non-typical outfitters info

I had a bad experience with Non-Typical Outfitters, ?Rob Wiley.? Three friends and I decided to do a drop camp hunt and began our research. We talked to Rob Wiley and looked at his website. We felt he was squared away and would be our best option and we decided to go with him for our drop camp hunt. We are working class guys and this was an expensive hunt for us and we had to save to afford it. Rob sent us a few pictures of bucks before season. We paid our money and set a time to arrive to meet his packers to go in hunting. We arrived thirty minutes earlier than his paperwork he had sent said to arrive and the packers were three hours late. Rob Wiley told his packers to arrive three hours later than he told us. When we brought this to Rob?s attention he said he told us to be at the meeting place the time the packers had showed up. We told him we had the paperwork showing 5:00 a.m. and he said he told us 8:00 a.m... This can happen and was not a big deal. We got passed this and were ready for a great hunt.

Rob told us we would have two drop camps in separate location because he did not feel comfortable with four hunters in one drop camp. Rob was adamant that four hunters in one of his camps are too many. We were fine with that. Rob also said each camp would have an outfitter tent already set up, wood stove, two cots, two pads for the cots, and our gear. This sounded perfect. Throughout the year we spoke with Rob and he told us he had not seen as many bucks as he had been seeing in five years prior. Rob said 2009 was the year.

Each camp had about a four hour horse ride in which was a great time. Upon arrival to our drop camp we had to set up our tents. Each tent only had one cot but did have two cot pads. One person from each camp had to sleep on the ground. The wood stove was in such bad repair you could not use it in the tent because it would leak smoke and fill your tent. Both camps had to take the stove out of the tent. One camp had water near which was a luxury but the other camp it was about a mile away which was fine. So just in the camp setting Rob had already made promises which were not true and unsuitable for the money we had paid. If we wanted to sleep on the ground we would have done like we always do and packed in ourselves. Again we moved passed this hoping to kill a big buck.

One camp both hunters killed bucks the other no one killed a buck or even had an opportunity. In the camp that killed bucks one was a small 4 point okay buck and the other a big buck. This camp had lots of other hunters come into the area after arrival but the hunters were able to find two bucks with one being big. The camp that did not kill bucks saw a lot of does, small bucks, and bears. The second day into the hunt we walked and found a well traveled forest service road real close to the camp. We learned Rob had taken us in the long way to seem we were way far out but actually were short two hour walk in on foot. We hunted this area hard and left camp before sun up and got back after sundown. During the hunt we called Rob and expressed that we were hunting hard but not seeing anything other than small bucks and bears. We could not get a hold of Rob. Toward the end of the hunt we were very mad as we had saved for this hunt and knew he had overbooked and just put us in a spot he had not scouted and had used five years earlier. We called Rob and did get mad and left a voicemail telling him to, ?Get us out of this F%^&*%# forked horn camp.? We never heard from Rob until two weeks after the hunt. Rob called one of us stated we, ?Mother F%$#@^&? him but we did not. Rob also said he was going to be away from his phone out hunting for two weeks and would not be available. We returned his phone call as we had some big concerns about the hunt but have never been able to speak with him. The funny part about all this is the hunter who killed the big buck is hayden3006 on Monster Muleys. Rob sure did find plenty of time to call hayden3006 numerous times and ask numerous times for copies of the pictures of his buck. Against our wishes hayden3006 did send two pics to Rob and he quickly put the pics on his internet site. We are greatly concerned another hunter who has saved for his hunt will end up like us and waist his money and be put in a camp because Rob Wiley has overbooked and his camp have half the gear Ron promised. We had our own cots but Rob said he had cots to use his. Our hunting party told hayden3006 Rob only wanted the picture for advertising and felt it would be used to draw other hunters in but he disagreed. Turns out all three of the other hunters were right he only wanted it for advertising. We do not want you pay and have an experience like us.

Both camps got along great with the packers who were great guys. One packer upon arrival at our camp told us they had not been to that area in five years. The packer said they had scouted one camp but had not scouted our spot. The packer admitted Rob overbooks his hunts. Both packers also told us that Rob treats them like poorly and their own living conditions are horrible during the season they work for him they both said they are done working for Non-Typical Outfitters. He actually said Rob treats them like ?NI%$#@!? and does not allow packers to use GPS and takes the long way in on purpose. The packers were not impressed with Rob and told us they were sorry. They also agreed Rob Wiley is all about making money. Just so you know our packer was dog tired and we took him to lunch and bought him at least five margaritas and left him with a good tip as we felt he was being overworked and miss treated.

I think money and greed are what caused us to have a bad hunt. Rob Wiley of Non-Typical Outfitters was trying to make as much money as possible instead of being concerned if he was placing hunters in areas with a decent chance at killing a respectful buck. If it was me with a tag in his area I would look for a different outfitter or do some research and walk in myself and most likely you will end up the same spot you would have had to pay a lot for a Rob Wiley non-typical Outfitter hunt.

I will admit Non-Typical Outfitters does kill some big bucks but beware he does overbook and treats his employees bad etc... I will admit Rob did take us on a Non-Typical hunt. With most other outfitters it would have been great but it was Non-Typical. Lucky for us we all get along great and have a good time in the outdoors just was promised a lot more and paid for a lot more than we received.

Fill free to contact me,

Joseph Kinney, ?bigonedown.?
 
I was on this hunt with bigonedown. The packers were great but wore down. I teased with the packer when he came back up to get us and said "why don't you just park down there on the road adjacent to our camp and save 2 hours on the pack out? I mean we now know there is a road directly next to camp you dont have to give us a scenic tour to make us feel we are deep in the back country."... Being 3 hours late is excusable only by an emergency when someone is paying hard earned money to hunt.... Overbooking yourself is not an Emergency!!! Truly it should have never went that far. A little honesty would have been great, just tell us you are swamped and overbooked yourself and we would have come back another year. It is obvious he has some good spots but if they are all taken he will take your money and put you somewhere anyway..
 
Joe this part of the reason I would have a hard time giving anyone $ for a hunting trip. I would be afraid of it going badly.
 
I like the part about the "scenic tour". I've seen, what I believe to be the same thing, happening in Wyoming and Nevada. I think the outfitters don't want the hunters to figure out that some hunts are doable without them. I've been only a mile from the truck and been right there with them. They probably thought that I was one tough SOB after their pack in. Haha!

NTO does kill some killer bucks on a consistant basis. I have no idea how his drop camps are, but Rob seems to get his fully guided hunters on the bucks.

Don P.
 
Ok, first and foremost, before this whole situation gets blown way out of proportion, I would like to get a few of the facts cleared up. I am a guide for Robb Wiley at Non-Typical Outfitters. Robb, alone, spends days, weeks and months doing pre-season scouting. The pictures of the bucks on his web site prove that. The location of drop camps is in direct relation to where Robb finds the bucks from scouting. I am familiar with the location of this specific drop camp (Red Top.) Red Top is at least in the top 5 of the areas in region G that has produced trophy class bucks. I know that he scouted that particular mountain personally. Non-Typical Outfitters has killed some tremendous bucks off of this mountain over the years. You do not know from one year to the next how many resident hunters are going to be in a particular area. Just because there are a number of hunters in an area doesn't mean that the bucks aren't there either, you just have to know how to hunt them. For being with a horrible drop camp outfitter, somehow one of the friends managed to take a 185-190 class buck.

At the beginning of season there was enough camp supplies from tents, stoves, cots?.etc for any and all of the drop camps. I know that because I helped to load all of it up. The two packers were in charge of all the drop camp supplies from that point forward. For the record though, I would like it to be known that neither of the packers are employed by Non-Typical Outfitters anymore. One of the packers was actually let go during hunting season. Why there weren't enough cots to go around, apparently no one is sure. Secondly, the reason the second drop camp wasn?t next to water is because the packers didn't pay attention when Robb told him where the closest water to camp was. Now to the issue of the ?scenic tour? with a forest service road being closer than the trailhead. Plain and simple, you cannot draw a straight line from that road to the drop camp with horses and a pack-string ... it is straight up and too steep for the stock.

I can understand ?bigbuckdown? getting mad and frustrated with not seeing the bucks he wanted to, but no one ever said hunting trophy class mule deer is easy, especially under un-seasonably warm conditions. I would like to note that ?bigbuckdown? hunted for 2 (I emphasize 2) days before calling and leaving Robb a message of serious disgust on the same answering machine that his wife and family listen to. Any husband and/or father can sympathize with Robb?s frustration back toward ?bigbuckdown.? If "bigbuckdown" and his hunting partner had not approached their frustration with leaving a message with repeated "F--- " bombs maybe they would have gotten a more favorable response.

