Thanks to Utah's Wildlife Leadership

[slamdunk]

Well Jake!

You & Every Other MM'ER On Here Has Heard Me Say It Many Times!

We Need To Start Managing For Numbers Of Deer!

And PISS ON THE BUCK TO DOE BS RATIO MANAGEMENT!

WE NEED MORE DEER!

MORE BREEDING STOCK!

CAN ANYBODY F'N HEAR ME?

I GUESS NOT?

As I've Said Many a Times Jake!

I Surely Don't Have All The Answers!

But We Damn Sure Need To Quit Doing STUPID SHHITT!

To Keep Reducing/Destroying what's Left Of The Henries Herd Will Only End In Another CLOSURE!

Do Any Of Us Wanna See That?

I'll Never Hunt The Unit!

And The Answer is NO,We Don't wanna see That!

For The BILLIONTH F'N Time!

Until Hunters/Sportsmen/DWR Accepts The 50+ Reasons Why Nothing Good Will Ever Happen!

I've Offered To Place Money Wagers With Several MM'ERS on What's Gonna Happen In The Future & Not One Damn Sole wants To Place A Bet!

It's Getting Real Close To Being FUBAR again!

Correct me if I am wrong, but are we killing does off the Henry's?
I am not aware of any doe tags there.

If we're not removing does, and the herd numbers aren't increasing, then you still have a "Deer" issue, not a "Buck" issue.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey hawky & Niller!

2 Coyotes Down This Morning!

No!

It Won't Help Much!

But Them Two Bastards Will Never Kill Another Deer!

What'd You Two Do For Wildlife Today?

EEYORE-

I am headed out the door to meetings, and will be out of pocket for the next several hours, but I did not want you to think I was ignoring you.

I don’t mind the DWR cutting some tags if it’s called for under the management plan and herd numbers are decreasing. But I certainly do not believe that cutting a few buck tags on the Henry Mountains unit is going to grow the herd. Bucks don’t give birth. And as I said many times before, hunters are not the limiting factor for our deer herds.

I have already explained my position on this issue several times. In an effort to refresh your recollection, I’m going to re-post what I posted on the other MDF thread:

If you go back and read my posts over the years, I have been consistent in stating that the problems facing mule deer are complex and multifaceted, and include predators, loss of habitat, degradation of habitat, drought, difficult winters, increased auto mortality, increased competition with elk, disease, increased human pressure, improved hunting technology, poor management, political changes, etc. I do not think we will ever return to mule deer numbers of the 50s through 80s. Why? Because it is impossible to turn back the clock and return to the conditions that existed back then.

Does that mean we should throw our hands up in the air and do nothing? No. I appreciate each decision, change in law, habitat project, change in management, etc., that helps our struggling herds. If you open your eyes and look around, you will realize that every western state is facing the same issues. For years Colorado was the envy of every western state when it came to mule deer but their deer herds are currently struggling both in quantity and quality just like Utah. No western state has solved this problem.

I’m no expert and frankly I hope I’m wrong but I predict things will not get significantly better during my lifetime. We will see short periods of improvement and increased numbers but then a difficult winter or other event will come along that will set us back significantly. I’m do not expect to see us ever return to the glory days of mule deer hunting. So get out and enjoy what we have now. Go hunting and make memories. If you care so much about our herds, get involved and make difference. Let your voice be heard. As bad as things are right now, they may be worse in the future, particularly when it comes to drawing tags and having the opportunity to hunt. 20 years from now, you may wait decades to draw a OIL tag to chase a “Basin Pisscutter.” ? Hunting will likely be an elite rich man’s sport that primarily takes place on fenced private preserves. It makes me sick but we are already headed that direction.

Hawkeye

 

[elkassassin]

Where Did You See Me Say We Were Shooting Does On The Henries?

I SAID:

We Need To Start Managing & Doing Things To Improve Herd Numbers,Didn't I?

Correct me if I am wrong, but are we killing does off the Henry's?
I am not aware of any doe tags there.

If we're not removing does, and the herd numbers aren't increasing, then you still have a "Deer" issue, not a "Buck" issue.

 

[elkassassin]

And................!

When I Mentioned Cutting a Few Buck Tags,Before Jake Posted The Numbers,The DWR Has Already been cutting a Few Tags That I Didn't Know About!

I Never Said There Wasn't Enough Bucks for The Amount Of Does!

