S.F.W.

broadfork

Active Member
Messages
174
I was wondering what do you guys think about S.F.W. Is it worth joining up, or would you suggest I sign up with a different organization
 

broadfork

Active Member
Messages
174
I was wondering what do you guys think about S.F.W. Is it worth joining up, or would you suggest I sign up with a different organization
 
R

Rackcrawler

Guest
Single Female White?


Tom
A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.
 
R

Rackcrawler

Guest
Single Female White?


Tom
A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.
 
N

NeverStopHuntin

Guest
I wouldn't. I would go into detail on all the reasons not to join them but my post would just get nuked. So i'll leave it at that.
 
N

NeverStopHuntin

Guest
I wouldn't. I would go into detail on all the reasons not to join them but my post would just get nuked. So i'll leave it at that.
 
D

doityourself

Guest
I'm a part of it here in Cache Valley. I feel that there are a lot of good things that go on. If you are interested in helping the wildlife of the state, you will do more good joining than not. There will be pros and cons either way, some guys think it's a big joke, but personally I can tell you that a lot of guys spend countless hours trying to improve the hunting here in Utah. So take it for what it's worth. I don't regret helping out at all.
 
D

doityourself

Guest
I'm a part of it here in Cache Valley. I feel that there are a lot of good things that go on. If you are interested in helping the wildlife of the state, you will do more good joining than not. There will be pros and cons either way, some guys think it's a big joke, but personally I can tell you that a lot of guys spend countless hours trying to improve the hunting here in Utah. So take it for what it's worth. I don't regret helping out at all.
 

Triple_BB

Very Active Member
Messages
1,797
Here in Wyoming, I have no use for the oufitter industry given that they've sued for more licenses, pushed for set asides and were the reason for the no non residents in the wilderness law. And yet SFW Wyoming has cozied up with these folks in the past. At one time the president of the Wyoming Outfitters Association stated what a great group SFW was or some words to that effect. That outta tell you something. I'd give money to a pro lezbo/gay rights group before I'd send a dollar to those clowns...
 

Triple_BB

Very Active Member
Messages
1,797
Here in Wyoming, I have no use for the oufitter industry given that they've sued for more licenses, pushed for set asides and were the reason for the no non residents in the wilderness law. And yet SFW Wyoming has cozied up with these folks in the past. At one time the president of the Wyoming Outfitters Association stated what a great group SFW was or some words to that effect. That outta tell you something. I'd give money to a pro lezbo/gay rights group before I'd send a dollar to those clowns...
 

AWHOLELOTTABULL

Long Time Member
Messages
4,394
They have done a lot in the state of Utah for wildlife. I know that there are a lot of negative things said about SFW but they really have done the "dirty work" when it comes to wildlife. If left to our own DWR we would be hunting trophy squirels in this state. I don't agree with everything that is said and done within the SFW organization nor would I with any organization but they do get things done. I do know one thing....it beats the hell out of sitting home and pouting about it. There are A LOT of people that join and don't do anything or participate in projects. I can promise you one thing, if you do join and you do get out and actually put on a pair of gloves, you can't help but be impressed by what gets done. This is just my oppinion but I used to be one that sat on the outside and complained. Once I got involved it was a totally different ball game. Besides, if you have a question or a problem with something they have said or done they will respond. I have not once been shunned or given the padded answer to any of my concerns.



It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 

AWHOLELOTTABULL

Long Time Member
Messages
4,394
They have done a lot in the state of Utah for wildlife. I know that there are a lot of negative things said about SFW but they really have done the "dirty work" when it comes to wildlife. If left to our own DWR we would be hunting trophy squirels in this state. I don't agree with everything that is said and done within the SFW organization nor would I with any organization but they do get things done. I do know one thing....it beats the hell out of sitting home and pouting about it. There are A LOT of people that join and don't do anything or participate in projects. I can promise you one thing, if you do join and you do get out and actually put on a pair of gloves, you can't help but be impressed by what gets done. This is just my oppinion but I used to be one that sat on the outside and complained. Once I got involved it was a totally different ball game. Besides, if you have a question or a problem with something they have said or done they will respond. I have not once been shunned or given the padded answer to any of my concerns.



It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 

swbuckmaster

Long Time Member
Messages
5,004
+1
If you are not a member of a hunting group then you wont have a dang thing to say in this state when it comes to game managment.
 

swbuckmaster

Long Time Member
Messages
5,004
+1
If you are not a member of a hunting group then you wont have a dang thing to say in this state when it comes to game managment.
 
3

30inchbuck

Guest
Only group out there that gets politically involved. The accomplishments they have are unmatched.

Most people set on the sidelines and complain - but if you get involved you see things in a different light.

I was very hesitant about them at the beginning but after joining I became a lifetime member in NM.
 
3

30inchbuck

Guest
Only group out there that gets politically involved. The accomplishments they have are unmatched.

Most people set on the sidelines and complain - but if you get involved you see things in a different light.

I was very hesitant about them at the beginning but after joining I became a lifetime member in NM.
 

littlebighorn

Long Time Member
Messages
4,103
SFW has plenty of enemies because they actually put their money and clout where it counts, to help wildlife!
I for one think we get more bang for our buck from them than we do any other organization. Most of what I hear bad about SFW seems to be jealousy or envy from those who have given a little but have yet to get a special tag from their efforts. One has to keep in mind that joining any organization is about giving of yourself and your resources to help the cause, which is wildlife. If you happen to get something out of it for yourself, well that is icing on the cake. I belong to SFW, and I would encourage others to join as well. IMO
 

littlebighorn

Long Time Member
Messages
4,103
SFW has plenty of enemies because they actually put their money and clout where it counts, to help wildlife!
I for one think we get more bang for our buck from them than we do any other organization. Most of what I hear bad about SFW seems to be jealousy or envy from those who have given a little but have yet to get a special tag from their efforts. One has to keep in mind that joining any organization is about giving of yourself and your resources to help the cause, which is wildlife. If you happen to get something out of it for yourself, well that is icing on the cake. I belong to SFW, and I would encourage others to join as well. IMO
 
F

fishbio

Guest
Send your money somewhere else. RMEF, MDF, TRCP, BCHA to name a few. Organizations that have a meaningful committment to conservation and hunting. Not just "We want bigger bucks and bigger bulls".
 
F

fishbio

Guest
Send your money somewhere else. RMEF, MDF, TRCP, BCHA to name a few. Organizations that have a meaningful committment to conservation and hunting. Not just "We want bigger bucks and bigger bulls".
 

Triple_BB

Very Active Member
Messages
1,797
LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-09 AT 02:06PM (MST)[p]Here in Wyoming the Wyoming Wildlife Federation is where I put my money. RMEF is second followed by DU and a few others. For you non rezzy's who moan about the wilderness guide law and belong to SFW, start pitching a bee-atch to yer leaders and tell them to start pushing to get the law changed. If not, don't complain, your folks support the group that got that law put into place...
 

Triple_BB

Very Active Member
Messages
1,797
LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-09 AT 02:06PM (MST)[p]Here in Wyoming the Wyoming Wildlife Federation is where I put my money. RMEF is second followed by DU and a few others. For you non rezzy's who moan about the wilderness guide law and belong to SFW, start pitching a bee-atch to yer leaders and tell them to start pushing to get the law changed. If not, don't complain, your folks support the group that got that law put into place...
 

broadfork

Active Member
Messages
174
I was wondering if SFW supports bowhunters, or if it was all about the rifle guys. I heard that they don't like all the archery perks in Utah and want to eliminate some of the extended seasons. Is this true
 

broadfork

Active Member
Messages
174
I was wondering if SFW supports bowhunters, or if it was all about the rifle guys. I heard that they don't like all the archery perks in Utah and want to eliminate some of the extended seasons. Is this true
 
D

dkpeay

Guest
Outdoor Life named SFW as one of the leading conservation and sportsmen organizations in the country.

the Utah DWR gave SFW the FIRST Kevin Conway Habitat Conservatoin Award - for not only working with the Bush Administration to get the process established, but also for getting major funding for the effort.

Over the past 15 years, SFW has helped increase funding for Conservation by over $150 Millon, including the $13 Million, 150,000 plus acres of year of habitat restoration efforts.

We own more critical deer winter range than any sportsmen group in the state, and have fought the land use and political wars for transplaning elk, deer, moose, bighorn sheep, antelope and even the last Bison transplant in teh book cliffs.

SFW was a Major player in gettinng wolves delisted. SFW was one of two groups in the court room, fighting 24 anti-hunting groups to stop wolf managment, lost that one, but the figtht is still on, on that one.

SFW Utah also played significant if not major role in establising Utah's tropy quality hunting programs, rebuilding the deer herds on the Henry Mts. and Book Cliffs, and increasing buck doe ratios on the general season public lands.

