Then we have the teacher's union

eelgrass

eelgrass

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"This has been a wrenching time in the U.S. labor market, with tens of
millions thrown out of work. It’s been an inspiring time. Workers we never would have thought of as essential before — grocery-store employees, delivery guys, meat-packing workers — have kept absolutely necessary parts of the economy operating even while most of their fellow Americans were staying at home.
Not only have doctors and health-care workers put themselves on the line, but cops and firefighters have done the same. It’s not correct to say that all these people have done their jobs uncomplainingly — many have worried, understandably, about their safety and wanted more protections. But all have shown up. All have been there, during the horrific spring outbreak, during a brief respite, and during the current summer resurgence. Anyone who doesn’t acknowledge our debt to them is a thoughtless ingrate. Then, there are the teachers unions."

www.nationalreview.com

The Shame of the Teachers’ Unions | National Review

They’ve fought for teachers to get paid for not working, and they’ve placed children’s well-being and education low on their list of priorities.
www.nationalreview.com www.nationalreview.com
 
Talked to a plumber friend. After back surgery, 2 knees, and bypass, his health is at a point he has to stop herding turds.

I guess teachers have decided they shouldn't ever have to make DECISIONS based on health . They should be paid from starting to death.
 
It's the union leadership, mostly. The in the classroom teachers, like my daughter, want to be in the classroom with "her" kids. The teachers aren't all snowflakes. Also, they do practice "active shooter drills", and my daughter's principal asked her to concealed carry on campus.
 
When my wife was younger she was a teachers aid , I still have parents and her students thanking my wife for her good teaching, that’s what it’s all about !
 
Well down here we had a huge "Red for ed movement" led by an admitted socialist ( notice what color they choose) so we're going to be getting played on this. It's starting to open a lot of folks eyes about how many forces are at work united for the dem party. Then it's all being tied together with the indoctrination and opposition to school choice which is really in the child's best interest in many areas.

Red states, red socialist flags, red and black socialist flags with worker party symbols on them.......RED FOR ED, BLACK LIVES MATTER, ANTIFA, and a host of others all led by socialist's.....see a pattern here? The ties to socialism aren't even being hid today when they were for a long time.......These are the folks rioting in your streets and destroying your country right before your eyes and the dems are giving them cover! And OLD JOE IS APPOINTING THEM TO HEAD UP PARTS OF HIS CABINET.........HMMMM
 
BuzzH said:
You really should try getting out of the bunker...and a hat made of something other than tinfoil for a nice change of pace.

Your socialist, conspiracy theory rants are worn out...you need new material.
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You must be in a Biden Bunker
 
Buzz it's you that needs to open your eyes not me. The fact red for ed leader down here admitted he's a socialist kind of shoots a big hole in your nonsense!!!!! What's wrong BUZZY are your commie buddies getting uncovered? Union affiliations and their protections being crooked... COME ON BUZZY..you're dumber than I thought trying to defend that! It's been going on for decades and is legend, its why they probably haven't canned you for malfeasance.

By the way BUZZ does you supervisor know you're spending your work day commenting on a public political forums. If memory serves since taxpayers in both parties are paying your salary you're NOT supposed to take sides! That used to be TABOO!! I'm sure Obama may have changed that since he's been so law abiding and we all know you're a damn liberal hack. Now be a good little socialist and crawl back under your rock
 
In my dream world a superintendent would put out that school starts on X, teachers contracts state they show up 2 weeks prior to prepare.

Any teacher that fails to show is in violation of their contract and will be terminated.

Parents and taxpayers are really not in the mood to listen to the teachers unions.

Double digit unemployment. Let them go use that education degree to find employment in the private sector where they can work 6 months year and make demands.
 
I think we all know what's going on... disruption and destruction till after Nov. 3 There's no way schools shouldn't open especially where there is a minute risk.

Screen Shot 2020-08-06 at 10.05.50 AM.png
 
hossblur said:
In my dream world a superintendent would put out that school starts on X, teachers contracts state they show up 2 weeks prior to prepare.

Any teacher that fails to show is in violation of their contract and will be terminated.

Parents and taxpayers are really not in the mood to listen to the teachers unions.

Double digit unemployment. Let them go use that education degree to find employment in the private sector where they can work 6 months year and make demands.
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Have you read the contract?

If not you're making a lot of assumptions. Does the contract specify what's required of teachers during a pandemic? Is there language specific to PPE, immunization for students?

I'll be the first to tell you, in case you're wondering, what is specified in contracts is non-negotiable. Its already been negotiated. Meaning if there is language regarding required immunization for students, PPE, pandemic response, etc. etc....the superintendent can go pound sand. Good luck firing someone if the contract is being violated by Management to do so.

If things are not in the contract, then it needs to be negotiated between the Union and the School Administration/Management. THAT, I assure you is in the contract language.

It doesn't mean chit if the parents and taxpayers are not in the mood to listen, they don't have a choice. That's the very reason why Unions exist, and why the contract isn't between the Union and taxpayers/parents. Its between the Union/Bargaining Unit and School Management. If the parents don't like what has been negotiated, they can take it up with the school administration/management.

I don't believe its unreasonable, with a novel virus that's killed 150+K people, that the Teachers Unions are asking for reasonable assurance that their work place be safe. If Management cant assure that, then expect a lot of pushback. Its not worth the risk to put your family, your community, and yourself at risk so that parents don't have to mind their little booger-eaters.
 
It’s arguably more important to try to get it right in the schools than anywhere else. Lots of your little nose picking vectors there.

Our school district isn’t unionized. Unions would much rather destroy America thru meddling in curriculum than workplace safety rules. That’s hyperbole for you culture warriors.
 
BuzzH said:
Have you read the contract?

If not you're making a lot of assumptions. Does the contract specify what's required of teachers during a pandemic? Is there language specific to PPE, immunization for students?

I'll be the first to tell you, in case you're wondering, what is specified in contracts is non-negotiable. Its already been negotiated. Meaning if there is language regarding required immunization for students, PPE, pandemic response, etc. etc....the superintendent can go pound sand. Good luck firing someone if the contract is being violated by Management to do so.

If things are not in the contract, then it needs to be negotiated between the Union and the School Administration/Management. THAT, I assure you is in the contract language.

It doesn't mean chit if the parents and taxpayers are not in the mood to listen, they don't have a choice. That's the very reason why Unions exist, and why the contract isn't between the Union and taxpayers/parents. Its between the Union/Bargaining Unit and School Management. If the parents don't like what has been negotiated, they can take it up with the school administration/management.

