RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Hawkeye

Hawkeye

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RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

LAST EDITED ON May-08-13 AT 01:17PM (MST)[p]RMEF issued the following press release today. I know many Utah sportsmen have concerns regarding the number of permits that the DWR has set aside for auction. It is refreshing to have one of the groups who participates in the conservation permit program advocating for increased transparency and accountability. RMEF?s message is consistent with the concerns expressed by a large number of sportsmen. Rather than getting defensive, I would hope that some of the other conservation groups follow RMEF's lead on this issue.

What are your thoughts regarding RMEF?s press release? What are the chances that SFW, MDF and other conservation groups follow suit?





Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Bowtech Destroyer
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

No surprise from RMEF. They are a great orginazation and consistently prove their integrity.

If history does in fact repeat, then you all know how the other orginazations will respond.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

>RMEF issued the following press release
>today. I know many
>Utah sportsmen have concerns regarding
>the number of permits that
>the DWR has set aside
>for auction. It is
>refreshing to have one of
>the groups who participates in
>the conservation permit program advocating
>for increased transparency and accountability.
> RMEF�s message is consistent
>with the concerns expressed by
>a large number of sportsmen.
> Rather than getting defensive,
>I would hope that some
>of the other conservation groups
>follow RMEF's lead on this
>issue.
>
>What are your thoughts regarding RMEF�s
>press release?
>
>
>
>
>
>Hawkeye
>
>Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
>Bowtech Destroyer
>Winchester Apex .50 Cal



I was not a big fan at all of RMEF during the whole Utah Wolf Working group issue (Thanks Bill), however this is a HUGE deal! I support this 100% and will now become a member and support them. I sure hope that their example will be a model for other conservation groups here in Utah.






Tallbuck1
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Proud to be a RMEF member....They do it right.
Best,
Jerry
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

I support RMEF and applaude what they are trying to do here. But...we need to understand that the AZ Game & Fish requires that 100% of the proceeds from auction tags be returned to them regardless of the organization that auctions the tag. Not being a nitpicking whiner, just interested in full disclosure.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

LAST EDITED ON May-08-13 AT 01:53PM (MST)[p]Outstanding....that's exactly how it should be done.

Eager to hear the response from other con-orgs.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Sagebrush-

RMEF appears to be saying that it will return 100% of the revenue from conservations permits from any state:

"RMEF will not accept big game auction tags from any state for fundraising purposes unless all of the revenue derived from it benefits wildlife,? said David Allen, RMEF president and CEO. ?This is a much needed investment in our wildlife resource and its management, habitat enhancement, and our hunting heritage. It also assists state agencies dealing with budgetary challenges. These tags were intended to benefit wildlife conservation and hunting access, not the organizations selling them."

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Bowtech Destroyer
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

I'm definitely sending in my $35 membership renewal. It's been sitting on my desk for a week or two now. This is exactly what these organizations should be doing. Well done RMEF!
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Of course they are, Whey would they tell you any different~
Has anyone ever heard or Marketing? This is nothing but a marketing press release to pound their chest and get you to send them your $35 bucks. They do not need the tag money, they will have yours. Send in your money and get your magazine maybe they will plant another seed on a 20,000 acres in Utah and claim to have preserved 20,000 acres in Utah for Elk..... BS
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Smart marketing sign me up.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

ihunt4200, If it's marketing, the RMEF appears to be fricken geniuses. You however, do not appear to be one. mtmuley
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

proud to be with the rmef, all so,,,,
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Very nice development - either you are a conservation organization - or you are not. RMEF is.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

I was due to renew,just did it. RMEF is the only conservation org I support these days.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Great move RMEF.

Regardless of intentions, I like the play and hope others will follow.

Grizzly

PS. Tristate, please be an adult and respect my wishes that you do not respond to any of my posts. I, in turn, will do you the courtesy of not responding to any of yours. I simply do not wish to converse with you.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Thanks for the heads-up Hawkeye.

I am down to just the RMEF and WSF as far as honest membership Org.s go for me .

