POLL: Should tags be set aside for outfitted hunters?

Should tags be set aside for outfitted hunters?


  • Total voters
    145
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Founder

Founder Since 1999
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Take the poll above, then expand on your opinion. Should tags be set aside for outfitted hunters?

Should the tags come out of NR tag allotments or resident allotments?
If yes on set aside tags, what percentage is reasonable?
Should there be worry that the outfitting industry could suffer if there aren't tags set aside for their clients?
 
Most hunters on MM are DIY type folks or at least respect the DIY folks so I think your poll is going to be "Nope" in an absolute landslide.
 
No. The outfitters already have their handout with the ridiculous wilderness rule. No more candy to the outfitters. Like the rest of us, their businesses can succeed or fail depending on marketing and quality of service.
 
Try telling the poll results to Alaska and Canada where non residents MUST hire a guide to hunt most species. The Wyoming outfitter association has discussed this when it comes to sheep, goat, bears, moose and elk.
 
I'm not sure. As mentioned, the perspective of a NR is different. I'm leaning toward its none of Wyomings concern what I think.
 
Try telling the poll results to Alaska and Canada where non residents MUST hire a guide to hunt most species. The Wyoming outfitter association has discussed this when it comes to sheep, goat, bears, moose and elk.
Brown Bear, Dall Sheep, and Mountain Goat is hardly most species in Alaska.
 
The Wyoming outfitter association has discussed this when it comes to sheep, goat, bears, moose and elk.
You keep posting this statement around the Wyoming forum and while I'm not one to defend the likes of WYOGA, it's an absolutely false statement.
 
You keep posting this statement around the Wyoming forum and while I'm not one to defend the likes of WYOGA, it's an absolutely false statement.

How about its just a flat out lie...you're being too kind.
 
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Though I am certainly not in any way affiliated with that derelict group several friends who were in attendance heard this discussed at their Nov. 19th past meeting. Perhaps you are a guided hunt lover crony? Don’t be so naive, perhaps a little judicial review will refresh your memory. https://casetext.com/case/the-wyoming-outfitters-association-v-corbett
I get it now: you heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend. In some places that's enough to impeach a President.
 
I get it now: you heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend. In some places that's enough to impeach a President.

The Wyoming Outfitters Association V. Corbett
The Legislature has responded to the outfitters' requests, on behalf of themselves and nonresident hunters (their main clients), for protective legislation by (a) enacting a law requiring that nonresident hunters have a licensed guide or outfitter to hunt in wilderness areas, Wyo. Stat. § 23-2-401 (1999); Sadler Aff. at ¶ 7, (b) establishing a special license for nonresidents at a higher fee, in order to improve their odds of drawing a license by being in a smaller group, Gilroy Decl. at ¶ 57, see Wyo. Stat. § 23-2-101(f)(1999) (providing for special nonresident drawing), and (c) and moving the regular drawing to earlier in the year to accommodate outfitters' clients. Gabriele 1st Aff. at ¶ 12. However, some of their lobbying efforts have been unsuccessful. Gilroy Decl. at ¶ 56. The governor of Wyoming vetoed a bill that would have created a separate pool of licenses to be set aside only for hunters using outfitters' services. Id. They also lost (by one vote) legislation that would have made the special nonresident drawing (under Wyo. Stat. § 23-2-101(f) (1999)) for only nonresidents using outfitters' services. Gilroy Decl. at ¶ 58.
 
Not only NO BUT HELL NO!!! Give everyone a chance for those tags then if ya draw and want to go outfitted go for it!!
 
Try telling the poll results to Alaska and Canada where non residents MUST hire a guide to hunt most species. The Wyoming outfitter association has discussed this when it comes to sheep, goat, bears, moose and elk.
WOA v Corbett says nothing about this flyer. Quit with the red herrings.
 
No. The outfitters already have their handout with the ridiculous wilderness rule. No more candy to the outfitters. Like the rest of us, their businesses can succeed or fail depending on marketing and quality of service.
Nevada has outfitter allocated tags and to my knowledge no regulations regarding who can hunt the wilderness...
 
Hunters should have the option. Providing tags only to outfitters will increase hunt costs, by limiting tags to outfitters only. The DIY hunter gets pushed aside, and that is NOT good for hunting or the sport overall. Hunting tradition has enough problems keeping hunters in the sport and recruiting new hunters. This does not help the sport in any way.
 