Now let's dive into the overbooking issue. If Robb really overbooks his camps because of his greed and money hungry attitude then explain to me how Non-Typical-Outfitters consistently kills good trophy class mule deer on a yearly basis. Anyone can look at his website and see a consistent track record of good mature trophy class bucks. Correct me if I am wrong, but overbooking causes areas to become ?shot-out? and this is not the case. Truth be told, Robb could book twice as many hunters as he takes on a yearly basis and has a limit on numbers that he sticks to in order to maintain quality.
Lastly, I would like to discuss Robb?s treatment towards his employees. Being a guide for him, I have first hand knowledge on this topic. Non-Typical Outfitters is one of the highest paying outfitters in western Wyoming that I'm aware of. Secondly, the accommodations at camp are exceptional from the guide tents, food, hot shower?etc. Yes, there is potential to become wore down from time to time, but when you are up at 3:30 in the morning and home after dark, that is just part of the job. I have yet to meet a successful outfitter that gets up after daylight and is home before sunset. Have You?? Also, for the record, Robb is usually up before everyone else and is often the last to go to bed. He has always treated me and the other guides and packers extremely well, both during season and year round.

I would be more than happy to elaborate on anything or help to answer any other questions or concerns from a guide's standpoint at Non-Typical Outfitters.

Thanks
 
Wow interesting thread. I hunt an area in montana where i hike/horseride 4 miles to get to an area where the guides take the hunters in by a long 12 mile route, so i can relate.

The answer to one question should clear up the question of overbooking:

Q ) How many hunters does Non-Typical take each year? Including fully guided and drop camps for elk and deer.
 
any outfit that runs both fully guided hunts and drop camps in the same general area is a iffy deal if you ask me . you can only scout so much country and there is only so many big shooter bucks around if you are the outfitter where are you gonna put your guys that paid the big money to hunt versus the half price drop campers ? if someone is gonna get the second choice areas of course it is gonna be the drop campers. i can see the problem with the missing gear and water issues but two days is not enough hunting time to really judge what is there considering the big country and early season dates.
 
I would ask a simple question of non-typical in this instance. If there acknowledging that there was a water and cot issue what has been done to make it right. It could have been the packers responsibility, however ultimately they were working for Rob. I have no dog in this fight, however would like to hunt that region some day on my own in a drop camp.

Rich
 
The argument of how could non typical outfitters consistently kill big bucks if he is overbooking is not very well thought out in my opinion. If he takes guided hunters to the hot spots and just dumps excess drop camps wherever, the drop camps have no impact on his trophy areas. If they happen to kill something good fantastic it is advertising for the future. If they kill nothing you can always go back to saying they were not very good hunters. Bottom line is drop camp hunts by outfitters who have fully guided hunters in the same general area is a bad idea. The only way you wont get the shaft is if they dont have enough guided guys show up. The camp accomodations just seem to be in line with many outfitters. They do what they can and then hide from unhappy clients. Just curious what was paid for this drop camp hunt?
 
$1900. was paid. I would like to comment about what the guide said. I did admit and do not debate one of our partners killed a big buck. We also did hunt more than two days before calling. Our frustration came the third day of a five day hunt when we had walked ourselves in the ground trying to find deer. We did find some deer just does and forked horns. After the outfitter was told how we had been seeing more bears than deer and his reply was, "Did you guys get a tag; season is open." This was after our hunt and when he called the hunter who had killed the big buck numerous times for a picture. We did not go to hunt bear. It is funny though when the packer dropped us off for the hunt at our drop camp site we asked about bears in the area and he told us there was very few and they rarely see bears. We saw tons of bears actually saw more bears than we did deer. Also we were told by the outfitter he had been in the area scouting and had seen 25 big bucks and a bunch of smaller bucks while scouting. Before season he said he had scouted both the areas we were to hunt and saw many bucks. Now I guarantee if this was all true I would have at least saw a one or a couple small four points or three points.

We also confirmed with other hunters/people in the area the outfitter does take the long way in. It would have worked for him had he placed hunters in the area who do not hunt hard and stayed close to camp.

I also know hunting trophy mule deer means eating tag soup a lot. I have done this many times. The reason we went with this outfitter was because he told us he scouts and places a lot of time in the field picking drop camp sites. I understand we did not see a monster but I think we should have had at least a chance or seen an average buck bigger than a forked horn.

Also we let many issues go that were promised and did not happen. We wanted to have a good hunt and moved forward. However, everything just kept piling up and making the hunt worse. I will say I did have a good time in the mountains with a friend from Alaska like we always do and we made the best of the situation.

Also I am sorry if we dropped an "F bomb" and there is no excuse for that we were just frustrated with a hunts we paid a lot for and could have done just as good or most likely better on our own.
 
So that everyone is somewhat on the same page, the area in which we hunt is over 1000 square miles. It is extremely big and rugged country. There are trophy class bucks scattered across all of it. The results from pre-season scouting are how Robb determines where to put his efforts with the guided hunters and drop camps . Everyone acts as if Robb were to have 10 hunters, so he only scouts until he finds 10 good bucks. Anyone can look at the scouting gallery on his website to discover that that isn't the case. Truth be known, Robb only posts a percentage of the actual scouting pictures he takes. Sometimes we will start our season with 30-40 big bucks found from our scouting. With our six guided hunters a week we are not going to be able to cover all of those locations. So that is what lends itself to putting a drop camp in an area with big deer that won't be conflicting with our guided hunts. I, personally, have been there when we've found that 180, 190, and 195+ buck that the drop campers are suppose to be hunting. Just because we put the camper in that area does not guarantee him a view of the bucks or a shot at the deer, it's just a good place to start. Robb and I have had the discussion on drop camps because I don't believe they are worth doing; If the drop campers don't all have great success then it seems like the outfitter gets the blame and bad press. He explained it to me in a way that makes sense from a hunter's standpoint more than a business standpoint. If he and his wife or best friend?etc wanted go hunt the high country of Colorado or somewhere, this is the type of hunt he would prefer. Its still a DIY hunt, but it allows those without maybe horses, backcountry gear, and knowledge of country to still go into somewhere new with a chance of killing a trophy buck?.etc. I think in the future Non Typical outfitters will either get rid of the drop hunts all together or be a whole lot more selective of who we offer the hunt to. The service for this hunt has a huge value, but it is still a hunt, not a guarantee. No one (I repeat No one) puts the time and effort into the scouting that we do at Non Typical Outfitters. Bigbuckdown I can promise you that the big herd of bucks was there, Robb was with another guy when they spotted the big herd, they have talked about that herd many times. From my perspective it is too bad you did not call Robb with a different attitude on the phone, because he would have went out of his way to help you.. Not that he was sitting around the office, we were all on some 10,000 ft mountain peak working our asses off. Robb truly cares about giving you and every hunter the best service possible. I would also be willing to bet if Robb or myself would have packed you into the camp we would not be having this conversation on a website.....
 
If i paid a outfitter a couple grand for a horse ride, pack-in, drop camp only to find that there was a access road within easy walking distance, i'd be pissed!

Joey
 
I guided with Rob at a fishing lodge in alaska for a couple of years and I can say that he is as honest and hard working as they come.
 
If I was mislead and treated the same as some of these guys, I would've made sure everyone in the party filed a complaint with the WY Outfitters Assoc. I would've also sent a letter to the G&F and whichever biologists and wardens handle that area and a CC to the Gov. I've been on one guided big game hunt and it was fantastic. However, I've been on several guided waterfowl hunts and had a similar disappointing experience where a dickhead outfitter over promised and severly underdelivered. I now do my homework when I do guided hunts...
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-17-10 AT 02:55AM (MST)[p]I don't have a dog in this fight with Non-typical Outfitters. I don't know if they are good or bad. I can say in my experience with outfitters that you should count your fingers after you shake hands with one of them to make sure you have an honest outfitter. I rank outfitters in the same class as contractors and car salesman. Buyer beware! Outfitting is an industry ripe for exploitation--promise big and deliver small.

Bad outifitters are looking to make a sale on you. I have been burned by outfitters on 2 of 3 hunts even after doing all my homework (checking references, asking other outifitters, asking other hunters, etc.). I even asked outifitters direct questions only to show up at camp to find out the outfitter didn't deliver on his promise. It reminded me of the car salesman trick called "the bump" (i.e. "I would do the deal for this amount that we already agreed too but my boss won't do it. Can you do the deal for my boss' number?"

No matter what the outfitter tells you there is a hierarchy placed on clients. It is just like any other business--those that pay more or have the ability to tip more get more attention (i.e. best hunting locations, best guides).

Old school outfitters are used to walking away from a disgruntled client because his voice was only as big as the amount of friends he could tell about his bad experience. However, an outifitter's reputation can be burned to the ground today by one single internet post with using today's technology.

A good outfitter is worth is weight in gold. A bad outfitter isn't worth the horse$h!+ expelled on your ride in.
 
