Should Idaho Have a Land owner voucher system?

THEBUTE

Member
Do you think Idaho should have a Land owner voucher system in sted of land owner appreciation tag drawing?
 

JPickett

Member
No. A lot of these land owners already think they “own” the animals in it and can do as they please. Just because you can buy property doesn’t make you special. The wildlife belongs to the public regardless of who owns the land. Want to do as you please with game on your property? Put up a high fence and raise your farm animals to shoot, otherwise get in line like everyone else and draw a tag if your property is in a controlled hunt area
 

Homer

Long Time Member
so.....you don't think your deer and elk eating a private property owner's alfalfa should be compensated in some way???....

Does your neighbor feed your dog for free??
 

Howler

New Member
so.....you don't think your deer and elk eating a private property owner's alfalfa should be compensated in some way???....

Does your neighbor feed your dog for free??
What about the private property owners who run livestock on the public 4, 7, or 12 months out of the year? I’d say a few elk in there hayfield in the fall is a fair trade?
 

Howler

New Member
Your right, I bet 99 percent of them pay their usage fees and abide by the rules. I’m not saying they don’t. Lots of permittees pump water all spring, summer, and fall for their cattle and sheep. The same water the “publics” animals drink. That’s great, I appreciate that as a Sportsmen. All I’m saying is that the “public” allows those permittees on the range, is it going to kill them if they have a few elk And deer in the hayfield September and October?
 

Homer

Long Time Member
have you ever witnessed what a "few" look like on some ranches??

Have you ever witnessed deer in Winnemuca hay fields in april, may, june, july, august.............
 

Deepcolor

Active Member
Idaho is a fence out state, if they don't want game on their property they should build a fence .
This statement leads me to believe that you have never built or maintained any type of fence. Bordering on ignorant from my point of view.

The landowner tags are for landowners that own land that supports wildlife. This includes mountain ground for deer, elk, moose and any other wild creature that chooses to live on your land. The list could go on for a mile of all the different scenarios where a landowner provides a living space for a wild animal but you focus on a fence and a hay field. I strongly oppose the option to sell those tags for profit but fully support a tag system for landowners that provide habitat for “your” animals.
 
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JPickett

Member
Yeah these guys really want the tags for “ property damage “ give me a break. “ yup it that damn 190 buck and 380 bull eatin up all my crops” what a bunch of BS. Fish and game gave a million dollars to one land owner in Fairfield last year and shot 200 plus elk of I think the same guys property. Yes, build a F’n fence
 

JPickett

Member
try it some time....
What get a million dollars in welfare from fish and game then have the same department come cull 200 elk for me at there cost? Guess I’d give it a try. Could I ***** about not getting land owner tags after?
 

Homer

Long Time Member
most of the depradation on private happens long after seasons are closed and you are home in your warm house while a rancher is trying to scrape up round bales flattened and two thirds eaten by elk and fed to a penned herd of cows..........hunting there during season would piss you off too for lack of game......
 

JPickett

Member
And you can’t hunt winter range without drawing essentially a once in a lifetime tag so I’m sure your perfectly fine with the tribes going out there and slaughtering bucks and bulls right? Slippery slope....
 

Mallards_Only

Active Member
As a farmer and landowner, I suspect I have a different view on this than most greedy farmers. If you choose to own land and farm it in an area with native species, then you should accept that as part of the risk of farming in that area. It's no different than battling weeds, insects, and other pests that are part of normal cultivation practices. If you don't want elk/deer eating your crop, build a fence. It's done all the time. Too hard to maintain??? Cry me a river. If done properly and if your crop damages are that extensive, the fence pays for itself in a short time. The state has made it too easy for farmers to augment their income by making wildlife loss claims. It's just more corrupt politicians in bed with the farm lobby stroking each other's backs.
 

N_Corey

Active Member
most of the depradation on private happens long after seasons are closed and you are home in your warm house while a rancher is trying to scrape up round bales flattened and two thirds eaten by elk and fed to a penned herd of cows..........hunting there during season would piss you off too for lack of game......
A farmer allowing elk to get into stored round bails is far different than crop damage. There’s absolutely no reason why a farmer can’t properly secure his winter feed so that elk aren’t able to get into it.
 

hornguy

Member
I think with alot of conditions this would be alright. I would also say that what the ranchers receive from F & G should be the same price as the rancher pays for aum's on public land. Think this year it is $1.38 per cow/calf pair per month. The ranchers in my area, Challis are pretty good about letting people hunt, but the growing majority are either corporate land owners or people who come to their ranch once a year.
 