Cutting a Few Buck Tags would be In Hopes We Could Raise The Age Class a Little So Hunters That Have Waited 1/3 of a Lifetime To Pull A Tag Might Have an Opportunity at a Trophy Class Buck!

You All Admit The Cream of The Crop Has Been Being Taken Year After Year Even Though That Size Has Been Getting Smaller for Several Years Now!

Maybe The MM Biologists Can Just Magically Fix It!

 

[Vanilla]

Correct me if I am wrong, but are we killing does off the Henry's?
I am not aware of any doe tags there.

If we're not removing does, and the herd numbers aren't increasing, then you still have a "Deer" issue, not a "Buck" issue.

Stop confusing him with facts, Slam. Bessy still believes in his heart that we over-hunted the Henry’s and that’s why the herd has suffered recently. But I think there is some faint flicker in that light bulb in his head that is starting to figure out just how dumb that cry has been all these years.

Standby…he’s going to get his chance!

 

[slamdunk]

Good hell this has to be the single most hypocritical post ever recorded on MM…and that’s saying something! From the king of beating around the bush and not answering questions!

Yes, it’s stupid to cut tags on the Henry’s under current conditions. This is what happens when folks prioritize inches and dollar signs over biology. You keep talking about selling bucks for buck$ and don’t realize how dumb that statement truly is Bess! Who is selling the Henry Mountains bucks? General deer hunters and the DWR or your boys at SFW you keep supporting that are running our herd into the ground?

There are two conservation tags for the Henry's, that's not contributing to the deer decline.

Two dead bucks are two dead bucks whether they're drawn or purchased.

The six figures that comes out of those two tags pays for collaring studies, transplants, arial coyote removal and private, contracted mountain lion removals off that unit.

Those benefits far outweigh the few hundred $10 application fees from public draws.

Sorry to be harsh, but you asked for it!

Cutting buck tags when buck:doe is 60+:100 on an isolated unit like the Henry’s is asinine and people pushing for that should be jailed. Just wait for HELL RIGHT 2 I’ve got cooking up!

 

[slamdunk]

Stop co fusing him with facts, Slam. Bessy still believes in his heart that we over-hunted the Henry’s and that’s why the herd has suffered recently. But I think there is some faint flicker in that light bulb in his head that is starting to figure out just how dumb that cry has been all these years.

Standby…he’s going to get his chance!

I love all you guys, I'd absolutely love sitting around a big bonfire with a cooler full of beers (and Mountain Dew) and discuss all this in real time.
Some of us might need to be cuffed and shackled, but it'd sure be a good time!!?

 

[slamdunk]

Where Did You See Me Say We Were Shooting Does On The Henries?

I SAID:

We Need To Start Managing & Doing Things To Improve Herd Numbers,Didn't I?

Lol.....I didn't say that you said that, I was just asking a question if we were harvesting does off that unit that I wasn't aware of....don't chew me out old friend ?

My point there is if we are limiting buck tags, not offering doe tags, slaying lions and coyotes through private contracts, GPS tracking collared deer for study movements, then I would feel confident in saying they are doing everything within reason and humanly possible to "grow" overall numbers of deer.
The rest is up to mother nature.

 

[2lumpy]

Lol.....I didn't say that you said that, I was just asking a question if we were harvesting does off that unit that I wasn't aware of....don't chew me out old friend ?

My point there is if we are limiting buck tags, not offering doe tags, slaying lions and coyotes through private contracts, GPS tracking collared deer for study movements, then I would feel confident in saying they are doing everything within reason and humanly possible to "grow" overall numbers of deer.
The rest is up to mother nature.

That’s “the” problem SD…… excuse me while I raise my frustrated voice, IT IS NOT A REGULATION THAT “THEY” LEAVE IT UP TO MOTHER NATURE. “THEY” CAN NEUTRALIZE MN, LIKE LIVE STOCK OPERATORS DO, “THEY” DELIBERATELY CHOOSE NOT TO.

So…… it costs too much and it takes tremendous human effort, to which I say, “do you want to keep the mule deer viable and abundant enough to support wide spread sport hunting or don’t you”. If you’re not willing to pay the cost, and put forth the necessary effort, you are saying, “No, I’m not willing to”. I say, then learn to play golf, and shut the hell up, so those of us who are willing can pay up and get to work.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey PUNK!

Not Chewing You Out!

Just Setting The Record Straight on the Doe Thing!

