Neocons and Family Values?

T

TFinalshot

Guest
The “good liberal post” makes about as much sense as someone trying to equate the ALL republicans, i.e., the, “Necons of family values,” and the irresponsibly of the Catholic leadership to overlook child molestation, during its pedophile scandals.

If we used a broad brush, like the one in the “good liberal post,” it would lead to the following conclusions:

Neocon and the Catholic leadership both:

1. like to proposition little boys;
2. protect men who like to proposition little boys;
3. mislead and divert attention away from said pedophiles and call it the fault of the parents for wanting to avoid the attention;
4. like to blame alcohol for said pedophilia. . .
5. blame previous molestation durring childhood;
6. wait until the public out-cry is sufficient to warrant a change in policy rather than doing what is right, and just, from the beginning.

Lets get real fellas. You cant use a broad brush and make assumptions about what people think.

Now, the truth is that Neocons are clearly NOT the party of family values - that now is abundantly clear. I don't know how much more evidence you need. The Foley cover-up, of which has lasted at least 5 years, is proof that the there are specific people (republicans) protecting the party over the interests of our children. If you dont believe this then tell us why the Republicans did not tell the Democratic leadership about he issues? The Republicans were protecting their party, that's it.

I'm not saying the entire republican party should be responsible for one's mans actions, sickos are in both parties – so lets not get into the past, were talking about today, now, and what's currently going on in our nations capitol - however, the republicans should have kicked his ars out of the party when they found out about his perversion to little boys, but they did NOT!

Now to add insult to injury the republicans put the molester in charge of protecting children from people just like him. I hope he's put away by the very laws he was trying to pass to protect children. Hypocrites. . . You know there's a tv show that shows guys just like him getting arrested for doing just what he was doing, baiting underage children on the internet, what a sicko!

If anyone, for one instant, believes that NO one knew about Foley's perversions, you should get that thought out of your head. Plenty of people knew, but they trusted that Foley would stop. Well, he did not and the republican leadership should have known better. People like Foley, and the people that support his abuse should not be in public office, they should be put in jail, especially the one's that claim they the moral high-ground but turn out to be the skum of the earth.

And to think that this guys still would be in office if not for one brave person, and the news station that helped air the reports.

Wow, the party of values, what a bunch of hot air.
 
Tony,
You seem to have made it your cause to try to tear down President Bush and the Republican Party at every turn. Lately everything you post is at the very left side of the political spectrum.

Concerning Tom Foley. This is at the very beginning of a breaking story and for you to put out everything you have heard as fact is ridiculous. We all know that the "facts" of a breaking news story change nearly every day. There are perverts in every walk of life, and if Tom Foley is one, then I hope he gets what is coming to him.

And then to go on a rant about the "party of values". Give me a break. How much is the DNC paying you to post this crap.

I believe you are a very intelligent and well spoken dude. Your pictures are first class, but your determination to shove all this liberal tripe down our throats is far below your potential.

Sounds like that post about being a good liberal struck a little too close to home.


Come on Tony post some pictures.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-06 AT 11:23AM (MST)[p]

"You seem to have made it your cause to try to tear down President Bush and the Republican Party at every turn. Lately everything you post is at the very left side of the political spectrum"

Well, you said yourself that I post good pictures, thanks for that complement!!!! So, right out of the chute your contradictions are obvious.

I happen to be an independent, and I never voted for Clinton. I don't even have anything to do with the liberal or Democratic Party. I'm a free thinker.

But more than that, I also worked in DC - on the hill too, and completely understand the facts my friend. I was there in 1999 and into 2001. I also attended events where the word was that Foley was gay AND that he liked boys. So, if I heard it then, dont tell me the stories on the TV are wrong. In fact, there are other's that have as bad or worse reputations that Foley. Take Byrd for example, they say he's a pervert from way back. . . Ooops, I slipped up, he's dem. . .

Please my friend; get your facts together before you berate me.

