Supplements

T

Tank

Active Member
Messages
321
I don't use any supplements on a daily basis, buy I have used the Wilderness Athlete products for my workouts and hunting. I found that the hydrate and recovery allows me to workout longer and harder. Is anybody else supplementing their workouts to get ready for hunting season? What do you use?
 
I use supplements everyday. Our food system in America doesn't allow you to get the amount of vitamins, nutrients, and minerals that are needed daily. Plus I'm in health and wellness industry. This will keep me hunting and enjoying the outdoors for a long time.


Traditional >>>------->
 
>I use supplements everyday. Our food
>system in America doesn't allow
>you to get the amount
>of vitamins, nutrients, and minerals
>that are needed daily. Plus
>I'm in health and wellness
>industry. This will keep
>me hunting and enjoying the
>outdoors for a long time.
>
>
>
>Traditional >>>------->

+1
 
WOW, I am not in the health industry, but remember doing a week long assessment in collage on my food intake. It took into account the amounts and gave me the values for Kcals, fats, protein, vitamins, and minerals. It seemed to me that we Americans have more than enough to keep us healthy with our food availability. I didn't seem to be lacking in any area. Most of the values were much higher than needed.
My usage of supplements are to enhance my workouts or to recover from hunts. I don't use much. Am I missing something?
 
If you'd like to try a new supplement for your workouts or on a hike for that matter you gotta try ESO. It stands for "electronically stabalized oxygen". Put about 50 drops of that in your mouth and your energy is through the roof!! Its a stimulant free supplement that simply oxygenates your blood stream. Your stamina in the gym is increased and waiting time between sets is dramatically reduced due to more oxygen getting to the lungs and muscles. It tastes like water from a hot tub but well worth it!!
 
PT Barnum was right....



JB
497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
So PUNK?

You chase it with Muscle Milk?




Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
>WOW, I am not in the
>health industry, but remember doing
>a week long assessment in
>collage on my food intake.
> It took into account
>the amounts and gave me
>the values for Kcals, fats,
>protein, vitamins, and minerals.
>It seemed to me that
>we Americans have more than
>enough to keep us healthy
>with our food availability. I
>didn't seem to be lacking
>in any area. Most
>of the values were much
>higher than needed.
>My usage of supplements are to
>enhance my workouts or to
>recover from hunts. I
>don't use much. Am
>I missing something?

Our soil in the U.S. is depleted. Therefore our crops lack their full potential in the vitamins they are supposed to provide. Almost all Americans are mineral and vitamin deficient. There is plenty of food to go around, the problem is its all grown with super pesticides and bio seeds. (GMO) It's difficult to get proper nutrion anymore without supplementing our diets with fish oils, vitamins, and minerals.
If you believe we are getting our needs met nutritionally, according to our great government, then I have some ocean front property in AZ to sell you.
Our food system is failing along with our healthcare. If our nutrional needs were being met, we wouldn't have almost every disease on the rise and more disease being discovered everyday.
I wanna enjoy my life till the very end, that's why I make choices in food and nutrition the way I do.




Traditional >>>------->
 
Nah, I was just having a little fun. But it might surprise us to know how much of our food is actually produced in this country. And Im sure it depends on where we buy it.

I know there are places in this country that have depleted their natural levels of soil nutrients and therefore must rely on supplementing with fertilizers, both organic and man made (pun intended).

Maybe Beanman will chime in. He knows plenty about crops.
 
Nutritionists will tell you if you eat right you dont need supplements. But the nutritionists that develop health pfoducts will tell you that you need their supplemens to be healthy. The truth is that if you eat heathy and exercise you will be very healthy. Utah people push mkre supplement crap than any other state I have ever lived in. It is multi-level(MLM) madness..
 
>SLAM,
>What's your opinion on Jacked 3D?
>

I get asked that question a lot because that product is marketed so heavily. I'll give you MY opinion on it and you can take it for what it's worth.
It's three main ingredients are Caffeine, "NO" (Nitric Oxide) (NO is just the amino acid L-Argenine) and Creatine Monohydrate.
Here's the part that makes me want to dump it in the toilet. Caffeine is a "vaso constrictor" (shrinks blood vessels causing heart to beat faster and harder) and the NO is a "vaso dialator" (expands the vessels to allow more flow which causes a better pump when training).
Now lets look at the Creatine.....It's causes water retention at the cellular level in the muscle (muscle hydration). Caffeine is a dirutic and causes dehydration.

