Looking for ideas....

[Wiszard]

My Dad has 17 resident deer points. He's getting old and needs to burn them in the 2025 season. Ideas on what "easier" hunts he could do with 17 points or what hunts we could do together sharing the 17 points. Is there an "easy" 17 points unit? Any help is appreciated. You can pm me if you'd like. I don't hunt here in Cali so no ideas on what less than max would get other than like an X zone. Thanks in advance.

 

[Moe]

Not sure of any easy hunts in Comifornia. Split the 17 with you on a couple X zone hunts.

 

[Rie bread]

Does he shoot a muzzy?

 

[oljc]

PM Sent

 

[Soj51hopeful]

Uhh wiz….. why is there a tranny in the background when I click on your profile picture?????

 

[Wiszard]

Does he shoot a muzzy?

He can shoot a muzzy but probably would prefer not to. But he will if we can find him a better than average hunt. You've got my cell....let me know your thoughts.

 

[Wiszard]

Uhh wiz….. why is there a tranny in the background when I click on your profile picture?????

That's the Bud Light guy.....I did that as a reminder that no matter how bad things get for me, I will always be the man I was meant to be.

 

[bullskin]

He does not have the points to guarantee drawing the best late/migration hunts, but he could draw two Bass Hill muzzleloader hunts and stand a good chance with decent, mature mule deer. The conditions would be about as easy as is possible for a tag of this caliber, although he might end up hunting in snow. Doyle muzzie is another possibility, but it is not always an easy hunt--and he may not make the points.

For rifle, he can draw any general season X zone he wants--including the grand daddy, X5B--or even several of the lower tier hunts. For me, the value of the X tag is in the ability to find rough terrain and escape the crowds on ATV's. In the end, the quality of the buck he takes will probably be dictated by the difficulty of the hunt. If a big buck is is not his primary goal, or if a difficult hunt is out of the question, then perhaps he should pick a unit that simply provides a good experience in the field--which, to me, means fewer people, good glassing, and access to interesting camping sites. Western units seem to provide easier access than those on the east. In the end, any zone you can scout will be better than someone else's favorite if you do not know how to hunt it.

Good luck!

 

[huntindad4]

Good responses above. Another to think about is X2 for both of you....maybe... lowest to draw last year was 9 points.

The hunt has gone downhill since the private closure of Collins Timber but there are still big bucks there.

The terrain is flat and lots of roads.

Also the times I've hunted it and the people I've talked to that have hunted it more recently have shown it gets better as the season progresses. The migration of deer from Oregon still exists although diminished greatly.

This is not an easy hunt in the sense that you will see bucks everywhere. But easy for an old guy to get out and move around a bit. I don't think an easy as in you'll see bucks everywhere hunt exists for 17 points.

 

[PCPython]

He does not have the points to guarantee drawing the best late/migration hunts, but he could draw two Bass Hill muzzleloader hunts and stand a good chance with decent, mature mule deer. The conditions would be about as easy as is possible for a tag of this caliber, although he might end up hunting in snow. Doyle muzzie is another possibility, but it is not always an easy hunt--and he may not make the points.

For rifle, he can draw any general season X zone he wants--including the grand daddy, X5B--or even several of the lower tier hunts. For me, the value of the X tag is in the ability to find rough terrain and escape the crowds on ATV's. In the end, the quality of the buck he takes will probably be dictated by the difficulty of the hunt. If a big buck is is not his primary goal, or if a difficult hunt is out of the question, then perhaps he should pick a unit that simply provides a good experience in the field--which, to me, means fewer people, good glassing, and access to interesting camping sites. Western units seem to provide easier access than those on the east. In the end, any zone you can scout will be better than someone else's favorite if you do not know how to hunt it.

He does not have the points to guarantee drawing the best late/migration hunts, but he could draw two Bass Hill muzzleloader hunts and stand a good chance with decent, mature mule deer. The conditions would be about as easy as is possible for a tag of this caliber, although he might end up hunting in snow. Doyle muzzie is another possibility, but it is not always an easy hunt--and he may not make the points.

