Something is wrong with the gun

Cowkiller

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I just got my newest Western Hunter Magazine. The cover story is a Wyoming Sheep Hunt. The author missed a big ram three times at over 600 yards. His excuse was "Something obviously happened to my gun".

Reading that after seeing Tri's recent post I just had to comment. I vehemently disagree with most of what Tri says and believes but on this I'm with him 100%!

I was up there in the vicinity when this author missed those shots. We heard those shots. We assumed at the time that it was someone shooting long range at a ram and missing or wounding. I grumbled at the time about the insanity of shooting long range at an animal as valuable as a trophy ram!
 
You’re making a lot of assumptions. How does one draw the line on ethics when it comes to distance? Most guys shouldn’t be taking 300 yard shots but you don’t see people arguing over that...
 
If something “obviously happened “ you’d think he’d be able to explain what it was since ending the hunt and writing an article. If something “happened “ to my gun my first trip would be the range. I doubt a 1/4 of guys that shoot “ long range” practice or reload. IMO there both equally important for that type of shooting
 
Yes, I think was just discussed.

I'm new here but the conversation around long range is the same here, it seems, as most any other forum, except LR specific sites.

I find it interesting that people get their panties in a bunch about long range hunting but yet say nothing about guys who take shots at running game or guys who shoot 5-10 shots before season to make sure their gun is "on" at 100 yards and proceed to take 300-350 yard shots. How many guys practice shots at running animals? What are the chances of a wounding shot? My favorite is, "I jumped him out of his bed and took a quick shot as he was running through the woods"....I have yet to see anyone criticize this person for a poor/unethical shot.

Most of the guys I know who shoot long ranges practice more, have the gear, know exactly what their bullet is doing at all ranges, and are better shots at 700 than 90% of guys at 300. If you don't believe that go to a free sight in day at a range before hunting season....what a joke.

I'll take a guy who practices, knows his load and drops, over someone who heads out into the woods shooting at running game or shoots 5-10 shots a year and calls that good enough.
 
Like I said before...Just bring one round with you. There's really no need for more than one round. Would like to know your excuses for more than one round.
 
Of course not! But with all the so called I "practice" all the time and the so called "ethical" hunters then why would you need more than one round? So tell me again. Why would you need more than one round? This is for both the long range hunters and those who claimed to sneak up on deer to within 5yds. So again, why?
 
Of course not! But with all the so called I "practice" all the time and the so called "ethical" hunters then why would you need more than one round? So tell me again. Why would you need more than one round? This is for both the long range hunters and those who claimed to sneak up on deer to within 5yds. So again, why?
I can't tell if you're being serious or not but it's a pretty ridiculous question.

Have you ever shot an animal right in the vitals but it's still on its feet? Ever packed out an animal in grizzly country? Just a few reasons to carry more than one round.

Btw, the more you shoot and get to know your equipment the better you will get. Nobody will make a perfect shot every time and I don't care if it's 100 or 800 yards. Being ethical also means putting an animal down if a bad shot is made and that requires more than one shell.
 
Yes, I think was just discussed.

I'm new here but the conversation around long range is the same here, it seems, as most any other forum, except LR specific sites.

I find it interesting that people get their panties in a bunch about long range hunting but yet say nothing about guys who take shots at running game or guys who shoot 5-10 shots before season to make sure their gun is "on" at 100 yards and proceed to take 300-350 yard shots. How many guys practice shots at running animals? What are the chances of a wounding shot? My favorite is, "I jumped him out of his bed and took a quick shot as he was running through the woods"....I have yet to see anyone criticize this person for a poor/unethical shot.

Most of the guys I know who shoot long ranges practice more, have the gear, know exactly what their bullet is doing at all ranges, and are better shots at 700 than 90% of guys at 300. If you don't believe that go to a free sight in day at a range before hunting season....what a joke.

I'll take a guy who practices, knows his load and drops, over someone who heads out into the woods shooting at running game or shoots 5-10 shots a year and calls that good enough.
Glad you agree that many people who are lobbing rounds out there half a mile shouldn't be doing so.

So how do you propose that everyone with a creedmoor gets this vital long range shooting experience, and how should we conduct the skills verification?

And for all practical purposes my muzzleloader is a singular opportunity.
 
I really wish there was a way to police long range shooting at big game. I don't think it's good for hunting.
I know there are a few people that are great shots and there are thousands of people that think they are great shots. I would wager my next paycheck that if you took 10 long range shooters off of monster muleys and placed them in a hunting situation ( no bench, no lead sled, no vice ) and asked them to fire 5 shots at 1000yds that not 1 of them would be able to shoot MOA.
 
