Mr. Anti-public land, Mike Lee, needs to go

Oneye

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I witnessed, with my own eyes, at a political rally in southern Utah before the last presidential election, two signs being held by rally-goers, one that said, "White is Right" and the other said, "One Nation One Color"

PS. The "moron" and "loser" are unnecessary and what cause threads to be locked.
Racism is alive, well, and even emboldened over the last 5 years. Those pretending it isn’t are naive, or just flat out lying. And true. I’ll edit that out.
 

Oneye

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When was the last time you sat down and had a one-on-one conversation with a Black person about the racism they currently experience in Utah?

I honestly had no idea what minorities still go through here. My friend that I speak often with regarding his experiences of racism were mind-blowing to me. All I can do is acknowledge that he lives in a different world than I do, with me having grown up a straight white middle-class male in Utah and him growing up gay and Black in Detroit.

He thought being gay would be the more difficult obstacle when he moved to Utah, but found little resistance there. It is his race that has caused him the most angst.

It would be far too easy for me to sit in my shell and say racism didn't exist anymore, but after talking to him about it over the years, I know I'd be wrong. It absolutely does.
The people who say it’s on life support or not a legit problem….especially in a place like Utah….have never had that conversation one time and genuinely listened to a minority in the state. When it comes down to it, most will have plenty of racism to share they’ve experienced. Utah has a problem with it, and most here don’t want to admit or face it.
 

roadrunner

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The people who say it’s on life support or not a legit problem….especially in a place like Utah….have never had that conversation one time and genuinely listened to a minority in the state. When it comes down to it, most will have plenty of racism to share they’ve experienced. Utah has a problem with it, and most here don’t want to admit or face it.

On life support means it's popularity as a polarizing talking point is waning because people are sick to death on hearing about it.

What happens in UT should stay in UT as it thrives on keeping itself isolated from the rest of the world :rolleyes:
 

Oneye

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On life support means it's popularity as a polarizing talking point is waning because people are sick to death on hearing about it.

What happens in UT should stay in UT as it thrives on keeping itself isolated from the rest of the world :rolleyes:
I’m guessing black people are more tired of being called the N word at sporting events in the state. No what happens in Utah, shouldn’t stay in Utah, you don’t just get to sweep the ugly things that happen here under the rug. That’s also such a Utah attitude lol. A Duke student athlete at BYU a couple days ago was repeatedly called the N word and no one within ear shot said a word. If it’s on life support, that trash would have been shut down by those around the person real quick. Maybe once it is, the poor poor people who have to hear about racism won’t have to hear about it as much. You should try talking to an actual black person who’s lived in this state, long before whining about not having to hear about racism. Those who experience racism experience a much worse situation than you simply having to hear that it happened, I promise.
 
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Homer

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In the BIG world, not just the small world of Utah, we need more like Mike Lee.....if we lose the real fight this country is in.....you won't have deer hunting and camping in peace to worry about.....
 

roadrunner

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I’m guessing black people are more tired of being called the N word at sporting events in the state. No what happens in Utah, shouldn’t stay in Utah, you don’t just get to sweep the ugly things that happen here under the rug. That’s also such a Utah attitude lol. A Duke student athlete at BYU a couple days ago was repeatedly called the N word and no one within ear shot said a word. If it’s on life support, that trash would have been shut down by those around the person real quick. Maybe once it is, the poor poor people who have to hear about racism won’t have to hear about it as much. You should try talking to an actual black person who’s lived in this state, long before whining about not having to hear about racism. Those who experience racism experience a much worse situation than you simply having to hear that it happened, I promise.

Or, you can get out of the state into the real world and see how everyone else seems to get along in areas with mixed race. People of African descent are not the only "minorities" out there.

If the mindset of the typical rich prima-donna Provo-ite can stay confined in UT, the rest of us can continue to get along. Maybe eventually they'll look over the edge of the box they live in and realize the world is a big place.

I would challenge a particular MM member to do just that where he is the poster child to the slogan " Welcome to UT, land of wide roads and narrow minds". He knows who is is. I think...

And, it's a certain side of the political spectrum that tries to keep it alive.
 

Oneye

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In the BIG world, not just the small world of Utah, we need more like Mike Lee.....if we lose the real fight this country is in.....you won't have deer hunting and camping in peace to worry about.....
Lee hasn’t accomplished anything lol. A fighter? Dude has passed 6 bills in 12 years, 3 of them being the renaming of federal buildings. He has literally done nothing.
 

Oneye

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Or, you can get out of the state into the real world and see how everyone else seems to get along in areas with mixed race. People of African descent are not the only "minorities" out there.

If the mindset of the typical rich prima-donna Provo-ite can stay confined in UT, the rest of us can continue to get along. Maybe eventually they'll look over the edge of the box they live in and realize the world is a big place.

I would challenge a particular MM member to do just that where he is the poster child to the slogan " Welcome to UT, land of wide roads and narrow minds". He knows who is is. I think...

And, it's a certain side of the political spectrum that tries to keep it alive.
I am friends with many Hispanic families. They will tell you the exact same thing. You’re right, they aren’t the only minority, they’re just the smallest minority in the state and seem to have a terrible experience here. As I said, it goes beyond African Americans though. Plenty of Mexican people will tell you they’ve experienced plenty of racism in the state.

As for a certain side trying to keep it alive? Yeah BS. I do agree the left obsesses over it, but the right wants to pretend it’s not a legitimate issue, I’ve personally seen and heard plenty of racism in the state. And a state that’s 80% white and largely one religion and culture, it’s still very prevalent. A place like Provo that’s like 1% black, could probably say something when a student athlete is being subjected to the N word being thrown at them over and over in front of a large group of people. One person? Okay, the truly embarrassing thing is that no adult around the situation could put that person in their place. In the last few years this has happened at Jazz games multiple times, and several high school sporting events. NBA players will always say Utah sticks out. Don’t say the N word people, don’t be racist, it’s not hard, and put people in check who let that disgusting word to cross their lips.

I like Utah, wonderful place, a lot of great people here, but racism is a conversation that is needed here, and not one that needs to be swept under the rug.
 

Homer

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Lee hasn’t accomplished anything lol. A fighter? Dude has passed 6 bills in 12 years, 3 of them being the renaming of federal buildings. He has literally done nothing.
Exactly what I want a senator to do.....that.....and constantly vote NO
 

Oneye

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Exactly what I want a senator to do.....that.....and constantly vote NO
He’s also accomplished stopping nothing. Debt seems to keep going up? PS, voting no on everything never fixes anything. He’s also not the deciding vote on any legislation. No one cares what Mike Lee has to say. Now if you have someone like Joe Manchin who isn’t an automatic partisan hack vote like Lee, well, then you and your state hold power on congress. Mike Lee has none.
 

Homer

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Joe Manchin is just slow getting aboard the leftist money machine....but he always gets on board.....
 

Vanilla

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How did this thread turn into a 1-eye race rant? What happened at BYU was terrible, but what does it have to do with this forum?

If we in this state could isolate from 1-eye and roadrunner, that would be awesome! Both hate Utah, so no need to be here. We should build a wall to keep them out and make NM pay for it.
 

JakeH

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I am friends with many Hispanic families. They will tell you the exact same thing. You’re right, they aren’t the only minority, they’re just the smallest minority in the state and seem to have a terrible experience here. As I said, it goes beyond African Americans though. Plenty of Mexican people will tell you they’ve experienced plenty of racism in the state.

As for a certain side trying to keep it alive? Yeah BS. I do agree the left obsesses over it, but the right wants to pretend it’s not a legitimate issue, I’ve personally seen and heard plenty of racism in the state. And a state that’s 80% white and largely one religion and culture, it’s still very prevalent. A place like Provo that’s like 1% black, could probably say something when a student athlete is being subjected to the N word being thrown at them over and over in front of a large group of people. One person? Okay, the truly embarrassing thing is that no adult around the situation could put that person in their place. .
So big dog, what did you do to put a stop to the racism you personally witnessed???
 

Oneye

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So big dog, what did you do to put a stop to the racism you personally witnessed???
I have no issue calling out racism. I guess that should be a pretty simple answer from any of us willing to call it what it is when we see it happening. I’m not afraid to be an ******* to someone acting like an *******. Some racism is simple. Dumb jokes, stereotypical comments. If you’re around me, I’ll gladly call you on it. Admittedly I wasn’t this way at one time, but I am now. Racism is wrong, has caused some of the most ugly moments in history, and has no place in our society or state. End of story. If someone was at a sporting event of any kind shouting the N word, I can assure you, I would not let their trashy behavior just go by.
 

Gator

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No matter what state you go into there will be some type of minority that is on the receiving end of some form of racism. Now those Standby and watch it are as guilty as those hollering it out. I would like to think we was raised better then those yelling out the racism names. I know I was.
Since I raised a black foster son. I have never stood by and watched or heard anyone call him the N word.
Here in this state he was stopped alot of times for driving a nice car and being black he learned to keep both hands on the steering wheel.
So Oneye guess you and I are on the same page. Welcome to the club
 

Oneye

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No matter what state you go into there will be some type of minority that is on the receiving end of some form of racism. Now those Standby and watch it are as guilty as those hollering it out. I would like to think we was raised better then those yelling out the racism names. I know I was.
Since I raised a black foster son. I have never stood by and watched or heard anyone call him the N word.
Here in this state he was stopped alot of times for driving a nice car and being black he learned to keep both hands on the steering wheel.
So Oneye guess you and I are on the same page. Welcome to the club
It’s really quite simple. Racism is evil stuff, and among the lowest intelligence of an attack one can make. Too many people who have never talked a minority about it, raised a black child like you have, or really opened their mind to how ugly it makes us all look, especially when someone is yelling the N word and no one stops them, need to take a step back and consider more than they currently have. @JakeH the answer to the question you posed to me should be a simple one. You should call it out, not passively watch it happen. Idk, that answer has become really simple for me for a long time now. I don’t tolerate it.
 

wstrntines

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When was the last time you sat down and had a one-on-one conversation with a Black person about the racism they currently experience in Utah?

I honestly had no idea what minorities still go through here. My friend that I speak often with regarding his experiences of racism were mind-blowing to me. All I can do is acknowledge that he lives in a different world than I do, with me having grown up a straight white middle-class male in Utah and him growing up gay and Black in Detroit.