Robb
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

This is business. The whole reason these conservation organizations exist is because people recognize the state agencies are pathetic at wildlife management and conservation for continued harvest. Even the state agencies know this and that is one of the reasons they donate the tags. Why give all the money back to the agency so it can circle the bowl along with all the other money they pee down the drain and you get no results with? All I can figure is RMEF has recognized there is only so many dollars in the business they are in and they have realized that they are in competition with other conservation groups for those dollars. This is their way to choke out the competition witha PR stunt. Plus the states will be more likely to allocate a higher percentage of these tags to RMEF since RMEF gives them more money. This will also choke out more competition. RMEF is a business like any of these other guys are. There's no moral superiority here.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Tristate-

Under the Utah Conservation Permit Rule, 90% of the revenues raised from conservation permits must be used for approved conservation projects. The groups keep the remaining 10% for overhead, expenses, salaries, or whatever else they want. When you consider the number and the quality of the tags involved, we are talking about big money.

I have long argued that 100% of those revenues should be used for approved conservation projects. If you have ever attended an SFW, MDF or RMEF banquet, you know that these groups make money from a number of sources. Conservation permits are major draws for the groups. Why not require that 100% of the money from those tags be used for actual conservation? The groups can use the funds generated from other sources as they see fit.

You question the motives of the RMEF and call this "a PR stunt." That is exactly how the other conservation groups responded last time RMEF called for increased transparency. Unfortunately for those groups, RMEF is not just talking the talk but walking the walk. As stated by David Allen in the press release: "These tags were intended to benefit wildlife conservation and hunting access, not the organizations selling them.?

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Bowtech Destroyer
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Glad and proud that I rejoined when they announced BigFin was being appointed to the BOD!!!
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

This will
>also choke out more competition.
> RMEF is a business
>like any of these other
>guys are. There's no
>moral superiority here.
__________________________

Uh... really Tristate? No moral superiority here?

It is crystal clear to me that RMEF IS IN FACT MORALLY SUPERIOR TO SFW & MDF.

Beyond a shadow of a doubt they are.

I'm sure you'll have an entertaining comback trying to "get your point across".
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Hawkeye,

Maybe I am misunderstanding the letter, but I thought it was stating that RMEF was just turning around and handing %100 of the money back to the state agencies. If that is the case I don't see much point in it. We allready know that the state agencies can't budget conservation. Its like giving your water to a man that wants to carry it with a fishing net.

If they are just saying that %100 will go back to conservation projects in that state then I say go for it. It is still a repsonse to competitive business. I think one of the misunderstandings here is that I am against this, which I am not. I am just telling the facts of life. If it were only about being righteous then there is no need to put it in a public letter. My business donates thousands of dollars every year to all kinds of organizations. I have never stamped it on a letter and sent it to my customers.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Tristate-

RMEF put this in a press release because they are calling on their fellow conservation organizations to follow suit. This is the second time that they have issed a call for increased transparency and accountability with respect to conservation and convention permits. See prior release dated /13/2012: http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/Pr...EFCallsforTransparencyonStateSpecialBigG.aspx

Thank you for explaining the "facts of life" to the rest of us simpletons.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Bowtech Destroyer
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Hawkeye,

Its all just business. I have seen the "open accounting" of RMEF and it doesn't answer anymore questions than SFW and their no books policy. It all has to do with PR. To some right now RMEF is winning that battle compared to SFW. But in reality with the "independent accounting" which really isn't independent since they choose and and pay for, those people rally aren't learning anything above what they know about SFW. Again I am a guy who is an RMEF member and donor and I am not a member of SFW, so I am just telling you the hard facts.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Tristate-

If you can't see the difference between RMEF posting their audited financials on their website and SFW's "no books policy" (your words) then you are beyond help.

Perhaps RMEF is getting some good PR as a result of their move toward increased transparency. I certainly hope that is the case.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Bowtech Destroyer
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

"To some right now RMEF is winning that battle compared to SFW."

Right Now!!!! Wait a minute look at the big picture


RMEF: Existance Approx 30 Yrs National Organization

SFW: Existance Approx 20 Yrs Utah organization with a small contigent membership in a few Western States.