I don't believe its unreasonable, with a novel virus that's killed 150+K people, that the Teachers Unions are asking for reasonable assurance that their work place be safe. If Management cant assure that, then expect a lot of pushback. Its not worth the risk to put your family, your community, and yourself at risk so that parents don't have to mind their little booger-eaters.
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Spoken like a true Union rep.

Like you said, "reasonable" isn't contract language. Which is precisely why in my district, there have been 2 school board meetings just this week. In the end parents and "booger eaters" lost. Utah has 41 districts, with 41 different plans. But they do have 1 very powerful teachers union.
That union, like every other, including the one Buzz represents, cares only about the union, the actual jobs/industries they are involved in come way down the list.


So as usual, folks trying to maintain lives, dont have the time to try to fight every piblic employee union in every sector, so they generally take a beating when that seector comes into focus.

Buzz can spend all day every day pushing his unions wants. The rest of us dont have that time, so of course we lose.
 
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Here's a little more color on just how the teachers unions are weaponizing their position against the taxpayers and parents. Think all the demands in here are reasonable? Given the magnitude of some of these demands it's obvious were being played.

By the way NY. Governor just gave the green light for the schools to open.

BY THE WAY HOW MANY OF THEIR DEMANDS WERE IN THEIR CONTRACTS?

thefederalist.com

Teachers Unions Are Attempting Political Blackmail. Let's Break Them Up

In an abject show of selfishness and political bias, teachers unions are trying to hold the country hostage over baseless COVID-19 fears.
thefederalist.com thefederalist.com
 
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Don't get indignant.....the real problem here is that the skools won't be able to provide day care. Concern for the children is a ways down the list I'm afraid.

"The union" is truly a dog whistle for the right.
 
Bluehair said:
Don't get indignant.....the real problem here is that the skools won't be able to provide day care. Concern for the children is a ways down the list I'm afraid.

"The union" is truly a dog whistle for the right.
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Well, after the taxpayers built billions in building complete with every luxury known to man, god forbid the taxpayers might think their kids should go to those buildings.

At our school board meeting last night, there were hundreds of PARENTS AND KIDS. Shockingly the UEA rep was called to speak.

Its not a dog whistle. Teachers unions are LABOR UNIONS. They dont represent kids, or education. Their job is to lobby for teachers. Copy and paste, hit send, enjoy the day is a lot easier than actually teaching, so of course that's what the Unions are pushing.
 
Take a guess who demands all the luxury items for schools?

We had the State here where I live give the county 80.3 million for a new high school...but the parents didn't think that was good enough.

So, we had a bond vote for another 25 million because heaven forbid, the world would fall apart if little johnnie didn't have a million dollars worth of 2 synthetic turf fields to play football on. Or if the little angels didn't have a 12 million dollar Olympic sized swimming pool. Or seating arrangements around that pool for over 3K spectators...because in a town of 30K we wouldn't want any highschool swimming and diving fans to go without.

Of the 25 million bond, only about 1 million went to anything to do with scholastic achievement.

So spare me the teachers Unions wanting a fair benefits package and a safe environment to work in when we can dump 14 million on the taxpayers for a swimming pool.

The luxury items are demands from the parents and students, not the teachers.

BTW, how long did it take you to realize Labor Unions represent Labor?
 
BuzzH said:
Take a guess who demands all the luxury items for schools?

We had the State here where I live give the county 80.3 million for a new high school...but the parents didn't think that was good enough.

So, we had a bond vote for another 25 million because heaven forbid, the world would fall apart if little johnnie didn't have a million dollars worth of 2 synthetic turf fields to play football on. Or if the little angels didn't have a 12 million dollar Olympic sized swimming pool. Or seating arrangements around that pool for over 3K spectators...because in a town of 30K we wouldn't want any highschool swimming and diving fans to go without.

Of the 25 million bond, only about 1 million went to anything to do with scholastic achievement.

So spare me the teachers Unions wanting a fair benefits package and a safe environment to work in when we can dump 14 million on the taxpayers for a swimming pool.

The luxury items are demands from the parents and students, not the teachers.

BTW, how long did it take you to realize Labor Unions represent Labor?
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Did the Wyoming teachers union oppose it? Did they threaten to strike because of it? Ill save you the research,

NOPE

Define "safe"

"Fair".??

Ever do an hourly wage on what a teacher makes? Then do an ACTUAL hourly wage with benefits added? Your just shy of $90hr here.


Im sure its been rough Buzz. You aunt touched an office in 6 months. Field work is at bare minimum.
Do you use
BuzzH said:
Take a guess who demands all the luxury items for schools?

We had the State here where I live give the county 80.3 million for a new high school...but the parents didn't think that was good enough.

So, we had a bond vote for another 25 million because heaven forbid, the world would fall apart if little johnnie didn't have a million dollars worth of 2 synthetic turf fields to play football on. Or if the little angels didn't have a 12 million dollar Olympic sized swimming pool. Or seating arrangements around that pool for over 3K spectators...because in a town of 30K we wouldn't want any highschool swimming and diving fans to go without.

Of the 25 million bond, only about 1 million went to anything to do with scholastic achievement.

So spare me the teachers Unions wanting a fair benefits package and a safe environment to work in when we can dump 14 million on the taxpayers for a swimming pool.

The luxury items are demands from the parents and students, not the teachers.

BTW, how long did it take you to realize Labor Unions represent Labor?
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You've been sitting around for going on 6 months, is that how you define "labor"? FS offices are closed.

Does the FS cover Leuko tape for your ass?

Go do research on what a teacher MAKES PER HOUR. Just in salary.

Then add in all the benefits. Report back.

Safe? You mean from a virus that kids k-12 are basically a dead end of? Be happy to listen to "safe" from every teacher that isolated. Not went on vacation, hit the home depot, flooded the nurseries, etc, etc.

Somehow the director of the CDC says "in person learning", but a teacher knows better.
Better yet, a Union rep does. Because as you prove often, union reps know everything
 
Is it possible some of us guys might be smarter if we paid teachers more? ;)

Look, I get the beef with "unions" is that they are big businesses and are generally aligned politically with the left, and funded thru dues extortion.

But that has very little to do with whether teachers have a right to adequate environmental controls or ppe, whatever that is. And individual teachers have negligible influence over local skool boards, who are really the ones calling the shots.

Don't like it, run for the school board. We have one local member who actually believes and is on record stating that masks CAUSE covid, so the bar isn't really that high. These people are who your beef is with, not my wife the science teacher.