How can this product be effective as it's claims when the three main ingredients actually fight each other?

People using it say they know it works because they actually feel it. Well, of course your going to feel over 4000mg of a propietary blend of which caffeine is the #1 ingredient!!

There.....there's my opinion.....i'd never waste a dime on this product. All three ingredients are good ones, don't get me wrong, just not all at once.
They all have their place in weight training, but timing of when to take them is the key.
 
Horsecreek, I do work in healthcare, and I can tell you the reason why we have new disease processes is people are living longer. No longer is it the survival of the fittest. We treat symptoms and diseases that would have killed people 50 years ago. Thus allowing lesser disease processes to become apparent. I would say that the trace minerals in our soil have very little to do with it. I am not discounting the importance of good soil, but you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
 
Supplements are just exactly that...."supplements".
Meaning they "supplement" a good diet, they don't replace good healthy eating.
 
It's not about supplement. There are no magic bullets. This industry is as wacky as they come. They all make miracle claims. They make billions of dollars selling snake oil and thanks to Senator Hatch they don't have to back up their claims. They ALL say they are backed up by research....but whose research? There is an ever rotating fad of the month, diet of the week, and supplement of the day. Noni & mushrooms & ion charged bracelets, & HGC & those wacko conspiracy people on the radio.

No doubt that Horsecreek is correct that our nutrition is junk. The big problem is how do we navigate the supplement market. The way it is now makes it impossible to really know what is marketing junk & inferior products.

Corporate American has been feeding us boxed garbage since the the 70's. Fast food, instant noodles, garbage cheese, bad fat, sugar, all lead down the road to disease and nutritional poverty.

This is just my answer so just my opinion> Farmer's markets, gardens, wild game, lots of greens, fibers, fruits, nuts, fresh stuff, local stuff, olive oil, whole grains, spices, garlic, fish, anything with antioxidants & cooking from scratch. No supplements needed. It's all included. Cut the fat, salt, sugar.

Northern Europeans are much healthier than we are. They shop everyday for fresh stuff, eat less meat, get lots of exercise and have significantly less healthcare costs. They are able to endulge in chocolate, breads and cheeses and still maintain a high nutritiant diet.
 
I agree that supplements are to supplement your diet. My argument is that how many people eat a balanced diet? Not many at all. It shows in how many of us are on multiple meds. Disease is showing up in children that shouldn't have disease. People are living longer but you can't argue that there is more disease than ever. I wasn't trying to make mountains out of mole hills. I was only giving my opinion on what you asked.
I would like to know what everyone's ideas are of a healthy diet, compared to what they really eat everyday.


Traditional >>>------->
 
If people would discipline themselves to eat a 60/30/10 ratio we'd be the healthiest country on the planet.
Unfortunately fast food and cheap foods are killing us.
Ever go to a health food place and buy something organic and wholesome? Healthy foods are simply too expensive for the bulk of our population.......nuff said.
 
"Healthy foods are simply too expensive for the bulk of our population.......nuff said."

I couldn't disagree more with this comment. My family went through some really tough times a couple years ago. We didn't know where our next meal was going to come from for almost 2 years. Those were stressful times but we ate more healthy food when we were struggling financially. Fruits, grains, and veggies are pretty dang cheap!
You can pay more $ for quality food upfront, or you can pay it on the back end with medical bills and meds.

Traditional >>>------->
 
"Healthy foods are simply too expensive for the bulk of our population.......nuff said."

""I couldn't disagree more with this comment.""

I believe we are both right in some areas, but my point was talking about going to a health food store and buying "organic foods" versus the processed foods we all buy. I challenge you to go to a health food store and purchase a loaf of bread made out of all organic ingredients versus a standard whole wheat from any standard grocery store.
Try a dozen eggs as well. Fresh farm eggs are 1 1/2 times as expensive as the mass produced chicken farm eggs.

It's not so much that things are "cheaper" to eat bad foods more than it is the convienence....or should i say INCONVIENENCE.
 
Case in point.....
My wife is about to cook us dinner, it is Kraft "cheesy skillets" with hamburger.

Go to a health food store and purchase all the ingredients to make this same meal......you'll be sick at what it costs to eat "healthy".
 
slammy, quit giving diet advice. your the most well versed in that area i know. however u dont practice your preaching. ur friggin facebook is flooded with taco bell posts and tons of comments about carls jr's double western burgers with bacon. u eat all that crap and then go home and wash your laundry on your stomache. my wife n i hate you for ur bodys inabiluty to get fat. u suck! lol

just wonderin how u keep up on all those supplements. i guess im old school. all i do is eat lots of peanutbutter!
 