I'm Just A Little Frustrated For The Guys & Gals Waiting 25-30 Years To Hunt The Unit knowing what Kinda Bucks that Have Been Comming off the Unit in Recent Years!

We've Seen It Way Better!

And Yes I've Seen It Worse/CLOSED!

Lol.....I didn't say that you said that, I was just asking a question if we were harvesting does off that unit that I wasn't aware of....don't chew me out old friend ?

My point there is if we are limiting buck tags, not offering doe tags, slaying lions and coyotes through private contracts, GPS tracking collared deer for study movements, then I would feel confident in saying they are doing everything within reason and humanly possible to "grow" overall numbers of deer.
The rest is up to mother nature.

 

[slamdunk]

Hey PUNK!

Not Chewing You Out!

Just Setting The Record Straight on the Doe Thing!

I'm Just A Little Frustrated For The Guys & Gals Waiting 25-30 Years To Hunt The Unit knowing what Kinda Bucks that Have Been Comming off the Unit in Recent Years!

We've Seen It Way Better!

And Yes I've Seen It Worse/CLOSED!

You and I both saw what happened to both the Henry's and the Book Cliffs when they opened them up to open season unlimited slaughters.
It was so bad they shut them both down after two or three blood bath seasons.

Having said that, the Henry's are facing a bigger beast today that isn't caused by over harvest.

 

[elkassassin]

Not Gonna Argue That PUNK!

But To Take The CREAM Of The Crop Now For Years Is Really Showing!

Yes There Is Many,Many Other Issues!

You and I both saw what happened to both the Henry's and the Book Cliffs when the opened them up to open season unlimited slaughters.
It was so bad they shut them both down after two or three blood bath seasons.

Having said that, the Henry's are facing a bigger beast that isn't caused by over harvest.

 

[elkantlers]

Isn't taking the cream of the crop exactly what you want on a LE unit? Then the next year you do the same leaving the up and comers to grow each year.

 

[JakeH]

Well Jake!

You & Every Other MM'ER On Here Has Heard Me Say It Many Times!

We Need To Start Managing For Numbers Of Deer!

And PISS ON THE BUCK TO DOE BS RATIO MANAGEMENT!

WE NEED MORE DEER!

MORE BREEDING STOCK!

CAN ANYBODY F'N HEAR ME?

I GUESS NOT?

As I've Said Many a Times Jake!

I Surely Don't Have All The Answers!

But We Damn Sure Need To Quit Doing STUPID SHHITT!

To Keep Reducing/Destroying what's Left Of The Henries Herd Will Only End In Another CLOSURE!

Do Any Of Us Wanna See That?

I'll Never Hunt The Unit!

And The Answer is NO,We Don't wanna see That!

For The BILLIONTH F'N Time!

Until Hunters/Sportsmen/DWR Accepts The 50+ Reasons Why Nothing Good Will Ever Happen!

I've Offered To Place Money Wagers With Several MM'ERS on What's Gonna Happen In The Future & Not One Damn Sole wants To Place A Bet!

It's Getting Real Close To Being FUBAR again!

Yes bess buck to doe ratio be damned, but you still didn't answer my question.

What would you have done differently the last 10 years to keep the herd from crashing? I'm even giving you the benefit of foresight that the DWR did not have.

After you tell us that tell us what needs to be done for the next 10 years.

Don't come at us with a catch all "hell right" answer be specific. And I am only talking about the Henerys don't lump other parts of the state into your answer because each unit has its own set of issues, I figured we can start with the easiest one first since cutting tags is clearly not the issue, but is the most blamed cause for blame. Not just by you, I see that comment at nauseum online as well

 

[2lumpy]

Isn't taking the cream of the crop exactly what you want on a LE unit? Then the next year you do the same leaving the up and comers to grow each year.

Sure……. But it’s a problem when the herd environment and management environment can’t keep up with the depth of cream you are taking off.

In other words, if the herd can stay “flat, with the harvest, you’re good.” Clearly, for one reason or another the amount of cream that’s being removed can’t hold up with what the cow’s producing. Gone from 1200, to 2,400, back to 900 animals in ten years, give or take. Buck population is dependent on herd population.

Something has to change cause if you just throw your hands in the air your dairy is going out of business.

 

[Vanilla]

Now we believe the DWR population estimates?!?!? ?

 

[slamdunk]

Isn't taking the cream of the crop exactly what you want on a LE unit? Then the next year you do the same leaving the up and comers to grow each year.