JPickett

Member
Mallards understands. I know one of the biggest land owners in a controlled hunt unit. Friend of mine in his 60’s now and his family’s owned it since the area was homesteaded by his family. He told me the story of his dad way back in the day (60’s/70’s) and how he would grow and put out feed for the elk on the wintering grounds each year. Fish and game even came in and tried to supply feed and he wouldn’t let them through the gates. Said” I’ve worked too hard to keep this land weed free and won’t take your feed”

guy never took a dime or a hand from the state. Understood it was part of the life. Too bad those guys are all but gone. Good on you mallard
 

JPickett

Member
He also wouldn’t post all his property he owned damn near half unit. Would say “ you have to leave something for the hunters” he’d post what he wanted guys to stay out of but there was a lot he left open
 

THEBUTE

Member
JPickett I believe you're right farmers & ranchers do not own the wildlife. Just wondering if there isn't a better way to compensate them for cost of wildlife friendly fencing, pumping water, and feeding. IF&G issues tags to outfitters to sale.
Mallards_Only
I knew going in that I would have interaction with wildlife. Most agricultural people would never fence out wildlife from food, and water.
Idaho is a fence out state most landowners share the cost but not the Government (BLM). The cost to graze with a BLM permit is what keeps the price of beef down. This also hurts the rancher the doze not run on BLM range thy sells their beef on the same market. I believe there is a better way that IF&G can work with the landowners rather than landowner appreciation tag drawing. Maybe give them some control of there property.
 

JPickett

Member
So it sounds like you are looking for supplemental income. Tags to sell. Exactly what should not happen. And you Do have full control of your land. You want to let people on your land to hunt it your fully free to do so. Can even charge a trespass fee. You want to put up a fence, free to do so. What your not due is anything the rest of the population is in regards to the game in this state. I’m pretty sure we can all agree game for sale is a bad precedent
 

BrianID

Very Active Member
I'm strongly opposed to landowners being given tags that they can sell for $$$. It may seem like a reasonable idea at first but we have many examples of how it has been bad in other states.
 

IDbulls

Member
My biggest gripe with land owners...my daughter drew a coveted bull elk tag that opened Oct 1 near Leadore. There were hundreds of elk on the alfalfa fields. Not one land owner would let us on. Some signs said, “don’t even ask”
These same ranchers were the first in line crying for depredation relief later that same year when it was time to bring the cattle in from the derange and they no longer wanted the elk on their property. Screw them. They should get no relief when they lock out honest sportsmen and refuse “help” in September and October.
 

THEBUTE

Member
I am not looking to supplemental my income. I never in-played I wonted to sale tags. Landowner tags can not be sold. I only would like to have a better way to receive landowner tag than the existing process. Some landowners receive 2 and more tags others receive 0. Landowners put in to the drawing in July and receive conformation August 15. Landowners can not apply online, mail only. Landowners can not use a credit card, check only. Tag can not be purchased online after the drawing, license vendor only. Is this the way the rest of the population draws for tags?
I do not agree for sale is a bad precedent and the Idaho state Legislator must not agree with you or they would not pass a bill to let landowners guide on their own land.
 

JPickett

Member
My biggest gripe with land owners...my daughter drew a coveted bull elk tag that opened Oct 1 near Leadore. There were hundreds of elk on the alfalfa fields. Not one land owner would let us on. Some signs said, “don’t even ask”
These same ranchers were the first in line crying for depredation relief later that same year when it was time to bring the cattle in from the derange and they no longer wanted the elk on their property. Screw them. They should get no relief when they lock out honest sportsmen and refuse “help” in September and October.

yup "don't even ask" keep out" then cry a freakin river to F&G about how they need to kill all the elk on there fields.

F&G's first response to these complaints should be "access yes" then go from there if more is needed.
 

JPickett

Member
. Landowners can not apply online, mail only. Landowners can not use a credit card, check only. Tag can not be purchased online after the drawing, license vendor only. Is this the way the rest of the population draws for tags?
the rest of the population is not eligible for these tags. you however are eligible for both these and general draw tags. so there you go. you already have your preferential treatment you believe you deserve for buying land.

i own a home in Idaho, its on dirt. wheres my special treatment?
 