>Case in point.....
>My wife is about to cook
>us dinner, it is Kraft
>"cheesy skillets" with hamburger.
>
>Go to a health food store
>and purchase all the ingredients
>to make this same meal......you'll
>be sick at what it
>costs to eat "healthy".

lol, I don't think cheesy skillets with hamburger is exactly a healthy meal. :)
All joking aside, You are right, "health foods" generally are more expensive. My point is, if you want to eat really healthy, clean food, it can be super cheap.





Traditional >>>------->
 
Yes, cheap per meal. The problem with all fresh foods is shelf life, it simply doesn't last long enough to stay fresh.

I know what your saying though, Horse. I have competed in quite a few bodybuilding shows and i know first hand how to eat "clean". Try eating a "clean" 6800 calories a day for a 15 week run of dieting hard. Lol
I went from 15.5% bodyfat to a mere 2.2% in my last comp eating like a horse (no pun intended).
My "clean diet" was mostly fish (salmon and Tilapia), chicken breasts, turkey, almonds, asparagus, broccoli, just to name a few off the top of my head. The dieting is tougher than the actual training!!
The biggest problem i faced with eating all fresh foods like that was definitely not the cost, it was the shelf life. I had to make runs to the store twice a week.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-12 AT 09:00AM (MST)[p]All right I'll give my take on stuff that i know and leave the guesswork to others. I've worked in agricultural research for the last 30 years. Having participated in 'market basket' survey's' a few hundred times I can tell you that foods grown with the pesticides currently in use (and for the last 20 years) are incredibly safe and that you won't be finding them in your foods, even at the parts per trillion level. Some of the tertiary metabolites are present at parts per trillion but that is a really small number. ("Silent Spring" which many organic people like to refere to is from the 60's, those chemicals are long gone) If eating organic makes you feel good, go for it. From the pesticide standpoint it is...pointless.

Are our soils depleted and causing our produce to be less nutritious? Again, I've run through thousands of soil tests. Sometimes trace minerals like boron or manganese show up low but the plants rarely show symptoms. I haven't been involved in analysis of the mineral contents of plants so I'll hold back my anecdotes. In in the field plants rarely show symptoms. If you took a low potency multi vitamin you would more than make up for any percieved deficiency.

GMO. First you might want to ask what you mean by genetically altered. To me it means that one strand of DNA, out of a few million, has been altered. This is done by 'shooting' a small gene sequence into the correct area of the plant to produce a desired result. For example, in corn, Soybeans, and some other major crops a bacterium gene that can detoxify glyphosate (roundup herbicide) has been inserted into the genome to make the plant "Roundup Ready", it can be sprayed with roundup to kill all the weeds without harming the crop. Pretty useful stuff if you are farming a hundred acres or more and don't want to use a hoe to kill your weeds. Is it bad? So far no one has been able to demonstrate that it has adverse affects on the body. Some organic people believe that 'GMO' means any plant that has been crossbred or hybridized. My response is that all of our food plants have been 'hybridized' whether by Gary Larsen wearing a white lab coat or naturally. Only the F1 (first) generation is a hybrid. After that generation some segregation occurs and a stable population results. Even your "heirloom" variety's have been hybridized at some point in their genetic history. For further insight on plant breeding google Gregor Mendal.

In short I recognize most of the health food industry's vitreole as the nightsoil of a large and well fed male oxen.

The real problem is the food choices that most Americans make. If you want to eat healthy you can without resorting to organic food. Most people don't.

I do use supplements to help with recovery after working out, mostly from Hammer Nutrition. I may be getting fleeced. Go figure.
 
Horsecreek sounds like a typical supplement salesman. The old worn out scare tactic of our soils are depleted is a scare tactic that surfaces every so many years to sell various supplements and simply isn't true. Any farmer will tell you depleted soil means poor yield and that translates to less money. That is why you see crop rotation and fertilizers added. With modern soil testing our fruits and vegetables are more nutritious than ever. BeanMan is right about it being more about poor choices. We do tend to over fertilize and the nutrient rich run off causes problems in some water ways by leading to excessive aquatic growth. I grow a huge garden every year and amend my soil as needed to produce maximum yield. I let everything fully vine ripen to get the max nutrition value and flavor.
 