RMEF: Membership 197,00 plus reaching all time highs the past two years.

SFW: Membership Unaccounted for but publicized to be Approx 15,000

RMEF: 6 Million plus acres conserved and growing daily among the majority of states all held in Public Trust

SFW: Actual numbers unaccounted for but most of it in Utah with substantial acres held in private ownership.

RMEF: 90 plus percent of funds to mission by certified audit.

SFW: Internal audit puts the figure at what will blow our horn the best today "trust us".

RMEF: has been winning the PR battle since day one and continues to do so because they have a vision that is about wildlife!
Bad times: RMEF ousts the leadership and moves on, look at the Wolf Debacle or removing Hunting from the Logo. RMEF is a grassroots organization ran by sportsman for the good of wildlife. While many want to take credit for the proliferation of our elk herds it is not coincidence that the time line follows the life cycle of RMEF.

SFW: Blows their horn loud and considers themselves winning, often taking credit or laying blame to fit the PR battle of the day. However, when bad times come they insult the general sportsman tell us we don't need to know and trust them while maintaining the same leadership and finding the next best way to make a buck. The leadership cannot be changed because if the board tries the individual soon loses their positin on the board as it is not an elected postion but appointed. Although they were able to infiltrate Utah with their program they continue to struggle nationally because they do not represent anything but themselves. They can continue to spew all the good they have done and how many members they have but it will never be validated because they know what open books will tell. Not only have they lost the PR battle over the past 20 years but they have not even met the levels of PR they have been spewing. A very small player in the overall picture of wildlife conservation. To their credit they have done a fantastic job of positioning themselves politically in Utah to form a DWR and wildlife managment plan that caters to the Trophy Hunters and money.


TRI,

There is irony in you condeming RMEF's Moral Authority. More than anyone on this site you often argue a position asserting your Moral Authority. Often that being SFW a group you admit not belonging to. Where does your Moral Authority come from? You are a hard person to understand but one thing is for sure your opinion is just that your opinion, not the save all for wildlife or our country. Keep that in mind next time you question Moral Authority or begin telling us how our opinions are wrong or do not make sense.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

"But in reality with the "independent accounting" which really isn't independent since they choose and and pay for,"

This is a common practice (and often required) for non profit organizations. Accounting agencies don't put their reputations on the line, much less risk legal consequences, by fudging on audits. RMEF gives concrete, measurable results. What is or isn't moral is defined differently by different people, but unless your in the head of who ever you are judging, you really don't know their motivation. It can be good business, good PR, and still be morally founded.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

MMWB,

Google the name Arthur Andersen, then start thinking what CPA firms will and won't do with their reputation. That was a multi-billion dollar company that was reporting to the SEC. You think you couldn't shop for some rinky dink firm to do the same especially if it is only fed to websites??????
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

"TRI,

There is irony in you condeming RMEF's Moral Authority."

I never condemed any "moral authority" anywhere. I just claimed this was business and nothing to do with "moral authority".

" More than anyone on this site you often argue a position asserting your Moral Authority."

Go find one single place on this website where I have ever claimed "moral authority" over anything. I am starting to believe you don't even know what that phrase means.

" Often that being SFW a group you admit not belonging to."

Is this even a sentence??????

" Where does your Moral Authority come from?"

I have none and I don't pretend to be righteous.

" You are a hard person to understand but one thing is for sure your opinion is just that your opinion, not the save all for wildlife or our country. Keep that in mind next time you question Moral Authority or begin telling us how our opinions are wrong or do not make sense."

Moral authority and opinions have very little to do with each other. I suggest you slow down and learn how to comprehend what you read and quit getting your little girl panties in a twist because someone told you the RMEF did something as a business move and not as a moral authority. Lay off the hero worship of your lords and learn how to look at things with objectivity. Being an RMEF member ain't going to put you first in line through the gates. Reeeelaaaaaaaaax.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Tri,

Sorry about the sentence structure it has always been my weakness. I guess that is why I chose math related fields to pursue.