For rifle, he can draw any general season X zone he wants--including the grand daddy, X5B--or even several of the lower tier hunts. For me, the value of the X tag is in the ability to find rough terrain and escape the crowds on ATV's. In the end, the quality of the buck he takes will probably be dictated by the difficulty of the hunt. If a big buck is is not his primary goal, or if a difficult hunt is out of the question, then perhaps he should pick a unit that simply provides a good experience in the field--which, to me, means fewer people, good glassing, and access to interesting camping sites. Western units seem to provide easier access than those on the east. In the end, any zone you can scout will be better than someone else's favorite if you do not know how to hunt it.

Good luck!

17 points is not enough to draw X5B in the preference point round.

 

[tylercreek2]

Good responses above. Another to think about is X2 for both of you....maybe... lowest to draw last year was 9 points.

The hunt has gone downhill since the private closure of Collins Timber but there are still big bucks there.

The terrain is flat and lots of roads.

Also the times I've hunted it and the people I've talked to that have hunted it more recently have shown it gets better as the season progresses. The migration of deer from Oregon still exists although diminished greatly.

This is not an easy hunt in the sense that you will see bucks everywhere. But easy for an old guy to get out and move around a bit. I don't think an easy as in you'll see bucks everywhere hunt exists for 17 points.

i would second x 2

 

[highsierra]

He does not have the points to guarantee drawing the best late/migration hunts, but he could draw two Bass Hill muzzleloader hunts and stand a good chance with decent, mature mule deer. The conditions would be about as easy as is possible for a tag of this caliber, although he might end up hunting in snow. Doyle muzzie is another possibility, but it is not always an easy hunt--and he may not make the points.

For rifle, he can draw any general season X zone he wants--including the grand daddy, X5B--or even several of the lower tier hunts. For me, the value of the X tag is in the ability to find rough terrain and escape the crowds on ATV's. In the end, the quality of the buck he takes will probably be dictated by the difficulty of the hunt. If a big buck is is not his primary goal, or if a difficult hunt is out of the question, then perhaps he should pick a unit that simply provides a good experience in the field--which, to me, means fewer people, good glassing, and access to interesting camping sites. Western units seem to provide easier access than those on the east. In the end, any zone you can scout will be better than someone else's favorite if you do not know how to hunt it.

Good luck!

solid advice!

 

[bullskin]

Oops! You are right-he is still a few years out from x5b

 

[Wiszard]

X5b took 17-18 last year....Might get lucky this year.

 

[PCPython]

There were 47 applicants with 18-21 points, 72 applicants with 17-18 points and 80 applicants with 16-17 points. There's 50 total tags and 45 of those go to the preference point round and 5 tags go to random. With him having 16 points last year he's probably still a couple of years out from being guaranteed a tag in X5B. Of course there's always the chance to draw a random tag.

 

[chrisamx]

We need to increase random tags so that everyone can have a chance.

 

[huntindad4]

We need to increase random tags so that everyone can have a chance.

And stop points accrual while working back towards an all random draw.

 

[Wiszard]

Exactly....I would go for a system like New Mexicos where everyone has the same odds.

 

[LIK2HNT]

Exactly....I would go for a system like New Mexicos where everyone has the same odds.

Says the guy that just drew G3 and is back to zero points.

If you want to stop issuing new points, fine. But keep the current draw system and anyone who drew a tag that took 1 point or more in the last 20 years gets to sit out for that species for 20 years.

 

[Rie bread]

Says the guy that just drew G3 and is back to zero points.

If you want to stop issuing new points, fine. But keep the current draw system and anyone who drew a tag that took 1 point or more in the last 20 years gets to sit out for that species for 20 years.

Yeah have a point pool until it runs out and a random pool.

 

[huntindad4]

There isn't a deer unit in the state worth waiting 20 years to hunt. Or in the west for that matter. IMO.

Stop new points and draw out the existing points pool. Down to 3 or 5 or something. Then go all random.

The point ponzi scheme has proven to be a joke.

 

[BradA]

We need to increase random tags so that everyone can have a chance.

