Rangefinders, do we really need them

Phantom Hunter · Aug 17, 2004

Was looking at rangefinders and noticed most do not give accurate ranges on deer (non-reflective target) at distances over 300 yards. My question is, why do we need a rangefinder to shoot at a deer at under 300 yards with a modern rifle cartridge? If you have sighted in properly and practiced at the range you should be able to make a lethal hit on a deer out to 3oo yards. What do ya'll think??

Phantom Hunter

DallanC · Aug 17, 2004

No, the pointblank range on most modern cartridges is 300-350yards depending on caliber.

Not only that, most scope subtends are actually created to correctly range a deer out to 300 yards... I can tell a how far a way a deer is using just that.

Now its a whole other story for those who hunt with ML's or Bows.

-DallanC

kingfish · Aug 17, 2004

Point blank range is based on how high you want to be at 100 yards...If your dead on at 100 yards your rifle will not shoot out to 300 yards unless you guess!!. I don't understand your statement. I don't understand your statement about scopes either....My scope is only as good as I adjust it to be...based on how far I want to shoot.

To answer the question about range finders?. NO.

400bull · Aug 17, 2004

Do we realy need range finders to be able to harvest a deer out to 300 yards? No, you do not need a range finder to havervest a der at that range. Having said that they are a great tool have and us. I bought one about threes yeares ago and was completly amazed at how far off I was when guessing ranges beound 200 yards. Just the type of tarain you are in can effect how far off you are when guessing the distance.

I have started using mine more in the off season then I do for hunting. It has been great practice whill out scouting. Any time I find a deer or elk I'll first guess the distance and then range the animal to see how close I was. When I first started this I veryseldom got things right. Now that I have been doing to for a while I have noticed my margen of error has drop.

400bull

MartinHunter · Aug 17, 2004

I use mine to mark ranges while on the stand archery hunting. Damn, I wish I could find it, lol. I have everything I need and more ready, but I can't find it and i just got it last year, lol.

Michael

DallanC · Aug 17, 2004

>Point blank range is based on
>how high you want to
>be at 100 yards...If your
>dead on at 100 yards
>your rifle will not shoot
>out to 300 yards unless
>you guess!!.

Hi!

I am the author of one of the most popular Graphical Ballistics Programs available on the internet. I'm not sure what our total user base is but looking over download logs, I'd guesstimate it at over 500,000 users. Its also 100% freeware which makes it extremely popular when other packages run $30-70 that do the same thing.

Ironically, the name of my program is indeed PointBlank. Unfortunately due to the rules here of MM and at the direct request of Founder, I cant link it, but a very minor search of the internet should turn up results for it.

Your definition of "pointblank" is incorrect. Its defined to be the max range you can aim dead center without elevation corrections to hit a target of a specific size. My software has the ability to calculate this for you and show the trajectory.

For example lets say you have a kill zone of 8". Based on the type of bullet you shoot (its BC), velocity etc, your rifle has a unique trajectory. The max PointBlank range for that rifle would be one where at max height of the trajectory is 4", and the lowest point of the trajectory reaches -4". That distance would be your PointBlank range. Computing this range via my software would tell you exactly how high you would have to be at 100 yards to match the PBR. Its extremely useful.

>I don't understand
>your statement about scopes either....My
>scope is only as good
>as I adjust it to
>be...based on how far I
>want to shoot.

Depends on your scope. Better scopes do not have arbitrary subtends. They are PRECISELY calculated and when used correctly it will indeed show you ranges. Its always amazing to me how little people understand about this stuff.

Look no offense to Founder or the other admins of this site, I follow the rules as they laid out. I'd love to be able to give you a link my website, the software itself (its free) or even the FAQ's I've written to describe all of this stuff... its not voodoo, magic or anything else. If you want the info a few quick searches will turn up alot of details I think you really should check into... there is more going on with scopes than you realize.

-DallanC

kingfish · Aug 18, 2004

Dallen C, Thanks for clearing that up for me....

dutch · Aug 18, 2004

dallanc,
not to be rude but if your the author of one of the most popular Graphical Ballistics Programs available on the internet than shouldn't you know enough on whether you need a range finder or not? Personally, I don't use them and I don't need one.

DallanC · Aug 18, 2004

>dallanc,
>not to be rude but if
>your the author of one
>of the most popular Graphical
>Ballistics Programs available on the
>internet than shouldn't you know
>enough on whether you need
>a range finder or not?

Ummm Yes. Thats why I posted just that in my first reply. For most standard modern calibers its not needed. For archery or MuzzleLoading they are invaluable. I ML hunt 90% of the time and for that, I find my rangefinder invaluable. For rifle hunting I do not use it, rather relying on my scopes subtend to quickly determine if the target is within PBR or not.

> Personally, I don't use
>them and I don't need
>one.

Which of course is fine. If you did much bow or muzzle loader hunting I think you would find alot more need to use one.

-DallanC

DallanC · Aug 18, 2004

NP, pm me if you have more questions. These topics interest me alot and generally, most people are unfamiliar with them.

-DallanC

rost495 · Aug 20, 2004

One of the problems when you stretch out past 200 yards is the exact yardage. If you get used to using your scope and shoot the same size animal you can get by easily with that. But a rangefinder can tell you the difference between 300 and 350. And do it quickly. Even if you have to use a rock, bush or tree instead of the exact animal.

There is a small problem with point blank info. It does not take into account rifle accuracy and the average group size, nor does it take into account the difference between bench accuracy vs field positions. What in essence could be done at 300 with the correct zeroing, can become very tough at the same yardage once all the factors are taken into account.

Personally I probably do it without the rangefinder, but then there are those shots that stretch out quite a bit past 300, those require the rangefinder for me.

FWIW thats my 2 cents.

jeff

Chef · Aug 20, 2004

I don't exactly belong to the ultra flat shooting rifle club.
I hunt with mostly lever action rifles in big bore calibers. These are generally slow traveling and 250 yard max range calibers. (I prefer .45-70 and .444 Marlin) The bullet drop is significant and 50 yards makes a lot of difference. I can fire a very heavy bullet up to 400 grains out of a .45-70, but there is a price. Yes a rangefinder comes in quite handy to me. Especially in "practicing" my yardage estimates.

When I do use flatter shooting calibers, I do think I would need one and be thankfull in having a rangefinder if a Coues was across a canyon. Canyons can be misleading, it's best to be as accurate in your yardage estimates as possible. I forget what my Leica's yardage discrepancy is, but it's a lot more accurate than just my eyes! Especially when the buck/bull of a lifetime gets me all buck fevered out!

My .10 cents

Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"