Rangefinder Ban.....It's time

hossblur

Long Time Member
Messages
5,273
Are deer numbers down? Yeah. Is quality down? Yeah. Is it because of hunting? No. Half the guys out there couldn’t kill a deer if it got in the truck with them.

I do recall back to back massive winters in 2015 and 2016 🤔 90 something percent fawn mortality those years. And man I sure have been seeing a lot of bears and cats in places I’ve never seen them before...

Fawns grow up too you know. No fawns, no deer 🤗


Better get that auto aimer with gps guided bullets to hunt them then, tech isn't an issue after all
 

hossblur

Long Time Member
Messages
5,273
Let's keep making a million laws because the million that we already have are doing a crappy job of solving our problems. ----SS


Or we could just not have limits and hurry and kill everything. That worked pretty good the last time we tried it.

I mean we did get down to a handful of bison, a few dozen elk, almost no deer, no goats, no sheep, no moose.

But, there were real cool pics of mRNA if bison skulls, so......there was that
 

Bux n Dux

Member
Messages
36
I suppose this is one of the very rare occasions when SFW having all the power and pulling the strings behind the scenes, comes in handy. I’m almost certain they will oppose this (if indeed real) and fight it. So… there is that.

end of the day, if you want to blame anything, point the finger at the division and their failure to manage wildlife properly. You’d think after 50+ years of doing this, they might have it figured out. But it’s very apparent they don’t. Neither do any of the other western states.
 

hossblur

Long Time Member
Messages
5,273
So when you ban rangefinders, what’s next ?


I wouldn't single out range finders to start with. It would be all electronic(for lack of a better word) aiming, ranging, firing mechanisms.

Reality is, the future isn't range finding. The military is already testing guns that the shooter doesn't aim. Gps guided bullets, etc, etc, etc.

And before you laugh, if you'd told my dad, who has been dead 20 yrs that we would have to deal with night vision, FLIR, Ballistic computers, etc, he would have checked your drink.

And let's not pretend that in the age of the IG hunting superstar, that guys will limit themselves
 

roadrunner

Very Active Member
Messages
2,628
So when you ban rangefinders, what’s next ?
Scopes first and then free floated barrels. When all said and done only open sight single shot breach loading rifles with less than precision made ammo will be allowed. Success rates will plummet giving cause to introduce wolves and grizz for better population management.

This because the surge in a fleet of all electric cars that will be up on an animal before they even know it causing more collisions.

Small trade off with tech just so you can have a tag in your pocket more often, but only until the introduction of the other two predators get things in check.

Fortunately this only applies in UT because everyone else don't see rangefinders as being much of a threat to population management objectives...
 

LIK2HNT

Very Active Member
Messages
1,003
Sorry, I only read the first page so if this was brought up I apologize.
Rangefinders only allow us to be more accurate and deliver a humane kill. You still have to find the animal. I find it interesting that no one brings up the large guided posses. A lot of the top tier animals are killed by people that don’t hunt, but actually only shot the animal. Someone else does the hunting. High dollar finder fees also fit this category.
 

roadrunner

Very Active Member
Messages
2,628
Sorry, I only read the first page so if this was brought up I apologize.
Rangefinders only allow us to be more accurate and deliver a humane kill. You still have to find the animal.

Been brought up in a round about way. The thread owner won't hear of it though because they are dead set their opinion is law.

Started the thread to campaign against them and most of us have been suckered into discussing it...
 

Cooper

Very Active Member
Messages
1,344
Been brought up in a round about way. The thread owner won't hear of it though because they are dead set their opinion is law.

Started the thread to campaign against them and most of us have been suckered into discussing it...
I actually think the thread owner started this thread to stir the pot and do a little trolling, he and his sidekick have yet to provide a single fact just a ton of exaggerated here say
 

hossblur

Long Time Member
Messages
5,273
"Small trade off with tech just so you can have a tag in your pocket more often, but only until the introduction of the other two predators get things in check."



I know as a hunter, I'd rather NOT have a tag in my pocket. I mean it's way more important that I can shoot a deer at 3/4 mile every 5 or 6 years, than have a tag yearly.