If you want to restore and protect habitat, see larger herds of elk, deer, moose, bison, wild turkey, wild sheep, mt. goats, better fishing - fish hatcheries repaired, in stream flow legislation passed, have diverse hunting experiences - some quality, some recreatoin, and believe in fighting the anti-hunters who know the key to reduce hunting by 80%, then you should consider joining SFW.

If you believe that it all just happens, or you are entitled to everything, because it should be free, and somehow the government just magically takes care of everything, or it all just happens naturally, you probably don't want to be a part of SFW.

Will answer some questions about issues, etc.

don Peay
Founder SFW
 
D

dkpeay

Guest
Outdoor Life named SFW as one of the leading conservation and sportsmen organizations in the country.

the Utah DWR gave SFW the FIRST Kevin Conway Habitat Conservatoin Award - for not only working with the Bush Administration to get the process established, but also for getting major funding for the effort.

Over the past 15 years, SFW has helped increase funding for Conservation by over $150 Millon, including the $13 Million, 150,000 plus acres of year of habitat restoration efforts.

We own more critical deer winter range than any sportsmen group in the state, and have fought the land use and political wars for transplaning elk, deer, moose, bighorn sheep, antelope and even the last Bison transplant in teh book cliffs.

SFW was a Major player in gettinng wolves delisted. SFW was one of two groups in the court room, fighting 24 anti-hunting groups to stop wolf managment, lost that one, but the figtht is still on, on that one.

SFW Utah also played significant if not major role in establising Utah's tropy quality hunting programs, rebuilding the deer herds on the Henry Mts. and Book Cliffs, and increasing buck doe ratios on the general season public lands.

If you want to restore and protect habitat, see larger herds of elk, deer, moose, bison, wild turkey, wild sheep, mt. goats, better fishing - fish hatcheries repaired, in stream flow legislation passed, have diverse hunting experiences - some quality, some recreatoin, and believe in fighting the anti-hunters who know the key to reduce hunting by 80%, then you should consider joining SFW.

If you believe that it all just happens, or you are entitled to everything, because it should be free, and somehow the government just magically takes care of everything, or it all just happens naturally, you probably don't want to be a part of SFW.

Will answer some questions about issues, etc.

don Peay
Founder SFW
 

out4elk

Active Member
Messages
491
+1 AWLB

I don't agree with everything they have done but if you look into what they have done for habitat in Utah alone it is not hard to justify the money you spend on a membership and a banquet or two.

?Here?s to the hero's that Git-R-Done!!?
 

out4elk

Active Member
Messages
491
+1 AWLB

I don't agree with everything they have done but if you look into what they have done for habitat in Utah alone it is not hard to justify the money you spend on a membership and a banquet or two.

?Here?s to the hero's that Git-R-Done!!?
 

woodruffhunter

Long Time Member
Messages
3,211
LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-09 AT 10:28PM (MST)[p]I support SFW and would encourage others to do so as well. I used to think that if an organization didn't agree with me 100%, then I should not support them.

This attitude couldn't have been further from the truth. The fact is, I don't always agree with everything SFW does. However, I agree with most of what they DO support/do.

How many other organizations take critism, get on this board, and explain their position? I have emailed several of their members with ideas and I have always got a response and also support.

It sure was great to see SFW step up last year and donate time/feed/resources to help our deer up here in Rich County. There was more than 1 rancher up here that said the received support from SFW and helped the starving deer herd.

Before any of you so called "critics" throw critisism to SFW, do some research on the good they have done. You might surprise yourself.
 

woodruffhunter

Long Time Member
Messages
3,211
LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-09 AT 10:28PM (MST)[p]I support SFW and would encourage others to do so as well. I used to think that if an organization didn't agree with me 100%, then I should not support them.

This attitude couldn't have been further from the truth. The fact is, I don't always agree with everything SFW does. However, I agree with most of what they DO support/do.

How many other organizations take critism, get on this board, and explain their position? I have emailed several of their members with ideas and I have always got a response and also support.

It sure was great to see SFW step up last year and donate time/feed/resources to help our deer up here in Rich County. There was more than 1 rancher up here that said the received support from SFW and helped the starving deer herd.

Before any of you so called "critics" throw critisism to SFW, do some research on the good they have done. You might surprise yourself.
 
H

HKShooter

Guest
TripBB.

No non residents in the Wyoming Wilderness because of SFW???. Is that true?...cause I'm on the fence here.

Thanks for explaining,

HK
 
H

HKShooter

Guest
TripBB.

No non residents in the Wyoming Wilderness because of SFW???. Is that true?...cause I'm on the fence here.

Thanks for explaining,

HK
 

2lumpy

Long Time Member
Messages
3,305
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-09 AT 01:11AM (MST)[p]I've never been part of any organization that accomplished anything worthwhile that didn't get resistance from part of the population, for countless different reasons.

I've served on numerous and diverse boards and committees in Utah. By diverse, I mean the Utah Wildlife Federation Board, the UCET Board (Utah Coalition of Educational Technology), the Utah Muzzleloader Association, the Utah State School Board selection committee, the Sevier Wildlife Federation, the Sevier County University Center Committee and the Southern Utah Wildlife RAC, the Richfield Chapter of Rotary International, etc. (I only share that in a feeble attempt to justify my comments. I've taken a few bullets over the years. I've had a few messages nailed to my front door!)

I've had a little exposure to the efforts and frustrations associated with helping each of these groups battle for worthwhile change. Regardless of the worthiness of their effort there are always individuals who see things differently from how we see the world. We all have unique wants and needs and we press for those wants and needs.

Some folks have personal wants while others want things for the entire community and are willing to set their personal needs aside for the betterment of their friends and neighbors. For example, some people never golf but will get behind a community effort to build a golf course because they believe it is a good thing for their community. They'll even go so far as to vote to raise their own taxes to pay for it because they believe a golf course benefits everyone in the community, even though they personally never swing a club. Some fight against it because they don't golf, or they may golf but they will never vote for a tax increase regardless of how the taxes will be spent. If your with a group that is attempting to build a golf course your going to hear from all sides, some speak really loud and with a great deal of emotion.

Bottom line. if your dog is in the fight, he's going to get bit.

As others have said SFW is in the fight. They are attempting to do something and some will support them, others will not, for a hundred different reasons.

When I like something SFW is doing, i tell them, when I don't like it, I tell them. I believe I have that right as a member. Sometimes I hear back from them and sometimes I don't but I always let them know what I think and express my opinions, regardless of whether I hear back or not.

I'll will say this, if you love hunting and fishing you had better get behind some wildlife organization, SFW, MDF. RMEF, SCI, FNAWS etc. etc. because there are huge numbers of well healed organizations that detest you and what you stand for. They are absolutely intent on eating your lunch. I moved to Utah 34 years ago and I've been a member of many wildlife organizations during those year. I've put my time, effort and hard to come by dollars into dozens of wildlife fund raising efforts.

So what's my point. Right now, whether you like it or not. whether you agree with their style or their individual personalities, or they "whatever", SFW and Don Peay are committed to public hunting and fishing in the Western States. They are presently "the point of the spear". SFW seem to believe the best way to do that is by leveraging political funding through private donations that come be way of the wildlife resource itself. More specifically, they believe investing a few animals (some think too many) is the best way to raise money which they use to leverage greater funding to put more wildlife in the field for you and I.

Leveraging smaller amounts of money to generate larger amounts not a new concept, the good guys all do the same thing (FW, MDF. RMEF, SCI,FNAWS etc.), so do the bad guys (PETA, Friends of Animals. all the anti's). Some of these groups raise their money through tele-marketers, some do it by tricking widows into donating, etc. etc.

SFW does it their way and we all know what their way is. Like it or not, its their way and it seems to be working, at least it is for the present. Many must like what they are doing. A few must believe the leverage they get from their donation (tag purchase) is worth the donation. I don't believe people smart enough to manage the kind of money that allows them to spend 50 to two hundred thousand dollars for a deer tag are foolish enough to empower SFW if they simply wanted to harvest a trophy buck. They know they are funding the leverage and they know we get all get the benefit of their leveraged money. Personally have a hard time believing people would give SFW $205,000 just because they think Don Peay is a likable guy.

Are SFW's efforts working?

Since 1993 when SFW started its quest: Do we have more elk? Yes. Do we have more turkey? Yes. Do we have more buffalo? Yes. Do we more mountain goats? Yes. Do we have more sheep? Yes. Do we have more migrator game? Yes. Do we have more wildlife habitat? Yes. Do sportsmen have a greatest voice at the legislative level of government? Yes. Does having a greater political voice enhance public hunting and fishing? Yes. Can we credit SFW? Yes. Have SFW made everyone happy? No. Do we have more deer? No. Do we have more upland game? No. Do we have more public access? No. Are they prefect in their efforts or beliefs? No.

