The youth I mean secondary draw list is out.😊

brutus54

Active Member
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714
 

street

Member
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25
Good luck
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oilcan

Long Time Member
Messages
3,542
They also didn't put reissues on there. I surrendered a very good muzzleloader antelope tag because I drew a Utah elk tag and it's not on there.
I don’t know about that there’s 1 tag available for the unit I hunt I, it filled with more points then I had in the main draw. Maybe yours is still being processed ?
 

HntHrdr

Active Member
Messages
293
There are some decent 3/4 point tags but yes nothing too crazy last year there were some higher point tags that made the list, my take is if there are not more than 30ish tags you are giving your money away. Once there are more than that you may have a dumb luck chance. Unfortunately the second draw which was lesser known is pimped by every insta/YouTube star out there
 
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trimtab473

Member
Messages
29
I am a non resident and I applied for a tag in the draw that I see on the leftover list. Post draw reports show that all NR tags were drawn.. Does this mean that a resident gave the same tag back and now its in the second draw? Can I apply for it as a non resident?
 

HntHrdr

Active Member
Messages
293
Resident/Non-res caps, which are far too generous to begin with, only apply to tags that are drawn out completely as a 1st choice. You can go for whatever you like in the second draw/ leftover… which means often NR end up with more than 35% tags in a unit… utter Bullchit for us residents… but that is a rant for another thread, that is how it is right now until someone fixes it… which will probably be never, hope that helps
 

Ridn9high

Active Member
Messages
632
I am a non resident and I applied for a tag in the draw that I see on the leftover list. Post draw reports show that all NR tags were drawn.. Does this mean that a resident gave the same tag back and now its in the second draw? Can I apply for it as a non resident?
It was either returned or not paid for. You can apply for it, but will be throwing money away as it will go to a youth
 

jdp010

Member
Messages
83
And a NR youth has the same draw odds as a RES youth in this secondary "youth" draw? In the same way that the later CO reissue list is residency agnostic?

At least CPW is not sending tags to this process that would require a RES 5+ points to draw.

There are a few O3 & O4 buck tags on the 2022 list that are 11-16 NR point draws. And a NR youth could snag that tag with same odds as a RES youth? And you don't even take that NR kid's existing points away? No wonder CPW has a points problem.
 

trimtab473

Member
Messages
29
Resident/Non-res caps, which are far too generous to begin with, only apply to tags that are drawn out completely as a 1st choice. You can go for whatever you like in the second draw/ leftover… which means often NR end up with more than 35% tags in a unit… utter Bullchit for us residents… but that is a rant for another thread, that is how it is right now until someone fixes it… which will probably be never, hope that helps
Yeah that would Chap me if I were a resident. Appreciate the info, sounds like with the youth preference, its a crapshoot for me anyways
 

nripepi

Very Active Member
Messages
1,774
And a NR youth has the same draw odds as a RES youth in this secondary "youth" draw? In the same way that the later CO reissue list is residency agnostic?

At least CPW is not sending tags to this process that would require a RES 5+ points to draw.

There are a few O3 & O4 buck tags on the 2022 list that are 11-16 NR point draws. And a NR youth could snag that tag with same odds as a RES youth? And you don't even take that NR kid's existing points away? No wonder CPW has a points problem.
The issue is the tags that get on this last that are not paid for. If it were just leftover tags that no one applied for then most would not care if youth got preference. Those tags that were not paid for should go to leftover day, not on this 2nd draw list. Would anyone care then?
 

jdp010

Member
Messages
83
The issue is the tags that get on this last that are not paid for. If it were just leftover tags that no one applied for then most would not care if youth got preference. Those tags that were not paid for should go to leftover day, not on this 2nd draw list. Would anyone care then?

Plenty of time for CPW to get those unpaid tags in the hand of the next person in the fairly formed line. Why form a line, and then not honor the line?

Colorado and Nevada exemplify lazy government at its worst in how they administer these processes.
 

