Tag Cuts Upon Tag Cuts

[JB1975]

The DEW must have been flowing strong for Bess to be posting so early/late.

 

[hossblur]

HINT hossy:

Surely Not The STATUS QUO For How Many F'N Decades Now?

You are Gonna Demand Hunters To Cut Their Tags Up!

How Many Takers You Got Lined Up To All of a Sudden Fix The Deer Herd With Your Plan?

Not a single one.

Not you, not Muley 73, not any of the constant "cut tags" whiners.

Iits funny how self righteous guys are, until it's time to put their "beliefs" into practice.

We wouldn't need tag cuts if the anti opportunity guys just cut theirs up.

Draws will be out in a few days, I'm waiting breathlessly for the vids.

What day can I expect yours?

 

[hossblur]

The DEW must have been flowing strong for Bess to be posting so early/late.

Nah.

I got under his skin with the cut up your tag video challenge.

He's been searching for a way out, but he's either a true believer, and cuts it up, or he's a blow hard.

As we get closer to draws, wanna bet which it is?

 

[Vanilla]

As we get closer to draws, wanna bet which it is?

Easiest bet you’ll ever make!

 

[DBG3285]

Give this a try and see if it helps answer some of your questions.

https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1166&context=usupress_pubs

Thank you for that middle fork!

While it did answer some questions it did not answer them all.

But I found it interesting that they openly admit in the study/article that they no longer manage populations by biology or ecology. But by hunter prefernce/ experience

 

[elkhunter81]

Thank you for that middle fork!

While it did answer some questions it did not answer them all.

But I found it interesting that they openly admit in the study/article that they no longer manage populations by biology or ecology. But by hunter prefernce/ experience

IMO that is why they have been mismanaged for the last several decades. Seems there is a lot of pisscutter talk, but nothing really to help to herd grow. More concern for the size of antlers then the size of the herd

 

[Muley_73]

Not a single one.

Not you, not Muley 73, not any of the constant "cut tags" whiners.

Iits funny how self righteous guys are, until it's time to put their "beliefs" into practice.

We wouldn't need tag cuts if the anti opportunity guys just cut theirs up.

Draws will be out in a few days, I'm waiting breathlessly for the vids.

What day can I expect yours?

Hoss,
I’ve killed 2 general season bucks in 16 years. Last one was a wounded buck on the last night of the hunt 9 years ago. I currently have 11 general preference points. I’m not much of an impact on the herd.

 

[DBG3285]

Let's be honest.

No trophy hunter cares about age class. They ain't shooting a 9yr old 2 point, but would gun down a 4 yr old 30" buck.

"Age class", like "quality" is a myth

That’s not completely true.

While it’s the exception and not the rule. The families that hunt where we hunt and have for generations, are all in the DH program. And we all are willing to shoot large 2s and 3s that aren’t genetically inferior to help our herds keep better genes. And we all consider ourselves trophy hunters.

 

[Muley_73]

That’s not completely true.

While it’s the exception and not the rule. The families that hunt where we hunt and have for generations, are all in the DH program. And we all are willing to shoot large 2s and 3s that aren’t genetically inferior to help our herds keep better genes. And we all consider ourselves trophy hunters.

Agreed, the family I’ve hunted with has passed score over age class for a lot of seasons. Not always but that’s the goal.

 

[hossblur]

Hoss,
I’ve killed 2 general season bucks in 16 years. Last one was a wounded buck on the last night of the hunt 9 years ago. I currently have 11 general preference points. I’m not much of an impact on the herd.

Oh, perhaps you missed the point.

You want others to lose their opportunity, which includes their kids.

So the offer of a video extends to your whole family, I know you have kids

 

[hossblur]

Agreed, the family I’ve hunted with has passed score over age class for a lot of seasons. Not always but that’s the goal.

Ya?

They got ear tags telling you the age? Did you ID them?

Oh, I know, real hunters can tell the age

 

[hossblur]

That’s not completely true.

While it’s the exception and not the rule. The families that hunt where we hunt and have for generations, are all in the DH program. And we all are willing to shoot large 2s and 3s that aren’t genetically inferior to help our herds keep better genes. And we all consider ourselves trophy hunters.

You do realize the DH program is 100% about opportunity.

The opportunity to hunt more, with multiple weapons.

I do DH too.

 

[Muley_73]

Ya?

They got ear tags telling you the age? Did you ID them?

Oh, I know, real hunters can tell the age

Well, generally off of tooth data, some off of history with the deer.

 

[Keystone]

It's hilarious how Hoss pinned guys.

I read all the same virtue signaling as everyone else. Same guys all the time, yearly.

Then one dude, Hoss, calls bullxhit on their talk, and now full grown men, twisting, spinning, dodging.


Some of us are old school. We watched Eastwood.

You gonna pull that pistol, or whistle Dixie. Lots of dudes suddenly whistling Dixie.

Elkass suddenly has amnesia. Muley 73 so disgusted he's piling up points.

Props to the sheetrocker, one challenge exposed dudes for what they are, NOISE.

BTW. I plan on hunting deer, elk, moose, antelope, birds, rabbits, and anything else the great state of Utah will give me a tag for. No virtue signal here

 

[hossblur]

Well, generally off of tooth data, some off of history with the deer.

So you pull the tooth prior to shooting it huh?

Straight up ninja I guess

 

[Muley_73]

Oh, perhaps you missed the point.

You want others to lose their opportunity, which includes their kids.

So the offer of a video extends to your whole family, I know you have kids

Hoss,
Wife has 7 general points
Daughter has 7 general points
Son sat out the last 2 years
Son has 9 general points.

They have killed 2 stags, and 5 4 points total in the past decade.

We are pretty low impact on Utahs herd.

If hunters want their kids to hunt now days it’s easy!!! Just don’t get hung up on Utah mule deer or set a plan and follow it!

 

[hossblur]

It's hilarious how Hoss pinned guys.

I read all the same virtue signaling as everyone else. Same guys all the time, yearly.

Then one dude, Hoss, calls bullxhit on their talk, and now full grown men, twisting, spinning, dodging.


Some of us are old school. We watched Eastwood.

You gonna pull that pistol, or whistle Dixie. Lots of dudes suddenly whistling Dixie.

