S.F.W.

YEP Me TOO! I hope that Don NEVER fishes or hunts on a river again...

Of course why would he do that when he can steal our money and go to Canada and fish and hunt up there?

Time to Remove the Fish out of SFW....now it will just be Sportsmen for Wildlife....screw fish, who needs them anyway! Not like you can sell a Rainbow Trout for 100K anyway!

Good Luck Don!
 
YEP Me TOO! I hope that Don NEVER fishes or hunts on a river again...

Of course why would he do that when he can steal our money and go to Canada and fish and hunt up there?

Time to Remove the Fish out of SFW....now it will just be Sportsmen for Wildlife....screw fish, who needs them anyway! Not like you can sell a Rainbow Trout for 100K anyway!

Good Luck Don!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-09 AT 09:43AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-09 AT 09:39?AM (MST)

Don-

Great work on the sheep transplants. We all know that SFW and the other conservation groups participate in many such projects, and we appreciate those efforts. Unfortunately, you completely ignored the legitimate questions and concerns raised in the prior 147 posts. For example, how about addressing the tax returns that ColoradoOak tracked down that suggest SFW only spent between 13.5% and 18% of its total revenue on wildlife projects (see posts 103 and 125). Or how about producing the long promised Expo numbers or explaining why the relevant Utah Aministrative Code provisions identified by ColoradoOak (http://wildlife.utah.gov/rules/R657-55.php) do not contain ANY requirement that ANY portion of funds raised from the sale of Convention Permits actually be used to benefit wildlife.

When I initially posted on this thread I had a couple of simple questions, questions that have been asked by many people over the years. Rather than providing answers, SFW has ignored the real issues, touted its successes and labeled anyone who disagrees or questions as an ungrateful malcontent. Through this process, I have tried to be honest, factual and respectful. My offer to take you or another SFW Board Member to lunch and discuss these issues is still open. And please remember to invite me to your upcoming meeting in April, where you plan to discuss these issues.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-09 AT 09:43AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-09 AT 09:39?AM (MST)

Don-

Great work on the sheep transplants. We all know that SFW and the other conservation groups participate in many such projects, and we appreciate those efforts. Unfortunately, you completely ignored the legitimate questions and concerns raised in the prior 147 posts. For example, how about addressing the tax returns that ColoradoOak tracked down that suggest SFW only spent between 13.5% and 18% of its total revenue on wildlife projects (see posts 103 and 125). Or how about producing the long promised Expo numbers or explaining why the relevant Utah Aministrative Code provisions identified by ColoradoOak (http://wildlife.utah.gov/rules/R657-55.php) do not contain ANY requirement that ANY portion of funds raised from the sale of Convention Permits actually be used to benefit wildlife.

When I initially posted on this thread I had a couple of simple questions, questions that have been asked by many people over the years. Rather than providing answers, SFW has ignored the real issues, touted its successes and labeled anyone who disagrees or questions as an ungrateful malcontent. Through this process, I have tried to be honest, factual and respectful. My offer to take you or another SFW Board Member to lunch and discuss these issues is still open. And please remember to invite me to your upcoming meeting in April, where you plan to discuss these issues.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
Hawkeye....

VERY GOOD POINTS!!!!


Don,

Where is all the information that has been promised? We all know you are a very busy man, and that your time is precious. Please answer these questions, so we can all understand where SFW real position is.....

I know members have emailed you about HB187 and there emails get ignored time and time again....if you do find time to answer them they get some lame answer that the bill is changing all the time. All we wanted to know what was what is SFW position, I would think that due to all the current SFW members emailing you that maybe you would be looking out for the average joe.....but who really is the average joe in your eyes?
 
Hawkeye....

VERY GOOD POINTS!!!!


Don,

Where is all the information that has been promised? We all know you are a very busy man, and that your time is precious. Please answer these questions, so we can all understand where SFW real position is.....