The wildlife belongs to the people. Not the rich or the poor, or the people too busy to scout. All tags should go into one pool where all the people have equal chance.

There should be no auction tags either. If the State needs more money, raise the price of all tags or have a bake sale or set up a GoFundMe account and accept donations.

If you got a tag and you want to hire a guide, bless your soul.
 
Just another form of welfare. If you want welfare move out here to the PNW so you can get your share of handouts.

I love WY. Planning my migration there as soon as my kid is out of school. I don't see that state as that kind of place and am surprised the outfitters would be looking for free handouts like that. They already have probably the most outfitter friendly rules with the vast amount of wilderness and NR wilderness rules. If you can't make it in that playing field then... yeah move to Oregon and hold your hand out for your cheese.
 
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! IMO no percentage of tags should be allocated specifically for the guides from either the resident or NR quotas. As someone else had stated earlier, it’s a business... if you the business owner want to generate clients, then you should advertise & grow that business. Try Groupon!!! Lol
 
Just another form of welfare. They already have probably the most outfitter friendly rules with the vast amount of wilderness and NR wilderness rules.

The problem is many of the units have gone to limited quota tags. Now outfitters who had built decades of years of clientele and repeat business now can no longer get tags for their areas. The majority of the Cody front, the Bighorns etc. are all limited quota areas. Some outfitters whom in the past would get 20 hunters now get None. You can’t survive on Zero hunters when you have guides, cooks, horses and equipment to sustain. IMHO what should happen is the outfitters need to pair up with large ranch landowners and move the majority of outfitted hunting off public lands and into private lands. The state then should pursue a Utah style CWMU scheme where the landowners get guaranteed tags in exchange for guaranteed public access. A win-win for both parties. My 2 cents.
 
The problem is many of the units have gone to limited quota tags. Now outfitters who had built decades of years of clientele and repeat business now can no longer get tags for their areas. The majority of the Cody front, the Bighorns etc. are all limited quota areas. Some outfitters whom in the past would get 20 hunters now get None. You can’t survive on Zero hunters when you have guides, cooks, horses and equipment to sustain. IMHO what should happen is the outfitters need to pair up with large ranch landowners and move the majority of outfitted hunting off public lands and into private lands. The state then should pursue a Utah style CWMU scheme where the landowners get guaranteed tags in exchange for guaranteed public access. A win-win for both parties. My 2 cents.
People don't fall for this, he is just being himself and trying to stir up trouble. He needs to change his handle to highfasttroller.
 
"Guaranteed public access" on a cwmu can be a clown show and a hell of a long way from a "win".

Though I am not eligible as a Non res., my friends from Utah always speak highly of them (CWMU). How would you like to hunt the Q creek ranch or the Pathfinder or any of those big ranches and have several public tags available every year? They have to give you access and many of them even guide you as they want to guarantee their success rate and quality. I think Colorado has a similar one called Ranching for Wildlife with similar high reviews. I would rather get the outfitters off the public lands and onto private ranches so there is less competition and friction between outfitters and public sportsmen and also open up these ranches for public hunters. A win-win, public tags and give the outfitters a livelihood on private ranches. The terms we can discuss but it seems like now we have constant infighting and the public is not benefitting enough off the current system.
 
Though I am not eligible as a Non res., my friends from Utah always speak highly of them (CWMU). How would you like to hunt the Q creek ranch or the Pathfinder or any of those big ranches and have several public tags available every year? They have to give you access and many of them even guide you as they want to guarantee their success rate and quality. I think Colorado has a similar one called Ranching for Wildlife with similar high reviews. I would rather get the outfitters off the public lands and onto private ranches so there is less competition and friction between outfitters and public sportsmen and also open up these ranches for public hunters. A win-win, public tags and give the outfitters a livelihood on private ranches. The terms we can discuss but it seems like now we have constant infighting and the public is not benefitting enough off the current system.

How is that going to fix the problem you describe near Cody in your last post? All the best hunting is on public.

I'm a hard no any outfitter set asides or any stupid RFW scheme. You talk as though Utah and CO have these perfect systems, when in fact, they're full of flaws, problems, etc.