Cooper

Active Member
My biggest gripe with land owners...my daughter drew a coveted bull elk tag that opened Oct 1 near Leadore. There were hundreds of elk on the alfalfa fields. Not one land owner would let us on. Some signs said, “don’t even ask”
These same ranchers were the first in line crying for depredation relief later that same year when it was time to bring the cattle in from the derange and they no longer wanted the elk on their property. Screw them. They should get no relief when they lock out honest sportsmen and refuse “help” in September and October.
That’s bs, if you don’t want anyone hunting elk or deer on your place you shouldn’t be eligible for any compensation
 

Mbogo

Active Member
If someone believes Idaho landowner tags are not being sold they are incorrect. The current system just keeps the prices suppressed because they can't openly market them.
What percentage of the tags actually get sold? Who knows. But the trophy unit landowners have no problem finding buyers.
 

N_Corey

Active Member
You mean farmers are pimping wildlife and crying about crop depredation for money. My mind is blown.......
 

CAelknuts

Moderator
I'm strongly opposed to landowners being given tags that they can sell for $$$. It may seem like a reasonable idea at first but we have many examples of how it has been bad in other states.
you mean like $18,000 landowner elk tags in prime Nevada units?
 
As usual a bunch of all hat and no cows folks talking farming.

Of course the big land owners should get the tags and be able to do whatever they want with them.
 

THEBUTE

Member
What is bad about $18,000.00 landowner elk tags in prime Nevada units? They could not sell Tags if no one purchased them. I am wondering if this website would exist if not for the money they make from Guides/Outfitters and hunt&tags. If this is not game for sale what is it.
 
What is bad about $18,000.00 landowner elk tags in prime Nevada units? They could not sell Tags if no one purchased them. I am wondering if this website would exist if not for the money they make from Guides/Outfitters and hunt&tags. If this is not game for sale what is it.
Pot, Kettle........Black.
The commercialization of our hunting resources will be the end of our HUNTING.
At LEAST the farmers give back to the animals.
 

JPickett

Member
Yeah I’d love to see all the examples of giving back. One good o e would be the 200 elk f&g shot for a land owner last winter. What a guy, really “ giving back”
 
You guys don't have a clue and just want what someone else has.
Run around with your hair on fire screaming wolf OR do the research.

I refuse to be your online instructor in 2020.
 

andrew12gauge

Active Member
You guys don't have a clue and just want what someone else has.
Run around with your hair on fire screaming wolf OR do the research.

I refuse to be your online instructor in 2020.
Or maybe most of us just believe in the North American model of wildlife conservation whereby the animals are owned by all people and held in trust by the state wildlife agencies, not owned by whoever happens to have the most acreage
 

JPickett

Member
You guys don't have a clue and just want what someone else has.
Run around with your hair on fire screaming wolf OR do the research.

I refuse to be your online instructor in 2020.
im good with what i got, its plenty. and i have no interest in hunting ranches. all my stuff is done in wilderness or primarily road less areas. shooing a bull from the hood of a truck on an alfalfa field wouldn't do it for me.

what i am against is preferential treatment based on something as frivolous as being able to buy dirt. especially when it is in regards to public commodities such as wildlife. you want the kings forest move to the UK
 

JPickett

Member
also i love the argument about depredation. please explain to me how getting 2 bull tags and a buck tag saves your years profit from herds on your property. give me a break. call it what it is "im a land owner and im owed!!"
 

BrianID

Very Active Member
Ranchers do not own the animals and Texas is a high fence state.

You guys are funny.
Most of Texas is actually low fence but it still has the "kings deer" mentality. There are several high fence "hunting" opportunities in SE Idaho. If you like the "kings deer" idea so much, you should put up a high fence.
I don't recall you ever contributing anything worthwhile to this site in the past. It seems you only come on here to stir the pot. At least guys like Tristate post hunting pictures and stories once and a while. I don't ever recall you posting anything besides arguing and complaints.
 
Hell know let all the money the states making on out of state tags and Licenses buy the bullets to allow sharp shooters take care of it. All you hunters that are against point system probably think a Voucher tag is a bad idea to.. LOL....
 
It just gets better with your guys opinions.

Farmers feed a ton of wildlife year round.
LAP tags are a perk for them to continue to do so.
Why??
Because they DO make a difference.

You guys don't know squat about ranching or the costs.
You just want someone's perks.

Shooting a bull on an alfalfa field?
Ever stop to consider the effect this has the fences?
Of course not.

Ever wonder who and what built those trails that you carry your backpack up?
Next you'll want to outlaw horses and mules.

Contributing nothing worthwhile?
Perhaps you should contribute to the animals somehow instead of surfing the internet looking for dead animal porn.
Or
At the very least support those folks that do.
 

