Management Strategies

[elks96]

So we all know the deer issues etc. Lots of options and lots of opinions.

So I had a few thoughts to throw out there...

First of all the state managers work for us. Granted they have to consider several different user groups, political influence, etc. But ultimately they work for the residents of WY. With that being said, I believe that the only way they are going to work is through our pressure... With that being said, here are a few things I think they should tackle...

1. Mandatory Reporting after every hunt. What units you hunted, what and how many days in that unit, were you successful, what did you kill. Once we have this good solid data we might see some easy tweaks to the season structures etc. But to fully understand the issue we need the data.

2. Put more restrictions on NR. Now I am not saying get rid of NR but adjust seasons to adjust pressure. Shorter seasons for NR? Resident only for first 3 days? Make NR pick a specific unit with in a region to spread pressure.

3. Shorten seasons... Areas where the numbers are really down, go to a 4 day hunt? But it seems crazy that some areas with low numbers are open for 2 weeks.

4. Make residents select a region on a general tag and stay only in that region? This gives residents access to licenses every year, but prevents unit hoping etc. If you want to hunt G then G it is... (Maybe create a bonus tag that you can apply for that allows only a small percent of general tags be good in all general units? Revenue generation stream?)

5. Create regional committee/working groups to identify areas that can become walkin access only closing of vehicle access during hunting season. This will create sanctuary areas especially in desert areas where the animals have a chance to escape the constant pressure of ATVs on every ridge and in every bottom. These areas could work similar to other areas where vehicle access is permitted at set times only when retrieving an animal with a punched license. (For the areas I hunt, I have no doubt that this one adjustment could make a significant difference in the quality of the hunt and of the deer).

What do you think? I know some may not be popular, but the very last thing I want is for state wide draw... I will make some sacrifices as a resident to avoid a state wide draw at all cost...

 

[fullthrottle]

I agree with 1, 4, & 5.

 

[HiMtnHntr]

A few of those have already been put in place, namely 2 (to some extent) and 3. Based on your posts, you recently moved here and had a good resident season. How much better can it really get?

 

[Chesterwyo]

I think we need to ban traveling at night from the first of November till the end of April. And cow elk should be cancelled. That would fix a good portion of the problem. Or people should just learn to have a little more restraint when it comes to killing every fuggin’ thing they see with deer horns on it.

 

[fullthrottle]

Haha

 

[2pines]

they let you pay $25 or so for a doe. How about the same for a management buck with your tag. If your looking for revenue have an archery season, rifle and muzzle loader. Ive always liked Wyo because they dont change things up every year.

 

[WapitiBob]

How 'bout $125 for a doe tag, $25 is a joke.

 

[SlowElk]

As a non-resident, and having never hunted in Wyoming, I would agree with the region restrictions. That would pressure me to learn an area, and I'd then try for the same tags in the future.

 

[nfh]

how about eliminate some of the cry baby non-residents. Note the word SOME!!! All the ones that cry and want to change rules they loose hunting rights in Wyoming for 5 years.


Also the ones that still find a way to sell gps locations should be shut down. I guess they call selling a drainage now or some package??? All they did was take gps out of their words. You guys know who I am talking about.


My goal in this post was to light a fire!!!!!!!!!

 

[elks96]

How 'bout $125 for a doe tag, $25 is a joke.

Since those are management tags, not sure they have much effect, but I do agree that any area below objective should not have any doe/fawn tags at all. If we are below objective we should not be killing and doe at all. The only exception would be specific depredation hunts on specific properties.

 

[elks96]

I think we need to ban traveling at night from the first of November till the end of April. And cow elk should be cancelled. That would fix a good portion of the problem. Or people should just learn to have a little more restraint when it comes to killing every fuggin’ thing they see with deer horns on it.

I grew up in Colorado and drove high way 13 from Rifle to Baggs a ton. They did a study on sections of that highway. They reduced night time speed limits in the migration areas from 65 to 55. Then they doubled all fines for speeding in these areas from 7:00 pm to 7:00 am from Sept to May. The study was during the height of Oil and gas traffic and they show a 30% reduction in vehicle collisions.

Not sure how that applies, but it is an option. Along with massive fencing project done correctly with multiple over passes and underpasses for deer and elk to migrate.