Elkass suddenly has amnesia. Muley 73 so disgusted he's piling up points.

Props to the sheetrocker, one challenge exposed dudes for what they are, NOISE.

BTW. I plan on hunting deer, elk, moose, antelope, birds, rabbits, and anything else the great state of Utah will give me a tag for. No virtue signal here

My teenagers don't make as many excuses as these guys.

It's fun watching. But they need not worry, bow hunt starts in Aug, so they have plenty of time to video up

 

[Muley_73]

So you pull the tooth prior to shooting it huh?

Straight up ninja I guess

Yep that’s it.

 

[hossblur]

Hoss,
Wife has 7 general points
Daughter has 7 general points
Son sat out the last 2 years
Son has 9 general points.

They have killed 2 stags, and 5 4 points total in the past decade.

We are pretty low impact on Utahs herd.

If hunters want their kids to hunt now days it’s easy!!! Just don’t get hung up on Utah mule deer or set a plan and follow it!

Wait, what?

Utah management sucks so bad the whole family is stockpiling points?

Imagine my shock

I hope your kids hunt yearly. But then I'm pretty honest about my principles.

Btw, I read Colorado deer numbers are down too. Guess you'll stay home from there as well?

You do care about mule deer after all, right?

 

[hossblur]

Yep that’s it.

 

[Muley_73]

It's hilarious how Hoss pinned guys.

I read all the same virtue signaling as everyone else. Same guys all the time, yearly.

Then one dude, Hoss, calls bullxhit on their talk, and now full grown men, twisting, spinning, dodging.


Some of us are old school. We watched Eastwood.

You gonna pull that pistol, or whistle Dixie. Lots of dudes suddenly whistling Dixie.

Elkass suddenly has amnesia. Muley 73 so disgusted he's piling up points.

Props to the sheetrocker, one challenge exposed dudes for what they are, NOISE.

BTW. I plan on hunting deer, elk, moose, antelope, birds, rabbits, and anything else the great state of Utah will give me a tag for. No virtue signal here

I said general…lol. In the past 5 years we’ve killed a pile of mature bucks. Just not on general season Utah tags. Along with a pile of coues, elk, moose, sheep….and more.

But I like that you’re congratulating hoss on losing every year and thinking coming on MM to argue is helping at all.

Off season entertainment!

 

[notdonhunting]

So we keep hearing from some of you guys about shutting units down.
Now they did that on a few units around 20 years ago. Let's just take the Book Clifs for example.
Close unit down 5 years, apply 10 years (rounded down) to draw, can't apply for 5 years (DWR mandatory) apply another 10 years and now the unit is shot out (according to some).
So at best you would get a tag for the unit of your preference once in 15 to 20 years, and it still might be not favorable for mature bucks depending on if you hunt the unit right after it opens up or a few years later and it has already been shot out.
No thanks

 

[hossblur]

I said general…lol. In the past 5 years we’ve killed a pile of mature bucks. Just not on general season Utah tags. Along with a pile of coues, elk, moose, sheep….and more.

But I like that you’re congratulating hoss on losing every year and thinking coming on MM to argue is helping at all.

Off season entertainment!

So, to summarize.

Utah sucks, but you put in yearly. Your for mule deer, yet, you'll run to Colorado where their decline mirrors ours. You can age deer on the hoof. Without you(your words) deer hunting in Utah would really suck. Utah housed 1.5 million deer in the golden age, but only 3-4 bucks per doe.

Your pro sfw, then your not, then you were now your not, except for a week ago you were, but now your not, but tomorrow you will be from 9 to 10:30, then again at 6.

You know the secret sauce to deer management, yet you've never managed a single deer.



Just trying to keep it written down.


So, when is that tag cut video coming? May 26th? 27th?

 

[Keystone]

I said general…lol. In the past 5 years we’ve killed a pile of mature bucks. Just not on general season Utah tags. Along with a pile of coues, elk, moose, sheep….and more. But I like that you’re congratulating hoss on losing every year and thinking coming on MM to argue is helping at all. Off season entertainment!

If utah management socks. Why would you support it with points buys? Honest question

 

[Muley_73]

keystone,
I still hunt Utah … Just like hoss does. Doesn’t mean I agree with the management always….just like hoss.

I still buy points and apply. Still hunt. Still donate …every single year.

Just disagree on some issues.

 

[Keystone]

So you don't find it at all hypocritical to call for tag cuts while not cutting yourself?


I've read his stuff for a couple years on this topic. He's never denied he's an opportunist.

What separates you from him, if you do the same thing he does?

keystone,
I still hunt Utah … Just like hoss does. Doesn’t mean I agree with the management always….just like hoss.

I still buy points and apply. Still hunt. Still donate …every single year.

Just disagree on some issues.

 

[Muley_73]

So, to summarize.

Utah sucks, but you put in yearly. Your for mule deer, yet, you'll run to Colorado where their decline mirrors ours. You can age deer on the hoof. Without you(your words) deer hunting in Utah would really suck. Utah housed 1.5 million deer in the golden age, but only 3-4 bucks per doe.

Your pro sfw, then your not, then you were now your not, except for a week ago you were, but now your not, but tomorrow you will be from 9 to 10:30, then again at 6.

You know the secret sauce to deer management, yet you've never managed a single deer.



Just trying to keep it written down.


So, when is that tag cut video coming? May 26th? 27th?

Hoss,
Did I say I was hunting CO? You assume a lot…I honestly think that’s why you believe others do as well.

I’ll keep pushing for my agenda …just like you’ll push for yours. It honesty doesn’t eat me up like it does you. I’ll be hunting Utah…again this year. Along with some of the fam and others will not. My entire fall is loaded up with hunts. I don’t like some is the management views…it’s doesn’t consume me and keep me from hunting.

Sorry but I’m not sorry if that bothers you…In all honesty with the way you act I hope it does bother you.

 

[hossblur]

So you don't find it at all hypocritical to call for tag cuts while not cutting yourself?


I've read his stuff for a couple years on this topic. He's never denied he's an opportunist.

What separates you from him, if you do the same thing he does?

I'm honest.

 

[hossblur]

Hoss,
Did I say I was hunting CO? You assume a lot…I honestly think that’s why you believe others do as well.

