Montana proposals to simplify big game regs.

Ditch digger

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Reading thru the proposed changes that are open for public comment. Seems they are eliminating some hunting districts and combining with others for some species. I did notice it is proposed to open more of the state up to general tags for elk, both bow and rifle.
 
Was rather pleased with what they put together. I was glad the 900 archery elk will be broken up. I really hope the question region 4 asked about shortening deer rifle seasons take hold. Hunting them through the rut is only negatively affect herds. I would also like them to propose if you draw a LE permit that is the only district you will be hunting deer or elk.
 
Was rather pleased with what they put together. I was glad the 900 archery elk will be broken up. I really hope the question region 4 asked about shortening deer rifle seasons take hold. Hunting them through the rut is only negatively affect herds. I would also like them to propose if you draw a LE permit that is the only district you will be hunting deer or elk.
Personally, growing up in Utah and seeing the way they manage deer, I prefer the way Montana does their seasons. Truth be told, the deer are less stressed, and hunters aren't pressured to take the first thing they see because of shorter seasons. overall, other than genetics, I believe that Montana has a much better deer experience than many other western states. I do agree with your mentioning of the LE permits. That's almost a gimmie in my book.
 
We could have much better experiences if we cut the rut hunting of bucks out. I believe we are the only western state that has an otc rut hunt. Just imagine if we give those rutting bucks a break and don’t hunt them during the rut. The quality of hunts would increase in my opinion and hunters won’t then have to settle for shooting every last two point. I’d rather see our deer make it to 4.5 years at least instead of seeing it at 2.5-3.5 tops.
 
Personally, growing up in Utah and seeing the way they manage deer, I prefer the way Montana does their seasons. Truth be told, the deer are less stressed, and hunters aren't pressured to take the first thing they see because of shorter seasons. overall, other than genetics, I believe that Montana has a much better deer experience than many other western states. I do agree with your mentioning of the LE permits. That's almost a gimmie in my book.
Have you hunted mule deer in Montana lately? mtmuley
 
I think eliminating the 900-20 elk archery tag is a good idea. The tag currently covers many HD's. A few that are far over objective will be combined and moved into a general tag area. Others will have there own region archery tags. Managing elk by region is a good idea. One thing I mentioned in my comments to FWP is the idea of having hunters in over objective units shoot a cow elk before they are allowed to shoot a bull. This would add pressure to private lands that often hold large numbers of elk and landowners and outfitters tightly regulate the elk harvest. Making all hunters take a cow would disperse elk , not allowing them to harbor large herds with minimal bull hunting.
I would also like to see a 4 point minimum on mule deer bucks, but I am guessing that will never go over, too many people are proud shooting 2 or 3 points instead of harvesting a doe....
 
Point restrictions on mule deer rarely work. mtmuley
100% true. One of the reasons we in Montana have a hard time growing big deer is that we do not feel pressured to shoot the first two or three point that walks by. If you want bigger deer you need to shoot more of the small ones that are unlikely to ever get big. Forcing hunters to shoot four points will result in fewer bucks with quality genetics that get old.
 
100% true. One of the reasons we in Montana have a hard time growing big deer is that we do not feel pressured to shoot the first two or three point that walks by. If you want bigger deer you need to shoot more of the small ones that are unlikely to ever get big. Forcing hunters to shoot four points will result in fewer bucks with quality genetics that get old.
In my visits to Montana, I have seen plenty of small bucks harvested. It is about self control, and few have it when it comes to mule deer. Please provide data showing antler restrictions do not work.
 
APR will make people shoot out those genes in my opinion. So if it’s a four point minimum on an antler every 4 point will get whacked. That leaves us with only deer with say the genetics of 2 and 3 points a side to pass on those genes. So what happens when we shoot out all the four point eligible deer? We gonna target 3 points next?