Now, there is nothing wrong with being a liberal. I tend to have some liberal ideas, but I also have some very conservative ones. The point is that it does not matter if youre a liberal, that does not make you a bad person. It's unfortunate that people what to ignore the real issus - "family values" and the protection for our children from sexual predaors and resort to blaming everyone, including libereals for what's happening righ now.

This is a not a partisan issue, it's an issue for the repbublican party because it is in charge. If it were a democrat, durring a dem majority, and this heppend to them, it would be the same issues, and I'd feel the same way - I also am a parrent. Again, get your facts straight before you berate me.

Back to the issue, Foley is a bad man. The Republican Party covered up his abuses, that makes them assessory and therefore they are guilty of protecting a criminal - a sexual predator - and why dont you tell me why they put him in charge of protecting our children from internet predators? They already knew about his abuses, and still they put him in charge.

Come, now idabigbuck, if you really know what youre talking about why dont you explain that?
 
He may be a sexual predator. But that doesn't make the republicans accessories. Post your facts, lets see some proof. I'm sure the FBI Would be interested in your "inside knowledge."
I think that it would be pretty stupid of any Party to put a "sexual predator" in charge of protecting our children. So either they didn't know or they are pretty stupid.

I still say you got stung by the "Good liberals" post.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-06 AT 11:36AM (MST)[p]"I think that it would be pretty stupid of any Party to put a "sexual predator" in charge of protecting our children. So either they didn't know or they are pretty stupid."


In either case, the party was wrong, out to lunch and not doing their job to protect our children.

What about that sir, what about our kids? What about the fact that our kids go to DC to learn about the government and dont expect to have to hide from men or women who might prey upon them?

You cant be saying the leadership of the party is not part of this problem. If you are, you dont understand how the system works my friend. Which is okay, but then dont dont turn around and try to pass judgement on me.

By the way, the house is holding hearings on this - wow, imagine that, the house actually holding a hearing to get to the bottom of a problem within it's own party - that's a new one. . .

By the way, it's not insider information when its a rumor and spread around the place. . . I never had any direct contact with the guy, never even met him. . . it was hearsay, but to find out now that's it's true, means it was not hearsay back then. . .

Did meet a good number of other great people but never met Foley. . .
 
Before anyone jumps on the dems for taking advantage of this Foley thing ask yourself what the republicans would have done if Foley were a democrat.

If the republicans covered this up heads will roll, if they didn't Foley is just a pervert and his party affiliation has nothing to do with it, but if he had been a dem the republicans would have used this as a perfect case of why all dems are gay and evil so elect us and we'll burn them at the stake.

Just a political foot note now even Bill O'Reilly says the republicans will lose control of the house in November due in part to this scandal, I guess we'll see how many " good conservatives " are left out there.
 
It seems the media and people from BOTH parties all sat on it and ignored the warning signs and red flags. Read this exchange from Michelle Malkin. Some very good points. My personal favorite "This was a 52-year-old man instant-messaging teenagers. Hello? Would you be comfortable with your next-door neighbor doing that?"

Read on:

It's The Predation, Stupid
By Michelle Malkin
October 4, 2006

Washington is embroiled in another sex scandal. A sure-bet win for the Republicans in Florida is now imperiled. The Dems look to be one seat closer to regaining control of the House. But the latest one involving disgraced GOP Congressman Mark Foley's predatory emails and lecherous instant-message exchanges is more than just a political nightmare.
It's a parental nightmare.

Foley's targets were underage high school students serving as congressional pages. I spoke with good friends of mine a few weeks ago who were positively glowing about their teenage son's experience as a page earlier this year. It is supposed to engender pride in our country and its institutions. It is supposed to inspire young people to public service. But irresponsible, selfish and sick adults have turned the Page Program into their personal sexual romper room.

For more than 150 years, these young messengers have worked in the U.S. Congress. Daniel Webster appointed the first Senate page in 1829. The first House pages began their service in 1842. Most are high school juniors at least 16 years of age. They must have stellar academic records and enlist members of Congress to sponsor them for one or two semester terms during the school year or a summer session.

