Sheep Draw, day 1?

[sageadvice]

Someone asked me today how long i have been putting in for Desert Bighorn Sheep and i told them, "from day 1". They asked, "when was that?", i couldn't say for sure. I know that i've been putting in every year since...geez, it's been a long time, but again not sure.

Does anyone out there know when, what was the first year, Desert Sheep in Calif were first offered up for us to possibly draw a tag? Not talking about points or that new stuff, i'm thinking the 70's or early 80's. Thanks!!

Joey

 

[D13er]

1987

great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB

 

[sageadvice]

Thanks JB! 1987, That's the last and only year i drew a antelope tag. Other than deer, the only tag i've ever drawn in Kali!

Joey

 

[larrbo]

I think it was 1931.....boy are you old

 

[sageadvice]

"I think it was 1931.....boy are you old"

I'll say! No wonder i couldn't remember

Joey

 

[ElmerFudd]

Odds are most will die before drawing. 500 applicants per tag & maybe 50 years to apply means only one in ten will draw applying all life long.

Really, points are totally unfair to those not in the exclusive top pool for stuff like sheep, that does not roll over in a reasonable period of time. Guess those in the top pool will get a tag if we live long enough and they don't change the system (but they will change it, and should to be fair). Sooner or later, they will get enough complaints.

 

[sageadvice]

So, you're saying, "(but they will change it, and should to be fair)"

Meaning that it's just as fair for a guy to draw a tag that's just started to apply, as it is for a guy that puts in every single year for over 20 years?

If a guy has been putting in every single year, he would be max points unless he has already drawn a tag. Though the odds are still long, i feel my chances to draw are better now than they were 6-8 years ago. Isn't that what the points system was supposed to do, reward those that consistently put in with better odds of drawing?

To change the system now might seem fair to some out there that are just coming on board or who only want to put in once in awhile but how fair is it to all the max points guys out there that have been putting in every year since,...day 1?

Joey

 

[ElmerFudd]

First off, I'm in the top pool. I have been applying from day one too. But seriously, how in the world is 75% of the tags in an exclusive pool just for the first in fair? Say when it gets to 40 years, 40 years is everything, a guy with 39 in is no better off than 0. How is that fair? Most people not in the top pool are locked out of most of the tags for life.

Preference tags are only fair for tags that rotate over on a reasonable period of time compared to a person's hunting life, say 20 years or less. Sheep tag pools rotate over when people get too old or die, most people will never draw.

The preference system is unfair for sheep and it will be changed when enough people #####. My guess is to a bonus point, where you get some reward for applying more, but it does not make an exclusive spot for first in at the top of the pyramid scam.

 

[sageadvice]

ElmerFudd, I admire your motives in this discussion. Here you are with max points yet you are willing to have things changed for others benefit. I'll agree with most of what you said there and will admit that you make good sense. Just because i agree with what you said though, does not really change my mind on how i believe those that have been putting in "forever" ought to be treated. To my knowledge, you are the first to complain of the existing system on this page and to compare it to some "pyramid scam" sounds a bit over the top.

I believe that you or i, Hardway, or Eelgrass,... that might have full points and look forward to the draw every single year, ought to get a tag, or have a better chance at one, before, just an example, some new son in law gets talked in to putting in for the draw for the first time by his wife's Dad.

There are great Sheep draws that PP's don't apply or make little difference. As it is now, let them that don't have any points, or less than max points, draw for them or the % of tags that go to the random point pool. The possibility of drawing one of those tags, i'm told, is almost as good as ours...very slim!

Joey

 

[dogcr8]

Here is a question that has always bothered me. How does one of our younger hunters, (the future of our sport) ever draw a coveted sheep tag, if the system stays the same? With the current system they can start applying at 16. If they started next year they will always be many points behind the Max point applicants. Is it fair that the system started before they were old enough to apply?
I have applied for a sheep tag every year since 1984, I was 22 years old. By the luck of the draw I drew a tag in 2002 when I was 40. If I remember correctly and my math is right, (since I still have max points for everything else) the points did not come into play in the draw. I just got lucky. I killed a very nice Ram and it was a hunt I will always remember.
I know that some of you will say they have to start sometime, but with the limited number of random tags, I wonder if my children will ever have a realistic chance of drawing a sheep tag during their life time.