I know members have emailed you about HB187 and there emails get ignored time and time again....if you do find time to answer them they get some lame answer that the bill is changing all the time. All we wanted to know what was what is SFW position, I would think that due to all the current SFW members emailing you that maybe you would be looking out for the average joe.....but who really is the average joe in your eyes?
 
awholelotabull,

Hey dont get all bunched up, I'm done fighting the monster. Push for all the auction tags you can...and definately keep up the good fight for another few hundred expo tags. In particular those available only to NR's...I like those the most.

Lets see...lets do some math...should I join SFW for what is the cost again??? $25 for a membership? That way I'd be putting a whopping $3.25 on the ground for wildlife.

Then I could say how I do so much for wildlife and how great I am...all for $3.25 cents I can be the savior of the herds and flocks in Utah....awesome!

Naaaa...I'll just support the Utah Game and Fish instead.
 
awholelotabull,

Hey dont get all bunched up, I'm done fighting the monster. Push for all the auction tags you can...and definately keep up the good fight for another few hundred expo tags. In particular those available only to NR's...I like those the most.

Lets see...lets do some math...should I join SFW for what is the cost again??? $25 for a membership? That way I'd be putting a whopping $3.25 on the ground for wildlife.

Then I could say how I do so much for wildlife and how great I am...all for $3.25 cents I can be the savior of the herds and flocks in Utah....awesome!

Naaaa...I'll just support the Utah Game and Fish instead.
 
Deerlove,

On another forum, it was said that Don wanted it blocked very, very bad. I don't know if don is now the voice of the 15k members, but that is not my position being a member...
 
Deerlove,

On another forum, it was said that Don wanted it blocked very, very bad. I don't know if don is now the voice of the 15k members, but that is not my position being a member...
 
Say all you want, all the major projects down here in my slice of BFE have been spearheaded by SFW. Thanks Don & thanks to all that give there time/effort & moolah.

All the rest of the blowhards have amounted to just that.
 
Say all you want, all the major projects down here in my slice of BFE have been spearheaded by SFW. Thanks Don & thanks to all that give there time/effort & moolah.

All the rest of the blowhards have amounted to just that.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-09 AT 11:42AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-09 AT 11:42?AM (MST)

awholelotabull,

What part dont I know about??? The part where 13% of my money would hit the ground if I joined SFW?

Can you prove that number to be higher than 13%?

What dont I know about the money raised by the convention tags not having to spent on wildlife projects?

Am I missing something?

Funny stuff.

But, like I said, keep up the good fight. I'll be expecting more convention tags...so get to work!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-09 AT 11:42AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-09 AT 11:42?AM (MST)

awholelotabull,

What part dont I know about??? The part where 13% of my money would hit the ground if I joined SFW?

Can you prove that number to be higher than 13%?

What dont I know about the money raised by the convention tags not having to spent on wildlife projects?

Am I missing something?

Funny stuff.

But, like I said, keep up the good fight. I'll be expecting more convention tags...so get to work!
 
To all the critics,
Look at my post number 68 again.
Sportsmen can make a lot more money getting involved in the political process, through legislation, than through banquets.

Raising money through banquets alone is not enough money to make changes needed for us to hunt in the next 20-50 years. Look at how fast Utah is loosing winter range, and what Utahs projected population is going to be in 20 years.

Expo permits are 5% of the tags. Who ends up the permits. Mostly ave guys. Many live in small towns. The same guys that are willing to go to banquets and donate a little to help make hunting better. I'm glad these guys get rewarded. 90% of hunters do nothing. They don't belong to any conservation groups. They don't do any projects to help wildlife. They simply apply for hunts, and feel that, they deserve the tags. For they are state animals. And they applied for them. I would bet that about every expo tag winner, has done something to help hunting and wildlife. When 90% of the people in the regular draw have done little or nothing for wildlife. Until this last year change, about 60% of the people who applied did not even bother to buy a license.

I'm sure I have donated more than 10k to SFW over the past 13 years. Far more than the 25 dollars a year. I know many of the fights that have been faught. I know the projects and things done in my area, Cache Valley. It was worth it to me.

I like founder have been to many meetings. I trust the leadership and board members of SFW. I too would wonder what would have happened without Don's work and SFW.