HntHrdr

Active Member
Messages
293
Jerry I was going to offer to help you in 67 until I saw this. Pretty damn selfish.
How is thinking that something held in the public trust to be given to one group over the other selfish? What if they gave out tags based on race or gender, would Jerry be justified then? I think the current way is BS. If you want more youth opportunities make more youth RFW tags or youth only hunts. This new system of youth 100% preference is pretty dumb.
What if you didn’t grow up hunting, or in a hunting family, you get an even bigger middle finger from the state where you pay loads of taxes and fees too? I’m all for more youth opportunity, but not at the expense of adults. Second draw and leftover should be resident only for the first go and non res can have what’s left we are already too damn generous or maybe it’s greedy in this state with the big game tags
 
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HntHrdr

Active Member
Messages
293
If non res want to pay all the co taxes and fees and then pay less for CO tags. Be my guest. I’d bet they would opt to pay 600 bucks instead of 7% income tax. Are you a resident of Colorado Mr. Doe?
 

txhunter58

Long Time Member
Messages
7,740
Jerry I was going to offer to help you in 67 until I saw this. Pretty damn selfish.
So, you are ok with them allowing kids to list 4 different choices, and only after going through every youth for all 4 of their choices, do we we get a shot? I could see youth getting pref on 1st choice but not all 4.

All I hear him saying is that he is mad about the fact that he has ZERO chance at a good tag, so why should he apply. For the above reason, I won’t waste my money to apply either.

Thus, the name of this thread. Even those who agree that 100% of youth should have 100% preference, have to admit this is a youth drawing unless you basically want an OTC caliber tag.
 
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fallguy

Active Member
Messages
634
So, you are ok with them allowing kids to list 4 different choices, and only after going through every youth for all 4 of their choices, do we we get a shot? I could see youth getting pref on 1st choice but not all 4.

All I hear him saying is that he is mad about the fact that he has ZERO chance at a good tag, so why should he apply. For the above reason, I won’t waste my money to apply either.

Thus, the name of this thread. Even those who agree that 100% of youth should have 100% preference, have to admit this is a youth drawing unless you basically want an OTC caliber tag.
Let's also not forget about the following current youth perks that were already in place: reduced fee licenses, antlerless license preference in the draws, being allowed to convert their unfilled antlerless deer and elk and either-sex elk tags to antlerless licenses to be used in any remaining open season. Seems to me these are enough to get kids involved.
 

Jerry

Active Member
Messages
400
It’s all a bunch of crap & I’ll not ever again apply for these tags. All for the kids. Not us old guys. Total BS.em
Jerry Gold - in Windsor, Colorado 🤬🤬🤬🤬
I have no problem with giving the kids the tags, but CPW should tell everyone exactly what’s going on as to not waste a guys time &’money !!!
I spent a lot of time & money 💰 last year on
the leftover draw, them found out it was a fraud. I put in for every thing cause I drew nothing, then drew nothing again in the secondary draw.
Yes- I was/am a unhappy camper/hunter.
Yes- give the kids a break , but don’t clobber the old guys with a bull dozer. I’m 74 going on 75.
Just another old geezer huh ????!!!!
Jerry Gold in Windsor, Colorado
 

Ridn9high

Active Member
Messages
632
I have no problem with giving the kids the tags, but CPW should tell everyone exactly what’s going on as to not waste a guys time &’money !!!
I spent a lot of time & money 💰 last year on
the leftover draw, them found out it was a fraud. I put in for every thing cause I drew nothing, then drew nothing again in the secondary draw.
Yes- I was/am a unhappy camper/hunter.
Yes- give the kids a break , but don’t clobber the old guys with a bull dozer. I’m 74 going on 75.
Just another old geezer huh ????!!!!
Jerry Gold in Windsor, Colorado
CPW said last year that youth had preference and their 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th choices would take preference over an adults 1st choice. There are tons of youth that apply and not a whole lot of good tags available. Heck, I put in for one tag for chits and giggles and knew I was donating to the CPW. Guess I was hoping their chitty tag system would mess up and a tag would magically appear in my mailbox!
 

Horniac

Very Active Member
Messages
1,125
They also didn't put reissues on there. I surrendered a very good muzzleloader antelope tag because I drew a Utah elk tag and it's not on there.
I also surrendered a very good muzzleloader antelope tag because I drew a Utah elk tag as well. It is also not on the list as it most likely went to the next alternate...

Horniac
 

txhunter58

Long Time Member
Messages
7,740
Still seems more likely they just called the next guy on the list if your tag took many points. I do see some cow tags on the list they require 2 to 3 points to draw, so there were no leftovers for those tags. They had to be returned
 

MrDoe

Active Member
Messages
150
So, you are ok with them allowing kids to list 4 different choices, and only after going through every youth for all 4 of their choices, do we we get a shot? I could see youth getting pref on 1st choice but not all 4.

All I hear him saying is that he is mad about the fact that he has ZERO chance at a good tag, so why should he apply. For the above reason, I won’t waste my money to apply either.

