Tagging up for points.

DWBMontana

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I see a thread under a sub forum asking to tag up for points, and I did not want to hijack the thread. I am just wondering if this has been successful for those that have done it? What does the person seeking someone with higher points usually bring to the table? Is this legal everywhere? Thanks.
 
Averaging points was originally designed to enable family and friends to apply and draw tags together. I really think it's a sad day if the system is being somewhat abused by those selling or bartering pts. When $ or goods are exchanged I think it's crossing a fine line by abusing the system.

With that said, I have shared amazing hunts with other hunters across the country for quite a few years. Several of the guys I've hunted with have become life-time friends.

I grew up in Wyoming and have years of experience scouting and hunting antelope, muledeer, and elk in Wyoming. I keep tight tabs on winterkill, drought, hunting pressure, tag numbers, etc that affect trophy quality available in any given year. Having the ability to field judge and determine if a buck has 6 4/8 vs 7" bases or 4 1/2 vs 5" prongs can make or break a bucks score. Having local knowledge of the country, quality of bucks and bulls, etc is worth it's weight in gold. Many of the hunters I've shared hunts with had no idea on how, when, and where to hunt big game....or field judge animals. I understand completely that many of them have a lot of time and money invested in waiting for a quality hunt and I've done my best over the years to make their hunt enjoyable and harvesting the best quality animals possible

There are always bad apples in any crowd that take advantage of others. It's always worth doing a little investigation work to weed those types out.
 
lol....so it's ok for you to buy granny's license and tag and using her points......that she never even knew about, but not ok for anyone with other circumstances to share points??....
 
I see a thread under a sub forum asking to tag up for points, and I did not want to hijack the thread. I am just wondering if this has been successful for those that have done it? What does the person seeking someone with higher points usually bring to the table? Is this legal everywhere? Thanks.
What I bring to the table when I share points in Wyoming is a hunting partner who puts in weeks of scouting, has many, many years of experience in the area, know very well how to do backcountry hunting and usually have horses to bring along.
Hunting the backcountry is not easy, nor is scouting the backcountry when you live 20 hours away.
I like to think that I take someone on an adventure that they otherwise may have never gone on. Plus, they’re usually hunting an area that holds bigger bucks than they typically ever get to hunt. And, I know a little something about hunting big bucks, so I can throw a little helpful advice to them during the hunt.
I see it as a big win/win deal. The caliber of bucks that are in the spot we’re hunting are very difficult to find even in the very best units in the state. Where we hunt is usually more rugged and tougher than a highly limited, quality road hunting unit, but the caliber of buck(s) within a mile of our camp are as good, if not much better, than most would find in even the best of Wyoming units.
There are a lot of dudes lined up to throw $10k to hunt with the best outfitter up there. If they’re one of the outfitters lucky few, they’ll be hunting a spot as good as what my hunting buddy and I are hunting.
 
Founder, I agree 100% with your post! There’s nothing better than sharing an exciting hunt with others that have the same hunting passion that may be somewhat lost without a little help. It’s tough to beat local knowledge and experience with a personal touch!
 
I shared some of my points a few years back. I did not need them all as I had enough for my unit and only had the extra from several busy hunting elsewhere years. I gave them to a stranger with no expectation of anything. He sent me a great letter with his story and pictures. I was happy that someone benefited from what I did not need. I recognize there is some abuse but that shouldn’t ruin it for everyone else. Some people will always game the system.
 
Averaging points was originally designed to enable family and friends to apply and draw tags together. I really think it's a sad day if the system is being somewhat abused by those selling or bartering pts. When $ or goods are exchanged I think it's crossing a fine line by abusing the system.

...

There are always bad apples in any crowd that take advantage of others. It's always worth doing a little investigation work to weed those types out.

Just so I have this straight,
it's OK for you to "barter" your knowledge of a fee hunt Antelope ranch, in exchange for someone with multiple points to join your party app, but it's not OK for the guy that wants $50 to cover his points...

I don't care if you charge or not, but to say there some difference between what you do and the guy that want's $50 is a stretch.
 
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I’m pretty sure big $ and expensive goods are likely exchanged for pts compared to me just sharing a hunt and having a great time with other hunters in country and critters that I know well.
 
And Colorado doesn’t average points.

I have no problem with it as long as the person with lots of points loses them and can’t turn their tag back in and get their points restored while the other person still gets to hunt. That happened in Utah for awhile until they closed that loophole.
 
In Wyoming it doesn't matter because they don't allow tags to be turned back in. Last year was an exception with Covid going on.
 
And Colorado doesn’t average points.

I have no problem with it as long as the person with lots of points loses them and can’t turn their tag back in and get their points restored while the other person still gets to hunt. That happened in Utah for awhile until they closed that loophole.
it happened in NV till this year....
 