Who has done more? Who is working harder? Who is out their every day ignoring political correctness and fighting the bad guys? Who stands up to the DWR, when they can. (A smart warrior will pick the fights he thinks he can win and hides up when he can't win. There are a lot a dead soldiers that picked the wrong time and place to fight. The cardinal rule of winning the war is staying alive, so.....as they say....... pick your fights wisely.) Who fights U.S. Fish and Wildlife. Who puts hunting and fishing in the sporting section of the daily newspapers? Who do the television stations interview then there's a sportsmen's wildlife issue? Who takes the bullet and get the hate mail everyday, even from those that are reaping the rewards.

To answer the original question, in my opinion, send SFW your membership money and ask what pile of poop you can stick your shovel in. For me, it join or watch, worry and whine.


DC
 

2lumpy

Long Time Member
Messages
3,305
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-09 AT 01:11AM (MST)[p]I've never been part of any organization that accomplished anything worthwhile that didn't get resistance from part of the population, for countless different reasons.

I've served on numerous and diverse boards and committees in Utah. By diverse, I mean the Utah Wildlife Federation Board, the UCET Board (Utah Coalition of Educational Technology), the Utah Muzzleloader Association, the Utah State School Board selection committee, the Sevier Wildlife Federation, the Sevier County University Center Committee and the Southern Utah Wildlife RAC, the Richfield Chapter of Rotary International, etc. (I only share that in a feeble attempt to justify my comments. I've taken a few bullets over the years. I've had a few messages nailed to my front door!)

I've had a little exposure to the efforts and frustrations associated with helping each of these groups battle for worthwhile change. Regardless of the worthiness of their effort there are always individuals who see things differently from how we see the world. We all have unique wants and needs and we press for those wants and needs.

Some folks have personal wants while others want things for the entire community and are willing to set their personal needs aside for the betterment of their friends and neighbors. For example, some people never golf but will get behind a community effort to build a golf course because they believe it is a good thing for their community. They'll even go so far as to vote to raise their own taxes to pay for it because they believe a golf course benefits everyone in the community, even though they personally never swing a club. Some fight against it because they don't golf, or they may golf but they will never vote for a tax increase regardless of how the taxes will be spent. If your with a group that is attempting to build a golf course your going to hear from all sides, some speak really loud and with a great deal of emotion.

Bottom line. if your dog is in the fight, he's going to get bit.

As others have said SFW is in the fight. They are attempting to do something and some will support them, others will not, for a hundred different reasons.

When I like something SFW is doing, i tell them, when I don't like it, I tell them. I believe I have that right as a member. Sometimes I hear back from them and sometimes I don't but I always let them know what I think and express my opinions, regardless of whether I hear back or not.

I'll will say this, if you love hunting and fishing you had better get behind some wildlife organization, SFW, MDF. RMEF, SCI, FNAWS etc. etc. because there are huge numbers of well healed organizations that detest you and what you stand for. They are absolutely intent on eating your lunch. I moved to Utah 34 years ago and I've been a member of many wildlife organizations during those year. I've put my time, effort and hard to come by dollars into dozens of wildlife fund raising efforts.

So what's my point. Right now, whether you like it or not. whether you agree with their style or their individual personalities, or they "whatever", SFW and Don Peay are committed to public hunting and fishing in the Western States. They are presently "the point of the spear". SFW seem to believe the best way to do that is by leveraging political funding through private donations that come be way of the wildlife resource itself. More specifically, they believe investing a few animals (some think too many) is the best way to raise money which they use to leverage greater funding to put more wildlife in the field for you and I.

Leveraging smaller amounts of money to generate larger amounts not a new concept, the good guys all do the same thing (FW, MDF. RMEF, SCI,FNAWS etc.), so do the bad guys (PETA, Friends of Animals. all the anti's). Some of these groups raise their money through tele-marketers, some do it by tricking widows into donating, etc. etc.

SFW does it their way and we all know what their way is. Like it or not, its their way and it seems to be working, at least it is for the present. Many must like what they are doing. A few must believe the leverage they get from their donation (tag purchase) is worth the donation. I don't believe people smart enough to manage the kind of money that allows them to spend 50 to two hundred thousand dollars for a deer tag are foolish enough to empower SFW if they simply wanted to harvest a trophy buck. They know they are funding the leverage and they know we get all get the benefit of their leveraged money. Personally have a hard time believing people would give SFW $205,000 just because they think Don Peay is a likable guy.

Are SFW's efforts working?

Since 1993 when SFW started its quest: Do we have more elk? Yes. Do we have more turkey? Yes. Do we have more buffalo? Yes. Do we more mountain goats? Yes. Do we have more sheep? Yes. Do we have more migrator game? Yes. Do we have more wildlife habitat? Yes. Do sportsmen have a greatest voice at the legislative level of government? Yes. Does having a greater political voice enhance public hunting and fishing? Yes. Can we credit SFW? Yes. Have SFW made everyone happy? No. Do we have more deer? No. Do we have more upland game? No. Do we have more public access? No. Are they prefect in their efforts or beliefs? No.

Who has done more? Who is working harder? Who is out their every day ignoring political correctness and fighting the bad guys? Who stands up to the DWR, when they can. (A smart warrior will pick the fights he thinks he can win and hides up when he can't win. There are a lot a dead soldiers that picked the wrong time and place to fight. The cardinal rule of winning the war is staying alive, so.....as they say....... pick your fights wisely.) Who fights U.S. Fish and Wildlife. Who puts hunting and fishing in the sporting section of the daily newspapers? Who do the television stations interview then there's a sportsmen's wildlife issue? Who takes the bullet and get the hate mail everyday, even from those that are reaping the rewards.

To answer the original question, in my opinion, send SFW your membership money and ask what pile of poop you can stick your shovel in. For me, it join or watch, worry and whine.


DC
 
D

dkpeay

Guest
DC,

you are a very smart man, and can articulate the very compliacted and complex issues we all face as sportsmen. i wish it was easy and simple,but it is not. And, unfortunately, those who believe it is, are the biggest critics of SFW.

I don't even agree with more than 80% of what SFW or the NRA does, but obviously, as you so well point out, being the tip of the spear is tough. I had a very interesting conversation with Marcus Lutrell, Lone Survivor of the horrific fight between 200 Taliban warriors and 4 Navy seals. Marcus and the military are teh true warriors, who played the game for keeps, and lived or died. However, Marcus also was very supportive of SFW and other groups who engange in the political wars, cultural wars within the US. and he acknolwledged just how nasty these political fights are. I have spoken to many military men, who are very frustrated that the risked their lives, and many of their friends died, or have been permanently wounded, and then so few Americans are willing to engange in the interal US political battles to keep what they and we all love. There is a HUGE cultural war in America whether we stay a traditional country, or do we beome a socialistic, godless society. And, unfortunately, a handful of very rich and greedy people on Wall Street helped turn this country against capitalism.

Just one simple issue. 100 Anti-hunting groups have asked President Obama to end all predator managment on federal lands. If they win that political war, hunting opportunity over time will be reduced 80 percent or more. Or, fish and game agencies will still try and sell the current number of tags, and sucess rates for two points and spikes will be ten percent, and we will be told how great it is to just be able to walk in the woods with a gun, seeing a big buck or bull, or having the chance to harvest one, that will be gone forever.

So, just one simple questoin, why isn't every sportsmen a member of at least one group, who is fighging this all important political fight ?

And DC, somehow, someway, we are going to fight mother nature, and find a way to increase deer herds. Obviously, there are some HUGE major enviromental circumstances that are not allowing deer to be what they were in the fifties and sixties. Just remember, in the twenties, there were NO deer in Utah, or they were so rare, if a rancher saw a track, they would follow it for days just to see a deer - Waldo Wilcox -.

so, being the eternal optimist, i will say that stopping the precipitous slide for mule deer in utah is a partial victory. We are continuously shoring up our resources, and plotting another run at the proverbial San Juan Hill to win the deer vicotry as well.

SFW continuously seeks everyones opinions, members, sportsmen on this website, etc, and then we take a lot of complex information, and try and find the best solutions, and then get them done. There is a fifteen person board who makes the final decision, then it is my job to figure out a way to try and get them done. We work with Mule Deer Foundation members, NWTF members, etc when we can.

As far as the upland game, SFW decided to forget the fight for pheasants in utah. We focused on helping the NWTF and DWR on Wild turkeys. and that has been a huge sucess. why this strategy ? turkeys are public land birds, pheasants are by and large private land birds. So, to spend a lot of our time and money to rebuild pheasants, and then only the private landowner gets teh benefit is not the best use of our limited resources.

and, while on the point, the critics of SFW within the private land community, who hate public land and the government, lets admit, SFW and others have been able to make improvements on the public lands within the cumbersome public process, yet the private landowners have by and large failed to rebuild the pheasant resource on the private lands.

SFW made the calculation, that with our limited resources and manpower, pheasants were not our fight. Go to Nebraska, Norht Dakota, etc, or go to a bird farm in utah.

but, herein again, if more than just ten percent of the hunters would jump on the train, we would have more money and resources to do more things.