 

[elks96]

A few of those have already been put in place, namely 2 (to some extent) and 3. Based on your posts, you recently moved here and had a good resident season. How much better can it really get?

So for reference I have been hunting in WY for about 20 years. For many I was on the winter ranges hammering coyotes. My first coyote hunt in the Baggs area was back in 2001. Then for winters from 2004-12 I spent about 40 days on the winter range killing coyotes. 2012 to 2019 I hunted a handful of coyotes hunts each winter and have spent a ton of time with a good friend on the general deer hunts etc. I have had 5 general deer tags now and this years buck was the smallest I have killed in WY.

The reason why I point this out is yes I am a new resident but have spent a ton of time in WY (specifically southern WY). I did notice a significant difference in the areas I usually hunt in 2 ways. 1. There were hardly any yearlings at all in both the deer and lope herds. The overall number of deer and lopes were down significantly. The flips side I saw more hunters in my usual areas than normal. Not just a few but like 3-4 times more than normal.

I honestly love a lot about WY system, but I also know that things as they are may not be sustainable. My biggest issue is reliable data and honesty from the the game and fish. Simply put the deer and lopes in the Baggs area got hammered last winter it was almost as bad as 07/08 but they claimed it really wasn't etc.

I will fight against a resident draw only deer system as hard as I can and feel that there are many options and different things we can do before we go to limited deer for residents.

 

[jm77]

So for reference I have been hunting in WY for about 20 years. For many I was on the winter ranges hammering coyotes. My first coyote hunt in the Baggs area was back in 2001. Then for winters from 2004-12 I spent about 40 days on the winter range killing coyotes. 2012 to 2019 I hunted a handful of coyotes hunts each winter and have spent a ton of time with a good friend on the general deer hunts etc. I have had 5 general deer tags now and this years buck was the smallest I have killed in WY.

The reason why I point this out is yes I am a new resident but have spent a ton of time in WY (specifically southern WY). I did notice a significant difference in the areas I usually hunt in 2 ways. 1. There were hardly any yearlings at all in both the deer and lope herds. The overall number of deer and lopes were down significantly. The flips side I saw more hunters in my usual areas than normal. Not just a few but like 3-4 times more than normal.

I honestly love a lot about WY system, but I also know that things as they are may not be sustainable. My biggest issue is reliable data and honesty from the the game and fish. Simply put the deer and lopes in the Baggs area got hammered last winter it was almost as bad as 07/08 but they claimed it really wasn't etc.

I will fight against a resident draw only deer system as hard as I can and feel that there are many options and different things we can do before we go to limited deer for residents.

Honestly, you are wasting your time on a hunting forum with this post if you are looking for meaningful results. What you need to do is become active in attending G&F regular and Commission meetings. Get to know the local G&F folks in Lander. Participation at that level is where you need to, not on here frankly, no offense to anyone that comments here.

It is funny though, now that you are a resident, you suggest restrictions on nonresidents.

 

[Wyo_Roadhunter]

Scout, scout, scout, and scout some more and you will find a big buck to shoot. I don't expect to drive to Colorado one time and see a world class deer in the 1st draw I look in, so I'm not seeing why people think they should in Wyoming. I was in what would be region G today hunting elk and saw 8 bucks this morning from the road. They are there, they're just not as stupid as everyone thinks they are....

I do agree though I would give up some to keep our over the counter tags but I don't see the need for it...

 

[SS!]

Scout, scout, scout, and scout some more and you will find a big buck to shoot. I don't expect to drive to Colorado one time and see a world class deer in the 1st draw I look in, so I'm not seeing why people think they should in Wyoming. I was in what would be region G today hunting elk and saw 8 bucks this morning from the road. They are there, they're just not as stupid as everyone thinks they are....

I do agree though I would give up some to keep our over the counter tags but I don't see the need for it...

Agreed. Region G doesn’t have a deer problem. It has a Utah problem

 

[elks96]

Honestly, you are wasting your time on a hunting forum with this post if you are looking for meaningful results. What you need to do is become active in attending G&F regular and Commission meetings. Get to know the local G&F folks in Lander. Participation at that level is where you need to, not on here frankly, no offense to anyone that comments here.