I’ll keep pushing for my agenda …just like you’ll push for yours. It honesty doesn’t eat me up like it does you. I’ll be hunting Utah…again this year. Along with some of the fam and others will not. My entire fall is loaded up with hunts. I don’t like some is the management views…it’s doesn’t consume me and keep me from hunting.

Sorry but I’m not sorry if that bothers you…In all honesty with the way you act I hope it does bother you.

Short memory I guess.

Same challenge I've hit you with previous years.

YOU told me you and your kids hunt Colorado.

I guess maybe you should write down stuff


Think your deer tag is tied to a buck? I read that you think it should be

 

[Muley_73]

Hoss,
I’ve had one tag in CO in the past 35 years. I may draw this year. I did apply…but not in the units cutting tags so it may affect my odds. Not mad, glad they cut them if it was needed. My kids have never hunted CO. Again you’re putting words in my mouth. I honestly don’t care.

Cry some more and let me know how it works out. I’ll keep fighting the fight the way why I do. I’ll keep hunting the way I want when I can.

Your input and screaming literally doesn’t affect me at all…not even a tiny bit. Other than a faceless whiner the DWR uses to continue to justify poor management….I’ve learned to work around that.

 

[hossblur]

Hoss,
I’ve had one tag in CO in the past 35 years. I may draw this year. I did apply…but not in the units cutting tags so it may affect my odds. Not mad, glad they cut them if it was needed. My kids have never hunted CO. Again you’re putting words in my mouth. I honestly don’t care.

Cry some more and let me know how it works out. I’ll keep fighting the fight the way why I do. I’ll keep hunting the way I want when I can.

Your input and screaming literally doesn’t affect me at all…not even a tiny bit. Other than a faceless whiner the DWR uses to continue to justify poor management….I’ve learned to work around that.

I like how you have points all over the country, but "haven't had a tag"

Your a much bigger opportunist than any of the ones in here. You seek opportunity all over the west.

And I'm Ut, Co, Wyoming, their deer are declining identically to ours.

Your "for the mule deer", but give you a tag, and your good.

Every damn "prescription " you pise, you don't follow in real life.

Your like a closeted gay dude. The whole world knows your an opportunist, your the only one who thinks they are hiding it. You can come out, we will let you pretend, and not even notice how much opportunity you take, as you try to hunt states with the same declines as here, of course do to factors other than management

 

[treedagain]

Hoss,
Wife has 7 general points
Daughter has 7 general points
Son sat out the last 2 years
Son has 9 general points.

They have killed 2 stags, and 5 4 points total in the past decade.

We are pretty low impact on Utahs herd.

If hunters want their kids to hunt now days it’s easy!!! Just don’t get hung up on Utah mule deer or set a plan and follow it!

So pretty much your a fair weather camper? Don't sound like you pack a rifle much?

 

[Keystone]

@Muley_73

You might not like his style, but Hoss keeps pounding the same point, and you and elkass keep dodging it.

Honest question.

If management sucks, and the herds are so bad, why are you putting in for deer tags?

I didn't like what WY has done th
e last few years, so I quit supporting them.

I didn't buy points, then *****.

so, why are you putting in to hunt deer that are managed as poorly as you claim?

 

[hossblur]

@Muley_73

You might not like his style, but Hoss keeps pounding the same point, and you and elkass keep dodging it.

Honest question.

If management sucks, and the herds are so bad, why are you putting in for deer tags?

I didn't like what WY has done th
e last few years, so I quit supporting them.

I didn't buy points, then *****.

so, why are you putting in to hunt deer that are managed as poorly as you claim?

You know when you go out to Wendover and see your Mormon neighbor and his wife half chit faced, her boobs pushed up and put on Friday night, then see them headed to church Sunday?

Similar deal with them. They want to finger wag and judge, not actually live their words.

 

[Muley_73]

I like how you have points all over the country, but "haven't had a tag"

Your a much bigger opportunist than any of the ones in here. You seek opportunity all over the west.

And I'm Ut, Co, Wyoming, their deer are declining identically to ours.

Your "for the mule deer", but give you a tag, and your good.

Every damn "prescription " you pise, you don't follow in real life.

Your like a closeted gay dude. The whole world knows your an opportunist, your the only one who thinks they are hiding it. You can come out, we will let you pretend, and not even notice how much opportunity you take, as you try to hunt states with the same declines as here, of course do to factors other than management

Keep crying Hoss and spinning your own story. I’m good being me and how I approach the situation.

Let me know when you’re winning cause is seems youre getting Shitttt on everytime I turn around. Better luck next year Chief!

 

[hossblur]

Keep crying Hoss and spinning your own story. I’m good being me and how I approach the situation.

Let me know when you’re winning cause is seems youre getting Shitttt on everytime I turn around. Better luck next year Chief!

Aug, Manti canyon, I'll have a bow in my hand.

Along with all the opportunists

Same next year.

#winning

 

[Muley_73]

Aug, Manti canyon, I'll have a bow in my hand.

Along with all the opportunists

Same next year.

#winning

Good luck!!! I hope you stick a buck that makes you happy. And I hope your kids get tags too and have a great experience and memories!

 

[DBG3285]

You do realize the DH program is 100% about opportunity.

The opportunity to hunt more, with multiple weapons.

I do DH too.

I do.

I have never implied I want unit shut down or anything.

I think we should go to pre 93 management and let people hunt deer.

 

[elkassassin]

GFHC!

It Must Take A Long F'N Time For Mud To Dry?

I Shoulda Stayed Home Today & F'D Off On MM All Damn Day!

But 3:00 AM Came Early!

Sometimes 13 Ain't Enough!

 

[Vanilla]

I am still wondering what the magic number is for tag cuts for people BAWLING for tag cuts. Have we reached it yet?

Or next year are you still going to be BAWLING for more?

Nobody seems to want to answer that question, but just BAWL about it.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Niller!

I Talked A Tag Cut Of 10 Tags & You F'N BAWLED!

The DWR/WB Just Cut A Few More Than That!

Ya!

The People You Call THE PRO'S!

Made the Cuts!

How's That Treatin You Just About Now?

Did you E-Mail Them & Chew Their Asses?

Did You Write Them Letters Chewing Their Asses?

Did You Chew Their Asses On Social Media Like You Have Mine?