BTW.....although i talked about organic foods, i personally do not eat them. I refuse to pay those prices and i'm not afraid of the regular store bought foods, i was simply making a statement about "healthy eating". If i had the space and the time, i'd grow a huge garden. Right now my garden is walmart and albertsons.
 
Bigmass, who crawled up your ass? I'm not a salesman of anything! Why do we use so many herbicides/pesticides and fertilizers if the soil we grow our crops in isn't depleted? It's not a scare tactic I use. I simply choose to eat food the way god intended it...Natural and unmodified. If you choose otherwise good for you, that's your choice. My belief is that if there aren't toxins from pesticides/herbicides and fertilizers then why are people so toxic? I spend a lot of time helping and guiding people through organic wholefood detox's. Just by switching their fruits and veggies to organic most people will begin to detox. Is that coincidence???

Traditional >>>------->
 
Horsecreek,

Herbicides are pesticides, they have nothing to do with the need for fertilizers to add to soil fertility. When you remove plant material (vegetables, grain etc.) from a field you are removing elements of soil fertility hence the need for replacements. Whether this system is organic or commercial makes no difference.

Do I need to point out the difference between an anecdote and science?
 
>My belief is that if
>there aren't toxins from pesticides/herbicides
>and fertilizers then why are
>people so toxic? I spend
>a lot of time helping
>and guiding people through organic
>wholefood detox's. Just by switching
>their fruits and veggies to
>organic most people will begin
>to detox.


Ding ding ding! We have a winner! :)
 
Horsecreek,

One more thing if you would care to enlighten me. What is a "super pesticide"? Give me a trade name or chemical family, not a phrase please.
 
Beanman, isn't an anecdote what they give you when you're snakebit? ;-). "Ah wooda died if they dint gimme that snake venom anecdote"

By the way, thanks for the information, even if it is "anecdotal", on soil fertility etc. I knew you'd be a good source.
 
>Horsecreek,
>
>Herbicides are pesticides, they have nothing
>to do with the need
>for fertilizers to add to
>soil fertility. When you remove
>plant material (vegetables, grain etc.)
>from a field you are
>removing elements of soil fertility
>hence the need for replacements.
> Whether this system is
>organic or commercial makes no
>difference.
>
>Do I need to point out
>the difference between an anecdote
>and science?

Are there, or are there not more pesticides and herbicides developed every year or so to combat weeds and insects? If the weeds are the same every year in crops, then why won't the same sprays work?
Why do we need to use synthetic fertilizers? Do you really believe they are better than natural fertilizers?
I may be wrong, but I thought herbicides kill weeds...pesticides kill bugs? How is that the same thing?

Why are you taking this so damn personal bean?

Google didn't give me a clear answer to anecdote vs. science...could you elaborate for my simple mind?


Traditional >>>------->
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-12 AT 03:11PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-12 AT 02:29?PM (MST)

Horsecreek,

You are right, I have taken this too personally. I'll try to explain. When I tell people what I do for a living I often get responses from well meaning but ignorant people like: So you're creating genetically modified food that is less nutritious and dangerous. Or, you're just a pawn of Monsanto which controls all the food in the world (they don't, not even close). Or really simple genetic stuff like I only plant "open Pollinated crops" not even knowing what open pollinated means or that many crops like dry beans or soybeans are self pollinated (not open pollinated).

Pesticide is a generic term for fungicides, rodenticides, insecticides, herbicides etc. A herbicide is a weed killer. Insecticides kill insects and sometime mites and spiders and so forth. They are all pesticides

Darwin came up with the idea of evolution and he was right for the most part. Nothing in nature is static, weeds, insects, bacteria etc, all develop resistance to treatments whether they be a weed killer or antibiotic. Humans develop resistance to virus' that they have been exposed to. They evolve. It's not due to Frankenscience. It is a normal and natural biological process. That's why new pesticides are developed to combat this. It's not something that takes a year to accomplish, more like 15 years to develop and market a new pesticide (or drug).

I'm all for natural fertilizers, the trouble is one of availability, cost, and ease of use. Synthetic fertilizers are easier to use, cost less, and are more readily available. Raising a garden is much easier to do than raising thousands of acres of mono-culture crops.

Here's a little 'food for thought' for you. The human population is expected to double in 30-50 years, how are we going to feed them without new genetics bred to resist disease or herbicides and improve yields? It won't happen with organic gardening. (I think we won't feed them no matter what we do though, cold I know).