There already is a random tag allocation to the draw and honestly it benefits the random stakeholders more so then the max point guys with species like sheep.

 

[BradA]

If they want to help the point situation for deer they should start with not issuing two deer tags per individual and taking points away for any of the three choices you draw.

 

[Wiszard]

Says the guy that just drew G3 and is back to zero points.

If you want to stop issuing new points, fine. But keep the current draw system and anyone who drew a tag that took 1 point or more in the last 20 years gets to sit out for that species for 20 years.

BUSTED!!! I was wondering if anyone would catch on....LOL

 

[Wiszard]

If they want to help the point situation for deer they should start with not issuing two deer tags per individual and taking points away for any of the three choices you draw.

Then who will buy the 60,000 A zone tags?? LOL

 

[BradA]

Then who will buy the 60,000 A zone tags?? LOL

That’s the point it’s all about money for the state not the resources and that’s why when the subject comes up about modifying or changing the drawing process it’s a waste of breathe California changes nothing unless it benefits them financially.

 

[PCPython]

There is NO perfect draw system. If you're old enough to have max points and don't have max points that's your choice. I get tired of guys complaining about the point system because they're not in the point pool to draw a tag and then find out they didn't even apply for a few years. I know a few guys who don't have max points for antelope, elk and sheep simply because they FORGOT to apply one year. That's not my fault. There's a few states I wish I would've started building points before I did. I know lots of hunters aren't even old enough to have the points necessary to draw premium tags but that's life and life isn't fair sometimes.

I have max antelope and sheep points in CA and would be upset if they change the draw system now. I drew X5B deer with one point the second year CA had a point system so I'm sitting at 20 deer points. I also drew elk in 2016 with max points. I don't expect to ever draw another elk tag but it doesn't keep me from applying. I'll burn my deer points one of these days also. I always have my name in the hat for sheep but apply for points only for antelope some years. Like I said no draw system is perfect, not even the states with no point system.

 

[Rie bread]

There isn't a deer unit in the state worth waiting 20 years to hunt. Or in the west for that matter. IMO.

Stop new points and draw out the existing points pool. Down to 3 or 5 or something. Then go all random.

The point ponzi scheme has proven to be a joke.

So many units could go random currently that everyone, even low point holders have a shot. Maybe you got 7-9 then you could either apply in the point pool with 7-9 or a random but hold your points if in the random. Eventually your point total would give you a chance at a unit, if you wanted to hold your points and wait for max points to draw to come down

 

[highsierra]

Exactly....I would go for a system like New Mexicos where everyone has the same odds.

You say that now… But wait until you have a friend that draws two or three great tags in a short period of time… and you go for 25 years without ever drawing. It won’t look that appealing to you then!

 

[PCPython]

My parents and I drew X5B four times in an eight year period with three of those times being before CA started the point system. We have a few friends who had applied for years and never drawn. Needless to say they weren't the happiest for us.

 

[huntindad4]

My parents and I drew X5B four times in an eight year period with three of those times being before CA started the point system. We have a few friends who had applied for years and never drawn. Needless to say they weren't the happiest for us.

I had a similar record in a different x zone. However in the same time frame you could only have one tag if it was an X tag. So a ton of hunters didn't apply for X zones.

As far as "not your fault" if someone has max age but not max points, so to speak. While I agree, if I've had 5 X tags in that time period that you've been holding out for a special tag. That's not my fault if the points draw ends tomorrow. You could have used the points and with the current state of deer in CA and lack of ANY tag worth that long of a wait some might say you should have.

Nobody is blaming YOU for them nor having the points to secure a good tag.

The fact is a ton of guys are gonna die with all of those points. And quite a few are pulling people into drawing a tag to only turn around and turn their tag back for points because of "medical reasons" just so their nephew and buddy can get a tag.

The point system is flawed. Random chance drawing are just that...random. Neither is fair. So what?

I'm only speaking to deer hunts.

You have to be at least 33? years old to have max points. I'd love to see the average age of max point holders. It won't be long, ten years? Maybe and most of them won't be able to physically hunt the units that only they have a chance to draw.

