Sad planning for your last hunt

hossblur

Long Time Member
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10,414
Just turned 47, thanks to none of you for Venmo b day presents?

20 moose
6 elk
Last year dedicated

Im sitting here looking at data, stats.

ID like to draw a decent deer unit one time. Figure that's a 20 year process.

So, im toying with the idea of Archery LE, Wasatch. If i wait to try to draw my beloved Manti muzzy tag im realistically 10 years off.

Im not a great bowhunter. But with the extra days into the rut, and the long road for a deer tag, Ive been thinking of being done with elk this year.

Point systems are a joke. Dudes at 47yr old shouldn't be planning their last hunt.

Kids getting started shouldn't be faced with OIL for a damn elk or deer.

Ive read every "reason" for points. But it simply boils down to a Ponzi scheme. Set up to reward old dudes. Of which I am one.
 
OP = dramatic teenage girl who can't figure out what dress to wear to the dance and whether tommy is going to ask her out.

Stop being so dramatic, you can hunt every year if you want to. Your kids will be able to hunt every year if they want to.

Stop the crying!
 
I feel like my eyes are pretty wide open when it comes to the points game. I refuse to concentrate my thoughts on the negatives. I did not enter the the points game till I was 42 years old. My original plan was to build points for retirement. Now that retirement is near I have 12-15 points in most western states. Along the way I have drawn some great tags, elk in Nevada and Arizona, deer in Utah, and antelope in Nevada and Wyoming.

We were taught the laws of supply and demand in school. Sometimes I think guys here skipped class that day. We can not print a tag for everyone that wants one and properly manage our resource. Since we can't print more tags should we raise the price? How high would the price need to be to not sell the last Henry Mountain deer tag any given year? Raising the price of the resource to match supply and demand would be far less popular than the point systems.

I have never drawn a sheep tag and I may never get one. I am not ever going to hunt elk in unit 9 with a rifle during the rut. Henry Mountain deer tag?...Nope. But I am thankful for the tags I have drawn and I have a lot of options for new places to go in the near future. My hunting glass is half full
 
I feel like my eyes are pretty wide open when it comes to the points game. I refuse to concentrate my thoughts on the negatives. I did not enter the the points game till I was 42 years old. My original plan was to build points for retirement. Now that retirement is near I have 12-15 points in most western states. Along the way I have drawn some great tags, elk in Nevada and Arizona, deer in Utah, and antelope in Nevada and Wyoming.

We were taught the laws of supply and demand in school. Sometimes I think guys here skipped class that day. We can not print a tag for everyone that wants one and properly manage our resource. Since we can't print more tags should we raise the price? How high would the price need to be to not sell the last Henry Mountain deer tag any given year? Raising the price of the resource to match supply and demand would be far less popular than the point systems.

I have never drawn a sheep tag and I may never get one. I am not ever going to hunt elk in unit 9 with a rifle during the rut. Henry Mountain deer tag?...Nope. But I am thankful for the tags I have drawn and I have a lot of options for new places to go in the near future. My hunting glass is half full


The law of supply and demand doesnt include Ponzi schemes.
 
The law of supply and demand doesnt include Ponzi schemes.
:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry: If you think its a ponzi scheme why are you participating? You would be a damn fool to be a part of a ponzi scheme if you know it is one. Thats the whole scheme part. People don't know it is one till its too late.

hossblurred, the first person to join a ponzi scheme on purpose and continue participation in it o_Oo_Oo_Oo_O
 
We really need to start keeping count how many yearly posts are made on this topic.

im 30. I’ve had 2 LE muzzy elk tags, 1 LE pronghorn tag, a moose OIL tag and I’ll probably draw pronghorn this year and mtn goat the next. Apply. You never know when lightning will strike.

ps my kid who will be 3 this year, will draw a LE elk tag his first year he can hunt big game. He will also have a bear and lion tag I will mentor to him. There are ways to ensure your kids have hunts in the future. Plan now and don’t be selfish if kids opportunities are really a priority.
 