If we're going to do any kind of "verification" let's just make it across the board....bowhunters, rifle, muzzleloaders, etc. That's only fair right?

I think you missed my point entirely. It's not just long range guys, a lot of people are taking shots that shouldn't be, no matter the range.

I'm comfortable with how I hunt and my shooting abilities, I don't stray outside my self imposed limits. I won't tell someone else what they should do, that's on them. I can only hope that each hunter has internal dialogue and can be honest with themselves.

To a bigger point though, the only thing that comes from in-fighting within the hunting community is division and the eventual restrictions that will happen to all hunters. Don't think the anti's love to see all the bickering.
 
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Yes, I think was just discussed.

I'm new here but the conversation around long range is the same here, it seems, as most any other forum, except LR specific sites.

I find it interesting that people get their panties in a bunch about long range hunting but yet say nothing about guys who take shots at running game or guys who shoot 5-10 shots before season to make sure their gun is "on" at 100 yards and proceed to take 300-350 yard shots. How many guys practice shots at running animals? What are the chances of a wounding shot? My favorite is, "I jumped him out of his bed and took a quick shot as he was running through the woods"....I have yet to see anyone criticize this person for a poor/unethical shot.

Most of the guys I know who shoot long ranges practice more, have the gear, know exactly what their bullet is doing at all ranges, and are better shots at 700 than 90% of guys at 300. If you don't believe that go to a free sight in day at a range before hunting season....what a joke.

I'll take a guy who practices, knows his load and drops, over someone who heads out into the woods shooting at running game or shoots 5-10 shots a year and calls that good enough.
Percentage wise there are very very few who put in what it really takes to shoot long range. All you need these days is a sig kilo range finder that blue tooth’s to your scope and a flat brim hat. Not too many guys actually understand what it really takes. Hence this thread of guys saying “ guns off! Weird???”
 
I get that and I'm totally in agreement. That's why I was talking about each hunter needs to have an honest internal dialogue with themselves about their true abilities. We can't control others, and I wouldn't want to do that anyway.

We can help guide, teach, and give personal opinions but in the end it comes down to each individual.

What do you consider long range? Is that range your personal "long range" or is that the range you consider long for everyone?
 
I just got my newest Western Hunter Magazine. The cover story is a Wyoming Sheep Hunt. The author missed a big ram three times at over 600 yards. His excuse was "Something obviously happened to my gun".

Reading that after seeing Tri's recent post I just had to comment. I vehemently disagree with most of what Tri says and believes but on this I'm with him 100%!
LOL, I have noticed that Tri has a much bigger following then just about anyone on here, it never fails someone will bring him up in most long threads pretty much just inviting him in to troll them. I find that to be pretty comical, most hate him so much they will completely overlook what he is saying just to trash him. I don't agree with him all the time, but he does make some good points on occasion, not always the most poetically but I can agree with the jist of what he is saying on some subjects, and he loses me on others.

His original post on this subject was a thing of beauty, you had guys on both sides of the aisle agreeing with each other and then disagreeing later on in the post attacking and agreeing with one another all at the same time. LOL

But if you really pay attention, in most posts that Tri is in he is called upon first by his haters. Usually with a "I'm surprised the pig hasn't chimed in yet" or something to that effect, it never fails.

So here's to you Tristate, the best Heel MM has ever seen. Cheers.
 
You mentioned 700 in your post. I don’t think most guys really know what it takes to shoot 1000. Unfortunately with you tube, forums and dumb ass hunting shows no one cares either. There dial goes that far so that must be all it takes.

I’ve been reloading and shooting a long time. I shoot targets at 1000 or further, I shoot animals from 800 in
 
I really wish there was a way to police long range shooting at big game. I don't think it's good for hunting.
I know there are a few people that are great shots and there are thousands of people that think they are great shots. I would wager my next paycheck that if you took 10 long range shooters off of monster muleys and placed them in a hunting situation ( no bench, no lead sled, no vice ) and asked them to fire 5 shots at 1000yds that not 1 of them would be able to shoot MOA.
Yep. That's tough for sure. Soon as my shooting area opens up, I''m gonna give it a whirl. I've shot less than MOA off the bench at 1000, but not off a pack or sticks. mtmuley
 
You mentioned 700 in your post. I don’t think most guys really know what it takes to shoot 1000. Unfortunately with you tube, forums and dumb ass hunting shows no one cares either. There dial goes that far so that must be all it takes.

I’ve been reloading and shooting a long time. I shoot targets at 1000 or further, I shoot animals from 800 in
I agree 100%.

I will say though, once you start doing serious practice at longer ranges those 400-600 yard shots seem like chip shots if conditions are good.
 