It is funny though, now that you are a resident, you suggest restrictions on nonresidents.

Yeah I have already been in contact. It has been really hard due to the COVID shut down. I was very active in Colorado and plan to be more active here in WY. I posed the questions to get reactions, I like having conversations around these issues as the provide insight to downfalls, better ideas, etc. I specifically asked on WY forum to get more Feedback from others in WY.

 

[highfastflyer]

Your options fail to address many of the core problems of mule deer in Wyoming. 1. A large growth in the elk herds which eat the same forage as verified by Dr. Kevin Monteith. 2. Far too many Lion, wolf and coyote predators killing the herds. 3. Many herds are now heavily with CWD and likely the herds will continue to dwindle in numbers. 4. The Wyoming and Sublette Range herds have restricted a great deal the Non-Resident licenses but the Residents still can hunt on a General License hunt. Many of these General areas need to go to a limited quota hunt. 5. The explosion in long range rifles, high tech gadgets like trail cameras, scopes, 1000 yard shots and high technological equipment making it difficult for deer to survive. Address these problems then we can discuss some of the smaller fixes you suggest.

 

[fullthrottle]

Is there anything out there that shows a significant negative impact on an overall deer population in regards to CWD? I only ask because elk numbers continue to rise in CWD areas? Why is that? After all CWD is a significant factor... right?

 

[highfastflyer]

Is there anything out there that shows a significant negative impact on an overall deer population in regards to CWD? I only ask because elk numbers continue to rise in CWD areas? Why is that? After all CWD is a significant factor... right?

Huge declines in deer numbers. Many studies have shown declines of nearly 45% in just 10 years. It affects all big game but elk and moose so far have not experienced such declines as both the white tail and Mule deer herds. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0161127

 

[fullthrottle]

Huh, information. Kind interesting that whitetail populations are actually growing along with the spread of CWD.

 

[wytex]

Not all the deer herds are declining so drastically.
I've put the premise out that shorter deer season lead to more younger deer being taken at meetings. Lots of folks hunt for the meat, yes they would like a nice buck but with shorter seasons they tend to take the 1st legal buck they see.
Personally I don't want more restrictions on resident hunters. I like to have the privileges of hunting an area or region and if not seeing what I want I can going elsewhere .

 

[highfastflyer]

Huh, information. Kind interesting that whitetail populations are actually growing along with the spread of CWD.

I find this statement the most shocking by the cooperative group of wildlife biologists. “ It is likely that CWD and hunter harvest, the main causes of mortality, have produced the young age structure observed in this population. At the current λ1, this population is not sustainable with possible extinction in 48 years at current levels of mortality and fecundity given the worst-case scenario of frequency dependent transmission.”

 

[wytex]

Funny thing about that paper and study, we know most all of those folks who wrote it, their mathematical models show the herd going to extinction in so many years but not one of them actually believes that premise. I have talked with some of the guys, some live out of state right now.
We hunt in the core CWD area, deer are not declining at an alarming rate and we regularly take mature bucks of 5+ years of age, oldest taken is 9 1/2 years old. Yes numbers are down but drought has been very drastic last couple of years, many years actually. Habitat is a limiting factor for the population in our area.
I've seen first hand when this area was a short season, guys taking fork horn bucks for the meat because that is what they saw during the shorter season. They lengthened the season and now you can find more mature bucks which is what WG&F wants taken out of this herd.

 

[Bookhead]

I think they need to do away with general tags. That DOES NOT mean there wont be any guaranteed tags there still would be. Theres no reason us as residents should be able to hunt from mid september till end of november all across the state with a rifle. Its rediculous and out dated. They do need to make harvest surveys mandatory they have no idea how many deer are being killed rite now.

 

[Gollywomper]

Not sure what the answer is, however as a new non resident I was surprised that most tags included an archery season as well. Why not offer some archery only tags vs the general good for both? A little more opportunity for some without increasing tag quota Much. How many NRs hunt both archery and rifle? Hopefully we can get some normal weather across the west to help things out.