But like I said, I don't really have a dog in the fight. I have never paid union dues, but have been accused of "bulwark tactics" in negotiations, so hardly a union patsy. But when you want to have a debate about unions, just let me know.
 
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My mom was a teacher. We talked the other day. I told her my advice would be retire.

But lets face facts. The high risk teachers, can't do the tech in online. Decisions suck. Ask an old construction guy.
 
The farther one us from the issue the less they understand it in many cases. We also need to acknowledge that while some areas don't have the political activism that others do it also effects the rationale. Given the magnitude of our electoral process it clearly has activists and party's organizing to shift the balance of power especially in border states where they want more immigrants to be able to vote to increase their advantage.

This article shows that forces are at work that necessarily don't care about the kids education but the more important political objectives and their ability to influence voter blocs. Buzzy thinks the red for ed movement is a fallacy this article shows us that's not factual and clearly outlines some of the objectives. Like I've said many times they always figure the calculus in any political action and being able to use activism to bring more money into the process is all part of the game. Being able to pay educators more money is just part of the game and since it's reliant on taxation and government funding it's at the mercy of the politicians in many regards.

It's also led to the GOP pushing for "school choice program" since in many regards the nonperforming teachers are protected by contract and parents and kids can benefit from a child being able to attend a school that has higher performance scores and as such may actually improve the child's education. Remember that little gal at the SOTU where she got to go to a different school where her aptitude would benefit from better teaching and achievement. She's an example of the school choice program benefiting a child and assisting the parent to make a better choice.

So here's a little article that clearly shows the red for ed movement has been affiliated with socialist activist's in our country. They'll use their influence where ever they can to help garner the votes.It's a simple formula really more $$$$$ equals more money for schools to pay teachers and as such influence their votes come election time. The GOP has really been remiss in neglecting this and truthfully just left it for the democrats and as we can see it's part of our issues with declining performance scores and indoctrination in some areas.

Imagine a young child being able to tell his uneducated parent's capitalism is bad and socialism is good. Given the poor education of the parents and the fact the child is helping them everyday be able to function it's a fairly easy concept to grasp in many immigrant households in the border states.

So here's the article and it clearly shows varied forces at work with a plan to shift the balance of power from red, to purple, to blue.


 
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hossblur said:
Ever do an hourly wage on what a teacher makes? Then do an ACTUAL hourly wage with benefits added? Your just shy of $90hr here.
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I have got to see the math on this. I have been teaching for 25 years and don’t even come close to this. Pleases share where you are coming up with this. A normal teaching contract is between 180-185 days. Take 180 days to error on your side and a normal 8 hour day, that is 1440 hours x $90. Total compensation package of $129,600. I know you are including benefits but I have never seen a teacher pay scale even remotely close to this. I would love to see your math.
 
Grayback said:
I have got to see the math on this. I have been teaching for 25 years and don’t even come close to this. Pleases share where you are coming up with this. A normal teaching contract is between 180-185 days. Take 180 days to error on your side and a normal 8 hour day, that is 1440 hours x $90. Total compensation package of $129,600. I know you are including benefits but I have never seen a teacher pay scale even remotely close to this. I would love to see your math.
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Avg teacher salary in Utah $55,211

Median Income in Utah $71k
 
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Utah educators on average earn 28% more than the average Utah private sector worker. This ratio is 4.7% higher than the equivalent ratio for the nation as a whole and places Utah at 26th highest, according to the AFT

Utah teacher compensation is roughly 36% on top of their salary


55211×36% ='19875

55211+19875=75086

$75086 working on avg 80 days less than the avg Utah who makes $71k on avg

$75086/194 days worked= $387 per day

387× 80days difference in normal work year = 30960

$75 k + $31 k(if teachers worked a full year at the median salary)= $106k

So if teachers worked a full year in Utah their median income would be $106,000.

So yup you are right not $129k, only $106k

Life is hard.
 
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Dude, a teachers salary is for a year. You don't divide it by the hours you think they work then multiply it by the number of hours they could work in your covid sweatshop.

If we deducted the number of hours we spent goofing around on the internet and factored that optimized wage into our theoretical available working hours, imagine how wealthy we would both be.

And the average Utah teacher makes about 50% more than our school district pays. I'm too lazy to show my work though.
 
My daughter's contract, for teaching 6/5, meaning she's teaching one more class than is required, is 44k. That is not including what the school district is paying for some small part of her insurance, or retirement package. Now factor in all of that, not close to 90K. Then divide by all the hours she spends answering emails from parents and children, reading papers, grading, posting results, etc. She works close to 60 hours per week. She ends up with about 6 weeks off between school years. For her, it's not about the money, she truly has a teacher's heart.
 
hossblur said:
Utah educators on average earn 28% more than the average Utah private sector worker. This ratio is 4.7% higher than the equivalent ratio for the nation as a whole and places Utah at 26th highest, according to the AFT

Utah teacher compensation is roughly 36% on top of their salary


55211×36% ='19875

55211+19875=75086

$75086 working on avg 80 days less than the avg Utah who makes $71k on avg

$75086/194 days worked= $387 per day

387× 80days difference in normal work year = 30960

$75 k + $31 k(if teachers worked a full year at the median salary)= $106k

So if teachers worked a full year in Utah their median income would be $106,000.

So yup you are right not $129k, only $106k

Life is hard.
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Please clarify "Utah teacher compensation is approximately 36% on top of their salary". I believe you may mean payroll taxes and benefits, which are not part of income.

Let me help you with the math for a teacher in Utah:

$55,211/1 = $55,211 per year

$55,211/12 = $4,601 per month

$55,211/52 = $1,062 per week

$55,211/2080 = $26.54 per hour

That is the gross take home pay of your average Utah teacher. Here what they do is charge the teachers for their health insurance, which is about $1000 per month for a family.

So tell me again what teacher pay has to do with covid?
 
Look. I m not anti teacher. Not by a mile. But this craps just gets old.

You can't try and say, as a teacher, you are underpaid in comparison to other 4 year degree professions by saying your yearly salary is X.

Your year, in comparison to those same 4 year degree folks is about a third less.

That is why whenever you play the game with teachers they never want to discuss compensation per hour worked, because as my very rough math showed, their hourly rate is on par with the median rate.

And that isn't bringing into account that almost no one in the private sector has retirements.

As to hours worked after contract. I hear this story. Problem is I drive past the elementary every day. That story for 90% is BS. Combine that with having 3 kids and seeing it first hand.