I agree, there should be better info available to public.

Just a few thoughts.
 
To all the critics,
Look at my post number 68 again.
Sportsmen can make a lot more money getting involved in the political process, through legislation, than through banquets.

Raising money through banquets alone is not enough money to make changes needed for us to hunt in the next 20-50 years. Look at how fast Utah is loosing winter range, and what Utahs projected population is going to be in 20 years.

Expo permits are 5% of the tags. Who ends up the permits. Mostly ave guys. Many live in small towns. The same guys that are willing to go to banquets and donate a little to help make hunting better. I'm glad these guys get rewarded. 90% of hunters do nothing. They don't belong to any conservation groups. They don't do any projects to help wildlife. They simply apply for hunts, and feel that, they deserve the tags. For they are state animals. And they applied for them. I would bet that about every expo tag winner, has done something to help hunting and wildlife. When 90% of the people in the regular draw have done little or nothing for wildlife. Until this last year change, about 60% of the people who applied did not even bother to buy a license.

I'm sure I have donated more than 10k to SFW over the past 13 years. Far more than the 25 dollars a year. I know many of the fights that have been faught. I know the projects and things done in my area, Cache Valley. It was worth it to me.

I like founder have been to many meetings. I trust the leadership and board members of SFW. I too would wonder what would have happened without Don's work and SFW.

I agree, there should be better info available to public.

Just a few thoughts.
 
>dkpeay, can you tell us if
>SFW supported HB 187 in
>any form? Thank you.
>

Never mind...I think I found my answer. For those that don't know, HB 187 would eliminate public fishing access to some areas where legal access was affirmed by the Utah Supreme Court last year. This bill REDUCES access for anglers in Utah.

E-mail from Don Peay:

Over the past several years, the Utah Legislature has been VERY good to Fisherman in Utah. Tens of millions of dollars have been invested to rebuild fish hatcheries, legislation has been passed to allow for acquisition of water rights to allow for instream flow in low times to protect fisheries etc. by all accounts, fishing in cold water and warm water fisheries in Utah is exceptional, in many cases, it has never been better.

I might remind the ?we are radical fly fisherman only? fisherman, that their 300 member groups pale in comparison to the SFW membership statewide, and 95% of SFW members fish. And, when the fishing groups needed to raise $10,000 to put larger rainbows in Strawberry, SFW came up with $7,500 of the 10 grand.

There have been several amendments proposed by the Sponsor of HB 187. They include eliminating a past rule that would have required NO fishing within 150 feet of a dwelling on a river, you just had to float by. With the current proposal, go ahead and fish on.

The bill is being amended to allow a committee to look at other rivers not found on the access list, and propose adding them in the future.

These are good amendments from my perspective.

HB 187 will specifically allow for public access ? even through private property if fisherman are in the rivers ? on these major rivers: Logan, Bear, Blacksmith Fork, Little Bear, Ogden, Weber, Bear, Jordan, Provo, Duschesne, White, Strawberry, Price, Diamond Fork, Lower Sevier, and Sevier River. I believe 5 other smaller streams will be added to the access list.

This will mean, in some total, approximately 95-97% of the FISH in Utah will be accessible to the public.

This will mean that private property rights, where relatively small streams will be closed to the public, as they had been for 100 years. However, once again, by law, all of the major rivers and streams above and all the lakes will be open to the public. And of course, the Green River and Colorado, etc. which can be floated, are open as well.

Based on the feedback from emails, and in discussions with many people, most SFW members support this legislation and so after consulting with the SFW Executive Board, that will be the official SFW position. Mind you, this legislation has changed hourly, that is part of the process, and this bill is pretty good. IN my judgment, now supporting this legislation will do lots of good for many reasons, on many other issues and funding for the DWR and conservation as well. To fight it just to delay, or simple because some people want 100% of what they want, or Nothing is not smart business for now, or in the future.
 
>dkpeay, can you tell us if
>SFW supported HB 187 in
>any form? Thank you.
>

Never mind...I think I found my answer. For those that don't know, HB 187 would eliminate public fishing access to some areas where legal access was affirmed by the Utah Supreme Court last year. This bill REDUCES access for anglers in Utah.