Thus, the name of this thread. Even those who agree that 100% of youth should have 100% preference, have to admit this is a youth drawing unless you basically want an OTC caliber tag.
Yes I'm OK with 1-4 going to kids. I think it's a good thing and gives kids chances at tags that they couldn't draw as a youth because of the preference points required. These are basically bonus tags, adults have a chance at reissues, leftovers, vouchers, and first draw.
 

MrDoe

Active Member
Messages
150
I have no problem with giving the kids the tags, but CPW should tell everyone exactly what’s going on as to not waste a guys time &’money !!!
I spent a lot of time & money 💰 last year on
the leftover draw, them found out it was a fraud. I put in for every thing cause I drew nothing, then drew nothing again in the secondary draw.
Yes- I was/am a unhappy camper/hunter.
Yes- give the kids a break , but don’t clobber the old guys with a bull dozer. I’m 74 going on 75.
Just another old geezer huh ????!!!!
Jerry Gold in Windsor, Colorado
What were you out, $30? Time, 10 mins? The youth preference was clear for the secondary "raffle". I drew a secondary tag last year, and so did both of my kids. When something new comes out some critical thinking can go a long way.

YOU ARE BURNING ALMOST 2 DECADES WORTH OF DEER POINTS. YOU CLOBBERED YOURSELF WITH A BULLDOZER.
 

MrDoe

Active Member
Messages
150
Let's also not forget about the following current youth perks that were already in place: reduced fee licenses, antlerless license preference in the draws, being allowed to convert their unfilled antlerless deer and elk and either-sex elk tags to antlerless licenses to be used in any remaining open season. Seems to me these are enough to get kids involved.
Let me guess, you're 65+ with 15+ points for everything?
 

txhunter58

Long Time Member
Messages
7,740
What were you out, $30? Time, 10 mins? The youth preference was clear for the secondary "raffle". I drew a secondary tag last year, and so did both of my kids. When something new comes out some critical thinking can go a long way.

YOU ARE BURNING ALMOST 2 DECADES WORTH OF DEER POINTS. YOU CLOBBERED YOURSELF WITH A BULLDOZER.
Let me guess..

No wait a minute, you already told us you had 2 kids that drew last year in the secondary draw. And most likely will draw again this year. Understandable how you feel.

Have to agree to disagree. I would support a first choice kids preference. But not all 4 choices.

Hopefully, since more people know about this now, the amount of people who put in this year will be down substantially. Because as you admit, this is def a youth drawing. So why should adults put in at all? Suspect if that happens, the lost revenue would make them think twice.

If they were really transparent, they would hold a youth only drawing first, then post what is leftover for an adult drawing. But they know if they did that, very very few adults would put in.
 
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HntHrdr

Active Member
Messages
293
Yes I'm OK with 1-4 going to kids. I think it's a good thing and gives kids chances at tags that they couldn't draw as a youth because of the preference points required. These are basically bonus tags, adults have a chance at reissues, leftovers, vouchers, and first

Youth have a shot in the regular draw just like everyone else. This is just going to add to point creep cause every dad that hunts will get points for the kids and then draw in second draw. We all know that most of CO trophy units are unattainable these days anyways well it will 100% be when the next generation comes up.

CPW needs to fix res/ non res allocation before they make youth preference on second draw. Heck just make more youth only tags across the board and forget youth preference in second draw all together, I’m sure the herds could take 10 more youth tags in every unit. How great would it be if they gave 10 youngsters a shot a 201, 2 , or 10 every year?

Your kids are lucky they have a dad that hunts. I had to get into the deal on my own in my earlier 20’s. 12 years later and missing seasons working for Uncle Sam and I finally have a sometime to hunt and then get told that kids get 100% preference on second draw… sorry man, it doesn’t sit that well with me. Let them have the same shot that anyone does in 2nd draw it’s a straight lotto. I don’t know. Maybe my opinion will change in another 12 years when/if my daughter wants to hunt, but it should be straight lotto
 

txhunter58

Long Time Member
Messages
7,740
I am down for putting in for a drawing even if it’s “so you’re saying there’s a chance!”

But, there is ZERO chance for an adult to draw a good tag in this drawing. Nada. The big goose egg!

So I hope other hunters realize this and do what I am doing: skip this drawing altogether and wait for reissue tags, where at least “there’s a chance!”
 

HntHrdr

Active Member
Messages
293
I am down for putting in for a drawing even if it’s “so you’re saying there’s a chance!”

But, there is ZERO chance for an adult to draw a good tag in this drawing. Nada. The big goose egg!