He thought being gay would be the more difficult obstacle when he moved to Utah, but found little resistance there. It is his race that has caused him the most angst.

It would be far too easy for me to sit in my shell and say racism didn't exist anymore, but after talking to him about it over the years, I know I'd be wrong. It absolutely does.
Usually when I’ve had conversations with people of a different color of skin. They’ve actually praised how good it is living in America and how far it’s come. I can remember 1 co-worker who screamed racist this racist that, but there was a pattern of victimhood. And he hated everyone that was white. There is zero nobility in victimhood. There is however in overcoming it. Perhaps people should quit making victimhood their identity. Racism is on life support. Post your little one off cases of some sh!t bag all you want. Sure there is always going to be a few hateful miserable people guess what they hate themselves and everyone. But I do not see people walking down the street interacting in racist manner. I see people smiling, laughing, and being great humans. So yeah the race card don’t fly. And the people who virtue signal to people of other races are the real problem. Perhaps you should go watch some more MSNBC
 

Oneye

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Usually when I’ve had conversations with people of a different color of skin. They’ve actually praised how good it is living in America and how far it’s come. I can remember 1 co-worker who screamed racist this racist that, but there was a pattern of victimhood. And he hated everyone that was white. There is zero nobility in victimhood. There is however in overcoming it. Perhaps people should quit making victimhood their identity. Racism is on life support. Post your little one off cases of some sh!t bag all you want. Sure there is always going to be a few hateful miserable people guess what they hate themselves and everyone. But I do not see people walking down the street interacting in racist manner. I see people smiling, laughing, and being great humans. So yeah the race card don’t fly. And the people who virtue signal to people of other races are the real problem. Perhaps you should go watch some more MSNBC
You’re missing the point. The problem isn’t there’s always going to be one. Sure there’ll always be shitty people. The problem is packed stadiums around them don’t say a word. I love how you say all this…as an obvious white guy, from one of the least diverse places in America. You would know best(super heavy sarcasm).
 

grizzly

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Usually when I’ve had conversations with people of a different color of skin. They’ve actually praised how good it is living in America and how far it’s come. I can remember 1 co-worker who screamed racist this racist that, but there was a pattern of victimhood. And he hated everyone that was white. There is zero nobility in victimhood. There is however in overcoming it. Perhaps people should quit making victimhood their identity. Racism is on life support. Post your little one off cases of some sh!t bag all you want. Sure there is always going to be a few hateful miserable people guess what they hate themselves and everyone. But I do not see people walking down the street interacting in racist manner. I see people smiling, laughing, and being great humans. So yeah the race card don’t fly. And the people who virtue signal to people of other races are the real problem. Perhaps you should go watch some more MSNBC
I've literally seen with my own two eyes in Kanab, UT two people holding signs in the midst of a rally (I'll let you guess for which President) that said, "White Is Right" and "One Nation One Color"

Not a single other rally-goer intervened, they were accepted in and part of the crowd just as anybody else. Would you have done anything or just cheered along side them?

And by the way, my friend I was referring to above that you alluded to playing the identity of victimhood... he's a successful businessman. I literally don't know how many cars he has right now, but one is a Shelby Mustang and two are German Sportscars that cost six-figures each. I'm pretty sure he "overcame it."

You can keep watching Tucker, I'll watch the real world and real people living it.
 

Oneye

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I've literally seen with my own two eyes in Kanab, UT two people holding signs in the midst of a rally (I'll let you guess for which President) that said, "White Is Right" and "One Nation One Color"

Not a single other rally-goer intervened, they were accepted in and part of the crowd just as anybody else. Would you have done anything or just cheered along side them?

And by the way, my friend I was referring to above that you alluded to playing the identity of victimhood... he's a successful businessman. I literally don't know how many cars he has right now, but one is a Shelby Mustang and two are German Sportscars that cost six-figures each. I'm pretty sure he "overcame it."

You can keep watching Tucker, I'll watch the real world and real people living it.
He would have cheered and laughed along side them. The people who will let racism fly without a second thought are definitely most frequently the ones who want to convince the rest of us “it’s not real anymore”. It’s funny that it’s hilariously obvious where a few of the posters on here get every talking point they have. Go watch some more brain rot(Fox). (Btw this applies to News stations like MSNBC too, but for the current environment here on MM, the brain rot is certainly Fox News for several members).
 

Homer

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I've literally seen with my own two eyes in Kanab, UT two people holding signs in the midst of a rally (I'll let you guess for which President) that said, "White Is Right" and "One Nation One Color"

Not a single other rally-goer intervened, they were accepted in and part of the crowd just as anybody else. Would you have done anything or just cheered along side them?

And by the way, my friend I was referring to above that you alluded to playing the identity of victimhood... he's a successful businessman. I literally don't know how many cars he has right now, but one is a Shelby Mustang and two are German Sportscars that cost six-figures each. I'm pretty sure he "overcame it."

You can keep watching Tucker, I'll watch the real world and real people living it.
I thought you lefties were the freedom loving tolerant people….in your country, you’re not allowed to be a hateful idiot?

Speech you agree with doesn’t need protection….

Just because hateful idiots don’t get beat to death by the crowd doesn’t mean the crowd likes or agrees with what they are sayin…
 

Oneye

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I thought you lefties were the freedom loving tolerant people….in your country, you’re not allowed to be a hateful idiot?

Speech you agree with doesn’t need protection….

Just because hateful idiots don’t get beat to death by the crowd doesn’t mean the crowd likes or agrees with what they are sayin…
Not one person asked for that. But something should be said by those around the person. You have the right to say whatever shitty thing you want, but the reaction to it should be swift and strong.
 

wetmule

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Glad to see the Governor and McMullin call out the actions of the incident. Of course old Mikey won’t be doing so:

Figures
 

Oneye

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371
Figures
To be clear, I’d be happy if this was the case, because initially it looked really bad. I’ve looked at a few things of late, and the godmother who posted the original account is not exactly upstanding in several things she said. If it's fake, quite frankly those who faked it should be held to account, because it became a nationwide story. It's possible someone other than the original person they banned is responsible, it's also possible it did not in fact happen. I'm open to either outcome......but racism is still bad so that point has not evaded the conversation here.
 

JakeH

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Figures
I figured it was BS, I find it very very hard to believe someone in a crowd full of people would yell the N word once yet alone multiple times especially on a college campus. Just doesn't pass the BS meter test.
 

wstrntines

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I've literally seen with my own two eyes in Kanab, UT two people holding signs in the midst of a rally (I'll let you guess for which President) that said, "White Is Right" and "One Nation One Color"

Not a single other rally-goer intervened, they were accepted in and part of the crowd just as anybody else. Would you have done anything or just cheered along side them?

And by the way, my friend I was referring to above that you alluded to playing the identity of victimhood... he's a successful businessman. I literally don't know how many cars he has right now, but one is a Shelby Mustang and two are German Sportscars that cost six-figures each. I'm pretty sure he "overcame it."

You can keep watching Tucker, I'll watch the real world and real people living it.
Yeah I’d have told them they are a piece of ****. And ripped that sign out of his hands. Did you say anything to the guy or just keep complicitly filming them with your smart phone. If your buddy complains about it still he still hasn’t overcome it. But congrats to him I love seeing people win I hope he buys a truckload of Ferraris cause he can. Those are cool cars and I used to think only Rich D-bags drove them. Then I realized one day if you hate on others success your just keeping yourself from winning. Funny you bash Tucker Carlson so bad I’ve literally watched him call out both sides of the establishment so you really have a dead argument. You should come meet my neighbors black granddaughter and spew your racism is so prevalent card. She’ll school you with statistics 7 ways to Sunday. Her mom told her she should apply for scholarships based on her skin color and she’d get in to any university. She flat out told her mom she’ll go to a university on merit not race.
 

wstrntines

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To be clear, I’d be happy if this was the case, because initially it looked really bad. I’ve looked at a few things of late, and the godmother who posted the original account is not exactly upstanding in several things she said. If it's fake, quite frankly those who faked it should be held to account, because it became a nationwide story. It's possible someone other than the original person they banned is responsible, it's also possible it did not in fact happen. I'm open to either outcome......but racism is still bad so that point has not evaded the conversation here.
What are your thoughts on Lebron James calling out that police officer who saved a black girl Ma’kia Bryant was stabbing. Does his oppressed ass get a pass. Or him saying he’s done with white people. Did you create a thread to stop the racism.
 

Homer

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What are your thoughts on Lebron James calling out that police officer who saved a black girl Ma’kia Bryant was stabbing. Does his oppressed ass get a pass. Or him saying he’s done with white people. Did you create a thread to stop the racism.
lol....
 

notdonhunting

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I've literally seen with my own two eyes in Kanab, UT two people holding signs in the midst of a rally (I'll let you guess for which President) that said, "White Is Right" and "One Nation One Color"

Not a single other rally-goer intervened, they were accepted in and part of the crowd just as anybody else. Would you have done anything or just cheered along side them?

And by the way, my friend I was referring to above that you alluded to playing the identity of victimhood... he's a successful businessman. I literally don't know how many cars he has right now, but one is a Shelby Mustang and two are German Sportscars that cost six-figures each. I'm pretty sure he "overcame it."

You can keep watching Tucker, I'll watch the real world and real people living it.
As much as I do not agree with what was writing on them signs, I would stand to the side of them for their rights to have them signs.

