Season Setting Comments

[ICMDEER]

The Wyo G&F recently completed their season setting meetings. I was disappointed there were not more people at our local meetings. (We had 6 in Wheatland; average age was about 70.) The meetings are just not well attended, but they were not advertised or publicized in our area.

So I would ask for your help. Please consider submitting comments. The link for comments can be found at:

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Get-Involved/Public-Meetings.

Comments are due by March 29. You can also mail them, but that needs to be done by Monday to ensure they arrive on time.

In particular, if you have comments about the doe season in deer area 15 they would be appreciated. Some background for your thoughts:

Herd Objective Population: 20,000
Current herd population: 6,100

There are currently 250 any doe licenses and 400 whitetail doe licenses. The doe season is one month for archery and three full months for rifle. So four full months of doe hunting.

The area west (59/64) of us also has any doe licenses. But only 100. And it is a 15 day season. And only valid on private lands.

On our place, we have a terrible time with road hunters killing does. They seem desperate, There's a 120 acre piece of BLM that the county road runs through. Road hunters, most often with a six pack on the seat, drive back and forth, back and forth until a doe hits the BLM (or close to it). Then the does are often shot from the road or vehicle. We witness this and report it, but nothing has happened so far. Just an endless stream of road hunters on a 3/4 mile long piece of BLM. Those road hunters shot one doe on our small BLM lease from the road on Dec 30th and the deer was right in the middle (within a few yards) of 30+ head of cows. The hunters also often shoot toward our house and buildings. And they trespass.

The G&F folks say some landowners want does killed. I have repeatedly asked for names of those landowners, but NONE have ever been provided. All of the landowners in our area want more deer and don't want the does killed.

I've seen as many as 4-5 fawns with not a single doe around them this winter. They eventually find a group of does, but those fawns seem about half lost before they find a group to "hang out" with.

So if the herd is at about 30% of the objective and no one wants does killed, why on earth do we have a three-month rifle season for does? It just makes zero sense. We are already short about 14,000 deer toward meeting our objective, so why reduce the herd further by shooting does? We are trying to increase deer numbers but G&F is insistent on shooting the does.

I asked for no doe season, but even if the season was short and on only private lands, like the other areas, it would really help us. Just like areas 59/64 to our west.

There are links to all of the proposed seasons on the G&F website. I believe they are found under the Commission header.

Comments are due on March 29th. Please take the time to review the information and make your thoughts known.

Thanks and good hunting. And for reading my rant........

 

[grosventrehunter]

Ok so you don't like hunters shooting your doe on 3/4 acre BLM. Got it.....

 

[ICMDEER]

HaHa. True. But I don't want mule deer does shot period. At least not till the herd is at the objective population.

There are a lot more opportunities for making comments than just what I mentioned. Your time might better spent doing that than making smart-assed comments to me.

 

[elkantlers]

@ICMDEER
You probably didn't mean it that way but your comments come off as very entitled. From your story it sounds like the doe hunt should be eliminated this year. But coming from a hunter standpoint I fully support hunters utilizing that public piece. I find it interesting that you are worried about someone shooting a doe on public all the while your cows are grazing it.
I don't condone drinking and hunting or shooting towards a home, just to make that clear.

 

[ICMDEER]

OK. Valid. Sorry if I came across that way. But I am sick of 30 years of slobs running back and forth on that road drinking and shooting from vehicles at our house and property. We are literally scared to go outside for 3 months of the year in the evening. And we've called and have never gotten a Game Warden to come out. We even had one guy come right through our yard and shoot a mule deer doe in the hayfield next to the house. I called the Game Warden and he refused to come because he knew the guy and said he is a good guy that had helped with hunter safety and it would be bad for G&F and the hunter safety program if the word got out the hunter did that.

If the hunters were ethical, and parked the vehicle, slid up on the points and actually hunted, I would feel differently. I do not see that.

And I still see ZERO BIOLOGICAL NEED to be shooting mule deer does.

By the way, we have let folks come and hunt if they ask and will shoot a whitetail doe. And we've let kids shoot whitetail bucks. But we are trying to save the mule deer.