If you share points with someone, I don’t thinks it’s unreasonable for them to reimburse you for what you are in to purchasing those points until that point. It’s also not illegal, so people shouldn’t lose sleep over that. If they do, well there’s probably better things to worry about instead
 
And Colorado doesn’t average points.

I have no problem with it as long as the person with lots of points loses them and can’t turn their tag back in and get their points restored while the other person still gets to hunt. That happened in Utah for awhile until they closed that loophole.
it was happening in Nevada every year I am not sure if they have closed that loophole yet
 
We're forced to buy points in a giant bend you over ponzi scheme.

Not only should a person be able share them on group apps, he/she should be able to sell them outright.


I wish I was best friends with a bad ass lawyer, and had cash to burn.
 
Founder, I agree 100% with your post! There’s nothing better than sharing an exciting hunt with others that have the same hunting passion that may be somewhat lost without a little help. It’s tough to beat local knowledge and experience with a personal touch!
Nothing wrong with people profiting from their points either...and no law against it.

People with points, that share them, simply need to realize the true value of those points and charge accordingly.

Its a sellers market to control and they should maximize profits. No way is your ability to score a pronghorn worth the same as someone's points. They're worth way more than that...like you covering their trespass fee or tags or perhaps both with a bit more for gas money getting there. They have something you want...not the other way around.

No reason for a person to do anything but maximize their profits from a commodity they own that someone else wants...
 
There are quite a few trophy antelope hunters that believe it's well worth burning high pref pts on a unit PLUS hiring a knowledgeable guide to hunt. Take a look at what the Grimmetts charge to hunt Wyoming antelope....$4,900 PLUS their hunters often burn close to max pts! The price of Grimmett's hunt gives you a feel for the value of hiring someone that has in depth knowledge of trophy antelope units, field judging, and ability to harvest trophy bucks.

Local knowledge, trophy judging ability, and scouting is well worth every pref pt to those I've shared hunts with. This year is a great example where I went on 2 scouting trips plus 2 additional trips to set up waterhole blinds prior to the season. God knows I burned several tanks of gas and a lot of time in the pre-season. This was the 44th year I've hunted Wyoming antelope. Is that worth anything to the guys that I shared pref pts with this year that lived over 1,000 miles away? Their ear to ear smiles at the end of their hunt told the story!

The guys I've shared hunts with over the years are definitely getting their time and money's worth. Say nothing for the new friendships and incredible experience we've shared! I understand completely the value of pref pts so do everything in my power to make it well worth every pref pt they have collected over the years. I'm sure Founder would say the same thing about the hunters he's shared muley hunts with. There are always a few bad apples out there so definitely keep that in mind!

Here's a few options to consider.....I'll use this as an example: Suppose you are a nonres that lives in the Midwest or East Coast and have never set foot in antelope country and has accumulated 10 pref pts. Here are several options I can think of:

Go guided and pay an outfitter $3,000 to $4,900 plus burn your 10 pts.

Sell your hard earned 10 pref pts for cash,,,,which may or may not be legal? There are a lot of unknowns with this option!!!! You are still averaging pts with someone and may or may not be sharing a hunt with someone with local knowledge depending upon what you agree upon.

Possibly go self-guided and hope that with your research and hunting skills that you will harvest the buck of your dreams? This is a great option for many depending upon the amount of time you can invest, ability to field judge bucks, and knowledge/research of details such as previous year's local winterkill, drought impacts, etc.

Possibly share your points with someone with local intimate knowledge of antelope units and available bucks, knows how to field judge bucks, and is familiar with winterkill, drought and other factors when choosing which unit to hunt in any given year?

Everyone is a little different but I know what I would do! What's nice about the Wyo pref pt system is everyone is free to use their pref pts as they desire.
 
There are quite a few trophy antelope hunters that believe it's well worth burning high pref pts on a unit PLUS hiring a knowledgeable guide to hunt. Take a look at what the Grimmetts charge to hunt Wyoming antelope....$4,900 PLUS their hunters often burn close to max pts! The price of Grimmett's hunt gives you a feel for the value of hiring someone that has in depth knowledge of trophy antelope units, field judging, and ability to harvest trophy bucks.

Local knowledge, trophy judging ability, and scouting is well worth every pref pt to those I've shared hunts with. This year is a great example where I went on 2 scouting trips plus 2 additional trips to set up waterhole blinds prior to the season. God knows I burned several tanks of gas and a lot of time in the pre-season. This was the 44th year I've hunted Wyoming antelope. Is that worth anything to the guys that I shared pref pts with this year that lived over 1,000 miles away? Their ear to ear smiles at the end of their hunt told the story!

The guys I've shared hunts with over the years are definitely getting their time and money's worth. Say nothing for the new friendships and incredible experience we've shared! I understand completely the value of pref pts so do everything in my power to make it well worth every pref pt they have collected over the years. I'm sure Founder would say the same thing about the hunters he's shared muley hunts with. There are always a few bad apples out there so definitely keep that in mind!

