Recovered Berger... interesting

mtmuley

Long Time Member
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This is what is left of a .243 95 grain Hunting VLD that my daughter killed a big muley doe with. Slightly quartered away, the bullet went in behind the shoulder, and took out the heart and lungs. The doe spun around twice and fell over backwards. I found the bullet (or jacket) in the off-side. Not typical performance for a big game bullet, but I can't argue with the results. mtmuley
5892dscf0119.jpg
 
Looks pretty much like you'd expect a jacketed hollow point to look.

Not what I'd call a versitile hunting bullet, great for long range or perfectly placed shots at closer ranges . like you'd expect from a hollow point.

Maybe if they bonded the core or something, but then there may go your accuracy.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-30-13 AT 10:47PM (MST)[p]I shoot Berger 168 VLD's exclusively out of my 7mm mag. I had my custom throughted to seat the bullets with the boat tail bearing surface junction set just above the neck shoulder junction. They are seated to just touch the lands. This gives me .260 in the neck. My load is 66 gr. of H-4831 SC. This load will put 3 bullets in a .350 hole all day long. I did a test a few years back with both the hunting version and target version after reading a debate on Long Range Hunting .com. I loaded both versions for a cow elk hunt. I shot a cow at 560 yards. The first bullet was the target version. She wobbled but didn't go down so I sent a hunting version through her. That shot dropped her. When I examined her the entrance holes were about 4" apart. Both bullets exited. The wound channels and exit holes appeared the same. This is the only time I've had these bullets exit. Since that time both my wife and I have shot deer and antelope with them. My shots have ranged from 70 yards to over 500 yards. All animals have dropped on the spot. Wound channels are significant. I haven't recovered any bullet fragments until this year. I shot this buck at 419 yards this year with a hunting version. The entrance was in the right shoulder. There was a small pin prick in the hide and a very small hole in the meat. Once the bullet hit the shoulder blade the destruction began. It broke the right shoulder blade, the elbow joint, and 3 ribs on the entrance side. The internals were mush. Then broke 3 ribs on the off side and stopped at the left shoulder blade. He did a back flip and was dead before he hit the ground. I found 2 very small pieces of the jacket and 1 small piece of lead in the left shoulder. There were very tiny pieces of lead and jacket throughout the meat in the wound channel. I'm completely satisfied with the performance of these bullets. Guys that complain about them have probably never tried them.
Wes
 
If i found that piece of a bullet in my animal, i'd very soon be looking for another bullet!!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-13 AT 07:38AM (MST)[p]

Sage.
Do you mind if I ask why?
These are the only fragments I recovered from the above buck. These fragments were in the off side shoulder against the shoulder blade.
Wes


This is a typical group achieved with Bergers 168 VLD's in my custom 7 mm mag


Thought I'd throw in a pic of the gun that spits em out.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-13 AT 08:18AM (MST)[p]

Here's a buck from 2012. He was shot at 75 yards. You can see the entrance hole on the left of his nose, thats all that was exposed. The bullet traveled down thru his mouth and stopped at the spine. Needless to say he didn't go anywhere. When I picked him up the lower part of his face and head just hung by the hide. It looked like he tried to swallow a grenade. This bullet didn't exit and I didn't dig around to find it. I just cut the hide to remove the top of his head. No meat damage !
Wes

 
For long range work I'm sure they're great, like a ballistic tip or SST. every bullet shines if you give it the perfect impact velocity and shot placement, a great hunting bullet should have a large window. the VLD can't by design, it's a specialized bullet that fits it's nitch very well.

Good marketing doesn't change the fact they're still a jacketed hollow point.









