during season? Limit bullets similar to Colorado does with muzzy season?

I truly believe how ever if you truly want to get the most bang you ban trail cams during the season. Archery to whenever your last cow hunt is. I think that is something that will help decrease odds without touching opportunity.

LR costs a ton. Camo fire has cams all the time for $50.

Pretty simple enforcement as well. Any cam found on public land after first day of archery is considered abandoned, and is "free game"

Of course you'd need a fine system if caught. 10x cam value per cam seems good to me.







From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Founder,

Your thoughts here are just part of a bigger debate that is happening all the time even on this site which is how is technology adversely affecting our hunting opportunities. Trail cams, Drones, satellite mapping, etc. Long range is just one more sub category of this. Here are the only real solutions to keep or expand hunting in the west if we can get it past the liberals.
1. Predator control. mainly mountain loins and coyotes.
2. Habitat protection and enhancement.
3. Limiting technology. I've said it on this site before but it will never pass because of big companies dollars against it and probably the unwillingness of hunters to get behind it. But get rid or trail cameras, No optics on rifles "open site only" and traditional bows only.

With these changes we could got back to OTC tags that can be used all over the state with abundant game just like when I was a kid. I think it would be worth it.
 
Every long range booth pushing the newest, hottest 6.5 PRC. Several guys telling me no other cartridge compares. I really like reloading, experimenting with powders and different bullets. Started along time ago learning to shoot long range, the farthest shot I've I taken at an animal is 400 yards.i guess I still like to stalk animals. There were rifles at the show that can shoot well over a mile accurately. There had to be at least 5 new camouflage company?s, there had to be at least 10 special energy drinks and vitamins designed for hunters. I've never seen so many high end optics being sold by a lot of venders. It seems like there is a new gadget being developed everyday for the hunter. I'm getting old and just looking for a good hunt every year, what made me upset was I could not find the pillow booths for I was looking to take a nap about mid afternoon. Great show though, getting to see old friends, that's why I go.
 
6.5 Creedmore was pushed the same a few years ago - nothing compares. It's all about marketing, although the 6.5 PRC intrigues me as it basically is a .264 WSM.

The trophy hunting and big horn club is what has brought the onslaught of long range shooting/hunting. If it weren't for the glamour of posting up big buck pics, long range wouldn't be a factor. If people would congratulate and be genuinely happy for the guy who shoots a small 3x4, long range ability to "smoke" a 190" muley at 826 yds wouldn't matter.

My daughter had two really good youth tags this past year. The types of tags where on one, she was the only hunter in the entire unit. The other, only 4 other youth hunters were on the same hunt in very late Nov. There was a certain sense of pressure (that I imposed on myself) to shoot big bucks on both hunts. That pressure almost took the fun out of it, all for some stupid "look at me" pics.

That is why long range shooting at animals has become popular - peer pressure of being jested by "that" crowd they hang with.

I blame the flat-brimmers...
 
Like BIGJOHN told me yesterday at the EXPO!

Any 6.5 is nothing more than a 'Man Bun Gun'!

They'll Shoot in to Next Week but won't even wound a Mosquito out past their kill Range!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Anybody that attends or supports the expo is supporting the biggest, most corrupt downfall of western big game. It kills me how many guys ##### and moan about not drawing tags, piss poor management, and point creep yet you go and feed the $FW beast who is literally taking hundreds of public tags out of our draws to pad their pockets in the name of conservation. Long range shooting is just a by product of what is "cool" same as flatties, supplements, and exploiting areas and wildlife for "likes". It's becoming a sport full of posers and wannabes that are trying to be like what they see on YouTube and their social media accts.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-17-19 AT 09:16AM (MST)[p]Here's my opinion for whatever it's worth.
I don't think LRR's are to blame for the decline in mule deer, but it could be a nail in the coffin.

Long Range Rifles are exploding because OF the decline in mule deer bucks and it is a tool we are taking advantage of to help us harvest that one big buck we find after hunting our tails off and or waiting 18 years to draw.

Do you think the LRR business would be booming if there were better mature buck populations?

A LRR wasn't needed back in the 80's when bigger mature bucks were more abundant, a 30-06 was really all that was necessary and a faster flatter 270 was all the "long range caliber" you needed to reach all the way out to 300-400 yards.

How many remember the awesome hunting in the Bookcliffs or the Henry's back before they were LE's and were just a 3 point or better unit?

All this talk that we are losing hunters is BS, our hills are extremely over hunted and when we do happen to be fortunate enough to see a 160" buck after 6 days on a hunt, we better be able to have a rifle that will reach him because it very well may be the only chance you'll get.

Our deer herds were in trouble long before the LR craze began.
 
I agree with those that have said there are very few operators of said long range rifles that know how to dope the wind. Dialing elevation with decent equipment is relatively easy but the rest of the environmental factors complicate things dramatically. Personally I think all this modern archery & muzzy equipment have as much if not more effect on big deer & bulls than the lr rifles being able to hunt seasons when the animals are more susceptible to hunters. It all comes down to Hunter ethics & making good decisions out of respect for the animals we hunt. Poor shots occur every season from point blank to infinity. Knowing your equipment & how & when to use it is a way bigger issue than the equipment itself imo.
 
If a guy can have 3 wife?s he ought to be legally able to shoot him some smokeless powder out of that fancy new gunwerks muzzleloader
 
>Any idea when Utards are going
>to make smokeless powder legal
>in muzzleloaders?


It's coming, no doubts about it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-19 AT 11:42AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-19 AT 11:40?AM (MST)

So my take on this TECHNOLOGY is the biggest thing killing off are herds especially are deer herds and poor management

long range is in all these weapons these days
bowhunters are shooting 60 plus yards

muzzy hunters can shoot out to 400 yards

rifle hunters can shoot out to 1000 yards

nobody can blame one or the other weapon It's all of them technology has gone threw the roof the last 20 years
 
Brian you NEED to buy a dozen of these and start renting them In Wyoming thats the only way there going to get banned!
 

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