Last. My elementary kids go to class 4 days a week. Fridays are teacher prep days, so the kids are shuttled around and taught by aids and assistants.


See. When budgets/bids are made, the ENTIRE cost per employee per hour(or piece rate metric) is used.

For teachers in Utah its wages+36% for benefits.
 
I hear you. So let me go back to the beginning.

I believe threatening economic consequences against teachers is absurd. Most will make more on unemployment.

And lets be honest. It isn't about education, its about day care.
 
Bluehair said:
Please clarify "Utah teacher compensation is approximately 36% on top of their salary". I believe you may mean payroll taxes and benefits, which are not part of income.

Let me help you with the math for a teacher in Utah:

$55,211/1 = $55,211 per year

$55,211/12 = $4,601 per month

$55,211/52 = $1,062 per week

$55,211/2080 = $26.54 per hour

That is the gross take home pay of your average Utah teacher. Here what they do is charge the teachers for their health insurance, which is about $1000 per month for a family.

So tell me again what teacher pay has to do with covid?
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I m trying to figure out what defunding the police has to do with it
Bluehair said:
Please clarify "Utah teacher compensation is approximately 36% on top of their salary". I believe you may mean payroll taxes and benefits, which are not part of income.

Let me help you with the math for a teacher in Utah:

$55,211/1 = $55,211 per year

$55,211/12 = $4,601 per month

$55,211/52 = $1,062 per week

$55,211/2080 = $26.54 per hour

That is the gross take home pay of your average Utah teacher. Here what they do is charge the teachers for their health insurance, which is about $1000 per month for a family.

So tell me again what teacher pay has to do with covid?
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addition to defunding of the police, they are demanding single-payer, government-provided health care; full funding for housing California’s homeless; a shutdown to publicly funded, privately operated charter schools; and a new set of programs to address systemic racism. To pay for all this, they want a 1 percent wealth tax, a 3 percent income surtax on millionaires, and increased property taxes on businesses. They also want $250 million from the federal government.

What does any of that have to do with Covid?


The pay was is response to Buzz "fair" compensation line.
 
Bluehair said:
I hear you. So let me go back to the beginning.

I believe threatening economic consequences against teachers is absurd. Most will make more on unemployment.

And lets be honest. It isn't about education, its about day care.
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You do realize that telling folks how unimportant it is you teach in person, and that your job can be done via apps, isn't a ringing endorsement of the value of a teacher, right?

And lets be honest then, you make 5x what the average day care provider makes. Only day cares are open.

Of course you think economic consequences are absurd, if your a teacher. For everyone else who gets up every morning and makes the money vs covid decision we find it laughable that you've decided you shouldn't have to. You've decided that those parents who work in jobs that keep your live possible, should continue to do so to pay you to not work? Your "safety" is so much more important than theirs?

I m old school. You get paid to do a job. If you dont want to do that job, you are free to leave at any time. If you want to negotiate changing or modifying your job, then lets change or modify your compensation.


But it is comical the teachers unions PR

" Teachers are babysitters, whose job can be done by a laptop and some apps"
 
If your kids are able to learn online, great. Most aren't and we will pay the price in a generation or two if we don't figure out a way to get them in the classroom where they can be forced to learn. (Y'all really don't think your kids learned anything this spring, do you?)

And if we figure out a revolutionary way to teach online, great also. I would prefer my kids get as little input bias as possible in their education. I'm sure there are parents out there who don't appreciate my wife's political sensibilities either.

But that still doesn't address the day care problem does it?
 
Bluehair said:
If your kids are able to learn online, great. Most aren't and we will pay the price in a generation or two if we don't figure out a way to get them in the classroom where they can be forced to learn. (Y'all really don't think your kids learned anything this spring, do you?)

And if we figure out a revolutionary way to teach online, great also. I would prefer my kids get as little input bias as possible in their education. I'm sure there are parents out there who don't appreciate my wife's political sensibilities either.

But that still doesn't address the day care problem does it?
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My kids didnt. On avg they were done in about an hour.

My son struggles with reading. The IEP teacher was doing wonders for him. That ended.

I m not even close to anti teacher. And the daycare line? Thats how schools work, we send kids to them. Thats why, as Buzz rightly stated, we spend so much money making them palaces.

What I am is anti whining and anti bullshit.

You get hired to do a job. No one in their right mind is paying teachers salaries for the abortion online school we saw. Kids could learn more watching sesame street, than they did online.

My district is going 2 days a week. A-K names M-W, L-Z T-Th. Online only on Friday.

Because somehow, this virus is much more deadly on Fridays? Or its deadly to A-K kids only on T or Th?

And that's after I've seen teachers I know at Lowes, or at the Nursey, or Grocery store. Which shows they really aren't afraid of a virus, or big crowds.

And further. Lets be 100% honest. The "high risk" teachers, dont have the tech savvy to do online education. So we are paying more for inferior results?

Every year I get a not so nice letter when my boys miss a week of school for hunting, telling me about the importance of being in school daily. Guess it was BS?
 
hossblur, while I understand your viewpoint I also know Bluehairs got a valid point and has lived the dream in his household. Unless you've walked in those shoes or have a pair in the household it's hard to comprehend. His point about them being professional day care providers is accurate and all one has to do is look at how the shut downs effected things to realize the stark realities of that logic.

That' why the blue states are in such a state of panic because they choked off their tax revenues. People can't work daycare can't be found and the red ink is growing every single day it goes on. It's all a plan that needs each facet to be able to achieve the objective to support the people and run a Huge governmental machine. That employs millions many of which have been working right through the whole damn mess. A process where many are getting paid and millions upon millions of others aren't and need congress to act.

But that's a different related problem than what's really going on in the field of education today. In education today we've had changes instituted that effect the way kids think in many ways some good some bad. Some of the changes being instituted today in math effect our future in ways we've yet to define. One of the changes made to teach a child to think revolves around the concept that he's right if he can give the steps he took to arrive at his theoretical proof even though his answer is wrong.

Yes we're teaching him to think but he's not going to be able to get things to work using this type of thinking. This is an engineers / builders/ plumbers/ mechanics worst night mare no matter what product they're building we have to know things add up and equate and fit to do our jobs. So if a kid goes through life not being able to compute the right answer he's more dependent on computers than he is his own brain and the reality of the world. This is one of the changes in education that in effect is dumbing down our youth. Changing our history by using nihilism that values nothing in our past also has a negative effect on how a child's sense of worth and value and esteem play into his development and contributions to society and his own life.