The pages serve principally as gophers. They carry documents between the House and Senate, members' offices, committees and the Library of Congress; assist in the cloakrooms and chambers; and when Congress is in session, they may be summoned by members for assistance. They live in a supervised dorm near the Capitol. They wear uniforms and take classes. It's a highly competitive process to become a page, and it's an exclusive and exciting opportunity to see Washington up close. Parents put full trust in Congress that their children will be safe.

You can't possibly read Foley's reported communications with minors that have been disclosed so far -- including his attempts to rendezvous with one and apparent meetings and scheduled drinking sessions with others -- and dismiss them as merely "naughty e-mails." Yet, that's how White House press secretary Tony Snow described some of them this week. Though he admitted to being too "glib" and later "clarified" those words with tougher remarks, the damage has been done. It makes Republicans who downplay the messages -- and Democrats and journalists who sat on them -- look recklessly flippant about sexual predation. Parents of all political persuasions should be outraged by both.

It is also impossible to ignore the appearance of calculated grooming by Foley of potential young targets. In a June 6, 2002, farewell speech to pages, Foley effused about his teen pals -- even bragging about taking one male page out on a dinner date at Morton's steakhouse after the boy made a winning bid to have a meal with him. Given my own experience in Washington as a young college intern, when I was approached by a congressman to live alone with him for a winter term, I am sure there are many, many more such stories to be told.

Some Beltway types think it's absolutely absurd to expect the adults in Washington to have policed Foley more aggressively based on knowledge of his more "innocent" exchanges. Come on. This was a 52-year-old man instant-messaging teenagers. Hello? Would you be comfortable with your next-door neighbor doing that?

And this is not the first time the Page Program's participants have been exploited by politicians lurking in the halls of power.
In 1983, Republican Dan Crane and Democrat Gerry Studds soiled the legacy of the House Page Program after both admitting to sexual relations with 17-year-old pages. Crane abused his position of power with a female page. Studds with a male page. Crane apologized and was voted out of office. Studds was defiant, calling his "relationship" with his teen prey "consensual." He was re-elected. Then-Congressman Newt Gingrich called for both predators to be expelled. But the enablers and apologists for Crane and Studds settled for censure.

The consequences of letting their sordid behavior slide without the most severe punishment created fertile grounds for the Capitol Hill predation scandal we are witnessing today. I do not blame the media or the prey for the sins of the predators. I blame the predators -- and all of those, on both sides of the aisle, who looked the other way.
 
> If the republicans covered this
>up heads will roll,

Hastert has already been asked to step down, hasn't he? I see heads rolling already.
 
Oh yeah...and I HOPE Fox gets called out on THIS error.
Foley_dem.jpg


Nice, eh? And who was it who posted here just a couple of weeks ago that Fox News is balanced? HA!? That's a joke and everyone in the industry (media) knows it.
 
If anyone thinks this is just all much to do about nothing, or democratic log rolling, then why is the MOST conservative news paper in the nation - "the washington times" saying this:


Washington Times calls for Hastert resignation. Conservatives biggest critics of how GOP leaders handled Foley e-mails.

GOP conservatives are the strongest critics of how GOP leaders reacted to the initial news of former Rep. Mark Foley's e-mails.

The Washington Times Tuesday editorial for House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) to step down is important because the editorial page is influential among GOP opinion makers. Hastert spokesman Ron Bonjean said Hastert has no intention on vacating the speakership.


GOP leaders are trying to draw attention to the newspapers--including the Miami Herald--tipped off about Foley and did not end up publishing a story. It's a try.