My ideas above and my thinking that we should only be allowed one tag and tag number cuts will never happen. Why? State will lose too much money.

Right now they like the current system of selling points to people too old to hunt and a dream of "maybe someday" to the struggling number of youth hunters. It's lucrative...

 

[LIK2HNT]

I have applied for G3 for 49 years. Use to be SX2 or something like that. Still have not drawn and I am at max points. Waiting for my lucky draw year. Probably be the same year I draw my sheep and my Grizzly Island elk tags. Plenty of opportunities in CA and other states to keep me more than busy all these years.

 

[LIK2HNT]

G3 like all western mule deer areas is not what it use to be. I have posted this news paper article of this lady before. She shot it with a .243 in the late 70’s or early 80’s. The 2 mounts are from a guy my dad worked with. Both are from 70’s.

The next two are picks others have posted on here before.

 

[PCPython]

I could've drawn X5B the past couple of years but had other commitments that were more important. I know as well as anyone X5B isn't what it used to be but I'll probably decide to draw it again in the next few years. With my parents getting up there in age I realize they only have a few more years for big out of state hunts so I've been more focused on them these days. I'm not complaining one bit about not drawing tags as I still get to help others every year.

 

[chrisamx]

There already is a random tag allocation to the draw and honestly it benefits the random stakeholders more so then the max point guys with species like sheep.

There shouldn't even be points for sheep, elk and antelope. There are not enough tags. Most people who have max points for sheep are going to die with max points. It is a money making scheme by Fish and Game (CDFW).

 

[willfrye027]

Seems rare that CA changes anything. They could do so much more and increase opportunity/move through point holders. There’s plenty of age class in the d zones to add late season tags, even just archery hunts. Probably a million things they could do that hunters would be on board with but they could probably care less what we want.

 

[highsierra]

The only thing you can really do to increase "opportunity" for those seeking to hunt big game species in California is to increase tag numbers....and the only way you are ever going to see that happen is if big game populations increase significantly. So....how do you accomplish that? Prioritizing game species and recognizing hunters as an integrall part of the ecosystem rather than an outside entity. A priority should be placed on controlling apex predator population levels to allow a surplus in game species populations to build that can be MANAGED by the issuance of hunters harvest permits/tags.

All this talk of changing/modifying the system that issues tags to create more opportunity is rubbish! Nothing suggested regarding the allocation of tags changes the total number of permits issued...which IS the "opportunity" available to hunters.

So what's the take away? In a state where we have a population that exceeds 40 million (and growing), pressure on our wildlife populations and their habitat will continue to grow exponentially into the future. To increase opportunity, you MUST increase the animals available for harvest at a rate that exceeds the current demands of hunters. Until we get REALLY, REALLY serious about that....expect your opportunity to hunt big game species in CA to do nothing but decrease, no matter what system of tag allocation is in place.

 

[BradA]

Seems rare that CA changes anything. They could do so much more and increase opportunity/move through point holders. There’s plenty of age class in the d zones to add late season tags, even just archery hunts. Probably a million things they could do that hunters would be on board with but they could probably care less what we want.

I agree that they could do this especially with sheep opportunity, there are sheep in ranges that aren’t open dying every year.

 

[BradA]

The only thing you can really do to increase "opportunity" for those seeking to hunt big game species in California is to increase tag numbers....and the only way you are ever going to see that happen is if big game populations increase significantly. So....how do you accomplish that? Prioritizing game species and recognizing hunters as an integrall part of the ecosystem rather than an outside entity. A priority should be placed on controlling apex predator population levels to allow a surplus in game species populations to build that can be MANAGED by the issuance of hunters harvest permits/tags.

All this talk of changing/modifying the system that issues tags to create more opportunity is rubbish! Nothing suggested regarding the allocation of tags changes the total number of permits issued...which IS the "opportunity" available to hunters.