I am still wondering what the magic number is for tag cuts for people BAWLING for tag cuts. Have we reached it yet?

Or next year are you still going to be BAWLING for more?

Nobody seems to want to answer that question, but just BAWL about it.

 

[elkassassin]

You Can Put Your Money Where Your F'N Mouth Is Too!

It's hilarious how Hoss pinned guys.

I read all the same virtue signaling as everyone else. Same guys all the time, yearly.

Then one dude, Hoss, calls bullxhit on their talk, and now full grown men, twisting, spinning, dodging.


Some of us are old school. We watched Eastwood.

You gonna pull that pistol, or whistle Dixie. Lots of dudes suddenly whistling Dixie.

Elkass suddenly has amnesia. Muley 73 so disgusted he's piling up points.

Props to the sheetrocker, one challenge exposed dudes for what they are, NOISE.

BTW. I plan on hunting deer, elk, moose, antelope, birds, rabbits, and anything else the great state of Utah will give me a tag for. No virtue signal here

 

[middlefork]

Elk the "PRO'S" recommended a few adjustments to their proposals.

The wildlife board flat out ignored those. So yes there will be some communication sent.

And for the record the biologists recommended lowering the tags for the unit for which I applied and I'm good with that. Of course they increased tags last year by 1000 and I was also ok with it. Net sum went to 2021 levels.

 

[elkassassin]

I'm Gonna Play A Song For You Boys!

Turn The F'N Volume Up LOUD!

Ya!

WELCOME TO THE F'N FUTURE!

 

[elkassassin]

Now I've Got It On My F'N Phone!

Well!

hossy Had It On His Phone Till Recently!

 

[Vanilla]

So I take it by my that long nonsensical answer, you’re just going to keep BAWLING for rag cuts.

Got it.

 

[notdonhunting]

So I take it by my that long nonsensical answer, you’re just going to keep BAWLING for rag cuts.

Got it.

But he only wants 10 tags cut.
That is going to make a big difference for the deer herds of Utah.

 

[elkassassin]

Nave You Been Drinking Niller?

Your GRAMMAR SUCKS In This Post!

I'm Not Even Asking for 10 Tags Cut!

The DWR Cut Them Same 10 Tags Before I Mentioned It and I Didn't Know It Until JakeH Posted It!

Go Ahead Niller!

CHEW The DWR's/WB's Ass For All The Tags They Just Cut Since You're The KING!

How's That Treatin You Just About Now?

So I take it by my that long nonsensical answer, you’re just going to keep BAWLING for rag cuts.

Got it.

 

[hossblur]

Good luck!!! I hope you stick a buck that makes you happy. And I hope your kids get tags too and have a great experience and memories!

I suck at bow hunting. But it sure beats sitting home. Either way, not a deer need worry
I hope the same for yours.

That's why I can't figure out the tag cut stand.

Why?

Just don't shoot a damn deer if that's your worry. But why try to keep your neighbor from those memories

GFHC!

It Must Take A Long F'N Time For Mud To Dry?

I Shoulda Stayed Home Today & F'D Off On MM All Damn Day!

But 3:00 AM Came Early!

Sometimes 13 Ain't Enough!

Mom was having day surgery, I got the honor of a waiting room.

Great folks work at hospitals, still a long day

 

[Muley_73]

I suck at bow hunting. But it sure beats sitting home. Either way, not a deer need worry
I hope the same for yours.

That's why I can't figure out the tag cut stand.

Why?

Just don't shoot a damn deer if that's your worry. But why try to keep your neighbor from those memories

Mom was having day surgery, I got the honor of a waiting room.

Great folks work at hospitals, still a long day

Hoss,
Did you hear me say a word about cutting tags this year? I disagreed with the added tags on some of the southern units I hunt. That was based on the fact that the local biologist year before last said the numbers on the unit over all were so low that they could not get an actual count. Last year I was told the same thing. So when I see the DWR recommend adding 50 tags it seems irresponsible to me. It makes me question yet again other units. I didn’t scream and yell for tag cuts this year. Yes I was bummed they were adding tags on some of the units based in what I’ve seen on those units the past few years but not bummed enough to even attend a meeting or send emails. An eyeroll and I planned my hunts for the year.
My feeling was that they added tags to those units to make up for the units they cut tags on. They only point to biologist when it suits them. Did the Pine Valley really bounce back that much in one year? Was it wrong last year but right this year on the counts?
I don’t not want people to hunt or have tags. I want solid management and an actual plan that puts the resource ahead of opportunity. When people make comments like we should go back to 1993 tags…it’s irresponsible. It’s not about big bucks or special interest groups it’s about pounding a resource with the one factor we can control the best.

Hope all is well with your mom!

 

[Muley_73]

So pretty much your a fair weather camper? Don't sound like you pack a rifle much?

Tree…..Utah general season deer is one season of MANY. I figure out to how to get a day or two in somewhere every season…sometimes 30 or 40.

 

[hossblur]

Hoss,
Did you hear me say a word about cutting tags this year? I disagreed with the added tags on some of the southern units I hunt. That was based on the fact that the local biologist year before last said the numbers on the unit over all were so low that they could not get an actual count. Last year I was told the same thing. So when I see the DWR recommend adding 50 tags it seems irresponsible to me. It makes me question yet again other units. I didn’t scream and yell for tag cuts this year. Yes I was bummed they were adding tags on some of the units based in what I’ve seen on those units the past few years but not bummed enough to even attend a meeting or send emails. An eyeroll and I planned my hunts for the year.
My feeling was that they added tags to those units to make up for the units they cut tags on. They only point to biologist when it suits them. Did the Pine Valley really bounce back that much in one year? Was it wrong last year but right this year on the counts?
I don’t not want people to hunt or have tags. I want solid management and an actual plan that puts the resource ahead of opportunity. When people make comments like we should go back to 1993 tags…it’s irresponsible. It’s not about big bucks or special interest groups it’s about pounding a resource with the one factor we can control the best.

Hope all is well with your mom!

You did call for a tag per buck, right?

Which would be based on counts previous to shedding I'll assume.

So that's a tag cut. Right, especially because your discounting yearlings.


But again, why cut tags?

I'd be all for 4 point or better. Let guys hunt.