Bluehairs wife if I read things right is a science teacher a very essential part of our educational system in a myriad of ways. It's her job to open the doors of imagination to fuel a child's thirst for knowledge in many areas beneficial to our countries future. Science is one of the major fulcrums in education that's necessary to heal folks, build things, grow food and innovate our future. With out science the majority of things we use today simple wouldn't exist. In fact many of the things you use in your job or daily life along with just about everyone's on this site are the product;s of science. So while her income is a component of the total picture it's just a fraction of her actual value to society. What she brings to the equation you're not going to get on the internet and it's a HUGE part in the equation. The warmth and compassion of a caring teacher is only felt by another in their presence not on a computer screen especially at younger ages when they're learning to relate to others outside their home.

I posted up that list of demands to clearly show how they're trying to exploit us and prove it was being done as a group to accentuate it's impact. Yes it could be used as a bargaining chip for more wages but the underlying fact we know and they know they're a necessary part of our society is why they use that lever when they can.

If you really stop to look at things like you and others have mentioned the kids have been all over going to stores going places around other folks daily for weeks. On vacation we saw kids everywhere and doing things just like adults buying, sitting, standing in lines, playing sports, being around society and going to work. So in effect only locked down and out of those activities the government said they couldn't do, and low and behold so were their teachers along with their kids........Hmmm

It would appear the covid is more feared in places where we're restricted not to go than those we aren't. oh and the majority of those kids had their masks on around their parents but simply didn't when with their peers......and they weren't arresting folks and turning them in.......just like others have mentioned on other threads.

The best advice i heard about the covid while I was on vacation came from a cop and he said he was told that the CDC had told their department that the covid cases were sharply going to drop off after Nov. 3rd since the temperature would drop with the prevailing winds and it would blow itself out. Since he was from a blue state I'm sure the government made sure they had the best information since they had been following the narrative. So take the cops information and the contract demands in the light in which they're intended...........

BUT HEY did you see Old Chucky shut it down Schumer suddenly thinks it's OK for schools to open...that will soften up that teachers union.. You know, I'll bet he must have talked to that same cop!!!!!
 
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Boskee said:
hossblur, while I understand your viewpoint I also know Bluehairs got a valid point and has lived the dream in his household. Unless you've walked in those shoes or have a pair in the household it's hard to comprehend. His point about them being professional day care providers is accurate and all one has to do is look at how the shut downs effected things to realize the stark realities of that logic.

That' why the blue states are in such a state of panic because they choked off their tax revenues. People can't work daycare can't be found and the red ink is growing every single day it goes on. It's all a plan that needs each facet to be able to achieve the objective to support the people and run a Huge governmental machine. That employs millions many of which have been working right through the whole damn mess. A process where many are getting paid and millions upon millions of others aren't and need congress to act.

But that's a different related problem than what's really going on in the field of education today. In education today we've had changes instituted that effect the way kids think in many ways some good some bad. Some of the changes being instituted today in math effect our future in ways we've yet to define. One of the changes made to teach a child to think revolves around the concept that he's right if he can give the steps he took to arrive at his theoretical proof even though his answer is wrong.

Yes we're teaching him to think but he's not going to be able to get things to work using this type of thinking. This is an engineers / builders/ plumbers/ mechanics worst night mare no matter what product they're building we have to know things add up and equate and fit to do our jobs. So if a kid goes through life not being able to compute the right answer he's more dependent on computers than he is his own brain and the reality of the world. This is one of the changes in education that in effect is dumbing down our youth. Changing our history by using nihilism that values nothing in our past also has a negative effect on how a child's sense of worth and value and esteem play into his development and contributions to society and has own life.


Bluehairs wife if I read things right is a science teacher a very essential part of our educational system in a myriad of ways. It's her job to open the doors of imagination to fuel a child's thirst for knowledge in many areas beneficial to our countries future. Science is one of the major fulcrums in education that's necessary to heal folks, build things, grow food and innovate our future. With out science the majority of things we use today simple wouldn't exist. In fact many of the things you use in your job or daily life along with just about everyone's on this site are the product;s of science. So while her income is a component of the total picture it's just a fraction of her actual value to society.

I posted up that list of demands to clearly show how they're trying to exploit us and prove it was being done as a group to accentuate it's impact. Yes it could be used as a bargaining chip for more wages but the underlying fact we know and they know they're a necessary part of our society is why they use that lever when they can.

If you really stop to look at things like you and others have mentioned the kids have been all over going to stores going places around other folks daily for weeks. On vacation we saw kids everywhere and doing things just like adults buying, sitting, standing in lines, playing sports, being around society and going to work. So in effect only locked down and out of those activities the government said they couldn't do, and low and behold so were their teachers along with their kids........Hmmm

It would appear the covid is more feared in places where we're restricted not to go than those we aren't. oh and the majority of those kids had their masks on around their parents but simply didn't when with their peers......and they weren't arresting folks and turning them in.......just like others have mentioned on other threads.

The best advice i heard about the covid while I was on vacation came from a cop and he said he was told that the CDC had told their department that the covid cases were sharply going to drop off after Nov. 3rd since the temperature would drop with the prevailing winds and it would blow itself out. Since he was from a blue state I'm sure the government made sure they had the best information since they had been following the narrative. So take the cops information and the contract demands in the light in which they're intended........... BUT did you see Old Chucky shut it down Schumer suddenly thinks it's OK for schools to open...that will soften up that teachers union.. You know, I'll bet he must have talked to that same cop!!!!!
Click to expand...

My mom was a teacher. I grew up in a teachers house.

My dad worked construction.

There is zero comparison in hours worked, job safety, and overall wage comparison.

And my mom still is drawings check from the state, and will until she dies.

Online doesnt work. But if that's the future, then great. Lets start selling assests. We have no need for maintainance crews, no need for aids, nurses, or administration staff.

My property tax notice came last month. There wasn't mention of no taxes until after covid. Seems EVERYONE is to continue paying for education, they just shouldn't expect education to happen.
 
We agree on far more than you realize.

Where this is headed is a privately (or state) funded charter skool solution, in which case I would look for my property tax bills to go down as well. After all, many of us that pay property taxes don't even have kids in school, right? Isn't that whats in the letters to the editor every time we have a proposed mil levy increase? (We vote on those things in CO because of something called "tabor")

But I'm pretty sure my cost to send my kid to a private institution will be MORE than my property tax bill reduction. Somebody gets to make up the difference. I'm a little concerned about where this is leading........