Freedom of speech is a principal pillar of a free government; when this support is taken away, the constitution of a free society is dissolved, and tyranny is erected on its ruins.
BENJAMIN FRANKLIN
 

Oneye

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What are your thoughts on Lebron James calling out that police officer who saved a black girl Ma’kia Bryant was stabbing. Does his oppressed ass get a pass. Or him saying he’s done with white people. Did you create a thread to stop the racism.
Umm…no, Lebron doesn’t get a pass when he’s says something dumb, and I’ve never implied or said that. Leftists, activists, and Lebron routinely say things that aren’t true or are harmful to the conversation. Here’s what I’ve said….Racism is bad, always bad, and has been the cause of the greatest atrocity in this countries history, and in a state that’s 80% white, most communities throughout the state significantly more than that, SLC is the only place with much diversity at all, it’s a conversation that’s needed more, not less just because most are uncomfortable with it. Most communities in this state are 90-95% white and 70+% Mormon.that’s not a diverse perspective, especially on the issue of race. The fact you defend Tucker Carlsons rhetoric and actually admit you do sit there and watch Fox News brain rot, tells me how much I value your opinion anyway. As I said, MSNBC is the same thing, just the polar opposite, but it’s sad how much people convince themselves their side isn’t extreme. Yours is too. Tucker Carlson is every bit as dishonest and partisan as any MSNBC host, so please some of you….stop pretending your favorite garbage partisan rhetoric spewer, isn’t a problem.
 

Oneye

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As much as I do not agree with what was writing on them signs, I would stand to the side of them for their rights to have them signs.

Freedom of speech is a principal pillar of a free government; when this support is taken away, the constitution of a free society is dissolved, and tyranny is erected on its ruins.
BENJAMIN FRANKLIN
Lol, no…you don’t get to complicity support racism by standing aside and cloak it under “I support their right to do it”. No one is saying go kick their ass or rip the sign out of their hands. But yes, they can absolutely get an ear full over their racist hatful bigotry that’s waaaaay to prevalent in rural Utah. You don’t have to kick someone’s ass. It’s also my freedom to call them the racist pieces of **** they are and that they’re an embarrassment to he human race, and scum of the earth.
 

notdonhunting

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Lol, no…you don’t get to complicity support racism by standing aside and cloak it under “I support their right to do it”. No one is saying go kick their ass or rip the sign out of their hands. But yes, they can absolutely get an ear full over their racist hatful bigotry that’s waaaaay to prevalent in rural Utah. You don’t have to kick someone’s ass. It’s also my freedom to call them the racist pieces of **** they are and that they’re an embarrassment to he human race, and scum of the earth.
No support of racism here, get off your high horse you don't know all that you claim you know.
Grizz clearly stated no one intervened.
Intervened means stopped so my response is accurate about defending free speech.
Sorry but was you at that political rally?
If you wasn't you have no idea if someone gave them an ear full.
I doubt Johnny Bangeter or any other of the white supremacist would really care what you had to say to them.
You are pretty tough as a keyboard warrior..
 

Oneye

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No support of racism here, get off your high horse you don't know all that you claim you know.
Grizz clearly stated no one intervened.
Intervened means stopped so my response is accurate about defending free speech.
Sorry but was you at that political rally?
If you wasn't you have no idea if someone gave them an ear full.
I doubt Johnny Bangeter or any other of the white supremacist would really care what you had to say to them.
You are pretty tough as a keyboard warrior..
That’s not what Grizz stated lol. Intervening can simply mean telling them off or saying something. For instance, if someone’s yelling the N word in a crowded stadium, telling them to stop and shouting them down, is intervening. PS use “were” and “weren’t” in place of “was” and “wasn’t” in your post here.
 

Vanilla

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What if someone isn’t yelling the n word in a crowded stadium? Then what would you have the rest of the racism complicit second hand citizens you are forced to put up with do?

And what does this have to do with public lands and hunting?
 

wetmule

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The default position on these race hoaxes should be to assume they are lying. No one in their right mind in today's age would do such a thing as your life would be completely ruined. These Joocy Smollet type hoaxes need to be prosecuted if they are to end. It only detracts from and minimizes any real racism.

 

Broomer

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Oneye-

Cox is a closest homo!!!

Romney voted for abortion in Mass as governor

Cox- scolded all of us for not wanting to wear a mask. He literally yelled in a press conference at the citizenry of Utah. What a dip Sh!t

Cox- supports Ukraine which is one of the most corrupt government in all the world. They literally are the source of the Golden Shower Dossier. For what? And he literally threw all the Russian people that are here right here in our own state under the bus. He is a Moran!!!

Cox- didn’t answer the pronoun question to a 12 year old you dumb fxxk. She literally told him what hers were and rather than saying something like ok thank you, he decided to answer by first starting the answer with his fxxxking pronouns, he is a closet homo period end.

And what did trump do or say that you didn’t read or hear about via the media first (who lies about everything anyway the man says)? And who the freak cares if he makes fun of people. He governed this country like a pro! The guy was amazing, and he ran circles around everyone in Washington. He made them so mad that they had to literally create a fake riot at the capital to impeach him.

Lastly- most Bills that have something about public lands don’t do sh!t for keeping them public, rather they are laced with pork or some other legislation that if you really understood it you would vote against it too. Maybe Lee sees those issues and sees the crap the bill is trying to sneak in.
 

notdonhunting

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Oneye-

Cox is a closest homo!!!

Romney voted for abortion in Mass as governor

Cox- scolded all of us for not wanting to wear a mask. He literally yelled in a press conference at the citizenry of Utah. What a dip Sh!t

Cox- supports Ukraine which is one of the most corrupt government in all the world. They literally are the source of the Golden Shower Dossier. For what? And he literally threw all the Russian people that are here right here in our own state under the bus. He is a Moran!!!

Cox- didn’t answer the pronoun question to a 12 year old you dumb fxxk. She literally told him what hers were and rather than saying something like ok thank you, he decided to answer by first starting the answer with his fxxxking pronouns, he is a closet homo period end.

And what did trump do or say that you didn’t read or hear about via the media first (who lies about everything anyway the man says)? And who the freak cares if he makes fun of people. He governed this country like a pro! The guy was amazing, and he ran circles around everyone in Washington. He made them so mad that they had to literally create a fake riot at the capital to impeach him.

Lastly- most Bills that have something about public lands don’t do sh!t for keeping them public, rather they are laced with pork or some other legislation that if you really understood it you would vote against it too. Maybe Lee sees those issues and sees the crap the bill is trying to sneak in.
You must be from Fairview. 😉
 

Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
Oneye-

Cox is a closest homo!!!

Romney voted for abortion in Mass as governor

Cox- scolded all of us for not wanting to wear a mask. He literally yelled in a press conference at the citizenry of Utah. What a dip Sh!t

Cox- supports Ukraine which is one of the most corrupt government in all the world. They literally are the source of the Golden Shower Dossier. For what? And he literally threw all the Russian people that are here right here in our own state under the bus. He is a Moran!!!

Cox- didn’t answer the pronoun question to a 12 year old you dumb fxxk. She literally told him what hers were and rather than saying something like ok thank you, he decided to answer by first starting the answer with his fxxxking pronouns, he is a closet homo period end.

And what did trump do or say that you didn’t read or hear about via the media first (who lies about everything anyway the man says)? And who the freak cares if he makes fun of people. He governed this country like a pro! The guy was amazing, and he ran circles around everyone in Washington. He made them so mad that they had to literally create a fake riot at the capital to impeach him.

Lastly- most Bills that have something about public lands don’t do sh!t for keeping them public, rather they are laced with pork or some other legislation that if you really understood it you would vote against it too. Maybe Lee sees those issues and sees the crap the bill is trying to sneak in.
Broomer, Cox has one of the highest approval ratings of any Governor/Politician in the country, and for the most part I’m one of those who approves of his job as Governor. It’s funny when people like yourself live up to the whole “deplorable” comment Clinton labeled you as. You go on a homophobic, gross tirade here, and frankly I don’t care to have any further conversation with a moron like you. Don’t bother replying to me, you’re a gross human being.
 
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Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
And, here is one of several Republicans in the state (former Utah County Republican commissioner Tanner Ainge) endorsing McMullin.

Gee......Republicans endorsing him, Lee voting for him for President 6 years ago.....why it's almost as if McMullin has been a conservative and Republican his whole life, so much so the guy he's running against voted for him in 2016:

 

Homer

Long Time Member
Messages
12,543

MEET EVAN MCMULLIN​

Evan McMullin is a proud Utahn, former undercover CIA officer and chief policy director in Congress, who ran for president in 2016 as an independent.
Evan grew up in a family like many in America, one that struggled to put food on the table and heat their home in the winter. At an early age, Evan learned the value of hard work and to always honor family and country.
Inspired by books and movies at age 15, Evan contacted the CIA and asked to join. He was told to call back when he was older. After graduating from high school and serving a two-year mission to Brazil for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Agency recruited Evan into its student trainee program while he was attending Brigham Young University. He alternated semesters between training at CIA headquarters in Langley, VA and school until he graduated.
During those years, Evan spent time in Israel and Jordan studying Arabic and working for a refugee resettlement program. From a young age, Evan learned of similar histories in his own family. His mother’s grandparents had left Poland around the time of World War II seeking greater opportunity in America and, nearly one hundred years earlier, Evan’s paternal ancestors were driven into the Great Plains and the mountains of Utah by religious persecution.
After completing his CIA service, earning an MBA at Wharton, and working in the private sector, Evan was called back to service, advising Republicans and Democrats in Congress on national security and other issues from 2013-2016. In 2017, Evan co-founded Stand Up Republic, a 501(c)(4) nonprofit organization which led efforts across the country to unite Republicans and Democrats against extremist movements and politicians in defense of American democracy.
Evan believes America has reached a crossroads between chaotic decline and continued progress towards a more perfect union. Political extremes don’t represent the majority of Utahns, or Americans more broadly, yet they’ve polarized the nation and now prevent it from overcoming major challenges. From droughts to forest fires, water shortages, the rising cost of health care, and a never-ending pandemic, America requires leaders who unite instead of divide, finding solutions based on truth and common ground.
With an eye towards service, honor and civility, coupled with a deep love of country and conviction about what America must be, Evan McMullin is poised and ready to continue his service as Utah’s next United States Senator.
 

Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371

MEET EVAN MCMULLIN​

Evan McMullin is a proud Utahn, former undercover CIA officer and chief policy director in Congress, who ran for president in 2016 as an independent.
Evan grew up in a family like many in America, one that struggled to put food on the table and heat their home in the winter. At an early age, Evan learned the value of hard work and to always honor family and country.
Inspired by books and movies at age 15, Evan contacted the CIA and asked to join. He was told to call back when he was older. After graduating from high school and serving a two-year mission to Brazil for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Agency recruited Evan into its student trainee program while he was attending Brigham Young University. He alternated semesters between training at CIA headquarters in Langley, VA and school until he graduated.
During those years, Evan spent time in Israel and Jordan studying Arabic and working for a refugee resettlement program. From a young age, Evan learned of similar histories in his own family. His mother’s grandparents had left Poland around the time of World War II seeking greater opportunity in America and, nearly one hundred years earlier, Evan’s paternal ancestors were driven into the Great Plains and the mountains of Utah by religious persecution.
After completing his CIA service, earning an MBA at Wharton, and working in the private sector, Evan was called back to service, advising Republicans and Democrats in Congress on national security and other issues from 2013-2016. In 2017, Evan co-founded Stand Up Republic, a 501(c)(4) nonprofit organization which led efforts across the country to unite Republicans and Democrats against extremist movements and politicians in defense of American democracy.
Evan believes America has reached a crossroads between chaotic decline and continued progress towards a more perfect union. Political extremes don’t represent the majority of Utahns, or Americans more broadly, yet they’ve polarized the nation and now prevent it from overcoming major challenges. From droughts to forest fires, water shortages, the rising cost of health care, and a never-ending pandemic, America requires leaders who unite instead of divide, finding solutions based on truth and common ground.
With an eye towards service, honor and civility, coupled with a deep love of country and conviction about what America must be, Evan McMullin is poised and ready to continue his service as Utah’s next United States Senator.
Sounds like he'll make a fine Senator to me. Notice how Lee can't get an endorsement from Romney, Cox, Herbert, hell even Jon Huntsman won't endorse him? Because truth is secretly they'd all be okay with McMullin winning or either outcome here. Tanner Ainge is one of Cox's closest friends, which honestly tells me.....yeah....Cox is probably also okay with this election going either way. Why? Because they all know McMullin is a conservative.
 

Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
...an no doubt the entire cast of perverts at the Lincoln Project too....
And all the white supremacist, racists will be voting for Mike Lee. I agree the Lincoln Project dudes are trash. Bad people vote for every candidate.
 

BBW

Member
Messages
20
The fact he was against Trump and supported impeachment is all I need to know, don’t tell me he‘s conservative- LOL
If we follow your footsteps it’s goodbye forever. Pretty simple
 

HikeHunt61

Active Member
Messages
645
OK Oneye- let's assume your desire to get McM elected is purely looking for a less partisan congress (and not to fool conservatives into giving away a sure R to balance the Ds).

The approach is all wrong. What needs to happen is a whole bunch of moderate Rs and moderate Ds banning together to form a 3rd party. A third party with 10-20% of the vote in either branch of congress could actually moderate the extremes on both ends.

The only time an independent (who is middle ground) makes a difference is when the body (like the Senate is now) is evenly split. That'll be short lived. So the "experiment" your endorser so eloquently espouses is doomed as a one-off from the start. Sorry dude- voting for McM will NOT advance conservative causes. And it would only support "middle ground" causes if there is a 50-50 split.

And the other weird point your endorser makes- about being "a part of history": Yep, sure enough. One that Utah will forever be known as the state that turned the Senate over to the wrong side (at least in the eyes of conservatives).
 

Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
Don't you think the white supremacist...racist line is getting a little old??....since there's really no evidence of it in any numbers that matter?
Not really. Those people do exist, and they're a lot bigger fans of certain politicians than they are of other politicians. Don't you think the idea that the two parties are the only two you can vote for and if you don't walk the exact line of Trump you aren't "conservative" has gotten old? By no means am I calling most of Lee's supporters racists, I'm simply saying I have no doubt who racist pricks support out of the two of them. My point was simply to contrast with your point. Just because bad people vote for someone doesn't necessarily mean anything specific about a candidate.
 

Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
The fact he was against Trump and supported impeachment is all I need to know, don’t tell me he‘s conservative- LOL
If we follow your footsteps it’s goodbye forever. Pretty simple
Thank you for making my point before I even read your post. Blind support of Donald Trump is not a litmus test for if someone is conservative or not. This is why saying someone like Romney is not very conservative, is ridiculous. It's just the fact he doesn't like Trump that several of you have a problem with him. Well guess what? Donald Trump is a POS and has been a POS his whole life regardless of what you think of his political policy. Selling the soul of your party to one man is why you lost to a half alive Joe Biden and will again if DT is on the ballot in 2024. The blind envy by some conservatives of Donald Trump is what has screwed over the Republican Party and will continue to if he remains your litmus test and God like figure. Conservatism is not defined by Donald Trump, try again. Sorry.
 
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Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
OK Oneye- let's assume your desire to get McM elected is purely looking for a less partisan congress (and not to fool conservatives into giving away a sure R to balance the Ds).

The approach is all wrong. What needs to happen is a whole bunch of moderate Rs and moderate Ds banning together to form a 3rd party. A third party with 10-20% of the vote in either branch of congress could actually moderate the extremes on both ends.

The only time an independent (who is middle ground) makes a difference is when the body (like the Senate is now) is evenly split. That'll be short lived. So the "experiment" your endorser so eloquently espouses is doomed as a one-off from the start. Sorry dude- voting for McM will NOT advance conservative causes. And it would only support "middle ground" causes if there is a 50-50 split.

And the other weird point your endorser makes- about being "a part of history": Yep, sure enough. One that Utah will forever be known as the state that turned the Senate over to the wrong side (at least in the eyes of conservatives).
Yeah, again, just pure fairy tale stuff here. The Senate will be close his entire time in office if he's elected. His vote will be FAR FAR more sought after than Mike Lee's in congress, because Mike Lee is an extremist partisan hack. It's why someone like Romney ends up instrumental in legislation that's going to pass, unlike Mike Lee who no one even asks the opinion of. Your vote means nothing if it is never a vote but for your partisan base.

Also, a much simpler solution is this. Open primary elections of both parties to ALL voters ALL the time. Republican primaries are closed primaries in Utah (Democratic primaries are open primaries in Utah) so you have to be registered as a Republican to vote in a Republican primary. That's asinine. If we want politics representative of the population, we wouldn't close primaries and yield the most extreme candidates a party can get possible and leave us with pure garbage during the general.

Guess what? Reason is on the ballot in November. A non-extremist is on the ballot running against Mike Lee this November. And yeah, I'll be voting for reason not more of the same divisive partisan garbage and anti-public land sentiment I've watched with Mike Lee.
 

HikeHunt61

Active Member
Messages
645
Yeah, again, just pure fairy tale stuff here. The Senate will be close his entire time in office if he's elected. His vote will be FAR FAR more sought after than Mike Lee's in congress, because Mike Lee is an extremist partisan hack. It's why someone like Romney ends up instrumental in legislation that's going to pass, unlike Mike Lee who no one even asks the opinion of. Your vote means nothing if it is never a vote but for your partisan base.

Also, a much simpler solution is this. Open primary elections of both parties to ALL voters ALL the time. Republican primaries are closed primaries in Utah (Democratic primaries are open primaries in Utah) so you have to be registered as a Republican to vote in a Republican primary. That's asinine. If we want politics representative of the population, we wouldn't close primaries and yield the most extreme candidates a party can get possible and leave us with pure garbage during the general.

Guess what? Reason is on the ballot in November. A non-extremist is on the ballot running against Mike Lee this November. And yeah, I'll be voting for reason not more of the same divisive partisan garbage and anti-public land sentiment I've watched with Mike Lee.
Pretty sure you don't even read the posts. OK, no need to debate.
 

elkassassin

Long Time Member
Messages
30,233
elkassassin:

Have you ever killed an elk?
According To SS,No!



Also, I am trying to tell what your avatar picture is. Is it a cat looking through a scoped rifle while using a persons backside as a rest?
You Ever Tried Clicking on an Avatar Three Times To Enlarge it So You Can See It a Little Better?

Maybe Turn The Volume Up While You're at it!


That's kinda strange don't ya think?--can you explain it please--I'm legit intrigued. What is the cat aiming at? How did you train it to use a rifle? Wouldn't the persons head get in the way of the cat's aim and if the cat did fire wouldn't the muzzle blast hurt the ears of the person (maybe they have hearing protection?)? What is the thing next to the person (shoes?)?
You Ever Heard of a Nice Rest?

I know you are a legend on MM and I think you are pretty flippin funny but that picture is something else!
 

BBW

Member
Messages
20
Thank you for making my point before I even read your post. Blind support of Donald Trump is not a litmus test for if someone is conservative or not. This is why saying someone like Romney is not very conservative, is ridiculous. It's just the fact he doesn't like Trump that several of you have a problem with him. Well guess what? Donald Trump is a POS and has been a POS his whole life regardless of what you think of his political policy. Selling the soul of your party to one man is why you lost to a half alive Joe Biden and will again if DT is on the ballot in 2024. The blind envy by some conservatives of Donald Trump is what has screwed over the Republican Party and will continue to if he remains your litmus test and God like figure. Conservatism is not defined by Donald Trump, try again. Sorry.
I‘m convinced your a democrat, it doesn’t take a blind person to see the downfall of our nation since January 20th 2020
I didn’t say anyone was conservative, reread the post, and
I could care less what type of person he is, we all have our problems. Fact is he was a good president, the best we’ve had since Reagan, our way of life was never better, he did many, many good things for all of us, even a blind person can see that. And don’t pretend you know me or anything about me, or anyone like me, step down off your pedestal. I survived the Carter days, I’ve lived this before, I can see, and you certainly won’t win any votes with your arrogant attitude and your insults.
There’s only one blind person on this thread and you should be able to see, it’s very clear, there’s only one way out of the predicament we’re in as a nation and it’s not by gambling on your candidate.
 

Tikka

Long Time Member
Messages
3,795
Oneye....your racist white supremist dog whistle doesn't work here.....it is a made up accusation that your ilk throw out non stop....
What more would you expect from a guy who’s handle is named after a chocolate starfish…
 

Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
Pretty sure you don't even read the posts. OK, no need to debate.
I do. We don’t need a 3rd party. We need open primaries so the most extreme politicians aren’t the ones that primaries yield like they do with a lot of current processes. Every citizen should have an input on the Republican and Democrat party yield for the general. Republican primaries like they are here in Utah should not be closed off to independents, Dems, etc. just because they are not registered as a Republican. That’s how you get bad candidates only 25% of the population actually likes. Let the entire voting populous pick both candidates and we wouldn’t end up with pure **** from both parties during an election cycle. But that would be reason, and the two major parties don’t want that, they want you to have to choose between the extremes and push forward their agenda.
 

Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
Oneye....your racist white supremist dog whistle doesn't work here.....it is a made up accusation that your ilk throw out non stop....
I don’t think you can read well. I can assure you, most skin head racists vote Republican. That doesn’t mean Republicans are racist. The Lincoln Project idiots may vote for McMullin, that doesn’t mean anything in regards to him. Unless you also think it means something that David Duke voted for Donald Trump. It isn’t a dog whistle, I’m making it very clear how stupid your analogy was.
 

Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
I‘m convinced your a democrat, it doesn’t take a blind person to see the downfall of our nation since January 20th 2020
I didn’t say anyone was conservative, reread the post, and
I could care less what type of person he is, we all have our problems. Fact is he was a good president, the best we’ve had since Reagan, our way of life was never better, he did many, many good things for all of us, even a blind person can see that. And don’t pretend you know me or anything about me, or anyone like me, step down off your pedestal. I survived the Carter days, I’ve lived this before, I can see, and you certainly won’t win any votes with your arrogant attitude and your insults.
There’s only one blind person on this thread and you should be able to see, it’s very clear, there’s only one way out of the predicament we’re in as a nation and it’s not by gambling on your candidate.
The downfall of our nation lol. Listen, despite what Fox News told you, the nation is okay. We are still very much living some of the softest lives in history or on planet earth, but yeah, let’s be hysterical because that’s all anyone wants to be these days. And yeah, I’m very much independent. I’ve voted for Republicans, I’ve voted for Democrats. The real problem in America, is both those parties need some power taken away from them and a reality check. Do tell me, list the non-Republicans you have voted for, if you hug totally to one side of the political isle 100% of the time, well, I don’t care what you have to say. That’s called being a partisan hack because both parties have their issues and thinking either are innocent is naivety to the largest degree.


“Downfall of our nation”


You sound every bit as ridiculous and stupid as any liberal crying when Trump was elected. This is the problem, we’ve been convinced the world is ending whenever our guy doesn’t win. It’s not true or anywhere close to it. We lasted through Trump, we’ll last through Joe. Grow up.
 

Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
First off, I’m not clicking on some nonsense from your anonymous partisan hack job site. You can search PJ media, and it is literally described as a right wing hack jjob subscription site. Again, some of you continue to prove over and over again what partisan brainwashed hack jobs you are. 2nd, Romney hasn’t endorsed anyone. 3rd, Romney has a higher approval rating than Lee in the state and has his entire time in congress. That’s what I mean by closed vs open primaries. Lee would win a closed Republican primary. Romney would relatively easily win an election head to head where all citizens of Utah voted regardless of party. The issue with a lot of you is you believe your extreme portions of your chosen party should hold total power. I don’t. I believe in reason, not extreme partisanship. Which btw, Romney is a hell of a lot more partisan than I’d like. If this was a general election and was Romney vs Lee, Romney would win in a wash just to be clear.
 

Snoopdogg

Very Active Member
Messages
2,433
Okay Oneye. I'll chime in since you're criticizing my "anonymous partisan hack job site." That's rich...

All of the large, i.e. mainstream, media are left of center--despite their claims--the Lee's of the world are fighting them (lefty, progressive media machine} AND their opponents. Doesn't sound fair. Please tell me you understand and accept that as fact.

So, when you offer up what seem to be common sense solutions to fight the "extremes" of both sides, such as open elections, (let all citizens vote!) I'll ask you and anyone with a pulse, how are conservatives going to win in a "fair" election with the media pushing their view? In R states, they can prevail, but eventually, more D's get elected by the media swaying the narratives of their preferred candidate and next thing you know--you're living in California.

I live in California where we have gone to jungle primaries, top 2 vote getters move forward regardless of party. Since we implemented that law, (2011) California has gone super-majority D's. R's are window dressing. Their votes, for lack of a better descriptor, don't matter.

Heard of Gavin Newsom; free abortion tourism services where ANYONE, Utahns, Iowans, etc., can come on over for FREE abortions; pro-ILLEGAL immigration that allows free money, food, phones, health services etc., to be paid for by Californian's taxes; "common sense" gun laws; defund police laws; sanctuary laws; criminal sentencing reform laws; racist-ass CRT laws; and then some. As a matter of fact, late last night our fair Gov signed SB 107 making CA a sanctuary state for transgender children! Oh, you should read it, I'm sure it's available on the Sacramento Bee, LA Times, or SF Chronicle websites, which are well-known and non-partisan sites. ;) (Can you feel my sarcasm? I even added a stupid emoticon juuuuuust in case.)

I'll state again; you know who helps the D's of today win close races, keep majorities, and/or create supermajorities to implement these type of laws? Correct if you said the good ol' media! Their fair and impartial--they said so!

Mr. Oneye, are you confident that the SLC media, where the majority of Utah's electors reside, will hear fair coverage of candidates? Will they consider what other, non-metropolitan-living Utahn's see as a representation of their "values?" I simply say f#ck no. They'll swamp the rural vote and voila--California, Jr!

Be careful what you wish and push for, including McMullin. This is bigger than Mike Lee hates public land and Evan McMullin is a better, "conservative" alternative. It can slam your way of life quicker than Ted Kennedy leaving the scene of a car accident and in a 50-50 US Senate with a senile leader, it can have nationwide ramifications that may never be overcome in our lifetimes, if ever.

So Mr. Oneye, don't read the story because it's a right publication. It's just a story I thought might provoke a little thought to this particular issue. Stick to your pro-McMullin, one-sided sources as your mind is made up.

I read a lot media, more than I want to, by vocation and I feel informed enough to make my own decisions based on reading coverage by both sides on the same issues. It's quite apparent there are two sides to any issue and you're a big boy and entitled to make your own decisions. Just don't b#tch when those decisions are impacted severely by the laws enacted by your "alternative" choices.

"Mr. Snoopdogg, I'm only talking about Lee and his anti-land choices, not political armageddon!" I hear ya, sometimes I just spew on unrelated matters just to hear myself yap. What do I know--I'm from California?

All this doom and gloom I've cited, it's real--look that up on whatever source you'd like. You'll find it. But when you do, it'll just be pitched as "common sense" or "anti-"XXXX and "very much needed" law. Two-sides to every issue.

And just to tie this up with hunting, for the last 12 years, having D's in charge has already affected our hunting and fishing with copper only bullets, outlawing trapping and use of hounds, no bobcat hunting, and even "no coyote shooting contests."

The mainstream media and D's are in sync and I just don't trust a "conservative" independent like Mr. McMullin. Sounds like Liz Cheney to me, but, I'm not in Utah so I can't vote.

Respectfully submitted,
Mr. Snoopdogg, Esq. (NOT!)
 

Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
Okay Oneye. I'll chime in since you're criticizing my "anonymous partisan hack job site." That's rich...

All of the large, i.e. mainstream, media are left of center--despite their claims--the Lee's of the world are fighting them (lefty, progressive media machine} AND their opponents. Doesn't sound fair. Please tell me you understand and accept that as fact.

So, when you offer up what seem to be common sense solutions to fight the "extremes" of both sides, such as open elections, (let all citizens vote!) I'll ask you and anyone with a pulse, how are conservatives going to win in a "fair" election with the media pushing their view? In R states, they can prevail, but eventually, more D's get elected by the media swaying the narratives of their preferred candidate and next thing you know--you're living in California.

I live in California where we have gone to jungle primaries, top 2 vote getters move forward regardless of party. Since we implemented that law, (2011) California has gone super-majority D's. R's are window dressing. Their votes, for lack of a better descriptor, don't matter.

Heard of Gavin Newsom; free abortion tourism services where ANYONE, Utahns, Iowans, etc., can come on over for FREE abortions; pro-ILLEGAL immigration that allows free money, food, phones, health services etc., to be paid for by Californian's taxes; "common sense" gun laws; defund police laws; sanctuary laws; criminal sentencing reform laws; racist-ass CRT laws; and then some. As a matter of fact, late last night our fair Gov signed SB 107 making CA a sanctuary state for transgender children! Oh, you should read it, I'm sure it's available on the Sacramento Bee, LA Times, or SF Chronicle websites, which are well-known and non-partisan sites. ;) (Can you feel my sarcasm? I even added a stupid emoticon juuuuuust in case.)

I'll state again; you know who helps the D's of today win close races, keep majorities, and/or create supermajorities to implement these type of laws? Correct if you said the good ol' media! Their fair and impartial--they said so!

Mr. Oneye, are you confident that the SLC media, where the majority of Utah's electors reside, will hear fair coverage of candidates? Will they consider what other, non-metropolitan-living Utahn's see as a representation of their "values?" I simply say f#ck no. They'll swamp the rural vote and voila--California, Jr!

Be careful what you wish and push for, including McMullin. This is bigger than Mike Lee hates public land and Evan McMullin is a better, "conservative" alternative. It can slam your way of life quicker than Ted Kennedy leaving the scene of a car accident and in a 50-50 US Senate with a senile leader, it can have nationwide ramifications that may never be overcome in our lifetimes, if ever.

So Mr. Oneye, don't read the story because it's a right publication. It's just a story I thought might provoke a little thought to this particular issue. Stick to your pro-McMullin, one-sided sources as your mind is made up.

I read a lot media, more than I want to, by vocation and I feel informed enough to make my own decisions based on reading coverage by both sides on the same issues. It's quite apparent there are two sides to any issue and you're a big boy and entitled to make your own decisions. Just don't b#tch when those decisions are impacted severely by the laws enacted by your "alternative" choices.

"Mr. Snoopdogg, I'm only talking about Lee and his anti-land choices, not political armageddon!" I hear ya, sometimes I just spew on unrelated matters just to hear myself yap. What do I know--I'm from California?

All this doom and gloom I've cited, it's real--look that up on whatever source you'd like. You'll find it. But when you do, it'll just be pitched as "common sense" or "anti-"XXXX and "very much needed" law. Two-sides to every issue.

