Reloader ? 3

mickeyelk

mickeyelk

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I got away from my initial reloading project and now getting time to do it again. I don't want to rush into this. Well I bought an OAL gauge from Hornady and measured both the rifles that I want to reload. I have an older 270 and just purchased a new 300 win mag. My first project is the 270. I used the OAL gauge and it measured 3.558 +- 1 OAL. My reloader book says max is 3.340 OAL. The OGIV is 3.033. The bullet is barely hanging on. Somewhere I messed up. So I checked the 300win mag and its OAL WAS 3.515 Ogiv of 2.895. The rings on the bullet that I was using were mostly showing Barnes ttsx. Max cart. Oal is 3.340. Help! Where did I go wrong? Thanks guys and bare with me.
 
Sounds like your 270 has long throat, or you measured wrong. Obviously you can't load it that long and still get good results. Back it down so the boattail is at the neck/shoulder junction and go from there. Make a dummy load and check that it will fit in the mag and cycle through the action.

That should be a good starting point.
 
What he said. I would add that what “the book” says is a good place to start. I would also ignore any channelure on the bullet.

When you are chasing the lands trying to figure out max lenghth for your gun, it’s pretty easy to make loads that are too long to chamber. You don’t want that.

You can always load a couple of dummies (no primer/powder) and see how they fit.

In my experience fooling with cartridge length for a hunting round/rifle is time poorly spent. I’m much more interested in bullet/powder combos.

Oh, and buy a manual if you don’t already have one. If I were to have only one, I like the sierra because it lays flat on the bench and has about everything you need to know.
 
10x this.....

"In my experience fooling with cartridge length for a hunting round/rifle is time poorly spent. I’m much more interested in bullet/powder combos."
 
I have 2 manuals that I compare to each other. But my measurements shouldn't be that much off. The 300 win mag is new, no shots fired at this point. I watch those YouTube videos and I followed what they said about the OAL measurements.
 
Of course you realize that different bullets and shapes play a big part in OAL. All that really matters is that you can chamber the round, and that its not so long that it blows you up.

Here’s a pic of one of my 300 wm hunting rounds. It’s a 180 grain nosler partition, with an OAL of 3.33 ish. It’s probably 3.35 if it didn’t have a soft lead tip that got knocked off. The point is OAL varies because you seat off of the ogive (ish), or at least with a “cup” in almost all cases.

And I can’t make the point enough that the round needs to be short enough to fit in the magazine. This length cycles just fine in my rifle(s).
EAF85B62-0051-450D-A86D-36CA29068651.jpeg
 
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Incidentally, have you run a factory round thru that 300 just to make sure? Might give you some peace of mind.

Not too many years ago there were only a couple of 30 cal mags. Now I have no idea how many there are, and some very similar in dimension. I’ve never seen it, but there’s a very tiny chance the chamber could be cut wrong.
 
I cycled a round 5 times, just without firing it(300). Haven't made it to the range yet. With the bullet in the magazine (300) there seems to be allot of room for the tip not to hit while inserted. Wanted to load some 270's and go. I may just copy a round that shoots well in my rifle and see from there (270)
 
Bullet depth, while "possibly" important, is the last thing to worry about and it's only for fine tuning an already good shooting load.
I agree, powder type and amount, bullet weight, type and shape are much more important than fine tuning seating depth.

If possible, I start at 20 thousandths off and find the right load first before playing with seating tuning. If you cannot do the above and have a proper fit in the mag box, seat them as long as possible for the box and proper feeding and go from there.

Seating depth is quite important on a couple of my rifles, for the rest, not so much.

Zeke
 
Homer, trying to measure to the lands to increase my accuracy out to 500 + yards . It should have been easy. But!
 
Remington are known to have a lot of free bore. I would do what Tony said and load the bullet to the neck/shoulder junction. Do a ladder test and find that sweet spot. You can then mess with bullet jump since jamming is out. lol

Also, you can play with the neck tension. I find more tension is better in my loads/rifles.
 
mickeyelk said:
I got away from my initial reloading project and now getting time to do it again. I don't want to rush into this. Well I bought an OAL gauge from Hornady and measured both the rifles that I want to reload. I have an older 270 and just purchased a new 300 win mag. My first project is the 270. I used the OAL gauge and it measured 3.558 +- 1 OAL. My reloader book says max is 3.340 OAL. The OGIV is 3.033. The bullet is barely hanging on. Somewhere I messed up. So I checked the 300win mag and its OAL WAS 3.515 Ogiv of 2.895. The rings on the bullet that I was using were mostly showing Barnes ttsx. Max cart. Oal is 3.340. Help! Where did I go wrong? Thanks guys and bare with me.
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You didn’t go wrong. Plenty of good advice has already been given. Your 270 is a long throat or worn out throat. What bullet are you loading in the 270?
Your 300win seems about right on OAL. Book max means nothing. Use your measurement to the lands and start .050 off if using a Barnes bullet. It’s ok to have the rings showing also.
 
If you loaded the ballistic tip to 3.538 how far is the bullet into the case? That would be .020 off by your measurements and a good place to start with that bullet IMO. Be sure to check that the fit the magazine length also. If not you can start about .020 short of magazine length and load them there.
You could also just load them to book max and see how they shoot.
 
mickeyelk said:
Homer, trying to measure to the lands to increase my accuracy out to 500 + yards . It should have been easy. But!
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Mick,

I'm new to reloading too, but the problem you're having trying to measure the CBTO is the same problem I had recently. I bought the Hornady bullet comparator, but it didn't work like I expected. Shoot me a PM and I'll share with you what my gunsmith told me to do, which I did and it worked perfectly.
 