Yes, in a sense.

However, the Henry's opened back up as an LE after a handful of closed years and there were 200+" bucks all over those three mountains.

It spurred and threw gasoline on the Outfitter fire and caused a massive unlimited cost to kill monster bucks.

Over the years the Outfitters and public hunters became so efficient at finding and killing those best bucks that they became fewer and fewer leaving nothing but 170-180 bucks as the top end.

As Jake's research data shows the deer decline over the years, so did recruitment.

The Henry's are fairly easy to hunt and spot deer on because of the multitude of steep open areas to see, access and kill them.

So as we continue to skim, and overall numbers decline, we cannot grow giant trophy buck on that unit like it used to.

Shutting it down or cutting tags won't make the herd numbers increase, it'll only allow some bucks to reach full potential and start the same cycle all over again.

Growing Does is the key to more available future bucks.

 

[elkassassin]

Read Nillers New Thread JakeH!

I Can't Fix It!

But I Surely Wouldn't Keep Running It Towards Another Closure!

Yes bess buck to doe ratio be damned, but you still didn't answer my question.

What would you have done differently the last 10 years to keep the herd from crashing? I'm even giving you the benefit of foresight that the DWR did not have.

After you tell us that tell us what needs to be done for the next 10 years.

Don't come at us with a catch all "hell right" answer be specific. And I am only talking about the Henerys don't lump other parts of the state into your answer because each unit has its own set of issues, I figured we can start with the easiest one first since cutting tags is clearly not the issue, but is the most blamed cause for blame. Not just by you, I see that comment at nauseum online as well

 

[slamdunk]

Read Nillers New Thread JakeH!

I Can't Fix It!

But I Surely Wouldn't Keep Running It Towards Another Closure!

Honestly I don't think they would ever close it again simply for the fact that we are not in there removing does.

Tackling the decline in doe numbers is or should be the focus.

And unfortunately, maintaining a healthy buck to doe ratio requires additional bucks to be removed by harvest to keep up with the natural decline of the does.

If that unit drops so low with doe numbers to say 500, we can't keep the same number of bucks unfortunately.

 

[elkassassin]

So?

Are Guys With 25 to MAX Points Gonna Waste A 1/3 of a Lifetime to Hunt A Herd That's been Whittled Down To Nothing?

I Suppose as Long As People Like Niller Have A Chance at a 120" PISSCUTTER They Will Indeed!

Honestly I don't think they would ever close it again simply for the fact that we are not in there removing does.

Tackling the decline in doe numbers is or should be the focus.

And unfortunately, maintaining a healthy buck to doe ratio requires additional bucks to be removed by harvest to keep up with the natural decline of the does.

If that unit drops so low with doe numbers to say 500, we can't keep the same number of bucks unfortunately.

 

[elkantlers]

So?

Are Guys With 25 to MAX Points Gonna Waste A 1/3 of a Lifetime to Hunt A Herd That's been Whittled Down To Nothing?

I Suppose as Long As People Like Niller Have A Chance at a 120" PISSCUTTER They Will Indeed!

My guess is that the Henry's will never have leftover tags available.

 

[2lumpy]

I’m d
i
z
z
y
.
.
.
……………

 

[elkassassin]

You're Right!

But If It Keeps Going In The Same Direction The PISSCUTTIN Will Still Be GREAT!

My guess is that the Henry's will never have leftover tags available.

 

[slamdunk]

So?

Are Guys With 25 to MAX Points Gonna Waste A 1/3 of a Lifetime to Hunt A Herd That's been Whittled Down To Nothing?

I Suppose as Long As People Like Niller Have A Chance at a 120" PISSCUTTER They Will Indeed!

They'll have to, unfortunately.

Not much different than me always wanting my own 400" bull and we're not living in 2005 anymore when they were readily available.

It's really kinda sad that those earlier years of hunting has negatively set the new standard on what a "successful hunt" should be.
If we don't bring home a 200 or 400, our hunt was a total waste of years waiting for it.

 

[elkassassin]

True!

But When They're Down To General Hunt Type Quality That Hurts!

They'll have to, unfortunately.

Not much different than me always wanting my own 400" bull and we're not living in 2005 anymore when they were readily available.

It's really kinda sad that those earlier years of hunting has negatively set the new standard on what a "successful hunt" should be.
If we don't bring home a 200 or 400, our hunt was a total waste of years waiting for it.

 

[slamdunk]

True!