So what's the take away? In a state where we have a population that exceeds 40 million (and growing), pressure on our wildlife populations and their habitat will continue to grow exponentially into the future. To increase opportunity, you MUST increase the animals available for harvest at a rate that exceeds the current demands of hunters. Until we get REALLY, REALLY serious about that....expect your opportunity to hunt big game species in CA to do nothing but decrease, no matter what system of tag allocation is in place.

True and valid point. A good start would be to get some mtn lion hunting going again to not only help the deer herd but the Sierra Nevada bighorns, and many other species. But how do we get that opened again? That and working in summer and winter habitat would be huge.

 

[Wiszard]

The only thing you can really do to increase "opportunity" for those seeking to hunt big game species in California is to increase tag numbers....and the only way you are ever going to see that happen is if big game populations increase significantly. So....how do you accomplish that? Prioritizing game species and recognizing hunters as an integrall part of the ecosystem rather than an outside entity. A priority should be placed on controlling apex predator population levels to allow a surplus in game species populations to build that can be MANAGED by the issuance of hunters harvest permits/tags.

All this talk of changing/modifying the system that issues tags to create more opportunity is rubbish! Nothing suggested regarding the allocation of tags changes the total number of permits issued...which IS the "opportunity" available to hunters.

So what's the take away? In a state where we have a population that exceeds 40 million (and growing), pressure on our wildlife populations and their habitat will continue to grow exponentially into the future. To increase opportunity, you MUST increase the animals available for harvest at a rate that exceeds the current demands of hunters. Until we get REALLY, REALLY serious about that....expect your opportunity to hunt big game species in CA to do nothing but decrease, no matter what system of tag allocation is in place.

I think the reason nobody ever addresses that tag numbers is because we all know that this is California we're talking about. "We" abuse anything and everything until it has no value. Tag numbers won't decrease so it's a focus on HOW to increase the opportunities without changing tag numbers. Wouldn't shock me if they increased tag numbers at all. Again, Cali abuse is incessant.

 

[highsierra]

when

I think the reason nobody ever addresses that tag numbers is because we all know that this is California we're talking about. "We" abuse anything and everything until it has no value. Tag numbers won't decrease so it's a focus on HOW to increase the opportunities without changing tag numbers. Wouldn't shock me if they increased tag numbers at all. Again, Cali abuse is incessant.

When you say, "focus on HOW to increase the opportunities without changing tag numbers." I really dont understand how that is possible....other than by killing off a bunch of you hunter bretheran...and I know you dont mean that! The reality is that anything that could be done is to increase the opportunity for some, while maintaining tag numbers, would result in a decrease in opportunity for others...Right? You can slice the pie any way you want...but no matter what you do, the only way EVERYONE gets more pie is to make more pies!

 

[willfrye027]

when

When you say, "focus on HOW to increase the opportunities without changing tag numbers." I really dont understand how that is possible....other than by killing off a bunch of you hunter bretheran...and I know you dont mean that! The reality is that the only thing that could be done is to increase the opportunity for some, while maintaining tag numbers, would result in a decrease for others...Right? You can slice the pie any way you want...but no matter what you do, the only way someone gets more pie without someone getting less is to make more pies and divide them equally!

Part of the problem is Ca really doesn’t keep close tabs on deer populations. Not that I can tell anyways and certainly nothing like most western states.

I think there is a lot of additional opportunity to be had in some of our general units.

Late season A zone tags
Late season D zone tags

Those would be an easy place to start. I spend a lot of time on d7 winter range and there are bucks dying of old age. Age class is extremely good. Numbers overall may be down from historical levels but we also have less ideal habitat and killing a few more bucks won’t change the herd dynamics. There’s plenty of escapement for them to not get killed during sept/October and they migrate late enough to avoid being killed. Same with A zone. Plenty of opportunity could be had with even a handful of late season hunts.

If DFG even wanted to increase opportunity there are plenty of options ripe for the taking.

 

[Wiszard]

when

When you say, "focus on HOW to increase the opportunities without changing tag numbers." I really dont understand how that is possible....other than by killing off a bunch of you hunter bretheran...and I know you dont mean that! The reality is that the only thing that could be done is to increase the opportunity for some, while maintaining tag numbers, would result in a decrease for others...Right? You can slice the pie any way you want...but no matter what you do, the only way someone gets more pie without someone getting less is to make more pies and divide them equally!