Those other 5years, I'll take my range finder to the golf course, maybe Sitka can come out with a golf clothes🙄
 

elkhuntn247

Active Member
Messages
536
"Small trade off with tech just so you can have a tag in your pocket more often, but only until the introduction of the other two predators get things in check."



I know as a hunter, I'd rather NOT have a tag in my pocket. I mean it's way more important that I can shoot a deer at 3/4 mile every 5 or 6 years, than have a tag yearly.

Those other 5years, I'll take my range finder to the golf course, maybe Sitka can come out with a golf clothes🙄
So let me get this straight… we have a deer problem that’s the hunters fault? But if we get rid of range finders it will fix it? But nobody needs a range finder to kill a deer anyway? So we are still gonna kill as many deer?

Id rather not have a tag every year. I probably wouldn’t even notice. See I’m not dependent on one state to give me a tag, Utah is pretty far back on the list to boot 😂

Personally I would rather see massive tag cuts.

4 point or better antler restrictions. For anyone over the age of 18.

heavy predator control.
 

Elkslayer2015

Active Member
Messages
334
So let me get this straight… we have a deer problem that’s the hunters fault? But if we get rid of range finders it will fix it? But nobody needs a range finder to kill a deer anyway? So we are still gonna kill as many deer?

Id rather not have a tag every year. I probably wouldn’t even notice. See I’m not dependent on one state to give me a tag, Utah is pretty far back on the list to boot 😂

Personally I would rather see massive tag cuts.

4 point or better antler restrictions. For anyone over the age of 18.

heavy predator control.
Personally I would rather see massive tag cuts.

NO we don't want that at all right now where in a drought and we don't have the feed for the deer we have now there is just no nutrients in the feed.

It would be devastating for our herd.
 

elkhuntn247

Active Member
Messages
536
Personally I would rather see massive tag cuts.

NO we don't want that at all right now where in a drought and we don't have the feed for the deer we have now there is just no nutrients in the feed.

It would be devastating for our herd.
What I’m taking from this is you want to kill more deer cause we don’t have feed?

if you ask hoss, we already have no deer. So we should be set.
 

roadrunner

Very Active Member
Messages
2,628
"Small trade off with tech just so you can have a tag in your pocket more often, but only until the introduction of the other two predators get things in check."

That was in reference to another desire. The logic there is with fewer animals killed every year with the reduction of tech advantage, more tags will be issued allowing you to hunt more.

That is incorrect logic...
 

HikeHunt61

Member
Messages
61
That was in reference to another desire. The logic there is with fewer animals killed every year with the reduction of tech advantage, more tags will be issued allowing you to hunt more.

That is incorrect logic...
Indeed. The more logical result of a range finder ban is that those who take risky shots will continue to do so without their tech, and will injure more animals. Of course, they injure one, cant find it, and then continue hunting to injure or kill another. Nobody is going to "quit hunting" because range finders are banned. So the result will be the opposite of what the OP is hoping for. Simple math...
 

elkhuntn247

Active Member
Messages
536
Indeed. The more logical result of a range finder ban is that those who take risky shots will continue to do so without their tech, and will injure more animals. Of course, they injure one, cant find it, and then continue hunting to injure or kill another. Nobody is going to "quit hunting" because range finders are banned. So the result will be the opposite of what the OP is hoping for. Simple math...
Bingo.

a range finder ban will bring an even more negative impact.
 

Hawkeye

Very Active Member
Messages
2,696
All of these technology threads (trail cameras, range finders, muzzy scopes, e-bikes, etc.) provide good drama and some interesting reading. My personal view is that as technology continues to develop and our herds continue to decline, we should take proactive steps to limit certain types of technology to increase the level of difficulty and reduce our effectiveness as hunters. I personally believe that doing so would allow more animals to survive, particularly mature, trophy animals which are often targeted with these technological advances. I would rather hunt more often with lower success rates than hunt once every 5-10 years with very high success rates. That is my personal opinion but I understand that others may disagree. Those of you that object to limiting technology, what is your solution to the decreasing deer herds and the increasing effectiveness and lethality of hunters?