I believe I understand Moral Authority well enough to argue it. I also believe when you questioned RMEF's "moral superiority" an assertion was made that authority existed.

Can you explain this?

"I am just telling the facts of life. If it were only about being righteous then there is no need to put it in a public letter. My business donates thousands of dollars every year to all kinds of organizations. I have never stamped it on a letter and sent it to my customers"

IMO this statement by you does allude to Moral Authority in your claim. "I am just telling the facts of life."


(Feel free to edit my sentence structure and grammar, grade it if you like. I am trying to improve, I need to impress my youngest daughter who is an English Teacher.)
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

LAST EDITED ON May-10-13 AT 09:26AM (MST)[p]Mulepacker,

Thankyou for the question. As for the quote there is no need to assume I am talking about moral authority. I am simply stating motive and the division of personal decisions from business. My decisions when I do charity is a personal one. For RMEF it appears to be a business decision. Lets be clear I am not knocking RMEF for doing it in a business format. I never did in any of this. If I had a problem with it I would be taking it up with them and deciding whether to resign my membership.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

I don't believe I am assumning:

"The whole reason these conservation organizations exist is because people recognize the state agencies are pathetic at wildlife management and conservation for continued harvest. Even the state agencies know this and that is one of the reasons they donate the tags."

judgement certainly falls under the realm of moral authority

"pathetic" derived from apathy a moral value

"There's no moral superiority here." again a judgment on your part as to morals and intent.

"Lay off the hero worship of your lords and learn how to look at things with objectivity. Being an RMEF member ain't going to put you first in line through the gates. Reeeelaaaaaaaaax."
How many assumptions were made in this statement? Are there any moral values questioned / insuated?


"If it were only about being righteous"
I would argue righteousness or the determing factor of righteousness is a moral judgement.

So am I assuming you are "talking about moral authority"?

Tri maybe your right I just can't/don't see the objectivity as you see it. Does that make me wrong and you right?


Way to go RMEF for making (IMO) a wise business decision and continuing to raise the bar in accountability and transparency for all Conservation Organizations.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Do you realize how silly this is getting mulepacker? You are arguing my intent. I have allready told you my intent and you are still arguing it with absolutely no way to proove your arguement. You can believe whatever crap you want because thats what crazy people do. All I did was tell you I thought this was a business move on the part of the RMEF and that it didn't have anything to do with actually being moraly superior and you have gone off some wierd deap-end search for people's "moral authority". All this is is an opinion and doesn't mean you, me, RMEF or anybody has any moral authority in the conversation. Like I said before lay off the hero worship and RELAX. You think judgement makes people assume moral authority and it doesn't. I can judge a color to be purple and you can call it perrywinkle. Doesn't mean morals ever enter the picture. Even if you believe RMEF are the moral authorities it still doesn't mean that they can never make good business decisions. I know thats scary thinking good business decisions and morality can go hand in hand but they can. Again I am using judgement there so I am sure you are going to think I am promoting some silly moral authority over people and you won't be able to get your panties untwisted.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Am I getting to you TRI?

I mean calling me crazy, weird, assuming my panties are twisted come on now isn't that one of the things you dislike about these threads all the childish insults.

Maybe I am the only person who misconstrued your statement of moral superiority. But from other responses I believe not. In fact could you now be changing the intent of your statement?

Any way I am done now for a while I need to go untwist my panties!!!
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

"Am I getting to you TRI?"

No, but if you need some self gratification going into the weekend keep living the dream.

"I mean calling me crazy, weird, assuming my panties are twisted come on now isn't that one of the things you dislike about these threads all the childish insults."

Actually not a single on of those words are considered insults by anyone I know. Two are adjectives and one is a saying for people that are getting so upset they can't think clearly. If I wanted to insult you you would definately know it.

"Maybe I am the only person who misconstrued your statement of moral superiority. But from other responses I believe not. In fact could you now be changing the intent of your statement?"

You need that affirmation don't you. Considering you argue my intent from the beginning what does it matter what my intent is was or will be. You decide that.

"Any way I am done now for a while I need to go untwist my panties!!!"

