Quota proposals

There is a pile of people here 365 now...they see LESS people "in season". Our next real winter will kill them all on Interstate 50. I can't get out my drive way Thursday Friday they are all West Bound. SUNDAY afternoon/night East bound bumper to bumper...a real winter in the 2020's will be 100 times worse than 83/ 84. 70 times worse than 07/08...quit having kids!!! 7 billion to 8 billion in a decade is ENOUGH!!!!
 
Some of these units have significant increases for sure, 55 and 551 are among the highest in the state. Should help with point creep but the quality of the experience in the field might not be the best.
 
54 added 60 buck tags, once you take the 60/40 split it will add 24 tags to the non resident pool across 2nd, 3rd and 4th seasons. I still expect 54 2nd to take 5 points to guarantee a NR tag.

Rich
 
54 added 60 buck tags, once you take the 60/40 split it will add 24 tags to the non resident pool across 2nd, 3rd and 4th seasons. I still expect 54 2nd to take 5 points to guarantee a NR tag.

Rich
Like i said before. Pretty much like trying to predict the weather.
 
Hm probably not gonna be as much creep as its hyped up to be then im sure the very high end units will a little bit. That'll be it
 
Hm probably not gonna be as much creep as its hyped up to be then im sure the very high end units will a little bit. That'll be it
I still think creep will be significant, not many units increased buck tags and if they did they were not by a large amount.

What seems crazy is the very large increase in doe tags in many units, including the Gunnison and northwest. They are saying those units are over objective and they are going to start whacking does!
 
54 added 60 buck tags, once you take the 60/40 split it will add 24 tags to the non resident pool across 2nd, 3rd and 4th seasons. I still expect 54 2nd to take 5 points to guarantee a NR tag.

Rich
Unless I’m reading it wrong it looks like 54 added 90 antlered tags. 385 in 2020 to 475 in 2021.
 
Unless I’m reading it wrong it looks like 54 added 90 antlered tags. 385 in 2020 to 475 in 2021.
That's how I read it, 90 tags over 5 different seasons, so that is an average of 18 per season....I would think muzzle, archery and 2nd rifle to get more than 18 with 3rd and 4th less than 18.
 
That's how I read it, 90 tags over 5 different seasons, so that is an average of 18 per season....I would think muzzle, archery and 2nd rifle to get more than 18 with 3rd and 4th less than 18.
It shows 90 tags for limited rifle.It shows muzzleloader and archery separate.
 
I still think creep will be significant, not many units increased buck tags and if they did they were not by a large amount.

What seems crazy is the very large increase in doe tags in many units, including the Gunnison and northwest. They are saying those units are over objective and they are going to start whacking does!
cant be that significant with a pretty much no increase in apps. Yea the top tier units i think will jump some not much anywhere else. My opinion
 
cant be that significant with a pretty much no increase in apps. Yea the top tier units i think will jump some not much anywhere else. My opinion
Number of apps doesn’t create point creep. It’s what units those applications are used for. I put in one application last year with 18 points and didn’t draw. I put in one application this year with 19 points in a unit that needed 13 points. That’s how point creep happens.
 
Number of apps doesn’t create point creep. It’s what units those applications are used for. I put in one application last year with 18 points and didn’t draw. I put in one application this year with 19 points in a unit that needed 13 points. That’s how point creep happens.
Uhh yea more apps does create point creep. If you're the only one. Or one of just a few that applied with 19 points you created hardly any creep if 100 guys with 13 points applied thats allot more creep
 
cant be that significant with a pretty much no increase in apps. Yea the top tier units i think will jump some not much anywhere else. My opinion
My fear is that a lot of the guys that have been buying deer points only will decide to jump into the draw for a tag this year.
If so that would cause a rise in point creep. It could be fairly substantial depending on how many try to draw out this year.
 
My fear is that a lot of the guys that have been buying deer points only will decide to jump into the draw for a tag this year.
If so that would cause a rise in point creep. It could be fairly substantial depending on how many try to draw out this year.
Could be and prob will for a few units. But thats just my opinion
 
Uhh yea more apps does create point creep. If you're the only one. Or one of just a few that applied with 19 points you created hardly any creep if 100 guys with 13 points applied thats allot more creep
Everyone has to apply every year to get their points or draw a tag. If 20,000 extra people that never applied before applied this year they would be at the bottom of the pile.They wouldn’t creat point creep.
 