Hillbilly,

Great of you to chime in with a blanket statement about Outfitters and comparing us to a bunch of used car salesman. You are probably right in some cases. And even a good Outfitter might just say, ?the hell with it? after a while and turn into a bad Outfitter. Especially after dealing with what I call the 2 percent of clients. 98% of clients are good people who are honest and willing to hunt hard and will enjoy their experience in the high country wether they take an animal home or not. The 2 percent crowd is the guy that comes to camp feeling entitled. Because the 2%-er booked a hunt with an Outfitter he believes that he is entitled to be shown the ?monster? and to go home with it in the back of his truck. When he is in camp he forgets what the outfitter told him on the phone, ?we get 2 to sometimes 6 chances a year at deer of that class.? We would give it our all for him if he wanted to try. He might even be the guy that we show the 190 class deer to on the side of some 10,000 ft mountain peak and say to him ?thats the buck you came to kill, lets go?... That 2 % guy says, ?well if I have to hike up that, I'm not going, we are going to have to find another one?..... Like those opportunities happen every day or something. But be assured when he gets home he is going to blame the outfitter for not getting him his monster. It might even change into, ?The outfitter promised me I would have a chance to kill a deer like that....? I had a guy get home and tell other hunters that I promised him a chance at a 220 non-typical. In reality, what I said was ?we have killed deer in that class and they do exist....?.

This is a two way street, Hillbilly... I don't know if you are a 2 % client, but where is the Outfitter?s protection from them or you? You don't see Outfitters on this site bashing the 2 % hunters. Trust me, we could.... I'm sorry for your bad experiences. I even like having clients who have had poor experiences with other Outfitters on our hunts, because 98 percent of the time they are going to leave from their hunt with us with the satisfaction we did our job to the best of our abilities and, kill or no kill, they are happy. There are those few that no matter what we do, they are never happy. Are you one of those guys Hillbilly??

I can not speak for all Outfitters, but I got into this profession out of a passion for the hunt. I picked the area we outfit in because of the trophy mule deer and high country terrain. I enjoy chasing big bucks and the challenge they present. I like sharing that experience with people who also enjoy it. I put 110% into each and every hunt we conduct. I judge the success of our season not by the bank statements but by the successes of our clients and guides together. Those successes might be trophy animals or they might be the continuation or beginnings of a good friendship with our clients. I know we are doing a good job of this because of our return clients and the friendships we have built. I'm proud of the guides who make Non-Typical Outfitters one of the best in the business. I dedicate my entire year to the success of our clients. I really don't make very much money at it either. I spend a lot on wages, horses, optics, trucks, trailers and camps. The forest camps we operate are not cheap to purchase. If money was my motivator I would do things differently, for sure. I care about doing it right........ Sure there are some people who have come on our hunts who have left disappointed. But not because I didn't give it my all or my guides gave it there all. For the record I have never in my life promised a trophy mule deer to someone..... The only thing I have ever promised a hunter is to do our best for them from guides, cooks, scouting, horses, equipment and on and on. I sleep at night comfortably, knowing I have done my very best on every hunt!!!! That includes drop camps. All I have ever done is my best. It's amazing to me how easy it is for someone to come on one of these sites and bash outfitters. I used to give a little credit to what was said on these blogs but after a couple of years of reading I have come to the realization that all SOME of you want to do is bash someone or something.

As to the drop camp with Cory Parrent and John Kinney I did the scouting for the hunt myself. The area they hunted is without question one of the very best areas in region G . I have hunted and scouted that mountain for years, and killed some great bucks as well. Some are critical on how close to the road the camp was. If I stopped hunting areas that were in sight of a road in region G, I would not get much hunting done. I have walked that canyon in question from the road and it takes me 2 hours with just optics and lunch, when I reach the top I have rubber legs... it's a steep SOB. Some of you might get it done faster. Good luck doing that with a backpack and a weeks hunting supplies in less than 4 hours... The biggest problem with using this canyon to access the camp is not in the distance or the steep terrain.....every deer you want to hunt gets pushed over the top 1000 yards in front of you. So let's give me a little credit here boys for the longer route, lots of places I go the long way, so I don't spook all the game. But I'm sure you arm chair outfitters might see it differently. It was very hot and dry during that week Corey & John hunted, all the deer were anchored tight in the timber. We killed some great bucks with our guided hunts, but we worked very hard for every opportunity. I have no idea why Cory & John did not see even some smaller bucks. I could do a little bashing here on how they hunted or the phone call they left me after two days.. but why?? All of my messages get saved on my computer so I could play it for everyone... but I am not. One thing that I would like to point out, is that it is easy to blame the outfitter for your shortcomings. Our society in general is moving in that direction... ?If I failed, it can't be my fault, someone else must be to blame.?

One of the things we need to remember is that trophy mule deer are very challenging and humbling to hunt. If you're mentally not in the game on these hunts your going to have a tough time. I have had many hunts humble me over the years. That is why I love to hunt big mulies. I did make one mistake on this hunt. It was not in the area or the equipment... It was in who I had in charge of this hunt, representing Non-typical Outfitters, my packers. I could go on and BASH them but that is not how I like to do business. I do wish things would have turned out differently... not for my sake but for the boys on the mountain.

So, if you want to do some bashing at least now you can bash me for the truth... And if someone decides not to book a hunt with us over this thread we probably did not want to hunt with them anyhow......


Robb Wiley

Non Typical Outfitters
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-10 AT 09:04PM (MST)[p]I've been fortunate enough to of hunted with several outfitters over the years & only one of those hunts was a bad experience, i don't think that's to bad of a record. I spend just as much time on DIY hunts & i can honestly say two of the outfitted hunts i went on were the most challenging, physical hunts i've ever been on. I've found that the outfitters i've hunted with have been hard working & honest & they were willing to hunt as hard as i wanted to & did everything i expected & i in return did everything they expected. This thread is just one piece of information that perspective hunters have to evaluate & make up their own mind on whether they want to give NTO a try. I've been in camps with a few hunters that thought they were to be catered to, hands held & babied. I've also been in camps where all the hunters were on the same page & helped each other be successfull, jump right in & help with the camp chores or help another hunter pack his trophy out. I've even had an outfitter extend my hunt at no charge to me because my hunting partner & i spent a day helping another hunter track a wounded deer & pack it out. I haven't hunted with Non-Typical but i have considered hunting with them in the near future & this thread won't sway me one way or another. The thing is everyone is different & our expectations are all different. What i may think is a great hunt others may not agree, that's ok.
7 Mag
 
Robb,

I don't spend a lot of time on these types of forums, because I prefer to spend my valuable time in the woods or on the water. I happned to jump on here for a few minutes before bed and noticed the title "Non Typical Outfitter". This is the first thing that caught my attention because I have been looking at your website for a couple of years, debating a drop camp hunt, or possibly a lion hunt. I have seen other outfitters get simliar treatments on forums, because an "un-happy" hunter has thrown an "baby like tantrum" on the keyboard, and as far as I can recall you are the only one to stand up and defend yourself. I have been on six guided hunts and would only call one a bad experience. The other five guided hunts were probably the best five weeks of my 28 year old life. So I wouldn't classify "Outfitters" in the same social status as "Car Sales Men". My bad "Outfitter" experince was on an Lion hunt in Idaho. The outfitter was over four hours late picking me and my dad up from the airport, and it only went down hill from there. I saved for three years to go on that lion hunt, and I could tell after the first 24 hours that this was not going to be the "dream lion hunt" that I had envisioned. My dad and I decided that we were going to make the most of the situation. Even though that is the only guided hunt that I have not harvested an animal, and the outfitter over promised on every aspect of the hunt. I didn't run home, hide behind my keyboard, and start bashing everything that happned on that hunt in Idaho.

I am glad that you have enough admeration in yourself, and your outfitt to tell your side of the story. I know first hand not all outfitters are bad. I also don't doubt that you and others in the buisness scout and prepare as much as your schedule and budgets allow. The reality is, nothing is gaurnteed in hunting and the guide and hunter need to be equally prepared. However I hope that all outiftters relize that for many of us "working class" hunters $1900 can be years of saving and sacrafice.

Good Luck,

Brookhunter

P.S.

How come you are not out chasing lions :)
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-10 AT 00:33AM (MST)[p]Just for the record the packer like I said was great. An Ol' Fire Captain still working the job and saves his time off to pack guys into the mountains that he loves. I answered this thread to give a guy info on "My" experience on a Non Typical Outfitter drop camp. Not saying whose fault it was Robbs or the Packers but they showed up 3 hours late to take us in. That sure was not the way we anticipated this hunt to start. Then we get to camp with 1 cot and a raggedy ol wood stove that might have been good for smoking out some bugs in Alaska but sure was not safe for keeping in the tent. No big deal if we would'nt have been told that the camp would have these things (we would have brought our own). And for the cursing on the phone, I sure do apologise for that, would never want no kids to hear the F bomb. Guess I was frustrated with the tardiness, the lack of camp that was promised and covering so much ground to only see fork horns. No excuse to curse in front of any kids or woman, my intentions were for only Rob to hear that message. We are just one groups experience and felt we should share how we were treated on our trip. Hopefully we were the one bad rodeo for OL' Rob and the rest of you guys have a great experience that choose to go with him, but I would not feel right not speaking up on our experience.
 