But big picture, cutting tags means we either lose hunters, or it just screws odds in other units.

Further, you can't scream about management, then support cutting that managements funding source. Because all that happens is $fw, MDF, etc gain more power and more sway.

Even more important. Cox is from Fairview so at least he knows there's life out of SLC. But the next one might not. Losing political clout because we lose hunters, costs us a lot more than any gain by cutting them.

There are big fights over land, that when hunters and their interests lose, cost a lot more deer than 50 tags can shoot.

We are WAYYYYY to myopic.

 

[Muley_73]

You did call for a tag per buck, right?

Which would be based on counts previous to shedding I'll assume.

So that's a tag cut. Right, especially because your discounting yearlings.


But again, why cut tags?

I'd be all for 4 point or better. Let guys hunt.

But big picture, cutting tags means we either lose hunters, or it just screws odds in other units.

Further, you can't scream about management, then support cutting that managements funding source. Because all that happens is $fw, MDF, etc gain more power and more sway.

Even more important. Cox is from Fairview so at least he knows there's life out of SLC. But the next one might not. Losing political clout because we lose hunters, costs us a lot more than any gain by cutting them.

There are big fights over land, that when hunters and their interests lose, cost a lot more deer than 50 tags can shoot.

We are WAYYYYY to myopic.

Hoss,
If you actually read my post you would see I made a list of options that would help without cutting tags. Including antler restriction. Vanilla immediately said no to all. Others are saying going back to 93 hunt numbers. I’m serious that without some pushing back and fighting for the actual resource …we would be out of deer already.
A tag per buck seems irresponsible to me. When it’s the only thing we can actual control…even according to you. Unless you issue more primitive weapon permits…then I’m willing to support that…just like antler restriction. I’d support more elk tags if we can grow more deer…but will that cause more opportunity than it’s takes away in the end if we over harvest elk? I’d support shorter seasons. Limit technology across the board, no range finders on any season, no scoped muzzys, no mechanical broadheads…and the list could expand. But with success rates as high as they are I think it’s not sound conservation to issue the same number of tags as bucks.

 

[DBG3285]

Hoss,
Did you hear me say a word about cutting tags this year? I disagreed with the added tags on some of the southern units I hunt. That was based on the fact that the local biologist year before last said the numbers on the unit over all were so low that they could not get an actual count. Last year I was told the same thing. So when I see the DWR recommend adding 50 tags it seems irresponsible to me. It makes me question yet again other units. I didn’t scream and yell for tag cuts this year. Yes I was bummed they were adding tags on some of the units based in what I’ve seen on those units the past few years but not bummed enough to even attend a meeting or send emails. An eyeroll and I planned my hunts for the year.
My feeling was that they added tags to those units to make up for the units they cut tags on. They only point to biologist when it suits them. Did the Pine Valley really bounce back that much in one year? Was it wrong last year but right this year on the counts?
I don’t not want people to hunt or have tags. I want solid management and an actual plan that puts the resource ahead of opportunity. When people make comments like we should go back to 1993 tags…it’s irresponsible. It’s not about big bucks or special interest groups it’s about pounding a resource with the one factor we can control the best.

Hope all is well with your mom!

Muley,

This solely an assumption, so correct me if I am wrong.

I assume your 1993 tags comment was directed at me/my comment?

If so, I would implore you to actually read my comment again and understand what was actually stated, and not twist it and use your emotions and conjecture to fit your narratives for arguments sake.

 

[Muley_73]

Muley,

This solely an assumption, so correct me if I am wrong.

I assume your 1993 tags comment was directed at me/my comment?

If so, I would implore you to actually read my comment again and understand what was actually stated, and not twist it and use your emotions and conjecture to fit your narratives for arguments sake.

DBG,
Did you not say go back to the way things were in 93?

 

[DBG3285]

DBG,
Did you not say go back to the way things were in 93?

No.

I said I wish we would go to Pre 93 management.

If you read the management of Utah mule deer article that was supplied earlier in the thread.93 was when they stopped using biology, ecology, and harvest as an indicator for management.

Our deer herds (at least in my area) have never been close to what they were in the 80s and 90s (I am not old enough to comment prior to that).

So my comment was saying I wish they would go back to managing for herds, not people feelings.

 

[Muley_73]

No.

I said I wish we would go to Pre 93 management.

If you read the management of Utah mule deer article that was supplied earlier in the thread.93 was when they stopped using biology, ecology, and harvest as an indicator for management.

Our deer herds (at least in my area) have never been close to what they were in the 80s and 90s (I am not old enough to comment prior to that).

So my comment was saying I wish they would go back to managing for herds, not people feelings.

Then I stand corrected . I apologize for the misread and I do agree that I would like to manage the resource.

 

[berrysblaster]

Hoss,
Wife has 7 general points
Daughter has 7 general points
Son sat out the last 2 years
Son has 9 general points.

They have killed 2 stags, and 5 4 points total in the past decade.

We are pretty low impact on Utahs herd.

If hunters want their kids to hunt now days it’s easy!!! Just don’t get hung up on Utah mule deer or set a plan and follow it!

Man, I’ve got some words for this but on this place every one of them would get me banned.

What a joke of a position.

 

[hossblur]

None of the things you said about success I disagree with.

But that's why tag cuts should be off the table.

If for no other than a mandate or milestone for DWR management.

It's too easy to cut tags in April. The Majority of dudes are at work, it's April, so hunts are far off.

Look at how hard Bess is whining about simple crap like a muzzy scope. Should never have been allowed to start with.

You could follow Idaho and Colorado regs, no scope, no sabot, #11 caps, loose powder.

Cuts the efficiency way down, doesn't take a single tag.

Having been through open bull, to spike only, antler restrictions work. Yes, there are some bad kills, but they lessen as time goes on. Do it on a region, make south east 3pt or better, 5 year commitment, see how it goes. Smaller deer survive, no hunter lost.

Cut down down gun tags, add muzzy(with new rules) and archery. Drive pressure into less efficient weapons. No overall loss in hunters.


If you truly believe that Utah needs more "quality" bucks, tag cuts do nothing to accomplish that. Same percentage of small bucks get killed. Killing off small bucks, doesn't give you bigger ones.

But none of that grows herds much, only the number of bucks left after a season.