I want me some more pie, dammit!!!! I get what you're saying. Cali is a lost cause I feel.

 

[Cahunter805]

Part of the problem is Ca really doesn’t keep close tabs on deer populations. Not that I can tell anyways and certainly nothing like most western states.

I think there is a lot of additional opportunity to be had in some of our general units.

Late season A zone tags
Late season D zone tags

Those would be an easy place to start. I spend a lot of time on d7 winter range and there are bucks dying of old age. Age class is extremely good. Numbers overall may be down from historical levels but we also have less ideal habitat and killing a few more bucks won’t change the herd dynamics. There’s plenty of escapement for them to not get killed during sept/October and they migrate late enough to avoid being killed. Same with A zone. Plenty of opportunity could be had with even a handful of late season hunts.

If DFG even wanted to increase opportunity there are plenty of options ripe for the taking.

There has been proposals for late season A zone hunts before but they haven’t passed any yet.

 

[Wiszard]

There has been proposals for late season A zone hunts before but they haven’t passed any yet.

The A zone allocation is a joke. Imagine IF all 60,000 tags were sold and there was a 15% success rate. How many years would it take for them to figure out that they need to reduce tags? I don't think they would because they'd realize that A zone is a cash cow. I would love a late season A zone hunt just to extend our season here and be able to hunt in only 70 degree weather instead of 90 degree weather.

 

[highsierra]

Part of the problem is Ca really doesn’t keep close tabs on deer populations. Not that I can tell anyways and certainly nothing like most western states.

I think there is a lot of additional opportunity to be had in some of our general units.

Late season A zone tags
Late season D zone tags

Those would be an easy place to start. I spend a lot of time on d7 winter range and there are bucks dying of old age. Age class is extremely good. Numbers overall may be down from historical levels but we also have less ideal habitat and killing a few more bucks won’t change the herd dynamics. There’s plenty of escapement for them to not get killed during sept/October and they migrate late enough to avoid being killed. Same with A zone. Plenty of opportunity could be had with even a handful of late season hunts.

If DFG even wanted to increase opportunity there are plenty of options ripe for the taking.

A good friend of mine is our DFW biologist for the area. Last year he told me that there was a proposal to do exactly what you explained...add a limited number of "late season" tags for D-6 outside of the the already established Anderson Flat hunt designed to provide access to "park deer" not normally available during the general season. They wouldnt necessarily add more tags however as the proposal was to reduce the number of general season tags to cover it. Just sort of a redistribution of "opportunity".

Not really sure how I feel about this though...lots to consider.

 

[LIK2HNT]

The A zone allocation is a joke. Imagine IF all 60,000 tags were sold and there was a 15% success rate. How many years would it take for them to figure out that they need to reduce tags? I don't think they would because they'd realize that A zone is a cash cow. I would love a late season A zone hunt just to extend our season here and be able to hunt in only 70 degree weather instead of 90 degree weather.

Also wish they would not close the bear season until all the quota is filled. Even if that takes running the season into March. Wouldn’t that be fun to combine a bear and turkey hunt.

 

[LIK2HNT]

Sorry @Wiszard , we sure did hijack your thread.

 

[Wiszard]

Sorry @Wiszard , we sure did hijack your thread.

Just had to go to the top to see what thread this is...LOL. It's all good. I think we've decided on X5b.

 

[BradA]

when

When you say, "focus on HOW to increase the opportunities without changing tag numbers." I really dont understand how that is possible....other than by killing off a bunch of you hunter bretheran...and I know you dont mean that! The reality is that anything that could be done is to increase the opportunity for some, while maintaining tag numbers, would result in a decrease in opportunity for others...Right? You can slice the pie any way you want...but no matter what you do, the only way EVERYONE gets more pie is to make more pies!