Hawkeye
 

HikeHunt61

Member
Messages
61
Hawkeye- I'm with you to a degree. I think technology should be limited for hunting, but it must be done before the cat is out of the bag. Range finders have been available for 25 years. That's the entire adult life for 50% of hunters. So if a new technology comes out, that's the time to limit it. Before hunters become ingrained with it. As far as increasing effectiveness- maybe, but I've seen no data that says elk or deer success rates are statistically better than 25 years ago. Not saying it is or isn't- but I've seen nothing saying either way.
 

Bux n Dux

Member
Messages
36
-Elimination of OTC general tags didn’t work.
-Region by region management didn’t work.
-Pulling the muzzy season out of the rut didn’t work.
-unit by unit management didn’t work.
-tag cuts didn’t work.
-more tag cuts didn’t work.
-shorter seasons didn’t work.
-harder predator management didn’t work.
-coyote bounty didn’t work.
-habitat improvement didn’t work.
-fencing along the Highway and freeway didn’t work.

but eliminating range finders will be the saving move? 🤔
 

roadrunner

Very Active Member
Messages
2,628
All of these technology threads (trail cameras, range finders, muzzy scopes, e-bikes, etc.) provide good drama and some interesting reading. My personal view is that as technology continues to develop and our herds continue to decline, we should take proactive steps to limit certain types of technology to increase the level of difficulty and reduce our effectiveness as hunters. I personally believe that doing so would allow more animals to survive, particularly mature, trophy animals which are often targeted with these technological advances. I would rather hunt more often with lower success rates than hunt once every 5-10 years with very high success rates. That is my personal opinion but I understand that others may disagree. Those of you that object to limiting technology, what is your solution to the decreasing deer herds and the increasing effectiveness and lethality of hunters?

Hawkeye
So...what happens when people hone hunting and "woodsmenship" skills and become effective hunters at close range without tech?
 

notdonhunting

Very Active Member
Messages
1,111
bux n due
I agree with you 100 percent
I am still a believer 80+ percent of the problems with the deer herds is habitat, habitat, habitat.
I will agree we have all saw habitat projects done for the benefit for deer and very little success has became of that project. My problem is too many times the habitat improvements was done in area that very few deer utilize.
We need to be doing improvements on the hillside or flats that the deer are using not where we believe they should be.
Second thing needs to be done is sell more tags. Someone on MM recently posted an idea you can only kill one buck every three years. What a great idea sell a hunting permit that is good for three years but it only has one detachable tag, once you use that tag you are done hinting until your three years is up. It is a win, win situation the DWR gets there money, the hunters get the opportunity to hunt and the deer hopefully have a better chance of survival.
Sorry for maybe changing the argument.
Just my 2 cents
 

elkhuntn247

Active Member
Messages
536
So...what happens when people hone hunting and "woodsmenship" skills and become effective hunters at close range without tech?
Then we will just have to ban hunting all together 😂
I think people have such tunnel vision when it comes to this. They only see the animals on the back end. Our mature animals, that get culled from the herd. If the fawns on the front end have a low survival rate, then we see a void on the back end, where the resource did not renew itself.

so in my opinion if we try to tackle a declining deer herd from the back end it will not fix the problem.

do I know a fix for our herd? No. So many factors come into play with what adds to, and takes away from sustaining a steady renewing resource.
 

Huntaholic

Member
Messages
13
Worked for years before technology came into play. What's wrong DB you afraid to have to hunt a little? Put the hunt back in hunting. Get rid of rangefinders, turrets, and reticles. No downside.
Ya know, theres a somewhat old saying that has came about due to internet posts like this, its "don't feed the trolls". With that said, I aint ever went on a troll hunt! I don't know you, and you don't know me, but just for shits and giggles, Id love to be able to turn us both loose on ever how many acres or sections as you like and lets just see who can tap who on the back without the other one ever knowing we were there. That's the true definition of as you say "put the hunt back into hunting". No optics, no thermal, no NV, just whatever camo you've already got and that zit between your shoulders.
 

elkhuntn247

Active Member
Messages
536
Here is an example of a resource at risk of not renewing. I get bears need to eat too. But if you knew where this camera was you’d be very surprised to see a bear on it. I get many different bears on camera at this location. Very few bear tags are given in this unit. The bear popular across the unit has been on the rise for years now with no increase in permits.