E-mail from Don Peay:

Over the past several years, the Utah Legislature has been VERY good to Fisherman in Utah. Tens of millions of dollars have been invested to rebuild fish hatcheries, legislation has been passed to allow for acquisition of water rights to allow for instream flow in low times to protect fisheries etc. by all accounts, fishing in cold water and warm water fisheries in Utah is exceptional, in many cases, it has never been better.

I might remind the ?we are radical fly fisherman only? fisherman, that their 300 member groups pale in comparison to the SFW membership statewide, and 95% of SFW members fish. And, when the fishing groups needed to raise $10,000 to put larger rainbows in Strawberry, SFW came up with $7,500 of the 10 grand.

There have been several amendments proposed by the Sponsor of HB 187. They include eliminating a past rule that would have required NO fishing within 150 feet of a dwelling on a river, you just had to float by. With the current proposal, go ahead and fish on.

The bill is being amended to allow a committee to look at other rivers not found on the access list, and propose adding them in the future.

These are good amendments from my perspective.

HB 187 will specifically allow for public access ? even through private property if fisherman are in the rivers ? on these major rivers: Logan, Bear, Blacksmith Fork, Little Bear, Ogden, Weber, Bear, Jordan, Provo, Duschesne, White, Strawberry, Price, Diamond Fork, Lower Sevier, and Sevier River. I believe 5 other smaller streams will be added to the access list.

This will mean, in some total, approximately 95-97% of the FISH in Utah will be accessible to the public.

This will mean that private property rights, where relatively small streams will be closed to the public, as they had been for 100 years. However, once again, by law, all of the major rivers and streams above and all the lakes will be open to the public. And of course, the Green River and Colorado, etc. which can be floated, are open as well.

Based on the feedback from emails, and in discussions with many people, most SFW members support this legislation and so after consulting with the SFW Executive Board, that will be the official SFW position. Mind you, this legislation has changed hourly, that is part of the process, and this bill is pretty good. IN my judgment, now supporting this legislation will do lots of good for many reasons, on many other issues and funding for the DWR and conservation as well. To fight it just to delay, or simple because some people want 100% of what they want, or Nothing is not smart business for now, or in the future.
 
I HAVE A SOLUTION!

Those SFW-haters out there, quit whining and use GRAMA (Government Records Access Management Act) and get the numbers from UDWR. UDWR managed the Expo tags through their website, plus they have all the SFW audit information, they have to release all information to anybody who requests it. The law even regulates that they can only charge .20 per page to print it. GRAMA is very powerful, use it.

Submit a request under GRAMA (Google it to find out how) and UDWR is required to give you the information.

I remain neutral on SFW, but I'm intrigued to see the true numbers.

Grizzly
 
I HAVE A SOLUTION!

Those SFW-haters out there, quit whining and use GRAMA (Government Records Access Management Act) and get the numbers from UDWR. UDWR managed the Expo tags through their website, plus they have all the SFW audit information, they have to release all information to anybody who requests it. The law even regulates that they can only charge .20 per page to print it. GRAMA is very powerful, use it.

Submit a request under GRAMA (Google it to find out how) and UDWR is required to give you the information.

I remain neutral on SFW, but I'm intrigued to see the true numbers.

Grizzly
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-09 AT 03:59PM (MST)[p]Grizz-

I guess I am a "SFW-Hater" because I have some legitimate questions that have never been answered (even though I am a past member, have donated money and will be attending a banquet and donating money later this month). Sure, a concerned sportsman could issue a GRAMA request to the DWR, fight through the red tape and eventually get some information out of the DWR. My question is why is that even necessary? Why won't SFW answer legitimate questions? Why won't SFW provide provide a public accounting? Why did ColoradoOak have to track down the SFW tax returns in cyberspace? Why hasn't anyone from SFW explained or rebutted the numbers in the tax returns? Why won't SFW voluntarily produce the long promised Expo numbers? Why the silence and secrecy on these issues?