Robb, I am very glad to see that you posted maybe you could assist in answering some questions for me? Also because after the hunt you seemed to always be busy but not to busy to call and ask for photos of a buck for your website. First, you have the camps mixed up. The camps were, Joseph and Corey in one camp John and John in another. Like my other post I do apologize for the bad language on your answer machine there is not an excuse for that; it is just wrong. You have my full permission to post it and let us all hear it. My only explanation for it is we got miss treated and spent a lot of hard earned money and my partner and I let emotions get the best of us. Also it was the third day not the second we called you. Sorry again like I said we were wrong for that!!

Next, I can tell you this we do not fit into your 2% hunters. The hunters in the other camp were my 55 year old father and friend. You talk a little about fitness well my father is older and can't walk as good and for John well I have hunted with him and even he will tell you I can walk him in the ground and hunting wise we are about even. In short terms I hunt hard, do not mind eating a tag, helping a fellow hunter, and I love the outdoors. If the 2% falls in any camp it was theirs just ask them and post that conversation.

The reason we did not post my partners buck on Monster Muleys, and why we did not want him to send a pic to you was we all four thought you did us wrong. Let me explain. Wrong does not mean you promised a huge buck and we didn't get one. Wrong means you did not come through with many camping, scouting, and drop camp promises. I understand fully in a drop camp you need to have your own skill to succeed and success does not lye on the outfitter. Essentially it is a DIY hunt. I can show you pictures of me in CO on archery hunt high country with my buck from earlier in the year. I am not here to prove my hunting ability just stating a fact you did us wrong. We wanted to learn a little about Wyoming and the country for later hunts on our own and we did. Did we use you as a tool for later hunts well being honest yes.

My questions;

1: Why were the packers three hours late?

2: Why was there no one to get a hold of when the packers were that late?

We almost left on a hunt together without a drop camp because we feared you were not going to show. We called at least five times and all your numbers with no answer and no return call after messages were left. Even after the hunt.

3: Why did we not have cots for all four of us and only two?

4: If you do not take the scenic route why didn't you tell us there was a road by our camp?

You do not know how disappointing it is to think you are at least a mile or two out in the woods and see an F-250 drive by. I will add I think it is because you didn't think we would walk that far and like you said in your post it is steep and makes your legs like rubber. We did it in an effort to find deer. I will say we came in on equally steep country with the horses. This proves we are not in your 2% because we walked to that road that you said is a two hour walk and makes your legs like rubber.

5: Why do you give hunters a stove that fills their tent with smoke? Both camps had stoves that were not usable in the tent.

6: I can't believe your guide from an earlier post says you fired both of the packers that took us in for several reasons. One is they were great packers and took us in with no problems to the areas you had picked out; correct me if I am wrong. They did check on us on day three. They got us out with no issues. They told us they were done with you and not going to return due to their treatment by you and how you operate your hunts. Funny both our packers were fired that is convenient.

My two sense is your guide said that to try and place the blame on them and not you. We tipped them great and bought their lunch and all the drinks they wanted because our bad hunt was your fault not theirs they worked their asses off. We showed you're papers and the time to arrive and they apologized for being late so many times it was ridiculous. GREAT MEN!!!!! I find it hard you fired them I think they moved on on their own to better outfits.

There is more but it is minor B.S.

My problem lies in above questions and me spending this much money for my first ever drop camp. I have never gone on a guided hunt or drop camp you were the first; I have always packed in myself. I guess you could say you ruined me on that. I learned I can do it myself just as good as you. The man I felt sorry for was my friend Corey from Alaska. He rarely comes to the lower 48 to hunt. I told him this is the hunt to go on for a chance to kill a big buck. CHANCE, I DID NOT SAY GUARANTEE. He knows how muley hunting is and will hunt until he places a respectful muley on his wall. I will say again like my earlier post we had a great time in the mountains but he didn't even have a chance at a decent or small deer. The bucks we saw were very small and lots of bears. The funny thing about this was we were told there are hardly any bears. We saw more bears than deer and I am sure you knew this sense you scouted so hard. But you asked if we had bear tags. Now, honestly do you think a resident of Alaska cares about a Wyoming bear tag? I am asking this because you asked if we shot one and had a tag. If you owe anyone an apology or make it right on this hunt it is Corey. Did he curse at you on your answering machine YES. Everything just kept making the trip worse and worse everytime we tried to set aside a bad experience we didn't expect.

I do not want to go on and on about this post forever but I will tell other hunters the facts. Did Non-Typical Outfitters do us wrong YES. Have the three hunters who didn't kill a big buck hear form Robb Wiley, one did on answering machine stating he would not be available for several weeks and the other heard from him numerous times asking for a pic and by convenience he killed the big buck

My last statement is this. Robb if you want to make it right talk to Corey and I and make it right for one or both. We are forgiving people. If you do then I will be more than happy to post on here how the situation was a bad one and the next year fixed by Non-Typical Outfitters. If not then well deep in your hunter heart you know how we were done and may Karma bless you and Non-Typical Outfitters,

Joseph Kinney
bigonedown
 
I believe that Bob should at least TRY to make it right. Any good businessman would make an attempt to meet a disgruntled customer part way.

Don't get me wrong, Bob or Joe, I'm not calling for a free hunt for 2010, after all Joe got his hunt - good, bad or otherwise. If I was Joe I would appreciate the offer of a 2010 hunt at a price low enough to entice Joe to try again for round 2. If Bob can "make it right" with round 2, then Joe aught to delete all of his negative posts and rewrite a few kind words about non-typical outfitters.

...only my opinion.
 
I have delt with this Outfitter in the past.

He went out of his way to help me and did not charge me more than his fuel cost and lunch.

To this day, I am thankful to him.

Robb
 
WYNONTYPICAL,

To answer your question, no I'm not one of the lazy entitled guys that you are talking about.

Bad experience number 1 for me, outifitter said we would hunt wild hogs with dogs. I point blank asked the guy on the phone, "these are real wild hogs, no penned up deals right?" Outifitter replies, "oh no sir, we wouldn't do that." I show up, one guide goes into the swamp off the pasture and the second guide doesn't want me leaving the truck for "insurance liablity purposes" until they get a hog up. I called BS and turns out guide 1 was letting hogs out of giant box trap. Crook!

Bad experience number 2. I drew a coveted mule deer tag and wanted to get the most out of it so I looked for a guide. I point blank asked how much experience my guide would have and he said, "all of my guides have hunted at least 5 years in this unit." I show up for the hunt and get a 20 year old kid that admits to me he stepped in the unit for the first time on the same day as me. We go hunting opening day and he asks to borrow my map! One of the other guides secretly tells me that the outfitter ended up with too many hunters in the guide draw causing the outfitter to over book. He pulled my guide out of the air to give me a warm body to lead me around. I paid $4,500 to sleep in his tent and shoot a deer that I would have killed on my own. Car salesman? Sounds like it.

WYNontypical, I doubt you would defend these guys, would you?

If anyone is interested in these unscrupulous outifitters, PM me and I will tell you their names!
 
Okay Joseph, I will do my best to answer a few of the questions. First when we set up the contracts we were going to try to pack both camps in the same day with the same pack string hence the 6am meeting time. But later we decided to change to our normal 8am pack in time. When that decision was made I asked my wife to call John Ryan on the phone. I understand you guys had some problems with you truck and maybe weren't in good humor to begin with. Brenda told me she did not get ahold of John Ryan but left a message. My wife does not make things up. Then, to arrive at our meeting place the mules have to saddled and horses and so on. We started that particular morning at 3 am. I realize Joseph, that you have no experience with stock, but you could have a meeting with the Pope and have every intention to make it on time with your mules, but if they (the mules) are having a bad day your not going to make it... I believe that day we used close to 14 head of stock. We could debate for awhile about who is to blame for that but why?? You have to be time flexible with stock and mother nature in the mountains. We did leave a message for John about the change in the time, and it is my understanding, that even with the change the packers were still a bit late. It could not be helped and I appologize for the misunderstanding about the meeting time.

As to why we could not answer the phone, we were in the mountain?s.... I guess you have no concept of this. Phone?s do not work where I call my office in the fall... I am guiding all fall and not in town in the office.