Real increases in herd numbers will come from major landscape changes. Fencing, and overpasses being #1&2, along with money from the new law passed this year(despite Bess complaining about saving cats) being put to use buying habitat. And for that, we need funding and political pressure. Fewer and fewer dudes don't create pressure.

Cutting tags is a feel good measure, looks like something is being done, shuts up the "quality" dudes without really increasing that

 

[middlefork]

No.

I said I wish we would go to Pre 93 management.

If you read the management of Utah mule deer article that was supplied earlier in the thread.93 was when they stopped using biology, ecology, and harvest as an indicator for management.

Our deer herds (at least in my area) have never been close to what they were in the 80s and 90s (I am not old enough to comment prior to that).

So my comment was saying I wish they would go back to managing for herds, not people feelings.

Wasn't 1993 when SFW was founded? Coincidence?

 

[elkhunterUT]

Cut down down gun tags, add muzzy(with new rules) and archery. Drive pressure into less efficient weapons. No overall loss in hunters.

You and Vanilla were on the same page until you dropped this bomb He does NOT like this take!!

It is 100% the way to go, though

 

[quest]

If they create primitive hunts are they going to take those tags out of the general season tags for deer?

 

[Muley_73]

Hoss,
Why won’t the DWR implement any of these things? Maybe it’s not mismanagement it’s just lack of management.

 

[Muley_73]

Wasn't 1993 when SFW was founded? Coincidence?

Middle,
Without poor management SFW would have never existed. The were a result of mismanagement.

 

[Muley_73]

Man, I’ve got some words for this but on this place every one of them would get me banned.

What a joke of a position.

Berry,
Feel free. Lol

 

[berrysblaster]

Berry,
Feel free. Lol

To be clear, I’m not angry nor would I ever say this in an insulting manner. I would tell you this face to face in the same manner I try to communicate here. I just feel like this thought process is remarkably selfish, inherently short sighted, and very damning for hunters and hunting in general.

The ‘just go somewhere else attitude’ which is how I read the make a plan sentence works off assumptions that: 1. People are in the same financial place as you are and 2. That hunting in your own back yard has the same value as hunting elsewhere. To me at least, it seems like people who use this see the world through a very narrow lens centered on themselves and their own personal standing and experience.

I want my kids to get hooked on hunting mule deer here, in my home state and units where the memories I shared with my dad and grandpa are rooted.

Then there’s the whole ‘we don’t kill deer’/have a bunch of points argument that is asinine at its base as well. You can just as easily not kill deer with a tag in pocket, so essentially all you’re telling me is you don’t care about hunting enough to even be bothered getting out unless the situation is convenient enough to fit the mold of your narrow definition of acceptable.

That’s how I read it anyways, and man it’s a sour taste.

 

[Vanilla]

Hoss,
If you actually read my post you would see I made a list of options that would help without cutting tags. Including antler restriction. Vanilla immediately said no to all.

Go ahead and quote where I said no to all that.

 

[hossblur]

You and Vanilla were on the same page until you dropped this bomb He does NOT like this take!!

It is 100% the way to go, though

Vanilla even when we disagree is a pretty logical, thoughtful guy. As a guy who hasn't missed an opener of the rifle season since I was 3 1/2, I understand the tradition. But sitting home because we just whack more tags, is a horrible tradition.

I think we all need to either give up a little, or some will give up everything. I'm for a little

 

[hossblur]

Hoss,
Why won’t the DWR implement any of these things? Maybe it’s not mismanagement it’s just lack of management.

Think wade Heaton makes more on archery or rifle?

 

[hossblur]

Middle,
Without poor management SFW would have never existed. The were a result of mismanagement.

Nahhhh.

First, Utah is the scam capital of America, because folks are trusting, especially if you see the scammer at church on Sunday.

Second he(The Don) is a very good lobbyist who understood the majority of hunters wanted to be left alone. He also understood he could say whatever he wanted, "save mule deer", "Serengeti of the West", but that money talked to politicians.

He's an evil POS, but he's effective at dealing with under an un informed legislators.

Roughly same deer herd today as 93', not a chance sfw gets off the ground, guys are more educated.

 

[Shadow]

Well said Berry. I certainly don’t need a harvest to eat but I’ll take the tag every chance I get. I think I’ve killed three deer in the last dozen or more years, one on a LE tag.
I know many people just like myself who eat tags most every year so in essence, we’re cutting tags without cutting tags.
Tag numbers have dropped from over 200k to 65k, many of which are just like me and rarely shoot yet we still have those who think tag cuts are the answer. SMH.

 

[Muley_73]

To be clear, I’m not angry nor would I ever say this in an insulting manner. I would tell you this face to face in the same manner I try to communicate here. I just feel like this thought process is remarkably selfish, inherently short sighted, and very damning for hunters and hunting in general.

The ‘just go somewhere else attitude’ which is how I read the make a plan sentence works off assumptions that: 1. People are in the same financial place as you are and 2. That hunting in your own back yard has the same value as hunting elsewhere. To me at least, it seems like people who use this see the world through a very narrow lens centered on themselves and their own personal standing and experience.

I want my kids to get hooked on hunting mule deer here, in my home state and units where the memories I shared with my dad and grandpa are rooted.

Then there’s the whole ‘we don’t kill deer’/have a bunch of points argument that is asinine at its base as well. You can just as easily not kill deer with a tag in pocket, so essentially all you’re telling me is you don’t care about hunting enough to even be bothered getting out unless the situation is convenient enough to fit the mold of your narrow definition of acceptable.

That’s how I read it anyways, and man it’s a sour taste.