I often wonder how many old-timers will drop out of the draw with their high point tallies in the coming 5-8 years...maybe some hope to finally draw something. That's about all the bright side I can find, besides dumb luck.
 
I agree with desperatehills and try not to focus on the negative. But you're right, its deflating looking at the statistics. I'm 43 and have 18 deer points and 19 moose points. I may never draw a moose tag & I'm afraid I'm still years out on drawing a deer tag and haven't hunted general season deer in 3 years.
 
:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry: If you think its a ponzi scheme why are you participating? You would be a damn fool to be a part of a ponzi scheme if you know it is one. Thats the whole scheme part. People don't know it is one till its too late.

hossblurred, the first person to join a ponzi scheme on purpose and continue participation in it o_Oo_Oo_Oo_O
SS. Go back to your igloo. Your negativity runs strong young man.
 
Here’s some salt for your wounds:

I drew as a NR:

Willard Peak mountain goat with 2 pts
Henry’s rifle deer tag with 1 pt.
Henry’s Buffalo tag with 14 pts
Boulder archery elk with 13 pts
Archery elk NV 111-115 with 11 pts
NM Valle Vidal muzzy tag 1st time applying

you never know! Just gotta keep
Playing the game.
 
Just turned 47, thanks to none of you for Venmo b day presents?

20 moose
6 elk
Last year dedicated

Im sitting here looking at data, stats.

ID like to draw a decent deer unit one time. Figure that's a 20 year process.

So, im toying with the idea of Archery LE, Wasatch. If i wait to try to draw my beloved Manti muzzy tag im realistically 10 years off.

Im not a great bowhunter. But with the extra days into the rut, and the long road for a deer tag, Ive been thinking of being done with elk this year.

Point systems are a joke. Dudes at 47yr old shouldn't be planning their last hunt.

Kids getting started shouldn't be faced with OIL for a damn elk or deer.

Ive read every "reason" for points. But it simply boils down to a Ponzi scheme. Set up to reward old dudes. Of which I am one.
I agree with you on several levels. The "trophy" or "high quality" units are going to take forever to draw. I've decided to chase some of the better units in a couple states, and draw average units every 3-4 years in the other ones. I'm just a little older than you, and playing the points game is tough.
 
Hoss, sorry this tread got a little off track. Back to your original question. Should you burn points now and switch to deer.

Which hunt would you enjoy more, a Manti muzzy hunt in 10 years for elk or a mule deer hunt in 20 years at 67 years old? There is no doubt you would have a good time hunting the Wasatch but you may always regret the compromise. How are your mule deer points in other states? I think you should try to find your mule deer fix elsewhere. No one can predict what the hunts will be like in 20 years.

Best of luck in the draws either way.
 
This topic is tired and old....
1. The resource is Finite, and there simply isn’t enough to go around.
2. Human population explosion in the West is real, and makes #1 even more of an issue.
3. The Information Age- with everyone on YouTube, and IG, FB, etc., people are becoming aware of the good opportunities, and it increases competition, and they’re getting out there applying for tags.
4. Huntin’ Fool, Epic, GoHunt, etc. make #3 worse.

If you hate point systems, then apply in Idaho, and New Mexico, because they don’t have one. Then after 20 years of not drawing (it’s simple math), maybe some level of certainty will be more appealing.
I apply in just about all the states, and I can tell you, the only way I’ve been able to plan on having tags, is in the states with Points. I haven’t drawn in NM in years, and never in Idaho.
 
It is good to see more hunters realizing how bad point systems are for them. I'm surprised there are still hunters that think point systems are a good idea. The math isn't really complicated. Point systems are a Ponzi scheme. Unfortunately you have to participate in the Ponzi scheme if you are interested in hunting most Western states.

I've drawn multiple tags in NM and Idaho. I prefer their draw system over all other states. I would gladly given up all my points in MT, WY, CO, UT, NV and AZ if they were to switch to a random draw.
 