Stay thirsty my friends
 
440 I don't understand the prejudice against a "jacketed hollow point" .
".every bullet shines if you give it the perfect impact velocity and shot placement, a great hunting bullet should have a large window. the VLD can't by design, it's a specialized bullet that fits it's nitch very well."
I have shot 12 animals , elk, antelope, and deer, with the 168 VLD at various ranges as I've stated from 70 yards to over 500 yards and at various angles from facing head on to sharp angles facing away and everything in between. All animals except 2 have dropped on the spot. The first cow I shot at 560 yards with 2 bullets would have dropped from the first shot but I quickly put another one in her for research purposes. Those 2 bullets hit just behind the left shoulder broad side and exited behind the right shoulder. They are the only VLD's that have exited. Everything else has stayed in the animal. The other animal that didn't drop at the shot was an antelope at 150 yards facing away. The bullet hit it just in front of the left rear leg and stopped inside the rib cage at the right front shoulder. It didn't break any ribs but there was bruising on the rib cage and the inside of the right shoulder. She took 2 steps and nose dived. The first buck above was shot at 419 broadside. You can read about the results in that post. I don't know what the impact velocities are at the various ranges that I've shot animals at but 70 to 500 yards seem like a large window.
"Good marketing doesn't change the fact they're still a jacketed hollow point."
I may have based my original desire to try VLD's on marketing but after trying them in the real world I have had nothing but great results. I respect your opinion,. Just trying to share some personal experience that i've had with them.
Wes
 
First off Wes, very nice looking rifle. To answer your question, i'd have to drag up stuff i and others have hashed out and argued about at least 10 times this year alone.

In short, I don't care to have a bullet go to pieces when it hits the animal. If that were the only bullet available or the only one that shot to my rifles ability, then i'd have no choice but i do have choices, i believe better choices, but you are welcome to do as you please.

Joey



"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Fair enuff Joey. Choices are good. I've tried a few different bullets over the years that I've been hand loading. Shot a lot of different animals with a few different bullets. Last I checked they're all still dead.
Wes
 
The VLD has it's strong points. Even though it worked in the .243, I was completely dissatisfied with it in my .300 RUM. There is a lot of hype about the VLD, I just think you need to be careful how you use it. There is no way in Hell I'd put one into an elk for instance. mtmuley
 
Wes, my point is a jacketed hollow point by design is going to fragment. the VLD might, I say might be designed to be tougher but it will come apart more than traditional hunting bullets.


I'm not going to lie, if a nice bull gives me a quartering shot at the normal 100-200 yards I'm going to take it with my 300 and a partition or a TSX. I would never try it with a ballistic tip or a VLD, I would rather not encourage others to try it either.

I'm not running the VLD down, a real good shooter who picks his shots and is willing to pass if he can't will have no problem with it I'm sure. but how many of is fit that discription all the time if we're honest.



Stay thirsty my friends
 
VLD's work as advertised most of the time..I cant really bad mouth a bullet that I shoot so much. All i'll say is keep them in a lower velocity cartridge and you will probly be happy. Crank up the velocity to have impact speeds in the 3000+ range and you will see some different behavior,especially if you hit some heavy bone.

I still dont feel comfortable using them on bigger critters BTDT.While hunting I like a bullet that works when everything is WRONG.
 
REDDOG, I like the bullet that works when it goes wrong also. I'm going back to Accubonds for most stuff. mtmuley
 
When I first started reloading I used Sierra Game King bullets. They are a lead point thin jacket boat tail design. I killed a lot of animals at all ranges with those bullets. I rarely got a pass thru with them. Most fragmented inside the animal, but left devastating wound channels. After reading negative reports of fragmenting bullets I switched to Nosler Partitions. I shot two animals with them. An elk at 50 yards broadside. The bullet hit just below the spine and exited. The wound channel look like you poked a pencil thru him but provided enuff shock to put him down. The second animal was a deer. I don't have any idea of the yardage but it was a LONG shot. He was moving away. The bullet hit just to the right of his tail leaving a baseball size entrance wound. It traveled down the right back strap, down into the right shoulder then stopped under the skin in his throat. Everything on the right side looked like it had been thru a grinder. It never penetrated the body cavity and I had to put another round in to finish him off. It mushroomed back to the partition with a skim of lead covering it. Never could get them to group the way I wanted. I had the opportunity to buy a bunch of 160 Speer Spitzers cheap. Shot another ton of animals with them. Got about 50 % pass thru's. Of the bullets I recovered most were just the jacket with the core sucked out. A few retained some lead. They did leave good wound channels. I've always shot 160"s. I've never cronoed my loads but according to the load charts they are somewhere around 3000 fps at the muzzle. A few years ago i decided to try some 140"s. I loaded up a bunch of Hornady 140 gr SST's. They grouped fairly well. I only shot 2 deer with them and it wasn't pretty. The first was arount 75 yards. the bullet exploded on impact with his left shoulder and didn't penetrate the chest cavity. Took another round to finish him. The second deer was shot at 534 yards. He was climbing up the opposite side of the canyon. The bullet hit him dead center between the shoulder blades and once again exploded on impact not penetrating the body cavity. After that I started using Bergers 168 VLD's. They do fragment all to hell, worse then the Seirra's. In all my years hunting I have only lost 2 deer. Both were shot with the Speers. Looking back as best as I can remember most of the animals that made a run for it after being shot were animals where the bullet passed thru. There will always be two camps divided between "hunting" bullets that pass thru and "target" bullets that fragment. For now the Bergers are proving to be hell on critters.
Here's a couple quotes I read today from a well known gun writer who likes Sierra Game Kings.