You are right that somebody could jump through the GRAMA hoops and obtain some of this information from the DWR. However, I think it is unfortunate that a non-profit conservation organization that makes its money through seeking donations from you and me and selling public tags refuses to provide any response whatsoever.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-09 AT 03:59PM (MST)[p]Grizz-

I guess I am a "SFW-Hater" because I have some legitimate questions that have never been answered (even though I am a past member, have donated money and will be attending a banquet and donating money later this month). Sure, a concerned sportsman could issue a GRAMA request to the DWR, fight through the red tape and eventually get some information out of the DWR. My question is why is that even necessary? Why won't SFW answer legitimate questions? Why won't SFW provide provide a public accounting? Why did ColoradoOak have to track down the SFW tax returns in cyberspace? Why hasn't anyone from SFW explained or rebutted the numbers in the tax returns? Why won't SFW voluntarily produce the long promised Expo numbers? Why the silence and secrecy on these issues?

You are right that somebody could jump through the GRAMA hoops and obtain some of this information from the DWR. However, I think it is unfortunate that a non-profit conservation organization that makes its money through seeking donations from you and me and selling public tags refuses to provide any response whatsoever.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
Hawkeye, most GRAMA requests are fulfilled in only a few days, the potential penalties for non-compliance are too severe for most to risk.

Another option would be to walk into their office and ask for the most recent financials. I had to use this tactic with another non-profit and it works. A non-profit must release the previous years tax information "immediately upon request". Any failure will result in a federal fine of $50.00/day. Again the IRS allows a fee of .20 per page for copies.

I am not implying that you are an SFW-hater because you ask legitimate questions, but there are plenty of vindictive folks out there.

Grizzly
 
Hawkeye, most GRAMA requests are fulfilled in only a few days, the potential penalties for non-compliance are too severe for most to risk.

Another option would be to walk into their office and ask for the most recent financials. I had to use this tactic with another non-profit and it works. A non-profit must release the previous years tax information "immediately upon request". Any failure will result in a federal fine of $50.00/day. Again the IRS allows a fee of .20 per page for copies.

I am not implying that you are an SFW-hater because you ask legitimate questions, but there are plenty of vindictive folks out there.

Grizzly
 
Grizzly,

I believe you are missing the point. As much as these guys want to yell and scream about getting this info, that is not what they are really after. What they are after is arguing back and forth on this site. The fact that Don will actually get on here and present his case just makes it that much funner for them. I know I will get called a drone and told I can not speak for these sportsmen. But really that is closer to the truth than any will admit!
 
Grizzly,

I believe you are missing the point. As much as these guys want to yell and scream about getting this info, that is not what they are really after. What they are after is arguing back and forth on this site. The fact that Don will actually get on here and present his case just makes it that much funner for them. I know I will get called a drone and told I can not speak for these sportsmen. But really that is closer to the truth than any will admit!
 
Aside from raping the average joe on banquet and expo tags they do some great things. They use a lot of the auction tag money to increase OIL tags like bison, moose, mountain goat, and sheep.They have increased herds on limited entry units so the gov tag guy or those lucky enough to draw can kill big ones.As for the average general season deer or elk hunter, I'm not seeing the quality of hunting improve due to anything SFW has done.

SFW does a lot of lobbying for hunters rights and that a lone would be worth joining. I'm not against them selling some tags to the highest bidder, it's the number of tags they are getting that bothers me. They are alocated way to many IMO....and it keeps increasing.....

All things considered, I'd say join, but only if you are already a member of the NRA and want to join another organization.The NRA is were the real fight is right now.

Mike
 
Aside from raping the average joe on banquet and expo tags they do some great things. They use a lot of the auction tag money to increase OIL tags like bison, moose, mountain goat, and sheep.They have increased herds on limited entry units so the gov tag guy or those lucky enough to draw can kill big ones.As for the average general season deer or elk hunter, I'm not seeing the quality of hunting improve due to anything SFW has done.

