Primer Problems

tailchasers

Long Time Member
Messages
3,801
Started working up a load for my son's 30/06 and had 2 primers pop out at the range with 1 extruded that fell out and could be put back in with ease. Some supporting information; twice reloaded Federal brass, 180 gr accubond, 56 grain IMR 4350, cci primers, load #1= .005 off lands, #2 = .010 off lands, #3 = .020 off lands. Everything else the same.

Have reloaded with this same charge for this rifle before other than change to length off the lands all's the same. Other difference was brass was tumbled for 3 hours vs over nite.

Would the distance from the lands cause this?

Shot 2 other rounds with a old load with longer distance off the lands with the primers looking the same as those pictured

New load.
IMG_20201004_121407218.jpg


Old load.
16018361888972088978758558895139.jpg
 
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RELH

Long Time Member
Messages
16,726
Your load is just .5 grains below max per Hodgdon. Unsure due to lack of information if that load may be excessive in your rifle.
The big difference is the distance from lands seating that could be the culprit. You failed to state which load, such as 5 thousands from lands, that had the primer issue.
Also failed to state if primers were easier then normal when you seated them during reloading session. If they were, your load may be expanding the primer pocket on previous firings.
What was the COL on the previous loads that did not show any problems prior to you starting to seat to different lengths from the lands.
You may need to back off a small amount on the powder to see if the problem stops. Also seating a bullet deeper in the case can also cause a safe max load to become excessive due to increased pressure.
The photos of the primers you showed do not show pressure signs, but using primers as a indication of excessive pressure is not very reliable at best.
RELH
 
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tailchasers

Long Time Member
Messages
3,801
Thanks for the insite. Case length was 2.490 give or take .002".

.010 from previous load.

I shot 3 rounds of each length with 1 in each series of 3 having a primer popping out.

Howa 1500 rifle.

Primers seated like they have previously.

Went back through and found the 3 that had a primer failure were also the same 3 that were trimmed to length. Toss em and try again?
 

RELH

Long Time Member
Messages
16,726
If the primer pocket is still tight when seating the primer, go ahead and load them, after inspecting for any other defects. Drop your powder charge by 2 gr. and seat to the length that had a primer failure. If they come out ok, too much powder may be your problem with that rifle.
What load may be safe in one rifle can be excessive pressure in another rifle due to chamber size and throat length.
Another thing, are you that sure your bullet ogive was not touching the lands. That can drive pressures up over 10,000-15,000 PSI. I would double check your COL for bullet seating off the lands distance.

RELH
 

Wyosam

Active Member
Messages
432
I’ve come across a few loads that seating depth has made a big pressure difference. I typically start 20 off the lands for Most bullets, and if I feel the need to load them longer, I usually back down the powder a bit, depending on how far below pressure signs I am with the original load. If the node is just below pressure, I wont change anything without backing off. I had one recently that made a big pressure jump moving back to 30 off from 20. That one was a little surprising since it wasn’t a full case, but it was also a top end load.

Moral of the story- ANY changes should be made with caution.
 

tailchasers

Long Time Member
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3,801
RELH, I have not double checked the ogive from the lands. Just took one measurement and moved on. I'll do that too on top of backing the charge off.
 

RELH

Long Time Member
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16,726
Tailchasers I forgot to mention that if your ogive is not touching the lands, being just 5 thousands off may be the culprit along with the amount of powder your are using.
I would seat the bullet 50 thousands off and go more or less to find the accurate load. Most are in the 30-50 thousand range from ogive to lands on average. Of course there is exceptions on some rifles. My 25-06 likes 20 thousand and my 300 Win. mag. likes 30 thousand for best accuracy with both using a max load that is 1 grain below max listed in hodgdon reloading data.
RELH
 

Cahunter805

Very Active Member
Messages
2,910
Did you change anything else from the previous load? Different powder lot? Different bullet lot?
If you did not change anything else I would probably trash the Federal brass and go with some new brass. Lapua makes great 06 brass and can usually withstand some pressure. If not I’d go Remington brass.
 

deadibob

Very Active Member
Messages
2,621
Federal brass is soft and notorious for primer pockets to enlarge earlier than other brands of brass. Lake City military brass is an exception to Federal and great brass.

If you could put the expended primer back in the primer pocket by hand then there's your answer. That would not be possible if the primer pocket was in spec.
 

Zeke

Long Time Member
Messages
9,274
It's not a primer issue. It's a pressure issue.
For whatever reason (some of which mentioned above) you're generating too much pressure!

Zeke
 

tailchasers

Long Time Member
Messages
3,801
I had the wrong length to the ogive. Not sure if I wrote it down wrong or what but my measurement was off and I didn't give enough attention to all the signs. I remembered the bolt closing a bit harder than I would expect but since I don't handle this rifle I presumed this was normal and maybe something with the brass. Took a bunch of new measurements, adjusted seating depth on a few rounds and got a quick 3/4 inch group at the range with no issues and the rifle cycles with ease. Appreciate all the insight.
 

RELH

Long Time Member
Messages
16,726
Tailchasers, thanks for getting back to us after correcting the problem, Helps all of us to learn. I am not going to tell you how I learned about double checking the ogive to lands distance about 20 years ago.
RELH
 

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