I hope you can see that perspective.

You guys can try to beat on me all you want, but I'm gonna defend this one. There is absolutely no reason for the three month rifle doe season and absolutely no reason for those hunters to behave the way they do.

As sportsmen, it would seem you could at least once see a reasonable perspective from a long-term guy on this forum who has not bitched or gotten involved an the ongoing controversies or been a mud slinger on MM. This is a bad season and bad behavior. And yes, sorry if I came across in a way that perturbed folks. Not my intention. But as I said, bad season and bad behavior. Defend the season and defend the behavior before you start picking on me. That's the issue here.

 

[elkantlers]

@ICMDEER
You probably didn't mean it that way but your comments come off as very entitled. From your story it sounds like the doe hunt should be eliminated this year. But coming from a hunter standpoint I fully support hunters utilizing that public piece. I find it interesting that you are worried about someone shooting a doe on public all the while your cows are grazing it.
I don't condone drinking and hunting or shooting towards a home, just to make that clear.

I agreed with you.

 

[ICMDEER]

I agreed with you.

Thanks and I appreciate that. Be sure to send any and all comments on seasons to G&F. Not just this but any input.

Thanks again and as I wrote in the original post; good hunting.

 

[DoubleDropMuley]

Don’t be scared , shoot back ?, all seriousness I agree on the doe hunts especially the Muley does, I commented on our local heards but I will comment, over that way as well!! I’ll watch the presentation on G&F site first to see what is said for sure, but I watched a few already and misinformation was on them like one said no changes to region H and it was staying the same quota but another was correct on that a cut of 100 was being proposed !!

 

[nfh]

Well here is the problem at our local meetings. To many best freinds forever crap going on with game wardens and other staff. Luckily the most guilty warden of this behavior was asked to leave for several reasons amd hopefully the new warden does not fall into that path.

We have split into little workshops in the past and it's amazing to see all of the public agree on issues. Roll the clock forward and the complete opposite is done everytime. All agree on less doe tags but yet nothing changes.

If you throw a hard ball question the excuse of we will talk to you after the meeting comes up. So after the meeting they're with their best freind forever and blow you off or they gotta get home. Or they will answer the question with something way off topic or I will get you a response to email you left us.

Don't get me wrong , always have the typical guy at the meeting that never draws a tag or never kills a buck from the road when they hunted a whole 2 days straight before giving up. Those guys easily divert a meeting into the wrong direction.


I struggle at the meetings especially when they ingore the real issue and bring up cwd and make that the topic for decline in deer numbers.

At every meeting I bring up the 4 point or better rule. I always ask what happened and the response is they saw no change. I respond shouldn't it be in effect for a long time period. But yet they try it for a year and have a conclusion immediately seems foolish.

 

[ICMDEER]

Don’t be scared , shoot back ?, all seriousness I agree on the doe hunts especially the Muley does, I commented on our local heards but I will comment, over that way as well!! I’ll watch the presentation on G&F site first to see what is said for sure, but I watched a few already and misinformation was on them like one said no changes to region H and it was staying the same quota but another was correct on that a cut of 100 was being proposed !!

Thanks Double Drop. Much appreciated. And don't think we haven't thought about shooting back. My wife, kids and now grandkids live here and their safety is paramount to me.

 

[ICMDEER]

Well here is the problem at our local meetings. To many best freinds forever crap going on with game wardens and other staff. Luckily the most guilty warden of this behavior was asked to leave for several reasons amd hopefully the new warden does not fall into that path.

We have split into little workshops in the past and it's amazing to see all of the public agree on issues. Roll the clock forward and the complete opposite is done everytime. All agree on less doe tags but yet nothing changes.

If you throw a hard ball question the excuse of we will talk to you after the meeting comes up. So after the meeting they're with their best freind forever and blow you off or they gotta get home. Or they will answer the question with something way off topic or I will get you a response to email you left us.