But When They're Down To General Hunt Type Quality That Hurts!

Yes Sir, times have definitely changed.

It was pretty sad down on the Henry's two hunts ago and my friends wife had been waiting decades for her chance at a "Famous Henry Mountain Monster.

Even my Mossback connections told me if we find a 180" we better kill it.

We failed to find one even close to that, and had to make a decision to eat a 20 year tag or take at least a mature buck regardless of score.

She chose the latter for obvious reasons.

 

[elkassassin]

Exactly What I've Been Sayin PUNK!

And It's Gonna Get Worse Before It Gets Better!

Yes Sir, times have definitely changed.

It was pretty sad down on the Henry's two hunts ago and my friends wife had been waiting decades for her chance at a "Famous Henry Mountain Monster.

Even my Mossback connections told me if we find a 180" we better kill it.

We failed to find one even close to that, and had to make a decision to eat a 20 year tag or take at least a mature buck regardless of score.

She chose the latter for obvious reasons.

 

[slamdunk]

Exactly What I've Been Sayin PUNK!

And It's Gonna Get Worse Before It Gets Better!

That unit will continue on a downward spiral until they figure out the Doe and recruitment decline issues.

One thing to take out of the Henry equation is highway mortality.
I've heard chatter about diseases like blue tongue.
One thing we did notice about her buck was a huge "ribbon" type worm deep inside the nasal cavity when I caped it.

Other units like Oak Creek and Paunsaugunt seem to be doing really well.

 

[Gator]

Need for higher bounty on Coyotes what would the dollar figure be to get more hunters out and about as a money maker for killing alot more of them. since they are the fawn killing machines. Fur prices suck so what dollar amount makes hunters want to hunt them just for the bounty money. We all know the fuel prices are stopper for some.

 

[elkassassin]

And One More Thing PUNK!

Once The Word Gets Out & We Haven't Helped That The Last Week A Bunch Will Jump Ship & Make Odds Even Worse On Other Units!

That unit will continue on a downward spiral until they figure out the Doe and recruitment decline issues.

One thing to take out of the Henry equation is highway mortality.
I've heard chatter about diseases like blue tongue.
One thing we did notice about her buck was a huge "ribbon" type worm deep inside the nasal cavity when I caped it.

Other units like Oak Creek and Paunsaugunt seem to be doing really well.

 

[slamdunk]

And One More Thing PUNK!

Once The Word Gets Out & We Haven't Helped That The Last Week A Bunch Will Jump Ship & Make Odds Even Worse On Other Units!

Yep, chit chat can definitely change things.

After seeing our Beaver elk tag go for 190k last night to the Lemon boys, that means there is something pretty special down there.

 

[elkassassin]

Ya!

it's one of The Best Hot Spots Right Now!

 

[elkassassin]

I Suspect Hossy Will Be On Here Wanting To Know What You're Doing With the Other 189,999.99!

 

[JB1975]

I Suspect Hossy Will Be On Here Wanting To Know What You're Doing With the Other 189,999.99!

Is there an app for capitalizing every word?

 

[slamdunk]

I Suspect Hossy Will Be On Here Wanting To Know What You're Doing With the Other 189,999.99!

Administration lap dances aren't cheap!!?

 

[Hawkeye]

Bessy, sorry for the delay, but I am finally back to this thread. You keep screaming, that I did not answer your question from early this morning. Once again, however, you need to slow down and read my posts before you click reply, and start typing in “ALL CAPS.”

I answered your question as to whether I was angry that the DWR cut tags on the Henry Mountains by stating: “I don’t mind the DWR cutting some tags if it’s called for under the management plan.” I don’t know how I could be any more clear. Personally, I am not a fan of managing any deer unit for 50 to 60 bucks per hundred does. However, the Henry Mountains is one of two Premium Limited entry deer units in the entire state. Therefore, if the WB elected to cut a few tags in order to comply with a management plan for that unit, then I can live with that decision.

Once again, however, the decision to eliminate a few buck tags from that unit will do nothing to increase the herd numbers. Hunters are not the limiting factor in that unit or any other unit in this state. So you and the other forum members who keep blaming our poor deer numbers on “opportunity hunters” are up in the night. Would the quality be better if we managed the entire state like the Henry Mountains or Antelope Island, sure but at what cost? To eliminate another 75,000 sportsmen from our ranks and turn the entire state into one giant OIL unit? No thanks!