Incidentally, that pension your mom earned is where most of the shortfalls have been made up. Soon to be sports, then AP classes, etc etc. School won't look anything like it used to.
 
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My point above was very simple. It is just a fact that teachers do not make $90/hour like was claimed. This was an exaggeration to push a false narrative. What some may call fake news.
 
hossblur said:
Utah educators on average earn 28% more than the average Utah private sector worker. This ratio is 4.7% higher than the equivalent ratio for the nation as a whole and places Utah at 26th highest, according to the AFT

Utah teacher compensation is roughly 36% on top of their salary


55211×36% ='19875

55211+19875=75086

$75086 working on avg 80 days less than the avg Utah who makes $71k on avg

$75086/194 days worked= $387 per day

387× 80days difference in normal work year = 30960

$75 k + $31 k(if teachers worked a full year at the median salary)= $106k

So if teachers worked a full year in Utah their median income would be $106,000.

So yup you are right not $129k, only $106k

Life is hard.
Click to expand...

I've seen some numbers and "facts" twisted around, but this has to take the all-time award for fuzzy math and truth distortion. Many would call it flat out lying.

I think you should have paid closer attention in that 8th grade math class instead of thinking you were smarter than your teacher.

If bullchit was music, you'd be John Philip Sousa...
 
Last edited:
hossblur said:
My mom was a teacher. I grew up in a teachers house.

My dad worked construction.

There is zero comparison in hours worked, job safety, and overall wage comparison.

And my mom still is drawings check from the state, and will until she dies.

Online doesnt work. But if that's the future, then great. Lets start selling assests. We have no need for maintainance crews, no need for aids, nurses, or administration staff.

My property tax notice came last month. There wasn't mention of no taxes until after covid. Seems EVERYONE is to continue paying for education, they just shouldn't expect education to happen.
Click to expand...

Get off the cross, we need the wood.

Safety at work is safety at work whether its wearing a hard hat at a construction sight or computer programmers needing ergonomic keyboards and such to keep them from getting carpal tunnel.

As to your property taxes, I'd be embarrassed at Utah...dead last in spending per student. Alabama and Mississippi invest more in the future of their children than Utah...Congratulations?

www.governing.com

2016 Education Spending Per Student by State

View spending on public elementary and secondary education per pupil.
www.governing.com www.governing.com

You aren't paying as much as states that have vastly lower per capita income, yet you're high pitched whining about having to pay your share of taxes to educate your own kids is incessant.

Sure funny how you bad-mouth teachers non-stop, even prior to covid, yet now you're singing the blues when you only have to take care of your 3. Try dealing with an entire classroom full of them, day in and day out...and then claim to be "over paid".

Also, if teaching is such an easy, high paying job, jump on board the gravy train.

I agree on ONE thing you've posted on this thread, life is hard...and even harder when you're stupid.

If you don't like your lot in life, change yours rather than trying to drag everyone else down to your level.
 
BuzzH said:
Get off the cross, we need the wood.

Safety at work is safety at work whether its wearing a hard hat at a construction sight or computer programmers needing ergonomic keyboards and such to keep them from getting carpal tunnel.

As to your property taxes, I'd be embarrassed at Utah...dead last in spending per student. Alabama and Mississippi invest more in the future of their children than Utah...Congratulations?

www.governing.com

2016 Education Spending Per Student by State

View spending on public elementary and secondary education per pupil.
www.governing.com www.governing.com

You aren't paying as much as states that have vastly lower per capita income, yet you're high pitched whining about having to pay your share of taxes to educate your own kids is incessant.

Sure funny how you bad-mouth teachers non-stop, even prior to covid, yet now you're singing the blues when you only have to take care of your 3. Try dealing with an entire classroom full of them, day in and day out...and then claim to be "over paid".

Also, if teaching is such an easy, high paying job, jump on board the gravy train.

I agree on ONE thing you've posted on this thread, life is hard...and even harder when you're stupid.

If you don't like your lot in life, change yours rather than trying to drag everyone else down to your level.
Click to expand...
I am willing to compare Utahs education productivity to Wyomings any day of the week.
It is not about how much you spend, it us about the return in what you spend.
 
Polling must have opened some eyes. Schumer & Cuomo are now saying schools must open. Yesterday it was literally murdering children & teachers if you open... today it's open at all costs.
 
Homer said:
it's never enough....
Click to expand...

Just like any corporation in America. Why they farm jobs out over-seas, why they pay their employees as little as they can, why they pay as little as they can in benefits or expect employees to "cost share" insurance and retirement...to maximize Corporate profit.

Labor should do the exact same thing...
 
BuzzH said:
Just like any corporation in America. Why they farm jobs out over-seas, why they pay their employees as little as they can, why they pay as little as they can in benefits or expect employees to "cost share" insurance and retirement...to maximize Corporate profit.

Labor should do the exact same thing...
Click to expand...
the difference is that public employee unions are not negotiating with someone that had to earn the money they are fighting over....
 
It's awesome to negotiate a deal between two parties who are using the house's money. Even Biden could do it.....:)
 
Homer said:
the difference is that public employee unions are not negotiating with someone that had to earn the money they are fighting over....
Click to expand...

So what does that have to do with anything?

The Superintendent of Public Instruction is an elected position in most states. The citizens have a choice in who they elect to do their negotiating. If the Union is better at negotiating, then they deserve what they get in pay, benefits, workplace safety, etc.

You also fail to mention, that many public sector unions do not have the ability to negotiate salary, insurance benefits, etc.

But, that wouldn't follow your anti-Union script if the average person realized that.
 
Last edited:
BuzzH said:
So what does that have to do with anything?

The Superintendent of Public Instruction is an elected position in most states. The citizens have a choice in who they elect to do their negotiating. If the Union is better at negotiating, then they deserve what they get in pay, benefits, workplace safety, etc.

You also fail to mention, that many public sector unions do not have the ability to negotiate salary, insurance benefits, etc.

But, that wouldn't follow your anti-Union script if the average person realized that.
Click to expand...


As usual you interject just enough truth to sound educated, but 20 seconds of google show your not.


Utah superintends are appointed.

But carry on with your "information"
Your about on par with the TMZ
 
The teacher's unions are only concerned about their safety and the safety of the kids. One would think.