The cots, I am not sure why there were not more cots to be packed in. We started the season with enough cots to go out to each drop camp. Maybe one camp ended up staying in the mountains for an extra day. I'm not for sure. But let's talk about the pads they were the blue Cabela?s deluxe air mattress. I personally pack one of those to my scouting camps in the summer and forget the cot all together. I like them better but thats just me.

The stoves are simm?s folding and packable stoves that cost $338. I own 3 of them. There is an art to setting them up. If you don't get all the corners in just right you can have some smoke. For the record, I personally used one of those stoves in question myself on a hunt later in the fall. It functioned fine. Sorry, maybe they were not assembled just right. One of them was damaged in packing and will not be used again. The tents are the Reliable Tents from Montana, the Teton. That tents cost $423 with the fly it runs an additional $209. It may not be the Hilton, but my friends, I have spent a ton of time in the backcountry with this set ups in severe weather. It is a great system in my opinion. If you added up the equipment costs from mules to saddles to stoves and so on your looking at close to $15,000 of gear not to mention the truck and trailer. I did not just line up a blue tarp and a couple of ropes for you gentlemen.

The only thing I can tell you about your road issue is maybe you were doing a little to much walking and not enough glassing. When I hunt the mountain you were on I spend the major portion of my day sitting and glassing, but that is just me... I have explained the scouting in previous posts, so I am not going to go over it again here. I cannot show you the deer on a DIY hunt, and I can't tie them to a tree for you.

That leaves us to the packers. Your right the OL Fire Chief is a good guy. But he did you no service in bad mouthing me. It cost you your hunt of a life time. I could pack you into my sweetest honey hole of honey holes and tell you your outfitter screwed you and there are no bucks and the outcome would not have been any different. Your Fire chief was very unprofessional. If he believed all the things that he told you about me and NTO he should have come to me with his concerns or quit the job. It's trashy and low class how he conducted himself. Not to mention he never once said anything to my face other than this is the best outfit I have worked with and Non-Typical Outfitters is doing it RIGHT.... If you are working for an outfit, you should be riding for the brand or quit.

Joseph & Cory, I'm sorry your hunt did not turnout as you planned. I mean that! And if you two would not have called me on the phone and MOTHER F---ED me I would have bent over backwards to help you. But, my friends, I draw the line in the sand with that type of conduct. It has been and will remain my policy. I feel that I did what I promised on the phone by me. I will admit the execution by the packers was less than perfect. BUT you both said you disagree with me and they were perfect. I don't know what else we have to argue about. If you want to take it to the Outfitters Licensing Board and file a complaint I will gladly explain my position to them as well.

Good Luck On Your Future Hunts!!
 
Hillbilly,

In the future please don't just throw out a blanket statement about Outfitters. Most outfitters are great people who sacrifice there own hunting for the success of their client. Give those good outfitters a little credit....
 
Well Robb, you are very wrong about me not dealing with stock. I grew up around them and spent most of my summers on my families working ranches. I can guarantee to everyone this is not a blanket statement made. Also we did not call you a, ?Mother F_____.? We told you to get us out of the Mother F----ing forked horn camp that you had us packed into. And from the long way. I am not even from this area and in one day I found an easier much shorter way in. Also it would not have scared any deer either.

RobbWiley and Non-Typical Outfitters did a horrible job and did not even come close to providing the service they outlined. I can guarantee this outfitter overbooks and takes the long way in. If you do not believe me well when you are in one of the areas he guides or does a drop camp just ask the other hunters in the area. I have no problem if an outfitter is fair and provides a good service telling others and helping the outfitter get other customers. But in this case I do not want to see another fellow hunter who is hard working and saves his money for a hunt to go with Non-Typical Outfitters and have a situation like us. There are other outfitters and I recommend other hunters in his area to go with a different guide service.

Bigonedown

Joseph Kinney
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-24-10 AT 06:37AM (MST)[p]Just wondering-- On NTO's Drop Camp page it states that cots, tents, stoves, etc are extra $$$$. Where those included in the Drop Camp price or did these guys pay extra for them, but not recieve the service? If they paid extra for them and did not recieve the service then that $$$$ should be reimbursed.

It does appear that Robb can not understand that HIS packers are HIS responsibility. NTO's packers are NTO. If HIS packers ruined the hunt because of things they said then that is NTO's responsibility.

I have been on 3 guided hunts and I have guided a dozen or so. Never had a bad experience. I attribute that to both sides accepting their responsiblities and following through with them.
 
I have zero stake in this thread but I posted a similar one about my '09 experience in Montana, although not a drop camp. My question or concern though is that once the money is paid and the hunt begins or is over the "client" appears to have zero say in the hunt (my outfitters reply) and it wouldn't matter if the hunt was good, bad or ugly and that might even include unethical or illegal! I don't think reporting something to the individual states licensing board will have any impact so the outfitter is in the clear and the client has wasted an entire year and the money. I recognize that clients have responsibilities as well but I do also think there should be some type of recourse when the hunt is really bad (not the killing) so that at least a portion of the money could be returned. I experienced this once in "spades" in Saskatchewan when my guide wrecked us and put me in the hospital for a week. My recourse was very limited as was the case in Montana. Your thoughts?

Jazz
 
Bigonedown,

I don't know who is wrong or right here (and don't care that much), but you sound pretty stupid trying to defend any use of the term "m---er f---er" in an angry phone call.

More tact certainly would have helped the situation.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-25-10 AT 00:34AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-25-10 AT 00:33?AM (MST)

Wow complaining that someone used an f-bomb over the phone, cry me a river baby.They're lucky thats the extent to which it went. If they treated me like they did these clients, I'd make sure he wouldn't be walking for 4-6 weeks
 
I have never responded to a forum, let alone hardly read them. After receiving a call from a hunting companion to read this particlar forum, i felt compelled to write my thread.

I have been fortunate enough over the years to have been on 19 drop camp hunts..... in those 19 years, 2 of these drop camp hunts were with Non-typical.I have seen many of misfortunes and also been involved with misfortunes over those past 19 years doing drop camps. I been the recipicant of late departures going into a hunt and coming out from a hunt,even 2 days coming out on a particlar hunt. I have come into my paid for camp only to have other hunters ocuppying our camp. I have woke in the night of our wilderness camp to find other groups setting up their camp.I have also rode into camp late at night only to find the whole pre-set up camp laying flat from a snow storm. I have witnessed a mule being shot due to a broken leg. I witnessed a mule drowning from falling in the river from icy rocks. Lastly, i have had my outfitter take out a body bag after dropping us off at our camp. I could go on and on....

The point i am trying to express here, is that SH##T happens, within our control and beyound our contol. It is easy to prepare for the expected, but there is no way to prepare for the un-expected. We cannot control people coming in on public ground, we cannot control snow storms, outfitters with their un-forseen problems, blown tire, broke down, guides quitting, hurt animals, and yes even wrong times and dates. It is all part of the equation, all part of the experience of doing such an adventure.

I doubt for a minute an outfitter wishes for us to be un- satisfied, his whole bussiness rides on his reputation. Sure there are a few out there, maybe that 2% just like our 2% of moron hunters.

Lastly, i have heard this over and over from outfitters. I am by no means pointing any fingers here in this forum, "the average hunter thinks they are better than they really are with being out in the wilderness",that said, when thing go teats up on the hunter they will then put the blame on the outfitter. I suspect their is some truth in their thinking.

For Non-typical outfitters to be raked through the coals and hammered in the forum is not in compliance with the reputation preceived with the majority who have booked a drop hunt with them. No question they could improve on a few issues, but yey, so can we all.....
 
Dirtfarmer,

Very good post.

I have been on eight guided hunts and s??t does happen. I have been left standing at the airport without a ride. Never had to shoot my horse but had some I wanted to shoot. Guide didn't show up. Cattle where they weren't supposed to be. Snowed so hard had to stay in camp because of visibility. Teamed up with another hunter on a 2:1 that wouldn't walk, this was partly my fault because I could have paid extra for a 1:1. Lied to about their success. With all that most of these turned out OK. Things will happen and you need to keep a positive attitude and keep hunting. The way in which an outfitter deals with the problems is the difference in a good one and a bad one.

I don't know anything about the setup for the hunt in question but I can see some logistical problems with a drop camp hunt in the Greys River. Many people think you shouldn't ride through the basins you are going to hunt and you certainly shouldn't camp in them. So unless you can access adjacent basins you may blow everthing out the first day and there not be ay game the remainder of the week. Most of the outfitters and the DIY are usually set up to trailer their horses and hunt different areas.

I haven't hunted with Non-typical but I have talked to them and to other people about them and they wouldn't be at the bottom of my list, maybe not at the top either but OK. They did seem to be deficient in supplying the outfitted drop camp that had been contracted for.

There are thousands of true horror stories with outfitters.

Just a few from people I know or have talked to personally.