In CO, you cant even apply for them as a NR. Further, the state of CO has legislated that public lands within the border of RFW properties, even if accessible to the public, can not be hunted unless you have a RFW permit. In other words, hunters are being denied the use of their public land with a valid tag for the units that they draw where RFW lands are enrolled. All kinds of problems with the transferable LO tags as well.

In Utah, the CWMU operators get to determine when the public hunters get to hunt, typically well after their high paying clients have left. I've also heard cases of people being denied access to certain areas of he CWMU...huh, wonder why that would be? Nothing better than hunting after the best of the best critters have been picked over.

I also think these programs are in direct conflict with the NAM of wildlife conservation and turn wildlife into a commodity to be exploited by the well heeled at the expense of the public.

I will fight any ideas of RFW, CWMU, or outfitter set asides using every bit of political influence I have...we don't owe anyone a living off our wildlife resources.

I say if you're so easily impressed with the RFW/CWMU programs...nothing stopping you from moving to those states, there's highways that run north, south, east, and west...pick one and get on the road.
 
Looks like the idea behind the 30% tag set aside came from this presentation...
 

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How is that going to fix the problem you describe near Cody in your last post? All the best hunting is on public.

I'm a hard no any outfitter set asides or any stupid RFW scheme. You talk as though Utah and CO have these perfect systems, when in fact, they're full of flaws, problems, etc.

In CO, you cant even apply for them as a NR. Further, the state of CO has legislated that public lands within the border of RFW properties, even if accessible to the public, can not be hunted unless you have a RFW permit. In other words, hunters are being denied the use of their public land with a valid tag for the units that they draw where RFW lands are enrolled. All kinds of problems with the transferable LO tags as well.

In Utah, the CWMU operators get to determine when the public hunters get to hunt, typically well after their high paying clients have left. I've also heard cases of people being denied access to certain areas of he CWMU...huh, wonder why that would be? Nothing better than hunting after the best of the best critters have been picked over.

I also think these programs are in direct conflict with the NAM of wildlife conservation and turn wildlife into a commodity to be exploited by the well heeled at the expense of the public.

I will fight any ideas of RFW, CWMU, or outfitter set asides using every bit of political influence I have...we don't owe anyone a living off our wildlife resources.

I say if you're so easily impressed with the RFW/CWMU programs...nothing stopping you from moving to those states, there's highways that run north, south, east, and west...pick one and get on the road.

I can say from my viewpoint, the CWMU is a joke. Instead of creating access it has restricted far more land than it has opened up. Western Box Elder County is a perfect example. Almost every ranch enrolled had some sort of public access.
 
People don't fall for this, he is just being himself and trying to stir up trouble. He needs to change his handle to highfasttroller.

JM,

I
How is that going to fix the problem you describe near Cody in your last post? All the best hunting is on public.

I'm a hard no any outfitter set asides or any stupid RFW scheme. You talk as though Utah and CO have these perfect systems, when in fact, they're full of flaws, problems, etc.

In CO, you cant even apply for them as a NR. Further, the state of CO has legislated that public lands within the border of RFW properties, even if accessible to the public, can not be hunted unless you have a RFW permit. In other words, hunters are being denied the use of their public land with a valid tag for the units that they draw where RFW lands are enrolled. All kinds of problems with the transferable LO tags as well.

In Utah, the CWMU operators get to determine when the public hunters get to hunt, typically well after their high paying clients have left. I've also heard cases of people being denied access to certain areas of he CWMU...huh, wonder why that would be? Nothing better than hunting after the best of the best critters have been picked over.

I also think these programs are in direct conflict with the NAM of wildlife conservation and turn wildlife into a commodity to be exploited by the well heeled at the expense of the public.

I will fight any ideas of RFW, CWMU, or outfitter set asides using every bit of political influence I have...we don't owe anyone a living off our wildlife resources.

I say if you're so easily impressed with the RFW/CWMU programs...nothing stopping you from moving to those states, there's highways that run north, south, east, and west...pick one and get on the road.