 

[ElmerFudd]

Joey,
Not totally for all othere. I do have kids...And I'd love to help one of them get a ram, even if I never get a chance. I actually do have max/near max sheep points in every state that offers them.

Honestly, I think CO's sheep system is the fairest to everyone, a minimum number to get in, they divide your random number by how many more points you have above that. First timers are eliminated, and more years for sure helps your draw number. I just don't think first in should be everything for most of the tags. 20 years should be almost as good as 19, but way better than one year.

And...The points pyramid means I am getting a WY sheep tag in very few years No more than four...

Good Luck,
Eric

 

[ElmerFudd]

Oops, a few typos above...

Anyway, it's all about entitlement to distribitution of very limited public resources.

Got to thinking, maybe they should make you put a check of whatever amount you want in your application. Tags go to the highest in order, but it's all nonrefundable...That way, tags for sure would go to the most serious applicant, and everyone would have to be really serious to apply. Just make sure the money goes to sheep projects, not the general fund Totally fair!

 

[sageadvice]

Fudd, Quit thinking!!! Your whole argument that those sending in the most money are the "really serious", just blew any positive thoughts i may have had of your ideas, clean out of the water and down the toilet.

Do you really believe that if you can send in more money for a tag, that you are a "more serious" hunter? Pure BS in so many ways!!!

...and that that way would be "totally Fair"?

What an ASS you are! Go dump your Krap on someone else's thread!! The world has enough guys thinking that the more money you have, the more you should be in on "entitlement" of "very limited public resources". Even though hunters are facing it more often these days, not all hunting in Kali or the USA is "all about the money." Not yet it isn't!!

Since Day 1 the program was set up for every person in Calif that bought a license and hunts, as payback for their long standing support, to be able to afford a decent chance to draw a sheep tag. There are plenty of tags and Rams already out there on " bid or auction" that can be bought by your "serious hunters". Leave the Kali draw as it is and i must say, guys that think like you make me sick to my stomach!

Joey

 

[sageadvice]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-15-09 AT 12:00PM (MST)[p]So, Fudd posted this (below) in the "sheep, antelope, goats..." forum this am, word foe word, as well as here in the Kali forum, two posts above this one.

Fudd, Your "got to thinking" duel posting has just cost you all credibility with me!! Joey



"ElmerFudd
Nov-15-09, 09:10 AM (MST)
"WY Pref. Pts. going into the 2010 Draw"

Anyway, it's all about entitlement to distribitution of very limited public resources.

Since it's all about the sheep, got to thinking, maybe they should make you put a check of whatever amount you want in your application. Tags go to the highest in order, but it's all nonrefundable...That way, tags for sure would go to the most serious applicant, and everyone would have to be really serious to apply. Just make sure the money goes to sheep projects, not the general fund. Totally fair!"

 

[ElmerFudd]

Guess you can't tell when I'm being sarcastic. Of course I think it goes against the American way of hunting privilidges to go highest bidder. But I also think "Grandfathering" first in for most of the tags for stuff that isn't going to roll over till most die or get too old is equally as unfair way to distribute them...

 

[eelgrass]

Elmer, I picked up on your sarcastic humor right off. I too fear the possibility that the rules might change mid stream. I always figured that eventually some state will sell Preference Points for say $100 each. You are allowed to buy as many as you want. Nightmares, for sure.

Eel

Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.

 

[CAelknuts]

Anyone who is in less than the maximum points group is eligible for a portion of the tags. I believe that either 50% or 75% of the tags go to those in the maximum points pool, while the remainder go to those with less than maximum. Also, units that have 1 or 2 tags don't have any set aside for the max points guys, I believe.