Teachers Unions Want Wealth Taxes, Charter School Bans, and Medicare for All Before Schools Can Reopen

Sadly, these nonsense demands are also popping up outside of California. More than 10 teachers unions—including those in Boston, Chicago, Milwaukee, and St. Paul—have joined up with the Democratic Socialists of America to say that "schools cannot continue in this crisis without the resources our students need and deserve."

reason.com

Teachers Unions Want Wealth Taxes, Charter School Bans, and Medicare for All Before Schools Can Reopen

What does this have to do with safely educating kids in the midst of a pandemic? Not much.
reason.com reason.com
 
Im still sitting here waiting.

I know what my hourly rate is, not takehome, cost per hour for me to do a job.

The crickets chirping from the teachers, and Buzz are pretty deafening.

The FS has been shut down 6 months, any bets on how many paychecks Buzz has missed(hint, its less than one). And his "safety " never changed. He went from fear of paper cut, to fear of azz blisters. Neither of which are deadly.
 
eelgrass said:
The teacher's unions are only concerned about their safety and the safety of the kids. One would think.

Teachers Unions Want Wealth Taxes, Charter School Bans, and Medicare for All Before Schools Can Reopen

Sadly, these nonsense demands are also popping up outside of California. More than 10 teachers unions—including those in Boston, Chicago, Milwaukee, and St. Paul—have joined up with the Democratic Socialists of America to say that "schools cannot continue in this crisis without the resources our students need and deserve."

reason.com

Teachers Unions Want Wealth Taxes, Charter School Bans, and Medicare for All Before Schools Can Reopen

What does this have to do with safely educating kids in the midst of a pandemic? Not much.
reason.com reason.com
Click to expand...


Oh come in. Buzz just told us its all about reasonable expectations of safety. Just ask him. He will tell you all about how wrong you are, how you dont understand, that its all about Covid.

As usual he is wrong, but if he includes a nugget if fact, then he feels better, and supposedly hes smarter than you.

If you close your eyes, cover both ears, you might buy in.

But then, hes sucked at the tit of the taxpayer his entire career, he has no clue what the real world looks like.
 
Hey Hoss, as a self employed business owner how does your retirement pension stack up to a union teacher's?
 
I traded about $100k of work with other subs when i built my house. I toss a tiny amount into a roth. I try to buy $20 a week in stocks. That's my retirement.


I spend 9 hours today working on my work truck. I didnt get to pass that bill on. I didn't get to pass invoicing or bidding either. You get to charge for doing a job. Customer cares only about that. They dont gives chit about my fears, worries. Nor should they. They hired me to do a job, completing thevjob means they pay me.

No insurance. No life insurance. No pension. No prep days. So expectation of safety. No sick days. No vacation days. No paid career enhancement. No comp time. No "working from home"

My quarterlies are due, EVERY QUARTER. Liability is too. Fed, state, county, city taxes didn't go away because its scary.

In short I know who my customers qre, what they want, and what the compensation is.

Buzz and teachers unions have zero clue
 
Sounds like you need a new job...nothing stopping you, except YOU.

Rather than complain about how bad you have it, and how good others have, spend that energy on a career where you're happy.

No way would I go through life as miserable as you seem...too short and isn't worth it.

Oh, and I wont apologize for making better decisions.
 
hossblur said:
As usual you interject just enough truth to sound educated, but 20 seconds of google show your not.


Utah superintends are appointed.

But carry on with your "information"
Your about on par with the TMZ
Click to expand...

For the record, you also should have paid attention to that English Teacher that you feel makes too much...your math is only slightly worse than your comprehension:

"The Superintendent of Public Instruction is an elected position in most states."

Also, appointed positions are filled via folks you elect, in case you cant google it.
 
BuzzH said:
Sounds like you need a new job...nothing stopping you, except YOU.

Rather than complain about how bad you have it, and how good others have, spend that energy on a career where you're happy.

No way would I go through life as miserable as you seem...too short and isn't worth it.

Oh, and I wont apologize for making better decisions.
Click to expand...


I m fine with my job, im not the one sitting on my azz crying about how tough life is.

Its been 6 months since FS shut down. No one noticed the difference in whether you were there or not. In fact. Most prefer you not there.


I
 
BuzzH said:
For the record, you also should have paid attention to that English Teacher that you feel makes too much...your math is only slightly worse than your comprehension:

"The Superintendent of Public Instruction is an elected position in most states."

Also, appointed positions are filled via folks you elect, in case you cant google it.
Click to expand...


Genius. Reid Newey is my supetindent. He was appointed. His contract was just renewed.

I played basketball for Coach Newey.

Keep trying. Your dumbassery keeps projecting forward.
 
Its drifted to where it always does. Only Buzz didn't take Brian on the Red Desert to hunt elk, so hes on his own here unlike other places where the forum owner saves him.

Its heartbreaking for a lifelong gov guy like Buzz to see the world continue on without his genius or wisdom.


Somehow the world didnt miss him while he sat around the last 6 months. In fact no one knew. So of course he has to make his presence known.

Its tough for a guy like him. An entire life spent blowing smoke up folks azzes, and yet no one knows, no one cares.


.

Teachers are valuable members of society. My kids miss their teachers. I am very proud of the teachers at my kids school.

The union that pulls stunts, not so much.
 
BuzzH said:
So am I...
Click to expand...
I do not mean to take you away from your great debate but you are the one that that had to bring up the liberal mantra " Utah education sucks because you do not spend as much as the liberals would like".
Personally I enjoy getting some positive return on my dollar that I spend. Not like them liberal states that for every dollar they spend they get around 20 cents positive return.
Here you go Homer!


And Homer yes it took me about 20 seconds to Google that info.

Liberal answer for all problems.
Spend, spend, spend.
 
notdonhunting said:
Personally I enjoy getting some positive return on my dollar that I spend. Not like them liberal states that for every dollar they spend they get around 20 cents positive return.
Click to expand...

Do you realize that 4 of the top 5 states in the link you provided are very liberal states that voted for Hillary?
1. Massachusetts
2. New Jersey
3. Florida
4. Washington
5. New Hampshire
The only exception is Florida which I wouldn’t consider deep red. Only 6 states in your top 15 went for trump last election.
 
Grayback said:
Do you realize that 4 of the top 5 states in the link you provided are very liberal states that voted for Hillary?
1. Massachusetts
2. New Jersey
3. Florida
4. Washington
5. New Hampshire
The only exception is Florida which I wouldn’t consider deep red. Only 6 states in your top 15 went for trump last election.
Click to expand...
You are correct, but take a look at spending. Most of these states spend more than double than what Utah spends. Just speaking for myself I think Utah is doing a pretty dam good job with the amount they spend per student.
Notice Wyomings spending 2 and then remember they ranked 16 on quality of education.