"I would submit that among modern bullets, over penetration is a bigger problem than under penetration. In order to advertise that "Brand-X Bullets retain 99% of their original weight," manufacturers have created a generation of bullets that expand minimally at modest impact velocities, leave a narrow wound track and expend most of their energy on the landscape beyond the animal. Even when perfectly hit, the all too common result is a wounded animal that runs a long way before expiring. Naturally, this substantially reduces the hunter's chance of recovery."

"When field dressed, the lungs (assuming a double lung shot) look like they were put through a blender. What more can a hunter ask? As long as the animal is dead in its tracks, what difference does it make if the fatal bullet fragmented on its way through the creature's chest? The truth is, a bullet that fragments does more damage to vital organs, such as the heart and lungs, than a bullet that retains 100% of its original weight. This creates a wide, quickly fatal wound track and a dead animal that is easy to find. How much weight a bullet retains after it leaves the vitals and whether it exits the animal is inconsequential. These are simple facts, often obscured by advertising hype."

I don't understand all the how's and why's or the science behind why bullets react the way they do. I've got a small brain that's already filled up with crazy ideas. I don't have any room to over load it with the facts.
Wes
 
wes said, ""I would submit that among modern bullets, over penetration is a bigger problem than under penetration."


Not sure if you are just stirring the pot or just FOS! IMO, you don't know what you are talking about. So you killed with the Bergers. Here's a clue, they are bullets, that is what they are supposed to do!

Penetration thru heavy bone, if needed, is KEY!! If your bullet expands on impact, goes to pieces against "Heavy" bone, it will not Penetrate into the body cavity!! So simple but there are guys like you who either just don't know or don't care. I find most of the rest of your post junk blabbering as well!

I'm so tired of this subject but there will continue to be guys who just don't get it. Do what you want but please don't even try to educate others, you'd be doing them a disservice

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-13 AT 09:11PM (MST)[p]Wes
I agree with you completely on the vld bullets. I've had great success with them on game. I am currently testing the accubond longrange and they are shooting just as good as the vld if not better. A bonded high bc bullet seems like a pretty good all around bullet to me.
 
Ca, so, you too think that it is OK for your bullet to fly to pieces? What if the first thing it contacts is heavy bone? Sure they kill, all bullets kill. I want a bullet that will perform, expand, penetrate thru bone, and shoot well. I just don't see how a bullet that ends up in pieces will do all three and will avoid such a bullet at all costs.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Sage.
Didn't realize sharing my first hand experience with various bullets made me FOS. I, like some on here assume that we can discuss subjects and learn from others.
I'll ask, what FIRST HAND experience do you have with Berger bullets or others that fragment and expend all of their energy inside an animal?
Have you ever shot a Berger?
Have you ever killed an animal with a Berger?
Have you done any personal testing or are you just blabbering?
Go back and re read my post and you'll see I didn't say what you credited to me. It is a quote from a well respected gun writer. I just simply agree with his assessment based on my FIRST HAND experience.
Based on 12 kills with Bergers, 11 one shot kills and 1 two kill, with only one animal not immediately dropping I'll just live with my ignorance and continue to use them.
If that upsets you it's not my problem.
Wes
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-13 AT 10:24PM (MST)[p]Wes, I just knew i should have avoided this thread , especially when you jumped in as if it was yours!

i have killed over 100 big game animals with lots of different bullets and am a serious student of the game so get off it. You backed up a Very lame statement above that i quoted. I called you on it. mtmuley has killed more big game than i, reddog has taken more than a few dozen himself, both have used bergers.