At any rate, if you all want to see who the true warriors are, and the true cost of freedom is, watch HBO tonight at eight pm. Taking Chance, the story of a young 19 year old kid who gave his life, so we have the freedom to debate all this relatively small issues. And find, any other group of sportsmen, more than SFW, who put their money where their mouth is supporting these true american heros, and i will buy everyone on MM lunch !

glad to answer any questions on issues, i will not get into teh personal bashing stuff.

don
 
D

dkpeay

Guest
DC,

you are a very smart man, and can articulate the very compliacted and complex issues we all face as sportsmen. i wish it was easy and simple,but it is not. And, unfortunately, those who believe it is, are the biggest critics of SFW.

I don't even agree with more than 80% of what SFW or the NRA does, but obviously, as you so well point out, being the tip of the spear is tough. I had a very interesting conversation with Marcus Lutrell, Lone Survivor of the horrific fight between 200 Taliban warriors and 4 Navy seals. Marcus and the military are teh true warriors, who played the game for keeps, and lived or died. However, Marcus also was very supportive of SFW and other groups who engange in the political wars, cultural wars within the US. and he acknolwledged just how nasty these political fights are. I have spoken to many military men, who are very frustrated that the risked their lives, and many of their friends died, or have been permanently wounded, and then so few Americans are willing to engange in the interal US political battles to keep what they and we all love. There is a HUGE cultural war in America whether we stay a traditional country, or do we beome a socialistic, godless society. And, unfortunately, a handful of very rich and greedy people on Wall Street helped turn this country against capitalism.

Just one simple issue. 100 Anti-hunting groups have asked President Obama to end all predator managment on federal lands. If they win that political war, hunting opportunity over time will be reduced 80 percent or more. Or, fish and game agencies will still try and sell the current number of tags, and sucess rates for two points and spikes will be ten percent, and we will be told how great it is to just be able to walk in the woods with a gun, seeing a big buck or bull, or having the chance to harvest one, that will be gone forever.

So, just one simple questoin, why isn't every sportsmen a member of at least one group, who is fighging this all important political fight ?

And DC, somehow, someway, we are going to fight mother nature, and find a way to increase deer herds. Obviously, there are some HUGE major enviromental circumstances that are not allowing deer to be what they were in the fifties and sixties. Just remember, in the twenties, there were NO deer in Utah, or they were so rare, if a rancher saw a track, they would follow it for days just to see a deer - Waldo Wilcox -.

so, being the eternal optimist, i will say that stopping the precipitous slide for mule deer in utah is a partial victory. We are continuously shoring up our resources, and plotting another run at the proverbial San Juan Hill to win the deer vicotry as well.

SFW continuously seeks everyones opinions, members, sportsmen on this website, etc, and then we take a lot of complex information, and try and find the best solutions, and then get them done. There is a fifteen person board who makes the final decision, then it is my job to figure out a way to try and get them done. We work with Mule Deer Foundation members, NWTF members, etc when we can.

As far as the upland game, SFW decided to forget the fight for pheasants in utah. We focused on helping the NWTF and DWR on Wild turkeys. and that has been a huge sucess. why this strategy ? turkeys are public land birds, pheasants are by and large private land birds. So, to spend a lot of our time and money to rebuild pheasants, and then only the private landowner gets teh benefit is not the best use of our limited resources.

and, while on the point, the critics of SFW within the private land community, who hate public land and the government, lets admit, SFW and others have been able to make improvements on the public lands within the cumbersome public process, yet the private landowners have by and large failed to rebuild the pheasant resource on the private lands.

SFW made the calculation, that with our limited resources and manpower, pheasants were not our fight. Go to Nebraska, Norht Dakota, etc, or go to a bird farm in utah.

but, herein again, if more than just ten percent of the hunters would jump on the train, we would have more money and resources to do more things.

At any rate, if you all want to see who the true warriors are, and the true cost of freedom is, watch HBO tonight at eight pm. Taking Chance, the story of a young 19 year old kid who gave his life, so we have the freedom to debate all this relatively small issues. And find, any other group of sportsmen, more than SFW, who put their money where their mouth is supporting these true american heros, and i will buy everyone on MM lunch !

glad to answer any questions on issues, i will not get into teh personal bashing stuff.

don
 

carbonnation

Active Member
Messages
301
I've been a member for a while now and can't say that I have always agreed with SFW. However, if you don't like what they are doing or have done, there is little you can do about it from the outside looking in. If you truely want to make a differance, it has to come from within. So my adivce to all of the haters on this site is put up or shut up. If you don't like SFW, join, get active and make some changes. Otherwise you are no differant than a tree hugger in New York calling for the closure and "preservation" of public land they have and will never see or use.

I just want to be friends.
 

carbonnation

Active Member
Messages
301
I've been a member for a while now and can't say that I have always agreed with SFW. However, if you don't like what they are doing or have done, there is little you can do about it from the outside looking in. If you truely want to make a differance, it has to come from within. So my adivce to all of the haters on this site is put up or shut up. If you don't like SFW, join, get active and make some changes. Otherwise you are no differant than a tree hugger in New York calling for the closure and "preservation" of public land they have and will never see or use.

I just want to be friends.
 
B

Brine

Guest
2Lumpy,

Very well said!! Congratulations on your expo Pauns deer tag.
 
B

Brine

Guest
2Lumpy,

Very well said!! Congratulations on your expo Pauns deer tag.
 

Silentstalker

Very Active Member
Messages
2,864
2 Lumpy,

For the most part I agree with your post as it is mostly truth. SFW raises tons of money for habitat and a portion of that money for themselves. I believe 10%. 10% of millions is a lot of money from a public resource. Please correct me if I am wrong on that stat. The reason people invest $200,000 on a tag is #1 they have that kind of money to begin with, and #2 it makes for a nice little tax right off. Don't get me wrong, I would be the 1st in line to buy a tag if I could. I just feel we give too many. We could raise the same $$ amount with less tags as it up's the demand for them.



Anyways, On to the question at hand, I applaud SFW's efforts for all the front line work they do. Many groups will not get in the fight. For that I am ashamed of those groups. Thank you SFW for your work on promoting hunting and delisting wolves.

My main beef with them is they have shown themselves to be on the front line of decreasing opportunity for Bowhunters in the state of Utah. (I reference the loss of the AR 301, loss of the statewide archery, verbally shooting down proposals at the RAC meetings etc.) As long as they support this way of thinking I will never be a member. I will gladly give my donations to other organizations who do similar things as far as conservation is concerned.

If you decide to join SFW, do as many have suggested, get involved, voice your opinions, and get your hands dirty. You will be a member of a group filled with great individuals. If you choose not to join them, join another and do the same thing. The wildlife and hunting need all of us on their side! Have a great day.

Chad
 

Silentstalker

Very Active Member
Messages
2,864
2 Lumpy,

For the most part I agree with your post as it is mostly truth. SFW raises tons of money for habitat and a portion of that money for themselves. I believe 10%. 10% of millions is a lot of money from a public resource. Please correct me if I am wrong on that stat. The reason people invest $200,000 on a tag is #1 they have that kind of money to begin with, and #2 it makes for a nice little tax right off. Don't get me wrong, I would be the 1st in line to buy a tag if I could. I just feel we give too many. We could raise the same $$ amount with less tags as it up's the demand for them.



Anyways, On to the question at hand, I applaud SFW's efforts for all the front line work they do. Many groups will not get in the fight. For that I am ashamed of those groups. Thank you SFW for your work on promoting hunting and delisting wolves.

My main beef with them is they have shown themselves to be on the front line of decreasing opportunity for Bowhunters in the state of Utah. (I reference the loss of the AR 301, loss of the statewide archery, verbally shooting down proposals at the RAC meetings etc.) As long as they support this way of thinking I will never be a member. I will gladly give my donations to other organizations who do similar things as far as conservation is concerned.

If you decide to join SFW, do as many have suggested, get involved, voice your opinions, and get your hands dirty. You will be a member of a group filled with great individuals. If you choose not to join them, join another and do the same thing. The wildlife and hunting need all of us on their side! Have a great day.

Chad
 

fullcry

Active Member
Messages
584
Hey Don, not to high jack this thread,but Is SFW for or against the bill to block access to rivers and streams in Utah...
 

fullcry

Active Member
Messages
584
Hey Don, not to high jack this thread,but Is SFW for or against the bill to block access to rivers and streams in Utah...
 

eyeguard

Active Member
Messages
594
Hi Don,

First of all, I will admit that I'm very impressed with SFW and what it has done for wildlife, habitat, and the state of Utah. I have seriously thought about joining for the last 2 years. However, there is one point I would like to make, and one issue I need resolved prior to that taking place.

First, SFW needs to realize that while they are a key player in the state, they don't speak for ALL of Utah's sportsmen (and women). SFW needs to understand that what they say doesn't go for the entire state, and shouldn't speak at the RACs as the governing authority for the state. I've heard them do this time and again where they will speak from a particular stance, and say they represent the state with their view. Not true, and I think this is why many have a problem with the organization.