Basically an anecdote is a opinion, statement or belief by a person or group of people, it is not substantiated by scientific method. I try not to operate on anecdotal information for the really important things. Science, in my case agricultural science, uses replicated trials to statistically prove theory's, or disprove them. And then it is validated by review and repeatability. For example, if you were test the urine coming out of your patients you might be able to scientifically document that 'toxins' were leaving their bodies. Instead you rely on anecdotal information that they 'feel' better even when most of these people are changing their diets for the better.

I react negatively to these things because so many people are just plain misinformed or have an agenda.

Phaseolus out.
 
Thanks for the explanation bean. I should have shown my sarcasm more for the anecdote comment. I was being a smart ass. :)
I too like science to a point. For example, I don't need scientific evedence for certain things in health. I know myself and my clients feel better when they eat a certain diet. I don't use the same cookie cutter diet for everyone. In fact no two are alike. That's why I love what I do. When someone detoxes they almost always feel like sh!t. So it's not like they feel better.
I don't judge you because of your profession. I'm sure you're great at it. I get the same judgements that you get. I'm a Healthnut full of conspiracy theories. :)
I just believe I can help people that can't help themselves.
So I would argue that you do have an agenda... So do I. Without an agenda you or I wouldn't be passionate about what we do. I'm sure we could get into some pretty heated conversations, but I'd rather not. I'd like to keep it as a couple guys that like to hunt. I'm gonna stay out of this thread. I'll answer pm's if needed.
Have a great day.



Traditional >>>------->
 
>Hey Slamdunk,
>Where can you buy ESO? Is
>it expensive? Would it help
>hunters hunting at high altitude?
>
I am the distributor for it in Idaho, but i can send you some, they are $25 per bottle and it will last you a long time.
I haven't tried it in a hiking situation yet but it sure does work in the gym when i'm sucking in air between squat sets!!
We are finding out that "more is better" when using this and it has NO side ill effects if you take higher doses, it's simply oxygen. So far the only two side effects i have seen is my whiskers grow like crazy and if i take it too late in the evening i just can't fall asleep because i'm just not tired when i feel so energized. They say it only takes 6 minutes for it to get into your blood stream, but i feel it "working" about an hour afterwards and it stays with me for a couple.
I certainly don't see why it wouldn't help a guy while hiking, you can be assured it'll be in MY back pack next fall!!
It's not just for workouts, it helps EVERYTHING in your body as oxygen is the key to everything at the cellular level. I have a heavy smoker taking it now and he's definately feeling the difference during his workouts in the gym. Granted, i'd rather see him quit smoking........
 
Got to quote the Beanman " (I think we won't feed them no matter what we do though, cold I know)".

I agree with you. I dont think we can sustain the 7 billion
we have now.
 
Oxygenated water nonsense

Junk science in the marketplace

AquaScams home | About water | What is Pseudoscience?|
On this page:
Zeta bunk
"Super-oxygenated" water
"Vitamin O" fraud
Oxygenated cleanser approved by God
Oxygen + hydrogen = $$
Deuterium deception
"Aerobic" and "Stabilized" oxygen
Nascent nonsense
Ozone therapy
Colon cleanser (!)
Unless you have gills, it's just an expensive burp!

Oxygenated water (also known as "superoxygenated" water, ESO) is offered at hundreds of Web sites. I highly recommend it if you happen to be a fish, but if you have lungs that breathe air, then forget about it! All water that has been exposed to the air is "oxygenated" to a small extent? about 8 milligrams of O2 per liter of water at room temperature? and this can be increased by pressurizing the water with oxygen gas; each additional atmosphere of oxygen pressure pumps an additional 40 mg into each liter. But what happens when you open the bottle? That's right, the extra oxygen goes right back out? but not immediately, so by drinking oxygenated water, you can still take a bit more oxygen into your stomach. But can any oxygen molecules that don't get burped back out actually find their way into your bloodstream through absorption in the stomach or intestine? I very much doubt it; the lungs are exquisitely adapted to this function, while your digestive system is specialized for absorbing other nutrients. Suppose, instead, that you simply breathe in an extra liter of air (much easier to do than drinking a liter of water!) It's an easy chemistry students' calculation to show that you will be inhaling about 146 mg of oxygen in this way. Not all of it will enter your bloodstream, but you can always take an extra breath; it's free!