Yet, you continue to argue with us so as tired of the topic as i am, i'll cut it short, screw you and your messily 10-11 animals killed. A bullet designed to bust to pieces on impact, let alone if it hits serious bone, is not for me and one guy or anybody that says it should be or that i should try it, is FOS! Live with it!!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Whatever Wes, don't come here and tell us what we need to shoot. You are more than welcome to shoot what you wish and so are we. Input is always good but when you don't care for others findings, it's the smart ass comments from you, OH poor me, i'm not very smart, Have a small brain, live with my ignorance, my animals all died,... That crap went over like a lead brick!

Again, you like them, fine, i'll respect that! But don't badger me because i have an opinion and won't shoot them. I don't have to shoot them to know that they are not what i want in a bullet.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
You Two gonna need a Room?:D













I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-13 AT 10:13PM (MST)[p]Joey
I have used many bullets in my rifles. I have used the berger vld on deer, antelope and pig. All animals shot were drt and all but 1 had an exit. I personally love the accuracy I get with them at long range. IMO the vld design works very well for medium sized game. I've never hunted elk with them. Before I started using the vld I used accubonds. As you know im now shooting the accubond longrange and they are shooting amazing for me. I will test them more but I will no doubt use them on game from now on. A bonded high bc bullet seems pretty good to me.
Just wish nosler would make them quicker and come out with a 6mm in the longrange accubond soon.
I do respect your opinion also and your entitled to your own opinions.
 
Unless you are Hunting Coyotes & Such Junk!

Them Bullets that completely Explode/Separate all the Jacket from the Lead are JUNK!

Got a Friend that shot a Buck Twice with his 300 RUM & they Exploded on Contact!

Recovered both Jackats/pieces & not one spec of lead on any piece of the Jacket!

Great Coyote Round though!

Sure the HELL would not Hunt Elk with them though!

Somebody always trying to get an extra 2,000 fps just to say 'Look at Me' My Gun is Faster than yours!

Just Keep Tampin the Powder Boys!














I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
Bess, I'll bet that you like to cook as a kid. Is this you? lol

5319stirring_the_pot.jpg


:)

Joey



"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
That is Me Uncle sage!

I did find your pic as well!

You were a little younger!

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...T0dfGfgeniR0pzbKjUZCI29Ds7ADLcoDkqxWUn315ABsA









I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
Naw that's not me, never cared much for the drain cleaning side of the job. This is Me!! We didn't have a pool so i made do. lol

1542me_in_toylet.jpg


Joey





"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
>Interesting results regarding a plethora of
>bullets.
>
>http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...cs/7219652/all/30_cal_bullet_test_cow_femurs_

So?

Barnes is a Damn Good Bullet when:

It Opens up like it's suppose to!

Ain't worth a Damn when:

It Doesn't Open up!













I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
WapitBob, really nice article and test, Thanks for posting that link!!

I went back and read thru all the comments on that link you provided and found the whole thread very informative. Some fairly new news about some of the newer Nosler BT"s and the excellent qualities of some Barnes or Mono type bullets seemed to dominate the conversations.

As far as the way my particular favorite hunting bullet came out, was about as expected. The non lead based bullets lead the way in penetration with good expansion while holding together but Noslers Partition and then the ol Accubond were right behind them and held up like the dependable champs they are. Like mtmuleys comment, i too would have like to see how Noslers new Long Range Accubond would have stacked up against the others...

Poor Speer! from the test, it's amazing their bullets even get got out of the box. :)

Joey



"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
My "loose interpretation" of what I have read so far is that they are essentially acting like a Berger. You'll love them with DRT or they'll expand too fast and have a critter run off "dead on its feet". Dead either way, just a matter of what you are expecting.

I could never get the Barnes LRX to shoot out of my factory barrel but now I think I'll load some up and see if they'll group. I'm starting to feel apprehension with the Bergers and ALR's. Maybe load up some std Accubonds too.
 