I dont think the are very many guys that have just been holding points and not applying but again just my opinion
 
If you could tell how many people chose just points from year to year that would make a difference.
 
Could be and prob will for a few units. But thats just my opinion
Man I do hope you’re right!!!

Here’s a horrifying statistic I dug up.
Please correct me if I’m making a mistake somewhere.

Last year in 2020 deer draw there were 21,838 non-resident 0 point applicants that applied for a tag and didn’t draw. They all now have one point each.
There were 11,742 non-residents with 0 points that applied for a preference point only and they all now also have one point.
So if my math is correct there are now 33,595 non-residents with 1 deer point that could be applying in the 2021 draw!
That’s adult and youth non-residents and doesn’t include private land applicants.
Who knows how many of them will just buy points or apply for tags?

The reason I used 1 point as an example is because I am one of those 33,595 non res with just 1
deer point this year.
 
I dont think the are very many guys that have just been holding points and not applying but again just my opinion
If you apply for points or tag aren’t they both counted as applications. I put in for a tag for mule deer and put in for just a point for elk. The preference point designation for elk was still an application I think.
 
I dont think the are very many guys that have just been holding points and not applying but again just my opinion
If you could tell how many people chose just points from year to year that would make a difference.
On the CPW website under big game hunting statistics click on the drawing recap reports and you can see it all right there.
If you want to see preference point only applicants scroll all the way to the bottom. It’s the last page
 
If you apply for points or tag aren’t they both counted as applications. I put in for a tag for mule deer and put in for just a point for elk. The preference point designation for elk was still an application I think.
I believe this to be correct, buying a point or putting in for an actual tag count as an application. I'm not sure if it means anything at all but I was just surprised to see only a 1% increase in deer applications while elk saw a 13.5% jump? I mean nobody was talking CO elk this year, all the hype was on deer.
 
I believe this to be correct, buying a point or putting in for an actual tag count as an application. I'm not sure if it means anything at all but I was just surprised to see only a 1% increase in deer applications while elk saw a 13.5% jump? I mean nobody was talking CO elk this year, all the hype was on deer.
The rise in elk applications may be because now we have to buy the small game license in order to apply and a lot of folks are probably just picking up an elk point also.
Or possibly also more applicants for Antlerless elk with the Covid frenzy about getting meat in the freezer and all.
 
Man I do hope you’re right!!!

Here’s a horrifying statistic I dug up.
Please correct me if I’m making a mistake somewhere.

Last year in 2020 deer draw there were 21,838 non-resident 0 point applicants that applied for a tag and didn’t draw. They all now have one point each.
There were 11,742 non-residents with 0 points that applied for a preference point only and they all now also have one point.
So if my math is correct there are now 33,595 non-residents with 1 deer point that could be applying in the 2021 draw!
That’s adult and youth non-residents and doesn’t include private land applicants.
Who knows how many of them will just buy points or apply for tags?

The reason I used 1 point as an example is because I am one of those 33,595 non res with just 1
deer point this year.
Buckhorn I see where you got your numbers. If you look at it 23,083 people applied with 0 points. 6420 drew tags. That leaves 16,663 with one point. At the bottom of the statistic page it shows how many of the 23,083 applied for points only. You don’t add them together.
 
I dont think the are very many guys that have just been holding points and not applying but again just my opinion
The leftover reissue system enabled many folks to do just that (me, guilty) for many years. With that now changed, I'm bringing a decade worth of points to the table for a unit less than half that.
 
Buckhorn I see where you got your numbers. If you look at it 23,083 people applied with 0 points. 6420 drew tags. That leaves 16,663 with one point. At the bottom of the statistic page it shows how many of the 23,083 applied for points only. You don’t add them together.
Yes I think you do add them together. The top page is for all the ones that applied for Hunt. The last page is separate people that applied for points only.
The combine number is the total applicants that now have one point.
Don’t forget to add the youth applicants in there also.
 
I skipped the youth applicants. I think the top of the statistics are all the applicants in each point group. Then everything underneath is where those points were allocated right down to preference point only. At the top of the page it says 406 people applied with 18 points. Only 18 drew a tag. It says 333 people with 18 points put in for preference point only. I haven’t checked this but I think only 73 people with 18 points applied for the tag and 18 got tags. The other 333 got preference points. Let me know if I’m wrong.
 