Berry,
I hunt every single year. My son that is a big hunter hunts every single year…in Utah. On the units we enjoy hunting. My wife likes to go about once every 5 years. She drew an LE tag and hunted the entire 9 days on that hunt a couple years ago so she’s good for a few but banking points is smart for when she wants to go and to have another family member bump up off her points. My daughter killed a couple nice bucks and decided she has other focus at the moment. She’s tells me build her points so she can go when it lines up with her schedule. My other son, he’s shot a few nice bucks and would rather flyfish at this point. They all apply for LE and we have had some great hunts the past 6 years with that. But they all still build points.. I have 11 because I played the 2nd choice game until they closed that loop. Drew LE deer tags, and just bought points for some years that family had LE tags. Both me and my son that hunts a lot are in the Dedicated hunter program. My nephews all have got to hunt almost every year. They also share points with them and the family has mentored a lot of tags. We made a plan and we loop Utah into that plan. Even if we didn’t hunt out of state we have a plan in Utah.
I guess I look at only having Utahs general hunt as an option is narrow minded and short sighted. It’s selfish to say I don’t want to prioritize hunting with my kids enough to only have Utahs general season tag as an option so give more tags. Buy them all an elk tag and hunt your backyard every single year. My kids spend HUGE amounts of time on the mountain and desert, rivers and lakes in Utah. They have a ton of hunting days under their belts in Utah. A lot of those days have been tied to an Utah general season deer tag….but most have not.

 

[Muley_73]

Nahhhh.

First, Utah is the scam capital of America, because folks are trusting, especially if you see the scammer at church on Sunday.

Second he(The Don) is a very good lobbyist who understood the majority of hunters wanted to be left alone. He also understood he could say whatever he wanted, "save mule deer", "Serengeti of the West", but that money talked to politicians.

He's an evil POS, but he's effective at dealing with under an un informed legislators.

Roughly same deer herd today as 93', not a chance sfw gets off the ground, guys are more educated.

Hoss,
You described the group and guy that took advantage of the poor management better than anyone…true. But there were other smaller groups in the state screaming. They were hammering the DWR far before Don saw the opening. That was all on the DWR for mismanaging for so many years.

 

[hossblur]

Hoss,
You described the group and guy that took advantage of the poor management better than anyone…true. But there were other smaller groups in the state screaming. They were hammering the DWR far before Don saw the opening. That was all on the DWR for mismanaging for so many years.

I happen to remember that winter pretty foundly.

, I was trying to drive a Camaro to Weber state and gave up and bought a truck cuz 36th street and Uintah hill were snow packed all winter.

DWR doesn't manage snow.

 

[hossblur]

Is amazing. All these times @Muley_73 has gone after "opportunists", and yet, he's every bit the opportunist any of us are, and more, as he hunted gs and built points, and is dh, and mentors tags for kids who DIDNT DRAW.

All of which others do, but not while screaming about "management", and cuts

 

[Muley_73]

Think wade Heaton makes more on archery or rifle?

Hoss,
Come on …you know Wade’s tags are LO tags and they can be wherever the operators wants. They don’t get rifle or archery or Muzzy. Is that really the best answer you could come up with.

 

[hossblur]

Hoss,
Come on …you know Wade’s tags are LO tags and they can be wherever the operators wants. They don’t get rifle or archery or Muzzy. Is that really the best answer you could come up with.

So you are telling me that Heaton has zero friends in the guide world?

Is that what we are to believe?

Ever meet Byron Bateman?

 

[elkassassin]

I suck at bow hunting. But it sure beats sitting home. Either way, not a deer need worry
I hope the same for yours.

That's why I can't figure out the tag cut stand.

Why?

Just don't shoot a damn deer if that's your worry. But why try to keep your neighbor from those memories

Mom was having day surgery, I got the honor of a waiting room.

Great folks work at hospitals, still a long day

Sorry hossy!

I Hope She's Doing Well!

I Just Thought You Mighta Been Watching Mud Dry Again!

 

[Muley_73]

Think wade Heaton makes more on archery or rifle?

Hoss,
Come on …you know Wade’s tags are LO tags and they can be wherever the operators wants. They don’t get rifle or archery or Muzzy. Is that really the best answer you could come up with.

 

[hossblur]

Sorry hossy!

I Hope She's Doing Well!

I Just Thought You Mighta Been Watching Mud Dry Again!

New knee.

She's high today

 

[elkassassin]

Damn!

I Need One Too!

New knee.

She's high today

 

[Muley_73]

Is amazing. All these times @Muley_73 has gone after "opportunists", and yet, he's every bit the opportunist any of us are, and more, as he hunted gs and built points, and is dh, and mentors tags for kids who DIDNT DRAW.

All of which others do, but not while screaming about "management", and cuts

Lol, yes hoss. I have still hunted and still have an opinion on the management. Just because I don’t always get my own way doesn’t mean I don’t still play the game. I’m ok being me .

 

[elkantlers]

So you are telling me that Heaton has zero friends in the guide world?

Is that what we are to believe?

Ever meet Byron Bateman?

Main picture, Back center.

Home | Color Country Outfitters

Welcome to Color Country Outfitters! For over 25 years, Color Country Outfitters has specialized in the highest quality mule deer hunting. Based in Alton, U ...

colorcountryoutfitters.com

 

[hossblur]

Main picture, Back center.

Home | Color Country Outfitters

Welcome to Color Country Outfitters! For over 25 years, Color Country Outfitters has specialized in the highest quality mule deer hunting. Based in Alton, U ...

colorcountryoutfitters.com

??

 

[hossblur]

Lol, yes hoss. I have still hunted and still have an opinion on the management. Just because I don’t always get my own way doesn’t mean I don’t still play the game. I’m ok being me .

I'm great with you being you. Just good to know the YOU is an opportunist railing against other opportunists.

You taking advantage of management decisions (DH, mentoring), while you rail on management.


YOU, are me and Vanilla. EXACTLY like us.

Despite the years you tried hiding it.

Welcome to the opportunist brotherhood.

Enjoy your time hunting units you think are horribly mismanaged, with too many tags

 

[elkassassin]

So hossy?

Do You Remember The HYPOCRITE Thread From Yesteryear?

It Was Decided We Are All HYPOCRITES!

Now You've Decided We Are All OPPORTUNISTS?

 

[hossblur]

Seems like the same guys in both, huh?


What would you call a guy in the dh that hunts every year, piles up deer points?

 

[elkassassin]

I'd Call That A hossy!

Seems like the same guys in both, huh?


What would you call a guy in the dh that hunts every year, piles up deer points?

 

[Vanilla]

YOU, are me and Vanilla. EXACTLY like us.

Not quite exactly. You and I are honest.

 

[Muley_73]

Not quite exactly. You and I are honest.

Hoss,
I never said I’m not an opportunist. Literally every single hunter is when hunt. I just view conservation of the resource being ahead of opportunity at times.