N_Corey

Active Member
I
It just gets better with your guys opinions.

Farmers feed a ton of wildlife year round.
LAP tags are a perk for them to continue to do so.
Why??
Because they DO make a difference.

You guys don't know squat about ranching or the costs.
You just want someone's perks.

Shooting a bull on an alfalfa field?
Ever stop to consider the effect this has the fences?
Of course not.

Ever wonder who and what built those trails that you carry your backpack up?
Next you'll want to outlaw horses and mules.

Contributing nothing worthwhile?
Perhaps you should contribute to the animals somehow instead of surfing the internet looking for dead animal porn.
Or
At the very least support those folks that do.
If landowners got vouchers they could sell do you still think they should get depredation money?
 

Cooper

Active Member
Who said anything about access yes? All I have stated is that if elk or deer are damaging your land, you won’t let anyone hunt you shouldn’t get tags to sale along with compensation from the state
 

Big_R

Member
I know if I spent the money to buy a ranch big enough to qualify for landowners tag it would be nice to have the option to sell it on a year that I wouldn’t hunt it. Just saying there isn’t a lot of margin in cattle or hay ranch now a days
 

JPickett

Member
It just gets better with your guys opinions.

Farmers feed a ton of wildlife year round.
LAP tags are a perk for them to continue to do so.
Why??
Because they DO make a difference.

You guys don't know squat about ranching or the costs.
You just want someone's perks.

Shooting a bull on an alfalfa field?
Ever stop to consider the effect this has the fences?
Of course not.

Ever wonder who and what built those trails that you carry your backpack up?
Next you'll want to outlaw horses and mules.

Contributing nothing worthwhile?
Perhaps you should contribute to the animals somehow instead of surfing the internet looking for dead animal porn.
Or
At the very least support those folks that do.

well you convinced me. think next week ill buy 1000 acres somewhere so the week after i can be appreciated for all ive done for the wildlife with my landowner tags. perfect sense
 
"If landowners got vouchers they could sell do you still think they should get depredation money?"
I don't think they should get Depredation money. Period.

"may even spend a whole 2 weeks a year on my new "ranch" to prove what a great guy i am"
Na I bet you just stay in your subdivision.
 

JPickett

Member
"may even spend a whole 2 weeks a year on my new "ranch" to prove what a great guy i am"
Na I bet you just stay in your subdivision.
and proving my point. i can stay in my subdivision and still get my land owner tags for "all i'm doing for the wildlife" in fact i know 2 "landowners" that do just that

kinda like buying up thousands of acres from Texas and then demanding my special treatment i deserve as a landowner. you know, the guys your advocating for?
 

boise

Active Member
Who said anything about access yes? All I have stated is that if elk or deer are damaging your land, you won’t let anyone hunt you shouldn’t get tags to sale along with compensation from the state
Hard sell to tell someone the solution to there economic damage is strangers with guns! Fact that there are so many replys on this thread hightlight the truth that it's a little more complex of an issue than some of the ultimatums voiced.
1) landowners are critical to wildlife
2) every aspect of this argument/discussion has costs associated with it.
3) most involved care about wildlife
4) Not a one size fits all situation
5) if you don't want X than maybe you need to compromise on Y!
 

JPickett

Member
Hard sell to tell someone the solution to there economic damage is strangers with guns!
hard to sell the general public on government agencies expanding on a program they've yet to prove they can manage properly for the benefit of a special interest group as well....
 
I think the point of owning your own land as a hunter is to have your own place to hunt big animals no one else can, my family owns a big ranch in southern idaho that used to have giant bucks on its but thanks to the public land that is in the higher elevation above our ranch all the big bucks are few in far between and I don’t think a CWMU style system Would be good
 

Mallards_Only

Active Member
Pot, Kettle........Black.
The commercialization of our hunting resources will be the end of our HUNTING.
At LEAST the farmers give back to the animals.
Laughable. You truly live up to your Username. Farmers giving back--my ass. Even as a farmer, I can honestly say VERY FEW farmers do anything to give back to the wildlife unless they are seeing benefit in the way of hunting leases or selling tags. Otherwise, any other "giving back" cuts into one's bottom line. Are you really that clueless or just genuinely dishonest??
 
Mallards it's obvious you are not a rancher.
How many pivots you running on your hobby farm?

California?
Hardy Har Har.


Good luck this year guys.
Some of us just got tags in the mail.
MAGA!!!!
 