SFW does a lot of lobbying for hunters rights and that a lone would be worth joining. I'm not against them selling some tags to the highest bidder, it's the number of tags they are getting that bothers me. They are alocated way to many IMO....and it keeps increasing.....

All things considered, I'd say join, but only if you are already a member of the NRA and want to join another organization.The NRA is were the real fight is right now.

Mike
 
>The fact
>that Don will actually get
>on here and present his
>case just makes it that
>much funner for them.

Now that's funny right there, I don't care who you are. If dkpeay actually did come on here and present his case, these threads would likely go away. But all we hear are the same old tired backslapping, and no answers to the questions asked.

I don't think anyone is saying that SFW is doing no good, and I don't think anyone is trying to shut SFW down. I'm not, anyway. I think that the projects dkpeay has brought up time and time again here are good things, and I applaud the hard work that has gone into them. I don't agree with wasting money on predator control, but I'm not a member of his group, so I have no say. I already let my membership with MDF expire because they insisted on wasting my money.

It seems that the favorite argument recently for supporting SFW despite the $ figures presented is "yeah, they take a lot of tags and I would like to see a better accounting, but they do more than any other group."

My only point is that it is YOUR group! It's not dkpeay's group. You have a say, and you should demand accountability. You don't have to take the bad with the good. You should get the good with NO bad. You don't have to allow your lobbyist (dkpeay) to throw your fishing access under the bus for the sake of political favors down the road. You can demand accountability from YOUR board of directors. You can demand that more money be spent on the ground for projects that help wildlife. You can demand that they spend more than 13.5% of your money on projects. You can demand to see where the expo money is going.

I may not be a member of SFW or a resident of Utah, but management decisions in your state do affect me. I always encourage non-residents to participate in Colorado's management process, because it affects them and it is their right. How many times have I seen people on this forum get mad about more deer tags in UT, or more spike tags, or more limited entry tags, and then say, "Colorado, here I come?" Just like dkpeay mentioned earlier in this thread about bear hunters increasing in UT when Colorado banned hunting with hounds. The decisions in other states DO affect you, and you should stay involved in the process.

I may just take the suggestions some of you have made about filing a request for the information. I'm getting more and more curious the longer questions go unanswered. And I'll be sure to post the information on the internet, good or bad, for all to see. I suspect that the information the state has is just as vague as the tax return, though.
 
>The fact
>that Don will actually get
>on here and present his
>case just makes it that
>much funner for them.

Now that's funny right there, I don't care who you are. If dkpeay actually did come on here and present his case, these threads would likely go away. But all we hear are the same old tired backslapping, and no answers to the questions asked.

I don't think anyone is saying that SFW is doing no good, and I don't think anyone is trying to shut SFW down. I'm not, anyway. I think that the projects dkpeay has brought up time and time again here are good things, and I applaud the hard work that has gone into them. I don't agree with wasting money on predator control, but I'm not a member of his group, so I have no say. I already let my membership with MDF expire because they insisted on wasting my money.

It seems that the favorite argument recently for supporting SFW despite the $ figures presented is "yeah, they take a lot of tags and I would like to see a better accounting, but they do more than any other group."

My only point is that it is YOUR group! It's not dkpeay's group. You have a say, and you should demand accountability. You don't have to take the bad with the good. You should get the good with NO bad. You don't have to allow your lobbyist (dkpeay) to throw your fishing access under the bus for the sake of political favors down the road. You can demand accountability from YOUR board of directors. You can demand that more money be spent on the ground for projects that help wildlife. You can demand that they spend more than 13.5% of your money on projects. You can demand to see where the expo money is going.

I may not be a member of SFW or a resident of Utah, but management decisions in your state do affect me. I always encourage non-residents to participate in Colorado's management process, because it affects them and it is their right. How many times have I seen people on this forum get mad about more deer tags in UT, or more spike tags, or more limited entry tags, and then say, "Colorado, here I come?" Just like dkpeay mentioned earlier in this thread about bear hunters increasing in UT when Colorado banned hunting with hounds. The decisions in other states DO affect you, and you should stay involved in the process.