Yes people have to have control from whacking the small ones too. I think people would take deer hunting a bit more seriously if they had do declare a unit in which they hunt deer in, instead of the whole damn state. It sure would help out areas that are piss pounded. For example those that come east but live in the west would have to choose do I want to hunt in said east district or pick my unit to hunt with uncle Bob when he comes home to hunt.

Personally, I’d like to see them implement pick your district as well as weapon of choice. And that’s what you will get yo hunt in those respective seasons.
 
APR will make people shoot out those genes in my opinion. So if it’s a four point minimum on an antler every 4 point will get whacked. That leaves us with only deer with say the genetics of 2 and 3 points a side to pass on those genes. So what happens when we shoot out all the four point eligible deer? We gonna target 3 points next?

Yes people have to have control from whacking the small ones too. I think people would take deer hunting a bit more seriously if they had do declare a unit in which they hunt deer in, instead of the whole damn state. It sure would help out areas that are piss pounded. For example those that come east but live in the west would have to choose do I want to hunt in said east district or pick my unit to hunt with uncle Bob when he comes home to hunt.

Personally, I’d like to see them implement pick your district as well as weapon of choice. And that’s what you will get yo hunt in those respective seasons.
So, your saying currently, people shooting forks or 3 points are helping the deer herd, and promoting aging bucks?
 
I’d bet money on those 2 and 3 points that are currently being taken are 2.5-3.5 years old have not had the chance to fully mature in what they could be.
I doubt many 3 point mule deer ever get beyond that. They don't typically grow into big deer. Probably why district 270 has a 3 point permit. mtmuley
 
So, your saying currently, people shooting forks or 3 points are helping the deer herd, and promoting aging bucks?
Yes I am. Those yearling forks have about a 50% chance of being an above average buck for there age class later in life and there is a good chance they will fail to survive the elements and get be an old buck even with out hunting from humans. The chances that a 2 year old three point will never become an above average buck later in live is less than 50% and that percentage decreases with every year the buck continues to be a three point. On the other hand those young 2 and 3 year four point or better bucks have a much higher probability of being something special if they live past 5 or 6 years and with every year they grow older there chances of surviving the elements and reaching middle age increases.

People talk that all that is needed is restraint. Passing up young two and three points will do little to increase the number of truly big deer. I am a firm believer in being able to shoot what you are happy with but if your goal is larger bucks the restraint that is needed it to pass on three and four year old bucks that score in the 170's or better.
 
Google it yourself. But since you’re not capable of doing such an easy task here let me spoon feed it to you. Open your big mouth, here comes the spoon:


Now I know you’re not full so open your mouth again, type google into your browser and “antler point restrictions long term”

Eat up mother*********
No data at all in the link you shared. Statements made, but no data to support those statements.
Hopefully moderators look at this post. I bet your biceps are huge, you key board warrior you...
 
No data at all in the link you shared. Statements made, but no data to support those statements.
Hopefully moderators look at this post. I bet your biceps are huge, you key board warrior you...
Hit that little report button in the bottom part of the post.

Feel free to show “data” antler restrictions work. You know since you seem to know they do based off your Montana deer hunt.

Could you please provide “data” that correlates size of biceps to how much we hurt your feelings?
 
Good answer, you bring so much to the table. ditchdigger
Read what antleradar said. Mule deer management on another forum I am on has been analyzed top to bottom, side to side. I apologize. You want to read a ton of Montana mule deer knowledge, pm me. I can point you in the right direction. Also, some of the mule deer permit and boundary changes proposed in Montana are a bad idea. mtmuley
 
I couldn't find anywhere what the proposed tag numbers would be for the new 700's archery elk tag. Anyone know what they are proposing? With 4 BP's it's probably time for me to weigh that against a breaks tag.
 
I couldn't find anywhere what the proposed tag numbers would be for the new 700's archery elk tag. Anyone know what they are proposing? With 4 BP's it's probably time for me to weigh that against a breaks tag.
I’m guessing the new numbers of permits will be proposed after these changes are voted on. Discussion should start end of November early December.
 

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