I hope no one sees my comments as a personal attack, especially the author of the Western Hunter Story. I would congratulate him on a great ram, great hunt and great story. He certainly put in a tremendous effort and was rewarded for it. I appreciate his honesty in telling the story the way it happened. I would also commend him for getting a little closer on the next opportunity and making an accurate shot.

I do think that shooting at game animals over 500 yards is bad for hunting for many reasons. It would still be bad for hunting even if all long shots were perfect one shot kills. I think that limiting weapons technology for hunting either voluntarily or by regulation has a very long history in the hunting tradition and is needed again.
 
500? 400 used to be the magic number on the forums for ethics! The goal posts have moved!!!
 
You are a badass. mtmuley
Because I know wind effects a 500 yard shot? Should be common knowledge for anyone taking that shot. Thought you were some kind of physics major?

oh look, and you got a thumbs up from my stalker.
 
Because I know wind effects a 500 yard shot? Should be common knowledge for anyone taking that shot. Thought you were some kind of physics major?

oh look, and you got a thumbs up from my stalker.
Of course you do!!! Your very insightful !! And not scared to tell everyone how smart you are
 
I can appreciate how threads evolve, but I think many here missed the point of my post. This was more an analysis of people's reflection than it was ana analysis of capability.

Get ready because now I'm going to offend another hunting demographic, BOWHUNTERS.

For years I observed bowhunters. I even tried bowhunting myself. So we can be absolutely open I want you to understand I CAN'T SHOOT A BOW TO SAVE MY LIFE. You give me the best bow withe the best accessories money can buy, let me quit my job to practice everyday, and in a year I'll be lucky to hit a buck in the butt at 10 yards. Just how it is.

The thing I noticed about almost every bowhunter I have ever seen is they are an excuse factory. Absolutely nothing is their fault. This gizmo was out of tune. That doohickey hit my string. The deer dodged the arrow. Etc. Etc. Etc.. The sad part was about 1 in 3 shots ended up being a wounded rodeo, and 1 in 4 shots ended up being lost wounded game. There were times I would come in after tracking a wounded animal for 8 hours and still have to here some doohickey excuse.

What I am trying to say is LR shooters have just become Bowhunters. Nothing is their fault and they can't admit that they, THE HUMAN FACTOR, are shooting beyond their capability when they miss.

When you miss your elk at 885 yards by 5 feet, DON'T SHOOT AGAIN AFTER SAYING SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE GUN! Put the gun away and go put the gun on paper. Slinging more rounds at 880 yards is rarely going to fix your gun, and is much more likely create a bad situation with a wounded animal.

I actually believe there are people who can ethically shoot game much farther than I can, but don't become a bullet launching excuse factory when you discover you can't.
 
I can appreciate how threads evolve, but I think many here missed the point of my post. This was more an analysis of people's reflection than it was ana analysis of capability.

Get ready because now I'm going to offend another hunting demographic, BOWHUNTERS.

For years I observed bowhunters. I even tried bowhunting myself. So we can be absolutely open I want you to understand I CAN'T SHOOT A BOW TO SAVE MY LIFE. You give me the best bow withe the best accessories money can buy, let me quit my job to practice everyday, and in a year I'll be lucky to hit a buck in the butt at 10 yards. Just how it is.

The thing I noticed about almost every bowhunter I have ever seen is they are an excuse factory. Absolutely nothing is their fault. This gizmo was out of tune. That doohickey hit my string. The deer dodged the arrow. Etc. Etc. Etc.. The sad part was about 1 in 3 shots ended up being a wounded rodeo, and 1 in 4 shots ended up being lost wounded game. There were times I would come in after tracking a wounded animal for 8 hours and still have to here some doohickey excuse.

What I am trying to say is LR shooters have just become Bowhunters. Nothing is their fault and they can't admit that they, THE HUMAN FACTOR, are shooting beyond their capability when they miss.

When you miss your elk at 885 yards by 5 feet, DON'T SHOOT AGAIN AFTER SAYING SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE GUN! Put the gun away and go put the gun on paper. Slinging more rounds at 880 yards is rarely going to fix your gun, and is much more likely create a bad situation with a wounded animal.

I actually believe there are people who can ethically shoot game much farther than I can, but don't become a bullet launching excuse factory when you discover you can't.

Well...there it is!

Seems about once a year i agree with something Tri posts. Shame it came so early this year, kinda takes the fun out of trying to find that post...

Just kidding Tristate. Good post though.
 
I missed about a 175 buck in New Mexico from about 250 yards. I had a good rest. My first thought was something must be wrong with the gun. The buck took off running.....right towards me! He pulled up at about 50 yards because he either smelled me or something. I put the crosshairs on his neck (the only shot I had) and missed again. He got away.