I may just take the suggestions some of you have made about filing a request for the information. I'm getting more and more curious the longer questions go unanswered. And I'll be sure to post the information on the internet, good or bad, for all to see. I suspect that the information the state has is just as vague as the tax return, though.
 
So, you guys never answered my question. How do you feel about the amount percentage spent on wildlife and the 485K in "consulting" fees? Not a little dissapointed at all? Happy with the numbers? You guys are not at the least bit in wonder who got this and for what (consulting fees)? This is by the way your donated money, you have a right to wonder and ask. Do some google searching of Consulting, and add some names to it as well to see what comes up. lots of stuff to sift through.
Awholotta bull, my comments on MT were somewhat sarcastic in case you did not know. And by the way, yes there was ONE sheep tag in MT, and it put more money into the MT F&G than a ton of other tags raffled off in UT.
You guys in UT just don't get it, You see things have got better, but there was other ways, and still IS BETTER WAYS. It is not too late to change them now that the UT F&G is on a better path than a decade ago. Take back control of your public resources and take a look at how other states are doing it.
 
So, you guys never answered my question. How do you feel about the amount percentage spent on wildlife and the 485K in "consulting" fees? Not a little dissapointed at all? Happy with the numbers? You guys are not at the least bit in wonder who got this and for what (consulting fees)? This is by the way your donated money, you have a right to wonder and ask. Do some google searching of Consulting, and add some names to it as well to see what comes up. lots of stuff to sift through.
Awholotta bull, my comments on MT were somewhat sarcastic in case you did not know. And by the way, yes there was ONE sheep tag in MT, and it put more money into the MT F&G than a ton of other tags raffled off in UT.
You guys in UT just don't get it, You see things have got better, but there was other ways, and still IS BETTER WAYS. It is not too late to change them now that the UT F&G is on a better path than a decade ago. Take back control of your public resources and take a look at how other states are doing it.
 
ColoradoOak,

I am waiting for the heads of other groups to come on and say anything!

In truth it is not funny at all. Eventually Don will tire of the crap and leave. Then we will be left with individuals that only come on forums and #####. Alot of individuals come on here and say they want to get involved, they just would like more info before they committ to a group. WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP. Most of those indivuals have spent their life in the stands heckling and not actually getting in the fight. They will continue to do so long after Don and the SFW are gone. That is who they are and what they do.
 
ColoradoOak,

I am waiting for the heads of other groups to come on and say anything!

In truth it is not funny at all. Eventually Don will tire of the crap and leave. Then we will be left with individuals that only come on forums and #####. Alot of individuals come on here and say they want to get involved, they just would like more info before they committ to a group. WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP. Most of those indivuals have spent their life in the stands heckling and not actually getting in the fight. They will continue to do so long after Don and the SFW are gone. That is who they are and what they do.
 
There would be a lot less "crap" if there was some transparency in the first place. No one should get mad if there is nothing to hide right?
 
There would be a lot less "crap" if there was some transparency in the first place. No one should get mad if there is nothing to hide right?
 
I think people get a little worried when they look at those projects that they do.Alot of these projects are on private land they do some on public,and thats great when I see that.I think one thing SFW could do better is when some of us ask them a question about a certain unit and to see where thay stand on cetain issues I never here a reply,I know it's hard to answer alot of quetions about so many different issues but it would help out with their image that they do show some intrest when someones looking to join SFW. Im talking about Emails and letters
 
I think people get a little worried when they look at those projects that they do.Alot of these projects are on private land they do some on public,and thats great when I see that.I think one thing SFW could do better is when some of us ask them a question about a certain unit and to see where thay stand on cetain issues I never here a reply,I know it's hard to answer alot of quetions about so many different issues but it would help out with their image that they do show some intrest when someones looking to join SFW. Im talking about Emails and letters
 
If you don't like the SFW go start your own wildlife organization, collect donations and go fix whatever problems you think can/need to be fixed. In other words, quit bitching and go do something.
 