Second, I have requested multiple times for a paper trail as to where my $$$ would be used by the organization, and I haven't ever gotten a response. Why is that? I'm particularly interested in how much a year the organization spends in Operation Costs (as I'm sure most people would have an interest in this as well). No so much as a 2nd thought. Hmm, if an organization that requires $ for membership can't show me where this $ is going, or being used... then I can't and won't become a member. Others on this site might say "Fine! Sit on the sidelines and pout, yada yada..." but I won't blindly throw money to a group that can't provide me with details (regardless of their cause and whether I'm in support of it).

This isn't meant to ruffle any feathers. I honestly hope you'll respond and provide me with the information I'm looking for or at least try to resolve the concerns I have. I care about Utah and it's wildlife and want to join a cause/organization I can trust and have faith in.

Sincerely,

Noel Slater (aka Eyeguard)

"A man can be hard to find in the mountains, but you're welcome at my fire anytime."
 

eyeguard

Active Member
Messages
594
Hi Don,

First of all, I will admit that I'm very impressed with SFW and what it has done for wildlife, habitat, and the state of Utah. I have seriously thought about joining for the last 2 years. However, there is one point I would like to make, and one issue I need resolved prior to that taking place.

First, SFW needs to realize that while they are a key player in the state, they don't speak for ALL of Utah's sportsmen (and women). SFW needs to understand that what they say doesn't go for the entire state, and shouldn't speak at the RACs as the governing authority for the state. I've heard them do this time and again where they will speak from a particular stance, and say they represent the state with their view. Not true, and I think this is why many have a problem with the organization.

Second, I have requested multiple times for a paper trail as to where my $$$ would be used by the organization, and I haven't ever gotten a response. Why is that? I'm particularly interested in how much a year the organization spends in Operation Costs (as I'm sure most people would have an interest in this as well). No so much as a 2nd thought. Hmm, if an organization that requires $ for membership can't show me where this $ is going, or being used... then I can't and won't become a member. Others on this site might say "Fine! Sit on the sidelines and pout, yada yada..." but I won't blindly throw money to a group that can't provide me with details (regardless of their cause and whether I'm in support of it).

This isn't meant to ruffle any feathers. I honestly hope you'll respond and provide me with the information I'm looking for or at least try to resolve the concerns I have. I care about Utah and it's wildlife and want to join a cause/organization I can trust and have faith in.

Sincerely,

Noel Slater (aka Eyeguard)

"A man can be hard to find in the mountains, but you're welcome at my fire anytime."
 
2

280remington

Guest
Peayday was a huge no-show at the Rally on the Capitol last Thursday. SFW needs to remove the FISH from its title. I guess he has thrown the waterfowl hunters under the bus as well. Rank and file fishermen and waterfowlers don't matter much to Peayday. That is obvious.
 
2

280remington

Guest
Peayday was a huge no-show at the Rally on the Capitol last Thursday. SFW needs to remove the FISH from its title. I guess he has thrown the waterfowl hunters under the bus as well. Rank and file fishermen and waterfowlers don't matter much to Peayday. That is obvious.
 
F

fishbio

Guest
...And, here in Wyoming SFWs greatest accomplishments to date have been promoting predator management and delivering hay to feedgrounds. Awesome. As stated before, I will continue to send my money elsewhere, to organizations with a realistic understanding of wildlife management and conservation and the role they play in preserving our hunting heritage.
 
F

fishbio

Guest
...And, here in Wyoming SFWs greatest accomplishments to date have been promoting predator management and delivering hay to feedgrounds. Awesome. As stated before, I will continue to send my money elsewhere, to organizations with a realistic understanding of wildlife management and conservation and the role they play in preserving our hunting heritage.
 
N

NeverStopHuntin

Guest
Interesting how Don is so quick to jump on this post and be the cheerleader for SFW but when he was specifically asked for-

1. The expo odds?

2. A report of where the money really goes?

3. Where is the 2010 expo?

Silence. . . .

I'm sure you're watching this thread Don, so here's your chance.
 
N

NeverStopHuntin

Guest
Interesting how Don is so quick to jump on this post and be the cheerleader for SFW but when he was specifically asked for-

1. The expo odds?

2. A report of where the money really goes?

3. Where is the 2010 expo?

Silence. . . .

I'm sure you're watching this thread Don, so here's your chance.
 
2

280remington

Guest
That's because he's like a politician.

To add question #4.

4. What is SFW's stance on HB 187? How come no involvement?
 
2

280remington

Guest
That's because he's like a politician.

To add question #4.

4. What is SFW's stance on HB 187? How come no involvement?
 
B

Brine

Guest
These last two years going to the Expo the one thing I found was that those people, I knew, were there for one reason only and that was to validate their draw applications. It seems obvious to me that way over 50% were there for one major reason the APPLICATION VALIDATION.

Those are your and my permits that have been given to SFW. If they are a good organization they should be fully tranparent and the draws should be 100% accurate, honest and verifiable.

I too, as the preceeding posts, would like to hear an accounting from Mr Peay, or at least it's "none of your business" type of answer.
 
B

Brine

Guest
These last two years going to the Expo the one thing I found was that those people, I knew, were there for one reason only and that was to validate their draw applications. It seems obvious to me that way over 50% were there for one major reason the APPLICATION VALIDATION.

Those are your and my permits that have been given to SFW. If they are a good organization they should be fully tranparent and the draws should be 100% accurate, honest and verifiable.

I too, as the preceeding posts, would like to hear an accounting from Mr Peay, or at least it's "none of your business" type of answer.
 

Gator

Long Time Member
Messages
17,080
Like I told Don before if he gets a deer fence up down in SE utah between Blanding and Monticello on hwy 191 to help the hundreds of deer killed each year and I would be happy to join.
I know it a small area but the huge amount of deer it would save is huge,But it not in one of the SFW places to help.
So I'm guessing I will be waiting awhile.

On the Wyo. Blowing Smokestack (SFW)he told me that they wouldn't come out on that issue because of all the other things they was fighting and they needed the outfitters to be on the same page as them.

Maybe if more of us join the BCH (Back country horseman)we could get a thing started on changing this.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 

Gator

Long Time Member
Messages
17,080
Like I told Don before if he gets a deer fence up down in SE utah between Blanding and Monticello on hwy 191 to help the hundreds of deer killed each year and I would be happy to join.
I know it a small area but the huge amount of deer it would save is huge,But it not in one of the SFW places to help.
So I'm guessing I will be waiting awhile.

On the Wyo. Blowing Smokestack (SFW)he told me that they wouldn't come out on that issue because of all the other things they was fighting and they needed the outfitters to be on the same page as them.

Maybe if more of us join the BCH (Back country horseman)we could get a thing started on changing this.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 

Triple_BB

Very Active Member
Messages
1,797
His silence is deafening. Not a surprise. Seems like he only comes on when he has a chance to pat himself on the back and take credit for the work of others. In particular the Wyoming wolf issue. The State of Wyoming and other groups were fighting the wolf issue for 10 years or better before SFW showed up. When the Feds caved a year ago, SFW was there waiving the victory flag and trying to take a big share of the credit. What a bunch of crap...
 

Triple_BB

Very Active Member
Messages
1,797
His silence is deafening. Not a surprise. Seems like he only comes on when he has a chance to pat himself on the back and take credit for the work of others. In particular the Wyoming wolf issue. The State of Wyoming and other groups were fighting the wolf issue for 10 years or better before SFW showed up. When the Feds caved a year ago, SFW was there waiving the victory flag and trying to take a big share of the credit. What a bunch of crap...
 

broadfork

Active Member
Messages
174
I started this thread to know if I should join SFW. And at first it sounded good, even Mr.Peay said some good things. But all of the negative starts to come out, and legit questions, and now nobody wants to answer. What gives?

Mr. Don Peay, if you want me or anyone else to join your organization, just answer these questions and I'm in.

If not I will not join, but go with another more open organization.
 

broadfork

Active Member
Messages
174
I started this thread to know if I should join SFW. And at first it sounded good, even Mr.Peay said some good things. But all of the negative starts to come out, and legit questions, and now nobody wants to answer. What gives?

Mr. Don Peay, if you want me or anyone else to join your organization, just answer these questions and I'm in.

If not I will not join, but go with another more open organization.
 

Hawkeye

Very Active Member
Messages
2,554
Broadfork-

I have been member of SFW in the past and I am quick to admit that they have done some very good things for wildlife. However, some things will never change. Don is quick to hop on the internet when he has an opportunity to toot his horn and take credit for anything positive occuring on the wildlife front. However, he is much more reluctant to step forward and provide answers on tough issues like (1) the request for drawing odds/numbers for the Hunting Expo; and (2) the repeated request for a transparent accounting of how SFW uses it funds (much of which are derived from the sale of public tags). One thing you can count on, however, is for the SFW faithful to log on and label anyone who asks these tough questions as an "arm-chair quarterback" who would rather ##### and moan then go to work and get something done. I too would like to hear some answers straight from the horse's mouth. Until then, I will look for other places to invest my time and money for the good of wildlife.