From the Washington Times...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20061002-102008-9058r.htm

Resign, Mr. Speaker

TODAY'S EDITORIAL
October 3, 2006

The facts of the disgrace of Mark Foley, who was a Republican member of the House from a Florida district until he resigned last week, constitute a disgrace for every Republican member of Congress. Red flags emerged in late 2005, perhaps even earlier, in suggestive and wholly inappropriate e-mail messages to underage congressional pages. His aberrant, predatory -- and possibly criminal -- behavior was an open secret among the pages who were his prey. The evidence was strong enough long enough ago that the speaker should have relieved Mr. Foley of his committee responsibilities contingent on a full investigation to learn what had taken place, whether any laws had been violated and what action, up to and including prosecution, were warranted by the facts. This never happened.
Rep. John Shimkus of Illinois, the Republican chairman of the House Page Board, said he learned about the Foley e-mail messages "in late 2005." Rep. John Boehner of Ohio, the leader of the Republican majority, said he was informed of the e-mail messages earlier this year. On Friday, Mr. Hastert dissembled, to put it charitably, before conceding that he, too, learned about the e-mail messages sometime earlier this year. Late yesterday afternoon, Mr. Hastert insisted that he learned of the most flagrant instant-message exchange from 2003 only last Friday, when it was reported by ABC News. This is irrelevant. The original e-mail messages were warning enough that a predator -- and, incredibly, the co-chairman of the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children -- could be prowling the halls of Congress. The matter wasn't pursued aggressively. It was barely pursued at all. Moreover, all available evidence suggests that the Republican leadership did not share anything related to this matter with any Democrat.
Now the scandal must unfold on the front pages of the newspapers and on the television screens, as transcripts of lewd messages emerge and doubts are rightly raised about the forthrightness of the Republican stewards of the 109th Congress. Some Democrats are attempting to make this "a Republican scandal," and they shouldn't; Democrats have contributed more than their share of characters in the tawdry history of congressional sexual scandals. Sexual predators come in all shapes, sizes and partisan hues, in institutions within and without government. When predators are found they must be dealt with, forcefully and swiftly. This time the offender is a Republican, and Republicans can't simply "get ahead" of the scandal by competing to make the most noise in calls for a full investigation. The time for that is long past.
House Speaker Dennis Hastert must do the only right thing, and resign his speakership at once. Either he was grossly negligent for not taking the red flags fully into account and ordering a swift investigation, for not even remembering the order of events leading up to last week's revelations -- or he deliberately looked the other way in hopes that a brewing scandal would simply blow away. He gave phony answers Friday to the old and ever-relevant questions of what did he know and when did he know it? Mr. Hastert has forfeited the confidence of the public and his party, and he cannot preside over the necessary coming investigation, an investigation that must examine his own inept performance.
A special, one-day congressional session should elect a successor. We nominate Rep. Henry Hyde, also of Illinois, the chairman of the House International Relations Committee whose approaching retirement ensures that he has no dog in this fight. He has a long and principled career, and is respected on both sides of the aisle. Mr. Hyde would preside over the remaining three months of the 109th Congress in a manner best suited for a full and exhaustive investigation until a new speaker for the 110th Congress is elected in January, who can assume responsibility for the investigation.
 
Now that's what I'm talkin about!!! I have 1 1/2 hours here at work, then I'm heading to a place that looks a lot like some of your pictures.

By the way, I'm with you on at least one point. If there was a cover up of any improprieties I want to see heads roll too.

I guess the point of my original post is that I get all the negative liberal press that I can stomach in the newspapers and TV. If I want to hear it regurgitated over and over I'll just go to CNN or MSNBC. Its a shame that I have to listen to it on a hunting website. If you re-read your original post (and perhaps I took it wrong), it appears to be another slap at the conservatives.

You certainly have the right to your opinions, just as I have the right to dissagree with them, and you can dissagree with my opinions.

I'm going hunting, out.
Stacey
 
have an awesome trip!!!!!

You must be jazzed up. have a great time, good luck and be safe!

Take care,
 
Cool shots Tony.