And just to tie this up with hunting, for the last 12 years, having D's in charge has already affected our hunting and fishing with copper only bullets, outlawing trapping and use of hounds, no bobcat hunting, and even "no coyote shooting contests."

The mainstream media and D's are in sync and I just don't trust a "conservative" independent like Mr. McMullin. Sounds like Liz Cheney to me, but, I'm not in Utah so I can't vote.

Respectfully submitted,
Mr. Snoopdogg, Esq. (NOT!)
So to be clear, I agree with you the mainstream media has liberal bias, but Fox News is also bias rhetoric. This site he shared is bias rhetoric. You can't criticize liberal media bias, then share information, articles, etc. which clearly come from right wing hack job sites that are also bias. How about we take the partisanship and bias out of it instead of sharing the information from sources that are bias to fit our own conclusions? To be clear there will always be bias in media, people can still vote for who they want. Club for growth currently has a completely false ad running on McMullin with a doctored video that they're going to end up having to take down. That's Republican dark money being used to lie their way into winning an election. I really get tired of this notion that Republicans are up against it and don't play dirty. They absolutely do and so do the groups like those who currently bought $3 million in TV ads to smear McMullin. Just consider, in Utah and super red state, they are going to spend around $8 million to defeat McMullin, that power means that much to them. If you, I, or anyone ever really really wants to start pulling away power and giving the two major parties a reality check, we're gonna have to stop with this idea you can't vote for an independent candidate because we're scared to do so, or all that's going to happen is what's been happening and getting worse. Both the major parties getting more extreme and more partisan, and frankly more willing to swing the anvil further any time they are elected. Voting for McMullin is a vote for reason, change, and against Mike Lee and his anti-public land sentiment. And you now what? If he isn't a good Senator I'll vote for someone else next time.

You live in California so you get to see Democrats drunk with power. In Utah Republican's are drunk with power. It's not good when either major party has full control and power with no way to hold them accountable, and quite frankly the only way to give them a reality check is to vote for someone outside their party and show they don't just get your vote no matter what they do. Like trying to sell off our public lands. McMullin has been a conservative his whole life. He is not a Trump guy, has been on Republican policy teams. Is on record from abortion to guns as being conservative on those issues. I feel perfectly comfortable voting for him. I feel even more comfortable as I see Republicans in the state endorsing him, as well as our tech industry which McMullin met with a few days ago and made a good impression on. He will make a good Senator and also make Utah's Senate vote more valuable. I have no worries about voting for McMullin. He will do fine in the Senate.
 

Bluehair

Long Time Member
Messages
6,460
Okay Oneye. I'll chime in since you're criticizing my "anonymous partisan hack job site." That's rich...

All of the large, i.e. mainstream, media are left of center--despite their claims--the Lee's of the world are fighting them (lefty, progressive media machine} AND their opponents. Doesn't sound fair. Please tell me you understand and accept that as fact.

So, when you offer up what seem to be common sense solutions to fight the "extremes" of both sides, such as open elections, (let all citizens vote!) I'll ask you and anyone with a pulse, how are conservatives going to win in a "fair" election with the media pushing their view? In R states, they can prevail, but eventually, more D's get elected by the media swaying the narratives of their preferred candidate and next thing you know--you're living in California.

I live in California where we have gone to jungle primaries, top 2 vote getters move forward regardless of party. Since we implemented that law, (2011) California has gone super-majority D's. R's are window dressing. Their votes, for lack of a better descriptor, don't matter.

Heard of Gavin Newsom; free abortion tourism services where ANYONE, Utahns, Iowans, etc., can come on over for FREE abortions; pro-ILLEGAL immigration that allows free money, food, phones, health services etc., to be paid for by Californian's taxes; "common sense" gun laws; defund police laws; sanctuary laws; criminal sentencing reform laws; racist-ass CRT laws; and then some. As a matter of fact, late last night our fair Gov signed SB 107 making CA a sanctuary state for transgender children! Oh, you should read it, I'm sure it's available on the Sacramento Bee, LA Times, or SF Chronicle websites, which are well-known and non-partisan sites. ;) (Can you feel my sarcasm? I even added a stupid emoticon juuuuuust in case.)

I'll state again; you know who helps the D's of today win close races, keep majorities, and/or create supermajorities to implement these type of laws? Correct if you said the good ol' media! Their fair and impartial--they said so!

Mr. Oneye, are you confident that the SLC media, where the majority of Utah's electors reside, will hear fair coverage of candidates? Will they consider what other, non-metropolitan-living Utahn's see as a representation of their "values?" I simply say f#ck no. They'll swamp the rural vote and voila--California, Jr!

Be careful what you wish and push for, including McMullin. This is bigger than Mike Lee hates public land and Evan McMullin is a better, "conservative" alternative. It can slam your way of life quicker than Ted Kennedy leaving the scene of a car accident and in a 50-50 US Senate with a senile leader, it can have nationwide ramifications that may never be overcome in our lifetimes, if ever.

So Mr. Oneye, don't read the story because it's a right publication. It's just a story I thought might provoke a little thought to this particular issue. Stick to your pro-McMullin, one-sided sources as your mind is made up.

I read a lot media, more than I want to, by vocation and I feel informed enough to make my own decisions based on reading coverage by both sides on the same issues. It's quite apparent there are two sides to any issue and you're a big boy and entitled to make your own decisions. Just don't b#tch when those decisions are impacted severely by the laws enacted by your "alternative" choices.

"Mr. Snoopdogg, I'm only talking about Lee and his anti-land choices, not political armageddon!" I hear ya, sometimes I just spew on unrelated matters just to hear myself yap. What do I know--I'm from California?

All this doom and gloom I've cited, it's real--look that up on whatever source you'd like. You'll find it. But when you do, it'll just be pitched as "common sense" or "anti-"XXXX and "very much needed" law. Two-sides to every issue.

And just to tie this up with hunting, for the last 12 years, having D's in charge has already affected our hunting and fishing with copper only bullets, outlawing trapping and use of hounds, no bobcat hunting, and even "no coyote shooting contests."

The mainstream media and D's are in sync and I just don't trust a "conservative" independent like Mr. McMullin. Sounds like Liz Cheney to me, but, I'm not in Utah so I can't vote.

Respectfully submitted,
Mr. Snoopdogg, Esq. (NOT!)
Snoop, you must be exhausted. Cyber beer on me (y)
 

Snoopdogg

Very Active Member
Messages
2,433
So to be clear, I agree with you the mainstream media has liberal bias, but Fox News is also bias rhetoric. This site he shared is bias rhetoric. You can't criticize liberal media bias, then share information, articles, etc. which clearly come from right wing hack job sites that are also bias. How about we take the partisanship and bias out of it instead of sharing the information from sources that are bias to fit our own conclusions? To be clear there will always be bias in media, people can still vote for who they want. Club for growth currently has a completely false ad running on McMullin with a doctored video that they're going to end up having to take down. That's Republican dark money being used to lie their way into winning an election. I really get tired of this notion that Republicans are up against it and don't play dirty. They absolutely do and so do the groups like those who currently bought $3 million in TV ads to smear McMullin. Just consider, in Utah and super red state, they are going to spend around $8 million to defeat McMullin, that power means that much to them. If you, I, or anyone ever really really wants to start pulling away power and giving the two major parties a reality check, we're gonna have to stop with this idea you can't vote for an independent candidate because we're scared to do so, or all that's going to happen is what's been happening and getting worse. Both the major parties getting more extreme and more partisan, and frankly more willing to swing the anvil further any time they are elected. Voting for McMullin is a vote for reason, change, and against Mike Lee and his anti-public land sentiment. And you now what? If he isn't a good Senator I'll vote for someone else next time.
Don't doubt Fox News has bias--it's there front and center and I don't think they have ever claimed to be the Washington Post or the New York Times with their bullsh*t of non-partisanship. Lying liars and they smell like poo. And they dress funny.

That's said, I shared what I wanted to share. You call it right-wing partisan hack site without even looking at it. Where did you get this desciption? Was it from a mainstream fact-checker source? Hell, I don't trust the Southern Poverty Law Center anymore when they claim that basically anyone who doesn't agree with lefty progressive view is a racist and I know racism is a big topic of yours.

So yes, there is bias everywhere in the media. I was calling attention how that and the "let all citizens vote" will lead to caca with my California examples.

So homey, consider the alternative from a long-term perspective. Give McMullin 6 years with 2 years of Biden or Harris lurking, If the senate stays close--will he be Murkowski, or dare I say, Romney, Susan Collins or even Ben Sasse to a lesser degree? I get the impression, based on what I've read, that he will be a D/I/R in that order. Just a guess. But who the mainstream is supporting?

I only care about McMullin and anti-public land Lee insomuch as how they will he vote on critical issues. In this current political climate, no effing way I'd vote for the uncertainty of a independent to vote conservative for a 6-year term when I have a conservative in hand. The stakes are high, but then again I just may be bloviating just to see my handiwork on MM.

Vote for whoever you want. Just don't sh*t on my source (one of many I read) without even looking at it when I'm just sharing info I thought was relevant to the current discussion at hand. I probably won't share many LA Times or Sac Bee or SF Chronicle articles because, well--you can figure it out.

And with that, I'll move on with the rest of my life. Happy hunting!
 

Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
For example, an ad that was totally doctored, taken out of context and that all local stations have pulled was done by a conservative dark money group. Please, please don’t tell me Republicans play truthfully or kindly or are picked on. They are also dirty at their politics:

 

Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
Don't doubt Fox News has bias--it's there front and center and I don't think they have ever claimed to be the Washington Post or the New York Times with their bullsh*t of non-partisanship. Lying liars and they smell like poo. And they dress funny.

That's said, I shared what I wanted to share. You call it right-wing partisan hack site without even looking at it. Where did you get this desciption? Was it from a mainstream fact-checker source? Hell, I don't trust the Southern Poverty Law Center anymore when they claim that basically anyone who doesn't agree with lefty progressive view is a racist and I know racism is a big topic of yours.

So yes, there is bias everywhere in the media. I was calling attention how that and the "let all citizens vote" will lead to caca with my California examples.