I think the only answer to this without “cutting a slice of the pie” would be to start lion hunting, spring bear, start working on habitat as well as travel corridors crossings for deer and other animals like most all states are getting after right now. I think that would be a great start but I don’t think we would see a benefit to it for ten plus years.

 

[tylercreek2]

90 degree weather

you mean 110 right?

 

[LIK2HNT]

you mean 110 right?

Only on a cool day

 

[bullskin]

You can slice the pie any way you want...but no matter what you do, the only way EVERYONE gets more pie is to make more pies!

The number of deer killed along certain highways is crazy. I would bet that 299 east, 70, 89 and 395 kill more deer than hunters take in their respective units. Fences make good bakers. And DFG needs to play a more active role in forest management. Deer can't survive in ten-thousand acre+ pine plantations.

 

[Rie bread]

late season hunts? Age class? Colorado is coming to mind and that worked out well for them? I’m not sure that would be good at all for the deer.

 

[Rie bread]

you mean 110 right?

Funny as it sounds some of our best days deer hunting is in 100+ degree heat. Puts them where you want them, in the shade

 

[wildfin]

There already is some late hunt opportunity in A zone , just not many and mostly archery and muzzle loader. plm I think goes into December. I know deer numbers are down for now, and I don't think getting to the cream of the crop is such a good idea, seems it didn't work well for Colorado. Lion hunting got stopped with a public vote, so you know most voters had no clue of the difference it would make and it would be the same outcome if they voted again today. X5b is a great choice, It used to be 2 weeks later and had at least another 25% success. The muzzy is after the rifle and has been having like a 100% success for several years now. there is never going to be enough pie/X5b, hope for a slice is all you get.

 

[bullskin]

I knew a man who drew three X5B tags almost back-to-back prior to the establishment of the point system. But, for every one of those guys there was another who would not draw a single tag in twenty years, and that is the problem that the point system was intended to correct. In essence, we swapped the equal chance of drawing a tag every year for an equal chance to draw tags over a lifetime--assuming one lived long enough.

The odds of drawing a hunt depend only on the number of tags and the number of applicants, and neither of these depends on the system in place. Eliminating the point system does not increase one's chances at a difficult hunt, but it does provide the opportunity for one person to draw while still young in exchange for increasing the time it takes for someone else. Some will win sooner, but an equal number will lose longer. The average wait time between hunts is the same either way.

There is an advantage for some in changing the system since a hunter with fifteen points and who currently counts as fifteen applicants in the draw would be reduced to the status of one applicant, so those with fewer points would benefit at his expense. But such gains are short-lived and, in the end, once this readjustment took place, we would all be back in the same boat--too few tags, too many applicants, and the average wait time between hunts would remain unchanged.

Neither system is "fairer" when it comes to draw odds over the long-term. What is decidedly unfair is changing horses mid-stream in order to benefit one group of people over another.

 

[highsierra]

I knew a man who drew three X5B tags almost back-to-back prior to the establishment of the point system. But, for every one of those guys there was another who would not draw a single tag in twenty years, and that is the problem that the point system was intended to correct. In essence, we swapped the equal chance of drawing a tag every year for an equal chance to draw tags over a lifetime--assuming one lived long enough.

The odds of drawing a hunt depend only on the number of tags and the number of applicants, and neither of these depends on the system in place. Eliminating the point system does not increase one's chances at a difficult hunt, but it does increase one's chances of drawing while young. The wait time between hunts is the same either way.

The only advantage to changing systems at this time would result from the fact that a hunter with fifteen points and who currently counts as fifteen applicants in the draw, would be reduced to the status of one applicant, and so others would benefit at his expense. But such gains are short-lived and, in the end, once this readjustment took place, we would all be back in the same boat--too few tags, too many applicants, and the average wait time between hunts would remain unchanged.

Neither system is "fairer" when it comes to draw odds over the long-term. What is decidedly unfair is changing horses mid-stream in order to benefit one group of people over another.

Exactly!!!

 

[bullskin]

There shouldn't even be points for sheep, elk and antelope. There are not enough tags. Most people who have max points for sheep are going to die with max points. It is a money making scheme by Fish and Game (CDFW).