Hoss, sorry this tread got a little off track. Back to your original question. Should you burn points now and switch to deer.

Which hunt would you enjoy more, a Manti muzzy hunt in 10 years for elk or a mule deer hunt in 20 years at 67 years old? There is no doubt you would have a good time hunting the Wasatch but you may always regret the compromise. How are your mule deer points in other states? I think you should try to find your mule deer fix elsewhere. No one can predict what the hunts will be like in 20 years.

Best of luck in the draws either way.


It was a done deal until I realized school started a week earlier than I thought. Having the boys with me a solid week was the ticket. So now its back to the back and forth.
 
I feel your pain Hoss!

closed the final chapter of the “Good ole’ days!”

We are now in the era of “Kill em while you can!”

And the point system ain’t doing us any favors as more folks join the long line to take a crack at what little quality is left!

With new technology and flat brim party hunting, there’s very few places for animals to hide and grow big!

Because like was said earlier, human population ain’t shrinking and neither is the urge for new gen hunters to top off their ego’s with blood money trophies!
 
Well said blood..I'm sitting here at 72y.o. and wondering if I'll get another crack at a general season deer tag, but on the bright side I did see most of the (good ol days)
 
I feel your pain Hoss!

closed the final chapter of the “Good ole’ days!”

We are now in the era of “Kill em while you can!”

And the point system ain’t doing us any favors as more folks join the long line to take a crack at what little quality is left!

With new technology and flat brim party hunting, there’s very few places for animals to hide and grow big!

Because like was said earlier, human population ain’t shrinking and neither is the urge for new gen hunters to top off their ego’s with blood money trophies!


Yup!!!!!!
 
there’s guys that make excuses and guys that get it done. @deerkiller gets it done.
back'er down big fella. Hoss was just making a comment about the Utah point system, and other point systems that make it hard to draw quality areas.
Yes, we can all hunt general season tags, and be successful, but his point is valid. I know not everyone is as an accomplished hunter as yourself, so please share a little bit of your wisdom with the group.
 
back'er down big fella. Hoss was just making a comment about the Utah point system, and other point systems that make it hard to draw quality areas.
Yes, we can all hunt general season tags, and be successful, but his point is valid. I know not everyone is as an accomplished hunter as yourself, so please share a little bit of your wisdom with the group.
He wasn’t making a point. He’s crying about what he calls a Ponzi scheme that he participates in. There’s a big difference in being a dramatic cry baby and trying to start a discussion regarding points system. “My last hunt”. Really? Are only hard to draw tags hunts?

Ive shared plenty of wisdom here but never claimed to be an accomplished hunter. You on the other hand ????..
 
So your saying I should just go kill a ut buff no matter what ss?
If you wanted a buff so bad why didn’t you do the hunt this guy did?



@heywouldya let’s hear your hossburr excuses now...
 
If you wanted a buff so bad why didn’t you do the hunt this guy did?



@heywouldya let’s hear your hossburr excuses now...
I really don't wanna give up 21 points on slim chance SS!
 
...or 21 Utah desert sheep points?

...or 21 Utah NR moose points?

...or 12 points for elk or bison?
 
Add up all the application fees and then realize how much hunting gear you could have purchased and been using if you would have just avoided the draws in the first place.?
You're a buzz killer:ROFLMAO:. There's still time to apply for Wyoming and Arizona, right:)
 
...or 21 Utah desert sheep points?

...or 21 Utah NR moose points?

...or 12 points for elk or bison?
Just curious here, how do you have 21 points for both sheep and moose? I thought you had to choose one or the other. NR have been able to apply for all for only the last 12 years.

Maybe your post was more of a "what if" I had 21 points. I just like to know the rules. The point systems have been good to me only because I know the rules and the math and keep my expectations realistic.
 