So homey, consider the alternative from a long-term perspective. Give McMullin 6 years with 2 years of Biden or Harris lurking, If the senate stays close--will he be Murkowski, or dare I say, Romney, Susan Collins or even Ben Sasse to a lesser degree? I get the impression, based on what I've read, that he will be a D/I/R in that order. Just a guess. But who the mainstream is supporting?

I only care about McMullin and anti-public land Lee insomuch as how they will he vote on critical issues. In this current political climate, no effing way I'd vote for the uncertainty of a independent to vote conservative for a 6-year term when I have a conservative in hand. The stakes are high, but then again I just may be bloviating just to see my handiwork on MM.

Vote for whoever you want. Just don't sh*t on my source (one of many I read) without even looking at it when I'm just sharing info I thought was relevant to the current discussion at hand. I probably won't share many LA Times or Sac Bee or SF Chronicle articles because, well--you can figure it out.

And with that, I'll move on with the rest of my life. Happy hunting!
It was by simply searching google and looking at every link describing the site. They won’t be getting my traffic or clicks. And yeah, I’m gonna **** on totally partisan, bias sites that have an agenda.
 

JakeH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,516
So to be clear, I agree with you the mainstream media has liberal bias, but Fox News is also bias rhetoric. This site he shared is bias rhetoric. You can't criticize liberal media bias, then share information, articles, etc. which clearly come from right wing hack job sites that are also bias. How about we take the partisanship and bias out of it instead of sharing the information from sources that are bias to fit our own conclusions? To be clear there will always be bias in media, people can still vote for who they want. Club for growth currently has a completely false ad running on McMullin with a doctored video that they're going to end up having to take down. That's Republican dark money being used to lie their way into winning an election. I really get tired of this notion that Republicans are up against it and don't play dirty. They absolutely do and so do the groups like those who currently bought $3 million in TV ads to smear McMullin. Just consider, in Utah and super red state, they are going to spend around $8 million to defeat McMullin, that power means that much to them. If you, I, or anyone ever really really wants to start pulling away power and giving the two major parties a reality check, we're gonna have to stop with this idea you can't vote for an independent candidate because we're scared to do so, or all that's going to happen is what's been happening and getting worse. Both the major parties getting more extreme and more partisan, and frankly more willing to swing the anvil further any time they are elected. Voting for McMullin is a vote for reason, change, and against Mike Lee and his anti-public land sentiment. And you now what? If he isn't a good Senator I'll vote for someone else next time.

You live in California so you get to see Democrats drunk with power. In Utah Republican's are drunk with power. It's not good when either major party has full control and power with no way to hold them accountable, and quite frankly the only way to give them a reality check is to vote for someone outside their party and show they don't just get your vote no matter what they do. Like trying to sell off our public lands. McMullin has been a conservative his whole life. He is not a Trump guy, has been on Republican policy teams. Is on record from abortion to guns as being conservative on those issues. I feel perfectly comfortable voting for him. I feel even more comfortable as I see Republicans in the state endorsing him, as well as our tech industry which McMullin met with a few days ago and made a good impression on. He will make a good Senator and also make Utah's Senate vote more valuable. I have no worries about voting for McMullin. He will do fine in the Senate.
I would much rather live in a state with "drunk with power" republican's then "Drunk with power" Democrats.

I mean come on man really you want to compare the two???


And Mcmuffin is only competitive right now because of his stance on Trump, if he wasn't a Trump hater he wouldn't even be relevant right now without the media propping him up, Its the only thing he has going for him.
 

Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
I would much rather live in a state with "drunk with power" republican's then "Drunk with power" Democrats.

I mean come on man really you want to compare the two???


And Mcmuffin is only competitive right now because of his stance on Trump, if he wasn't a Trump hater he wouldn't even be relevant right now without the media propping him up, Its the only thing he has going for him.
Do you not understand the people who are just as partisan as you in the other direction think EXACTLY like you? The world was ending with Trump for them. The worlds ending with Biden for people on this thread. Grow up, stop pretending your side is innocent or more innocent than the other side. It is just not true. Both sides are obsessed with culture war games at this point. NIETHER party be power drunk is a good thing. NEITHER party having full power over a given area is a good thing. It allows corruption, gerrymandering, and a feeling they are not accountable to their voters. Just stop acting like we can't compare your side to the other side. You're both very much alike in your extremes if you'd just look in the damn mirror.

As for McMullin, he's a conservative and doesn't like Trump, so yeah, that makes him a good alternative to a lot of people. He received 21% of the vote in Utah in 2016 (mostly disillusioned Republican vote). McMullin is a classic pre-Trump conservative. Don't want to lose elections? Don't nominate such a terrible top of the ticket. Not only did Donald Trump do his damndest to lose the last election, he also made sure Republicans lost the Senate by bashing Republican candidates in places like Georgia, saying the elections were rigged (suppressing his own voters enthusiasm to even show up). But that's the big hero of some "conservatives". Yeah, cool.....that dude is the very reason Joe Biden was elected and Republicans lost the Senate but keep cheerleading. I'll vote for reasonable candidates thanks.
 

HikeHunt61

Active Member
Messages
645
Gee Oneye- if you are middle of the road, you would certainly dislike partisans on each side equally. But JakeH and others (me included), who are conservative, are simply saying if it's that way, they prefer the partisan conservatives. No pretending involved dude.

Now I would agree that the partisan extremism in the country is out of control (worse than decades before). I would love to see some moderation- one reason I'm not a big Trump fan. The problem I have with the candidate you adore so much is that it's just the right giving into the middle. And since Independents are not organized, there is no growth potential for middle ground. Hell- one Independent is so far left he puts other partisan Ds to shame.

Point is- the only thing McM solves is making some anti-Tumpers happy. That does nothing to solve the bigger problem.
 

Homer

Long Time Member
Messages
12,543
McM claims he won't caucus with either side??....that'll sure get him lots of plumb committee assignments to push his middle of the roadisms.....
 

Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
Gee Oneye- if you are middle of the road, you would certainly dislike partisans on each side equally. But JakeH and others (me included), who are conservative, are simply saying if it's that way, they prefer the partisan conservatives. No pretending involved dude.

Now I would agree that the partisan extremism in the country is out of control (worse than decades before). I would love to see some moderation- one reason I'm not a big Trump fan. The problem I have with the candidate you adore so much is that it's just the right giving into the middle. And since Independents are not organized, there is no growth potential for middle ground. Hell- one Independent is so far left he puts other partisan Ds to shame.

Point is- the only thing McM solves is making some anti-Tumpers happy. That does nothing to solve the bigger problem.
Considering the extremists who hang out here, yeah this will be my convos with you. When I’m on Twitter dealing with moron leftists who are your polar opposites, I’m very much telling them how ridiculous they are. I prefer neither extremes, and middle of the road reasonable candidates like McMullin, who guess what? Is on the ballot.

As for him solving nothing? Actually he does. He’s a big slap in the face to partisan extremism and as I’ve mentioned multiple times, clearly a conservative on nearly every issue. I can’t take most people on here seriously when they say they want reasonable toned down politics, as they castigate someone like Mitt Romney who votes right 90% of the time, and is bi-partisan when he feels he needs to be to serve his state having a voice in legislation but made the grave sin of extremists by not bowing down his morals to a guy who didn’t deserve it. In 2016 Romney called Trump a liar, a cheat, and a con man. He was right then, and he never changed, many of those around him did. Including Lee who agreed fully with him in 2016, so much so he voted for Evan McMullin for President. If Romney is some great evil like some here like to spew, no…no they don’t want reasonable politics. They want the extremism, partisan games, rhetoric, culture wars.

Unfortunately enough of the Republican Party has sold their sole to one guy who is actually a decent reason Republicans haven’t had the Presidency or Senate over the last few years. Oh, and if he is the candidate again in 2024, they’ll lose the White House again. Nominate Desantis. Because yeah, I 100% won’t be voting for Donald Trump or Joe Biden in 2024.
 
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Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
McM claims he won't caucus with either side??....that'll sure get him lots of plumb committee assignments to push his middle of the roadisms.....
I love how there’s this idea Lee has much input or power. He does not. McMullins vote would be far and away more sought after than Mike Lees. God forbid we don’t have more politicians tied to the hip of the two major parties who are high on their own supply.
 

Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
As he is proving my point now on whatever weird social media app he now tweets from. Dude attacks Republicans more than he attacks Democrats. He did the same thing in several races and lost Republicans the Senate. Still on social media spouting nonsense and attacking Republicans. This dude is a disgrace and it’s embarrassing that this is the guy one of our major political parties extremists kiss the boots of. He’s a POS. And has always been a POS. I’ll take the guy who doesn’t kiss a loser like this ass. Truly, I’ve seen a lot of Romney criticism on this thread….and yet THIS…THIS is what you think is morally superior and you wonder why Republicans lost the last election cycle. This dude…this dude is why:
B6D2CE6F-3F3C-4C1C-ADAD-39FDEADB8C36.jpeg

Such brilliance to start his attacks of Republicans 5 weeks away from midterms…..again. Mike Lee sold his soul to this idiot.
 
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Homer

Long Time Member
Messages
12,543
I love how there’s this idea Lee has much input or power. He does not. McMullins vote would be far and away more sought after than Mike Lees. God forbid we don’t have more politicians tied to the hip of the two major parties who are high on their own supply.
certainly by the left...that will likely get it
 

HikeHunt61

Active Member
Messages
645
Considering the extremists who hang out here, yeah this will be my convos with you. When I’m on Twitter dealing with moron leftists who are your polar opposites,
Really?

You just called me an extremist (I'm not) and a moron (I guarantee you I'm not). I'd express my views on your intelligence and extravagance- but I'll take a higher road. I don't have to call you names or cancel you to debate things. But that's not the first time you've done it on your McM threads.

What is does say is you struggle to gain traction with logic and discussion- and therefore resort to insults.
 

Snoopdogg

Very Active Member
Messages
2,433
"In 2016 Romney called Trump a liar, a cheat, and a con man."

This being the same Romney who whored himself to said liar, cheat, con man, etc., when he was begging for Secretary of State gig? That Pierre Delecto?
 

Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
Really?

You just called me an extremist (I'm not) and a moron (I guarantee you I'm not). I'd express my views on your intelligence and extravagance- but I'll take a higher road. I don't have to call you names or cancel you to debate things. But that's not the first time you've done it on your McM threads.