I do not understand how CFW makes more money by giving points to unsuccessful applicants that they would if they gave them nothing. Those who die before drawing would have spent the same amount over the years, with or without points to show for it. Its like dying with Trump superhero trading cards in your safety deposit box as opposed to nothing at all.

 

[huntindad4]

I do not understand how CFW makes more money by giving points to unsuccessful applicants that they would if they gave them nothing. Those who die before drawing would have spent the same amount over the years, with or without points to show for it. Its like dying with Trump superhero trading cards in your safety deposit box as opposed to nothing at all.

Because not everyone is trying to draw a tag EVERY year. Hence the point saver. If you want to some day draw a tag you HAVE TO buy a point every year. In a random draw you put in on a year you know you will likely hunt if you draw.

Point is, some people, whether for financial reasons or known work obligations or familial obligations or whatever might not want that deer tag this year. So in a random drawbthey just don't put in. With a point system you have to. Equals more money for CA fish and game.

MANY peopldobby points only in MANY states.

When points started I had zero desire to hunt sheep so I didn't apply for them. Now I wouldn't mind a sheep hunt, still not big on it but the fact that my interest has changed a bit makes me wish I had max points. But the random on some sheep hunts in CA may have almost as good of a chance as the points? Idk? I haven't looked to deep into that.

 

[huntindad4]

The number of deer killed along certain highways is crazy. I would bet that 299 east, 70, 89 and 395 kill more deer than hunters take in their respective units. Fences make good bakers. And DFG needs to play a more active role in forest management. Deer can't survive in ten-thousand acre+ pine plantations.

The idea that the Forest Service and big timber companies are doing something positive by replanting these massive pine plantations is the biggest scam in the resource management world. Disgusting.

I hate meddling by Government into private business but this is one area that I think they need to be more involved.

 

[Wiszard]

The idea that the Forest Service and big timber companies are doing something positive by replanting these massive pine plantations is the biggest scam in the resource management world. Disgusting.

I hate meddling by Government into private business but this is one area that I think they need to be more involved.

Deer eat pine trees.....duh!

 

[Wiszard]

Because not everyone is trying to draw a tag EVERY year. Hence the point saver. If you want to some day draw a tag you HAVE TO buy a point every year. In a random draw you put in on a year you know you will likely hunt if you draw.

Point is, some people, whether for financial reasons or known work obligations or familial obligations or whatever might not want that deer tag this year. So in a random drawbthey just don't put in. With a point system you have to. Equals more money for CA fish and game.

MANY peopldobby points only in MANY states.

When points started I had zero desire to hunt sheep so I didn't apply for them. Now I wouldn't mind a sheep hunt, still not big on it but the fact that my interest has changed a bit makes me wish I had max points. But the random on some sheep hunts in CA may have almost as good of a chance as the points? Idk? I haven't looked to deep into that.

I NEVER had interest in hunting elk.....although I knew that buying points was important is some states so I would buy points. I drew a Monroe late rifle elk tag with 10 NR points (very lucky) and it was my first antlered elk tag....I was 47. I got hooked on it and wished I had bought AZ points. I had only bought points in NV and Utah. I am really late to the game but had I not bought points when I had no interest, I would NEVER have the opportunity to hunt elk. I am glad I did.

 

[LIK2HNT]

I NEVER had interest in hunting elk.....although I knew that buying points was important is some states so I would buy points. I drew a Monroe late rifle elk tag with 10 NR points (very lucky) and it was my first antlered elk tag....I was 47. I got hooked on it and wished I had bought AZ points. I had only bought points in NV and Utah. I am really late to the game but had I not bought points when I had no interest, I would NEVER have the opportunity to hunt elk. I am glad I did.

Same thought applies to other species. When already buying a license and applying why not add the rest.

 

[Rie bread]

The idea that the Forest Service and big timber companies are doing something positive by replanting these massive pine plantations is the biggest scam in the resource management world. Disgusting.

I hate meddling by Government into private business but this is one area that I think they need to be more involved.

My favorite is when a private company can lock a gate to public land….