Superoxygenated water is latest sports scam
These products seem to be pitched especially at the sports community, always on the lookout for that thin advantage that can make all the difference. There is no credible evidence that it does, as the following articles mention:
 
LMAO grizz!!!
We have already discussed drinking water with bubbles in it, read the posts above!! Don't try dogging something you have no clue about ;-)
 
>Slamdunk...educate us

i already posted the link to the website where will clearly see its most definitely NOT the "oxygenated drinking water" scam we all read about.
 
ESO just barely came out to the public, there is nothing else like in out there. It was actually developed by NASA scientists for the space industry. You can Google all the BS you'd like, but I asure you there's nothing on this product yet.
 
I've nothing against supplements and I expect particularly for those who eat very healthy and are active they may make more of a difference. For the vast majority of our population (myself included), healthier eating, better sleep, and more physical activity would probably make the biggest difference.

There is something to be said for amending your own soil and growing some of your own vegetables. You might not save much money, but the flavor, freshness, and nutrition is worth it and there is something to be said for the reward of doing so. We have more land now, but in the past raised as much as we could eat fresh and enough to put up for a winter for a small family in a 20'x20' space. Research vertical gardening if your interested in. Companion cropping can give better yield as well.
 
>It was actually developed by
>NASA scientists for the space
>industry.

LOL! Thats what they said about those "space food" bars they had when I was a kid. I'm pretty sure they were just tootsie rolls. ;-)
 
3Blade,

First link: Interesting indeed. I'll spend some time tonight researching through AGRICOLA looking for journal articles. So far my eforts to find the original article have failed. It would be interesting to see if it has been repeated elsewhere.

2nd link: Pretty broadbrush treatment from very green sources. As I said in my first post I'll stick to topics that I know first hand, which are pesticides etc. Only one of those "7 foods to avoid" are about pesticides. I know from firsthand work in potatoes in the San Luis Valley of Colorado that their worries of potatoes containing potentially large amounts of pesticides are not true at least in Colorado. They grow seed potatoes which all sprout, and pesticide screening does not turn up metabolites in the potatoes used for human consumption. If their sources come from the 1960's it wouldn't surprise me that there were residues from chlorinated hydrocarbon chemicals.
 
First a review of the scientific paper as reported by the Huffington Post Green. (3Blade)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17900781

And: A bewildering pile to plow through: At least I'll have something to occupy my evenings.

Authors Biographies
ANNEXES1. Konig A, Cockburn A, Crevel RWR. et al. Assessment of the safety of foods derived from genetically modified (GM) crops. Food Chem Toxicol. 2004;42:1047-88

2. S?ralini GE, Spiroux de Vend?mois J, Cellier D. et al. How subchronic and chronic health effects can be neglected for GMOs, pesticides or chemicals. Int J Biol Sci. 2009;5:438-43

3. Cohen J. Statistical power analysis for the behavioral sciences. Hillsdale, USA: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates Publisher. 1988

4. Doull J, Gaylor D, Greim HA. et al. Report of an Expert Panel on the reanalysis by S?ralini et al. (2007) of a 90-day study conducted by Monsanto in support of the safety of a genetically modified corn variety (MON 863). Food Chem Toxicol. 2007;45:2073-85

5. S?ralini GE, Cellier D, Spiroux de Vend?mois J. New analysis of a rat feeding study with a genetically modified maize reveals signs of hepatorenal toxicity. Arch Environ Contam Toxicol. 2007;52:596-602

6. Chambers JM, Freeny A, Heidelberger RM. Analysis of variance; design experiments in statistical models. London, UK: Wadsworth & Brooks/Cole. 1992

7. Crawley MJ. Statistics an introduction using R. London, UK: Wiley. 2005

8. Hollander M, Wolfe DA. Nonparametric statistical inference. In: John Wiley & sons, ed, New York. 1973:115-20

9. Shaffer JP. Multiple hypothesis testing. Annu Rev Psychol. 1995;46:561-84

10. Benjamini Y, Yekutieli D. The control of the false discovery
 
I found some smart pills under my rabbit's cage, I'd be happy to send y'all some if you like?

horsepoop.gif


Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-12 AT 01:36AM (MST)[p]'Supplements'??? Ha! Hocus Pocus...