Wyoming any elk hunt, last day, guy shoots at a bull at the top of a ridge, bull runs down the other side, guide says you missed, hunter says I don't think so, guide says if want an elk you need to shoot one of the cows that are still there,so he shoots the cow. When he walks up to the cow he can see the bull laying on the other side of the ridge. Guide turns him in for killing two elk, elk taken and fined. Outfitter assumes no responsibility.

BC 6 point rule on elk, guide says it legal,hunter shoots it, only five point, elk taken and hunter fined.

New Mexico well known outfitter, hunter checks five references, $8,000 hunt, gets a 20 year old guide that hasn't been there before, doesn't see an elk in five days, outfitter won't return calls.

My neighbor and three other go to Montana for elk and mule deer, total 9 hunters in camp, cost with license $5,400 each. One legal animal seen all week, a small muley and it's missed.

At least these people did go hunting, there are plenty that pay their money and outfitters go out of business.

I know more but I'm tired of typing.
 
I have been on two drop camps with Non-Typical outfitters in the past three years. I have no big complaints, I would book with them again. I don't post and I feel this will be my first and last post ever. I feel that I need to defend Robb Wiley at Non-Typical. Here it goes!

First of all for those that have fowl language and actually leave message with fowl language. Grow Up. If you didn't like his service than shut your mouth. Book another hunt with some other outfitter I'm sure you will find excuses with them. Robb states in an earlier post that if he does indeed do a bad job then "why do clients return"? I returned.

My first frop camp with him was not without reservations as I had never done a drop camp before. Robb himself put us into a area that looked promising. Opening morning found us with another guide service riding in, riding all through our hunting area. We didn't think that was very good for our hunting but continued to hunt hard. After all Robb cannot control others. We took respectable bucks. We called Robb and he checked his schedule and said he was available the next day to pack us out. A good hunt.

Last year was my second time drop camping with Non-Typical. Yes the packers were bad mouthing Rob. They stated "they were over worked and were treated badly". Yes it was the ol'fireman and the young guy just out of guide school. Very nice guys. Well I was not listening to Robb's conversations and not in hius camp. So really cannot say for certain that was the case. We listened to them and did not let it effect our plans for a big buck.

Yes a few small items were forgotten, no big deal. We helped set up camp after all it is a DIY hunt. I don't need to be treated like a king. A little hard work must be done to ensure a good hunt. Two days later the items were in our tent and a great bottle of whiskey to boot. We did not see Robb, not a problem we had hunting to do.

The young packer said "hike up this hill and glass back that way, that is where I saw a big buck". Well that evening we did and.......... YES..a big buck. Wow! they did there homework. The young packer did the scouting and did well. The next day found us glassing the area as the opener was still one day away. As we were glassing more hunters arrived and walked all through our hunting area. Did we like that....NO. Could Non-Typical put us into an area were others were not going to be...Maybe. Did they put us into an area with a big buck, YES. Yes, the promises were kept. Some communication is laking from Robb at NTO but we got thru it and had a good hunt. Others in the area shot bucks just not to our standards, that is ok. We didn't shoot a buck on the hunt but that is not because they weren't there. They were, we just didn't find them after opening morning.

Outfitter's cannot prepare everything it is called HUNTING and not SHOOTING. I will book with Non-Typical again.


Fishhead
 
...Bigonedown,

I can assure you that you were not cheated in the placement of your drop camp. I have never hunted with NTO so I will only comment on the location.

My dad lives in Afton, he scouted Red Top and the surrounding areas all year. I personally scouted with him on foot and horseback. We saw tons of monster bucks! All year!!

After long discussions and many location changes we decided to hunt the red top area because that is where we had seen the most good looking bucks...the place was loaded and we were very excited about a successful hunt.

At best we spotted one 4x4. We glassed and glassed and glassed...all we saw were fork'ed horn bucks and Doe being chased by wolves.

My brother and I are in our early twenty's and hunted smart to find deer. The days were way too hot, the deer were staying cool in the thick timber. We knew that the weather was going to suck a week in advance...we had no idea that all those big bucks were going to completely disappear! But that is what you get when your trying to hunt deer in a t-shirt at 10,000 feet in Wyoming and still sweating your ass off!!

With that kind of heat there is plenty of timber in the Red Top area for the deer to hide. We were both less than an hour hike from the herds we had been watching for months, we did our homework, we hunted smart with great optics, we came up short, and YOU CAME UP SHORT TOO...its called hunting!

When we got back nobody could believe that we were unable to find a single decent deer...let alone the monster bucks we were going for. Nobody got cheated here and you shouldn't defame people or dramatize insignificant details. I hunted the same spot buddy...
 
I've been on ten guided mule deer hunts and Robb Wiley is the only guide I've gone with more than once. I'm not rich and I cut firewood to get the money to go on my hunts. I research an area extensively before I'm willing to part with my hard earned dollar. Robb Wiley is by far the best guide I've ever been with. He scouts more than anyone I know of. I've been with him on three hunts and was lucky enough to harvest two great bucks. I killed a 193" 5x4 and a 190" 7x5 and the third hunt I ate my tag. Both of the bucks I killed were on very steep terrain and I could look down the hill and see either the traihead or a road. This country is steep, very steep. The fact that the unhappy drop camper was able to walk a couple hours and hit a road isn't disturbing to me at all. I've been all over this country with and without Non-Typical Outfitters. Most of that country, if you were on top of the mountain, you could hit a road in two hours of hiking. I could see "civilization" while we were field dressing both my bucks.

I would be willing to discuss other outfitters I've been with in the Greys River area and compare them to the HIGH quality a hunter gets with Robb Wiley anytime. Call me 707 599-6747 and we can discuss guides. ROBB WILEY IS WHAT EVERY HUNTER CAN ONLY HOPE FOR WHEN THEY BOOK A HUNT.
 
Thought that I should pipe in here having gone on a drop camp with non-typical outfitters in 2008. PRE HUNT: Living in Arizona there was no way i could go to Wyoming to scout so i decited to hire a guide this was my first drop camp so I did a bit of homework decided on non-typical outfitters. made several calls to robb wieley he fielded all my questions. I did not want any fluff just the truth about the area that I would be hunting. I felt that was just what I was given. I wanted to bring 3 other hunters, Robb told me that was too many for that area. He could have just booked us all to make more money but he did not. I appreciated this honesty. HUNT: we showed up a day early and he put us up in his guided camp for the night. The next day we rode in to the drop camp site it was already set up. We hunted for a few days taking 170 and 180 class deer. We were done so I hiked out to the guided camp to ask if we could come out a day early. The next day they rode in and were able to grant our request. he did not have to do that. I thought that the whole hunt was a well run operation. I would recommend non-typical outfitters to hunt with. if you have any questions about our hunt or what to expect if you book with them please feel free to call me I love to talk hunting Steve stayner 602-549-0844 Gilbert, Arizona
 
I'm a Wyo resident with my own horses, so I don't have a dog in this fight. I do have a basic question though. In this day of Geographic Information Systems like Arc Explorer, on-line & other topo map software, Paper USGS 1:24,000 topos, Google Earth, hand held GPS with downloadable topo coverages, etc., how do you not know that there is a road in proximity to your camp? These days, I feel like I know an area well before even getting there. Sounds like a little lack of homework to me by the hunters, but to each his own.
 
After picking the brains of two close friends who go on many giuded hunts,I chose Non-Typical outfitters for my once in a lifetime muledeer hunt. After receiving scouting pictures we made the long trek to Wyoming. I found everything to be just as i was told it would be. Extremely long strenuous days of hunting followed by very short nights.My hunt ended quite successfully. But more importantly we were treated very well and were hunting prescouted drainages just as promised.If the stock market ever recovers i would not hesitate to have Non-Typical outfitters take me to whatever drop camp Rob see's fit to reccomend.

Rick Shea
707-599-4605
 
WoW!! 5 different people came on here for the very first time, first post ever on MM, to give testimonials to the outstanding treatment they received from this outfitter. Does anyone other than myself not see the humor in this?

I like the fact that us members as a group can come on here and share of our own, or read of others, experiences of a guided hunt, both good and bad. As long as someone isn't making things up, a personal vendetta, which i don't see happening here, lets hear about some of the bad experiences as well as these jokers above who's motivation to post, at least to me, is highly suspect.

Joey
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-29-10 AT 01:58PM (MST)[p]All of the above posts present mixed feelings on NTO's creditability as a good outfitter or not. That's pretty common for most outfitters to have feedback that's both positve & negative. You can't please everyone & as i said before this thread won't make me not want to hunt with NTO. I respect the fact the owner & guides came on here to face the criticism & present a different side. I would of been a bit upset for the couple of things that went wrong (bed & stove, not because there was a road nearby)on this hunt but i wouldn't of stopped hunting after just two or three days. I would of finished the hunt, hunted as hard as i could & than had a conversation with NTO. I think if the outfitter said he didn't want more than 2 guys in one camp, he's telling you that because he wants you to have a good hunt & he's concerned about your success. Seems to me there's a lot of hunters that respect NTO & thankful for their opportunites. Respect is earned & not given & i suspect most of NTO's hunters have a lot of respect for the outfitter.