I doubt that.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Checked in for first time in weeeks and see the idiot rodeo is in full swing. RMEF is clearly walking the talk now as an organization a man can be proud of and SFW, well, not so much. Wish we had an IGNORE button. Feeding the trolls is too easy without the button.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

>MMWB,
>
>Google the name Arthur Andersen, then
>start thinking what CPA firms
>will and won't do with
>their reputation. That was
>a multi-billion dollar company that
>was reporting to the SEC.
> You think you couldn't
>shop for some rinky dink
>firm to do the same
>especially if it is only
>fed to websites??????


desperate post. sfw and any other non transparent org. just got hit where it hurts most
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

I'm sure there are bad apples in every profession. Some do have a tendency to assume all apples are bad in every profession. I'll base my assessment of the RMEF and others based on facts, what can be seen and measured, rather than assumptions.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

"desperate post."

Why is that a desperate post? MMWB brought up the opinion that no CPA firm was going to gamble with its reputation. I simply showed that not only will proven CPA firms gamble with their reputation they will flat out gamble with their freedom. Its not desperate. Its reality. Ignore it if you choose.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Well, I didn't say "no" agencies, but did say agencies as a generalization. As indicated in a later post, no doubt there are elements of the unethical and dishonest in most professions. I won't assume someone is unethical or dishonest until clear evidence indicates it to me. I used to be bit of a cynic when younger, but experience has convinced me that the vast majority of humanity is really just good, hard working, honest people. The riffraff tend to get the press though.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

"I won't assume someone is unethical or dishonest until clear evidence indicates it to me."


Thats a great rule to keep in life. Has SFW done something clearly unethical or dishonest that makes you not trust them?
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

I try avoid posting here, especially in response to certain people since it only encourages more rhetoric. Given the topic and the fact that I already responded to a person of similar thinking tonight, I figured I'd give some advice.

I would like to encourage the gentleman from texas to switch professions. You should start a Hedge Fund that only invests in private companies that refuse independent audits. After all these audits add no value. I am sure both stockholder and bondholder will line up to buy shares in your fund in the same way people on MonsterMuley are inspired by your flawless logic and eloquent posts. You'll be a billionaire in no time and can go from stuffing exotic animals to hunting them all over the world.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

>"desperate post."
>
>Why is that a desperate post?
> MMWB brought up the
>opinion that no CPA firm
>was going to gamble with
>its reputation. I simply
>showed that not only will
>proven CPA firms gamble with
>their reputation they will flat
>out gamble with their freedom.
> Its not desperate.
>Its reality. Ignore it
>if you choose.


tell me this why is it that you have to defend sfw so much. is it because they are a stand up honest group. or is it because they are shady. and you want to keep up the cutthroat chararistics that they value.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Way to go RMEF. Proud to be a member!


"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Thinking I defend SFW is as silly as thinking I was attacking RMEF on this thread. I am doing neither. What I am trying to do is to get sportsmen to approach and deal with the real issues attacking wildlife and quit wasting time with these distractions.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

I like stuffing animals.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

I don't believe I've ever made a comment in this or any other thread about SFW.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

>Thinking I defend SFW is as
>silly as thinking I was
>attacking RMEF on this thread.
> I am doing neither.
> What I am trying
>to do is to get
>sportsmen to approach and deal
>with the real issues attacking
>wildlife and quit wasting time
>with these distractions.


i still say kudos to rmef. like it or not it is the stand up thing to do. as far as sfw maybe not you tristate. but do the people who defend them so much not get it. they have to defend them cause there is a huge black cloud of smoke surrounding the non profit org. and where there is smoke there is fire.KUDOS TO RMEF
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Nothing to defend about SFW. RMEF has been taking the 10% on the conservation tags in Utah all along. Now that they are changing there program means nothing. As for the Arizona tags, even SFW has been giving back 100% of the money. That is the way it works in Arizona so nothing new.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

>"I won't assume someone is unethical
>or dishonest until clear evidence
>indicates it to me."
>
>
>Thats a great rule to keep
>in life. Has SFW
>done something clearly unethical or
>dishonest that makes you not
>trust them?
___________________________________________________

This made me laugh outloud!