So I hope other hunters realize this and do what I am doing: skip this drawing altogether and wait for reissue tags, where at least “there’s a chance!”
I agree, I’m in a weird spot this year, was supposed to burn 8 elk points, but with mama having a baby mid august, I was told hunting time would be limited this year, so I’m trying to grab a tag in my cabin’s unit, which is a zero/ 1 point area… honestly not a great hunting unit but a little hunting is better than no hunting, there are 20+/- tags in the second draw…. So they suckered me in. Otherwise I would be out on the racket. My guess is the snot nosers will take it but hey it’s fun to dream. There might be some late turn ins for the unit as well since I won’t go up until later in sept. The re issue process didn’t go so well last year either though
 

fallguy

Active Member
Messages
634
Yes I'm OK with 1-4 going to kids. I think it's a good thing and gives kids chances at tags that they couldn't draw as a youth because of the preference points required. These are basically bonus tags, adults have a chance at reissues, leftovers, vouchers, and first draw.
All Re-issues to date are in the Secondary Draw - they are not held for the Re-issue process which they should be.
 

ORIONTHEHUNTER

Very Active Member
Messages
1,013
I also surrendered a very good muzzleloader antelope tag because I drew a Utah elk tag as well. It is also not on the list as it most likely went to the next alternate...

Horniac
have you had your preference points reinstated? I got my card refunded but still haven't gotten my points back
 

30PointBuck

Member
Messages
29
I am having a hard time understanding the strong youth preference in the secondary draw. Can anyone explain the reason why they think it is a great idea other than their kids getting tags? I could see strong cases for woman preference, senior preference, etc. but only for the same biased reasons that people like the youth preference. I do hear that ensuring the future of hunting is part of the reason. But, a lot of hunters developed a passion without tag preference. Also, I worry that the youth interest in hunting could wane when they get older and tags are harder to draw than they had become accustomed to. My question is legitimate. Help me understand your perspective.
 

Horniac

Very Active Member
Messages
1,125
With the new system, you have a “grace period” in which you can get your points AND money back? But no point for this year?

If you were a kid, you would prob get that extra point! 🤪
Yes you are supposed to get your pre-draw level points back plus a refund on the tag if you surrendered your tag by the 6/6 deadline.

The new return system was strange. It required you to fill out a Google doc.

So far my my CPW account shows no tag, no points, and I have not received a refund for the tag on my credit card…

Horniac
 

oldmossback

Moderator
Messages
884
They also didn't put reissues on there. I surrendered a very good muzzleloader antelope tag because I drew a Utah elk tag and it's not on there.
if the tag took more than 5 points it goes to the next in line that applied for it. If no one wants it, It will hit the reissue list later this summer
 

oldmossback

Moderator
Messages
884
I have no problem with giving the kids the tags, but CPW should tell everyone exactly what’s going on as to not waste a guys time &’money !!!
I spent a lot of time & money 💰 last year on
the leftover draw, them found out it was a fraud. I put in for every thing cause I drew nothing, then drew nothing again in the secondary draw.
Yes- I was/am a unhappy camper/hunter.
Yes- give the kids a break , but don’t clobber the old guys with a bull dozer. I’m 74 going on 75.
Just another old geezer huh ????!!!!
Jerry Gold in Windsor, Colorado
I would not be opposed to a senior citizen preference as well. Maybe we should bring this up to the powers above?
 

JakeH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,233
Yes you are supposed to get your pre-draw level points back plus a refund on the tag if you surrendered your tag by the 6/6 deadline.

The new return system was strange. It required you to fill out a Google doc.

So far my my CPW account shows no tag, no points, and I have not received a refund for the tag on my credit card…

Horniac
I had to turn my dad's tag back due to drawing anothertag that conflictswith it in utah, I got the refund already, haven't checked his points, he only had 1.
 

oldmossback

Moderator
Messages
884
have you had your preference points reinstated? I got my card refunded but still haven't gotten my points back
ummm. orion, you don't get both. You need to choose, points back or money back. (Always pick points back.). There are 3 boxes on the surrender form.
Refund
Points restoration
Surrender

Did you check the one for refund or points restoration?
 