What is does say is you struggle to gain traction with logic and discussion- and therefore resort to insults.
I did not intend to call you those things, but there are a few of them on here. In fact I intentionally made that post trying to make it more of a broad statement than pointed at you, but I shouldn’t have ended that comment saying “conversations with you”. My bad. There’s plenty people here who have shown themselves to be very partisan hackery there is no reasoning with. That was meant to be more of a general comment of the community on MM vs Twitter which is very much the opposite.
 
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Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
"In 2016 Romney called Trump a liar, a cheat, and a con man."

This being the same Romney who whored himself to said liar, cheat, con man, etc., when he was begging for Secretary of State gig? That Pierre Delecto?
I believe Trump endorsed Romney for election too right? Sorry, if we’re talking about who has better morals and is a better person, it’s Romney in a wash and it’s not close at all.

PS Mike Lee also has a Twitter burner account that was uncovered. And Mike Lee went from voting for McMullin to calling Trump Captain Moroni, idk, with the overall conversation here there’s not much high ground to stand on. In fact of the 3 McMullin is probably the one with the least amount of baggage, burner accounts, or changing standards.

Those who don’t demand better than Trumpism from the Republican Party, aren’t going to get much respect from me. Idk how you can see the dude is still on some obscure app slandering Mitch McConnell and his wife and think…you know what…that’s our guy.
 
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Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
But truthfully, I should probably step away and just leave it at this. McMullin is a conservative and has been his entire political career. He is a legitimate candidate to get Mike Lee and his totally anti-public land stances out of congress while maintaining a conservative vote in congress. Club for Growth and other Republican dark money groups are throwing millions of dollars at the state for negative, and even totally fabricated, edited and spliced, and dirty lie ads in the state right now, which should tell you all you need to know about whether this race is close. I don’t care about the polls whether they show close or not, they’re all over the map. There’s a lot of close Senate and House races across the country places like Club For Growth would rather be spending their money, and yet it’s pouring in here. Lee is not safe right now and they know it. I listened to him on a conservative talk show yesterday, calling Utah voters confused, and begging for money because even he says this race is tightening. The money tells all. Lee and Republican dark money ad groups are going to spend $8-9 million over the next 5 weeks to try and save his ass. If his record was so great and he could simply run on that it shouldn’t take $8 million, and lying, editing, and splicing attack ads to save him. Vote for reason in November Utahn’s. Mike Lees had his two terms in congress and has done such a bang up job he’s needing to spend $8 million and lie in TV ads to save his ass.
 

TrevorBrettsguard

New Member
Messages
0
I don’t usually post on forums like this, I usually just consume sites like this, but I felt compelled to give a little input here considering my experiences with both. My name is Trevor, I was born and raised in Cedar City, I now live in Provo. I’ve met Mike Lee once about 7 years ago, and McMullin twice. Once when he was running for President, once this year at a BYU football game.

To be up front, I’m in agreement with the few on here that Lee hasn’t been a great Senator and he is not very friendly to outdoor lifestyle when you consider the bills he pushed.

When I met Lee I felt like he was a decent guy. He’s a politician though and not very personable. This wasn’t at a legitimate political event so I did not feel the need to badger him on those issues at the time, which I think one way or the other you can make up your mind on him anyway.

As for McMullin, in 2016, I did meet him at a political event. I felt like he was genuinely concerned about where the Republican Party was headed and wanted more policy centric discussions than the divisive politics that began fulminating at the time and has only gotten worse since. He was asked a lot of questions by people in the room, a couple by myself, and he did answer them all and spent a good amount of time talking to those who showed up. I don’t remember one question he answered that wasn’t of conservative nature. I don’t personally question his conservatism after meeting him a couple times. The second time was at a BYU game. It was more of an informal greeting and small talk. Again, didn’t feel like that is the setting to be pushy about political issues. He did talk to quite a few people while he was there that day. He seemed like the same person I met in 2016, and I got the impression he was quite genuine then. I do think I will end up voting for McMullin. Everyone has a choice to make, but I think some decent—albeit inflammatory at times—points have been made in this thread in regards to Senator Lee and his record. Have a wonderful Sunday everyone.
 

JakeH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,516
I don’t usually post on forums like this, I usually just consume sites like this, but I felt compelled to give a little input here considering my experiences with both. My name is Trevor, I was born and raised in Cedar City, I now live in Provo. I’ve met Mike Lee once about 7 years ago, and McMullin twice. Once when he was running for President, once this year at a BYU football game.

To be up front, I’m in agreement with the few on here that Lee hasn’t been a great Senator and he is not very friendly to outdoor lifestyle when you consider the bills he pushed.

When I met Lee I felt like he was a decent guy. He’s a politician though and not very personable. This wasn’t at a legitimate political event so I did not feel the need to badger him on those issues at the time, which I think one way or the other you can make up your mind on him anyway.

As for McMullin, in 2016, I did meet him at a political event. I felt like he was genuinely concerned about where the Republican Party was headed and wanted more policy centric discussions than the divisive politics that began fulminating at the time and has only gotten worse since. He was asked a lot of questions by people in the room, a couple by myself, and he did answer them all and spent a good amount of time talking to those who showed up. I don’t remember one question he answered that wasn’t of conservative nature. I don’t personally question his conservatism after meeting him a couple times. The second time was at a BYU game. It was more of an informal greeting and small talk. Again, didn’t feel like that is the setting to be pushy about political issues. He did talk to quite a few people while he was there that day. He seemed like the same person I met in 2016, and I got the impression he was quite genuine then. I do think I will end up voting for McMullin. Everyone has a choice to make, but I think some decent—albeit inflammatory at times—points have been made in this thread in regards to Senator Lee and his record. Have a wonderful Sunday everyone.
If the guy hadn't made his bones off of his hatred for Trump then I would consider him, hell I almost voted for him '16 against Trump I thought long and hard as I felt Trump was a wild card and I literally switched my vote to trump as i was filling out my ballot, but politically and policy wise Trump was great. My beef isn't about him running against Trump in '16, but his actions afterwards when Trump had proven that he could govern in a very conservative manner.

You can dislike the guy personally all you want but to actively try and get him removed when he was doing a good job is ridiculous. Too me it was the people on our side of the isle that gave so much credence to the lefts attacks on Trump and those are the people that cost us the '20 election (that and a fair bit of cheating) and McMullen was one of those voices.

If McMullen had came in to this race going head up on Lee with out all the other B.S. about Trump I would consider him as I did when he went against Trump in '16 , but as it is not a shot.
 

roadrunner

Long Time Member
Messages
4,538
Do you not understand the people who are just as partisan as you in the other direction think EXACTLY like you? The world was ending with Trump for them. The worlds ending with Biden for people on this thread. Grow up, stop pretending your side is innocent or more innocent than the other side. It is just not true. Both sides are obsessed with culture war games at this point. NIETHER party be power drunk is a good thing. NEITHER party having full power over a given area is a good thing. It allows corruption, gerrymandering, and a feeling they are not accountable to their voters. Just stop acting like we can't compare your side to the other side. You're both very much alike in your extremes if you'd just look in the damn mirror.

As for McMullin, he's a conservative and doesn't like Trump, so yeah, that makes him a good alternative to a lot of people. He received 21% of the vote in Utah in 2016 (mostly disillusioned Republican vote). McMullin is a classic pre-Trump conservative. Don't want to lose elections? Don't nominate such a terrible top of the ticket. Not only did Donald Trump do his damndest to lose the last election, he also made sure Republicans lost the Senate by bashing Republican candidates in places like Georgia, saying the elections were rigged (suppressing his own voters enthusiasm to even show up). But that's the big hero of some "conservatives". Yeah, cool.....that dude is the very reason Joe Biden was elected and Republicans lost the Senate but keep cheerleading. I'll vote for reasonable candidates thanks.

The comment made about R's and D's drunk on power so went over your head...
 

Homer

Long Time Member
Messages
12,543
Well hell......now that we've heard from Trevor....is there even a question on the best candidate???
 

Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
If the guy hadn't made his bones off of his hatred for Trump then I would consider him, hell I almost voted for him '16 against Trump I thought long and hard as I felt Trump was a wild card and I literally switched my vote to trump as i was filling out my ballot, but politically and policy wise Trump was great. My beef isn't about him running against Trump in '16, but his actions afterwards when Trump had proven that he could govern in a very conservative manner.

You can dislike the guy personally all you want but to actively try and get him removed when he was doing a good job is ridiculous. Too me it was the people on our side of the isle that gave so much credence to the lefts attacks on Trump and those are the people that cost us the '20 election (that and a fair bit of cheating) and McMullen was one of those voices.

If McMullen had came in to this race going head up on Lee with out all the other B.S. about Trump I would consider him as I did when he went against Trump in '16 , but as it is not a shot.
So you admit your actual issue is he doesn’t bow at the alter of Trump? Here’s the thing, doing good in government, doesn’t mean you get to break laws, break norms, steal classified information, and claim elections were stolen and just have everyone go along with it. We can get through Trump, we can get through Biden. We can’t get through the idea that the system should be torn apart to keep your guy in power just because he’s doing some good things policy wise. Don’t perform impeachable acts if you don’t want to be impeached. Act like a grown adult if you want to win an election. Don’t steal classified documents. Peacefully transition power like is the norm. None of it’s hard. Okay I said I was done dammit.
 

Homer

Long Time Member
Messages
12,543
I'll give you break norms.......but your statement of breaking laws, stealing classified information and falsely claiming elections were stolen is nothing but your opinion that any of those are true.........
 

Oneye

Active Member
Messages
371
I'll give you break norms.......but your statement of breaking laws, stealing classified information and falsely claiming elections were stolen is nothing but your opinion that any of those are true.........
Not at all. He had classified information he took home. He lost the last election. Him losing the last election isn’t opinion, unless you’re totally off the deep end, which as I mentioned, a few of you are, so it’s no surprise you’re an election results denier lol. The shoe certainly fits perfectly. Even people uber conservative like Ben Shapiro, has said dozens of times that he legitimately lost the election and the election results denial is damaging to the country. And it needs to stop. He lost the election. Deal with it.
 

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