B21CDD3A-13E9-46C3-853E-E3FEA1E434B5.jpeg


F9250B66-B8D6-4F69-90F4-5A527E30F917.jpeg
 

SS!

Very Active Member
Messages
2,476
Here is an example of a resource at risk of not renewing. I get bears need to eat too. But if you knew where this camera was you’d be very surprised to see a bear on it. I get many different bears on camera at this location. Very few bear tags are given in this unit. The bear popular across the unit has been on the rise for years now with no increase in permits.

View attachment 42832

View attachment 42833
Are you made because that bear is popular and you never were?
 

MilliGun

Member
Messages
91
This topic is been weighing on me and I think to solve it we could do away with most all items here and make the law state “rim fire only”?

no centerfire!

yes you might get a few wounded ones, but it will limit shots to 300 or less.
with magazine round count limited to 5.

I have only seen one deer fall to rimfire round over 300 yards. The rest were all 50 yards or less.
We won’t need to ban rangefinders,scopes,this or that just do one. “ Centerfire.”

Rimfire are very efficient I have seen most North American animals fall to them

Think outside the box guys.
 

hossblur

Long Time Member
Messages
5,273
There it is. If you wait long enough the truth gets exposed. Your concern isn't with the deer herd health in Utah. You will virtue signal that your fine not having a tag every year while making sure you have a tag every year.

Then blindly pretending that the tech you have today, won't improve, won't be better, and won't become more widespread.

There is ZERO positive that comes from NOT HUNTING.

When we lost 160,000 hunters years ago, the DWR lost 160,000 licenses and the income from them. Giving us $fw pimping tags to fill the void.

We lost 160,000 voters who lost interest and connection to hunting, which will start hitting us as we are infiltrated by Cali residents.

Tristate has a stupid idea that you should ONLY sell as many tags as you want dead deer. Guys like yourself basically agree with him.

The reality is we NEED just the opposite. We NEED to sell a ton of tags, not because of "DWR greed", but because good work costs money.

We NEED to sell the vast majority of those tags to the folks with the worst odds of success. Meaning Archery.

We NEED to make muzzleloaders the same as Idaho and Colorado, meaning primitive, and give more tags there.

Finally, rifle tags if not LE across the board, should have few tags, and should be limited to ELECTRONIC FREE. And, 4point or better.

The answer IS NOT just go to Wyoming or Idaho. In case you haven't noticed, both those states HAVE noticed a lot of Utah Plates, and are growing tired of it.
 

Bluehair

Long Time Member
Messages
3,100
This topic is been weighing on me and I think to solve it we could do away with most all items here and make the law state “rim fire only”?

no centerfire!

yes you might get a few wounded ones, but it will limit shots to 300 or less.
with magazine round count limited to 5.

I have only seen one deer fall to rimfire round over 300 yards. The rest were all 50 yards or less.
We won’t need to ban rangefinders,scopes,this or that just do one. “ Centerfire.”

Rimfire are very efficient I have seen most North American animals fall to them

Think outside the box guys.
I think this is a terrible idea.
 

Founder

Founder Since 1999
Messages
10,388
-Elimination of OTC general tags didn’t work.
-Region by region management didn’t work.
-Pulling the muzzy season out of the rut didn’t work.
-unit by unit management didn’t work.
-tag cuts didn’t work.
-more tag cuts didn’t work.
-shorter seasons didn’t work.
-harder predator management didn’t work.
-coyote bounty didn’t work.
-habitat improvement didn’t work.
-fencing along the Highway and freeway didn’t work.

but eliminating range finders will be the saving move? 🤔
I disagree. Just because deer numbers didn’t increase doesn’t mean past measures haven’t worked. Without the measures you list, we may have far fewer deer and far fewer older bucks.