Sure enough, I was hitting about 6" left from 25 yards.

Hey, it does happen, you know. :cry:
 
Maybe we could be classified hunters you know, you know like class I would be open sights, ———-class V extreme long range with excuses
 
I shared a camp with a guy 2 years ago that is a long range junky. He talked for 3 days about long range shooting and all the competitions he goes to. I was pretty excited to watch him finally get a chance at a buck we had been hunting for those three days. 1000 yard shot, a wounded deer and a lesson learned by me. Things are just different when you get off the bench and into the field.
 
True that DC!

What Caliber was He Shooting 1,000 Yards?

A Bee Sting No Doubt!

But an Animal Limped Off & Died,again!
 
The guys who practice long range in field conditions on a regular basis are the only ones that have any business taking long shots. What is too far to shoot is going to depend on the individuals abilities. Some hunters have no business shooting 100 yards, others shouldn't shoot beyond 300 yards and others can reliably shoot 600 yards or more. I agree that most guys with turrets on their guns have no business shooting long range and some of them have no business even attempting a 300 yard shot.

Me taking a 1000 yard shot today would be more ethical than me taking a 100 yard shot when I was 15 years old. Even though I could hit a deer on the 1st shot at 1000 yards in field conditions, that is currently well beyond what I would attempt to shoot at a big game animal. Wind is too hard for me to judge consistently under field conditions at 1000 yards. It is easy to be off a wind call by 10" at 1000 yards with a 10 mph breeze. Practicing at long range has taught me to read the wind much better and make more precise shots at 200 or 300 yards. In the past I would never hold for wind on a coyote at 300 yards. Now I'll hold for wind on a 300 yard coyote every time there is even a 5 mph breeze. I miss less coyotes than I use to.

3 of the last 4 mule deer I've killed were at 500+ yards. I believe the last time I didn't kill a deer I shot at was in 2007. I don't go out attempting to take long shots but if is the only reasonable opportunity that I have and I'm comfortable with the shot, then I'll take it. The deer in my avatar is my widest deer to date at 32" and I could have easily stalked 200 yards closer and killed him at 500-600 yards that morning. However he was in a spot that I could put a good stalk and I was able to kill him that afternoon at 125 yards out of his bed. What is more unethical, a 600 yard shot or shooting a bedded animal? For me, neither is unethical as long as the end result is the same.

With that said, I know there are guys capable of ethically killing a deer at 1000 yards but most guys that think they are capable have no business even attempting a 500 yard shot.
 
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True that DC!

What Caliber was He Shooting 1,000 Yards?

A Bee Sting No Doubt!

But an Animal Limped Off & Died,again!
6.5 SAUM
He is a pretty good friend and I mean no disrespect. Just a good lesson for me on long range shooting and how easy things can get off the rails.
 
I Won't Argue about Him being a Good Shot!

But If He's gonna keep trying To Kill Big Game at that kinda Yardage He Best Get Him a Bigger Gun!



6.5 SAUM
He is a pretty good friend and I mean no disrespect. Just a good lesson for me on long range shooting and how easy things can get off the rails.
 
6.5 SAUM at 1000 yards is marginal at best for deer. I wouldn't feel good about it even though the manufacture says the bullet will open up at 1800 fps and my ballistic program says my bullet is traveling 1850 fps at 1000 yards.

Shooting a cold bore shot at 1000 yards under field conditions at a deer is much more difficult than shooting multiple shots at steel from a bench. Shooting across mountain canyons with variable wind from different angles makes those 1000 yard 1 shot kills unrealistic for all but those who put the time in. You have to practice under those conditions and learn your limits.

Making a long range shot is much more difficult than measuring the wind with your Kestrel and using your ballistics program tell you what you need to dial. Many of the "bench shooters" have a difficult time trying to set up a solid rest under field conditions because they rarely do it.
 
Many of the "bench shooters" have a difficult time trying to set up a solid rest under field conditions because they rarely do it.
This is very true and often overlooked by guys “ practicing “ only time I shoot offf a bench is at 100 yards for load development. After that everything is in the field and prone. Have to get used to that position. It changes a lot
 
This is very true and often overlooked by guys “ practicing “ only time I shoot offf a bench is at 100 yards for load development. After that everything is in the field and prone. Have to get used to that position. It changes a lot
I find that I shoot better from prone than I do from a bench. I use a bipod in both situations but for whatever reason I'm more comfortable in prone, bench not so much.

I just finished some work on the computer and decided to take a break before starting another project....I put the bipod on my practice gun and did some dry firing to relax for a while.
 

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