”How is that going to fix the problem you describe near Cody in your last post? All the best hunting is on public.” Very easily, by providing public access to some great ranches with tags on the Two-Dot ranch, Mooncrest Ranch, Trail creek ranch and a myriad of others for the public and getting outfitters to partner up with these large ranches to run and manage their outfitting operations. Some of those Cody outfitters have already partnered up with large ranches in the famed Area 7 area and now provide whitetail hunts in the Black Hills on private ranches. The key here is to not be afraid of CWMUs as ask most people from Utah and Colorado and they will give you by and large highly favorable comments. Many of those large ranches like Desert Land and Livestock even provide their own guides and trucks so they keep their harvest numbers high and the age class quality management high. The biggest bulls are often taken by the public land hunters as they are the hungriest for that highly coveted chance to hunt a large private ranch. If we can get these outfitters to change their ways and see a guaranteed income stream coming from private lands it’s a win-win situation. We can always discuss the details and perhaps help fix some of the other states pitfalls and mistakes. Getting the outfitters off public lands opens up far more opportunity for public sportsmen.
 
Though I am not eligible as a Non res., my friends from Utah always speak highly of them (CWMU). How would you like to hunt the Q creek ranch or the Pathfinder or any of those big ranches and have several public tags available every year? They have to give you access and many of them even guide you as they want to guarantee their success rate and quality. I think Colorado has a similar one called Ranching for Wildlife with similar high reviews. I would rather get the outfitters off the public lands and onto private ranches so there is less competition and friction between outfitters and public sportsmen and also open up these ranches for public hunters. A win-win, public tags and give the outfitters a livelihood on private ranches. The terms we can discuss but it seems like now we have constant infighting and the public is not benefitting enough off the current system.


The CWMU dictates where the public hunts and when they hunt, just like CO Ranching for Wildlife. It doesn't take much of a sleuth to see the screw job public hunters are getting under those programs.
 
I can say from my viewpoint, the CWMU is a joke. Instead of creating access it has restricted far more land than it has opened up. Western Box Elder County is a perfect example. Almost every ranch enrolled had some sort of public access.

I can’t post photos here as Founder makes it difficult but you can go to the Utah DWR hunt planner and disprove your fallacious assertion. There are at least a dozen large ranches, offering over 100 buck deer CWMU tags in Box Elder county alone not to mention the elk, antelope and other species public hunters can now access hundreds of thousands of private acres. Don’t be afraid of these CWMUs or Ranching for Wildlife programs, we just need to fix the pitfalls and mistakes in how they are set up. Utah even has a full time coordinator who works as a liaison setting them up and evaluating and making after action reports to keep them fair and equitable. Most hunters who have participated in them have highly favorable remarks and the landowners can now hire full time outfitters to provide a constant revenue stream for both parties. A win-win strategy for the most part. The most exciting hunts are the youth hunts on these big ranches. Skip to the last 2 minutes and hear the landowner talk about CWMUs on the famed Alton ranch.
 
The CWMU dictates where the public hunts and when they hunt, just like CO Ranching for Wildlife. It doesn't take much of a sleuth to see the screw job public hunters are getting under those programs.

Not true at all. If there are multiple complaints from public hunters the state has and will shut them down. Sure there will be a few bad apples out there but we can certainly learn from their mistakes and pitfalls and set it up in a fair and equitable basis. The vast majority of hunters who have participated give them highly favourable reviews. Utah even has a full time hunt coordinator who monitors and evaluates the CWMUs and issues after action reports as I am sure Colorado has an equivalent. Wouldn’t you like to take your grandson on one of these famed ranches like the Q creek or Pathfinder or Two Dot and have a great experience? The youth hunts on these CWMUs are the most exciting and actually have decent draw odds on some of the ranches.
 
The problem is not the Alton, Deseret, Ensign ranch property's.....they do add value to the program

I think you need to look at the hunt planner.....see what value the elk hunts are giving. See all the public ground included in them and for what? A few tags? All that ground should be accessible by the general public to hunt mature bulls on the LE hunt as well a the general spike hunt and cow hunts

As far as deer....that 100 is a speck of the # of hunters that used to hunt that same ground.....also look at the amount of accessible public ground included in some of the units.

Fallacious? Pretty easy to disprove anything you want to throw out there.
I know of and hunted most of those 12 ranches prior to the beginning of the program. There may be as many hunters....but most if not all the tags given to the operators are sold to non-residents which equals less resident hunters which equals lost opportunities.
 