JPickett

Member
Another intelligent response.

again, by your standards how many tags do the wilks brothers deserve for all they do for Idaho wildlife?
 

JPickett

Member
the Wilkes brothers is a very unfair example of Idaho land owners....
and yet there exactly who would benefit from what’s being discussed here. The opposition make a bit more sense? There not unique either. If you don’t know what’s going on in Idaho right now with growth you should look into it. We’re not talking about a bunch a 5th generation dirt farmers that need cow tags to feed there kids. Big money “ranchers” buying up land in premier units would be leading this push...
 

Mallards_Only

Active Member
Mallards it's obvious you are not a rancher.
How many pivots you running on your hobby farm?

California?
Hardy Har Har.


Good luck this year guys.
Some of us just got tags in the mail.
MAGA!!!!
Rancher no, farmer yes. So once again you have proven your "blindness." How many acres do you farm/ranch?? Clearly, the answer is none as you have no clue about farming operation and bottom line. True farmers who work hard for a living don't do anything to benefit wildlife that might cut into their profit margins. The margins these days are slim and if you're farming for a living, you can't afford to do things to give back to wildlife unless you are getting a benefit in some other way from it. You really think farmers are planting fields with the intention of feeding it to the elk/deer??
 
Mallards I don't think................ I know.
That being said, I'm sure your personal experience far out weighs mine................Especially at talking.

My place only has 1500 acres of pivot irrigated alfalfa.
I won't mention the non irrigated acreage because I don't figure it's relevant here.
Pretty small farm by Idaho farm standards.

We work smart, keep our bottom line profitable, and hundreds of deer, elk, antelope graze on all the fields year around.

By my standards that IS giving back.
AND
While the animals do have a small impact on the bottom line we accept the impact without pursuing depredation money from the government because we enjoy supporting the wildlife.
 

N_Corey

Active Member
If you’re giving back then why would you ask to have the ability to sell LOP tags. That would defeat the purpose of giving back because you’d be asking for compensation at that point.
 
Ah yes.........the conspiracy theory.
Sorry you feel the need.

Don't worry yourself.
I would never sell the tags.
PERIOD.
They are a perk.

Unfortunately most here share the same thoughts as the people who trespass and/or hunt the fence line year after year.

Wouldn't your time be better spent out scouting for this year's hunt?
 
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JPickett

Member
If the Wilkes don’t do it for you how about next time your headed over mid vale hill take a look to the east. Mellon family owns about 10,000 acres there ( probably more) there old east coast money ( billions, not millions) fly over here Maybe once year if at all. Send clients over to shoot elk as a perk of business. And good for them, don’t besmirch any one for what they got or bought.

but how much preferential treatment do they deserve for “all they do” I bet they should get lots of tags huh?
 

JPickett

Member
I’ll keep going. How bout a little closer to home since I’m just a guy “ who knows a guy who knows a guy”

owners of the company I work for. Large Idaho based company, done very well for them selves and are actually two really good guy. Created a lot of jobs. They’ve both purchased large tracks of land in two premier Idaho unit's Neither of them live there, they put cattle out there I think primarily for tax purposes and again maybe out there two weeks a year.

think they “deserve tags for all they do”
 

D6native

Active Member
I share a fence line with Mellon. I think it's hilarious when he and his ranch hands get ticketed for harassing the elk and herding them into the heart of his property. Mellon and those like him would benefit the most.
 

JPickett

Member
Buddy of mine is a pilot and likes to buzz there ranch when he flys over just because he knows it pisses them off that they can’t fence out airplanes. Yes it would be the like that benefit
 

JPickett

Member
Guess since “management “ has been brought up in this thread too what do you think blindness? These tags land owners deserve so much should come out of the units quota? Only 100 tags in a unit, sorry general public no more draw here. The land owners deserve them. That should go over well...
 

N_Corey

Active Member
Ah yes.........the conspiracy theory.
Sorry you feel the need.

Don't worry yourself.
I would never sell the tags.
PERIOD.
They are a perk.

Unfortunately most here share the same thoughts as the people who trespass and/or hunt the fence line year after year.

Wouldn't your time be better spent out scouting for this year's hunt?
If you would never sell the tags I’m having trouble understanding why you’d like the system changes at all from the current way landowners receive tags.
 

Cooper

Active Member
Maybe he wanted someone to pat his back since his 1500 acre irrigated and whatever non irrigated feeds deer and elk and he makes good money doing it. 👊
 

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