Hey muley, have you checked out the "7mm wby 175 nosler" thread in the LR section on the 24? I've chimed in a few times on it, (and much to the chagrin of the 7 mashburn super mag fans, matched their velocity with a 7wby:) )

Anywho, SUE35 punched a cow with the 175 LRAB, and the recovered bullet dont look much different than your berger..Like i said in that thread, i'll give them a fair run, but will have LRX's on standby ;)
 
Just got done reading it. Been isolated in Idaho having to beg to borrow a phone with internet to check the forums. I did recover the 210 I killed a bull with this year. I was a bit disappointed to find it after a close range impact. I did have to thread sone brush to make the shot, so there may have been some unintended contact.High shoulder put him down right smartly just like TV. I will weigh it and post up a pic later. Like I said, I'm going back to the regular 200 grain Accubond in my RUM. I've had too much success with it to fool arpound with other stuff. mtmuley
 
Sage, it's funny you even jumped in this thread about a bullet you know nothing about! And when asked a valid question you avoided it and got all huffy puffy.
So Sage??? Have you ever shot the VLD??? If not then your voice or opinion means nothing on the matter. You say it explodes on contact, well, once again you should learn about the bullet before spouting off telling others they are FOS.
I have shot VLDs for the last 5 or so years now. Between me, my uncle, friends that use them and the dozens of people I have let use my gun to kill elk on our ground, one thing is very clear. The VLD is a great killing bullet for big game.
Wes is spot on with his in the field experience. When you hit an animal with a vld, it is mush in the chest cavity. Most animals take very few steps if any before going down.

I shoot a 300 RUM 190 gr Vld. 3,212 fps. I have killed elk, deer, bear, bighorn sheep with this rifle from 40 yards to 934 yards. I have never experienced a vld blowing up on contact and not penetrating, even when elk have been hit in the shoulder. What I have experienced is a few inches of penetration and then a BIG wound channel making soup of the insides, even when hit in the shoulder.
I will admit I was nervous when I first started hunting with the VLD. I read the forums and heard they blew up, thin jacket, no penetration ect.... even talked to a few people that have commented in this thread. now after the 100+ animals I've been apart of dropping from a VLD, I love them! They cause massive internal damage, more than I have seen from other bullets.
I know some people have had a bad experience with them, But the same can be said about all bullets. No matter what brand bullet, you will find those that dislike them because of a bad experience.
I'm not expecting or trying to change minds And at the end of the day I don't care. Shoot what you like and trust. They have worked great and I will continue to use them and put BIG animals down with no problem. I will trust my experience using them over someones opinion with limited actual experience. The more I kill with them, the more I like them.
 
Dry boot I think you need to go back to the original post and take another look at that jacket that seperated from the core. Then read what the person posting said. That the bullet hit the deer behind the shoulder lacerated the lungs and he found the jacket on the far side of the hide.

Based on what he said that bullet only struck tissue and possibly rib bones. If that is true, that bullet reminds me of the old Rem. Core-Lokts that failed numerous times on heavy bone hits. I would do the same as Sage said and look for another bullet for my deer hunting as that bullet is on the brink of causing a total failure down the road due to a jacket that is too light in construction.

RELH
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-12-14 AT 09:07PM (MST)[p]Boot, If a bullet goes to pieces on impact, and i want a bullet that stays together and penetrates, why would i have to shoot a bullet at a animal to find out or know that it's not for me?

I have over 100 kills on big game MYSELF! So far, the Nosler Accubond has the qualities that i require most from a bullet

Maybe you like them Bergers, fine,...but they're not for me and for the life of me i don't understand why you guys can't accept that. I don't need to jump off a roof to know that it will hurt. You like them, fine!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Can't argue with the picture that was posted And don't intend to. But I can about the results I've had over and over. I know what they do and the wound channel they create from in the field experience of 100+ animals. Some great heart/ lung shots and some not so great. They still work well.
Also had a good number of exit holes with the vld. Maybe the jacket shed and stayed in the animal like the picture the op posted and the core exited? Not sure. But the chest cavity was soup and they die quickly. Never had a problem with them blowing up on bone and not penetrating. They penetrate then shed.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-12-14 AT 09:37PM (MST)[p]That's fine sage. ..but.... it does not go to pieces on impact!!! So when you say it does it is false. And that is because you assume and don't really know. It's all good but if you are going to defend your position and talk down on another, you should at least know that what you're saying about the VLD isn't exactly correct. Yes they do expand violently and shed, but not on impact! !! If you want to talk about a bullet that explodes on impact and doesn't penetrate, the old nosler BT fits the category.
 
OK Boot, I agree with that. What i meant "on Impact" is impact with Bone, maybe even serious Bone. When i shoot a good buck with a Accubond, i have had a wound channels that i could stick a boom handle clear thru! :) Again, to each his own and i've thought that way from the beginning.