To answer your question tristate... YES!
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Birdman-

I am just thinking out loud but how do you think the conservation organizations (SFW, MDF, RMEF and all the others) would respond to a rule amendment requiring that 100% of all revenues generated from Utah conservation permits be used for actual conservation projects? Just to be clear -- I am not aware of any such amendment in the works but I have been chewing on this issue for a while and I think that such a rule change would address many of the concerns of the general public. First, it would ensure that all of the revenues from those tags be used for actual conservation. Second, it would also address the concern that these groups have become so dependent on conservation permit money to run their organizations that they often push for management decisions that protect and maximize that source of revenue rather than doing what is best for wildlife and sportsmen generally. Third, it would reduce the incentive to further increase the number of such tags in an effort to increase the revenue for these groups.

Do you think that the conservation groups would support such a move? You seem to be fairly involved with SFW. Perhaps you could check with SFW's leadership and report back to the group.

Let us know.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Bowtech Destroyer
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

"To answer your question tristate... YES!"


And what would that be?
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

That is an interesting approach Hawkeye, but where do you draw the line between dollars spent on conservation and dollars spent on management of conservation products. For instance the state may have a biologist that goes and actually works in the field , but then their is an office manager that keeps several biologists directed and runs phones for them etc.. The dollars spent on an office manager by the state still result in conservation for the state. The same could be argued for or against these private conservation orgs. Now you will start a whole new war of hair splitting.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Tristate-

The conservation permit rule already defines what qualifies as appropriate conservation activities. That definition may need to be tweaked a little but your question ia already largely addressed by the rule put together by these groups and the DWR. My question is not "hair splitting" it is simply a proposal to ensure that the 100% of the monies are appropriately used for actual conservation activities.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Bowtech Destroyer
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Hawkeye,

I did not claim your question to be hairsplitting. I was stating that it could lead to a lot of hairsplitting and arguements. I am sure if you went from %90 to %100 a lot of what is defined would be questioned and redefined.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Tris how about cons groups give back 110% would you argue that???
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Birdman,

I am sure I have read several times wherein you say Arizona SFW has nothing to do with SFW and that they are not the same organziation. Why are you now claiming that even SFW gave back 100% in Arizona if SFW and Arizona SFW are not associated?
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

If conservation groups so decide to give back %110 I have no problem at all with it. If you want the government to demand %110 I have a big problem with that. That's nothing more than taxation.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Utah400elk, Yes I have stated that they are separate organizations which they are. They are not associated. Every year Arizona has tags that are auctioned off at the Expo. Those tags require 100% of the money go back to Arizona. Every year Arizona as well as Colorado, Wyoming, Nevada, sometimes Oregon, California and Nebraska have had tags that were auctioned off at the Expo.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Hawkeye, Don't know if they would or would not. I really do not care. RMEF stated a few years back that they gave all the money back on the tags. The audit performed by the state said otherwise. Now they say that they will again. Will wait and see. As for the other groups, some might. As for the state changing the rule. I would think that they would not. They would not want to loose the money that comes from the sales of the tags. They get way too much accomplished that they would not without the tags and they do not want to loose the organizations taking the tags. If I remember right, when these tags started, there were 12 sheep tags. Only 1 was a rocky mountain big horn. The money earned off those tags paid for transplants etc which has increased the sheep tags to I think70 this year. Without looking I think 40 are Rocky mtn bighorn. What matters is that because of the conservation tags, instead of 12 people being able to go sheep hunting, now 70 people will be able to draw a tag. Same has happened with goats, antelope, buffalo, elk, turkey, etc. My belief is that now it has been proven deer can be transplanted, that will continue. Some people may not like an organization getting 10%. Don't forget the advertising that goes on as well as other things that come out of the 10%. I personally do not think that the DWR will ever require 100% but then never know. Everyone has benefited from the conservation tags whether they know it or not. More tags have come about for the public.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Birdman,