 

[jm77]

I think they need to do away with general tags. That DOES NOT mean there wont be any guaranteed tags there still would be. Theres no reason us as residents should be able to hunt from mid september till end of november all across the state with a rifle. Its rediculous and out dated. They do need to make harvest surveys mandatory they have no idea how many deer are being killed rite now.

Mandatory surveys I agree with. Doing away with general license and all it affords me, not so much.

 

[jm77]

Not sure what the answer is, however as a new non resident I was surprised that most tags included an archery season as well. Why not offer some archery only tags vs the general good for both? A little more opportunity for some without increasing tag quota Much. How many NRs hunt both archery and rifle? Hopefully we can get some normal weather across the west to help things out.

Weapon specific tags belong in the states that have them, not Wyoming.

 

[Gollywomper]

Weapon specific tags belong in the states that have them, not Wyoming.

What is the answer? Unlimited resident region deer tags? Everyone is complaining they see more people than deer. What is the cause of this unusual amount of hunting pressure? Did they sell more nonresident tags this year? Did they sell more resident tags?
When they tally the licenses sold this year, across the US they will show hunter participation was up due to Covid. Vacations and travel plans were halted. So many folks who haven’t or don’t hunt regularly have taken to the field. Is that the cause of declining herd numbers this year? No but it magnifies the frustration people feel. I don’t know if there is 1 right answer. Hunters are the first to notice these downward trends sometimes it takes several years before F&G take action.

 

[SS!]

What is the answer? Unlimited resident region deer tags? Everyone is complaining they see more people than deer. What is the cause of this unusual amount of hunting pressure? Did they sell more nonresident tags this year? Did they sell more resident tags?
When they tally the licenses sold this year, across the US they will show hunter participation was up due to Covid. Vacations and travel plans were halted. So many folks who haven’t or don’t hunt regularly have taken to the field. Is that the cause of declining herd numbers this year? No but it magnifies the frustration people feel. I don’t know if there is 1 right answer. Hunters are the first to notice these downward trends sometimes it takes several years before F&G take action.

Can you tell me where buying a deer tag in Wyoming comes with agreement you’re not going to see other people?

Here’s what you tell the people complaining about seeing other people: find somewhere else to hunt and maybe do a little research and please have realistic expectations.

FFS people it’s going to be ok. I know of at least 8 bucks killed in region G this year that scored over 200”. How many were killed that I didn’t hear about? I don’t get on Facebook or Instagram, my circle is very tight.

please tell me another OTC region that produces so many 200” bucks? Most limited quota units in ALL states would have a hard time producing that many on a GREAT year. And to think G was down this year!

Plenty of bucks were seen by all and everyone had a chance to fill their tag. Sure maybe not as many bucks as years past but they could of been filled none the less. Until the day comes when you can’t fill your tag then I see no need to change the way it is now. And you think making it limited quota is going to fix it? You’re trying to fix something that doesn’t need fixed.

I know @slamdunk doesnt think a couple good winters will help. He also thinks coyotes kill more deer than all other mule deer deaths combined. Oh and he also doesn’t know what Wyoming deer units are legal to hunt on tags he helps with. But believe me when I say that a couple good winters and it’s amazing how fast those deer rebound. And believe me where there’s a 100 slamdunks on here that comment on chit they don’t know about.

It’s ok to want the residents of Wyoming to be on a draw for region G. You all are just jealous because it takes 7 points to draw it. And the residents get to hunt it every year! You think it’s not fair. We get it you’re jealous. And thankfully you’ll all too lazy to do anything about it besides post on monstermuleys.

 

[Gollywomper]

Jealous?............ Am I jealous? Hell yes. Do I think tag allocation In Wyoming is wrong? Absolutely not. It is what it is, those are the rules. Maybe I will be a Wyoming resident before too long.

 

[slamdunk]

@SS "I know @slamdunk doesnt think a couple good winters will help. He also thinks coyotes kill more deer than all other mule deer deaths combined. Oh and he also doesn’t know what Wyoming deer units are legal to hunt on tags he helps with. But believe me when I say that a couple good winters and it’s amazing how fast those deer rebound. And believe me where there’s a 100 slamdunks on here that comment on chit they don’t know about."

Hey Jay Leno, you really should find some new material......seriously.

Your exaggerated accusations and narcissistic comments are only a reflection on your character, not mine or anyone else's.