This whole thing goes to show you that any one at any time is suceptible to the temptations of the adversary. I am sure at one time Foley was a decent man with great intentions. He may have even been repulsed by this type of behavior. However, he made a concious decision to let this type of behavior attract him and from there he let his attractions guide him and it ruined him. He probably battled with pornography for a long time, keeping it a secret to himself long before he ever acted out, then after it became normal to him, after a bad habit transformed his character, he let that character which had now become corrupted determine his actions.

I am not trying to defend him either. I am just explaining the spiritual, emotional, and mental process that all men and women face. The path to corruption begins with a single step. No one goes from being a conservative to a predator over night. The thing that gets me is all the years he spent masquerading as something he was not.

But most importantly, you need to ask your own selves - who am I really? Do I live they way I profess to?

UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-06 AT 08:45PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-06 AT 08:43 PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-06 AT 08:41 PM (MST)

When are you morons going to realize that there is a huge difference between mainstream Republicans and true conservatives?

99% of conservatives just want the Constitution upheld - AS IT WAS WRITTEN.

BTW, Tshot. You are actually proving the point of the "neocons". You notice that you say the Washington Post (conservative paper) is calling for this guy to leave office? If it were a Democrat, the libs and their media outlets,(Boston Globe, NY Times, LA TIMES, CNN) would be telling us it was a set up, the guy just needs help, etc. The libs would not be calling for one of their own to leave if the tables were turned.

Conservatives are calling for one of their own (supposedley) to leave the ranks. That would never happen in the party of "free love".

and we won't bring up the good liberals like Ted, I thought my car was my yatch, Kennedy or Barney "the male prostitute soliciting" Frank, who are both protected by their party.

http://www.cnsnews.com/bozellcolumn/Bozell.asp
 
Moneyman,
You guys on the far right want to justify everything by blaming or shifting the focus to someone else like little kids , it's Clintons fault, Kennedy did it and on and on. why not take your licking when you have it coming becuse we know you'll whip on someone else for eternity when they have it coming, or even if you think they deserve it.

With all the scandals and the war debacle the republicans have crapped in their mess kit one too many times and it looks as if we're going to go back to a balance of power in Washington. as it should be with checks and balances and just good old middle of the road politics. until '08 when if the republicans can't get their act together we could go to far to the left.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-06 AT 10:03PM (MST) by TFinalshot (moderator)[p]Can you read?
 
First, it was the Washington TIMES - very different than the POST.

Second, you, like many are missing the issue, and to the detriment of the victims. What about the victims, why play more politics with theses kids? Who cares about what political party you're from? This is not a partisan issue.

On the other hand, it becomes political because the current neo-conservatives (new conservatives) which include Foley, are the one's that profess their superiority over family values. Foley was the lead man on child protection from sexual predators on the WWW. But, look at what just happened. Would any sane person consider covering up what now appears to be a child predator? Why did the leadership not take this more seriously? They knew about it years ago and left Foley in his office. They also did not notify the other half of the Ethics committee - that would be the democrats. By all measures it's cover up. Maybe innocent, but wrong no less. . .

If it were my child and I was told that some guy was getting to friendly, I'd get right in the middle of, and right now. I would not just “forget” about it as Hastert now claims. What a crock.

You see, if youre going to be the party of family values, you have to walk the talk. . . and if you don't, you have to pay for your mistakes, and that is what the republicans now must do – deserved or not. . .

What say you about the real issues? This, in my view is not a partisan issue, if the republicans would not claim to be the moral superiority of the United States; the issues would be the center of focus, and not the politics.

If you make the bed, you must sleep in it.
 
Maybe we just misunderstood the report on Mark Foley and he isn't such a bad guy. I mean we've all done it......... when I only get part way through a magazine article and have to stop I bend over a page :)
 
If the guy did it, and I think that he did, then he should resign his position immediatly! If a law was broken then he should get the maximum punishment! I dont care what political party he is affiliated with.

Make an example out of this SOB, this type of behavior is DISGUSTING!

Drum
 

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