Hawkeye

 

[Vanilla]

Hunters are not the limiting factor in that unit or any other unit in this state. So you and the other forum members who keep blaming our poor deer numbers on “opportunity hunters” are up in the night.

Shout it from the roof tops! I’ve been saying this for years. Hunting is not the limiting factor. It’s not even A limiting factor. But by golly…cut tags! We can only measure success in inches in this state I guess.

Would the quality be better if we managed the entire state like the Henry Mountains or Antelope Island, sure but at what cost? To eliminate another 75,000 sportsmen from our ranks and turn the entire state into one giant OIL unit?

This is EXACTLY what bessy is asking to happen. And then we’ll have to hear him complain then too.

Are Guys With 25 to MAX Points Gonna Waste A 1/3 of a Lifetime to Hunt A Herd That's been Whittled Down To Nothing?

This is the absolute saddest comment on the state of hunting and the entitlement involved that I have ever read. You have X points so you should be able to kill an animal with Y inches. Goodness…how did this even become a thing? Our hunting fathers are rolling over in their graves at this nonsense!

I’ve got 25 elk points, and the ONLY thing I expect and feel entitled to is when I finally pull the tag that I get to go hunt. Everything else is up to me. Nobody owes me a darn thing, and I certainly can’t expect an animal with X amount of inches to be tied to a tree for me just because I made the decision to wait it out this long instead of hunting earlier. Goodness gracious, what a bunch of entitled snowflakes that have that mindset. It’s hunting for crying out loud!!!!

 

[elkassassin]

Screaming?

All CAPS?

You Haven't Seen That In A While!

You & Niller Both Done Exactly As Was Expected!

I Asked You Both:

If You Were As Mad At The DWR For Cutting A Few Tags On The Henries as You are At Me For Suggesting Cutting A Few Tags When I Didn't Even Know They Had Already Cut Some tags until JakeH Posted The Numbers & Info!

No,Cutting Tags Don't Fix It,I Only Suggested it in Hopes We Could Raise The Age Class & Quality on a Few Bucks For Hunters That's waited Umpteen GAWD-DAMNED Years To Finally Pull a Tag!

You & Niller Don't Wanna Accept The Facts That The Quality of The Herd On The Henries Deer Herd(And Every Other LE Unit/General Unit in this State!) Are In Serious Trouble!

But Neither One Of You Wanna Take any serious Steps To Maybe Help the Deer Herd because You Both Know DAMN F'N Well it would cut in to Your PRECIOUS Opportunity!

THE HENRIES:

One of 2 PREMIUM LE DEER UNITS In The State!

If That's What's Known as 1 of 2 of The Best We Have We Are In BIG F'N Trouble!

Back To The Top!

I Asked a Simple YES OR NO Question & Exactly As I Figured You Didn't Simply Answer It Just Like I Thought Would Happen!

Did Either One Of You Contact The DWR When You Found Out They Had Cut A Few Tags on the Henries & Preach Your BS To Them Like You Did Me?


And hawky I Agree with alot of what You Preach in Your Other Posts!

You're Smart Enough To See What's Happening!

And I Agree With You,It's Gonna Get Worse!

But You've got To Admit it's Gonna Take More Than BABY STEPS To Even Try & Fix It!

You've Heard Me Say This Many A Times:

I Don't Care If I Ever Take another Animal!

But I'd Sure Like To See My Grandkids Have A Chance at Something halfassed when they get old enough!

I Don't Know Rather That Thought Has Ever Went Through You or Nillers THICK F'N SCULLS?

Bessy, sorry for the delay, but I am finally back to this thread. You keep screaming, that I did not answer your question from early this morning. Once again, however, you need to slow down and read my posts before you click reply, and start typing in “ALL CAPS.”

I answered your question as to whether I was angry that the DWR cut tags on the Henry Mountains by stating: “I don’t mind the DWR cutting some tags if it’s called for under the management plan.” I don’t know how I could be any more clear. Personally, I am not a fan of managing any deer unit for 50 to 60 bucks per hundred does. However, the Henry Mountains is one of two Premium Limited entry deer units in the entire state. Therefore, if the WB elected to cut a few tags in order to comply with a management plan for that unit, then I can live with that decision.

