New Mexico guides draw

BradA

Very Active Member
Messages
1,665
I’m looking to apply with a guide for the sheep draw as well as ibex, how much of an actual advantage will this give me? And do any of you have any experience with any guides that you recommend for this?
 

Lhedrick1

Active Member
Messages
474
Depends on the hunt and species. Outfitters get 10% of the tags but that doesn't necessarily mean it increases your odds by 10%. It could be more, could be less. Need to look at the hunt code and how the cards fell the last few years in terms of 1st choice, 2nd choice, 3rd and how many applicants.
 

smarba

Active Member
Messages
410
For highly sought after species (sheep, ibex) for the most part the Outfitter pool doesn't help you at all. It should provide you with insight of where/how to hunt/find game, but won't bump your odds. As stated, you have to look at specific hunt codes and decide for yourself.
 
Messages
8
I’m looking to apply with a guide for the sheep draw as well as ibex, how much of an actual advantage will this give me? And do any of you have any experience with any guides that you recommend for this?
The draw odds for sheep and ibex are low. Less than 1-2% pretty much all the way across the board in all draw pools, resident, non resident, and outfitter pool.
 

BradA

Very Active Member
Messages
1,665
Thank you I guess that answers my questions that it doesn’t really give me any benefit to go guided for these species and so I will just stick with applying and hoping my name gets pulled on these oil tags. I’m always trying to better my odds.
 

Oso

Active Member
Messages
110
The difference is not in the number of tags but in the number of applicants, Since the Game Department did away with rounding up for tags, the non-resident, according to my calculations will get one permit per 17 available 17 x 0.6 = 1.02. So any hunt such as the youth Ibex with 15 tags, you as a non resident will not get any tags, The rifle Ibex with 25 tags you now get one tag, last year it would have been two, Makes a difference,
 

BradA

Very Active Member
Messages
1,665
The difference is not in the number of tags but in the number of applicants, Since the Game Department did away with rounding up for tags, the non-resident, according to my calculations will get one permit per 17 available 17 x 0.6 = 1.02. So any hunt such as the youth Ibex with 15 tags, you as a non resident will not get any tags, The rifle Ibex with 25 tags you now get one tag, last year it would have been two, Makes a difference,
So now under the new way of allocating tags for nr there has to be at least 17 tags for that unit in order for there to be a chance of drawing 1 tag being issued to a nr ? Am I understanding that correctly because I’m not even sure there is a unit that offers 17 tags or more for sheep.
 

nmwapiti

Active Member
Messages
853
that is why all sheep tags are now all bunched together. The total amount of sheep tags is considered in the draw, not how many sheep are available for each unit. So if you add up how many sheep tags there are in all units Rocky mountain and Desert, take that number and 6% of that number will go to Non Residents. 10% of the total number of tags will go in the outfitter pool. Then once you have that number, look up specific hunt codes and see how many NR applied for that hunt. Then you'll have an idea of your odds for that specific hunt.
 

Muleman

Active Member
Messages
225
The key is there has to be 84% resident tags given out for each hunt. Once the 84% is met then the next tag could go to the guided or 6% non resident neither of these pools have a minimum like the resident. So any hunt with 10 licenses either the non resident or a guided pool will get one license. The partial percentage that’s left over will fall back to the resident favor so out of 10 tags 9 would go to residents and 1 to either non or guided. In the past the partial went to non residents. From what I was told the first guided or non res that comes up in the draw will get the 1 license. At least that’s the way I understand it.
 

smarba

Active Member
Messages
410
Muleman summed up what I read and understand also. If 10 tags, 8 go to R (min 84%, but that rounds up to 90/9 instead of rounding down to 80/8). The 9th tag goes either to NR or Guided whoever gets drawn first.
 

Oso

Active Member
Messages
110
I don't agree. The law reads that the residents get a minimum of 84%, so with ten tags the the residents get 9 tags. There is no longer any rounding up allowed, since last year. So the non resident get 6% of the tags. So that is 0.6 of a tag, no round up, so the non resident now does not get a tag. The outfitter get 10% or one tag and that tag goes to the non resident.

Lets increase the tags to 20. The residents get a minimum of 84% of the tags or 16.8. Because they must receive a minimum of 84% they will not receive 17 tags or 85%. The non resident has 6% or 1.2 tags, no rounding up and they get one. The outfitter at 10% gets 2. There are your 20 tags, 17 resident, 1 non resident, 2 outfitter. This meets the requirements of the statute.
 

Oso

Active Member
Messages
110
You are right the word "not" should not be in line 3 of paragraph 2. They will get 17 tags or 85% because they have to receive a minimum of 84% and they were not in some instances. Thanks.
 

BradA

Very Active Member
Messages
1,665
I don't agree. The law reads that the residents get a minimum of 84%, so with ten tags the the residents get 9 tags. There is no longer any rounding up allowed, since last year. So the non resident get 6% of the tags. So that is 0.6 of a tag, no round up, so the non resident now does not get a tag. The outfitter get 10% or one tag and that tag goes to the non resident.

Lets increase the tags to 20. The residents get a minimum of 84% of the tags or 16.8. Because they must receive a minimum of 84% they will not receive 17 tags or 85%. The non resident has 6% or 1.2 tags, no rounding up and they get one. The outfitter at 10% gets 2. There are your 20 tags, 17 resident, 1 non resident, 2 outfitter. This meets the requirements of the statute.

So basically what I’m getting out of this all is if I apply for nr, non guided I will have a chance at one tag and I better apply for a unit that has the option to draw nr tag out of that unit otherwise if I am even lucky enough to be that first tag pulled and the unit I apply for doesn’t offer enough tags to give a nr tag then it moves on to the next guy.
 

Oso

Active Member
Messages
110
Correct with the Game and Fish doing away with rounding up, my math says that the total number of tags issued in the draw for a hunt, must be a minimum of 17 total. 0.6 x 17 = 1.02. Anything less there are no licenses in the non resident pool. This takes out some youth hunts, lots of antelope hunts and some elk hunts.
 

BradA

Very Active Member
Messages
1,665
Correct with the Game and Fish doing away with rounding up, my math says that the total number of tags issued in the draw for a hunt, must be a minimum of 17 total. 0.6 x 17 = 1.02. Anything less there are no licenses in the non resident pool. This takes out some youth hunts, lots of antelope hunts and some elk hunts.
Yeah so after understanding this better I went and looked at the booklet for this year, looks like one nr rocky tag and one nr desert tag and then two each for the guided nr draw. So for elk, antelope, deer do they go off of .6 percent for the overall amount of tags like sheep, and ibex or .6 of the unit quota ? For the nr draw ?
 

smarba

Active Member
Messages
410
It's per HUNT CODE. Bighorn tags in several areas are lumped together into the same hunt code to artificially FORCE tags to be available for NR. Not so with any of the other species.
 

BradA

Very Active Member
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1,665
NR get 1 license at 13 TOTAL licenses inside a hunt code. FACT! Outfitters get 1 at 7 TOTAL licenses per hunt code ~ FACT..
That implies to elk, deer, antelope right? But not with sheep, ibex where they take the overall tag quota and then give 10 percent of the tags to guided and 6 percent to nr
 

smarba

Active Member
Messages
410
Only Bighorn lumps the tags. Because they are the same hunt code with sub-codes. This was intentionally done to force bighorn tags to be available for NR/Guide. No other species has tags lumped together like that into a single hunt code.
 

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