BTW, i have never shot a 338 Ultra mag but if someone came here and got mad or frustrated that they love theirs and couldn't see why i won't own or use one, there will be the same kind of words said!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
I'll probably keep feeding the .243 with them, but I have zero intenetion of using them in my RUM again. mtmuley
 
muley, you should try the 230 OTM, even if your just single feeding them for play.THat is if they ever make anymore.

Boot, ya thats been my experience as well with them, the USUALLY penetrate around 1-2" then come unglued..Nothing new really, SMK's and Scenars have done the same things for decades before bergers got trendy..100 critters without a bad one is pretty impressive, I dont have near that many kills with them but have had two instances that I wasnt impressed with..Hell even John Burns admitted to a few failers, he musta been drunk when he wrote it cuz he cant seem to remember typing it when its brought up haha.. Thats no different than any other bullet tho, use one long enough and you'll see someting that makes you say WTF?

They are the first to market a match hollow point as a hunting bullet, not something Walt had in mind, he made them strictly for benchrest,but he got lots of feedback saying how well they worked for hunting..Lapua and Sierra had the same feedback for years, but I suspect government contracts kept them from branding them as a hunitng bullet..Same with Hornady's Amax, when they first came out Hornady branded them as a target and a hunting bullet, then they got some militery/LE contracts and had to drop the huniting part.

Long winded, just a bit of history you may or may not already know.
 
REDDOG, I just can't get past how well the 200 grain Accubond works in my RUM for hunting. Gonna go back to it. Why do you think the SMK fell out of favor to the VLD? Or are guys still using it? mtmuley
 
Maybe I have just got lucky and not had a bad experience...yet? But I don't mind it coming apart if it causes a lot of damage.
On another note, Here is a SMK recovered from an elk we killed a few weeks ago. 400 yard shot and stuck in the off shoulder. First time using the SMK and didn't put a good taste in my mouth.

868620131228_120807.jpg
 
From post #4 above: "If i found that piece of a bullet in my animal, i'd very soon be looking for another bullet!!"

Replace "piece" with "chunk", still applies! :)

Cracks me up when people try hard to get others to change from something we are totally satisfied with.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Nobody's trying to get you to change anything, even your brown stained undies! People are simply stating what they have found through "experience" with the bullet. You seem to get opinions of others And their experiences confused with trying to change something you're completely satisfied with. There is a big difference!!! FYI
 
Boot said, "Nobody's trying to get you to change anything, even your brown stained undies! People are simply stating what they have found through "experience" with the bullet."

Boot, "experience", Some good, some bad. For what i want in a bullet, mostly bad! I'll draw my own conclusions based on experience and info i've acquired. In the mean time, keep your eyes out of my shorts and your nose out of my business. I'll draw any damn conclusions i care to, have been down the road and up enough trails to have earned that. I don't need or want a bullet that comes to countless small pieces starting on impact, first impact with any bone, and if you say that it doesn't, you too are FOS!! Keep your Bergers, i don't care. Myself. i would be looking for a different bullet.

Joey





"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-15-14 AT 02:18PM (MST)[p]Boot, that SMK is a classic example of what a HP bullet can do, usually marginally stabilized by lazy twists and/or low velocity. Berger had the same problems and addressed it with thinner jackets for their hunting bullets, something we wont see happen with scenars or SMK, too bad.They still arent immune to it, any hollow point can do it, nature of the beast.

Barnes also had those issues with the TSX, hence the tipped versions now.


What was the cartridge used? 10 twist? I dont ask because I want to argue, I am genuinely curious because researching twist rates for my 338 LOTS of examples like that came up, ALL of them from 10 or slower twists, tis why I went with a 9.3" for mine. Examples of Berger,Scenar,SMK,Hornady and a few others. All were 300's except the hornady.I found no problems with guys using a 9.5" or faster.

another example was my 6/06 using SMK/VLD's, even the lower weight bullets at high velocity werent expanding, switched to an 8 twist and wow, what a difference.

About the only maker I found that was adamant about using a 10 twist on 338's was Kirby Allen, but his carts dont count, as his carts strain bullets far more than most.
 
Rifle is a .338RUM. I think he said around 2,800ish fps but don't quote me on that. I'll find out twist and let you know
 

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