I've never taken any supplements besides emergenC...and only because I like the way its nice and bubbly effervescence tastes :)

Raced bicycles for 10 years at the Elite level, but haven't been to a doctor for a 'checkup' in the decade since I retired (team mandated physicals)

Never been vaccinated...wouldn't let ol Sawbone's give me a Tet shot when I had to have him stitch up my hand a few years back

I eat primarily whole foods including PLENTY of wild game and the bounty of our garden, and get plenty of excercise of both the strength and cardio-respiratory varieties...also a good amount of sleep (strength and fitness are gained during RECOVERY from the intended applied stresses), and drink volumes of quality water (no plastic bottled swill)

All in all, there's a lot of funny pontificating goin on here... I'm just surprised that no one has mentioned BEER! and not the crappy canned commercial varieties, but say a nice doppelbock or otherwise unpasteurized brew

The euro monks of old partook of the Doppels and Tripels during times of fasting for their nutritional and digestive maintenence qualities

They just might have been on to something eh! I'm now enjoying a nice Paulaner Salvator Doppel myself :)
 
Beanman, thats a lot of reading, good luck. However, I got another one for ya. The book, Wheat Belly by William Davis Md. Read that one and I doubt you will ever eat wheat again. Plenty of references to studies in the appendix to back everything up.

As far as these supplements go, a few yrs back both the wife and I had tests done to see what are levels were inside the cells. Turns out that in spite of eating well we both had a few deficiencies. Both of us were low in assorted b's which is hard to wrap your head around when you consider that all we eat for red meat is grass fed beef, buffalo, deer and elk. I was low in B1 and B3 and she was low in B12. I can see being low in b1 cause I don't eat very many grains but b3 is everywhere. B12 is baffling as well cause its in red meat, eggs and dairy but we don't consume milk but still, we eat plenty of good red meat around my house. I was low on a couple others but there was a reason for it and it has been corrected. But it just goes to show that no matter how well you think you eat you can still be low on vitamins.
 
>Beanman, thats a lot of reading,
>good luck. However, I got
>another one for ya. The
>book, Wheat Belly by William
>Davis Md. Read that one
>and I doubt you will
>ever eat wheat again. Plenty
>of references to studies in
>the appendix to back everything
>up.
>
>As far as these supplements go,
>a few yrs back both
>the wife and I had
>tests done to see what
>are levels were inside the
>cells. Turns out that in
>spite of eating well we
>both had a few deficiencies.
>Both of us were low
>in assorted b's which is
>hard to wrap your head
>around when you consider that
>all we eat for red
>meat is grass fed beef,
>buffalo, deer and elk. I
>was low in B1 and
>B3 and she was low
>in B12. I can see
>being low in b1 cause
>I don't eat very many
>grains but b3 is everywhere.
>B12 is baffling as well
>cause its in red meat,
>eggs and dairy but we
>don't consume milk but still,
>we eat plenty of good
>red meat around my house.
>I was low on a
>couple others but there was
>a reason for it and
>it has been corrected. But
>it just goes to show
>that no matter how well
>you think you eat you
>can still be low on
>vitamins.


....interesting...and I bet that whoever did that testing just happened to have the perfect supplement to correct those deficiencies.....huh???....




JB
497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
Sounds like the old Hair Mineral Analysis scam. It shows up every few years claiming to show your deficiencies and what supplements you need to correct them. This has been exposed by national network shows such as sixty minutes and twenty twenty but after a few years people forget and it shows up again.
 
Nope.
>
>....interesting...and I bet that whoever did
>that testing just happened to
>have the perfect supplement to
>correct those deficiencies.....huh???....
>
>
>
>
>JB
>
497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
>Sounds like the old Hair Mineral
>Analysis scam. It shows up
>every few years claiming to
>show your deficiencies and what
>supplements you need to correct
>them. This has been exposed
>by national network shows such
>as sixty minutes and twenty
>twenty but after a few
>years people forget and it
>shows up again.


Spectra Cell Analysis done through my doctors office, its a blood test. They measure the nutrients found inside the lymphocytes.
 
The funniest part is that many of these synthesized 'supplements' are not in forms that can be efficiently and maximally utilized by the body...what people end up with is just some very expensive urine ;)

Oh ya, someone gave me some of wilderness athlete CRAP once, and I thought it was just abyssmal, from taste to 'performance' (lack thereof)...one of them was called 'energy and focus' or some such drivel, I remember mixing it up and choking down part of it, which was nauseating, and saying "ugh, I think I'd rather remain lethargic and dicombobulated!" :)

Terrible stuff, you could probably embalm a corpse with it
 
I am not a big fan of the Energy and Focus. When I use it, I take half of the recommended amount. I understand stimulants and their effect. I am a fan of the Hydrate and Recovery. I monitored my heart rate during my workouts, and consistently noticed that my heart rate was lower and I could go longer during the same workout.
I am cautious about what I put into my body, and a lot of those pre-workout supplements make me leery.
Maybe I will go back to Mtn. Dew, the old standby. It's hard to beat a cold Dew...
 