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"Utah even has a full time hunt coordinator who monitors and evaluates the CWMUs and issues after action reports"

Great so let's spend money to hire someone to monitor private ground/tags....so if the tag #s stay the same it is costing the DWR/public money to have a program that is designed to put money in a landowners pocket.

Crazy to think that is in the public interest?
 
The problem is not the Alton, Deseret, Ensign ranch property's.....they do add value to the program

I think you need to look at the hunt planner.....see what value the elk hunts are giving. See all the public ground included in them and for what? A few tags? All that ground should be accessible by the general public to hunt mature bulls on the LE hunt as well a the general spike hunt and cow hunts

As far as deer....that 100 is a speck of the # of hunters that used to hunt that same ground.....also look at the amount of accessible public ground included in some of the units.

Fallacious? Pretty easy to disprove anything you want to throw out there.
I know of and hunted most of those 12 ranches prior to the beginning of the program. There may be as many hunters....but most if not all the tags given to the operators are sold to non-residents which equals less resident hunters which equals lost opportunities.

So many fallacious assertions, it’s hard to know where to begin. 100+ tags is not. A few tags, not to mention the elk, antelope and other species these CWMUs offer. A huge amount of public hunting opportunity on private lands that NEVER existed before.
Regarding including public land in the CWMUs that is an easy fix and something we can learn from Utah’s mistakes. No public lands need to be included, they made a big mistake.
Regarding hunters being able to hunt that private ground in the past, LMAO, there may have been a few trespassers but that would certainly not be a fun hunt having a rancher shooting your arse with rick salt trying to jump the fence on his land you were trespassing upon. As I said earlier Utah made a mistake about the public lands but many of those ranches are contiguous parcels anyway which had little to none public access before, except for trespassers like yourself. As far as who is buying the tags, don’t know and don’t really care as it’s way outta my paying range but it’s not that residents don’t buy those tags, they just usually aren’t willing to pay for those sellable tags, they only want the freebie CWMU draw hunts. Your fallacious assertions are obvious and apparent. You just need some proper education on how there things can and do operate successfully. As far as who pays the State CWMU wildlife coordinator tag the fees the rich hunters pay for those tags more than covers the cost of his paltry salary. He is actually gaining revenue for you by properly managing the system. A win-win situation for the landowners and the tax payers and willing hunters.
 
"A huge amount of public hunting opportunity on private lands that NEVER existed before"

This statement shows how far your out of touch with reality and have no clue what your talking about.

"As far as who pays the State CWMU wildlife coordinator tag the fees the rich hunters pay for those tags more than covers the cost of his paltry salary."

What fee's do they pay the state other than the cost of the tag, same price as any other tag?
 
"A huge amount of public hunting opportunity on private lands that NEVER existed before"

This statement shows how far your out of touch with reality and have no clue what your talking about.

"As far as who pays the State CWMU wildlife coordinator tag the fees the rich hunters pay for those tags more than covers the cost of his paltry salary."

What fee's do they pay the state other than the cost of the tag, same price as any other tag?

Again your Delusion is apparent. The CWMUs have OPENED in hundreds of thousands of acres on mostly Private land where no opportunity existed before. Now hundreds of hunters can hunt Private lands which were inaccessible legally except by trespassers like yourself. Your statements show how Ignorant and Delusional you really are about the amount of private acreage now available for public sportsmen to hunt.
Regarding the State Wildlife coordinator he is a huge revenue Earner for the state and the taxpayers. Thousands of tags are now sold and made available for purchase that prior to the implementation of the CWMU were not available. Now landowners have a steady income stream along with outfitters and many public sportsmen get to hunt on previously inaccessible private lands. These tags result in hundreds of thousands of dollars and the youth only hunt programs provide for hundreds of young hunters to have a fully satisfying and rewarding hunt on previously inaccessible lands.
 
And you run multiple properties sucking away tags from the general Public only someone who would benefit financially Would be talking that garbage
 
Again your Delusion is apparent. The CWMUs have OPENED in hundreds of thousands of acres on mostly Private land where no opportunity existed before. Now hundreds of hunters can hunt Private lands which were inaccessible legally except by trespassers like yourself. Your statements show how Ignorant and Delusional you really are about the amount of private acreage now available for public sportsmen to hunt.
Regarding the State Wildlife coordinator he is a huge revenue Earner for the state and the taxpayers. Thousands of tags are now sold and made available for purchase that prior to the implementation of the CWMU were not available. Now landowners have a steady income stream along with outfitters and many public sportsmen get to hunt on previously inaccessible private lands. These tags result in hundreds of thousands of dollars and the youth only hunt programs provide for hundreds of young hunters to have a fully satisfying and rewarding hunt on previously inaccessible lands.