7 Mag
 
I think you have to take anyone with 1 post with a grain of salt. It would be real easy to get a couple of MM accounts and then go to work for your own cause. I'm in no-way insinuating fraud... Just that we should all be cautious when receiving information from single posters (or those with only a few).

We all started with one post and were suspect, but our reputations have slowly grown... It's just the way it works weather we like it or not.
 
Well, this is my second post. I use this website throughout the year. I receive their magazine and have for years. I also read the forums, especially when I'm planning a hunt to a particular area. I posted my comment with my phone number and I haven't had any of you "regulars" call me yet. Just because I don't have the time, or the desire, to rant and rave on a forum like this doesn't mean my comments are made by someone making up a MM account. Check with MM and see if Tom Cookman is a "real" legitimate subscriber to their magazine. I believe that the people who are posting for the first time have seen a huge injustice and feel compelled to respond.

The two biggest issues that keep coming up are a smokey stove and only one cot. Every camp stove that is packed in over rugged terrain needs to be adjusted to keep it from smoking up the tent. This is the FAULT of the PACKER not Robb Wiley. The disgruntled hunters keep saying how great the packers were, I contend that a "great" packer would've made sure the stove was assembled correctly. I have the same stove and it takes some manipulating to keep it from smoking. They are an excellent stove. The cot issue was addressed by Robb and he said (and nobody has discredited the statement) that two very nice Cabelas pads were packed in for the hunters. DID YOU HAVE A NICE PAD? I'd rather sleep on a nice pad than a cot.

As far as the packers being overworked....that is a laugher. They could've quit. Robb didn't force them up the mountain at gun-point...did he? When I was in his camp we were up at 3:30 and back to camp several hours after dark. I was completely wore out in 5 days. I could only imagine what it would be like to do that for an entire season of elk and deer hunting. The guides, packers, cooks and especially Robb Wiley were up before me and went to bed long after I went to sleep. These guys can do amazing things on very little sleep.

Once again...call me 707 599-6747. I live in Eureka California. I'm not some made up guy on MM.
 
SS1776, I find it hard to give any credibility to your post considering your past legal troubles. Was NTO willing to pack your paraplane into the drop camp for you?
 
tcook: no one said you were made up... Just that I'll take your comments with a grain of salt until I see a few more posts next to your name... to each his own.
 
Funny how Robb and Tcook both can not comprehend that the packers ARE NTO! The packers are NTO employees, they ARE NTO! This isn't rocket science. Blaming your own employees for problems is the same as blaming yourself.

If the drop hunters rented the stove and cots, as specified on NTO's website, and they did not recieve the service then NTO should refund that cost, maybe even go above and beyond to make it right. To blame the packers is pointing the finger right back at NTO.

Amazing. Simply amazing.
 
>WoW!! 5 different people came on
>here for the very first
>time, first post ever on
>MM, to give testimonials to
>the outstanding treatment they received
>from this outfitter. Does anyone
>other than myself not see
>the humor in this?
>
>I like the fact that us
>members as a group can
>come on here and share
>of our own, or read
>of others, experiences of a
>guided hunt, both good and
>bad. As long as someone
>isn't making things up, a
>personal vendetta, which i don't
>see happening here, lets hear
>about some of the bad
>experiences as well as these
>jokers above who's motivation to
>post, at least to me,
>is highly suspect.
>
>Joey

I was thinking the same thing !!!!
 
> Does anybody have experince with
>there drop camp. It seems
>like they shoot nice bucks
>year after year.
 
There appears to be an aweful lot of bagging on this outfitter over some cosmetic issues raised here. Some of it constructive and Robb should take it to heart to improve his service. I have come to learn that by in large, NTO does work there butts off to provide a quality hunting experiernce for there clients.
 
I personaly would never hire a guide, but it sucks that a persons livelyhood getts drug through the mud like this. anywhere in G and H has potential to produce the one. a drop camp means your on your own and you need to make it happen. sorry you had a bad hunt but its called hunting. ive eaten alot of tags but who hasnt. NTO has obviously produced nice deer so i hardly feel that they are a bad business. if i changed everthing i believe in about hiring a guide, i think NTO would be the first guy i call!!
 
What is "simply amazing" is that the clients are expressing how great the packers were. That is the angle I was taking. These "great" packers were hired by NTO to pack in the clients and set up their camp. They did a lousy job of it and the guys on this post seem to miss that very important aspect of this situation. From what I understand they no longer work for NTO. I know that I would've fired them if they conducted themselves in such an unprofessional manner too.

Sure, the outfitter is the final guy to take blame, but you have to give any business the opportunity to make things right. Leaving profane messages on a voicemail isn't the appropriate way to get resolution. Hunting for two days and being disgusted means these guys haven't spent much time in the field or they are used to hunting private property with tons of deer. 190" mule deer get that big by hiding out during hunting season. The fact that one out of four hunters killed a 190+" buck should be a testiminial to book a hunt with NTO. I'd sleep in a smokey tent on the ground next to a freeway if I could kill a 190" mule deer. $1,900 for that opportunity is DIRT CHEAP. Their are hundreds of guys willing to pay $10,000 or more to kill a 190+" mule deer.

Heck, the more I think about 1 out of 4 guys killing a monster buck.......I'll have NTO take me on a couple drop camps.
 
bigonedown says and was not disputed; Agreed to a pack-in, drop-in furnished camp for $1900. per man

1. Packers for some reason 3 hours late.

2. 4hr pack-in

3. missing 2 out of 4 cots

4. both stoves smoked up tents, wouldn't work properly

5. water about a mile from camp

6. "well traveled Forest Service road real close to camp"

7. Packers complaining of being overworked.

8. "more bears than deer"

9. claims to have let many small issues go.

10. absolutely apologized for dropping F-bomb on the phone recorder.

...and i see here by the outfitter that all this is his hunters or packers fault?

Those that wrote in support of this guy were not on this hunt. Maybe they would have been satisfied under these conditions but one guy even said that he parked his rig and hunted the same country in the same amount of effort that the "packed-in" guys did?? "Packed-in" to me means packed back in away from the roads!

The way i look at it, after accepting the apology for the foul language on the phone, this guy should have done all he could to make it right, not putting it back on the hunters or his own packers by claiming that the hunters part of the bad 2% and the packers got fired. In no way am i saying that Non-typical outfitters is a bad outfit, i'm am saying though, that IMO, he needs to apologize back to these people for not having camp fully in order as agreed in contract and not having explained before hand about that road.

Joey
 
I too have no dog in this fight, just a comment.

My general opinion of drop camps is that if the area you are being "dropped" into was so good, the outfitter would be hunting it himself.

You pay a second rate price you get a second rate hunt.
Though it is a chunk of change, $1900 is a drop in the bucket as far as guided hunts go and that's a shame.

I have had a great drop hunt experience on a drop hunt in Alaska, but hunting migrating caribou is much different than hunting high country muleys.

I'm pretty much done paying guides, but for the hunts I have used guides on in the past, I tracked their history for years before booking and never had a bad hunt.

I think that in most outfitters past there have been occasions where things went bad.
Things just happen.
Looking at the years of Rob's success, this might be the case.

Also folks that live in town and have things run by the face of their watch often get frustrated when they get far away from civilization and things don't run like clockwork.

Just my $.02.
HH
 
Tcook- Birds of a feather..... The hunters and the packers were both upset with NTO so they fed off of each other. Now, if NTO had hired competent workers, who could count to 4 so they could have had 4 cots and the workers would have set up the stoves properly, then there may not have been the issues. Instead, these guys get to a camp that is far under expectations. Sleeping on the ground in a cold tent, when you pay for a heated tent with a cot is a poor way to start your hunt. Someone posted how NTO packers checked on them, this didn't happen for these hunters.

That said, I have a good friend who, if he draws G, will be going with NTO on a guided hunt. He asked my opinion and I told him that NTO has a great reputation and kills some nice deer. They dropped the ball with these hunters and should do something to make it right. Just my opinion.
 
I know only one thing for sure: if i were paying money to be place in a drop camp i would look at the map for myself.

Then when i looked at that map i would ask where water was and i would see there was a road next my camp that i just road 4 hours to.

doesnt exactly excuse the guide, but come one you can read a map cant you????????
 
I don't think that a outfitter has the obligation to tell potential clients exactly where his drop camp is set up, but, one of the first questions i'd ask a outfitter is how far away from any roads we'd be. That honest answer would have brought to light, at least some of the this customers concerns.