Thanks, I am aware that Arizona tags have been auctioned off at the expo. Which tags have been awarded to SFW? When you said even SFW gives back 100% I am simply wondering which tag was awarded to SFW. I am sure you wouldn't want SFW to take credit for another group auctioning off a tag would you.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Birdman, OMG some logic? 100% agree but a lot of people fail to see the 90% and the good that it does for wildlife. They are so focused on the 10% going to the groups for admin, work etc..... They are so full of spite and worried sick about the 10% that they are blinded and fail to see any of the good. I guess they assume that everyone should work for free or perhaps wildlife should just conserve itself. Who is going to do this work and conservation. The DWR?
o maybe some MM volunteers? Heck no, I guarantee most people here would grab a shovel or maybe write a small check in the name of conservation but not every weekend, not a check every week to get stuff done. Pretty soon everyone will want to be compensated for their time. Why because its WORK! So ya 10% that seems to be the focus here that whopping 10% that goes back to the groups. Thats the big problem or conflict? really...... You guys sit here and say how greedy these groups are but then listen to yourselves bock about the 10% going to the groups that are doing the WORK. Makes no sense, but then again not much does here anyways so I guess its all good. RIP AWAY. Doing great things together.......not!
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

You are right utah400. The Arizona tags have been between MDF and SFW as have the other tags depending on the year. I can not tell you which is which as I have not paid attention just know that they are at the expo each year. Some come to SFW and some to MDF.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Birdman

I am asking about Arizona Tags. You claimed that SFW has been giving back 100% of the money for their Arizona tags.

>"As for the Arizona tags,
>even SFW has been giving
>back 100% of the money.
> That is the way
>it works in Arizona so
>nothing new. "


These are the Arizona Special Commissioner tags for the past few years. I dont see SFW anywhere.

http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/documents/SpecialTagAwardsJune2012Comm.mtg.pdf

http://www.azgfd.gov/eservices/documents/specialbiggametags.pdf


It looks like both AZ tags at the last auction were MDF tags. So can you please tell when SFW has ever been awarded a Arizona tag to auction? I don't believe it has ever happened but I have been wrong before. Please help me figure this one out.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Utah400, Maybe I take the tags that are at the expo as a group tag between SFW and MDF. I do not have the answer as to who the tags have been issued to over the last 7 years. I am also not trying to destroy an organization or a person like you are. I am concerned about wildlife and fishing and making it better in the State of Utah. If you want to find fault in every statement made so be it. You knew what I was talking about. I have answered your questions as best that I could.
 
RE: RMEF WAIVES REVENUE FROM NATIONAL CONVENTION AND CALLS FOR INCREASED TRANSPARENCY FROM ALL WILDLIFE GROUPS

Birdman,

I am simply trying to set the record straight. I don't trust SFW. It is pretty simple. You claim SFW returned 100% of the money from their Arizona Tags. I ask which tags and you said "Every year Arizona has tags that are auctioned off at the Expo. Those tags require 100% of the money go back to Arizona." I question which ones and you say "The Arizona tags have been between MDF and SFW as have the other tags depending on the year." I again ask which tags were given to SFW and you say "The Arizona tags have been between MDF and SFW as have the other tags depending on the year. I cannot tell you which is which as I have not paid attention just know that they are at the expo each year. Some come to SFW and some to MDF." I then provide a link that shows the last two years of Arizona Tags with no tags going to SFW and you claim I am trying to destroy an organization or a person. I am simply asking you to clarify which Arizona tag was awarded to SFW (like you claimed) wherein SFW returned 100%.

Just admit that you were a little fast and loose with your facts when you said:

"As for the Arizona tags, even SFW has been giving back 100% of the money. That is the way it works in Arizona so nothing new."

SFW has not received an Arizona tag so they have never returned 100% back to Arizona. Would you be ok with me saying SFW has never complied with the rules of Arizona Tags in returning 100%? Since they haven't received a tag they have not returned 100%. Also just for clarification in your first post you never mentioned the expo. It was only brought up after I asked which tags. I originally had no idea that you were talking about the expo. Please don't represent that SFW has received tags from Arizona when they haven't.
 

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