 

[SS!]

@SS "I know @slamdunk doesnt think a couple good winters will help. He also thinks coyotes kill more deer than all other mule deer deaths combined. Oh and he also doesn’t know what Wyoming deer units are legal to hunt on tags he helps with. But believe me when I say that a couple good winters and it’s amazing how fast those deer rebound. And believe me where there’s a 100 slamdunks on here that comment on chit they don’t know about."

Hey Jay Leno, you really should find some new material......seriously.

Your exaggerated accusations and narcissistic comments are only a reflection on your character, not mine or anyone else's.

Accusations? You mean facts right? Want me to back them up? Something you couldn’t do with your coyote comment ?

I don’t slamdunk a topic.

 

[slamdunk]

Accusations? You mean facts right? Want me to back them up? Something you couldn’t do with your coyote comment ?

I don’t slamdunk a topic.

"Plenty of bucks were seen by all and everyone had a chance to fill their tag."

Were you conducting interviews and checking stations at every entrance to Region G?
Or perhaps you are so knowledgeable that "you just know" how "everyone had a chance to fill their tag".......?

 

[Mooretitan]

I hope they keep OTC and I hope one day to possible live there and take advantage of it. Until then keep building points. I could probably draw it next year. But I might just wait it out and share my points with my son before he leaves for college. Who knows....

 

[huntin50]

I hunted WY. ID, and Utah this year. There are many factors why our deer are struggling in the west. Weather, winter kill and droughts, cars, predators, and more elk in SOME areas. The collaring research in Utah show that poor fawn survival mostly due to Lions, coyotes, and bobcats. The fawns that survive look good. ONE of the few things we can do is better manage predators.

Quality of bucks is a hunting and technology related issue. As mentioned we are better at killing. This is a problem as well.

 

[SS!]

I hunted WY. ID, and Utah this year. There are many factors why our deer are struggling in the west. Weather, winter kill and droughts, cars, predators, and more elk in SOME areas. The collaring research in Utah show that poor fawn survival mostly due to Lions, coyotes, and bobcats. The fawns that survive look good. ONE of the few things we can do is better manage predators.

Quality of bucks is a hunting and technology related issue. As mentioned we are better at killing. This is a problem as well.

If you really want to save mule deer in Utah start passing out birth control.

 

[slamdunk]

I hunted WY. ID, and Utah this year. There are many factors why our deer are struggling in the west. Weather, winter kill and droughts, cars, predators, and more elk in SOME areas. The collaring research in Utah show that poor fawn survival mostly due to Lions, coyotes, and bobcats. The fawns that survive look good. ONE of the few things we can do is better manage predators.

Quality of bucks is a hunting and technology related issue. As mentioned we are better at killing. This is a problem as well.

Bingo!!!

 

[Bookhead]

Mule deers biggest predators are vehicles and fork horn shooters and some 2x3 killers as well

 

[Bookhead]

Almost all western states have a very very generous predator management system. What they need to manage is hunters. That's all they can truly control

 

[SS!]

you want to get mule deer numbers back? Put birth control in Utah’s drinking water. Not only will there be more deer but you will get more sex too.

look at @slamdunk, hes committed to conservation and his right hand!

 

[grosventrehunter]

I think a state wide opener (general) where feasible would definitely help. I don't like the idea of making NR wait to hunt so that residents can kill their animals first. If a NR has a tag let them hunt the same dates as a resident. With that being said I do believe Wyoming should go 90/10 on all big game tags. Just my 2 cents.

 

[highfastflyer]

I think a state wide opener (general) where feasible would definitely help. I don't like the idea of making NR wait to hunt so that residents can kill their animals first. If a NR has a tag let them hunt the same dates as a resident. With that being said I do believe Wyoming should go 90/10 on all big game tags. Just my 2 cents.

At a minimum the southern end of area G should coincide with the northern end of G and area H. Many people hunt both openers on Sept. 15th then go back again to hunt the Oct. 1st rifle opener. This creates too big of a concentration of hunters and stirs the deer up excessively, keeps them moving and increases the harvest of too many younger bucks. I would like to see a few limited quota safe areas in G to protect the long term viability of the greatest deer herd in Wyoming.