Don't get me wrong , always have they typical guy at the meeting that never draws a tag or never kills a buck from the road when they hunted a whole 2 days straight before giving up. Those guys easily divert a meeting into the wrong direction.


I struggle at the meetings especially when they ingore the real issue and bring up cwd and make that the topic for decline in deer numbers.

At every meeting I bring up the 4 point or better rule. I always ask what happened and the response is they saw no change. I respond shouldn't it be in effect for a long time period. But yet they try it for a year and have a conclusion immediately seems foolish.

Couldn't have said it better nfh. Same deal here, but that has gone on so long, no one even attends our meetings any more. People have completely given up due to exactly what you have described. Sad situation and a tough deal. But we have to keep trying.

This makes me think the importance of attending the Commission meetings is even greater. Thanks to those who do go and speak on behalf of our wildlife.

 

[kickerbuck]

I'm from another state, but commend you for fighting to save any Mule Deer doe period! I have to put my kids in for youth doe tags in Oregon just to try and draw them to keep them from people who will actually kill a doe MD and not even consider how awful it is!

As for Game Wardens not responding to your road hunting/hunting from motor vehicles calls that's a real shame! And to say they can't respond bc a guy helps with Hunter Ed is even worse! Nothing should be taken personal and no favorites when it comes to stuff like that. Wrong is wrong and sometimes there are consequences in life.

With that said keep up the good work trying to save some Mule Deer does!!!

 

[mightyhunter]

Well here is the problem at our local meetings. To many best freinds forever crap going on with game wardens and other staff. Luckily the most guilty warden of this behavior was asked to leave for several reasons amd hopefully the new warden does not fall into that path.

We have split into little workshops in the past and it's amazing to see all of the public agree on issues. Roll the clock forward and the complete opposite is done everytime. All agree on less doe tags but yet nothing changes.

If you throw a hard ball question the excuse of we will talk to you after the meeting comes up. So after the meeting they're with their best freind forever and blow you off or they gotta get home. Or they will answer the question with something way off topic or I will get you a response to email you left us.

Don't get me wrong , always have the typical guy at the meeting that never draws a tag or never kills a buck from the road when they hunted a whole 2 days straight before giving up. Those guys easily divert a meeting into the wrong direction.


I struggle at the meetings especially when they ingore the real issue and bring up cwd and make that the topic for decline in deer numbers.

At every meeting I bring up the 4 point or better rule. I always ask what happened and the response is they saw no change. I respond shouldn't it be in effect for a long time period. But yet they try it for a year and have a conclusion immediately seems foolish.

NFH, knows what he is talking about. The cronyism in the Cody Region is alive and well. I was unable to attend the meeting in Powell or Cody because a family tragedy has me in Utah. I don’t understand why the JCR is not published before these meetings. It requires you to wait until the meeting to digest the information that is given to you last minute. In the alternative, you can request the info you specifically want for a unit or units and hope they give it to you.

This year the management team for deer unit 106 (Clark’s Fork Herd) claimed 56 mule deer bucks harvested during the general. The facts behind this were very suspect. G&F checked 8 bucks for the season. Most, if not all of those bucks, were youngsters. I was told by the lead biologist that they had no info for the harvest voluntarily reported in the postseason. So 8 grew to 56. Huh. This is a unit where the mule deer are migratory. This year the migration was late just like 2021. With an early season close and no weather the harvest is poor.

After the 2021 season, the doe/fawn ratio was way up. After the wettest spring and incredible forage in 2022 the doe/fawn miraculously dropped by 20. This was nearly an all time low for the last 15 years in 106. I personally don’t believe the reporting after the numbers of fawns I saw during the season and after the season.

The G&F after cutting the last 14 days of the season off in 106, over the past 15 years,
has nothing to show but continued failure. In the private sector, these biologists would be looking for work. Just sayin...mh

 

[elks96]

We have definitely sent in comments. We need a conservative approach. Local meetings were interesting. Left me feeling like they have no idea what to do, and that they are not really sure what happened.