Yes I think you do add them together. The top page is for all the ones that applied for Hunt. The last page is separate people that applied for points only.
The combine number is the total applicants that now have one point.
Don’t forget to add the youth applicants in there also.
1619057109400.png

This data is 2020 for each PP-nonresidents. Blue total apps, Green Applicants(no DP99999P), Red PP only applicants.

Biggest takeaway is there's a pile of people that could decide they actually want a tag.

Here is percent of people(nonres) actually applying for tags:
1619057480989.png
 
Nice charts thanks for posting that.

It looks like other than the zero point category the preference points only group isn’t too far behind the hunt applications group.
It’s amazing the true reality of the situation when you start digging into it.
Makes me wonder why so many folks would be just buying points instead of wanting to go hunting?
 
Some guys apply for points all over and can only go on one hunt a year so they just apply for one tag. I know lots of guys in that boat who are balancing a small amount of vacation time with family time. There are a few crazies like me who hunt 5 or 6 hunts a year.

Rich
 
Everyone is in a big panic on the so called premier units that take a s... load of points to draw and are worried about some so called point creep.Most of those units are by far and away overrated and anyone that has waited for 10+ years to draw a deer tag in Colorado has to be out of their mind.I wanna see these so called monster bucks that have come from these units in the last few years. I wanna see pics,and I'm sure some guys are going to throw a few good bucks on here, but Just cuz you draw one of these so called trophy units doesn't mean you will find a 200'' buck period!!!But hey to each his own there are units that produce bomber bucks each and every year that you can draw pretty much under 5 points, just do your homework and put your time in or go guided with an outfitter that is producing good deer year end and year out and you would probably be able to get landowner vouchers from them and go every year.In the long run you would be money ahead and be able to go more than twice in a lifetime!!!!!!!!!It's a no brainer and if anyone burned a boat load of points in the last few years just to kill a half ass buck in one of these units please chime in.
 
Buckhorn and folks,

I crunched the numbers for unit 54 rifle deer with the new allocations, using the old allocation formula. I used the allocation formulas used last year for 54 2nd, 3rd and 4th to determine where the extra tags will go. As I have said in other posts, they didn't follow the exact allocations last year when they added tags to 66/67. But for sake of argument, here is what it would like like if they added the tags the exact same way as they allocated before. This is changing the quotas from 385 to 475. Remember that it isn't a straight 60/40 split, sometimes there are youth tags and up to 15 percent landowners. I used the percentage of tags of the hunt, divided up as it was last year to adult hunters, resident and non resident.

54 2nd: (last year 54/26 %)
Last years quota: 325 tags: Residents 176/NR 86
This year estimate: 401 tags: Residents 217/NR 105

54 3rd: (last year 48/28 %)
Last years quota: 50 tags: 24 Residents/NR 14
This years estimate: 62 tags: 30 Residents/NR 17

54 4th: (last year 60/20 %)
Last years quota: 10 tags: 6 Residents/NR 2
This years estimate: 12 tags: 7 Residents/NR 3
(this could easily go 8/2 with two vouchers)

So there will be 19 more 2nd season NR tags, 3 more 3rd season NR tags and maybe 1 more 4th season tag.

To help understand the numbers, last year there were 325 tags for 2nd season, they were divided up as follows so you get the 54% resident and 26 % non resident allocation.

176 to residents
86 to non residents
16 to youth hunters
47 to landowners

Rich
 
Nice charts thanks for posting that.

It looks like other than the zero point category the preference points only group isn’t too far behind the hunt applications group.
It’s amazing the true reality of the situation when you start digging into it.
Makes me wonder why so many folks would be just buying points instead of wanting to go hunting?
I believe there are a lot of people out there who’ve been buying points for years because it was cheap. I bought points for both my boys and my wife used to buy points. I’m not sure if any of the 3 of them will ever use the deer points.

In addition to folks like my wife and kids who I bought points for who may never have much interest in hunting Colorado deer even though I’d pay for the trip and know where to go, there are a bunch of people who’ve been buying points for years who have no idea where to go, or even the time, money or real desire.