Everyone is looking for the silver bullet that is going to result in more deer and more big bucks. There isn’t one and we need to preserve what we have as best we can.

That’s my opinion.
 

Cooper

Very Active Member
Messages
1,344
There it is. If you wait long enough the truth gets exposed. Your concern isn't with the deer herd health in Utah. You will virtue signal that your fine not having a tag every year while making sure you have a tag every year.

Then blindly pretending that the tech you have today, won't improve, won't be better, and won't become more widespread.

There is ZERO positive that comes from NOT HUNTING.

When we lost 160,000 hunters years ago, the DWR lost 160,000 licenses and the income from them. Giving us $fw pimping tags to fill the void.

We lost 160,000 voters who lost interest and connection to hunting, which will start hitting us as we are infiltrated by Cali residents.

Tristate has a stupid idea that you should ONLY sell as many tags as you want dead deer. Guys like yourself basically agree with him.

The reality is we NEED just the opposite. We NEED to sell a ton of tags, not because of "DWR greed", but because good work costs money.

We NEED to sell the vast majority of those tags to the folks with the worst odds of success. Meaning Archery.

We NEED to make muzzleloaders the same as Idaho and Colorado, meaning primitive, and give more tags there.

Finally, rifle tags if not LE across the board, should have few tags, and should be limited to ELECTRONIC FREE. And, 4point or better.

The answer IS NOT just go to Wyoming or Idaho. In case you haven't noticed, both those states HAVE noticed a lot of Utah Plates, and are growing tired of it.
Yet your idea is to ban rangefinders? Smh
 

Vanilla

Very Active Member
Messages
2,208
I chimed in a while back.

I'm still waiting for a single guy to explain why he NEEDS a rangefinder to shoot a deer.

Lots of stupid banter. Lots of blah, blah, blah.

Not a single guy has stepped up to tell us he can't shoot without a computer telling him how.

If your dependent on rangefinders and ballistic calculators, and it's not a big deal, why not publically celebrate it.?

I use a range finder every time I hunt these days, and I hunt mostly with with a rifle. Why? I want to know how far the animal is so I can shoot accurately. I think I owe the animal that. I’m not a long range shooter. The longest shot I’ve taken at an animal in 26 or so years is 327 yards. (There might have been one longer when I was a teenager and didn’t have a range finder. Ended as a wounded animal I gut shot and never recovered...it’s haunted me ever since.) I doubt I’d pull the trigger much beyond 400 yards under any circumstances. I still like to know the distance even at shorter ranges so I can quickly end it when the time comes. The bullet drop between 300 and 400 yards is pretty significant, just as an example. And I’ll admit I would struggle to guess the distance under some conditions.

*Edit- I don’t do ballistic calculators. I just find the distance, and know what I’m doing at that point with the bullet I’m shooting.
 
Last edited:

Bux n Dux

Member
Messages
36
This topic is been weighing on me and I think to solve it we could do away with most all items here and make the law state “rim fire only”?

no centerfire!

yes you might get a few wounded ones, but it will limit shots to 300 or less.
with magazine round count limited to 5.

I have only seen one deer fall to rimfire round over 300 yards. The rest were all 50 yards or less.
We won’t need to ban rangefinders,scopes,this or that just do one. “ Centerfire.”

Rimfire are very efficient I have seen most North American animals fall to them

Think outside the box guys.
Holy hell. This guy right here is why everyone hates hunters. I can’t think of anywhere that would allow a hunter to use a rim fire on a big game hunt
 

elkassassin

Long Time Member
Messages
26,526
Niller?

You Own a RangeFinder?



I use a range finder every time I hunt these days, and I hunt mostly with with a rifle. Why? I want to know how far the animal is so I can shoot accurately. I think I owe the animal that. I’m not a long range shooter. The longest shot I’ve taken at an animal in 26 or so years is 327 yards. (There might have been one longer when I was a teenager and didn’t have a range finder. Ended as a wounded animal I gut shot and never recovered...it’s haunted me ever since.) I doubt I’d pull the trigger much beyond 400 yards under any circumstances. I still like to know the distance even at shorter ranges so I can quickly end it when the time comes. The bullet drop between 300 and 400 yards is pretty significant, just as an example. And I’ll admit I would struggle to guess the distance under some conditions.