Once again, however, the decision to eliminate a few buck tags from that unit will do nothing to increase the herd numbers. Hunters are not the limiting factor in that unit or any other unit in this state. So you and the other forum members who keep blaming our poor deer numbers on “opportunity hunters” are up in the night. Would the quality be better if we managed the entire state like the Henry Mountains or Antelope Island, sure but at what cost? To eliminate another 75,000 sportsmen from our ranks and turn the entire state into one giant OIL unit? No thanks!

Hawkeye

 

[Vanilla]

That last post is Bessy’s sick way of crying uncle.

 

[JB1975]

That last post is Bessy’s sick way of crying uncle.

I just want to watch him type all that drivel up, hitting shift every 3 seconds. Post a video Bess

 

[elkassassin]

AIN'T F'N CRYING TO NOBODY!

And I Can't F'OFF On MM Today Like We Did Over The Weekend!

See My Friends Tonight & What Kinda BS Is SPEWED Throughout The Day When I Get Home Tonight!

That last post is Bessy’s sick way of crying uncle.

 

[Hawkeye]

The irony of these last two threads is the Utah legislature passed a bill that will help our deer herds. Specifically, it allocated an additional $1,000,000 to wildlife and made it easier for the DWR and sportsmen to harvest more lions -- the primary predator of mule deer. As a side note, it also tightened the ban on trail cameras on public land after August 1st, which should help take some pressure off of trophy bucks. Yet, a number of folks, including Bessy, are up in arms because they did not follow the proper process and because it will not solve all our mule deer problems in one sweeping blow.

Once again, there is no silver bullet to fix the multi-faceted problems facing our mule deer. However, harvesting more lions and providing additional funds for wildlife WITHOUT TAKING HUNDREDS OF PREMIUM TAGS FROM AVERAGE SPORTSMEN sounds like a pretty good start to me. This bill will easily do more to help our deer herds than cutting buck tags on the Henries or any other unit for that matter.

Hawkeye

 

[slamdunk]

The irony of these last two threads is the Utah legislature passed a bill that will help our deer herds. Specifically, it allocated an additional $1,000,000 to wildlife and made it easier for the DWR and sportsmen to harvest more lions -- the primary predator of mule deer. As a side note, it also tightened the ban on trail cameras on public land after August 1st, which should help take some pressure off of trophy bucks. Yet, a number of folks, including Bessy, are up in arms because they did not follow the proper process and because it will not solve all our mule deer problems in one sweeping blow.

Once again, there is no silver bullet to fix the multi-faceted problems facing our mule deer. However, harvesting more lions and providing additional funds for wildlife WITHOUT TAKING HUNDREDS OF PREMIUM TAGS FROM AVERAGE SPORTSMEN sounds like a pretty good start to me. This bill will easily do more to help our deer herds than cutting buck tags on the Henries or any other unit for that matter.

Hawkeye

I will personally cave in on my home ship's letter.
It does feel hypocritical, even though we do applaud the outcome over the lack of process.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey hawky!

Niller Is Trying To Shy Away From THE RIDE This Fall!

I Told Him He Is Showing Up With You Even If You Have To Shackle Him In Your Rig!

We Going For THE RIDE!

 

[Vanilla]

Don’t tell fibs bessy. I’m in so long as you do it when I’m not hunting. I like killing stuff more than listening to people talk about how they can’t kill stuff. ?

Let’s Dew this!!!

 

[Hawkeye]

Plan on it Bessy! Vanilla and I will come out to the Basin for a “Pisscutter Tour.” I’ll volunteer to drive and provide the drinks. I assume you won’t turn your nose to a Diet Dew?

Hawkeye

 

[elkassassin]

If I Have To Resort To DIE-DEW I Quit DEW Altogether!

You'll Have To Get Me A BIG LEADED Dew!

Plan on it Bessy! Vanilla and I will come out to the Basin for a “Pisscutter Tour.” I’ll volunteer to drive and provide the drinks. I assume you won’t turn your nose to a Diet Dew?

Hawkeye

 

[cannonball]

I am to lazy and old to find the Report on the Henry Mountains that took place many, many years ago, but the deer herd was nearing extinction. The people in Hanksville made a concentrated effort to kill something like 60 mountain lions in a week. The deer herd rebounded in just a few years when the mountain lions were controlled. I saw the report some years ago and it is out there for a researcher to find I am sure.

 

[elkassassin]

Bring Your Gun Niller!

Don’t tell fibs bessy. I’m in so long as you do it when I’m not hunting. I like killing stuff more than listening to people talk about how they can’t kill stuff. ?

Let’s Dew this!!!