Only In Washington

NeMont · Mar 23, 2009

Can things be so out of focus. Last week the outrage was over the AIG bonus fiasco. This week Geithner and Pres. Obama are throwing a HUGE subsidy to hedge funds, pension funds and private equity firms.

While the President and congress was busy demonizing AIG executive, little Timmy Giethner was working on a plan to give another Trillion away to the banks with the Treasury acting as the broker for a put option on "toxic asset" or in the new vernacular "legacy loans".

So now the U.S. Government is the largest hedge fund investor in the world. I thought everyone believes that hedge fund managers and their compatriots are the reason we are in this mess to start with. How is giving the a $970 BILLION loan with no downside potential going to solve this? Yes the are expected to risk $30 Billion of their "own" money but these are no recourse loans that have no downside for the private investors and Tremendous upside potential profits for the hedge fund guys. Do any of you on here hope that your pension plan jumps in an buys up toxic assets?

Even Krugman thinks it is a bad deal for the taxpayers.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/

Nemont

overton · Mar 23, 2009

I'm shocked.

RELH · Mar 23, 2009

I'm not!!!

RELH

D13er · Mar 23, 2009

I'm sick...

great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB

REDDOG · Mar 23, 2009

its ok guys, we just need to give him a chance.

and be thankful we are rid of the evil GWB (i just wanted to beat piper to it)

huntindude · Mar 23, 2009

Market was up 6.8 % today, seems Wall Street doesn't worry about it as much as you do. if this gets the banks moving and the economy going again it's a small investment in the big picture. this depression started with the banks and it will end with the banks, end of story. nobody is ready to say this is going to cure anything but it's obvious it's brought a little much needed optimism around the world as well as here at home.

Bush started the bank salvage operation and we all knew that was just a down payment, don't act shocked that more money is being thrown at it. if we can get the economy fixed and all we have is some inflation for a while out of then it was a good move. I think it scares some of you to death that it will work because you have so much negativity invested in Obama's imminent failure, I have my doubts as well but I'll take what I can get.

proutdoors · Mar 23, 2009

Some inflation? Another trillion dollars and you say 'some' inflation. Talk about an understatement. You have more faith in the government than I do, and also in Wall Street. Why do you think the idiots who got us into this mess with get us out of it?

PRO

www.oddiction.com

huntindude · Mar 23, 2009

A trillion is a lot, but we racked up over 4 trillion in debt in the last 8 years and now owe over 11 trillion and what do we have to show for it? so if a few trillion gets us out of this mess and keeps us out of a prolonged depression is it worth it? so what if a new pickup cost 60k rather than 40k if you have the money? I'm not saying this should be taken lightly but what are the options? can't is all we seem to hear from the right, did you notice how quiet the opposition was today? that speaks volumes.

No I'm not saying we're out of this by a long shot, but like I said take what good news you can get.

NeMont · Mar 23, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Mar-23-09 AT 08:26PM (MST)[p]HD,

It doesn't scare me that it will work. What frightens me is that people now have the idea that government is the answer. . I have nothing "invested in Obama's failure". He will get to own it lock, stock and tomahawk. If he succeeds more power to him. I choose not to participate as much as possible because it is all phon

Think about what has transpried in a week
Last week ($165 million on the line)
AIG=Evil corporations and evil executives.

This week ($1 Trillion)
Handing a trillion bucks to hedge fund managers to play with and in order to get them to play along the taxpayers of this country are limiting the down side risk.

The market can go up but nominally we are losing already in value because the dollar had the single biggest one day loss in history. So what if the market rallies then the dollar declines more quickly all that is gain is fake wealth not real wealth.

I am not certain I want to be on the hook as an American taxpayer to help purchase toxic debt with fake money created out of thing air.

I am actually bullish on alot of things but unfortunately the American economy is not one of them. If I could figure out what currency to hold I would be short the dollar as well.

Nemont

NeMont · Mar 23, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Mar-23-09 AT 08:32PM (MST)[p]I see the Russians and the Chinese are looking to dump the dollar and have a new reserve currency. I didn't hear that talk when Bush was in office.

If Beijing is saying dump the dollar then they know for certain that the days of the U.S. economy are numbered. Think about what a collapse in the dollar would cost them. They must figure it is cheaper for them in the long run to let the dollar go down the tube then to have to finance our consupmtion any longer.