*Edit- I don’t do ballistic calculators. I just find the distance, and know what I’m doing at that point with the bullet I’m shooting.
 

SS!

Very Active Member
Messages
2,476
I use a range finder every time I hunt these days, and I hunt mostly with with a rifle. Why? I want to know how far the animal is so I can shoot accurately. I think I owe the animal that. I’m not a long range shooter. The longest shot I’ve taken at an animal in 26 or so years is 327 yards. (There might have been one longer when I was a teenager and didn’t have a range finder. Ended as a wounded animal I gut shot and never recovered...it’s haunted me ever since.) I doubt I’d pull the trigger much beyond 400 yards under any circumstances. I still like to know the distance even at shorter ranges so I can quickly end it when the time comes. The bullet drop between 300 and 400 yards is pretty significant, just as an example. And I’ll admit I would struggle to guess the distance under some conditions.

*Edit- I don’t do ballistic calculators. I just find the distance, and know what I’m doing at that point with the bullet I’m shooting.
327 is long range for most hunters
 

BillyBoB

Active Member
Messages
835
I chimed in a while back.

I'm still waiting for a single guy to explain why he NEEDS a rangefinder to shoot a deer.

Lots of stupid banter. Lots of blah, blah, blah.

Not a single guy has stepped up to tell us he can't shoot without a computer telling him how.

If your dependent on rangefinders and ballistic calculators, and it's not a big deal, why not publically celebrate it.?
Because I owe it to the animal to make a good decision if I can make an ethical shot. Some of us are horrible at eye ball guessing yardages and depth and distance perception. Terrain changes can be deceiving, etc.
I don’t know why anyone should need to explain this as it is common sense.
I’ve played the ol’ guess the distance game in the field and the majority of the time, I’m quite surprised how wrong I am.
If we are gonna try to fill some tags, on animals we claim to care about, let’s do it at least ethically. Proficiency is another topic.
Are there other ways to determine distance? Absolutely. But learning the distance in a little shorter time period and knowing the exact distance hasn’t helped me kill more animals. Yet I am strict on policing myself and a selective harvester.
I pack a rangefinder while hunting and it hasn’t given me much of an advantage. Maybe I just suck at hunting or just can’t close the deal on the rare mule deer that strikes my fancy.
Should something be banned because it is not needed but helps be ethical?
 
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roadrunner

Very Active Member
Messages
2,628
I chimed in a while back.

I'm still waiting for a single guy to explain why he NEEDS a rangefinder to shoot a deer.

Lots of stupid banter. Lots of blah, blah, blah.

Not a single guy has stepped up to tell us he can't shoot without a computer telling him how.

If your dependent on rangefinders and ballistic calculators, and it's not a big deal, why not publically celebrate it.?

So I don't miss. Not a single person out there can tell the difference between 275 yds and 325 when you have zero reference to surrounding objects like trees or rocks. Anyone who says they can is less than honest.

Hope that wasn't some blah, blah, blah.

I can do the trajectory calcs by hand for bullet drop, a computer program is faster and I have better things to do than undergrad level physics homework, or, just don't want to waste money on ammo doing it trial and error - that's what engineers do...

My answer to rangefinders and ballistic calculators is 🥳🥳🥳🎂🧁
 

Bux n Dux

Member
Messages
36
I’ll either use a range finder and kill it in a shot or two. OR I’ll take a guess, run it dry, then start single feeding them and track it down. One has a much higher probability of wounding and losing the animal. I’ll do what’s in MY power of legal options. But I’m not, not gonna try if I know it’s in range of my weapons power. Call it unethical or whatever you want. But if it’s illegal to use technology, I’ll do what’s still legal as my hunting methods. Winging Bullets is legal. And there’ll be a whole army of orange every year with the same mentality.
 

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