If you don't like the SFW go start your own wildlife organization, collect donations and go fix whatever problems you think can/need to be fixed. In other words, quit bitching and go do something.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-09 AT 08:10AM (MST)[p]After reading more than half of the responses I would conclude the following.
1- I am not a member but will become one.
2- Reading the pros and what the SFW has done greatly outways some of the complaints.
3- I am surprised that Don spent so much time and energy arguing with people that he just want to poke and poke. I do understand people want to see were the money is spent but to some extent. When you pay your taxes were does it go??????????
4- Don't want to ruffle anyones feathers here but it seems this thread is more of a bit ch and wine session with not a-lot of solutions.
5- Can I finance my membership. Wait it's not that much is it??
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-09 AT 08:10AM (MST)[p]After reading more than half of the responses I would conclude the following.
1- I am not a member but will become one.
2- Reading the pros and what the SFW has done greatly outways some of the complaints.
3- I am surprised that Don spent so much time and energy arguing with people that he just want to poke and poke. I do understand people want to see were the money is spent but to some extent. When you pay your taxes were does it go??????????
4- Don't want to ruffle anyones feathers here but it seems this thread is more of a bit ch and wine session with not a-lot of solutions.
5- Can I finance my membership. Wait it's not that much is it??
 
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-09
>AT 08:10?AM (MST)

>
>After reading more than half of
>the responses I would conclude
>the following.
>1- I am not a member
>but will become one.
>2- Reading the pros and what
>the SFW has done greatly
>outways some of the complaints.
>
>3- I am surprised that Don
>spent so much time and
>energy arguing with people that
>he just want to poke
>and poke. I do understand
>people want to see were
>the money is spent but
>to some extent. When you
>pay your taxes were does
>it go??????????
>4- Don't want to ruffle anyones
>feathers here but it seems
>this thread is more of
>a bit ch and wine
>session with not a-lot of
>solutions.
>5- Can I finance my membership.
>Wait it's not that much
>is it??


Thats got to be the best reply I have heard on this topic. Hopefully this thread can now die...
 
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-09
>AT 08:10?AM (MST)

>
>After reading more than half of
>the responses I would conclude
>the following.
>1- I am not a member
>but will become one.
>2- Reading the pros and what
>the SFW has done greatly
>outways some of the complaints.
>
>3- I am surprised that Don
>spent so much time and
>energy arguing with people that
>he just want to poke
>and poke. I do understand
>people want to see were
>the money is spent but
>to some extent. When you
>pay your taxes were does
>it go??????????
>4- Don't want to ruffle anyones
>feathers here but it seems
>this thread is more of
>a bit ch and wine
>session with not a-lot of
>solutions.
>5- Can I finance my membership.
>Wait it's not that much
>is it??


Thats got to be the best reply I have heard on this topic. Hopefully this thread can now die...
 
Morale of a very long and drawnout story..................

Anyone that gets the public auction tags will have the money!!!!

Period end of the story!!!!

So for everyone that is saying the money that SFW gives is "alot" I call bullsh_t!!

Give me 100/someodd of UTAH's Prem.LE, LE, and OIL permits and I would have "ALOT" of money to give back to habitat as well!!!

I only make around 40,000 a year at my job, yet I have enough money to attend these addicting damn banquets!!!

So what should be reasonable admin. fees!!!

Do non-profit organizations get to name their price, since they don't supposedly make a profit!!!!! Wierd !!!!!

My last beef.... if you are defending them, then I am willing to bet that you benefit in some way from them!!!
 
Morale of a very long and drawnout story..................

Anyone that gets the public auction tags will have the money!!!!

Period end of the story!!!!

So for everyone that is saying the money that SFW gives is "alot" I call bullsh_t!!

Give me 100/someodd of UTAH's Prem.LE, LE, and OIL permits and I would have "ALOT" of money to give back to habitat as well!!!

I only make around 40,000 a year at my job, yet I have enough money to attend these addicting damn banquets!!!

So what should be reasonable admin. fees!!!

Do non-profit organizations get to name their price, since they don't supposedly make a profit!!!!! Wierd !!!!!

My last beef.... if you are defending them, then I am willing to bet that you benefit in some way from them!!!
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom