Second Drawing

I figured I had about a 0% chance of drawing, but I applied for a tag anyway. It wasn’t hard to know that most of the tags were going to the youth, which is fine by me. We need more kids out in the field. It also wasn’t hard to pull up the primary draw statistics for a unit and see how many youth had applied for that particular hunt and were unsuccessful. Meaning they were probably going to be in the secondary draw and sucking up all those tags.
 
I think CPW was hoping that new people would apply (that didn’t put in for 1st drawing). That would mean they have to buy the “qualifying license”. If those people know about how it is being done; those apps will surely dry up.
 
I didn’t look at all the tags. But I know the ones that I did look at were the not paid for tags. And everyone of them went to youth. So there’s fuel for the fire right there. ? And as for me I drew my tag on the primary draw so I didn’t have to go through the second draw. So I’m just a casual observer but congratulations to the youth and everybody else that drew..
Curious how you know that "everyone of them went to youth?" I was also curious and in order to confirm that, seems like you'd need to have the results posted. I've seen a few people say they don't post that data but I'm not certain of that. Have you seen the data somewhere?
 
Curious how you know that "everyone of them went to youth?" I was also curious and in order to confirm that, seems like you'd need to have the results posted. I've seen a few people say they don't post that data but I'm not certain of that. Have you seen the data somewhere?
Yep the second draw stats are up.. You can go in and look at the numbers ..?
 
I did not apply for the second drawing this year but my brother did, as did over 250 adults who applied for the tag he wanted. There were 6 tags available. So he should have had about a 1 in 40 chance. However there were 20 youth applicants. So he wasn’t even in the drawing for a tag. He and I won’t be applying next year even if there is a tag we want

They can leave it as is and there will be a dramatic drop in applicants next year, or they could tweak it and still get applicants. They could only give youth preference on the first choice or just allocate 50% of the tags to youth

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think it terrible to GiVE 100% of the tags to youth. But it’s wrong to take money from people that have no chance at a tag, even just the price of a burger and fries
 
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I did not apply for the second drawing this year but my brother did, as did over 250 adults who applied for the tag he wanted. There were 6 tags available. So he should have had about a 1 in 40 chance. However there were 20 youth applicants. So he wasn’t even in the drawing for a tag. He and I won’t be applying next year even if there is a tag we want

They can leave it as is and there will be a dramatic drop in applicants next year, or they could tweak it and still get applicants. They could only give youth preference on the first choice or just allocate 50% of the tags to youth

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think it terrible to GiVE 100% of the tags to youth. But it’s wrong to take money from people that have no chance at a tag, even just the price of a burger and fries
Spot on right here.
 
People apply across the West every year with ZERO chance of drawing the tags they applied for. I’m not understanding how this is any different. From the sound of things, many need to reassess your drawing strategy.
 
People apply across the West every year with ZERO chance of drawing the tags they applied for. I’m not understanding how this is any different. From the sound of things, many need to reassess your drawing strategy.

Please name another drawing where you never even make it into the drawing pool. Yes there are many with next to zero odds, but none I know of where you don’t have at least one bean in the pot.
 
Please name another drawing where you never even make it into the drawing pool. Yes there are many with next to zero odds, but none I know of where you don’t have at least one bean in the pot.
The nornal Colorado draw with less points then those that draw, you have 0% chance and you don't know who will apply. This is the same, youth have 1 point and everyone else has 0. The question is not youth preference, but should the not paid for tags be in this pool?
 
The nornal Colorado draw with less points then those that draw, you have 0% chance and you don't know who will apply. This is the same, youth have 1 point and everyone else has 0. The question is not youth preference, but should the not paid for tags be in this pool?
Not exactly the same, but I get your point. Most knowbthat they are building points when they do that. This was different.

I agree with you though. We are asking the wrong questions, leave the leftover draw as is, but stop putting not paid for tags in the draw, or add them to a separate draw ran concurrently with the leftover draw but without the youth preference for those tags.

Not paid for and turnback tags are not leftovers. There should be a different system for those. And there is, if they decide they don't want to do a separate draw then hold them over till the remaining tags go on sell over the counter.
 
Please name another drawing where you never even make it into the drawing pool. Yes there are many with next to zero odds, but none I know of where you don’t have at least one bean in the pot.
You can apply for units in Colorado with ZERO chance of drawing … same goes for WY and NM
 
I also see your point, but in those drawings you gain a point. So you come away with something of value.
I hear ya. The diffrence is this costs $9 and the other closer to $100. I am sure there are a couple of people that bought a qualifying license and applied for the 2nd draw, but I doubt many.
 
Lots of people look at some of the draw stats for new mexico. Non residents putting in for bighorn tags they have zero chance at because they don't understand how the quota allocations work, same with oryx.
 
I was specifically talking about Colorado.

Are you saying there are some states you can apply with absolutely zero chance of drawing and you get nothing in return. Who in their right mind would do that?
Exactly .. and if you go back to my original post, which you challenged me on … I stated ”apply across the West”. As for CO, plenty of people are drawing dead every year, not sure why the second draw is suddenly different for folks to comprehend.
 
People apply across the West every year with ZERO chance of drawing the tags they applied for. I’m not understanding how this is any different. From the sound of things, many need to reassess your drawing strategy.
I can't think of any draws that offer zero chance + no bonus point
 
I can't think of any draws that offer zero chance + no bonus point
The issue is you don"t know how many youth will apply, so there could possibly be a chance for some units, you just don't know. Some were really close to going to an adult and some "not paid for" archery tags did go to adults as no youth applied. The rules were crystal clear, they are what they are and people had to decide if it was worth the price of a Big Mac meal or not. This is not that big of a deal, the youth had 1 point, others 0, worked just like the Colorado draw.

If you applied for 66 2nd with 0 points in the original draw, what were your odds of drawing?
 
I'm not sure how they are giving preference to the youth. Maybe just first choice? The two 70 archery buck tags went to a res and a non res first choice while the youth that applied second choice didn't draw.
 
I agree with many on this. The difference for me this year was not knowing how many applied the previous year since this was the first year. Now we have a data set we can gauge for next year and the available tags.
 
0% odds? which species / areas?
Oh my word, let's just state you are 100% wrong and not going to win this one. WY has several draws that if you don't have max or near max points you are drawing DEAD because there are no random tags. And, you don't receive a point either. You must go back to the WG&F website when the point purchase window is open and buy your point.

NM has tons of units that do not have DIY tags available, maybe 1 outfitter tag depending on the total quota to which you are drawing 100% DEAD in the DIY pool. No points because NM has no point system.

There I gave you some important tips, it's time for you to do your own homework and figure it out on your own.
 
Oh my word, let's just state you are 100% wrong and not going to win this one. WY has several draws that if you don't have max or near max points you are drawing DEAD because there are no random tags. And, you don't receive a point either. You must go back to the WG&F website when the point purchase window is open and buy your point.

NM has tons of units that do not have DIY tags available, maybe 1 outfitter tag depending on the total quota to which you are drawing 100% DEAD in the DIY pool. No points because NM has no point system.

There I gave you some important tips, it's time for you to do your own homework and figure it out on your own.
yes but you know that going in, unlike the Colorado 2nd draw. They are selling false hope.
 
yes but you know that going in, unlike the Colorado 2nd draw. They are selling false hope.
Honestly, I don't think you knew about drawing dead in other states because you specifically asked for examples, which have been provided not only by myself, but others too. This 2nd drawing is no different than some of the examples provided. It's up to you as the applicant to do your research to know if you have an opportunity to draw a tag.

I knew going into the draw that youth would have preference and made the educated decision to not apply knowing I wouldn't have an opportunity to draw the tag I was interested in; however, I did put my son in the drawing because of the youth preference. He was lucky enough to draw both a 2nd season bull tag and an antelope buck tag.

CP&W did nothing out of the ordinary when it comes to drawing dead. As mentioned previously, other states are doing the same in their state draw systems.
 
Honestly, I don't think you knew about drawing dead in other states because you specifically asked for examples, which have been provided not only by myself, but others too. This 2nd drawing is no different than some of the examples provided. It's up to you as the applicant to do your research to know if you have an opportunity to draw a tag.

I knew going into the draw that youth would have preference and made the educated decision to not apply knowing I wouldn't have an opportunity to draw the tag I was interested in; however, I did put my son in the drawing because of the youth preference. He was lucky enough to draw both a 2nd season bull tag and an antelope buck tag.

CP&W did nothing out of the ordinary when it comes to drawing dead. As mentioned previously, other states are doing the same in their state draw systems.
Obviously there are states with preference point systems and non resident restrictions that in some case mean you have no chance of drawing. But a little research lets you know that before you apply. There was no sure way to do that with the 2nd draw this year right?
 
Obviously there are states with preference point systems and non resident restrictions that in some case mean you have no chance of drawing. But a little research lets you know that before you apply. There was no sure way to do that with the 2nd draw this year right?
Your right, but I would expect tons of kids in Colorado who didn’t draw to be in the 2nd draw. Now there is a baseline and everyone will respond accordingly in the future . I think the adjustment will be “adults” will adjust their applications in the first draw to maximize their choices, knowing the 2nd draw will not be an option.

Rich
 
Obviously there are states with preference point systems and non resident restrictions that in some case mean you have no chance of drawing. But a little research lets you know that before you apply. There was no sure way to do that with the 2nd draw this year right?
Correct, but anyone who thought about it at all would know their chance at the 66 2nd and most of the other not paid for tags was 0%.
 
agreed but It would have been nice to know about where the cuttoff was going to be.
It is just like when they CPW adds a new hunt code. You have no idea where the cutoff is going to be the first year. It is $9 and the rules were clear. The thing is, even if everyone went in together for a random draw, you would not have drawn one of the better tags. Odds on 66 2nd would have been 1 in 1000+ or something crazy.
 
i don't care what you think. Guess I should have said what tags are available with no chance to draw that is not disclosed up front
Maybe you should care because I'm right and you were wrong. Figure it out, do your own research and make an educated decision. Guess you spent your lunch money while drawing dead. Too bad, you'll learn next time.

Have a great day!
 
Maybe you should care because I'm right and you were wrong. Figure it out, do your own research and make an educated decision. Guess you spent your lunch money while drawing dead. Too bad, you'll learn next time.

Have a great day!
Congratulations. guess again on the lunch money comment, I already drew Colorado tags so I was not in the 2nd draw personally.
 
The word was out this year and last year all you had to do was read the regs and know that any code with one or two tags was going to a youth as they have preference.
 
An interesting exercise would be to go through the secondary draw hunt codes with 20 or less tags and then look at the primary draw to see which ones were really leftovers and which ones were fully subscribed but not paid for or turned in (re-issues really). Then look at the unpaid for / turned in tags and see how many adults drew those tags. I did that with the hunt codes I chose and below are the results.

Buck tag - sold out hunt code - 12 tags on list - 87 youth applications.

Elk tag - sold out hunt code - 5 on list - 23 youth applications tags.

Pronghorn - sold out hunt code - 3 tags on list - 29 youth applications.

I actually thought I might have a chance on the buck tag.
 
An interesting exercise would be to go through the secondary draw hunt codes with 20 or less tags and then look at the primary draw to see which ones were really leftovers and which ones were fully subscribed but not paid for or turned in (re-issues really). Then look at the unpaid for / turned in tags and see how many adults drew those tags. I did that with the hunt codes I chose and below are the results.

Buck tag - sold out hunt code - 12 tags on list - 87 youth applications.

Elk tag - sold out hunt code - 5 on list - 23 youth applications tags.

Pronghorn - sold out hunt code - 3 tags on list - 29 youth applications.

I actually thought I might have a chance on the buck tag.


There were 105 muzzy doe tags I applied for. 88 of 155 res adults drew. I wasn't one of em.
 
As far as being able to read the regulations.. I think we all get it by now. We need to take a closer look at the brochures every year including myself things change.. I didn’t put in last year so I missed a lot. ?
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There were 105 muzzy doe tags I applied for. 88 of 155 res adults drew. I wasn't one of em.
Ouch! I hate it when draw odds are published and see that you're on the wrong side of the coin flip. Years ago I had a seven years in a row of applying for a coin toss draw and didn't get it.
 
I've gotten a few of those tags, and at least I had a shot at them. This was just throwing money away.
This years a total wipe out for me in Colorado, Wyoming, Arizona- including the leftovers for Colorado. Worst in many many years. The leftovers is a bad joke- kids got them all. Never wasting time/$ on that again.
I think in Colorado, all the points saved up from years past came out of the woodwork & blew up the system . Sunk to the bottom- like the Titanic.
Wait till next year. ?? Now nothing to do but shoot coyotes & prairie dogs !!!! Such is life in the slow lane.
Jerry Gold in Windsor, Colorado ??
 
Did anyone get their second draw tags yet? I received my doe tag.
I thought it was fast considering the payment deadline was July 16th.
 
It was probably already covered in this thread but when does Leftover license list come out? Or is it already and I'm just friggin blind? :)
 
DW are you sure?


Since there has been nothing published, other than the list will come out the day before they go on sale, and they go on sale on a Tuesday the first week, best guess would be Monday prior. Hence the word "assume" in my comment.
 
Huh what out? You asked about that guy and I don't know him not sure why he has that username. My earlier question I was being facetious. I knew you were correct but you felt the need to shout me out so I sent a smart ass reply.
 

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