Just wait to see how much Obama kisses their @ss not to use this finacial weapon of mass destruction.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7851925a-17a2-11de-8c9d-0000779fd2ac.html

Nemont

huntindude · Mar 23, 2009

This talk has been around for a while.

We are going to brown nose China we have been for some time, I expect it. we sold out a long time ago, all Obama is doing is putting the fallout on a fast track.

Still as bad as it is, where is the better plan at? when things take a short turn for the better the righties in congress just sit down and shut up , when we see another bad day and we will soon then they'll be flipping their lips again as if they had a clue. am I the only one who reads into that they've got nothing? sometimes a poor plan is better than no plan.

huntindude · Mar 24, 2009

Stock market is pretty level today with only modest profit taking from yesterday. dollar is up in world hopes that the US economy is ready to improve. only down side I see is wheat is down 15 cents due to the higher dollar.

It's all bad all the time.

NeMont · Mar 24, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-09 AT 08:18PM (MST)[p]I take a longer view then what the market did today, yesterday or tomorrow.

Don't worry to much about the dollar rally because it is going to go the other way and when it does it will be rapid and astounding. Don't know when the collapse of the dollar will occur but it will at some point. Then your wheat will be like gold or any other commodity.

I am actually optmistic about the world at large but a bear on the U.S. economy for at least the next 15 and probably more like 20 years.

There were lots of people who became wealthy during the depression. It is a great opportunity for gutsy investors when their is panic and blood in the streets.

its all good.

Nemont

Bugler · Mar 24, 2009

So im getting ready to buy a nice home here where i live. I have saved my VA Certificate for a rainy day never used it since 1987. Think this is a good time or should I wait?
If wheat is gonna be gold what will beef be? I have a few. lol
Im good either way it goes, depression or not. Not saying im fireproof but close to it, I really feel bad for the things that may come of out this socialistic Govt we have.
Im wondering how many of them were hippie types, it seems like a generational thing to me. Not implying taht everyone from the free love generation is a lib not at all but there seems to be something to it. I dont know maybe im listenting to Mark Savage too much.

proutdoors · Mar 24, 2009

Nemont, your post reminds me of the saying by Warren Buffett, " When people are greedy be fearful, when people are fearful be greedy." People are showing a lot of fear in the inveting world, guess it's time to be greedy. And, contrary to what liberals think, being greedy is not bad if you don't resort to dishonest means of obtaining what you are after.

PRO

www.oddiction.com

huntindude · Mar 25, 2009

I'm bullish on real eatate, but I always have been. I think there are some deals to be had and the interest rates make it an even better time if you need to borrow, my only concern is I'm not sure prices have bottomed yet. we have another wave of ARM loans coming due and predictions are for many more forclosures in the next 2 years. real eastate is as good of place as you can be when it comes to inflation and inflationm is coming. we're making more people and we're not making more land, buy.

Nemont I agree we're in for a long hard ride and a few up days on the street don't mean that much, but remember attitude is half the battle.

NeMont · Mar 25, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Mar-25-09 AT 10:00AM (MST)[p]With inflation coming and if you have good credit borrowing money to buy "real" assets is a great plan. According Jim Rogers, Rogers Holdings, farming is going to be a great business in the coming years.

I agree with the attitude part but there is also a reality piece to properly look at things. There are opportunities here in the U.S. but what the Fed and Treasury are doing is good in the short term, long term it is going to be ugly. My time horizon is long enough that I want to avoid as much as possible the coming problems in the U.S. If I was just worried about the next 6 months I would be cheering on Geithner and Bernanke but my 35 year plus time horizon makes that impossible.

Nemont

AZStickman · Mar 25, 2009

NeMont and HDude:
I'd like to thank you for the point counterpoint dialogues you get going on this forum. I find them very informative and appreciate the time you take to post here.... Terry

wetmule · Mar 25, 2009

NeMont is Dan Akroid
Hdude is Jane Curtain - The Ignorant ****

Moondog · Mar 25, 2009

I am too lazy to do the research, but I heard today that Obama's very first budget has a larger deficit number than all previous 43 presidents COMBINED!

Chew on that for a moment.

NeMont · Mar 25, 2009

That is no even close to being accurate.

Look at how big the national debt is, that is the accumulated budget deficits. $11 Trillion is still far more then $1.75 trillion or $2 Trillion or what ever the final actual number is.

Nemont