Horniac

Very Active Member
Messages
1,125
ummm. orion, you don't get both. You need to choose, points back or money back. (Always pick points back.). There are 3 boxes on the surrender form.
Refund
Points restoration
Surrender

Did you check the one for refund or points restoration
You got both this year if surrendered by 6/6. See page 1 or 2 of the regs…

Horniac
 

just_a_hunter

Active Member
Messages
425
It may be that I just have 4 kids that I love to include in the outdoors but I'm quite disheartened by the selfishness of some of you dichs who actually have a problem with the youth getting 100% preference on all things in the secondary draw. Because they have so much opportunity to begin with and all. How many of "you" (rhetorical) don't include your kids on your adventures? I'm willing to bet the ones that do are 100% satisfied with them actually having a fighting chance at some of the good hunting.

SMH...

Todd
 

just_a_hunter

Active Member
Messages
425
Them: Why do you care so much about taking a kid hunting?

Me: Because I was once that kid....

Some of y'all forgot... And I don't feel sorry of us (40 and up) old people. We had it pretty dang good growing up with the hunting opportunity. Most senior citizens that love to hunt let their dogs chew on the 180" buck racks they killed when they were kids.

Todd
 

txhunter58

Long Time Member
Messages
7,740
It may be that I just have 4 kids that I love to include in the outdoors but I'm quite disheartened by the selfishness of some of you dichs who actually have a problem with the youth getting 100% preference on all things in the secondary draw. Because they have so much opportunity to begin with and all. How many of "you" (rhetorical) don't include your kids on your adventures? I'm willing to bet the ones that do are 100% satisfied with them actually having a fighting chance at some of the good hunting.

SMH...

Todd
Wow. Tell us what you really feel about us!

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We
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Nah, I don’t care about kids enjoying the outdoors or hunting with me. This is a sampling of SOME of the kids I have taken hunting in the last 18 months. The last is my grandson whom I hope will draw a tag in the secondary draw.

But I still think they should get preference only on their first choice.

FYI. My daughter doesn’t hunt but she goes with me on hunts and we ski and camp together.
 

just_a_hunter

Active Member
Messages
425
Good for you for involving youth on some of your adventures. I'm sure they love the time and memories. Again, I personally don't feel sorry that the youth have 100% preference over you, even past 1st choice.

Todd
 

just_a_hunter

Active Member
Messages
425
Well then tell us your opinion on that but don’t act like a kid and call us names.
I'm still disheartened by the fact that you are selfish (no other way to say it) enough you think you should have a chance at some tags they should get if they can in a leftover or 2nd drawing. I'll gladly take a second seat for any tag the youth in your clan have a chance at getting. Us older people (you are a generation above me) and the huge bank of points we have stacked up over the youth give us a HUGE advantage in the regular drawing. Sorry for throwing the term "dich" out there. Perhaps un called for but does the shoe fit?
 

Jerry

Active Member
Messages
400
Cmon Jerry?
You begged me for info on your 61 bull tag then returned it a couple years ago?
Not an issue with this conversation but let’s be honest about tags!
That year I got a really bad infection in lower right leg in mid summer, Dr said that’s it, no climbing around in canyons and risking getting it worse !!! I sense that you just don’t like me period ! Doesn’t bother me. Everyone has an opinion. Deal with it.
I have those same points for elk still- 17 now.
Have a great season !
Jerry Gold in
Windsor, Colorado
 

fallguy

Active Member
Messages
634
My heartburn is with the re-issues going into the Secondary Draw. They should be held for the Re-issue list/weekly draws that follow the Secondary Draw.

I have no problem with a youth preference (first choice) in a true Leftover Draw held prior to when the Re-issued licenses become available.
 

HntHrdr

Active Member
Messages
293
I'm still disheartened by the fact that you are selfish (no other way to say it) enough you think you should have a chance at some tags they should get if they can in a leftover or 2nd drawing. I'll gladly take a second seat for any tag the youth in your clan have a chance at getting. Us older people (you are a generation above me) and the huge bank of points we have stacked up over the youth give us a HUGE advantage in the regular drawing. Sorry for throwing the term "dich" out there. Perhaps
You admit to loving it because it benefits your family directly, what if you didn’t have kids would you still be gung ho?

I’m all for more youth only tags, but make them youth only tags in the first draw. let’s keep the 2nd draw truly random, like it was for years.

I love all the dads who get good tags… for their kids (right) and then act all selfless like they arent enjoying the heck out of the hunt themselves and doing 99% of the hunting except for pulling the trigger, or heck maybe they are doing that too ;) can’t let the 180 pointer get away.