Why a PM? I’m always on the lookout for new tips/tricks and appreciate when people share them. $.02
 
Bluehair said:
Why a PM? I’m always on the lookout for new tips/tricks and appreciate when people share them. $.02
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I was hoping to jump on the phone with Mick to describe the process as I think it'd be easier since this is all new to me.

This came from my gunsmith and I've seen versions of this same process on YouTube channels. Basically, if it's a Rem 700 or 700 clone (not sure of other actions), remove the firing pin and ejector and load a reloaded round that you know won't chamber due to the bullet being seated too far out. Then with your press and seating die slowly start seating the bullet deeper and deeper while each time loading into the chamber and gently trying to close the bolt. When the bolts starts to get close to closing start reducing the seating depth so it's only being seated 0.001" or less each time. This took me quite a few times, but once the bolt closed easily I stopped there and measure CBTO with a bullet comparator. This should get you a CBTO length of 0.001 or less off the lands (jam). My 280 ai had a CBTO measurement of 2.8435 and I loaded bullets to -0.050 for a CBTO of 2.7935 and a COAL of 3.4420..

I have the Hornady COAL and a modified case for my gun, but I was finding that I was getting a different measurement each time I push the rod/case/bullet into the chamber. What I think was happening is the modified case wasn't fully seating in the chamber each time due to how tight it was.

After this process, for my 280 ai I loaded some Hammer 143 gr bullets 0.050 off the lands and ended up with a cartridge that has a COAL 0.190 longer than a Nosler factory loaded round (in photo, 143 Hammer on left and Nosler eTip factory on right), but easily fit my magazine and with room to spare. I loaded up a five cartridges in each 0.5 gr increment from 59.0 to 62.0 grs and I'm heading to the range tomorrow to see which is grouping the best. I may then start playing around with seating depth, 0.030, 0.020, etc., to fine tune accuracy.

I'm brand new to this myself and I'm working through the process and absorbing as much as I can. Both CAhunter805 and PCPython have been helping me and answering my ridiculous questions. Plus my wife has to be tired of me watching YouTube videos on reloading by now!! Any added advice to this process is appreciated.

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Cahunter. it barely hangs on. I think I'll try a dummy round and adjust downwards from there like 4x4 says to try. I have to watch to make sure it fits into the magazine.
 
A Rem700 LA Mag box should be about 3.650 and still feed reliably. You should have plenty of room in your 270. As long as the bullet is seated into the neck about half the length of the neck you will be fine. Some people say go to the neck/shoulder junction with the base of the bullet also.
 
Well I just loaded a dummy round and did what 4x4 said to do. It seemed to fit at 3.449 length of bullet in the rifle where I could eject it. I took .050 off it and measured it for 3.399. It ejects fine. 1st picture is the dummy load and seems to just fit the magazine. Next is the dummy and a regular bullet that shoot real well out of the rifle. It measures 3.225. Bullet loaded. Last picture is of the loaded bullet in the magazine.

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mickeyelk said:
I was suppose to show you this one for loaded bullet

View attachment 46088
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Don't forget that you'll have to do the process I described for every bullet and every different weight bullet (even if it's the same manufacturer). The CBTO and COAL is going to change for every bullet and weight. I have only done this for the 143 gr Hammers but will do this again for the 155 gr Hammers. Oh, and some Barnes TTSX!!
 
If this rifle is a BDL don’t forget to check if they drop out when the floor plate is release.
Also be sure to try and load a full magazine to be sure they all fit down into the mag box and don’t bind.
Make sure when loading them to seat them to the back of the mag box also.
 
One thing to remember is that "just fitting" the magazine might not result in smooth or consistent operation. I learned this lesson with my son's Remington 700 7mm-08. I determined COAL to fit just on the lands, and checked that I could load them into the magazine. Did all the normal stuff- multiple powder charges, found a good 1" group load, made 40 for hunts. But when in the field, he took a shot and quickly worked the bolt for another round and it jammed. Lesson: put 3-4 in a magazine, and insure you can cycle them all up through the magazine into the chamber. I realized I had never really checked that while target shooting. Just loaded in one at a time :(
 
Adder- I was pretty disappointed that the magazine box in his 700 was as "short" as that. For many ogives one simply cannot have the bullet out to the lands. My other rifles do not have that issue- but I always check...
 
Homer said:
10x this.....

"In my experience fooling with cartridge length for a hunting round/rifle is time poorly spent. I’m much more interested in bullet/powder combos."
Click to expand...

I wouldn't call it a waste of time but I do think people tend to over think CBTO and COAL. For hunting, I would get the bulk of the accuracy with a specific bullet and powder charge and THEN fine tune with bullet seating. 9/10 if you can't get 1 1/2" groups at a 100 yards with a book published OAL, the bullet/powder combo or gun is no beuno.

That being said, Ive had 2 rifles that went from 2"+ groups gradually to sub MOA strictly with bullet seating; a Weatherby Mark V 6.5 Creed and a Weatherby Mark V .257 Weatherby.

Then again I have a Fierce 300 Win Mag that you can probably randomly pick a powder charge, bullet and random OAL and it'll shoot 1 1/2" or better. Just isn't a finicky gun.

I like shooting steel anymore. If I can put 3 shoots in the 4" gong at 200 yards off the sticks or tripods, I'm good to go huntin.
 

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