Here's a few options to consider.....I'll use this as an example: Suppose you are a nonres that lives in the Midwest or East Coast and have never set foot in antelope country and has accumulated 10 pref pts. Here are several options I can think of:

Go guided and pay an outfitter $3,000 to $4,900 plus burn your 10 pts.

Sell your hard earned 10 pref pts for cash,,,,which may or may not be legal? There are a lot of unknowns with this option!!!! You are still averaging pts with someone and may or may not be sharing a hunt with someone with local knowledge depending upon what you agree upon.

Possibly go self-guided and hope that with your research and hunting skills that you will harvest the buck of your dreams? This is a great option for many depending upon the amount of time you can invest, ability to field judge bucks, and knowledge/research of details such as previous year's local winterkill, drought impacts, etc.

Possibly share your points with someone with local intimate knowledge of antelope units and available bucks, knows how to field judge bucks, and is familiar with winterkill, drought and other factors when choosing which unit to hunt in any given year?

Everyone is a little different but I know what I would do! What's nice about the Wyo pref pt system is everyone is free to use their pref pts as they desire.

Anyone can watch a video on how to judge pronghorn for themselves. Look at enough pictures, look at the record books to identify the counties that produce the best bucks.

Anyone can call a biologist and ask them how the winter was, past winters, fawn recruitment, buck to doe ratio's. Not hard, one free phone call and you're good to go.

You're making it sound tougher than it is, or that you're the only person to get the information from.

You aren't, and people can get it for nothing without sharing their points with you.

Further, someone could charge for their points and use that money for scouting trips, paying for tags, groceries, stays at hotels, better optics, or even to help off-set the cost of their guided hunt if they want.

Again, no reason to not maximize the value of their points. I wouldnt give them away for the things you find valuable, when a few phone calls, a look through the record books, and a couple scoring video's could provide all that.

I'd average my points with you jims, but you'd pay what they're worth or I'd find a new "friend" that would.

NR points are worth way more than you're offering.
 
The guys that hire Grimmetts to have a great opportunity to harvest B&C bucks sure believe it’s worth paying $4,900 Plus burning high pref pts to have guidance drawing tags in units with B&C potential and sure believe it’s worth it just as those that have harvested 77 to 85+ B&C bucks by merely sharing points and a hunt with me!

You can ask anyone and they’ll tell you that antelope are one of the toughest critters in North America to field judge. When a buck with 6 1/2” bases is ok and another with 7” bases is a monster how many hunters can distinguish that at 700 yards? How many new hunters know how to distinguish between 2 and 2 4/8...4th quarter measurements even at close range? Taking a look at photos and videos may help but antelope bucks start looking pretty similar in the field.

Hunters are welcome to get the same advice from biologists that biologists have told to 100 other hunters! Same is true for those that take advice from Eastmans and other hunting services! How many thousands of hunters read the same Eastmans recommendations. There is a reason Grimmett consistently harvests B&C bucks for their clients.

If a hunter has invested years and $ accumulating pts wouldn’t it be smart for them to optimize their chance of harvesting a B&C buck? Especially those that haven’t ever even seen an antelope.

How do you think hunters in 57 did last year? Just because historically it produces B&C bucks doesn’t mean it will in any particular year. How about in 2021? I spent several weeks in that country last winter and knew what was coming.

I also spent over 30 days scouting 12 different prime antelope units last summer and fall. Do you think I have an idea what bucks made it through this hunting season, which units are recovering from winterkill, which units had virtually 0 water towards the end of last summer, which units had twin fawns and others that had 0 fawns...and which units potentially had the best bucks and horn growth? Many of the historic B&C counties would not be my top choice in 2021 if I had high pref pts! How many hunters can figure all that out in any given year? Believe me it can change dramatically from one year to the next!

As I mentioned in my other post guided hunts and point sharing with someone with local knowledgeable isn’t for everyone but it sure pulls the odds of getting a whopper buck in someone’s favor!
 
To me it it the difference between a licensed guide, and someone finding a way to get around the law. If points are seen as compensation, and have value, then it is an enterprise that is collecting barter (aka "In Kind") revenue. The IRS treats barter revenue the same as cash, and sooner or later I believe that states will view it the same way.
 
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Sharing a hunt with others with the same love for the outdoors is a far cry from finding a way around the law! I love scouting and hunting trophy antelope in Wyoming and love sharing that experience with others!

Now that you bring bartering up, what exactly is selling preference points like Buzz recommends and says is totally legal? I would say selling preference points is pretty close to bartering? There is an exact price that the preference points are sold for!
 
As a believer in the free market, I want to approve of this, however, when a government bureaucracy implements a system where government offers advantages to some for money, this I question. It seems like a way for govt. agencies to pad their budgets.
 

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