My question sir, is do you let your kids pick the animals they want to shoot? Or do you pick the animal for them?
 

nripepi

Very Active Member
Messages
1,774
It may be that I just have 4 kids that I love to include in the outdoors but I'm quite disheartened by the selfishness of some of you dichs who actually have a problem with the youth getting 100% preference on all things in the secondary draw. Because they have so much opportunity to begin with and all. How many of "you" (rhetorical) don't include your kids on your adventures? I'm willing to bet the ones that do are 100% satisfied with them actually having a fighting chance at some of the good hunting.

SMH...

Todd
The issue is the high-point tags being included in the list that is a youth draw only. I don't agree with it, but your point is taken that maybe there should be more youth opportunities in general. I think most would agree with that sentiment, just not a tag that takes some 15 years to draw when in reality it should just go to the next in line with 15 points.

This is from a parent of 3 that actually had a youth draw in the 2nd draw last year. I didn't feel like it was fair, but guess we will try again.
 

just_a_hunter

Active Member
Messages
425
You admit to loving it because it benefits your family directly, what if you didn’t have kids would you still be gung ho?

I’m all for more youth only tags, but make them youth only tags in the first draw. let’s keep the 2nd draw truly random, like it was for years.

I love all the dads who get good tags… for their kids (right) and then act all selfless like they arent enjoying the heck out of the hunt themselves and doing 99% of the hunting except for pulling the trigger, or heck maybe they are doing that too ;) can’t let the 180 pointer get away.

My question sir, is do you let your kids pick the animals they want to shoot? Or do you pick the animal for them?

Yes I would still be gung ho. I was that kid once. My family is very young with my oldest turning 12 this year and will be her first year hunting Co. My 12 year old is the only person in my family that has any benefit from this. Well, it's what we really enjoy so the family will get a lot of entertainment and sustenance from her hunts. If she draws a good tag and wants to shoot a 2 point, I promise you I will not stop her. Maybe we'll talk about it when she has a couple notches in her stock.

When it's their tag, they get to pick. Like last year when my 11 year old was on HER first hunt. It was expensive. I drove her all the way out to Oklahoma where she was invited (not me. I didn't get to hunt. Didn't want to. It was her hunt.) The first deer she had a chance at was a dink yearling. She loved it, I loved it and it was awesome. The next morning a nice 135" 8 point walked out and offered a shot. She knew she had her turn, and it was an awesome experience just getting to watch him and hunt a few states away from where she was from.

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She will have the opportunity to hunt as many of the extended youth tags as she can.

I have also walked away from a 22" black bear on my bait on public land so I could have the chance at being able to get him with my daughter by my side. I would have gladly of killed a way lesser bear with her involved than tag this guy with her not there. It was my tag, her hunt. She got to make a lot of rules for this hunt and it just so happened it worked out and "we" were able to take home the big guy...

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Then there was this guy, Also my hunt with her by my side. Not a huge buck but pretty nice especially for where he came out of.

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I have more band with of pictures with my kids in the outdoors and on my hunts than this thread will hold. Rest assured, I thoroughly enjoy my time in the woods hunting. I do carve out "me" hunts once in a while. I would so much rather kill a 2 point with my kids by my side than a nice buck alone. That is my standard that I don't think the world should feel the same way about. I can't get behind anybody complaining about youth having first dibs on a 2nd drawing. Even if the high point tags make it on the list.

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Happy hunting to you all,

Todd
 

HntHrdr

Active Member
Messages
293
Todd,

I give you props for how you are doing it. I know some seem to drag the kids along if they want to or not and it’s more their tag than their kids. You seem to be doing it right. Good luck to your daughter this year on her hunts. Hopefully my daughter will be interested in about 12 years and maybe I’ll be singing a different tune then.
 

jdp010

Member
Messages
83
... I'm quite disheartened by the selfishness of some of you dichs who actually have a problem with the youth getting 100% preference on all things in the secondary draw.
I don't believe an adult is being a selfish dich for calling out the inequities in the design of this youth/secondary draw.

DM055O3R had a line of adults waiting as long as 17 years (NR) for the tag. (4 PP RES tag, 16 PP NR)

This week, I was able to apply several NR youth (my kids and friend's kids) for tags like that one that are now youth only. Several of the kids did not even participate in the primary draw. In fact, some didn't even have a CPW account until this week. But yet those youth get to step in now and trump someone who was patiently queuing for 17 years?

There are several youth preference designs in CO that provide plenty of great opportunity. This asinine design is not needed to get those kids out hunting.

Most of the tags on this list are RES returns/non-payments - and I don't blame those RES for being upset that these tags convert to a RES, and even NR, youth in this manner.