Hawkeye
 

Hawkeye

Very Active Member
Messages
2,554
Broadfork-

I have been member of SFW in the past and I am quick to admit that they have done some very good things for wildlife. However, some things will never change. Don is quick to hop on the internet when he has an opportunity to toot his horn and take credit for anything positive occuring on the wildlife front. However, he is much more reluctant to step forward and provide answers on tough issues like (1) the request for drawing odds/numbers for the Hunting Expo; and (2) the repeated request for a transparent accounting of how SFW uses it funds (much of which are derived from the sale of public tags). One thing you can count on, however, is for the SFW faithful to log on and label anyone who asks these tough questions as an "arm-chair quarterback" who would rather ##### and moan then go to work and get something done. I too would like to hear some answers straight from the horse's mouth. Until then, I will look for other places to invest my time and money for the good of wildlife.

Hawkeye
 

buglinbilly

Very Active Member
Messages
1,010
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-09 AT 12:54PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-09 AT 12:42?PM (MST)

When SFW first started I joined and was glad to see such an organization. Our mule deer herds were struggling and Don promied help. An organization like that was needed.

Don is a very intelligent guy with many great talents. He knows how to get things done, there is not doubt about that. And he has accomplished some very worthwhile projects and in some segments has done Utah and its wildlife some very positive things. Anyone who truly understands his talents and his work could not deny that.

But there are always two sides to a coin and I lost confidence in SFW when I began to realize the direction he was heading was not what I thought would be best for Utah's wildlife and Utah's sportsmen in general.

I personally think the switch to the emphasis on elk was done because he realized they were more responsive to management and limited hunting and he could see that big money lay ahead. I think that more than anything hurt SFW vision. I think the management of game took a back seat and 2nd place and became not the goal but a method of making money for his organization and that of related industries such as high priced guides, high priced permits and I really think he has all but lost contact with the little guy who wants to hunt and now seldom gets to because of the methods Utah has chosen to limiting most of its hunts.

There is not doubt he know how to raise big money but too much of this is being done on the back of the regular joe who pays a big price by seldom being able to hunt the best hunting areas.

I think SFW, although made of up of some very good people, have been granted far too much power and control and now hold Utah?s wildlife, in many cases, hostage as a means of generating big revenue to their organization and to several of their members or past leaders and ot other though related busniness.

Utah is unique in that it has allowed all this to happen (so many bid permits, bounty hunting, such limited hunting to the general population but have developed a way the wealthy can purchase permits yearly) but states like Idaho, Wyoming and Arizona were SFW exit, will not give up the reins to their management as they don't want it to end up like Utah's present system.

And I personally don't blame them a bit.

SFW has done some very good things, no doubt about that. Don Peay is a very talented man and I give him my kudos from that stand point, but as in life, great people, and great organizations can loose their way from their original goals and I think it has become a means of taking care of I and using Utah?s wildlife and the average joe hunter as the method.

Ask some hard questions on where all the money goes and who gets it and to see the accounting. Ask for the odds on the recent expo tags and see how far you get, even though we all know they are very poor, why can't that be acknowledged as promised?

I think Utah?s hunters are willing to sacrifice if things will be better for them down the line, but I think they are getting fed up with hopes and promises and seeing it really only works for the ultra wealthy.

Am I wrong in this assumption?

Have a good one. BB
 

buglinbilly

Very Active Member
Messages
1,010
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-09 AT 12:54PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-09 AT 12:42?PM (MST)

When SFW first started I joined and was glad to see such an organization. Our mule deer herds were struggling and Don promied help. An organization like that was needed.

Don is a very intelligent guy with many great talents. He knows how to get things done, there is not doubt about that. And he has accomplished some very worthwhile projects and in some segments has done Utah and its wildlife some very positive things. Anyone who truly understands his talents and his work could not deny that.

But there are always two sides to a coin and I lost confidence in SFW when I began to realize the direction he was heading was not what I thought would be best for Utah's wildlife and Utah's sportsmen in general.

I personally think the switch to the emphasis on elk was done because he realized they were more responsive to management and limited hunting and he could see that big money lay ahead. I think that more than anything hurt SFW vision. I think the management of game took a back seat and 2nd place and became not the goal but a method of making money for his organization and that of related industries such as high priced guides, high priced permits and I really think he has all but lost contact with the little guy who wants to hunt and now seldom gets to because of the methods Utah has chosen to limiting most of its hunts.

There is not doubt he know how to raise big money but too much of this is being done on the back of the regular joe who pays a big price by seldom being able to hunt the best hunting areas.

I think SFW, although made of up of some very good people, have been granted far too much power and control and now hold Utah?s wildlife, in many cases, hostage as a means of generating big revenue to their organization and to several of their members or past leaders and ot other though related busniness.

Utah is unique in that it has allowed all this to happen (so many bid permits, bounty hunting, such limited hunting to the general population but have developed a way the wealthy can purchase permits yearly) but states like Idaho, Wyoming and Arizona were SFW exit, will not give up the reins to their management as they don't want it to end up like Utah's present system.

And I personally don't blame them a bit.

SFW has done some very good things, no doubt about that. Don Peay is a very talented man and I give him my kudos from that stand point, but as in life, great people, and great organizations can loose their way from their original goals and I think it has become a means of taking care of I and using Utah?s wildlife and the average joe hunter as the method.

Ask some hard questions on where all the money goes and who gets it and to see the accounting. Ask for the odds on the recent expo tags and see how far you get, even though we all know they are very poor, why can't that be acknowledged as promised?

I think Utah?s hunters are willing to sacrifice if things will be better for them down the line, but I think they are getting fed up with hopes and promises and seeing it really only works for the ultra wealthy.

Am I wrong in this assumption?

Have a good one. BB
 
2

280remington

Guest
Broadfork, you found out what a lot of people already know about Peayday when it comes to Monstermuleys.com and the tough questions. He will show up long enough to tout himself and pat himself on the back. But then slither away like a snake when pressured to answer the tough questions.

Sort of tells me a lot about the character of the guy. But ultimately you should draw your own conclusions.
 
2

280remington

Guest
Broadfork, you found out what a lot of people already know about Peayday when it comes to Monstermuleys.com and the tough questions. He will show up long enough to tout himself and pat himself on the back. But then slither away like a snake when pressured to answer the tough questions.

Sort of tells me a lot about the character of the guy. But ultimately you should draw your own conclusions.
 

broadfork

Active Member
Messages
174
Does anyone else from SFW know the answers. I mean if you are part of an organization, shouldn't you know what your apart of? What is the agenda here? I didn't realize this thread would go so far, but I am glad it did.

I want the hunting in Utah to improve, but it seems to me that there is to much behind the scenes. I think I am going to join another group, but I think that the Utah division of wildlife resources is already bought by SFW.

Please correct me if I"m wrong.
 

broadfork

Active Member
Messages
174
Does anyone else from SFW know the answers. I mean if you are part of an organization, shouldn't you know what your apart of? What is the agenda here? I didn't realize this thread would go so far, but I am glad it did.

I want the hunting in Utah to improve, but it seems to me that there is to much behind the scenes. I think I am going to join another group, but I think that the Utah division of wildlife resources is already bought by SFW.

Please correct me if I"m wrong.
 

one_dryboot

Long Time Member
Messages
4,786
If I was him I wouldnt try and answer all the questions either. Even if he gave an answer and tried to explain, it wouldnt change the minds of those that are nevative anyway. Everyone would try to point out what he is doing wrong. Atleast he and others are doing something!
 

one_dryboot

Long Time Member
Messages
4,786
If I was him I wouldnt try and answer all the questions either. Even if he gave an answer and tried to explain, it wouldnt change the minds of those that are nevative anyway. Everyone would try to point out what he is doing wrong. Atleast he and others are doing something!
 
D

dkpeay

Guest
For those who want to know my schedule, see how many can keep up.

Weds. leave for Dubois, Wyoming. Stop in Lander and met with some SFW members to go over some issues. Meet to plan a $1 Million mule deer habitat donation with some key folks, expect that one in Wyoming by June. (PS some folks want to model the very sucessful, best in the western US Utah habitat restoration program of 150,000 to 200,000 acres a year, Idaho i think does about 2,000, don't know what Wyoming does, but lots more needs to be done.) Attend the Chance Phelps screening in Dubois High and present a $10,000 check to Chance Phelps foundation - check out his movie staring Kevin Bacon on HBO. this $10 Grand is part of nearly $100,000 recently donated by Karl Malone, Steve Creamer, Marc Binham and few others, and all of this money goest to provide dream hunting and fising trips to Iraq vets. NOt one dime of membership money goes to this effort - and i donate 100% of my time to put all the hunts and fishing trips together.