Funny, last November, everything was great, numbers good and increases coming etc. now they don’t really know. They have no idea what the winter kill would be, as a result they really are not sure what to do…

Surprised to find that there is no flights occurring and that counts are difficult as they can access the land in most vehicles etc.

All my comments were for great restrictions, decrease in NR quotas for regions deer, and elimination of all doe fawn tags under objective…

 

[rocky2track]

FYI, just posting this up in a couple spots.

Pinedale Town Hall to discuss wildlife impacted by severe winter weather March 30 (posted 3/27/2023) Wyoming Governor Mark Gordon media release Governor Mark Gordon and Wyoming Game and Fish Director Brian Nesvik have announced a town hall meeting on Thursday, March 30, at the Pinedale Library. The forum's focus is to provide an update on the status of Wyoming wildlife impacted by the extreme winter weather and obtain residents' input. Wyoming residents, state legislators and local elected officials are invited to attend in person or virtually through Zoom. Following a brief presentation by the Wyoming Game and Fish, the meeting will be opened for questions and comments by the public. The town hall meeting will be on Thursday, March 30, 2023 from 4-5:30 pm in the Lovatt Room of the Pinedale Library, 155 S. Tyler Ave. A Zoom option will be available: Join Zoom Meeting: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81254960795?pwd=SjhPZW1hTFE0dlpwMm9ibzJ1dmNGUT09#success Meeting ID: 812 5496 0795 Passcode: 612694​

 

[nontypical]

I sure hope Gov Gordon has a plan to save our deer!! Why in the heck is he going to be there? Seems odd. I guess since the politicians can save all of us from ourselves, they can save the deer too?!

I gotta admit, I used to never miss a G&F meeting. I've been involved with several conservation groups over the years (none now...whew!), so I always attended! Now I never go. Like NFH said, it just turns into a bs session and rarely does G&F make changes recommended by any attendees. I realize that many recommendations and comments can be way out there, but there are also many valid suggestions that are simply ignored.

I got frustrated and quit going to the meetings...but they will never quit hearing from me.

Muleys just don't get no respect from G&F for some reason. And that's BS.

 

[jm77]

I sure hope Gov Gordon has a plan to save our deer!! Why in the heck is he going to be there? Seems odd. I guess since the politicians can save all of us from ourselves, they can save the deer too?!

I gotta admit, I used to never miss a G&F meeting. I've been involved with several conservation groups over the years (none now...whew!), so I always attended! Now I never go. Like NFH said, it just turns into a bs session and rarely does G&F make changes recommended by any attendees. I realize that many recommendations and comments can be way out there, but there are also many valid suggestions that are simply ignored.

I got frustrated and quit going to the meetings...but they will never quit hearing from me.

Muleys just don't get no respect from G&F for some reason. And that's BS.

This^^^ They have a new method now @nontypical to circumvent the public. They decide on a new change, license type or season, and the general public never hears about or sees it until a month before the Commissioners vote on it.

Recently, the Casper District guys held an impromptu meeting where a half dozen of us were invited and told to bring whomever we wanted to talk about CWD and what we could stomach as far as killing more bucks. It didn't go their way as there was over whelming opposition to killing more deer. No matter, they already had a plan to start reducing mule deer numbers in a local area that is drastically under objective, by issuing a type 7 doe tag. This was not mentioned at our meeting and wasn't seen by the public until March 15th. When they presented it at the season setting meeting, the bio told us that the area is a "hot bed" of CWD. I asked for the numbers and he conveniently did not have them. I called the G&F lab and was told there were 43 total tests for CWD in the last three years in the area. If they can make drastic management decisions based on 43 CWD tests, they can simply do whatever they feel like doing.

 

[HiMtnHntr]

Don’t you hate going to a meeting only to find out a decision has already been made? Seems to be the way of leadership of late.

 

[nontypical]

Why did they limit the number of people that wanted to watch the zoom presentation?

 

[mulecreek]

Why did they limit the number of people that wanted to watch the zoom presentation?

It’s a setting on zoom. Either they didn’t request more or couldn’t. They tried to fix it but apparently didn’t

 

[junior]

Thats BS