And it only gets worse in August (with re-issue) when the NR adults join in on this party. Why did CPW take a $7-9 application fee from you in March if they weren't going to keep track of the tag choices you gave them and try to get you that tag if it became available? Does it feel like CPW conveniently forgot your choices so that they could charge another $7-9 app fee to someone else?
 

StocknBone

Member
Messages
5
For most of us on here, if today were our last day, we could still talk with our hunting buddies about our hunting hay days. The way things keep changing, this could very well be there's. Probably not perfect but i say we leave it be. Im 55 now, 45 years ago i had a honda QA 50 with a gun rack and the whole world by the tail, its a bit different now. Good luck to all this fall.
 

ORIONTHEHUNTER

Very Active Member
Messages
1,013
ummm. orion, you don't get both. You need to choose, points back or money back. (Always pick points back.). There are 3 boxes on the surrender form.
Refund
Points restoration
Surrender

Did you check the one for refund or points restoration?
yeah your wrong you get both this year if you surrendered the tag before the deadline right after the draw
 

ORIONTHEHUNTER

Very Active Member
Messages
1,013
▶ A BRIEF PERIOD TO SURRENDER YOUR LICENSE AFTER THE PRIMARY DRAW IS NOW AVAILABLE: Once the draw is complete, CPW will send emails to customers who are successful in the draw and provide them with a short period when they can decide to surrender their license if they no longer want it, receiving preference point restoration to the pre-draw level, a refund of the license fee and removal of the license from the customer's account. The deadline for this surrender period is Mon., June 6, at 11:59 p.m. MT. If we're unable to charge the credit card on file in your account by the primary draw payment deadline (June 17, midnight MT), your license will be forfeited, and you will lose both the license and any preference points you used to draw it. See page 8 for more details. ▶ THE LICENSE EXCHANGE FEE POLICY HAS CHANGED: All license exchange
 

HntHrdr

Active Member
Messages
293
Do you hunt BLM or NF?
Sure do, I and my wife also pay about 35 percent in federal income tax, but that land happens to fall in my home state, I also go out on wildland firefighting rolls to prevent big chunks of it from turning to moon dust, don’t worry I do my part. I get what your getting at, how do you access those spots? Lots off of roads that the state pays to maintain, from our super expensive vehicle registration… we could go back and forth but don’t pretend like a 600 dollar elk tag isn’t the deal I’d the century for you out of staters.
 

OldMan2

Active Member
Messages
155
Sure do, I and my wife also pay about 35 percent in federal income tax, but that land happens to fall in my home state, I also go out on wildland firefighting rolls to prevent big chunks of it from turning to moon dust, don’t worry I do my part. I get what your getting at, how do you access those spots? Lots off of roads that the state pays to maintain, from our super expensive vehicle registration… we could go back and forth but don’t pretend like a 600 dollar elk tag isn’t the deal I’d the century for you out of staters.
We all pay federal taxes. If CO has a big fire, our smoke jumpers are just a call away. Last two places I hunted had only had 2 state highways 40 and 141. Sure the residents are happy they exist for access to their properties. Did a hunt by Pagosa Springs, spent 10 days lodging in a condo. Ate and drank local. Bought their expensive gas. Did a bit of hunting to. Ate the tag, like I’ve done a number of times. Did not get a chance to use my small game or fishing licenses. Do you know what percent of license revenue comes from NR’s. Just curious.
 

MrDoe

Active Member
Messages
150
Wow. Tell us what you really feel about us!

View attachment 79431View attachment 79433WeView attachment 79434View attachment 79435View attachment 79436View attachment 79437
Nah, I don’t care about kids enjoying the outdoors or hunting with me. This is a sampling of SOME of the kids I have taken hunting in the last 18 months. The last is my grandson whom I hope will draw a tag in the secondary draw.

But I still think they should get preference only on their first choice.

FYI. My daughter doesn’t hunt but she goes with me on hunts and we ski and camp together.
I love axis deer. So freaking delicious....
 

MrDoe

Active Member
Messages
150
You admit to loving it because it benefits your family directly, what if you didn’t have kids would you still be gung ho?

I’m all for more youth only tags, but make them youth only tags in the first draw. let’s keep the 2nd draw truly random, like it was for years.

I love all the dads who get good tags… for their kids (right) and then act all selfless like they arent enjoying the heck out of the hunt themselves and doing 99% of the hunting except for pulling the trigger, or heck maybe they are doing that too ;) can’t let the 180 pointer get away.