Joey
 
It seems the debate continues. I think I can help solve the problem. Kick em all out of region G & H! The guides, packers, clients, resident hunters, non-residents,mountain lions,any wolfs,every last one of them! Give me a tag every year and I promise the problem will be solved. Cant we all just get along? BH1
 
2 point & Joey,

You?re both right, some things on this drop camp did not go perfect. Mostly centered around execution, I admit that fully. I agree that, as a business owner, I'm responsible for my employee's actions. I have no argument with either of you on that. I am also not throwing the packers under the bus. The decision was made to terminate them long before the first post on this site was made. It became obvious to me the fire chief was disgruntled because I demoted him from a guide to a packer. His actions hurt the drop camper?s success as well as the other packer that was working under him. He was the rotten apple at the bottom of the barrel. He is still a good guy he just was not doing his job... I had more challenges with our drop camps in 2009 than all other years combined. Also note, I had those challenges with two guys doing the same job one really good guy did the year before with no problems. That 2008 packer is an appreciated and important part of NTO still today.

The problem that I have is that Joseph & Corey went beyond trying to make it right with their messages on the phone and their personal attacks towards me and the rest of the crew that makes NTO what we are. I can assure you that if they would have taken a different approach with me, I would have done ANYTHING to help those boys out. From the bottom of my heart, all I have ever tried to do (with any of our clients) is my very best... but I refuse to reward someone for the way they acted towards me and the rest of the crew who make up NTO. If they would have come to me with their concerns DIFFERENTLY we would not be here today.

What they paid for is the blood sweat and tears it takes to learn 1500 square miles of rugged Wyoming mountains and for the scouting done in 2009. They pay for NTO to drop them into an area that is worthy of big deer and where we have found big deer for them to hunt. For the record, not that many years ago, another guide and I helped one of our hunters kill one of our very best deer ever off the mountain in question. That buck was a 216 gross non-typical. That buck was killed in view of your road Joey!!

I started last season with knowledge of 35-40 bucks over the 180 class give or take a few points. I am not going to put someone in a place where they are not going to have a good chance to kill a great buck. I enjoy a successful hunt more than anyone. I love to scout... The drop camps are a way to share success with a DIY type hunter, not just to take their money. The reason I do these hunts is for happy! hunters!, success stories, awesome pictures and to use my pack stock. What can I say, I have worked in other outfitter?s camps where we packed 25 miles into the backcountry. I like packing once in a while. It's also the type of hunt I would enjoy doing with my wife.

If I was all about the money I would book way more hunters than I do. Most years I could book twice as many hunters into our camps as I do. I set a limit to ensure our success. I do this job for the enjoyment of the lifestyle and to spend time on the mountain with good guys or gals..... not for the money. There are a lot easier ways to make a living TRUST ME.

I can assure you there are some lessons learned for us all. I will take all the info ?IN? to try to do a better job. I might even limit my drop camps to existing clients, good guys who see the benefits of our labor. We are going to continue to find big bucks in our scouting that we are not going to hunt with our guided hunters. These deer are in damn good areas that guys like Tom Cookman, Steve Stayner, Rick Shea & many, many more can benefit from.

I guess the big lesson here is to treat someone with a little respect and you will receive it in return.

Thanks for your words and/or open mind to ?loop?, ?elkspert?, ?7?, ?brookhunter?, ?pleasedear?, ?dirtfarmer?, ?fishhead?, ?dogfightd?, ?tcookman?, ?ss1776?, ?rshea?, ?wyomingbound?, and ?hunterharry?.

Robb Wiley
Non-Typical Outfitters
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-10 AT 12:36PM (MST)[p]Go with Double Diamond Outfitters, much classier outfit.
 
Robb said "That buck was killed in view of your road Joey!!"

Don't shoot the messenger here. This is a open forum, i've tried to keep a open mind on what this topic was about and from my own experiences, leave constructive comments on the topic. That was NOT my road! It was your road, the one you set the 4 hr pack-in, drop camp up next to and failed to tell your clients about!!

I care nothing if you like me. I'll never be in your camp or even ever want to. I do try in all cases to be fair though but after reading your attacking posts here, have come to the conclusion that you're not a person i'd like to do business with!

Joey
 
longhorns26, I appreciate you posting an outfitter you believe in and think would do a good job for hunters in this area. I would advise other hunters to check with other members to assist with finding a good hunting outfitter if they want to use one and doing their own research.

Robb, I really can't believe all the excuses and continued hatred. You?re amazing. I find it funny you start your above post calling Corey 2point and me Joey. For a business man you sure do act very immature. This was my first time ever using an outfitter and going on a drop camp and I was not impressed at all. Almost every hunt I have been on my hunting partners and I have discussed if a guide would have helped us and we have found in most hunts we do well on our own. We are young with the exception of my father and able to hike and maneuver well. I am sure as we get older a guide will help more when that time arrives. My father has bad knees so getting him to a hunting area without killing himself getting in makes a big difference. I said prior that you ruined me on ever using an outfitter but after talking to many other people I can't let one bad outfitter ruin it for them all. I thought I did good research when I picked Non-Typical Outfitters but after the hunt we all four agreed it wasn?t anything like we had planned or were promised. Also I have a stove for my personal tent and both that you provided were bent junk. That's why they filled the tents with smoke. Your service was horrible and I do not recommend anyone to use Non-Typical Outfitters.

Also someone in an earlier post mentioned a map and that we should have seen the road. We did have a map and the road was on it. The mistake we made was when looking at the map we thought the road was a lot farther away and after walking we learned how close it was and were shocked to say the least.

I couldn't not agree with Joey ?sageadvice? more and advise other hunters to go with a different outfitter.

Joseph Kinney
 
Sounds to me the outfitter owed you a little compensation at one point and sounds like he would have if you wouldnt have went about it the way you did. As soon as you started throwing the F word around and being a schmuck he basically said pack sand. I think I wouldve done the same thing if I were him.
 
Interesting how all the successful hunters praise the Outfitter and unsuccessful guys complain. Problem is that most guys think by hiring a guide they are buying success. Just doesn't work that way. I do beleive this is way blown out of control. I have done a few guided hunts. Fishing and waterfowl hunts have been great but I build in success by going to areas I know will be sucessful. Big game hunts have to many varibles. No outfitter can guaranty sucess but making sure the tent is dry, stove works and all items promised are there should be a priority. Not sure that happened in this case. But does the situation warrant this much bashing. I don't think so. Time to move on but I think the hatchet has been burried to deep for both parties and this is a no win situation.

How about those Saints?
 
That hatchet should never be buried when principle is at stake. The beef they have with the outfitter has little to do with animals. Everyone and their mother knows you cant garuantee where the animals will be. The issue is the tangibles that the outfitter has complete control over and in this situation he really screwed the pooch. No integrity on the outfitters part. You say your gonna provide something, then do it, no exceptions, end of story.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-17-10 AT 09:29PM (MST)[p]The question I have is all the positive guys were able to get him on the phone? He said himself "I am always in the mountains and not by the phone". Sounds Fishy?

I do have to give him credit becasue he always has big bucks for a lot of hunters. The truth is probally somewhere in the middle.
 
Kind of funny, I had someone treat me the same way the other day after a business thing went south. Noone really at fault and I would have done something to be fair to make it right but he wanted to yell and cuss and do the name calling thing so I told him to pack sand too !!! Glad this post was still up...lol
 
I believe that the outfitter should do something to make the deal right But what? They have already said they only USED him so they could learn the area for their next trip.(isn't that right) so giving they another chance I would guess is out.Would you hand over a piece of your business to some-one, I know I wouldn't.(as soon as these guys can they will be telling evreyone and his brother where to hunt this area) IMO The Packers had little class if they was telling stories behind NTO back to custonmers if you don't like the job quit.
Now you talk up how nice those guys was,THEY was the ones that didn't pack in the coxs.LOL

I have had great hunts and I have had piss poor hunts, But it part of the game you just have to roll with it.(never have had a guided one)
I do guide for Pheasants in south Dakota but heck that easy. LOL

It did seem like NTO was going to make things right but your handling of the phone call was the breaker.Maybe your first phone call should of been those dang packers missed packing in enough cox for us.



"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
So the misspelled word got to you, so the problem wasn't that they didn't have any COTS it was about a misspell word, Now I see why they didn't get the COTS,NTO could of misspelled the word too now I see what happen.. LMAO

I can't spell But I know a ASS when I see one.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
LMAO.....I thought I was the only one that noticed that. Who said "2nd grade" vocabulary anyway ?
 
Thanks Dustin
I did try to Achieve the highest grade I could. I happy you was able to see how well I did.

The post was about NTO not taking of business,and had clients that wasn't happy AND if they was going to make it right some how. I'm I close to what it was about.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 

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