Vanilla,
You keep touting honesty…yet you don’t even know reality or history a lot of the time. You think you do but you really don’t. So does your ignorance pass as honesty? Not only that but you really don’t know me at all. You know internet banter…that’s it.

 

[elkhunter81]

Happy Friday yall

 

[hossblur]

Hoss,
I never said I’m not an opportunist. Literally every single hunter is when hunt. I just view conservation of the resource being ahead of opportunity at times.

Vanilla,
You keep touting honesty…yet you don’t even know reality or history a lot of the time. You think you do but you really don’t. So does your ignorance pass as honesty? Not only that but you really don’t know me at all. You know internet banter…that’s it.

Ummmmm. You've always tried to be very clever about not admitting what you told @berrysblaster. In fact even in this thread you tried to make it seem like you just bought points.

Probably because you knew that putting out that not only do you hunt Utah, you DH Utah, and mentor Utah, that your "criticisms" wouldnt pack much weight.

Call that whatever you want. You've known for years I'm one of the evil opportunists, because I didn't try hiding it. You have. Hard to have honest debates with someone who tried so hard not to be.

It's the same with you on most subjects. Historical deer populations, deer management, $fw, now this. Always ambiguity. Always mystery.

 

[Muley_73]

Hoss,
I honestly think you assume a lot and let that run wild in your head. I do think you and Vanilla are both a lot alike in that manner. Again you only know what you think you know based on interweb banter. It’s really too easy too talk circles on purpose and spin you up.

Honesty question…do you really think anything on MM makes any difference one way or the other. When I’m serious about changes my convos and efforts don’t happen on here.

My hunting calendar and my fams is loaded up again this fall and it will be again next year and the year after that.

I don’t agree with the management that puts opportunity over healthy herds. I think the DWR is lazy and close minded in options that can address both .

And most of all I really don’t care if any of that stuff doesn’t align with you or vanilla or leaves a sour taste in Berrys mouth. Sorry guys

 

[Vanilla]

Oh muley73, I’m sorry sweetheart that you’re hurt by me identifying your dishonesty. I guess you don’t like people making judgments about you based upon your online comments? Weird… I hear there are safe rooms around for you to express those feelings.

But back to reality, if you don’t want to be called dishonest, don’t be dishonest. It’s really rather simple! We’ve “interacted” on many issues over the years. You have rarely engaged in honest dialogue or debate. I would say “never” instead of “rarely,” but I’m leaving out the possibility you did it once and I either missed it or forgot about it. You used to claim the same “you don’t REALLY know what’s going on” with me over a decade ago on the stream access stuff. It’s just your MO, and it’s fine because everyone sees through it quickly. I’ve tried to give you dozens of opportunities to share your thoughts on various topics, mule deer management being only one of them. Even with all that, I’d welcome open dialogue. Heck, maybe I’d even learn something if you’d actually be honest for once. You and ole Whoopi are cut from the cloth.

All hat, no cattle.

 

[Muley_73]

Oh muley73, I’m sorry sweetheart that you’re hurt by me identifying your dishonesty. I guess you don’t like people making judgments about you based upon your online comments? Weird… I hear there are safe rooms around for you to express those feelings.

But back to reality, if you don’t want to be called dishonest, don’t be dishonest. It’s really rather simple! We’ve “interacted” on many issues over the years. You have rarely engaged in honest dialogue or debate. I would say “never” instead of “rarely,” but I’m leaving out the possibility you did it once and I either missed it or forgot about it. You used to claim the same “you don’t REALLY know what’s going on” with me over a decade ago on the stream access stuff. It’s just your MO, and it’s fine because everyone sees through it quickly. I’ve tried to give you dozens of opportunities to share your thoughts on various topics, mule deer management being only one of them. Even with all that, I’d welcome open dialogue. Heck, maybe I’d even learn something if you’d actually be honest for once. You and ole Whoopi are cut from the cloth.

All hat, no cattle.

Vanilla,
My feels have never been hurt. Again you’re taking the position that you think I put any value in your opinion. Just like you always say explain…I have…to you personally…no….that because I didn’t care what you thought.

 

[JB1975]

Is this thread getting anywhere?

 

[Muley_73]

Is this thread getting anywhere?

Maybe more tag cuts…..

 

[Vanilla]

Is this thread getting anywhere?

It got way more than I ever intended it to, that’s for sure. Certainly not what I thought, but you take what you get on the interwebs.

 

[Vanilla]

Vanilla,
My feels have never been hurt. Again you’re taking the position that you think I put any value in your opinion. Just like you always say explain…I have…to you personally…no….that because I didn’t care what you thought.

Translation- all hat no cattle.

I’m not particularly that fond of you either, but I’m at least willing to be honest. Not everyone has integrity though. It’s the way of the world!

 

[hossblur]

Hoss,
I honestly think you assume a lot and let that run wild in your head. I do think you and Vanilla are both a lot alike in that manner. Again you only know what you think you know based on interweb banter. It’s really too easy too talk circles on purpose and spin you up.

Honesty question…do you really think anything on MM makes any difference one way or the other. When I’m serious about changes my convos and efforts don’t happen on here.

My hunting calendar and my fams is loaded up again this fall and it will be again next year and the year after that.

I don’t agree with the management that puts opportunity over healthy herds. I think the DWR is lazy and close minded in options that can address both .

And most of all I really don’t care if any of that stuff doesn’t align with you or vanilla or leaves a sour taste in Berrys mouth. Sorry guys

Yeah. I think folks ACTUALLY pay attention to MM that are both in the legislature, and the division, and in both MDF(obviously), and $fw.

I know, because I actually know some of them personally, and, I reach out to others. You'd be surprised how much they pay attention.

Ask Heaton and Doyle how much they appreciated the bait ban that gait rolling out of this forum. I asked Heaton, got 7 emails back. He wasn't "thrilled".

Ask WLH how much he loves aTri from this forum.

As to assuming? Feel free to point anyone to where you told anyone anything honest until @berryblaster called you out. Your free to be a persona, but now we all know that's what you are, a troll, and those that monitor, know to not take you seriously.

Too bad, because the other member of your family that is in here, does, and is a good read because of it.

Good luck with all your opportunities.