If you like Utah so much...move there, you and your dumb ideas wont be missed.

Wyoming Residents are not going to buy into some RFW scheme...
 
And you run multiple properties sucking away tags from the general Public only someone who would benefit financially Would be talking that garbage
Must be some Utard you are referring to (TB). Again.......You demonstrate your Ignorance. CWMUs increase greatly the amount of tags available with tens of thousands of tags which would NOT be available if it weren’t for the win-win program. Have you ever hunted Deseret or the Alton or Heaston.? Thousands of satisfied hunters have thanks to the CWMU program making available tags and generating hundreds of thousands of dollars and well paying jobs for guides and outfitters. Most importantly hundreds of youth hunters get to enjoy hunting on many of these great ranches they never could have ever done without the CWMU program.
 
Looks like somebody left the gate open at the funny farm
Well we know is what is truly sad is Delusional people like yourself are actually allowed to carry a weapon. Just looked at one of those large ranches in Box Elder county called Junction Valley. They offer 6 public CWMU tags and one youth CWMU tag besides the high dollar tags the state issues them. It is one of the largest and contains about 30,000 acres of lands. Of those about 2% are public and most are landlocked public so you ain’t fooling nobody. Your Delusion and Lies need you to seek professional help. This CWMU has provided hundreds of tags on mostly private lands a win-win for Utah hunters. https://dwrapps.utah.gov/huntboundary/hbstart?HN=DG1003
 
If you like Utah so much...move there, you and your dumb ideas wont be missed.

Wyoming Residents are not going to buy into some RFW scheme...
If you like Wyoming so much, why don’t you help out us public hunters and get us some access to these big private ranches and put some more money in the Wyoming Game and Fish departments pockets. Utah residents figured it out long ago, just a few old crusty fu-ks like yourself who need some educating. Allowing public access to private lands, getting the outfitters a decent sustainable income source and off public lands and putting more money in the Wyoming treasury coffers certainly couldn’t be a win-win situation for Wyoming. Nah!!!
 
TB....Why dont you post up the elk property's? Like the ones on the idaho/Nevada border? ALL the property In the unction valley property were accessible to alot more public hunters prior to CWMU's

For someone who claims to know it all.... your sadly mistaken,misinformed or just playing dumb

I will give you the same option I gave you a couple years ago....let's take a drive and you can teach me a lesson on how great our CWMU's are the amount of ground it has opened
 
TB....Why dont you post up the elk property's? Like the ones on the idaho/Nevada border? ALL the property In the unction valley property were accessible to alot more public hunters prior to CWMU's

For someone who claims to know it all.... your sadly mistaken,misinformed or just playing dumb

I will give you the same option I gave you a couple years ago....let's take a drive and you can teach me a lesson on how great our CWMU's are the amount of ground it has opened

Like I care to drive to Utah but even when I can debunk you’re nonsense as an unknown non resident knowing very little about Utah other than having friends who hunt there speaks volumes for your ineptness. Are you really that obtuse that you don’t see how the Junction Valley CWMU opened up over 30,000 acres to public hunters. Pretty sad when a nonresident has to school you and spoon feed you your baby manna and change your nappy diapers about all the increased hunting opportunities you have. If you’re still whining about the few parcels of mostly landlocked public lands then don’t whine here, go bring it up with your Utah DWR. I can assure you we wouldn’t make that mistake here in Wyoming. We actually have a similar program called Hunter Management Areas but any public lands which are accessible do not fall under the HMA rules. The area hunting rules apply. You even admit the Deseret, Alton and Heaston units have greatly benefitted public hunters. Now all you need to do is convince the hunting public and DWR to exclude any accessible public lands in your CWMUs and you could stop your whining. These CWMUs if managed properly and if set up properly with good management greatly benefit the public, benefit landowners and can benefit guides and outfitters. Making it a win-win situation for all.
 
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