My question sir, is do you let your kids pick the animals they want to shoot? Or do you pick the animal for them?
I let my kids choose. I also like to take them on quality hunts where we can hunt without bumping into a ton of people, so I'm excited about some of the 1-4 pt tags on the list.
 

MrDoe

Active Member
Messages
150
The issue is the high-point tags being included in the list that is a youth draw only. I don't agree with it, but your point is taken that maybe there should be more youth opportunities in general. I think most would agree with that sentiment, just not a tag that takes some 15 years to draw when in reality it should just go to the next in line with 15 points.

This is from a parent of 3 that actually had a youth draw in the 2nd draw last year. I didn't feel like it was fair, but guess we will try again.
There are not 15 pt tags on the secondary draw list.... Everything is less than 5 resident points unless I missed something.
 

OldMan2

Active Member
Messages
155
$700 now for an elk tag! $800 when you add the small game, habitat, and app fee. But who is counting??🤪

But at least I get a fishing license!! 😉
So question for you. If I draw antelope, deer, and elk and they include a fishing license with each tag. Do I have 3 fishing licenses? Do I get to keep 3 times the possession limit? Is it even legal? What if a resident tried to buy 3 fishing licenses? 🤣😲
 

FrontRange

Active Member
Messages
316
I don't mind that CPAW has a youth draw but they should market it like that and only allow youth to apply, otherwise it seems pretty shady collecting application money for a bunch of tags that have very little chance of being drawn by anyone other than youth.
 

Horniac

Very Active Member
Messages
1,125
I don't mind that CPAW has a youth draw but they should market it like that and only allow youth to apply, otherwise it seems pretty shady collecting application money for a bunch of tags that have very little chance of being drawn by anyone other than youth.
IF you read the rules it clearly states that youth have preference (4th bullet point). I took a flier on it last year not knowing how many of the tags would fall through to adult applicants. Saving my money this year as I don’t want to throw good money after bad on what is basically a zero odds drawing for adults…

Horniac

Some things to remember about the secondary draw:
■ You must have a qualifying license to apply for the secondary draw.
Fall turkey licenses are now valid qualifying licenses!
■ The $7.13 resident and $9.17 nonresident application fees apply.
■ The secondary draw does not use preference points, and you cannot apply for
preference points.
■ Applications are for individuals only, not groups.
■ Youth receive preference for all hunt codes in the secondary draw.
 

FrontRange

Active Member
Messages
316
My reading comprehension is pretty good, trust me.

How about the mass mailing e-mail sent by the CPAW a couple of days ago:

Apply For The Secondary Big Game Draw!

Most elk, deer, pronghorn and bear licenses not issued through the primary draw are available in the secondary draw, which is open to anyone, whether you applied for the primary draw or not. It’s your chance to get licenses remaining from the primary draw without having to wait until leftover day!

This is the type of shady marketing I'm referring to.
 

Horniac

Very Active Member
Messages
1,125
My reading comprehension is pretty good, trust me.

How about the mass mailing e-mail sent by the CPAW a couple of days ago:

Apply For The Secondary Big Game Draw!

Most elk, deer, pronghorn and bear licenses not issued through the primary draw are available in the secondary draw, which is open to anyone, whether you applied for the primary draw or not. It’s your chance to get licenses remaining from the primary draw without having to wait until leftover day!

This is the type of shady marketing I'm referring to.
Agree it is shady. Pretty much you have to read fine print type of thing…

Horniac
 

OldMan2

Active Member
Messages
155
MI don't mind that CPAW has a youth draw but they should market it like that and only allow youth to apply, otherwise it seems pretty shady collecting application money for a bunch of tags that have very little chance of being drawn by anyone other than youth
I don't mind that CPAW has a youth draw but they should market it like that and only allow youth to apply, otherwise it seems pretty shady collecting application money for a bunch of tags that have very little chance of being drawn by anyone other than youth.
Well said. I don’t know why an adult would apply.
I’m thinking of starting my own competing draw (you know like the LIV)
Calling it the “No Chance Draw”.
1. Similar to the Secondary Big Game draw it will cost $7/9. (Or just send me $10 if you don’t have any singles)
2. Similar to the Secondary Big Game draw, you won’t receive a tag.
Benefits:
1. No time spent filling out an application!
2. I’m telling you up front, you’re not going to receive $hit.
3. The money I receive will be donated to worthy organization, not the CPW.
Disclaimer; this my not be in several states, including NY, CA, IL (these are the ones I always see in these types of statements)
 

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