We really need to start keeping count how many yearly posts are made on this topic.

im 30. I’ve had 2 LE muzzy elk tags, 1 LE pronghorn tag, a moose OIL tag and I’ll probably draw pronghorn this year and mtn goat the next. Apply. You never know when lightning will strike.

ps my kid who will be 3 this year, will draw a LE elk tag his first year he can hunt big game. He will also have a bear and lion tag I will mentor to him. There are ways to ensure your kids have hunts in the future. Plan now and don’t be selfish if kids opportunities are really a priority.
You've definitely had some luck deerkiller. Congrats on that.

Also, what state let's you put in children.?
 
Just turned 47, thanks to none of you for Venmo b day presents?

20 moose
6 elk
Last year dedicated

Im sitting here looking at data, stats.

ID like to draw a decent deer unit one time. Figure that's a 20 year process.

So, im toying with the idea of Archery LE, Wasatch. If i wait to try to draw my beloved Manti muzzy tag im realistically 10 years off.

Im not a great bowhunter. But with the extra days into the rut, and the long road for a deer tag, Ive been thinking of being done with elk this year.

Point systems are a joke. Dudes at 47yr old shouldn't be planning their last hunt.

Kids getting started shouldn't be faced with OIL for a damn elk or deer.

Ive read every "reason" for points. But it simply boils down to a Ponzi scheme. Set up to reward old dudes. Of which I am one.
You're quite a bit like me hoss. I don't look at random tags as a plan. Only the guaranteed ones. I always look at the points system as a line. Like, How many people are in front if you. Anyway, if you want to hunt deer, each year you wait lets people in front of you in line. I personally think UT manages LE elk terribly, but if you want an Archery elk hunt, go do it, enjoy it, and if you are happy with the hunt alone and no 'guarantee' of an elk, you'll be satisfied.
 
You're quite a bit like me hoss. I don't look at random tags as a plan. Only the guaranteed ones. I always look at the points system as a line. Like, How many people are in front if you. Anyway, if you want to hunt deer, each year you wait lets people in front of you in line. I personally think UT manages LE elk terribly, but if you want an Archery elk hunt, go do it, enjoy it, and if you are happy with the hunt alone and no 'guarantee' of an elk, you'll be satisfied.


I want the experiences more than the inches. Im fine with smaller bulls, if I can hunt them more. Archery dates are pretty cool this year
 
Add up all the application fees and then realize how much hunting gear you could have purchased and been using if you would have just avoided the draws in the first place.?
I have all the hunting gear I'll ever need...and it gets used a lot each year. Admittedly last year was a bit slow, with only killing 4 elk and 2 deer. Helped good friends/family with 7 other elk, a couple pronghorn and another half dozen deer though.

Application fees are just the cost of doing business...and chump change.
 
Just curious here, how do you have 21 points for both sheep and moose? I thought you had to choose one or the other. NR have been able to apply for all for only the last 12 years.

Maybe your post was more of a "what if" I had 21 points. I just like to know the rules. The point systems have been good to me only because I know the rules and the math and keep my expectations realistic.
I have 21 for deer and 21 for sheep...wife has 21 for deer and 21 for moose.
 
Anyone have any ideas what to do with 21 NR Utah deer points?
You could do the Paunsaugunt Management rifle hunt.
My son drew it last year with 21 nonresident points.
We had a great time, killed a nice buck in some beautiful country.
Another hunt that I think would be good is the Pine Valley limited entry muzzleloader hunt. The dates are late enough that it should catch some rut activity and if you put in your time to learn the area you should do well.
 
Probably not in the market for a management hunt with 21 points.

Glad you and your son had a good hunt though and understand why some just want to hunt.

I've shot a lot of deer in my life, I have time.
 
Probably not in the market for a management hunt with 21 points.

Glad you and your son had a good hunt though and understand why some just want to hunt.

I've shot a lot of deer in my life, I have time.
I get what you’re saying.
I was thinking more about for your wife. It is a fairly easy hunt where you see a lot of deer in interesting country.
Kind of like sightseeing and hunting at the same time.
For you with 21 points you are out of the running for the top-tier hunts.
I suggested the Pine Valley limited entry muzzy for you to consider.
 
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