If someone send me their email who can post an email on this from a Marine, who got a hunts for heros hunt, and is now in Iraq for second term it would be interesting to post it here, of course some will call it SFW braggin. Not at all, SFW does hundreds of things - good things - every year most people don't have a clue that are done. By the way, Chance's parents are SFW members in Dubois. Very moving story about a Marine who gave his life so we can all sit and discuss such issues we care about.

Drove nearly all night, got home at 5 a.m. slept for two hours, talked with some legislators on several Utah issues, HB 153, a Tresspass bill that would charge you all $1,000 for crossing a fence that isn't posted, out in the middle of federal land, is probably dead on arrival. so, if you are going to hammer SFW on HB 187, then thahks SFW for a dead HB 153, some may not know it yet, but it is dead. HB 187 is still up in the air, SFW membership is split on that issue, and the SFw board hasn't made final decision.

After two hours sleep, and two hours at work, jumpled on a plane, went and meet with a gentleman who is interested in doing some major stuff to help sportsmen in Alaska. Alaska Moose and Caribou and sheep in places are in dire straights, and so are some of the salmon fisheriers.

Flew home, jumped on another plane, flew to Dallas for the weekend to see new Grandson, and spend a little time with my family. Expo was an 18-20 hour a day effort for 3 months, don't get paid over time, just a flat fee. Hardly spent any quality time with kids for three months. HOw many of you will work 18 hour days, and get paid for 8?

today, worked all day on a ton of different issues, started at 5:30 a.m. It is now 8:50 pm. 152 emails asking questions, still to try and answer.

SFW has helped put $150 Million on the ground for wildlfie. Is that worth your $20 Membership ?

The fisherman needed $10,000 for a strawberry fish planting project. SFW puts up $7,500, the rest of the fishing groups put up $2,500. SFw has played a significant role in geting tens of millions of dollars to rebuild fish hatcheries, and help with in stream flow legilation that helped keep water in rivers in August. Funny how the "fisherman" want to always hammer SFW, who has done more for fisherman than the above ? Nearly every SFW member, my wife included fish. For some, if you are fishing only - you don't qualify as a fisherman - oh you hunt and fish.

And, why is the fishing groups all need SFW on 187 - why can't someone else win just one battle on their own for once ? Some fishing groups opposed 187, it passed out of the house committee 10 in favor, 4 against. Are you all very smart to hammer SFW, then ask us to come and win your fights ? SFW will do what our membership wants us to do, and what the board directs, not what MM members ask. We look for input from all people, but our members, and our board drives our bus.

To another post, SFW never represents we represent all sportsmen, the RACS and Board know who we represent, our members, only, but thier is NOT a larger, more geographically and socio-economically diverse group in Utah, and the same for otehr SFW orgs in some other states. And because of the imense good, lots of people listen to SFW, on many issues.

the 10,000 members know where the money goes, it is good enought for them. AFter things slow down in April, i will hold a meeting with those who want, and explain how the money is spent, you can't do it on the internet.

So, i have never ducked a good fight, nor has SFW. Sometimes there is just a lot going on - like most of the year, and i don't have timet o sit and watch MM every hour.

When the 24 anti hunters went to court to undue the wolf delisting, the most important issue for the west, SFW and SCI were the ONLY sportsmen groups in teh court room. WE lost that one, but the wolf wars are going strong, and SFW is in the middle of it.

but as lumpy said, in essence, if you have been in 150 political fighst, and the organization is still alive, somebody must know when to hold them, when to fold them, and when to drive the dagger in the heart.

But more importantly, SFW members are enlightened enough to understand SFW is NOT perfect, is NOT always going to do what they want, but in the sum total, SFW gets a lot done, for the good. and that is why SFW is the largest group in Utah.

And while you might want to hammer SFW on teh permits - SCI, RMEF, NWTF and MDF and DU and UBA also auction permits. And MDF and WSF are part of the Expo, so if you are going to hammer SFW, hammer everyone. And if you take out all of these groups, in this paragraph, who is left ? Nobody.

any rate, i am sure i have left a few things out, a few un answerred questions, but we do the best we can.
 
D

dkpeay

Guest
For those who want to know my schedule, see how many can keep up.

Weds. leave for Dubois, Wyoming. Stop in Lander and met with some SFW members to go over some issues. Meet to plan a $1 Million mule deer habitat donation with some key folks, expect that one in Wyoming by June. (PS some folks want to model the very sucessful, best in the western US Utah habitat restoration program of 150,000 to 200,000 acres a year, Idaho i think does about 2,000, don't know what Wyoming does, but lots more needs to be done.) Attend the Chance Phelps screening in Dubois High and present a $10,000 check to Chance Phelps foundation - check out his movie staring Kevin Bacon on HBO. this $10 Grand is part of nearly $100,000 recently donated by Karl Malone, Steve Creamer, Marc Binham and few others, and all of this money goest to provide dream hunting and fising trips to Iraq vets. NOt one dime of membership money goes to this effort - and i donate 100% of my time to put all the hunts and fishing trips together.

If someone send me their email who can post an email on this from a Marine, who got a hunts for heros hunt, and is now in Iraq for second term it would be interesting to post it here, of course some will call it SFW braggin. Not at all, SFW does hundreds of things - good things - every year most people don't have a clue that are done. By the way, Chance's parents are SFW members in Dubois. Very moving story about a Marine who gave his life so we can all sit and discuss such issues we care about.

Drove nearly all night, got home at 5 a.m. slept for two hours, talked with some legislators on several Utah issues, HB 153, a Tresspass bill that would charge you all $1,000 for crossing a fence that isn't posted, out in the middle of federal land, is probably dead on arrival. so, if you are going to hammer SFW on HB 187, then thahks SFW for a dead HB 153, some may not know it yet, but it is dead. HB 187 is still up in the air, SFW membership is split on that issue, and the SFw board hasn't made final decision.

After two hours sleep, and two hours at work, jumpled on a plane, went and meet with a gentleman who is interested in doing some major stuff to help sportsmen in Alaska. Alaska Moose and Caribou and sheep in places are in dire straights, and so are some of the salmon fisheriers.

Flew home, jumped on another plane, flew to Dallas for the weekend to see new Grandson, and spend a little time with my family. Expo was an 18-20 hour a day effort for 3 months, don't get paid over time, just a flat fee. Hardly spent any quality time with kids for three months. HOw many of you will work 18 hour days, and get paid for 8?

today, worked all day on a ton of different issues, started at 5:30 a.m. It is now 8:50 pm. 152 emails asking questions, still to try and answer.

SFW has helped put $150 Million on the ground for wildlfie. Is that worth your $20 Membership ?

The fisherman needed $10,000 for a strawberry fish planting project. SFW puts up $7,500, the rest of the fishing groups put up $2,500. SFw has played a significant role in geting tens of millions of dollars to rebuild fish hatcheries, and help with in stream flow legilation that helped keep water in rivers in August. Funny how the "fisherman" want to always hammer SFW, who has done more for fisherman than the above ? Nearly every SFW member, my wife included fish. For some, if you are fishing only - you don't qualify as a fisherman - oh you hunt and fish.

And, why is the fishing groups all need SFW on 187 - why can't someone else win just one battle on their own for once ? Some fishing groups opposed 187, it passed out of the house committee 10 in favor, 4 against. Are you all very smart to hammer SFW, then ask us to come and win your fights ? SFW will do what our membership wants us to do, and what the board directs, not what MM members ask. We look for input from all people, but our members, and our board drives our bus.

To another post, SFW never represents we represent all sportsmen, the RACS and Board know who we represent, our members, only, but thier is NOT a larger, more geographically and socio-economically diverse group in Utah, and the same for otehr SFW orgs in some other states. And because of the imense good, lots of people listen to SFW, on many issues.

the 10,000 members know where the money goes, it is good enought for them. AFter things slow down in April, i will hold a meeting with those who want, and explain how the money is spent, you can't do it on the internet.

So, i have never ducked a good fight, nor has SFW. Sometimes there is just a lot going on - like most of the year, and i don't have timet o sit and watch MM every hour.

When the 24 anti hunters went to court to undue the wolf delisting, the most important issue for the west, SFW and SCI were the ONLY sportsmen groups in teh court room. WE lost that one, but the wolf wars are going strong, and SFW is in the middle of it.

but as lumpy said, in essence, if you have been in 150 political fighst, and the organization is still alive, somebody must know when to hold them, when to fold them, and when to drive the dagger in the heart.

But more importantly, SFW members are enlightened enough to understand SFW is NOT perfect, is NOT always going to do what they want, but in the sum total, SFW gets a lot done, for the good. and that is why SFW is the largest group in Utah.

And while you might want to hammer SFW on teh permits - SCI, RMEF, NWTF and MDF and DU and UBA also auction permits. And MDF and WSF are part of the Expo, so if you are going to hammer SFW, hammer everyone. And if you take out all of these groups, in this paragraph, who is left ? Nobody.

any rate, i am sure i have left a few things out, a few un answerred questions, but we do the best we can.
 
D

dkpeay

Guest
Bugglin billy,

The DWR gave SFW the award for the First Habitat Award - over 500,000 acres of land for mule deer and elk have been restored. SFW was awarded both for helping get this massive effort started and for getting tens of millions of dollars on the ground. So, if habitat is where it is at, SFW is in front of that line. If buying winter range, and feeding deer and turkeys in emergencies, SFW is in the front of that line.

It is so interesting that everyone brings up these other states. Teh Arizona deer herds are in MAJOR decline, no major habitat work being done - unless Ray Lee former AZ G&F is a liar. But they are proud they are on a sinking ship, but they don't offer auction tags.

Same with Idaho. ID. game and fish had Utah DWR director go and explain how Utah treats 150,000 acres a year, and Idaho does only 2,000. If habitat is where its at, Utah is number one, by far. And a BIG part of that is fueled by the auction permits.

Utah's herds are up in most cases 200 to 500%, and so are the hunting permits. what person would not give up 5% of their permits, if they could see a 200 to 500% increase in the future ?

SFW has also helped get numberous transplants of deer, moose, bighorn sheep, mt. goats, bison and antelope completed. Just wrote checks for over $150,000 got get a few of those done, projects approved jointly with the DWR.

fish hatcheries have been rebuilt, tens of millions of dollars have gone into fencing highways and building underpasses - etc. etc. etc.

everyone gets to make their opinion on what SFW contributes to what, both in actual dollars and in other manners.

So, i don't buy off at all in we are just in it for the money. Having said that, we live in a capitalistic society which means money talks and BS walks.

Every management action for habitat, transplants, water, poaching patrol, coyote control, publishing a magazine, it all cost money.

Not going to beat a dead horse, when someone can come up with a new way to invest $10 to $13 Million a year - new money, in each state, we are all ears. MAny game and fish folks told the industry in Reno just last October, the answer is more tax money. Anyone noticed what is happening to tax revenues lately ? ON a sinking ship, but not going to try something new to fix it.
 
D

dkpeay

Guest
Bugglin billy,

The DWR gave SFW the award for the First Habitat Award - over 500,000 acres of land for mule deer and elk have been restored. SFW was awarded both for helping get this massive effort started and for getting tens of millions of dollars on the ground. So, if habitat is where it is at, SFW is in front of that line. If buying winter range, and feeding deer and turkeys in emergencies, SFW is in the front of that line.

It is so interesting that everyone brings up these other states. Teh Arizona deer herds are in MAJOR decline, no major habitat work being done - unless Ray Lee former AZ G&F is a liar. But they are proud they are on a sinking ship, but they don't offer auction tags.

Same with Idaho. ID. game and fish had Utah DWR director go and explain how Utah treats 150,000 acres a year, and Idaho does only 2,000. If habitat is where its at, Utah is number one, by far. And a BIG part of that is fueled by the auction permits.

Utah's herds are up in most cases 200 to 500%, and so are the hunting permits. what person would not give up 5% of their permits, if they could see a 200 to 500% increase in the future ?

SFW has also helped get numberous transplants of deer, moose, bighorn sheep, mt. goats, bison and antelope completed. Just wrote checks for over $150,000 got get a few of those done, projects approved jointly with the DWR.

fish hatcheries have been rebuilt, tens of millions of dollars have gone into fencing highways and building underpasses - etc. etc. etc.

everyone gets to make their opinion on what SFW contributes to what, both in actual dollars and in other manners.

So, i don't buy off at all in we are just in it for the money. Having said that, we live in a capitalistic society which means money talks and BS walks.

Every management action for habitat, transplants, water, poaching patrol, coyote control, publishing a magazine, it all cost money.

Not going to beat a dead horse, when someone can come up with a new way to invest $10 to $13 Million a year - new money, in each state, we are all ears. MAny game and fish folks told the industry in Reno just last October, the answer is more tax money. Anyone noticed what is happening to tax revenues lately ? ON a sinking ship, but not going to try something new to fix it.
 
D

dkpeay

Guest
280,

Lets have a public debate you bring 100 people, i bring 100 people. Two hour debate, no holds barred, then we have the audienc vote on who gets more done for wildife and who wins the debate.

i'll bet you a few benjies on the outcome.
 
D

dkpeay

Guest
280,

Lets have a public debate you bring 100 people, i bring 100 people. Two hour debate, no holds barred, then we have the audienc vote on who gets more done for wildife and who wins the debate.

i'll bet you a few benjies on the outcome.
 

Hawkeye

Very Active Member
Messages
2,554
Don-

Welcome aboard. I appreciate you chiming in but your response is exactly what I have come to expect over the years. You have told us, once again, how important you are and how much you have accomplished. I do not doubt your work ethic or your ability to get things done. What I do question is your inability or refusal to answer the difficult questions. For instance, people have been asking SFW to provide a detailed accounting for years. This request seems quite reasonable given that SFW raises a large portion of its revenue by selling public tags and seeking private donations from sportsman like me. I know that SFW does many good things and puts lots of money on the ground but I want to track every penny that comes from the sale of public tags. If you are truly going to hold a meeting in April to provide this information, please send me an invitation. I would love to attend. If you provide the answers that I (and others) have been looking for, perhaps I will renew my membersip. I am also asking for SFW to release the numbers relating to the Hunting Expo. In the beginnimg, SFW promised these numbers would be made public. I guess what I am saying is a little transparency would go a long way toward restoring people's faith in SFW. Please take my comments as a sincere request from a concerned outdoorsman and a former SFW member. I know there are many people that feel just like me.

Sincerely,

Jason Hawkins
 

Hawkeye

Very Active Member
Messages
2,554
Don-

Welcome aboard. I appreciate you chiming in but your response is exactly what I have come to expect over the years. You have told us, once again, how important you are and how much you have accomplished. I do not doubt your work ethic or your ability to get things done. What I do question is your inability or refusal to answer the difficult questions. For instance, people have been asking SFW to provide a detailed accounting for years. This request seems quite reasonable given that SFW raises a large portion of its revenue by selling public tags and seeking private donations from sportsman like me. I know that SFW does many good things and puts lots of money on the ground but I want to track every penny that comes from the sale of public tags. If you are truly going to hold a meeting in April to provide this information, please send me an invitation. I would love to attend. If you provide the answers that I (and others) have been looking for, perhaps I will renew my membersip. I am also asking for SFW to release the numbers relating to the Hunting Expo. In the beginnimg, SFW promised these numbers would be made public. I guess what I am saying is a little transparency would go a long way toward restoring people's faith in SFW. Please take my comments as a sincere request from a concerned outdoorsman and a former SFW member. I know there are many people that feel just like me.

Sincerely,

Jason Hawkins
 

SMOKESTICK

Active Member
Messages
851
Triple BB,

SFW didn't get started in Wyoming until 2003 but SFW was the only group that fought to get HB213 passed. This bill allowed Wyoming to obtain an approved management plan which ultimately led to the delisting of wolves. You can ask anyone and they will all tell you that HB213 passed solely because of SFW. Furthermore, it was SFW that got the Director of the USFWS to write Wyoming's wolf management plan and one state Senator was able to get the Governor to act on it. Had that not occurred, Wyoming would not have had an approved plan and delisting would not have happened.
As Don mentioned, it was SFW and SCI alone which took on the legal challenges of delisting. Ask your elected officials what they think about WY SFW and you will find they know who we are and whom we represent.
What have you accomplished besides whining on MM?
Don't forget the Wildlife and Natural Resource Trust which was defeated twice before SFW showed up. Today this Trust has $85 Million dollars in its corpus, $14 Million dollars from Wyoming have been leveraged to over $106 Million dollars in projects. Not bad considering how short the Trust has been in operation.
The Trust is one of Wyoming's 'Crown Jewels' and something I am most proud of.
I'll ask once more; what have you accomplished Triple BB?
 

SMOKESTICK

Active Member
Messages
851
Triple BB,

SFW didn't get started in Wyoming until 2003 but SFW was the only group that fought to get HB213 passed. This bill allowed Wyoming to obtain an approved management plan which ultimately led to the delisting of wolves. You can ask anyone and they will all tell you that HB213 passed solely because of SFW. Furthermore, it was SFW that got the Director of the USFWS to write Wyoming's wolf management plan and one state Senator was able to get the Governor to act on it. Had that not occurred, Wyoming would not have had an approved plan and delisting would not have happened.
As Don mentioned, it was SFW and SCI alone which took on the legal challenges of delisting. Ask your elected officials what they think about WY SFW and you will find they know who we are and whom we represent.
What have you accomplished besides whining on MM?
Don't forget the Wildlife and Natural Resource Trust which was defeated twice before SFW showed up. Today this Trust has $85 Million dollars in its corpus, $14 Million dollars from Wyoming have been leveraged to over $106 Million dollars in projects. Not bad considering how short the Trust has been in operation.
The Trust is one of Wyoming's 'Crown Jewels' and something I am most proud of.
I'll ask once more; what have you accomplished Triple BB?
 

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