Point Guard

bragabit

Active Member
Messages
809
Huntin Fool states that you now have the option to buy a "point guard" option for $5. The point guard allows you to return your tag within 24 hours of the start of a hunt and regain all bonus points plus the one for that year, you forfeit all tags fees. You can only use this option 1 time per specie. One time without using your points.
I have not seen, or heard of this option anywhere else. It is a big change to get no coverage. Is this info legit?
 
Last I heard, which was last week, tag return "might" be available for the Deer draw. It is specifically setup as part of the membership portion of the Portal, which is not live at this point in time.

I discount EVERYTHING coming from Huntin Fool.
 
It's legit and supposed to start with the deer draw. There are a lot of problems with the program that apparently aren't going to fix. The potential for abuse is very high the way it's set up. Basically if you can afford to pay for family members licenses and bonus points you can build a bonus point pool with a couple people and always have someone with high points to put in with for the rest of your life. And I've heard more benefits will go to guys that pay more for their membership. Basically gonna have an advantage if you have money which is BS.
 
per the new rule:

"...To prevent this from happening, the proposed rule establishes that a person is only eligible to surrender a tag for a specific species once before the bonus points accrued for that species must be expended."
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-24-16 AT 07:28PM (MST)[p]>EVERYTHING?? Really? Seriously? What gives?

Too much incorrect info getting passed to their customers, that pay enough it shouldn't happen.
 
Except the rules they put in place do nothing to stop abuse. Example:
I have four non hunting family members. I have enough money to buy each of them a 37 dollar license and a 13 dollar bonus point every year. I begin to build their bonus points. Eight years from now I have four family members that have 10 bonus points. I put in with them and we draw a top notch tag. My non hunting family member returns their tag and I go hunting. Next year we put in together again except this year all four non hunting family members have 11 points. I put in with the same guy as last year. We draw again. He gives his tag back and I go hunting again. He loses his points and his $135. His points start over and I move on to family member number two. They now have 12 points. I get drawn again. Go hunting. Next year do it again. Then move on to family member number and so on. All the while family member number one is building his points again. It's a vicious cycle and if you have the money to do it you'll get top tier tags every 3 years. Plus you're going to have guys selling their points to put in with them because they know they can get their points back.
 
I applied yesterday online and there was no place to actually pay the $5 for point guard. I called the F&G and they told me that it won't be available for this years draw, too many problems with it.
 
I attended the meetings last year at AZGFD headquarters where the portal membership idea with tag return benefits was discussed. Not a whole lot of support for this program in the meetings and I was totally disgusted that they proceeded with this idea anyway. I believe I attended at least two meetings on this issue, ditched my wife and three little kids both nights for this dog and pony show.

The proposal was pitched as optional without any impact to other "non-member" hunters. I repeatedly reminded the presenter that people that abuse the program will absorb tags that would have been available to all "regular" draw hunters. The re-issue process was also nebulous and frought with problems. The group app issues mentioned above were also discussed at length in the meetings last year. I lost a lot of faith in the Arizona Game and Fish department and haven't even had the heart to follow the Commission notes since then.

Unless AZGFD made some major changes to this program it will be an epic tag entitlement failure on par with some of the worst Utah programs. I believe one of the groups that is approved to accept surrendered tags is actually run by one of the people that helped write the failed bill to divert 200 Arizona draw tags to an EXPO a couple years ago.

I submitted an idea to AZGFD to tweak the group bonus point averaging that would take a lot of the risk out of this program and reduce abuse of the non-hunters building points for outfitters on regular draw applications. My idea would put a cap on how much the lowest point holder on a group app could bonus up.

I have no idea where my group averaging proposal stands, if there is some traction on the group averaging idea I may enter the public input process again. I am still profoundly disappointed in the Arizona Game and Fish department and the Commission for not stomping out the membership tag return idea sooner. The future implications of a membership program with extra hunting privileges should concern anyone that hunts Arizona.

Non-residents are splitting hairs trying to figure out tag numbers under the 5/5 change when the impact of this program could be a MUCH bigger screw job on their ability to draw tags in the future. Anyone that thinks a membership program will give them an edge needs to understand the upper membership tiers could be dependent on things other than a financial investment. Slippery slope for sure.

If anyone has more fresh information on this program I will happily stand corrected.

Ryan
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-16 AT 07:37PM (MST)[p]>Except the rules they put in
>place do nothing to stop
>abuse. Example:
>I have four non hunting family
>members...

I had to read this a few times...I think I understand it. In this scenario, you are using your family members to increase your group bonus points. After you are drawn, you put in with family member #2 who has 11 points, along with your 2 (loyalty, hunter ed), the group average is 7. The next year you apply with #3...then #4...Right?

Heck, if it was only $5 more per member, you would always apply with all 4 of them, increasing your Group BP,s and they would always return their tag.

Seems like a legal strategy, but the $5 point-guard insurance doesn't seem right. Returning the tag and retaining BP's should be the exception rather than the rule, and definitely not after the season starts.

Oh well, just my opinion. But what do I know, I'm from TN. You draw one of the quota hunt deer or turkey tags and don't hunt, tough. But, most of those tags only take 2-3 years to draw. Also, the for any group application, the applicant with the minimum # of BP's sets the value for the group. If I have 5 and my buddy applies with me and he has zero, the we have zero.
 

Arizona Hunting Guides & Outfitters

SilverGrand Outfitters

Offering mule deer, elk, antelope, bighorn sheep, javelina, and turkey hunts in Nevada and Arizona.

Arizona Elk Outfitters

Offering the serious hunter a chance to hunt trophy animals in the great Southwest.

A3 Trophy Hunts

An Arizona Outfitter specializing in the harvest of World Class big game of all species.

Arizona Strip Guides

Highly experienced and highly dedicated team of hardworking professional Arizona Strip mule deer guides.

Urge 2 Hunt

THE premier hunts in Arizona for trophy elk, mule deer, couse deer and javelina.

Shadow Valley Outfitters

AZ Strip and Kaibab mule deer, big bulls during the rut, spot-n-stalk pronghorn and coues deer hunts.

Back
Top Bottom