Education Spending by State - How does your state compare? - Teaching Certification

Find out where your state stacks up in terms of overall education funding per pupil. Educate yourself, and learn whether your state representatives share your
www.teaching-certification.com www.teaching-certification.com

Utah has largest percentage of kids under the age of 18 in the nation and Utah is the only state that does not have some form of gambling (Lottery) to help fund education. So again I say Utah does a pretty dam good job.
Sometimes when the pay is a little lower than the state average for other comparable professions you get teachers that want to teach they are not just there for the pay.
The teachers are the ones that make a difference.
Utah Teacher's Thanks.
 
Okay. You have a lot of valid points. I do believe it is a bit difficult to compare Wyoming to Utah in terms of spending. They face very different problems. Probably the largest difference is the rural nature of Wyoming and the transportation it requires. When an athletic event may require a 700 mile round trip, the cost builds quickly.
 
Grayback said:
Okay. You have a lot of valid points. I do believe it is a bit difficult to compare Wyoming to Utah in terms of spending. They face very different problems. Probably the largest difference is the rural nature of Wyoming and the transportation it requires. When an athletic event may require a 700 mile round trip, the cost builds quickly.
Click to expand...
Utah has the same bussing issues as Wyoming. Panguitch to Randolph round trip 688 miles bolth schools are 1A Division.
Transportation for schools is a problem but it is a necessary problem.Transpirtation is not the most wasted money that school districts waste.
Do nothing Administration is the waste in spending. How many assistants in the District offices do we need how about assistant principals and then all these assitants need secretaries. All theses positions get benefits.
In my local High School we now have an Athletic Director he is one of the teachers but he gets paid extra for being the AD, he hands out uniforms thats it!
Wasted money in most Schools and in the District offices is in the added positions because too many people are too lazy to do there own job.
 
notdonhunting said:
I do not mean to take you away from your great debate but you are the one that that had to bring up the liberal mantra " Utah education sucks because you do not spend as much as the liberals would like".
Personally I enjoy getting some positive return on my dollar that I spend. Not like them liberal states that for every dollar they spend they get around 20 cents positive return.
Here you go Homer!


And Homer yes it took me about 20 seconds to Google that info.

Liberal answer for all problems.
Spend, spend, spend.
Click to expand...
when TF did I ask for you to google anything??
 
notdonhunting said:
Utah has the same bussing issues as Wyoming. Panguitch to Randolph round trip 688 miles bolth schools are 1A Division.
Transportation for schools is a problem but it is a necessary problem.Transpirtation is not the most wasted money that school districts waste.
Do nothing Administration is the waste in spending. How many assistants in the District offices do we need how about assistant principals and then all these assitants need secretaries. All theses positions get benefits.
In my local High School we now have an Athletic Director he is one of the teachers but he gets paid extra for being the AD, he hands out uniforms thats it!
Wasted money in most Schools and in the District offices is in the added positions because too many people are too lazy to do there own job.
Click to expand...

Right, and administration is not represented by teachers unions...they're management.
 
Do Utah schools charge kids to participate in activities? I was under the impression that they did, but I truly don’t know.
 
Last edited:
Grayback said:
Do Utah schools charge kids to participate in activities? I was under the impression that they did, but I truly don’t know.
Click to expand...
Yes there is a fee. I think it is up to the District how much.



BuzzH said:
Right, and administration is not represented by teachers unions...they're management.
Click to expand...
Buzz i am not debating unions you are the one that had to bring in the argument of Utah being the lowest per student funding. I am sorry if you don't like the outcome that has been clearly proved that it does not always take large amount of money for large Goverment agencies to get things done.
Liberal way
Spend, Spend, Spend.
 
BuzzH said:
Right, and administration is not represented by teachers unions...they're management.
Click to expand...

School boards are elected. Superintendent appointed. NONE get anywhere without kissing the gold ring of the union.

Still waiting for that teachers union strike to prevent your $80million high school. They got no problem striking against teaching, for wage increases. Its almost as if they support that building?
 
Having spent 4 years sitting in high school gyms for days and hours at a time, I'm a big fan of fancy schools. ;)
 
Mom came over for dinner last night. The school subject came up.

She taught the 2 years dad did lung cancer treatment. As she pointed out, school did not close for her, our the thousands of other teachers that were immuno compromised, or were living with someone who was.

She, like anyone, could have applied for FMLA leave, but its not PAID. "Reasonable " was never a word in any contract she signed. There were days teaching, prep days, enhancement days, salary, benefits, etc. But no mention of "reasonable safety"

She pointed out that with WUHAN around, under those circumstances she would have most likely gone the FMLA route, at least towards the end.


She also pointed out that the feeling among teachers was that the only way to get rid of incompetent teachers was to promote them to Admin, and it was a common practice among principals.

As to the UEA, she said the UEA never did represent teachers. That #1 for teachers was smaller class sizes, but the union never would fight for less spending on a school to try and build more schools. Her theory was that there were union contractors, so the UEA was concerned with union brotherhood, not more classes.


Most teachers according to her paid the dues only to be protected from ambulance chasers. The DEA(the county association) she said represented teachers better, but didnt have the Warchest or clout to fight the UEA.
 
She also pointed out that the feeling among teachers was that the only way to get rid of incompetent teachers was to promote them to Admin, and it was a common practice among principals.
___________________________________________________________________________
Hossblur your Mom was right about that statement above. I have a very good friend that was a principal of a local grade school. She had three teachers who were failing to teach to the standard required and just marking time to their retirement in 3-4 years.
She started procedures to fire them after they would not improve after being counseled.
She was called in by the school district superintendent and was told to drop the case of firing them. The superintendent told her that she would have to fight the teachers union and it would take 3 years to win the fight and fire them for being incompetent and by that time they would be retired and drawing their retirement pay.
RELH
 
I tell that teachers paid in Ca make AWHOLE more money then a teacher in South Dakota.

I'm glad that I'm not coaching wrestling anymore, So I don't have think about having a season with a virus still here this fall and maybe put kids at risk.
Ca has moved their wrestling season from the fall of 2020 to the spring 2021 for now, They are hoping it will slow down by then.
 
The CDC says, at this point, the risk of death for children under the age of 18 from flu is 5 times greater than the risk of death from covid-19. So, why aren't schools opening?

 

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