The Huntin’ Fools, Epic, and others of the world have been driving it home over and over for people to buy points for everything, everywhere. Many have done that, but even with a boatload of points, if a person doesn’t have the gear, know how, time, money or desire to actually draw a tag and go, they’ll never burn the points.

Obviously not everyone is like that, but I believe there’s a good chunk of point holders like that.

Buying points each year in the past has been cheap and easy, but actually going hunting is expensive, takes lots of time, gear, effort and it can be intimidating if you’re not experienced in an area.

Just my thoughts on some of the folks who sit on lots of points. Even with the seasons late, many of them will still just buy a point. We’ll have to see numbers after the draw.
 
I believe there are a lot of people out there who’ve been buying points for years because it was cheap. I bought points for both my boys and my wife used to buy points. I’m not sure if any of the 3 of them will ever use the deer points.

In addition to folks like my wife and kids who I bought points for who may never have much interest in hunting Colorado deer even though I’d pay for the trip and know where to go, there are a bunch of people who’ve been buying points for years who have no idea where to go, or even the time, money or real desire.

The Huntin’ Fools, Epic, and others of the world have been driving it home over and over for people to buy points for everything, everywhere. Many have done that, but even with a boatload of points, if a person doesn’t have the gear, know how, time, money or desire to actually draw a tag and go, they’ll never burn the points.

Obviously not everyone is like that, but I believe there’s a good chunk of point holders like that.

Buying points each year in the past has been cheap and easy, but actually going hunting is expensive, takes lots of time, gear, effort and it can be intimidating if you’re not experienced in an area.

Just my thoughts on some of the folks who sit on lots of points. Even with the seasons late, many of them will still just buy a point. We’ll have to see numbers after the draw.
I hope your right!
 
The waiting part is what kills me.

It’s like my life,liberty and pursuit of happiness hangs on the draw results!

And so far I’ve only applied in Utah and Colorado.
I still have Nevada, Arizona and Idaho and I’m already a wreck!
 
Buckhorn, I feel your pain, ha ha I have applied in Utah, Colorado, Nevada and waiting for the results of these states before I Apply for Wyoming. Have 12 pts for deer there and have no idea what to do with them. If I draw any of the other states i will apply for a bonus point only for wyoming.
 
Buckhorn, I feel your pain, ha ha I have applied in Utah, Colorado, Nevada and waiting for the results of these states before I Apply for Wyoming. Have 12 pts for deer there and have no idea what to do with them. If I draw any of the other states i will apply for a bonus point only for wyoming.
I used to hunt a place in region H and did pretty good years ago. I stopped hunting there when Wyoming started the point system. I bet it still has some good bucks in there!
 
There is a big reduction in deer antlered licenses for the NW units 3,4,5,301, etc. from 3842 to 2891, but an increase in the PLO and antlerless tags. This has me worried about drawing a NR tag this year. We have plans made as we were confident drawing with 1 PP. Could be a problem.
 
There is a big reduction in deer antlered licenses for the NW units 3,4,5,301, etc. from 3842 to 2891, but an increase in the PLO and antlerless tags. This has me worried about drawing a NR tag this year. We have plans made as we were confident drawing with 1 PP. Could be a problem.
Sure would be nice to get this info before the draw deadline.
 
I agree with Founder's comments,

Age and health is also a huge factor. How many NR with 18+ points have had "delusions of grandeur" buying points year after year. Many apply yearly in other states, and have drawn in other states during this time frame. Not wanting to loose ground they simply requested a point for some imaginary date. Many NR, have a focus on other species only adding a deer tag because it made sense to them while applying for Elk, Moose, or Sheep tags or points.

If they were in their 30's when they started, they are now in their 50's. How has everyone's health or their finances held up during this 18-20 year period? Its expensive to put together a out of state hunt together. If a NR owns a deer lease, hunt camp back home, that may have become more important to them. With limited funds, he must convince himself that a Colorado deer hunt is a priority. Hunting with family (grandkids now old enough) may make more sense to him THIS year. Yet come application time, they keep asking for another PP for both deer and Elk. Many have had a health scare or event in that 18-20 year period. They are hopeful that they will get back in shape at some point. Almost like holding on to "skinny clothes" hoping they will miraculously fit them once again. In the meantime, they accumulate one more PP.

My guess is a large percentage of these NR with high point totals will never reach the finish line.

LaGriz
 

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