I couldn't resist, that is too funny...:)

"I am cautious about what I put into my body, and a lot of those pre-workout supplements make me leery.
Maybe I will go back to Mtn. Dew, the old standby. It's hard to beat a cold Dew..."



Traditional >>>------->
 
SpectraCell to assess levels of vitamins and minerals, how reliable is this process? Is it worth doing the test?

According to their website, this is what the people who promote SpectraCell say, "Welcome to SpectraCell Laboratories. Our company is the industry's leading provider of Functional Intracellular Analysis, patented tests for assessing the function of specific vitamins, minerals, antioxidants and other essential micronutrients within an individual's white blood cells (lymphocytes). Functional Intracellular Analysis is the industry's gold standard for evaluating nutritional status. Unlike traditional serum, hair, and urine tests, it provides a complete picture of an individual's functional intracellular nutritional status. This detailed nutritional information opens a "window on intracellular function" and enables clinicians to develop appropriate interventions for patients who are pursuing lasting health.

Comments: There is no evidence that the analysis of the nutritional content of white blood cells (even if done accurately) is any reflection of the rest of the body. Each tissue in the body has a different biochemical composition within its cells and it is medically naive to think that one can determine the body's nutritional status based on one tissue in the body, in this instance white blood cells, and thus determine what nutritional supplements are needed and in what dosages. The whole thing smells of a big scam.
Other points to keep in mind. If the same sample is sent to different laboratories, different lab results are likely. Furthermore, the nutrient content and biochemical status of white blood cells could change from day to day depending on diet, sleep patterns, season, and a host of other factors. Therefore a one time analysis means little or nothing.
 
Then it looks like I was ripped off, what else is new? I guess the entire medical field is one big scam designed to take your cash for as long as they can keep you alive.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-12 AT 09:47PM (MST)[p]>I couldn't resist, that is too
>funny...:)
>
>"I am cautious about what I
>put into my body, and
>a lot of those pre-workout
>supplements make me leery.
>Maybe I will go back to
>Mtn. Dew, the old standby.
>It's hard to beat a
>cold Dew..."
>
>
>
>Traditional >>>------->

Son, Around heRe you Can Always find canS of Mnt. dew...

S A R C A S M


I will just spell it out for you. I can see you ain't too fast are ya boy...
 
Good gawd tank, you are truly an angry ass aren't you? Did you not see the :)??
I got the sarcasm but thanks for spelling it out.


Traditional >>>------->
 
>Good gawd tank, you are truly
>an angry ass aren't you?
>Did you not see the
>:)??
>I got the sarcasm but thanks
>for spelling it out.
>
>
>Traditional >>>------->


Just trying to lighten the mood. Everyone has got an opinion, and it's all good...
 
Let me make sure I'm getting this right theox...Food eaten the way God created it is a scam? Just checking.

Traditional >>>------->
 
+1 HorseCreek
How can all natural, no additives, steroids, or pesticides be a "scam"?
That's it......i'm never grinding my own peanut butter again, it's a scam! ;-)
 
Naturally grown foods are not a scam, the term organic is misleading and is something of a scam. I have a close friend with vineyards Napa county, the natural pesticides they are allowed to use and still be considered organic are far more toxic than ones that are engineered for a specific problem or pest, because of this he opts to not be organic. Here is a link to what I consider to be a very enlightening article on the subject of organic or natural labeled foods.
http://open.salon.com/blog/amytuteurmd/2009/03/13/the_organic_food_scam
 
yes its a scam. its a way to charge double the price. first off there is no way that all these farmers are regulated many likely use pesticides etc still. the best way to get true organic food is to grow it yourself. or farmers markets. honestly i dont trust the store bought stuff. they can manipulate alot of things to call it organic.
 
Here's a groundbreaking book for you all to read about the dangers of barley in your diet: Barley Belly by Dr. Samual Adams :)
 
Theox, The term organic is a scam...it's one of the hottest marketing labels. But what happened to you saying its placebo/phshcological? If that's the case why would you grow it yourself in your own garden?


Traditional >>>------->
 

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